A safe place for Xers to share their stories and heal.
A place to learn what it's really like in the ntcc founded by Rodger Wilson Davis;
and run by his son-in-law, Michael Craig Kekel,
the father of the one vasectomy-rule-exception kid in ntcc, Grant Davison Kekel.
Ezekiel 12:11
Say, I 'am' your sign: like as I have done, so shall it be done unto them: they shall remove 'and' go into captivity.
He Loves A House More Than God: Bonco Mansions of kekel (l) and davis (r)
"He loves a house more than God:" *Bonco* Mansions of kekel (l) and davis (r). Meanwhile, on the mission field: ntcc Missionaries to the Philippines "Rev. and Sis. Mackert ... found a place, 9 feet by 14 feet [9'x14'] and one bathroom. It is on the 6th floor and there is no elevator. The last place they had stayed, they had to share a common bathroom with the other tenants! Yikes! This place has their very own private bathroom, although the Rev. shared there is no seat on the throne, and no way to attach one…." from The Devonshire Files Sunday, May 28, 2006 Visit from the Mackerts (5/06). ** Should you know where the money ($$$$$) goes? **
Jesus In The Temple
Matt 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,
Matt 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Gal. 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us.
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God does know what we go through. He suffered for us.
Betrayed. Hurt by those who say they love you. Broken. Begin Again:
Tell Your Heart to Beat Again by Danny Gokeyon YouTube
... let God be true, but every man a liar;
Romans 3:4 (partial)
On this day commemorating the Lord's crucifixion, let's remember His sacrifice and look at His resurrection and the great peace He purchased for us. It is finished!
An Anonymous comment was left on a previous thread entitled Return to Normalcy Toolkit:
Anonymous said:
"Don, that must be some of the best advice post-NTCC that I've ever read. De-programming is a slow process and we were taught to act and react in certain ways. Hopefully over time we can become less critical and more loving and more like Christ."
Our response turned into a comment long enough to be a thread so we will make it a new thread.
Don and Ange said:
"I'm not an expert by any stretch, but for me the de-programming took place during when I left the ntcc and God. For 14 years I learned that the best way to de-program was to be free from it all. I learned the hard way; but much of it worked. I did many of the things on this list except for that which pertained to serving God.
When I did come back to God, there was a new struggle. The first step in this process was to realize that God still loved me. He wasn't sitting up in heaven with lightning bolts waiting to strike me down. God wanted me back. Then I had to look at that huge portion of my life spent in the ntcc and try to sort out the good from the bad. Recognizing that the ntcc was a cult was easy for me at this point. They were not interested in getting me back; God was. They were not interested in loving me any more; God was. If you don't believe this, try crawling back to them and see how accepting and forgiving they are. Oh sure, you'll get the same old love-bombing they used to 'win' you into ntcc; but they will never really trust you. Like davis often says, "I forgive; but I don't forget!" Well, I've got news for him: God was ready to forgive me immediately; and God forgets!!
What's really cool about God is that He loves us and deals with us on a personal level. I never dreamed that God would ever care about me again. I was programmed to believe that there would never be any hope for me. People that leave the ntcc believe this also. It seems so hopeless; but when you feel the love of God in your life again it erases all the erroneous teachings, all the poor examples of ntcc style Christianity that make people so critical of others. We were De-eXisted by the ntcc because we were no longer of use to them. They practice the opposite of everything that God is all about.
Instead of loving people they see them for what value those people can be to ntcc's program. Instead of comforting folks they instill fear in them. Instead of helping people they use them for stepping stones to become more like the greedy leaders they serve. They don't practice Christian values. They call themselves the Children of God and everyone else is a sinner. Their only interest in the sinner is to convert them into individual stacks of money. This is what they are after. Rwd doesn't want to help anyone, in fact every time I've sought spiritual advise from him he'd just pass the buck and say "Pray."
You can pray and pray and pray, as I did; but if you don't have the love and support of the leaders that demand respect and loyalty from you, you find yourself on a one-way dead end road. There is no where to go. You pray; but they won't change.
It's like going to the SPCA and rescuing a dog. The dog loves you because his previous conditions were deplorable. You pet the dog and feed him and in turn that dog is grateful that he is no longer living in a disease infested prison waiting to be euthanized. You allow the dog to live in the house and show it attention every day; and that dog in turn loves you unconditionally. It follows you around. It waits for you to come home from work. It greets you in the morning when you wake up. The dog loves you and asks for nothing in return but to be part of your life.
At some point the dog has an accident or does something that makes you mad.
A cruel person would chain the dog to a dog house and feed and water it, and tell everyone, "This is my dog". The dog of course doesn't understand. He used to be part of your life, now he sees you for five minutes a day and spends his life pacing back and forth. Many times he runs out of water and doesn't get enough food. He has ticks and mosquito bites and still all he really wants is love.
Some dog owners will take that same dog for a ride. The dog thinks, this is great he's letting me out of my prison; he loves me again; but something is wrong. There is no love. They'll drive for an hour and drop the dog off on the side of the road and speed off. The dog waits, and waits. The dog can't understand what happened to the love He once knew. How could they do this? The dog then wanders around lost not knowing where his next meal is going to come from, not knowing if he'll ever be loved again. The dog doesn't have survival skills because he was taught to depend on those he loved for everything. Perhaps something horrible will befall him like being torn apart by a wild animal or getting hit by a car.
Rejected and Abused
I was like this dog. I loved the ntcc and the people that were in it. I was taught to trust them and depend on them. But I also loved God. When these people left me on the side of the road I wandered around and had no peace in my heart. I wondered over and over how they could be so cold and cruel. I didn't blame them or God; but I equated their love for God's love. I thought if they don't love me anymore than neither does God. This was my mistake; and this is what caused me so many years of grief.
God is Love; the ntcc leadership is not. They teach you not to love and not to forgive. They laugh at grace and mercy and tout individual responsibility and works. The ntcc does not try to reconcile folks unless it profits ntcc. The only thing that we are trying to get across to folks in the ntcc is that God loves you and doesn't want you to waste anymore of your life. God doesn't want you to become like those you honor and trust. God want's you to become more like Him. He wants you to have love and grace and mercy and peace in your life.
The Dog may never trust a human again and may never find the love he once knew. We are not dogs but we were created with a soul that was made to love God. We were loved and always will be loved by God. The ntcc has failed. As an organization they have left their first love and they no longer have any compassion, mercy or love. If they did, they would stand up against the establishment and do what is right. God is walking to and fro among them looking for someone that will stand for what is right. They can ignore us on the outside and say we are just bitter; but if a significant number on the inside that would unite and stand for what they once knew to be right, they could make a huge difference. To the ntcc you will become as we are: "The Unforgiven".
But to God, we are Precious, a peculiar people, a Holy Priesthood, washed in His blood; because God so loved us that He gave His only begotten Son...
While missionaries with NTCC Debbie and Matt Reed were given some Puka Shell necklaces. When NTCC used their picture in their rag, The Trumpet, the NTCC removed the necklaces. That's lame -- and hypocritical. If Davis and others could wear Diamond Pinky Rings like pimps, and Ashmore could wear flashy cufflinks, what's the problem with some simple necklaces?
FLOWER CHILDREN? MATT and DEBBIE REED?
Matt and Deb Reed have fired up their blog again and they can be found blogging at:
It's great to have another voice of reason to testify of the blessings of God that can be experienced outside of the ntcc. Many people struggle with the transition of leaving the ntcc; and it's expected that making the life changing step to leave the ntcc is never an easy decision. The fact that the Reeds made this transition and are sharing their experiences is a testimony: There is salvation outside of the ntcc! Not only do they testify that there is life beyond the ntcc; but they also speak of the increase of God's blessings upon their lives; which seems to be the theme among many X-ers. When we let go of the legalism and control policies we find freedom and peace in our hearts, greater finances, and improvement in every area of our lives.
The Reed's blog is a great place to visit and has their personality written all over it; as you can see from the recent picture they posted: "It's All About The Love". More of their heart is revealed in a moving post titled "We Will Never Forget" dedicated to a very good man named SSgt. Daniel Morris. He gave his life for the freedom and prosperity that we enjoy in this great country we live in. We never knew the man; but we offer our condolences to the ones he loved and to those that loved him as a son that they never had [read more here]. We also share the same scripture inscribed on SSgt. Daniel Morris' Memorial:
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. (John 15:13) here
Jesus called his disciples and followers "friends". I can say, being with the Reeds at a time when I needed a change of pace, that they were and always will be friends! The ntcc did not treat them or any of their disciples as friends; but they controlled us for reasons of power and financial gain. This is and was unthinkable to us. We had real salvation and experienced a reality in God; but in our innocence we were very easy to influence and manipulate. The ntcc used us, taking advantage of our innocence, manipulating us for the financial gain of a select few, "that bunch" in Graham, Washington. We thank God for everyone that escapes from the ntcc and especially those that maintain their walk with God despite ntcc abuse!
Vote On This Post By Clicking On The Lettered Boxes Below:
A) Sounds Like A True Description Of ntcc.
B) ntcc Sounds Like A Cult.
C) I Read This Post.
D) Glad for the Reeds to be out of ntcc!
E) You can serve God outside of ntcc!
F) I'm afraid to get caught commenting on this blog!
G) Glad To Be Out of ntcc!
H) Grateful for our military!
I) I'm Thinking Of Leaving ntcc
J) What davis did as Matt described in read more here was cruel!
"They say how grateful they are to be at WOFF, how grateful they are that Jane and Sam laid down their life and have done the work God called them to do."
Reading through, we realized that all we had to do was substitute ntcc in for WOFF and rodger w davis / michael c kekel in for Jane Whaley and the article became a "spot on" description of ntcc:
"They say how grateful they are to be at [ntcc], how grateful they are that [davis] and [kekel] laid down their life and have done the work God called them to do."
And here is a second brief but insightful sample from The Author:
"Yes, like bookends, some folks may put a phrase like; Jesus showed me on one end and a thank you, Jesus on the other. But, the center of worship at WOFF is undeniably – Jane."
Which transposes thus:
"Yes, like bookends, some folks may put a phrase like; [The Holy Ghost] showed me on one end and a thank you, [Holy Ghost] on the other. But, the center of worship at [ntcc] is undeniably – [davis and kekel]."
At first it seems amazing to see the same methods used by the leader of a different abusive group resulting in the same praise and idolatrous worship of that leader; but in retrospect it only makes sense. Con-men and -women use whatever techniques bring them the best result$, so no wonder if the methodology is the same!
Another important point brought out in The Author's discourse was this: "Why?"
People who have not been through the cult experience often ask this vital question:
"The answer, we feel, ultimately revolves around True Love demonstrated by the members and abusive, quantified (if you love me, then you will ______) demonstrated by the cult leaders.
As for the “Why did we stay and do what we did?” question, the answer is simple:
LOVE
We love(d) God and thought loving them was equal to serving God. They used our love against us for their own self-profiting reasons. It is a difficult reality to face having been used; but once we accept this fact it helps clear things up with respect to motives (theirs and ours) and actions (theirs and ours). Like any other user, a love-thief mimics the phraseology of the victims stating: “I love you.” knowing the victims will interpret that statement as meaning what it does when they say “I love YOU.”–unconditional love. But truly the love-thief only means “I love what you DO for me.” The true test of the love-thief’s statement comes when you stop performing to their standards or stop supplying their “fix”. Typically the love-thief will upbraid, ridicule, or ostracize you, proving they did not in fact “love” YOU; they only loved what you DID for them..."
This reminded us of an e-mail to another X-er where we probed further:
WE FELL FOR IT BECAUSE SO MUCH OF WHAT THEY TAUGHT WAS TRUE; BUT JUST AS sATAN ONLY CHANGED OR ADDED ONE WORD TO THE COMMANDMENT "THOU SHALT NOT SURELY DIE." THEY CHANGED AND ADDED TO THE SCRIPTURE TO TWIST IT FOR THEIR SELFISH AGENDAS.
IT HURT(S) SO BADLY BECAUSE WE LOVE(D) THEM.
AND JUST AS IN ALL OTHER ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIPS,
THE ABUSER BLAMES THE VICTIM:
"LOOK WHAT YOU MADE ME DO!!!"
Or, "You people make the rules." comes to mind, as often as we in ntcc have heard r w davis shout that at us.
--THAT'S WHY NOTHING WE DID WAS EVER GOOD ENOUGH FOR THEM. AND WHY THE RULES ALWAYS HAD TO CHANGE: "YOU PEOPLE MAKE THE RULES"--rodger w. davis. uhn-huh, sure, whatever...
THE TRAGIC FACT IS THEY SOLD OUT CHRIST FOR FILTHY LUCRE AND NOW HAVE TO WRESTLE WITH THE CONSEQUENCES AS THEY USED TO WREST THE SCRIPTURES FOR THEIR "PRIVATE BENEFIT".
THEY WILL NEVER BE HAPPY AND CAN THEREFORE NEVER BE SATISFIED WITH THEMSELVES AND THEREFORE NEVER SATISFIED WITH OTHERS.
THIS IS POWERFUL STUFF.
THOUGH OBVIOUS AND BASIC WHEN SEEN FROM AN OBJECTIVE STANDPOINT, IT IS 'QUITE SOMETHING ELSE WHEN YOU ARE THERE'--PARAPHRASING THE OLD LADY SURVIVOR IN TITANIC AS SHE ANSWERS THE ALL-TOO-EAGER QUESTIONS OF THOSE WHO FOUND THE WRECKAGE. THEY ARE ZEALOUS, BUT HAVE FORGOTTEN THE TRAGEDY, THE REALITY OF THE ETERNAL LOSS OF SOULS.... SHE, HOWEVER, WHO WAS THERE, AND YOUNG AND VIBRANT AND IN LOVE, CAN NEVER FORGET WHAT WAS REALLY LOST. LIFE. LOVE. DREAMS. GOALS. SOULS.
ALL OF THIS ADDRESSES THE VICTIM'S SIDE OF THAT FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION: WHY?--TRUTH AND LOVE. THE ABUSERS ANSWER TO WHY: GREED. GREED FOR POWER. GREED FOR MONEY. GREED FOR CONTROL. sATANISM AT ITS CORE: I WILL ASCEND... I WILL BE GOD. I. I. I...[Isa 14:12-15, Luke 10:18]
THE REST OF THAT THOUGHT ON THE ABUSER/VICTIM RELATIONSHIP IS THIS:
THE MIND-NUMBING, BONE-CHILLING, KNIFE-TO-THE-HEART-AND-TWIST-TRUTH IS:
WE, THE VICTIMS, ARE STILL WAITING FOR WHAT WILL NEVER COME:
APOLOGY and APPROVAL.
THE ABUSERS WILL NEVER ADMIT TO THE ABUSIVE NATURE OF THEIR ACTIONS.
THE ABUSERS WILL NEVER APPROVE OF THEIR VICTIMS. NEVER. (FOR REASONS PREVIOUSLY SHARED.) YOU MUST FIRST LOVE YOURSELF IN ORDER TO LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOUR.
GOD PUTS A NATURAL DESIRE IN PEOPLE TO SEEK ONE ANOTHER'S APPROVAL. THAT'S WHY THE LORD LOOKED AND HAD COMPASSION ON THE PEOPLE WHEN HE SAW THEM AS SHEEP WITH NO SHEPHERD. SHEEP, BY THE NATURAL DESIGN OF GOD, NEED TO BE WITH OTHER SHEEP; AND THEY NEED A SHEPHERD. WITHOUT THAT THEY ARE QUITE LITERALLY LOST.
sATAN, AS THE OPPOSER, TAKES AND TWISTS AND ABUSES NATURAL APPETITES TO FIT HIS AGENDA . hE USES "MINISTERS OF LIGHT", SO CALLED, TO AFFECT HIS WILL. NO MARVEL... RIGHT? BUT IT GETS BACK TO 'OBJECTIVITY'-- VS.-- 'YOU CAN'T SEE THE FOREST THROUGH THE TREES.'
THINK WE ARE GOING TO GO FOR A WALK AND ENJOY IT OUT IN THE SUNSHINE; SO WE CAN HEAR THE WHISPER OF GOD IN THE BREEZE SAYING, 'I LOVE YOU. NO MATTER WHAT MEN DO. I'M HERE. YOU CAN TRUST ME.' AND THAT, FOR OUR PART, IS WHAT WE ARE GOING TO DO. WE ARE GOING TO PRESS INTO HIS EMBRACE, LEAN ON HIS CHEST, AND KNOW HE IS REAL. HIS LOVE NEVER FAILS; AND TRULY,
GOD'S LOVE IS UNCONDITIONAL!
Vote Anonymously On This Post By Clicking On The Lettered Boxes Below:
A) Sounds Like A True Description Of ntcc.
B) ntcc Sounds Like A Cult.
C) I Read This Post.
D) Abusers and Manipulators say things like "If you really love God, you will do ___________for the "man of Gawd"...."
E) ntcc often requires members to do things that have no biblical basis, like cleaning the mansions of Board Members, washing B.M.s luxury cars and extremely expensive motor homes, doing the B.M.s country-club-style-lawns, shining the B.M.s hand-sewn-solid leather expensive shoes, etc. taking advantage of the members' love of the Lord for the B.M.s "private benefit".
F) Create Your Own By Leaving A Comment: Example:
"F" I'm afraid to be caught commenting on this blog.
G) Glad To Be Out of ntcc.
H) Create Your Own By Leaving A Comment: Example:
"H" ntcc manipulates members by playing on their love of God and saying manipulative phrases over and over such as: "If you really love God, you want to ble$$ the man of Gawd."
Of all the attributes of God there are none that surpass love. Love is an emotion that I have been experiencing in large quantities lately most of which I would classify as Agape love which is the love of God. The love that my new wife and I share was placed in our hearts by God; and although the NTCC likes to teach that love between man and wife is mostly carnal, I disagree. When we were separated by NTCC I felt great loss; and my walk with God suffered. When God brought us back together, I realized that God's Love was greater than all commandments. God's love trumps all of the do's and don'ts that the NTCC preaches but doesn't always practice. Does God still have requirements? Yes.
When Jesus walked the earth the focus wasn't on the do's and the don'ts but on Glorifying His Father in heaven, by helping the afflicted. The majority of His wrath was directed against the religious leaders of the time who went around preaching the do's and the don'ts. The rest of what Jesus did was surrounded by Love and were works of faith like healing the sick, raising the dead and feeding the multitudes, etc...
Jesus said, "If I be lifted up, I will draw all men to me". He didn't say if we invite 1000 people out to church every week, or wear white shirts and wing tips all the time, or pay our tithe and give in offerings, or live a holiness lifestyle, or rest on Sunday, or any other works doctrine that you preach. While there is a place for these things, they are not supposed to be the focus of the church.
NTCC has their priorities mixed up. There are so many true stories of missionaries and pastors of the NTCC that have struggled and suffered and done without and sacrificed to the point of not eating right and not being able to provide basic food, shelter and clothing for their families while the fat cats in Washington are living large and have every comfort and amenity imaginable. Is this love?
ntcc founder r w davis and 2nd wife verna
I talked to others from NTCC on the phone and through e-mail correspondence. Many say that speaking out against the NTCC is nonproductive and while they are willing to speak against the NTCC over the phone or in private, they seem very hesitant about getting involved with reading this blog or others like it. My stand is a whole lot different. NTCC is a Cult. They strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. They require way more out of their members then they themselves are willing to give. Hypocrisy does not get any more hypocritical than this.
These are the ones that Jesus preached against. The damage that they are causing in people's hearts and lives is unbelievable. There are many people in and out of NTCC that feel hopelessly lost and that there is no way out. They have been used, lied to, preached at, emotionally and spiritually abused, separated from loved ones including spouses and children. If a wife disagrees with the NTCC they are scolded publicly and scorned by the so called "man of God" and eventually ran off while the husband is praised for surviving the ordeal. But don't let your guard down because even though you have sacrificed your family, your turn to be kicked to the curb is coming. When you have been totally used up and can't pray or feel God any more and are at your lowest point in life, you will also be discarded. You have outlived your usefulness.
As for me and my house, we will preach love. It's too late for NTCC to tell me that they are the only true church; that they preach the only true Gospel; that any time you say anything against them you are blaspheming God's Church. I got set free after years of condemnation experienced from leaving the cult. God redeemed me and delivered me from all of the things that NTCC used to say you can and cannot do; but what is greater is that God placed his love in my heart; and it is a love that surpasses all understanding and transcends all outward works.
While my words may sound harsh, it is necessary because people are suffering needlessly in the NTCC. We are now in the information age; and even though this is considered the "sinnernet", somebody might see this and wake up. I'm not making fun of anyone; because I was once asleep and oblivious to the deception of NTCC. If you would take a close, close look at what they are doing, you would see something isn't right. I felt it while I was a member but refused to look at it. There IS life after NTCC. God has not forsaken you. Let God's love speak louder than man's preaching.
Don
Vote Anonymously On This Post By Clicking On The Lettered Boxes Below:
A) Sounds Like A True Description of ntcc
B) ntcc Sounds Like A Cult
C) I Read It
D) ntcc uses people
E) ntcc throws people away
F) Create Your Own By Leaving A Comment: Example: "F" I'm afraid to get caught commenting on this blog.
G) Glad To Be Out of ntcc
H) Create Your Own: Example: "H" God's LOVE ROCKS!
