eX-members' of ntcc Blogspot

A safe place for Xers to share their stories and heal.

A place to learn what it's really like in the ntcc founded by Rodger Wilson Davis;
and run by his son-in-law, Michael Craig Kekel,
the father of the one vasectomy-rule-exception kid in ntcc, Grant Davison Kekel.

He Loves A House More Than God: Bonco Mansions of kekel (l) and davis (r)

He Loves A House More Than God:  Bonco Mansions of kekel (l) and davis (r)
"He loves a house more than God:" *Bonco* Mansions of kekel (l) and davis (r). Meanwhile, on the mission field: ntcc Missionaries to the Philippines "Rev. and Sis. Mackert ... found a place, 9 feet by 14 feet [9'x14'] and one bathroom. It is on the 6th floor and there is no elevator. The last place they had stayed, they had to share a common bathroom with the other tenants! Yikes! This place has their very own private bathroom, although the Rev. shared there is no seat on the throne, and no way to attach one…." from The Devonshire Files Sunday, May 28, 2006 Visit from the Mackerts (5/06). ** Should you know where the money ($$$$$) goes? **

Jesus In The Temple

Matt 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, Matt 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Gal. 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Skip To Blue Letter Bible Search Tool

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Wednesday, February 25, 2015

Ralph St. Clair Dies with Little Fanfare (Allegedly)

ntcc's future District Overseer and former Tillicum Servicemen's Home Director, Ralph St. Clair allegedly "passes on" leaving his wife Joan to fend for herself, no thanks to the ntcc leaders like Mike Kekel.
ntcc's future District Overseer and former Tillicum Servicemen's Home Director, Ralph St. Clair allegedly "passes on" leaving his wife Joan to fend for herself, no thanks to the ntcc leaders like Mike Kekel.  And don't blame Julie or expect her or John St. Clair to pick up the tab. And don't be duped into picking up the tab for kekel.  If he is your leader, follow his example and do nothing.  All will be explained below in this blog post.
Feb. 12, 1950 ~ Feb. 21, 2015

We just learned through Julie that her so-called 'father', Ralph St. Clair died on February 21, 2015 at 12:45 AM. He reportedly had a stroke while gardening with and for his wife, Joan, and died a few days later after suffering in a V.A. hospital.  Ralph St. Clair was also known as Ralph SINclair, the nickname he was given by R.W. Davis - the allegedly 'highly educated' founder of the ntcc.  The death of Davis garnered a funeral ceremony called a "Celebration of Life" and "Promotion" by his daughter, Tanya Maxamillia Reynolds Davis Kekel and others. But that is not the case with Ralph St. Clair. We learned his wife Joan is trying to collect money for a cremation - the cheapest form of disposing of remains.  We were also told there would be no funeral, since Joan could not afford one. Oddly, we could not find any evidence that Ralph died.  Julie told us she was notified by police and also discussed Ralph's death with her Grandmother on her mother's side.  She said Joan was trying to get money from that wealthy relative.  We also received verification from another source, that we cannot reveal, that Ralph St. Clair had passed away.  Most people that die, in the ntcc, or anywhere, have an obituary.  There is usually some type of paper trail which might include a funeral service notice from a funeral home, something in the local newspaper, a Coroner's report or even the Hospital's acknowledgement that the person actually died, but after calling the county coroner's office in Pierce and King Counties, the V.A. hospital and the Washington Department of Health Decedent Division, we found nothing.  None of those agencies could confirm St. Clair's death.  That is odd.  The King County Coroner's Office was helpful in educating us on the process that takes place when someone dies.  It is possible for someone to pass away and not leave any paper trail, but that should not be the case when someone dies in a hospital.  In a hospital the attending physician is required to complete a death certificate with time of death and the physician's signature.  In the state of Washington, a death certificate can be ordered for $31.50; but it might take weeks to obtain.  Because we have no evidence of his death, and the V.A. Hospital told us he did not die in any of their hospitals, we have to use the word 'allegedly', just in case this turns out to be some sort of a scam.

With three state cases pending against him, ntcc's Ralph St. Clair won't need to worry about jail time since he allegedly "passed on", much like R.W. Davis supposedly did last March.
With three state cases pending against him (according to Julie), ntcc's Ralph St. Clair won't need to worry since he allegedly "passed on", much like R. W. Davis supposedly did last March.

First of all, we believe that Julie was told the things she shared with us surrounding Ralph's passing on; and we believe our other source who said that Ralph had passed on. But having said that, there are many unanswered questions concerning this topic.  The testimony on this blog of Julie having been repeatedly beaten and raped by her father Ralph, and how that Joan and Ralph St. Clair allegedly orchestrated other sexually perverted individuals to have sex with her while she was a child, was very damaging to the ntcc, its founder R.W. Davis, Kekel, Ashmore and others who, allegedly, were allowed to violate Julie when she was just a child.  In fact, Julie says, three state cases were pending against Ralph St. Clair regarding abuse.   Perhaps those cases and the other pressure on ntcc influenced this situation with St. Clair's alleged death.  Reportedly Kekel was going to make Ralph St. Clair a District Overseer once those three pending court cases were over.  We learned of this from Julie who told us "My grandma asked kekel why they didn't have higher position since joan and ralph had been around as long as him" and "Once the cases were over kekel was going to make him a district overseer".  We asked if Julie was joking, but she said "Nope that was the plan".  Now that is bizarre -- to (plan to) make a man accused of raping his daughter the District Overseer.

ntcc's Tanya Maxamillia Reynolds Davis Kekel and her deceased 'dad' Rodger Wilson Davis.  When Davis allegedly died, Tanya tweeted about it saying, "My darling daddy is now safe in the arms of Jesus free, strong and whole."
Tanya Maxamillia Reynolds Davis Kekel and her deceased 'dad' Rodger Wilson Davis.  When Davis allegedly died, Tanya Tweeted about it saying, "My darling daddy is now safe in the arms of Jesus free, strong and whole."  That's odd. Why did she say "free"?  Was he in danger of going to prison?  The ntcc made a big deal about holding a "Celebration of Life" service for Davis.  But that's not the case for Ralph St. Clair. Hmmn. That's odd indeed.

But despite Kekel's alleged nod of approval and plans to promote St. Clair to District Overseer, poor ole Ralph didn't deserve a "Celebration of Life" or even a single tweet from the Twittershpere or any type of remembrance or official mention on the ntcc blogs or websites?  Wow and wow. Remember, after all, Ralph did, allegedly, provide quite a service to the ntcc higher ups.  You would think someone would mention him on Facebook or Twitter as was the case for Davis, Ramirez, Hasty and others that have passed away.   As for Joan's Facebook page, she hasn't mentioned anything, nor has anyone offered condolences.  Her Facebook page hasn't got any likes or comments since before Julie's testimony of being abused was published.  People used to like her posts and many commented, but after the dark truth was made public, people didn't seem to want anything to do with her.  Apparently, neither does Kekel want anything to do with her.  According to what Julie's grandmother told her, the ntcc told Joan she had until Tuesday to get out of the Tillicum house.  Since Ralph allegedly died on Feb. 21st at 12:45 in the morning, that left only three days for Joan to put it together. (as the ntcc likes to say.  Julie shared: "she [Joan] must attend graham church and she must pay move in cost [deposit] and rent and she can move in a graham house".  Wow, what  a privilege... NOT.  For an organization whose CEO owns  a quarter of a million dollar car that sits in a garage most of the time, and an organization that calls itself a Christian church, the ntcc is showing zero Christian charity.  Julie also said "Kekel thinks I should use the money I get to give to her to pay to live in graham since I work in help org".  But Joan St. Clair claims she has no daughter. Why should she pay?  Also, since the ntcc teaches that anyone who leaves ntcc is leaving God, they certainly don't think of the St. Clair's children, Julie and John, as "believing" Christians.  So that means NTCC should not expect them to care for the widow as it is written in the bible [read more].  Instead, the church should step up.  But we won't see that from the ntcc; because, as Julie told us, "Kekel told joan that money is only for pastors and board members so she can go get a job".  Kekel didn't even want to do a free funeral for St. Clair; which is odd since he allegedly planned on promoting him to District Overseer.  But Julie said, "No funeral joan can't afford it she was collecting money to cremate." I thought it was ironic to find this post on Joan St. Clair's Facebook page:  "Yo Mama is so fat when she got cremated all the flights in Europe got canceled!"  Very ironic.  So listen, folks. Hold onto your wallets.  Kekel is not willing to part with even one thin dime or any of his time to help Joan St. Clair, and since he is your leader, neither should you.

Playing Church - Caution NTCC Church Meeting
 - May "Trigger" or Bring Up BAD Memories -
 Length:  4 Seconds YouTube Vid
Above Video:  NTCC Minister Ralph St. Clair (hiding behind a NTCC Pulpit) is accused of raping his daughter; but before the three pending cases can go to court, Ralph, allegedly "passes on".  Is it judgment?  Is it a farce? Why is ntcc so quiet about his "passing on"?  Why is ntcc refusing to help his alleged widow, Joan St. Clair?
What is really going on in your ntcc?

It's alarming that people recognize the truth but they continue to follow Kekel.  We have also recently heard rumors that the Jones (the Overseer and his wife) are no longer in the organization.  I know that Jeff  told me that he had seen Jone's and Hunt's wives together on more than one occasion recently in the Ft. Benning Commissary. Perhaps the ntcc is falling apart, but as long as they still have people that are willing to follow them without asking questions, they will continue to destroy lives.  At any rate, don't expect any transparency from the ntcc.  Transparency and honesty go hand in hand.  If you are in the ntcc and find yourself bewildered at having to learn this on an X-er blog, don't blame us or call us the devil. There is much more perversion in your ntcc than there is in the majority of the lives of the people who have left.  The ntcc leaders just like to hide their sins behind the eyewash of whatever vestige of  'holiness' still remains.


87 comments:

Anonymous said...

Wow, good narrative. You clearly have several sources.

Wonder what she thinks of the church now.

How could a minister of his stature not have saved anything? I'm wondering if she is well off and just isn't saying so.

Kekel is a punk. I paid about 12000 in tithes to that church thinking I was doing the right thing so I wouldn't go to hell. That's 12000 I could have invested!

I'm pissed.

Don and Ange said...

Chief has fired up his blog and is dishing out common sense as usual.

http://truestoriesoflifeinthentcc.blogspot.com/2015/02/being-too-proud-or-simply-not-having.html

Anonymous said...

Just the other day, i was reading their by-laws and came across the part where they would build nursing homes for their aging ministers...where are they? you would think that at least one would have been built by now. And i can understand charging for someone to stay there, but hopefully it would be inexpensive since the reason why most people don't have anything is because they have given it all to the org.

Anonymous said...

what is the need of being secretive about someone dying? it makes them look like they are hiding something.

Anonymous said...

I am in NTCC and was shocked to read on here that one of the pastors had died. I did call a few others that are in the Washington area that did confirm he had died but no one could answer why no one else was told.

Anonymous said...

I know the St. Clairs and though I have always thought them to be a little strange; I am surprised that others have told me, Mrs. St.Clair doesn't seem to be in mourning at all over her husband's death.

Anonymous said...

Wait until Joan strikes a deal with a DA some where!

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said:

"Kekel is a punk. I paid about 12000 in tithes to that church thinking I was doing the right thing so I wouldn't go to hell. That's 12000 I could have invested!"

DNA said:

When you look back on it all that's why many of us feel the same way. Some of us have paid them tithes (and offerings) to the toon of six figures and more over long periods of time.

I was in the Borg from the time I was 18 until I was 32. Most people use those years to invest in the future. All of my peers in the Army (E-6's and E-7's) all had houses that they bought, new cars, and money in the bank as they worked towards saving for retirement. My money went towards Davis and Kekel's retirements.

But we are not allowed to speak out against these money grubbing scoundrels. If we say anything against them all the sudden we are just bitter and angry God haters. Wake up you naive and gullible ntcc Christian want-to-be's.

Don and Ange said...

Has anyone else found it odd that Ralph and Joan were out Gardening in February? What grows up in NW Washington in February? This whole thing seems off. So you are out gardening in February and you have a stroke, Joan calls 911 and the ambulance comes and takes him to the VA hospital where he suffers for a few days and dies. There is no paper trail, nobody seems to know any details, the Coroner for Pierce County has no knowledge of this, the VA hospital in Washington has no record of Ralph St. Clair dying on that day or any day this year, and there are no obituary or funeral notices. Google searches bring up zilch. Could Ralph still be alive? Is there anyone out there on the ntcc side of things clear any of this up with details? Life has to get pretty bad to fake your own funeral, if that's what happened. Why is everything so secretive in the ntcc?

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said...
what is the need of being secretive about someone dying? it makes them look like they are hiding something.

DNA said...
Amen!

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said...
I am in NTCC and was shocked to read on here that one of the pastors had died. I did call a few others that are in the Washington area that did confirm he had died but no one could answer why no one else was told.

DNA said...
No Celebration of Life for poor old Ralph. I guess when you get outed for raping your own daughter, it brings quite a bit of disgrace on you and the others you allowed to violate her. If Ralph is dead or has 'disappeared', the burden of having someone with that kind of knowledge running around alive could be quite a relief to those on the ntcc pedophile list.

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said...
I know the St. Clairs and though I have always thought them to be a little strange; I am surprised that others have told me, Mrs. St.Clair doesn't seem to be in mourning at all over her husband's death.

DNA said:

Such are described Eph 4:19 as "being past feeling"....

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said...
Wait until Joan strikes a deal with a DA some where!

DNA said...
She needs to strike a deal with her rich Mother for some quick survival cash. Ralph and Joan supposedly owned a house in Mississippi and rented it out. I wonder if Ralph named the ntcc as the beneficiary of his will. That wouldn't be to good for Joan, but it would surprise me. Some people give everything in life and after death to the borg. Ask Kekel about the mansion that was deeded to Davis, who in turn re-deeded it to his Grandson. See how loving and understanding kekel is when you enquire of such things. All the rent money went to the organization. I'm sure it was some kind of hush money that allowed Ralph to keep his position of stature and continue his sick behavior in the organization.

Anonymous said...

I'm so angry right now. I hate that they are getting away with this crap.

I only garden my driveway with a shovel from January through March in MN. Washington cant possibly be warm enough to do any planting of bulbs or the like.

I call BS... Then to hear she's not mourning? Or at least that's what she's acting like. Someone should look at the contents of his stomach for rat poisoning.

Anonymous said...

As I learned things I'd never heard I'd go online to debate others for fun. I was so proud of defending the one and only real doctrine.

I can see why it would be so difficult to leave even after all that is so painfully apparent. Ashmore, Curry, and others leaving. Ralph dying with no fanfare. Mansions for the higher ups. Compromising their own standards for their children and then letting the church now follow the new rules.

If you're still in the least you could do is start with a fresh mind and see where your brain leads you. Cause you will never have a 250K car, massive income, children that do whatever they want.

Wake up and use your brain.

At the very least gluttony is all around you!

I wasted way to much of the good part of my life. No where near what some of you have wasted. I'm still bitter.

Anonymous said...

With cases against him, NTCC may have felt if they made the knowledge of his death too known it would make NTCC look worse. They probably hoped you bloggers would never find out.

Anonymous said...

Along with secretiveness of money in how they don't show where the money goes or who gets paid what; this should show people they have something to hide when no one talks about the death of a pastor. It is like who paid who to get rid of him.

Anonymous said...

After reading about Mr. St.Clair's death I asked my mom who is still in NTCC in Graham. She was actually surprised because though she knew Mrs. St. Clair had strangely moved into one of the houses nothing was said of Mr. St. Clair. My mom thought maybe they had divorced. She said Mrs. St. Clair seems happy no signs of grief of a lost spouse.

Anonymous said...

Why didn't she just move into the dorm until she could decide what she wanted to do? Other alone women do. Why is her case different?

Brother D said...

Sorry, but the weather in NW has been 50-60 degrees most of Feb. Other than that you all are right on. Ntcc is a disgrace. Without natural affection as the word says. I was in it from 1973- 1982 and found it to be a fear-based group. I would be broke today had I stayed in it... Now I have a good life and work with different compassion-based ministries. My advice to nttc-ers: run baby run.

Don and Ange said...

I did look the weather up, and it was in the 50's and 60's but find it odd for people to be gardening that time of the year when there are so many lost souls on their way to hell. Don't they care about all the people they could be winning to God or are they more concerned about vegetables?

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said...
After reading about Mr. St.Clair's death I asked my mom who is still in NTCC in Graham. She was actually surprised because though she knew Mrs. St. Clair had strangely moved into one of the houses nothing was said of Mr. St. Clair. My mom thought maybe they had divorced. She said Mrs. St. Clair seems happy no signs of grief of a lost spouse.

DNA said:

Interesting. I'm surprised that there isn't a waiting list to move into ntcc properties. What kind of Christian would not like to be governed by all the rules associated with living in one of their houses? Like you can't be gone from your house for more than 2 hours without telling Mazza Kekel where you are going and get his approval. Or you can't have any sinner relatives or any relatives for that matter visit you in your house without the approval from kekel. I guess Joan won't have any problem with those rules, as long as she doesn't blab out the truth about what her and Ralph were involved in.

Don and Ange said...

No signs of Grief? A lot of people grieved over R-dub. They also had a celebration of life and a big shin dig where people brought out the nice china dinnerware for the feast they had. Poor ole Joan never got to feast or celebrate. Perhaps there was no promotion to celebrate. We heard they had to pass around the hat just to get Ralph cremated. No celebration, no fanfare....

Anonymous said...

Okay, I'm livid! Let's see if I follow this correctly. Ralph has a stroke while gardening with his wife. He is sent to the VA hospital. He dies after a few days at the VA hospital and Voila! she has to collect money from rich relatives to have a funeral and cremation for his carcass?! Hold on to your wallets, that's not how it works.

I pulled out my "Federal Benefits for Veterans Dependents and Survivors" book. Go to Chapter 8 the Burial and Memorial Benefits section.

If he died at the VA hospital- he's a veteran and has to be discharged under conditions other than dishonorable. He has have limited income or he has a service connected disability to be there. Thus his surviving spouse gets reimbursement money from the government for funeral and cremation expenses, headstone and a few bucks for a private cemetery if she decides not to bury him in a free State or Federal VA cemetery.

He is eligible for a government headstone or a marker to affix to an already existing headstone. He gets a free burial flag. Since his death occurred in a VA facility they will pay up to $734 in funeral and burial expenses. If he received a pension or disability rating from the VA they will pay up to $734 for a private plot.

Where was Ralph preachin' at? Since when will NOBODY donate to help cremate, bury and help the widow move? In my time at NTCC we were always passing the hat to help someone out.... and the plot thickens.

Don and Ange said...

If you donate money to Joan you are an idiot.

Don and Ange said...

Joan lied and said she didn't have a daughter.

Joan allegedly had her daughter perform sex acts on her.

Joan allegedly allowed Ralph to rape Julie.

Nobody has seen Joan showing any grief since Ralph allegedly died.

Joan was hitting up her rich mama for bucks to cremate Ralph.

Ntcc isn't going to help Joan. Why should you?

Don and Ange said...

In my opinion child rapists don't deserve benefits - veteran or otherwise. You don't pay perverts who abuse kids.

Don and Ange said...

On top of that, any money you give to Joan is going to go straight ointo kekel's pocket via the ntcc pipeline. You really are an idiot if you give that guy any of your money. He's got a quarter of a million dollar car that sits in a garage and won't do a free funeral service for someone he allegedly planned to make a district overseer??!!??

DON'T BE AN IDIOT AND FUND THESE CROOKS ANY MORE.

Don and Ange said...

Truth is, ntcc wants Joan to flounder in a financial quagmire so they can re-cycle her as they do every other woman who gets bounced back to the ntcc bridal school. As vile a s it may seem to some of you, there are some truly desperate single men who have been forced into life-long celibacy by the ntcc match-making rules. Even cock-eyed Joan can get a second spouse under that system.

Don and Ange said...

It's obvious they didn't bring her there to help her. THey won't do a funeral? They won't help her pay for a cremation? They want deposit and rent money and for her to get a job? How old is she? Ralph was supposedly 65 years old. HELLO. They want her money and they want her to be an anchor to some desperate old slob that thinks his ship has finally come in and "Gawd has porvided" him a new, albeit recycled, bride. 'Cause that's how it really is in YOUR NTCC!

Don't hate us for describing your sick system in words that even a blind bat could understand! And you are blind if you think anything about the ntcc way of doing things is godly or normal. It ain't. It's a sham to profit a few families off the sacrifice and suffering of thousands of us schlubs who got sucked into this real-estate scheme masquerading as a Christian church.

Don and Ange said...

You ntcc-ers don't need to sacrifice your weekly quota of meat - two packs of hotdogs, just so you can donate 5 bucks to Joan to burn Ralph. kekel could afford all that and then some without you depriving your family of its weekly dose of garlic laced meat by-products.

Don and Ange said...

That's how it is in YOUR NTCC.

Don and Ange said...

Joan should move into Verna's mansion and they can sit back, eat popcorn, and watch the videos that Julie alleges that their porn-star husbands allegedly made of them having sex with Julie.

Maybe they could have a showing and charge admission and donate that money to get Ralph cremated.

Don and Ange said...

I've never seen such beggars as I have the ntcc preachers hiding behind a pulpit and threatening people with eternal damnation if they don't
pay their tithes and offerings; because all Christians pay tithes (meaning you' ain't saved if you don't, hence eternally damned) or give in offerings...

I'm telling you, they are the biggest money grubbers who just dress it all up in robes of religion.

If you ask me, kekel is prolly havin' a hissy fit that nobody is passing the hat for poor ole Joan; because he's the one who'd get that dough.

Anonymous said...

Surely some reporter will dig into this site and find the truth. There is a story here! Rape, Incest, Greed, control, somebody that's in journalism school that wants a story should start here.

This is a career maker. Taking down a cult will make headlines.

Anonymous said...

I say we all plan a trip to Graham and sit in the front row. I should have my wife get a makeover and where a little dress or shorts. My son will have a kid rock shirt on and so will I. Then when the collection plate comes around we can throw in 2-3 hundred pennies each.

Am I being childish? I don't care! I want my money back until they stop doing nothing but taking and living it up.

Don and Ange said...

That's a great idea. Only we should throw in beans not pennies. If they want to live under the Old Testament tithing laws, then they should collect what people would pay as tithes under the Old Testament - grains of wheat, barley, or even lentils. Let's see what kekel can drive using a bunch of beans as his payment; since he wants to be some modern day h) High Priest. Better still, let's have kekel move to Denver, where pot is legal; and he truly will be their 'high' priest.

Don and Ange said...

Here's a Kid Rock song we like: vid

http://youtu.be/AjnNUI59keY

Maurice said...

Its unfortunate, that Mr. St. Clair did not take the time, to apologize to his daughter for molesting her, before he died. Hopefully, Mrs. St. Clair, her mother, will apologize for the role that she played in molesting there daughter, before she dies.

Anonymous said...

According to the NTCC's own doctrine, "You can't burn the candle for the devil, and then BLOW THE SMOKE IN GOD's FACE." so I'm pretty sure that it's going to take more than a passing apology to Julie, to change Joan' s fate!

Vic Johanson said...

No need for Mike to move; the weed's legal in Washington already.

Don and Ange said...

Well there ya go. He's probably already blazing.

Don and Ange said...

Sometimes we get comments that don't merit publishing. If you want to get on this blog and tell me that I'm wrong but you don't want to take ownership of your comments, don't expect them to be published. We've been doing this for a while now and it never ceases to amaze me that people will get on here and say you are wrong about this or you are wrong about that and they will sign it anonymous. These people don't even do any research on their own they just think we are wrong because their gods told them that we are wrong. Your god Kekel tells all of you to stay off the blogs and you don't dare sign your name or he'll find out that you have been on here. How does he find out? He reads this blog as much as I do. That's why he's always doing damage control. I guess Olson is in charge of damage control now because Kekel really does and says stupid things when he gets on. He tries to defend the indefensible.

When Olson does damage control, he looks at the big picture and comes up with the best strategy he can to cover up the mistakes that have been made. For instance when people get mad because they have to go on the forbidden blog to find out that St. Clair died, they get disgruntled and people start murmuring. Word gets back and Olson gets on his blog and says, Brother SinClair, oops, I mean St. Clair received his promotion. I guess several people asked why St. Clair was never healed of his diabetes or any of his supposed numerous ailments, because Olson decided to address that by saying that Ralph was no longer in pain and that he's healed now because he is in heaven. I guess there must be a different heaven than most of us read about in the bible. I guess there is a heaven for child molesters like Davis and St. Clair. But getting back to the point, Olson knows better than to refute the allegations that were brought forth on this blog. If it were Kekel he would try to shoot holes in the testimony of Julie and would discredit her some more.

The reason these people don't confront us about Julies testimony is because it happened and they would make themselves look really stupid if they refuted it. But now that Ralph is conveniently gone, I'm wondering if they can keep Joan's mouth from running. After all she's the one who admitted that Ralph sexually abused and Raped his daughter. No wonder they tell everyone that they don't have a daughter.

We have invested a lot of time in this blog and we give the victims the benefit of the doubt. We report what they say and that's all there is too it. If someone we blog about gives us inaccurate details and you can prove it, than prove it, and put your name on it. Don't say that Ralph had a massive heart attack when he had a stroke and then accuse me of being wrong. Your yellow streak keeps you from signing your comments but you want to criticize and find fault with what we write? We are not Journalists, we are former cult members that have been taken for a lot of money and we got to play a bunch of mind games with Davis and company in return for our dedication and giving. We are here to help those that need and want help. We are not here to appease anyone. This is an opinion based blog just like Kekel's and Olson's and Ashmore's blogs. If you want to continue drinking their Koolaid, by all means drink it till you get sloppy drunk and turn your brains off for the rest of your life and let them lead you into that ditch.

Don and Ange said...

We don't mind if people comment anonymously. We encourage people to so and we understand that people have shared some very sensitive facts about what they went through. That's not easy to do. Most of the people that have shared these things have signed their name and they have found healing and their lives have changed for the better. They realize that they were not alone and they encourage others not to blame themselves. The ntcc made sure that if you left their church that you would leave thinking that you were forever condemned. Many of us left thinking there was no hope of ever being free from their teachings.

Numerous people have shared testimony on this blog and Jeff's, DS/GS and factnet. If it were just one or two isolated incidents, I might be inclined to believe that they were lying, but there are hundreds of people who have stated why they left and most of them left for very good reasons. If you have been abused in any way or if you are in the ntcc and have come to the conclusion that the ntcc leadership are a bunch of fraudulent and grievous hypocrites, you are welcome to leave a comment anonymously or sign it if you want.

If you are one of those hypocrites that want to defend the ntcc leaders in spite of the hundreds of people they have tried to destroy, and you want to tear people down or find fault but you haven't got the guts to say who you are, than you will have to find a blog that will allow you to do so. This blog might be a little bit like the Gong Show. If you are too yellow, you will get the gong. If you are too shallow than you will be gonged. We don't have to play by your rules. We followed your stupid rules for too many years. This is how it's done over here, if you don't like it than go soak your head in a bucket.

We are free from the bondage of the ntcc. I can watch a TV without going to Walmart or the recreation center on post and still go to heaven. I don't have to change bylaws and make excuses to everyone why God has changed his mind about how I'm supposed to dress. We are adults. We can conduct ourselves as such without going back to the old testament law. Get real. Be real. Stop being so phony. Stop the hypocrisy. Don't call yourselves saved and break all the rules that you imposed upon others. Read your bibles and stop being a bunch of hypocrites. Stop subjecting yourselves to a bunch of double standard hypocrites. Live for God or don't, but don't act like you've got the only set of keys to heaven when you've spent your lives living off of other peoples money, tearing them down and climbing over them to achieve your status. One day your kingdom is going to come crashing down because it built on the wrong foundation. If you continue to laugh and mock the poor, and despise the broken and make merchandise of the people that would do anything for you because they think that you are God's servant, when you are your own servants and you are greedy and full of all hate, your kingdom just might come crashing down. We hope it does because you have abused your offices and done those things that are contrary to God. You have demanded that others treat you like angelic beings while you have defiled the weakest and simplest for your own gratitude. You have taken that which was God's and you have made it filthy and wretched and while you have made yourselves wealthy and rich and fat by collecting tithe and offerings as if they were taxes. You kept it all for yourselves and hoarded it. Do you really think God is pleased with you? What would you do if you were God and someone treated you like you are treating God?

Anonymous said...

How can they put a known child rapist in such a high regard, then nobody has enough God about them to say anything? Or for that matter anyone who has done these things? How can you follow someone like that? Do you really believe in God?

Anonymous said...

Don and Ange, I want to thank you and all the others that have come forth with various blogs and comments on cult exposing forums.

I, Joan B., am the one that made the "I am livid!" comment earlier in this comment section. As I have re read through the comments it sounded as if I thought that NTCC members should help out Joan St. Clair- that was not my intention. I was exposing the hypocrisy of her trying to get money from her family. The hypocrisy of NTCC leadership NOT taking care of even their own "Golden Pastors" wives.

I got out in '89 but it wasn't till around 2008 when I called Tracy Pelfrey that I could completely heal. I learned that my experience was the norm and that things were ALOT worse than I knew. I am forever grateful to Tracy and all that take the time to emotionally support each other.

To Julie and ALL of the other physical and sexual assault victims of NTCC ... I believe you.

Joan B.

Maurice said...

For years prior to my time and after my time in ntcc, the leadership/Board allowed davis to preach and teach anything that he wanted to without them ever standing up, or questioning his motives, or his doctrine. Olson, Johnson, Ashmore, Jones and other weak kneed, leaders never stood up to davis. In many ways ntcc parallel the Judaizers of Acts15:1;21:20,21; Phil.3:2-3. The judaizers insisted that the gentiles not only had to have faith in Jesus Christ but, also had to be circumcised in order to be Saved. This is no different than davis pay ten percent tithe, or go to hell doctrine. Both teach that Christian must do more than simply repenting, and excepting Jesus Christ as there personal Lord and Savior by faith in order to be saved. Davis and his flunkies went even further than requiring there members to pay ten percent tithe, Barbra Norton, and the St. clairs gave up there families in order to please davis, (stupid is as stupid does) Wonder how did that turn out for them? Davia did not give up his Wife, Kid, or Grandson but those idiots did.

Maurice said...

Their is a lot of con-artis in our society, and unfortunately davis and ntcc choice of con happen to be military men and women and religion.

1 NCO 2 Another said...

Joan B.,

Thank you for the clarification. Your comment is fine. We did have a lot to say, though, about not wanting people to fund mike kekel's greed. It's really poor form to have a ton of money and expensive toys that you acquired after years of being married to the founder of the ntcc, and to be unwilling to help an alleged widow while claiming to be the CEO of a nonprofit that calls itself a Christian church. Seriously? Get a job kekel. Stop leeching off the body of Christ.

1 NCO 2 Another said...

Maurice,

Thanks for the comments. You've been making some great points about the ntcc.

We especially liked the comparison you made to the judaizers.

Christians, read Galatians and know that salvation is by GRACE.

Beware of anyone who tries to bring you into bondage (literally slavery) to a set of rules or doctrines that do not appear in the bible.


Maurice said...

Ntcc leadership will probably just retread Mrs.St. clair to some poor GI, thirty years her junior and then convince the both of them just how bless they are.

Anonymous said...

Maurice,

I don't know how old she is but that's disgusting if marriages happen that are separated by that much time.

Please never speak of it again!!!

Anonymous said...

She looks 70. I'm 41. That is disgusting. Please for the love of humanity don't talk about retreads.

I think I'm going to lose my lunch (breakfast).

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said...
She looks 70. I'm 41. That is disgusting. Please for the love of humanity don't talk about retreads.

DNA said...
That is how it goes in the ntcc. Usually the younger girls 14 through 18 get married off to men in their twenties. Mike and Tanya Kekel are the poster children for age disparity. I'm not sure exactly how old they were when they started dating but there was a 9 year disparity between their ages. That means Tanya was 9 when Kekel was 18. That is completely wrong but for some reason if you give them each five years and allow Tanya to develop some adult characteristics, it becomes acceptable to some in the ntcc. Davis is a sick dude to allow Mike to date Tanya at that age. There is something wrong with Mike for wanting to date a girl that is barely in her teens. There is also something wrong with Tanya for wanting to date a man well into his twenties.

Most people that were blogging about this stuff acknowledge that if they were the father of a 14 year old girl and some 23 year old pervert came around to take her out on a date, that he would be met at the front door with a shot gun. Tanya and Mike not only dated but Muck bragged about feeling each Tanya up and groping her. This is just plain wrong in the eyes of normal people that attend normal churches or even those who have very little morality and don't go to church at all. Davis not only went along with this, but he endorsed it.

Because the ntcc is a cult, they were able to convince their brainwashed members that this kind of thing is normal. You ntcc mind numbed zombies have ignored the obvious for so long, and now you have trouble believing that these long time ministers in the ntcc to include R-dub were a bunch of pedophiles and child molesting perverts. You are too scared to call a spade a spade. God is not going to judge you for being honest, but if you ignore it and continue to follow these perverts, don't make excuses for them and say we are the problem.

When a 40 year old gets married to a 70 year old the 40 year old is about 3/5th's of the 70 year old's age which is almost exactly the same fraction as when a 23 year old marries a 14 year old. They say they actually married when Tanya was 16, but they were dating and petting each other years earlier and according to Ken Mike had a picture of Tanya in 1979 in his wallet that he would show to people and tell them to stay away from her because she was his. That would make Tanya about 13 at that time and Mike would have been 21 if they were ever telling the truth about their ages. But it's okay, because we are all cult members and whatever we do is okay in the eyes of God. Our church leaders can do anything they want and we will follow them stupidly and blindly. If you are not like us you are a bunch of ungodly sinners.

I'm so glad that I'm no longer caught up in all of that garbage. You people want to be a part of that then knock yourselves out. The ntcc has turned out to be the garbage can of all religions. They think that dressing up in 19th century costumes is going to give them a pearly gate pass into heaven while they ignore all of the sick things that have been going on around them since the inception of the ntcc. Don't be too surprised if it doesn't work out that way.

Anonymous said...

I went to a conference in 98 (Davis closed it with "where there is no vision the people perish) I believe and we went to a restaurant. While in line, with everyone else from conference,a 20 something year old guy with his 15 year old wife came in. Why I brushed that off I'll never know. My wife and I looked at each other and couldn't believe that was sanctioned but it was my first conference and I let it go.

Don and Ange said...

If you ever wonder if you are in a cult, study the relationship protocol within that organization. A normal healthy church and it's Pastor will not forbid marriage as it contradicts the bible. If they are telling you you can't date or talk to someone ask them why. If they get indignant and expect you to obey them without reason, then you are most likely in a cult.

If people are getting married at an age where they are almost old enough to be the parent of their spouse and one of them is underage, and everyone acts like it's a great thing, you are among a whole bunch of brain washed cult members. If your so called pastor tells you who you can and can not talk to, he is a cult leader appearing as a minister of light. Read your bibles people. Do you think Davis ever got permission from anyone to date or talk to any woman? Do you think he ever asked permission of anyone to be alone with another married woman, to knock on their doors when they were home alone or to ask them inappropriate questions about sexual matters? Do you think Davis or any of the alleged board members got permission from anyone to rape any of the girls that have came forward on this blog and testified that they had been violated?

The ntcc is the worse kind of cult because not only are they in it for the money but they also were driven by lust to commit adultery, molest and rape children, trafficking children, commit homosexual acts and vist whore houses. They are not only using their cult members to get rich but they also use them to gratify their sexual desires. If you are a part of the ntcc and you refuse to take a closer look at these allegations you might as well be enabling people like Kekel and Kinson. There are more than the required amount of witnesses but most of you are too brainwashed to listen or care. You think that you have fellowship with the brethren and that you are a part of the last move of God on earth, but you are just another cult member that blindly follows corrupt religious leaders and enables them by giving large amounts of your money to them. They are living high on the hog, reveling and lusting. They are being paid to indulge in every evil type of sin that they preach against, while you sit idly by giving them money so they can splurge and buy anything your money will purchase for them whenever they get the impulse to spend.

You might just be in a cult, but don't say we didn't try to warn you. Don't pretend like nobody cared enough to make every detail public so you could have enough education to make a sound responsible adult decision. You are the ones afraid to confront your mind controlling, narcissistic leaders of any misconduct they have been involved with. If I was giving ten percent of my money to someone, I would want to know what they were doing with it all. You have a right to know. The bible doesn't tell you to blindly give to the absorbent lifestyles of your leaders and turn a blind eye while they take advantage of children sexually. Why would you listen to anyone that tells you to live a certain way while they are living opposite lives? It's called HYPOCRISY. They are a bunch of double standard hypocrites and that's all there is to it.

Don and Ange said...

We hope people will understand that we look at things from our perspective of Christianity, not to judge anyone else, but to filter out the trash that seems to be a toxic ingredient that the ntcc doctrine is laced with. I know that it took me 14 years outside of the organization to learn that God still cared about me. When we use the ntcc's doctrine to expose them for their own hypocrisy, we do so not to accuse those that are no longer part of the ntcc, but we want people to see the double standards.

We have no desire to preach ntcc doctrine to those that have been hurt by the ntcc. It is our belief that God is able to heal all of us over time. Whatever that time table is, we are not here to call out anyone or to point fingers at them for doing anything. We believe in restoration and that through God's love and grace we can have a life that is richer in God than what we were forced to live while in the ntcc cult. We don't wish to force what we believe on anyone because it was not forced on us. The greatest step towards recovering from the ntcc cult experience is understanding that God still loves me (and you) as an individual. That's hard to realize when we were part of a group that constantly harassed each one of us and preached that if we ever left their church that we were like a dog returning to it's own vomit. They specialized in making us believe that anything we did was insufficient while never being able to do enough to please them.

If anyone is interested in Salvation outside of the ntcc, it is not only attainable, but leaving this corrupt organization is the first step towards getting your mind right so your heart can also be healed. If anyone implies that they are the only move of God on planet earth, and you believe them, you are placing yourself under bondage to live according to the desires of the leadership of that group. We believe that God hasn't called us to be miserable in salvation.

For those who have been hurt so bad that they don't want anything to do with God, we ask that you give it time. God is not the author of confusion and there are very few people on this planet that are more confused than the members of the ntcc. They don't know what standards they should keep. They were told one thing by Davis and now that he is dead people are deserting the ntcc. We are finding that the leadership of the ntcc has always lived in sin according to their own standards and they have been stealing your money from you all the while. They preach one thing and live another. How could you not be thoroughly confused and mixed up in the head trying to figure this stuff out while thinking that if you left you would spend eternity in hell?

Leaving the ntcc is not a spiritual death sentence but a chance to step back from all the chaos and figure out the source of freedom. We've heard this many times: "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed." John 8:36 That is what Christianity should be like in our lives.

Don and Ange said...

We can't be free when someone else does all our thinking and deciding for ourselves. We can't be free when some con artist is telling us that we have to give all our money to their so called God inspired causes that leave you living from paycheck to paycheck while your so called spiritual leaders are living like a bunch of rich politicians who could care less if you can make your rent or car payments each month. We can't be free when we are trying to obey men that call themselves church leaders, pastors, elders, apostles but they allow their wives and their children to live different standards than what you are expected to make your wives and kid's live by. We can't be free when we are praying that God blesses and moves in our lives and our churches when the leaders of the church are really running a sex ring with all kinds of sick things being done to underage children by the founder and long time board members and other long time members. You have to cut the head of the monster off or it will continue to take the body in the wrong direction.

How do you cut the head off of the ntcc monster? Stop feeding it first. If all of you so called men of God would all stand for God and for the people you claim to love as your flock, and stop sending all of your money to Kekel so he and Tanya can't keep feeding their insatiable appetite, then you would be cutting off the head of the money hungry beast.

It's actually more like a two headed beast. Kekel and Olson, the two filthiest, money grubbers in the organization that will cover their own sins while destroying souls one at a time to keep their money and numbers flowing. Stop feeding the beast. I know it will never happen unless everyone wakes up at the same time.

Don and Ange said...

2 Cor 3:14

"But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ."

This holds true in the ntcc today. They should call them selves the OTCC or Old Testament Christian Churches of America, INC. They keep more of the Old Testament law than they do the New Testament. They try to work their way into heaven and Grace means nothing to them, unless they get caught molesting someone's daughter, then they demand grace and mercy. The most important PP (Preaching Point) in the ntcc is Old Testament tithe. Can any of you spineless ntcc cult members find that New Testament scripture that mandates tithe that we have been asking for you to share for the last 5 years? No you can not, because you are still blinded by that vail you have. Jesus spoke about many important things and you would think if tithe was as important to Him as it is to you, He would have said something about it. I mean, you people preach tithe or hell, and wouldn't hesitate to run someone off if they didn't pay tithe. I watched good people get run off and chased away from God because they didn't swallow your lies about tithe. Just about every ntcc pastor I had would use tithe to get rid of people. It's interesting that I never saw Jesus do that. Have any of you in the ntcc ever saw Jesus tell the woman taken in adultery or the man let down on the bed, or the the woman that touched the hem of Jesus Garment ever that they needed to go pay tithe and give in offerings or they were God robbers and on their way to hell? I mean they were still under the law, and there were times when the law applied to the ones Jesus healed but I still don't remember him telling anyone to go and pay their tithes or spend eternity in the lake of fire.

Can any of you ntcc bible scholars show us in the New Testament where tithe or hell doctrine is preached? Perhaps we have different bibles or we need a special revelation to understand it? I think the more logical conclusion is that you all have been had. You are involved in a great big tithing scam that Davis the Salesman seen as an opportunity to make big money with. The vail is pulled down tightly over your eyes and you won't even lift it for a second to see the truth. Why do you think Ashmore left? Do you think he all of the sudden decided to "live in sin" after 40 years of being a "preaching machine" and "walking bible"? Remember Davis associated leaving the ntcc with leaving God, so does that make Ashmore a reprobate? Or is Ashmore right and the ntcc wrong? I got news for you. Ashmore is not going to change. The ntcc is not going to change. It's all about money, power, greed, sex and hiding sin. As long as you keep hiding behind that vail, it's easy for the ntcc leadership to keep using and abusing women. As long as you keep that vail pulled down over your eyes you will continue to support these perverts that use you like a woman's menstrual cloth.

Isa 64:6 "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags;"

This is why you will never find peace in the ntcc. There is no peace in legalism. You are striving for perfection using Old Testament laws and man made rules to justify yourselves. If you are going to use Old Testament to live by, why not apply Isaiah 64:4 to your lives instead of following a bunch of fault finders that only have their own interests at heart? They want you to hide behind that vail because it allows them to continue to live in their corrupt ways while you support them. You keep giving your money to them so Grant can have a fine Catholic education and the Kekel's can save up for their next mansion upgrade and continue to buy new cars. They can care less about your soul, and as long as you keep that vail down they will continue to take advantage of you, the people you love and the ones you call brother and sister.

Anonymous said...

Well said,

Not only is there no peace in legalism but when you finally escape it is a long road to breaking free from believing you can go to heaven doing normal people things.

Once I left I not only didn't have peace but I felt even more lost.

Now, I'm happy but still recovering.

Julie said...

I just want to say thanks to those who have reached out to me. There is a song that has blessed my heart. They claim I caused stress to Ralph St. Clair by not being silent and God can never love a person like me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoYgi0sdOqc

God's love will always remain no matter what people may say. We can always count of the love of God.

REMEMBER GOD LOVES YOU!!!!

Hugs,
Julie

Anonymous said...

How do you really get away from all the teaching from NTCC? I read my bible and all I hear is what was taught. How do you shut it all off and see the truth and the real God.

Mr. St. Clair use to be my pastor and the way he preached one was never right with God. One had to get saved over and over. He had a very nosy wife and she had about making fun of people and that laugh of her was awful.

Reading about how they were with people makes me wonder if they were offending every child that went over their house. When I knew they didn't have any children at home but they always had children over their house. Mrs. St. Clair taught nursery/preschool out of her house. They had girls over for cooking lessons, sewing lessons, and piano lessons. Sometimes they would take girls places. Looking back on it I wonder why I didn't see the oddness of it mostly being girls.

Why did this have to happen?

Anonymous said...

Caused stress to that d. bag!? People wake up! Child rape is not a " family matter" ! Show me in the Bible where God says it is right to have sex with kids? I think I read somewhere in the Bible that says incest is DETESTABLE! Anyone who does not speak out or endorses child molesters are just as SICK and guilty as the pediphile!

Maurice said...

The leaders of ntcc, Pastors, Teachers, Preachers, Ministers etc. are all just as guilty as Davis, for preaching, teaching, and influencing his doctrine on the innocent Christian brothers and sisters that was under there authority. They being bible scholars, and teachers, knew or should have known that davis was preaching and teaching things that was contrary to the New Testament, however they made the decision to preach davis doctrine anyway, and for that they are just as guilty for fleecing Gods people who came to God in faith.

Maurice said...

Ntcc Pastorate or Pastors failed to protect the flock, the sheep, from a straight up demented wolf like davis and kekel whom enjoyed demeaning Christian brothers and sisters. Where was, or better yet, where are those leaders who was suppose to protect the flock? Olson, even double down saying if Pastor Davis says that the sky is green, then the ski is green. Brick, by Brick, by Brick, Ntcc doctrine is slowly but surely being disassembled by the truth.

Don and Ange said...

Julie said:

"They claim I caused stress to Ralph St. Clair by not being silent and God can never love a person like me."

DNA said:

Rejoice and be exceeding glad when these thugs speak evil of you. Whatever they say, you can depend on the truth being the opposite. This is probably the type of damage control they do from their pulpits. They can't deny their part in it, so they use their platform to tear down those who have come forward. They have been using this tactic for years and it only works on those who have weak minds and are afraid to question them, such as the cult members that turn a blind eye to the truth and go along with anything Kekel says.

Good Video.

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said...
Caused stress to that d. bag!? People wake up! Child rape is not a " family matter" ! Show me in the Bible where God says it is right to have sex with kids?

DNA said:

They can't show you in the bible where child rape is okay. They can't justify their actions nor have they tried to. The only thing they can do is to discredit the victims. This is how they have handled damage control for the many allegations of child molestation, rape, adultery, whore mongering and any other sins they are guilty of.

Don and Ange said...

Maurice said:

"they are just as guilty for fleecing Gods people who came to God in faith"

DNA said:

You are 100% right. So many of the Pastors in the ntcc have made a decision to ignore parts of the bible that they have read that shoot holes in the Davis doctrine, but they choose to ignore the bible and believe Davis. Not only do they ignore what the bible teaches but they ignore how Davis lived and how Kekel lives. They ignore the lack of love. They choose to be like Davis and Kekel who care nothing about people with the exception of what they can get out of them. How much money in tithes can that person generate. How much can a person increase my lifestyle by financing this religious scam that I created to get rich? This is how they think.

The majority of the pastors and members have been taught how to think, what to think and when to think. In fact they have been taught more not to think than they have to think. They have been taught that they need to shut their brains off and ask their pastor how to live rather than to figure it out for themselves.

Don and Ange said...

Maurice said...
"Ntcc Pastorate or Pastors failed to protect the flock, the sheep, from a straight up demented wolf like davis and kekel whom enjoyed demeaning Christian brothers and sisters. Where was, or better yet, where are those leaders who was suppose to protect the flock? Olson, even double down saying if Pastor Davis says that the sky is green, then the ski is green. Brick, by Brick, by Brick, Ntcc doctrine is slowly but surely being disassembled by the truth."

DNA said...

So true Brother. Davis and Kekel have not only demeaned the brethren, they have taken pleasure in demeaning them. They are just like wolves. They have preached and lived double standards while others have suffered trying to do what is right. Double standard hypocrites like Davis and Kekel don't care about people. They don't have any remorse when they trample all over others. They make up rules to keep everyone else in check and don't think twice about breaking those rules themselves.

They are hypocrites. They are liars. They are not bible believing Christians or any kind of Christians. They live anyway they want, and condemn others for doing much less than they are guilty of. That's called hypocrisy, and you are 100% right Maurice. If you can get away with saying the sky is green when it's blue and people will go along with that, they'll go along with anything.

99% of the people in the ntcc only really know a few scriptures. They memorize the verses dealing with obedience to their so called leadership, and they use those scriptures to justify disregarding the rest of the bible. If your pastor tells you to give him 10% of your money are you going to just open your wallet and give him the money without one New Testament scripture to support it? That's what we all did, because we chose to believe a man more than the bible. We are still waiting for that first person from ntcc to come along with one bible verse that can support the ntcc's tithe or hell doctrine, but guess what? It's not in there so they can't support it. Just one verse in the New Testament. We'll even take an Old Testament verse if you will keep it in context with Old Testament tithing that went to the Priests and Levites who unlike Davis and Kekel had no mansions or land and was very seldom paid in cash.

It's too bad you can't convince cult members to think for themselves. It's like talking to a brick wall. They will only believe what their cult leaders teach them and they will disregard everything else to include the Words of Christ and the way He lived his life.

Anonymous said...

Are they not thinking for themselves or are they just believing what they've been taught the bible teaches. I know I used to think we were being persecuted for not being like the world. Makes sense when the bible says to not be like the world. I think attacking them as cult members is the incorrect way of going about this. I would choose to continue with posting stories that correctly display the bad of the org. Most of this site correctly goes about showing how horrible the culture has become or always was.

Anonymous said...

Out the leadership and the horrors they've produced. The members will come around.

God bless,
Jack

Anonymous said...

There are many verses in the Old Testament that speak of tithe but here is the scriptures that show tithe was carried over to the New Testament.

Luke 6:38
I corinthians 9:7 -11
Hebrews 7
I Corinthians 16:1-4

ICorinthians 6:10
Shows how thieves will go to hell and this points to how not paying tithe is stealing from God.

Anonymous said...

You just couldn't let the dead rest in peace. This post has caused grieve his widow and many others. This is not shOwing the love of a true Christian but bitterness of a filthy sinner.

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said...
You just couldn't let the dead rest in peace. This post has caused grieve his widow and many others. This is not shOwing the love of a true Christian but bitterness of a filthy sinner.

DNA said:

How do you know he's even dead? Doesn't seem to be any proof of him dying. Does a child rapist rest in peace? I'm not saying he's in hell or heaven but if you do the things that he's done to children, I doubt resting in peace is what he is doing right now.

Joan was said to have shown no grief whatsoever, but why should anyone worry about her grieving? Did anyone worry about the grief she and Ralph caused their daughter? Why are you on here anyway, to justify what Ralph and Joan did to their daughter? If we ignore the past and say nothing than perverts like Ralph and Joan will continue to violate children. I think it's sick that you are more concerned about these pedophiles than you are about their victims.

I really don't care if you consider me to be a Christian or filthy sinner. Your vote isn't really important in the grand scheme of things. Christians and sinners alike would be appalled at what was done to the St. Clair's daughter. What if it were someone in your family? Would you allow Joan to watch your kids at her little day care center? If you would, you are just as sick as she is.

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said...
There are many verses in the Old Testament that speak of tithe but here is the scriptures that show tithe was carried over to the New Testament.

Luke 6:38

"Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again."

DNA said:

How do you associate this verse with paying 10% cash tithe? You have labeled this as tithe incorrectly. Giving and tithe are two totally different things. Tithe in the Old Testament was very very seldom paid in cash. Read your bible. It was usually an agricultural gift, that was given to the Levites because they had no inheritance.

Maybe you misunderstood. Show us one scripture that proves that tithe is mandated in the New Testament. Our point here is that the ntcc leaders will tell you that if you don't pay tithe (10% cash) you will die and go to hell for robbing God. Show us please where Jesus, Paul, Peter or anyone in the New Testament said that.

All of you ntcc'rs should be more concerned about giving to those in need, not a bunch of filthy rich religious leaders like Kekel, Kinson and Olson. Where does it say in the bible that people should get rich off of your giving?

Don and Ange said...

Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.

1 Cor 9:7-11

Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?

Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?

For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?

Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.

If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?

DNA said:

Again, nowhere is tithe mentioned in these verses. If you read down just a couple more verses you would find Vs. 15 which says:

"But I have used none of these things: neither have I written these things, that it should be so done unto me: for it were better for me to die, than that any man should make my glorying void."

Paul must be going to hell because he is saying that he never required this of these people even though he could have. These scriptures are talking about taking care of the Man of God financially, but nowhere does it talk about paying him 10% cash. This again is willful giving, and Paul was saying that he those who minister spiritual things shouldn't have to ask for money.

Please show us the verse where Paul says that you have to give 10% cash or tithe or else you will go to hell. And while you are at it, show us the verse that says people like Kekel can collect your tithe and get filthy rich off of it.

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said...
There are many verses in the Old Testament that speak of tithe but here is the scriptures that show tithe was carried over to the New Testament.

Hebrews 7

Not going to publish the entire chapter of Hebrews 7, but it's talking about Abraham who paid tithes willingly to Melchisidec. I searched this whole chapter and I could not find the scripture that says that God commanded Abraham to pay tithe. It also said that he gave a tenth of his spoils, which no doubt he had obtained in the last war. It says that this was a one time gift. We read no other accounts of Abraham giving 10% after every war he ever fought or every increase he ever was given. I just can't seem to find any of the scriptures that we asked for in any of your references. If I'm missing something please set me straight.

This is the problem in the ntcc. You believe anything they tell you. If they tell you that tithe is required or you will go to hell you believe them even though they will never produce one bible vs. that says that. You have been had. You are part of a scheme and Kekel and Olson are laughing all the to the bank. If they tell you to dress a certain way you will do that without question and then when the very leaders that told you to dress like that begin to compromise, you will compromise with them. It's called religion. You are in a cult. Sorry if the truth hurts, but it sometimes does. It will hurt a lot more if you continue to ignore it. The more you invest into this cult, the more you will hurt yourself.

Is it not the Christian thing to do, to warn people? Is it not the Christian thing to do if you see someone in a burning building, to sound the alarm or call the fire department or do something to try to rescue them?

Don and Ange said...

I Corinthians 16:1-4

ICorinthians 6:10
Shows how thieves will go to hell and this points to how not paying tithe is stealing from God.

1 Cor 16:1-4 is talking about taking up a collection for the poor saints. He is asking them to take care of it before he gets there. He told them to give as God had prospered them. He didn't say to pay 10% or their hard earned money each payday. He didn't demand to see their pay stubs like some ntcc pastors demand to see a GI's LES (Leave and Earnings Statement) so they would know that they were not holding anything back. Again you are finding scriptures that soothe your own conscience and justify your giving large amounts of your own money to a cult.

The last scripture that you mention is talking about all thieves will have their part in the lake of fire or something to that effect. Here you are calling people thieves for not paying their tithes. If you are referring to the Old Testament Scripture in Malichi where it asks will a Man rob God? You need to look at what that scripture says. Has nothing to do with money, but the the Sons of Levi were not doing what God required of them. They were not bringing the tithe of the people into the storehouse of God. Was the storehouse a bank in which money was kept, or was it a large barn where grain and other agricultural gifts were kept? They had money back then but tithe was almost always paid in agricultural giving so the Levites and Priests would have sacrifices to offer up to God and they would be able to sustain themselves in the ministry of the OLD TESTAMENT LAW. Where was this all carried over into the New Testament? It wasn't.

Thanks for trying, that's more than we can say for Kekel. He wouldn't dare come on here and try to justify why he is filthy rich off of your tithe dollars. He won't even be honest with you. If it's not in the bible don't preach it. That's called false doctrine and it makes Kekel a false prophet. Anyone in the ntcc that preaches that you will go to hell if you don't pay tithe is preaching false doctrine and that makes them a false prophet, plain and simple.

Don and Ange said...

Finally, if you want to know how to give, don't just read the ntcc talking points references. Read just a little bit further into 2 Corinthians chapter 9:7

"Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."

This tells you how God wants you to give in the New Testament. It doesn't get any plainer than this. You give according to how you purpose in your heart, not grudgingly or of necessity, but cheerfully. It's not like a bill that you have to pay every time you get paid. There's no 10% plus this offering and that offering.

People are way too caught up in giving to some sorry excuse for a human being that uses the ministry to obtain wealth. That is not what God intended nor has God ever endorsed that idea.

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said...
Are they not thinking for themselves or are they just believing what they've been taught the bible teaches. I know I used to think we were being persecuted for not being like the world. Makes sense when the bible says to not be like the world. I think attacking them as cult members is the incorrect way of going about this. I would choose to continue with posting stories that correctly display the bad of the org. Most of this site correctly goes about showing how horrible the culture has become or always was.

DNA said:

Thank you for your comment and I actually do understand where you are coming from. We used to handle people with Kid gloves and try that strategy of "not attacking them". I wish someone would have not only attacked me, but physically removed me from the cult and talked some sense into me. These people in the ntcc cult are taught to have a thick skin and to ignore everything we say. We have been at this for a long time and while there are some that disagree with our tactics, there are many that have gotten out and thanked us for what we are doing.

I think that we tried the soft approach for quite a while, and it didn't have as much of an effect as just telling the truth. The Bible says Know the truth. You want to be free you need the truth. Glossing it over and trying to be friends doesn't get anyone's attention. Chief is probably the most successful ntcc blogger of all time and he doesn't mince words. In fact, I've probably been more easy on people than he has but I really think his honest and simple approach to the truth is very effective. He's up front and real with people and he's never changed his approach.

We have been threatened, and scolded, lied about and hated but we are still here. We probably wouldn't be here if there wasn't a need for us to be here. The more people wake up and leave the ntcc, the less of a need there will be for us. Our hope is that the ntcc cult that masquerades as a church will be ceased by the Government and all the real estate will be sold off, all of the board members thrown in jail and the victims awarded settlements for their suffering.

Anonymous said...

D/A

Thanks for your response about the kid gloves.

I have no problem with an all out assault on the board for their sins. I guess having been a member I was just looking at it from the point of view that people are always going to persecute me for my beliefs. Had someone showed me what my leaders were doing years ago (to include leaving and or their kids leaving) I would have given up long ago.

I can't tell you how much I've appreciated this website.

Take care!!!

Anonymous said...

What is the deal with all the churn? Why wouldn't you want people that are coming to Sunday Service to continue? Why guilt trip them into coming to 5 services and running them off. People will increase their faithfulness as they want more. Not because someone yells at them from a pulpit.

I don't recognize 90% of the pastors names at the churches. Maybe more. If they built them up instead of tearing them down and spitting them out they'd have much better success.

Not that I want them to, just seems so stupid.

Anonymous said...

The "Churn" happens when pastors/congregants start seeing the truth and start asking the borg questions. Gotta get rid of em as there is no free thinking allowed.

Anonymous said...

They didn't say anything about this man passing because he is a black mark on the org. They are probably glad he is dead. This wife will get the same treatment that any other widow in the NTCC gets, deal with it and pay your own way. The NTCC does nothing to help widows even pastors wives. I remember when I attended Graham and there was a nice woman who's husband passed away and he had a church in Tacoma, I believe the name was Ramirez, after her husband died she had to go out and get a job. Why, because she had to support herself, the NTCC was not going to help her. I remember Kekel preaching, "why should the church support the widows". Before I woke up and left the cult, I always thought how uncaring that was of the NTCC. I remember seeing here working at Walmart...wow, she was a preachers wife, now widow, working at Walmart. This was the beginning of the end for me, if the cult members would just read their bible without listening to all the junk they hear from the pulpit they would realize "what kind of church is this?" and leave...never looking back.

Anonymous said...

I left the NTCC in Graham and try not to think about being in this cult for many years, I try to move on, then I come out a read this blog and it never ceases to amaze me, the stuff about these "un Godly" men. It stirs up some feelings in me that I wish I could let go.

Anonymous said...

Sorry ANON,

If it wasn't for this blog I'd still be in dire straights. I was looking for ways to get back in. Then I Googled them and sites like this came up. Things started to connect for me. It became totally clear what was going on and now I'm in this till the end.

I'm sure there are stories to repulsive to post about this org. I hope some of the good people I've met find their own way out.

Mike

Anonymous said...

Hey Don, has anyone approached Bruce Smith about all the strange stuff surrounding Ralph's death? Has anyone followed up with the VA to see which one he died at? Julie has the legal right to such information from the police dept. and VA. Also she has legal rights to the death certificate. If none exists time to notify police departments with active investigations.
Joan B.
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