HOW IT SHOULD BE:
SHE AIN'T HEAVY,
SHE'S MY SISTER!
John said...
Don and Ange you show that you have never had to live with the humiliation of having a family member going public with such disgusting news. I don't believe anything wicked should ever be in the news the same as I believe this type of stuff should be discussed with a counselor or a professional not among the public or every day people. I am not going to tell you my problems you are not a counselor. My sister is wrong on every level in speaking to you or the public.
Ange you don't have a degree this making my sister a gossiper and talebearer. Yes she suffered at the hands of Davis but he is dead. Yes someone broke into our house wanting to rape her. Yes my father did stuff to her. Yes Ashmore was messing with her but I don't have knowledge how far that went with him. Yes church members did stuff to her at a number different churches. Yes Donny abused her I saw some of it. Yes Wayne Eury and Angela Eury in San Antonio abused her. They were mean she didn't ask for that. Yes Di Francescio abused her. Yes Olson abused her and so did many more abused her.
A few things that bother me. One she didn't tell all details that makes me question some of the details. Two she opened herself to the abuse. Three she is wrong going public; these people aren't abusing her now. Four why would you volunteer to be her sister and brother believe me it is no picnic. She has nothing to offer no one. She is so unintelligent and hard to understand or follow her train of thought. Spend a week with her in your home and you will want her out of your life for good. When we were growing up I use to think she was the okay but not having much friends I didn't see how annoying she can be for real. When you have to have her repeat her words or ask what she is trying to say in an email or explain every little thing it gets tiring. I have reached a point where I want to be with my kind and people of my intelligence not her low level of life. Do you know she doesn't have a career or job? Just because she volunteers over a 80 hours a month and wants to help the world that doesn't make her a successful person. If you really desire to claim her I think you are some strange people. As for me I am glad to release myself from the burden of having to be her family. Disabled people are such a waste and with everything that has happened to her she will always have scars that are burdensome to others for life.
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| Johnny and Julie St. Clair Children Whose Innocence Was Stolen Away Do you still doubt Julie's existence? Since Joan St. Clair lied about even having a daughter, can you now see Joan St.Clair lied? Do not trust her. |
I wish you the best. Enjoy life and your marriage instead. Don't miss out on the moments. I have been married 20 plus years and don't want to miss any moments worrying about others especially burdensome disabled people they aren't worth anyone's time.
Don and Ange say,
John, thank you for verifying that Julie was abused. Your statements accurately portray everything Julie has shared about both her 'home life' and suffering from strangers and 'church' leaders. We hope you can pray and ask God to forgive you for not doing more to help Julie. We know you were taught wrong as a child; but now that you are a man it is time to put away childish things and false doctrine. We hope you can obtain not only forgiveness from God, Who gives it willingly, and forgiveness from Julie, who gives it willingly; but also that you will be able to forgive yourself. We will all be praying for you.
For those of you out there that think that she should not go public with this information, why would you want this information to be squelched? Keeping quiet about this type of sexually deviant behavior is equivalent to ignoring it and allowing it to continue.
John, thank you for verifying that Julie was abused. Your statements accurately portray everything Julie has shared about both her 'home life' and suffering from strangers and 'church' leaders. We hope you can pray and ask God to forgive you for not doing more to help Julie. We know you were taught wrong as a child; but now that you are a man it is time to put away childish things and false doctrine. We hope you can obtain not only forgiveness from God, Who gives it willingly, and forgiveness from Julie, who gives it willingly; but also that you will be able to forgive yourself. We will all be praying for you.
Julie, I know what you have shared has not been easy. I know it is difficult to share personal details of such things. What you went through was so horrific and you were completely undeserving of any of this. You have been brave, honest and you are very intelligent. Don't let anyone ever tell you otherwise. You are speaking for so many people not just in this perverted organization but in many cults around the world. So many people keep this stuff inside for their entire lives and never find peace or healing. You are strong and you are doing what is necessary to keep this from happening again. You can only do so much but you have brought awareness to what has been hidden inside of the ntcc for many years. You were a victim, a child raised by very perverted parents, that used you for their own gratification and passed you around to others as if you were an object created for their pleasure. Nobody in the world deserves to grow up like that. You have been extremely brave to share your testimony publicly.
For those of you out there that think that she should not go public with this information, why would you want this information to be squelched? Keeping quiet about this type of sexually deviant behavior is equivalent to ignoring it and allowing it to continue.
May God have mercy on your souls.
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83 comments:
John I can't completely fault you for your line of thinking because you were raised by the same 'parents' as Julie. Ralph and Joan are some very sick people and I know that's hard to hear when it's your parents. I hope you will examine some of the things you have shared and search your heart. Julie looked up to you as a protector when she was being raised by monsters, and she said that you cared enough about her to sleep in the same room to make sure nobody would hurt her.
It's hard to read how you feel about her. We do not have any way of contacting you to verify if you really wrote this or if someone else did. We are going by your word and we do appreciate the fact that you have validated what Julie has shared and will be sharing in the future. If this is you, she is your sister, flesh and blood. I can't imagine what you went through as a child, to make you feel the way that you do, but I'm not going to hate you because of it. I only know that the same people that abused and violated your sister, raised you. I hope you didn't have to suffer some of the things that she did and maybe that's why you don't want it to be public. I hate what you went through and I hate what your parents did to Julie. Do you think that if this goes public on national TV, that it will ever happen again? It will save other people from having to go through it. Julie is not a stupid freak, she is an intelligent woman with a disability that is not her fault, who had to go through so many painful and wrong experiences when she should have had loving parents that would help her and love her. She is not speaking out to embarrass you, nor should you feel embarrassed by her courage to help others. If you do not wish this to happen to others, than you need to pray this one through and allow her to speak. Her voice needs to be heard and she has definitely earned the right to speak out.
Confession: When I first read this comment, I was SO ANGRY!
Don patiently waited for me to express myself as I read through John's comment, line by line, retorting with angry knee-jerk reactions to what I was reading.
Then I prayed. I asked God to help me write a blog post the way He would want it written. And God changed my heart. He helped me see some things I had overlooked in my anger.
* John St. Clair grew up in this messed-up abusive household and cult environment where special needs people are treated as a liability.
*It's possible that John sees his own failure as a brother to protect his sister. And rather than deal with it, has transformed his feelings of guilt^^ into anger against Julie. ^^That's if he feels guilt, which may or may not be appropriate or healthy. As a child, what could he have done? As an adult he must first work through the false doctrines and learn what is right, wrong, normal and not normal... So he might need to learn too, as Julie did, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable behavior in every arena - family, church, sex, what's abuse, what is not,...
* Julie has been receiving tons of pressure from many sources to keep quiet. It is likely that John too has been receiving the same pressure from the same sources.
Most of all, in my first reaction, I failed to remember the Words of Life in the Bible:
For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God. [Jas 1:20 KJV]
A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. [Jhn 13:34 KJV]
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you. [Jhn 15:12 KJV]
Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. [Gal 6:1 KJV]
If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. ... [Part of 1John 5:16 KJV]
Oh wow. Don and I did not know the other one was leaving a comment. How funny. Said almost exactly the same thing. Great minds.
Wow. I have to say I hadn't considered that until I read Don's comment. It's possible that John too was sexually abused. That would explain a lot.
If you have been abused, that was not your fault.
The shame belongs to the people who do bad things to children, and to the people who allow others to do bad things to children.
If you were abused, you do not have to feel ashamed. That was not your fault.
I'm glad finally Johnny or John finally came forward because for the longest time I was thinking about an incident that happened in St. Louis.
I remember Joanralph saying that they didn't allow Julie to be alone with her brother! We just stood there kind of wondering about this statement. Not sure why the so called "parents" would say something so stupid to people around.
What would a person think when you hear something like that?
This is just so sad because John feels that this should be behind closed doors and not be aired in public and Julie wants to warn people.
Yes, it's embarrassing to have Your family affairs on the public arena but this is more then a family problem! It involves people who are entrusted with lives of men and women and their children! These are supposed to be spiritual people not rapists, abusers of mankind!
Anonymous said,
I remember Joanralph saying that they didn't allow Julie to be alone with her brother! We just stood there kind of wondering about this statement. Not sure why the so called "parents" would say something so stupid to people around.
What would a person think when you hear something like that?
DNA say,
That makes us think it is possible that John St. Clair also raped or molested his sister Julie. But we don't know.
It also makes us think anyone hearing such a thing should call Child Protective Services and report suspicions of child abuse.
The authorities can take it from there.
Yes it is embarrassing John. However, had ntcc followed through on reporting sex offenders Julie probably have not said anything. Julie has such a big heart. I wonder if Kekel or Davis would have simply just given an apology different things might have been. Even the Amish have had to go to the police due to no repentant sex offenders.
Rape and sexual abuse is not about sex. It is a tool used to murder the spirit . In a sense, the perpetrator can murder the victim without getting their hands dirty.These men who allegedly abused her did not enter a rehabilitation program. Rape is a violent crime, why do you think during war it is used as a weapon.
In the 1950s the public had an archaic way of thinking of sex crimes. In this new wave of generation x and millennials we know better. Olson by law, should have reported and in my mind he is worse than the perpetrators. Even in Ntcc, it is taught that Christians should obey the law. Why is this case any different? She went to the church, and the church failed to do its job. So what should she have done? What does the Bible say? How has ntcc handled rumors about the lives of this in or out of fellowship? Julie is just following their example.
Don and Ange's way may have not been the most delicate way of handling this issue, but they did more than Ntcc. Would you rather had it come through the way of the back door by the DA or FBI?
Just like Joe Paterno's legacy was marred, so was Davis's
I don't believe John wrote the said statements.
don't want to miss any moments worrying about others especially burdensome disabled people they aren't worth anyone's time.
Is that bilical, is that what the bible teaches? Who is the creator of the disabled people??? Are they not made in the image of God too, just as you??
You shall love thy neighbor as thyself - I know you read the NTCC-Bible - Kekels version...
Our opinion is that John wrote the statements; because there are details that we have not made public and things that we did not know about.
If John did not write the comment, whoever did would be guilty of lying. That would also have to be a deeply troubled soul. One thing is certain. God knows EVERYTHING.
There is something that has been stuck in my craw for a while and it's time to get it out. Not sure how many people this will offend, but I don't care. Everyone is entitled to their opinion so hear me out on this one.
I know for a fact that a lot of folks that have been commenting on the subject of Julie have been purposely avoiding the word rape or forced to have sex with. Other's may think that it doesn't matter whether it was rape or whether it was mutual, but I think it does matter. Rape is a physical and violent action that is forced on someone against their will. In the ntcc, the force might be spiritually perverted using twisted scriptures to make people think they are doing what God wants them to do. It's still not something that the victim wants. When children are raped they are being introduced to a perverted form of sex that is not normal. When a person uses their position of trust to obtain sexual gratification through a child they are destroying that childs future and they are forcing them to participate in something that they have no right to force them into.
There have been many accounts of children being forced to have sex with their adult family members and this is nothing more than incestual rape. If the parent rapes the child (boy or girl) so much that the child thinks that this is normal, and then makes the child a sex object by giving access to other adults, and that child grows up knowing only what they have been taught. Even if the unwilling participant develops sexual feelings towards their abuser it's still a horrible experience for them and they have to live with it for the rest of their lives. Boys that are forced to have sex with adult males start out not understanding what it is all about but it messes them up and even though they might be sexually stimulated during the occurrence it does not make them a willing participant and it does not lessen the damage done by the abusive predator that made them commit those acts.
I believe that any act of forced sex committed by the ntcc leadership should be prosecuted as a violent crime towards children. Young kids aren't asking to grow up in a sex ring to be passed around by adults.
DNA say,
That makes us think it is possible that John St. Clair also raped or molested his sister Julie. But we don't know.
Julie has spoken about things over the years that sounded like molestation/inappropriate to me by a number of different people. I question her parents and leadership about it but it was always explained away. How she was treated by some even leaders' wives was odd?
Now reading her life and her explain she didn't know it was wrong that her father had sex with her makes me now believe these people back then were doing things to her. It also makes me believe she still might now know that some of the things that happened to her were sexual so it might take her time to get all out as she figures out what truly is okay and what someone can do or not do to a child. This might be hard for some to understand but I get it. To think every time someone went to the leadership or her parents about her she suffered kills my heart.
Don and Ange said...If John did not write the comment, whoever did would be guilty of lying. That would also have to be a deeply troubled soul.
If someone is lying what do they have to gain or loose?
You shall love thy neighbor as thyself - I know you read the NTCC-Bible - Kekels version...
I personally don't read anyone's bible nor do I think the bible is real. Someone created bibles so people can feel guilt tripped into thinking there is someone upstairs that controls the world. I live my life my own way and finally my life is all about me. I love it this way.
Anonymous said,
If someone is lying what do they have to gain or loose?
DNA say,
Good question. Why don't we all think about that.
Disabled people are such a waste and with everything that has happened to her she will always have scars that are burdensome to others for life.
Oh really John, brother of Julie, what about Nick Vujicic? Have you ever heard about him? He is handicapped no arms no legs, but greatly used by God. He had the right parents that helped him and did not abuse him. Parents that encouraged him. He is even married and has children of his own. Go figure!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Vujicic
You shall love thy neighbor as thyself - I know you read the NTCC-Bible - Kekels version... I personally don't read anyone's bible nor do I think the bible is real. Someone created bibles so people can feel guilt tripped into thinking there is someone upstairs that controls the world. I live my life my own way and finally my life is all about me. I love it this way.
DNA say,
That is sad. No wonder you have such strange ideas. Of course, God made us free moral agents. So it is your choice whether or not to serve Him. At least you are not a hypocrite.
Unfortunately I think John after becoming grown marrying and being separate from his sister heard a lot of lies about his sister instead of going to her talking about them with her. He pushed her aside forgetting the person he knew her to be. Julie is a very loving gentle soul this is just always been her nature. I don't think Julie could ever been cruel to anyone. One thing I remember about her is that she was always for the truth even if it got her in trouble she would refuse to lie. When it starting going around that she was suppose to be a liar it is what finally made me walk out of NTCC because I knew Julie would not lie for anyone it didn't add up. Now I know.
That makes us think it is possible that John St. Clair also raped or molested his sister Julie. But we don't know.
I do believe it did happen because of things I heard back in the day though I am not sure Julie realizes what happened was not her fault in this case as well as it was wrong.
Don and Ange said...
There is something that has been stuck in my craw for a while and it's time to get it out. Not sure how many people this will offend, but I don't care. Everyone is entitled to their opinion so hear me out on this one.
I know for a fact that a lot of folks that have been commenting on the subject of Julie have been purposely avoiding the word rape or forced to have sex with. Other's may think that it doesn't matter whether it was rape or whether it was mutual, but I think it does matter. Rape is a physical and violent action that is forced on someone against their will. In the ntcc, the force might be spiritually perverted using twisted scriptures to make people think they are doing what God wants them to do. It's still not something that the victim wants. When children are raped they are being introduced to a perverted form of sex that is not normal. When a person uses their position of trust to obtain sexual gratification through a child they are destroying that childs future and they are forcing them to participate in something that they have no right to force them into.
Thank you so much for bring this up. I have wanted to say something but this hard to get people to understand when they throw what happened like it isn't an important point to make it is a real slap in the face to what happened to me.
I WAS RAPED OVER AND OVER AGAIN
I never did it willing, never wanted it, and didn't find fun in being raped at all. The wounds when deep and when anyone makes light it is like pouring a bottle salt into those wounds. Don't pick at the scabs of anyone that has been raped it prolongs the healing process.
Hugs,
Julie
Sexual abuse is so sick. It is demonic.
God gave sex to be a blessing:
So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. - Gen 1:27 KJV
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, ... [part of] - Gen 1:28 KJV
So what does the devil do? He tries to pervert what God gave.
A physical body might respond to deviant sex. The flesh likes what it likes. The spirit and soul, however, can be in torment even though the flesh may not be. What does this mean?
A person who has sex forced on them may be spiritually or mentally troubled by the wrongness of the situation even though the fleshly body may not seem to be bothered by it. For instance, a young boy may become sexually aroused by his own mother touching him inappropriately. His mind knows what is right and wrong and he suffers mentally, but the flesh is responding the way it was made without regard for right or wrong.
This psychological damage can cause problems for years. Even once the child grows and enters normal relations with a spouse, the soul can still struggle with negative associations caused by the first sexual encounters being with inappropriate parties.
God and time can heal these things. Counseling can help the prior victims understand the dynamics of what happened and give the person tools to empower themselves and overcome the past.
Request: If you are quoting someone, could you please use "quote marks" so we know where their comment starts and stops, and where your comment stops and starts? Thanks. It just makes it easier to understand who said what.
We have no way of knowing for sure who makes any of the comments that are left on this blog. For the most part we publish whatever comments that people leave as long as they are not disparaging people who we believe to be victims of ntcc abuse. We get a lot of graphically disturbing comments that we feel do not contribute to this blog and take it in a direction that we do not wish for it to go. This particular blog post was done after we received the comment left by John who claims to be Julie's Brother. I have no reason to doubt that it's John though others might be skeptical. Speaking with Julie, she says that only a small number of people know the details that John shared. The list is really small, so unless Joan or someone really close to the family knows all of the details, than I have no reason to doubt that it is John.
We also used the word alleged in our post just in case it was someone trying to manipulate this blog for whatever reason. We have no way of contacting John to see if he wants to own this comment but if it is him and he doesn't object then perhaps he might have a bit more to say. If it isn't him then he is more than welcome to come on and let us know. If he would like to contact us or Julie and shed some light on this, he is more than welcome to.
Like I said, he has given us no reason to believe that it's not him. If it isn't him than it becomes an even bigger scandal because it means that someone privy to all the details is lying about their identity. Could it be Kekel, or Olson perhaps? Maybe Joan or Ralph? I understand skepticism, and we sometimes have some ourselves but we take the word of those who comment unless we have a good reason not to believe them. When Julie first came to us we asked her a lot of tough questions and we found that her testimony was consistent. Since we have posted her testimony we have learned that Joan admitted to Ralphs sexual deviance and others have also verified much of her testimony. The most damning part of this whole thing is that the ntcc leaders involved are not denying any of this.
Another thing that strikes me as being very suspicious is that John and his wife both took down their facebook pages immediately. We feel that we are doing the right thing and we actually pray for a lot of the people that contribute to this blog. Does that mean we are perfect and that it is possible that we got this wrong? No, we are definitely not perfect and we could have it wrong. We just don't have the resources to verify the identity of everyone that publishes a comment on our blog. We feel that all of the details will eventually come out and that's the main goal.
How many people must hurt someone before people say hey this isn't right? Is anyone going to stand up and by this girl no matter the weather?
The way some of people acted in recent years towards Julie I am not surprised this has come out on this blog.
Are the St. Clairs(Jr) back at the ntcc?
Julie don't hold back your whole story must come out. Your voice is needed. I pray you can bare the burden of speaking of it all.
I would be surprised if John and Joan got together to speak out. Joan is one creepy individual her poor children had no true parents growing up. It was terrible how the family would treat Julie. How can they call themselves parents?
D&A said...
Another thing that strikes me as being very suspicious is that John and his wife both took down their facebook pages immediately.
Chief asked...
Immediately after what? I'm just curious. It would answer some questions in my mind if I knew the time frame you are referring to. A lot of times, if you put all these clues together, you can come up with a fairly logical answer. I don't doubt at all that Julie was sexually abused. The question is, by how many and who were all the people involved? This whole thing stinks to high heaven. It has massive corruption written all over it.
Having said that, I already knew that Olson, Kinson, Ashmore, Kekel and RWD were extremely corrupt. This whole story about Julie just points to their corruption extending to somewhat of an even higher degree if that were even possible.
NTCC people, NTCC people, NTCC people!!! How long will you ignore the obvious? How long will you remain in your slumber? How long with you willfully remain blind to your leaders devious acts?
If you allow yourselves to remain under the leadership of Mike Kekel you can't possibly be too concerned about doing God's will and or making it to heaven. You can't willfully follow a bunch of crooks and God at the same time. Whatever. You won't see me answering to those creeps anymore, you can be certain of that. Blind leading the blind. False prophets.
person who are pending an investigation are at times instructed to limit their social media.
Chief,
That was in response to a comment that Vic made a little earlier. We have been getting tons of spam and derogatory comments that are not conducive to what we are trying to accomplish on this blog. We have both been very busy doing a lot of stuff that doesn't involve this blog today and we didn't publish his comment right away. We did go ahead and publish it, but it's probably up higher on the in progression.
We are not wanting this blog to turn into a platform for debate about stuff we have little control over. We feel we are doing the right thing and if it turns out that we are wrong, it wont be the first time and probably wont be the last time either.
Vic, your suspicions might very well be right, and in time we will probably find out. We definitely want correct information to be published. The problem with running a blog is that people are not always on the same sheet of music. We feel that although there were grammatical errors that might not be consistent with John's level of education, the subject matter seemed to be consistent with everything we know, and Julie says that while she is not 100% sure, her gut says it seems to be him.
It's all good as far as we are concerned. I don't always agree with everyone and I'm sure there are many that don't agree with me. We are not wanting to get off course and fight with people that we consider to be friends. If anyone wants to discuss this further with me, please contact us through email or facebook and we'll discuss it further.
John St. Clair Carly and their son are NOT in NTCC.
We need to stick to what is most important there a girl that was raped more than once and no one protected. We now know the truth of her life. She needs are support it takes a long time for victims of this amount of trauma to fully recover. Julie has done very well but is still healing. Positive remarks towares the victim goes a long way. Lets keep her and all victims going. Keep the negative focused on the bad guys and gals not the victims. Negative towares the victim can cause them to think they don't deserve better treatment from others. I thank God for the blog.
Julie I feel for you. With everthing you have been through some days have got to be tougher than others. Let me offer you a return on the hugs you give others. Remember God has your back and thanks to those willing to follow his leading your life is speaking.
May all that have been abused know someone is praying for you today. God send your love in whatever form needed to each one
It might well be that John doesn't want bad publicity since I think does work in a good job. At least that is what Ralph said one time. I remember his wife posted in the mountain news lots of info concerning jobs and schooling. She was studying to get her degree in accounting and he was working into getting his own company going.
Maybe that is why they don't want to deal with Julie.
Maybe he just needs time to sort it all out.
Sexual abuse is such a taboo with many.
People tend to acusse the victim.
They don't understand.
I hope Julie doesn't grieve over her brother's comment.
Hopefully he'll come through this and help her someway somehow.
God I speak against any pain of the heart that Julie might be feeling. I pray that she feeling peace and comfort from you Lord. She is God's child so satan I speak against any attack on her mind that would make her feel unloved or alone. In Jesus Name Amen.
To all victims of abuse:
1. GOD LOVES YOU AS YOU ARE FOREVER.
2. IT WASN'T YOUR FAULT. NOTHING YOU DID CAUSED THE ABUSE.
Hugs,
Julie
One theory that someone has suggested is that John's wife wrote it for him. The person that suggested this said that his wife used to post stuff for him on facebook and that it was consistent with her writing. Julie also shared that she thought it could be a collaboration of Joan and John's. Either way John seems to have something to do with it. He is welcome to clear things up, whatever the case may be.
Chief said:
"NTCC people, NTCC people, NTCC people!!! How long will you ignore the obvious? How long will you remain in your slumber? How long with you willfully remain blind to your leaders devious acts?"
DNA say:
That is the 64 thousand dollar question. Chief, as you pointed out earlier, there are enough reasons to leave the ntcc even if this whole thing about Julie, Lisa or Pam never came up. The stuff that is coming out now verifies much of what you have been blogging about for years. The ntcc is run by a bunch of really sick people who are getting rich off of the people they have swindled and along the way they have abused a lot of people.
Many of our friends and brothers have moved on, and that's great. I really mean that. I know X ministers that were in for years that are now leading successful lives and providing well for their families. Life is much better without the ntcc in it. It's a little disconcerting at times, however when folks seem to disconnect from those who are still suffering. It's amazing to me how much power a cult holds over peoples lives and how hard it is to penetrate that grip they have on folks. It's like they have caused so many people to over ride their brains so that they live in complete contrast with reality.
People in cults will acknowledge wrong but refuse to do the right thing. You could say to a cult member, "Your life is in danger, the person you are following has murdered many people, you need to get out." The cult member would say, "He is following God, and you are just trying to rip me out of God's grasp". They will literally walk into a slaughter house like a bunch of cows that have no idea they are being herded towards their death. They will spend their years following some self proclaimed elder or apostle and they will never wake up or give themselves a chance to live a full life.
They sure do need to wake up out of their slumber and you have to wonder what it will take. If they drug the general board off to a Federal Penitentiary would that be enough or would they continue to claim a bunch of outward man made holiness rules and still feel obligated to give their money to whatever huckster is left behind to take over the ntcc. My mind just can't figure this out.
Anonymous wrote:
"God I speak against any pain of the heart that Julie might be feeling. I pray that she feeling peace and comfort from you Lord. She is God's child so satan I speak against any attack on her mind that would make her feel unloved or alone. In Jesus Name Amen."
powerful.
Anonymous said...
"It might well be that John doesn't want bad publicity since I think does work in a good job. At least that is what Ralph said one time. I remember his wife posted in the mountain news lots of info concerning jobs and schooling. She was studying to get her degree in accounting and he was working into getting his own company going.
Maybe that is why they don't want to deal with Julie."
"This has a lot to do with it. John doesn't have his own company but works for a quite well known company which he holds a high position in it. He feels Julie is only thinking of herself and not of others that this may effect with her talking publicly. He wish she would handle it in a more private matter. I hope one day he can be at peace with who his sister is that in her own way she has a job to do even if hers carries what some would think is a bad title.
I think Julie is the type that would rather help people then have a special title career or money. I see her if she ever wins a lawsuit using it to help many people. I don't know her only know John but from what I read on the blog this is just what I see in Julie."
Anonymous said...
May all that have been abused know someone is praying for you today. God send your love in whatever form needed to each one
Chief said...
I don't want anyone to get mad at for what I'm about to write.
Here is the problem surrounding much of this is the spiritual attitude that so many take vs a logical and tangible approach. Praying for people is great but going to the police or authorities or warning people about these NTCC crooks is what you should do.
Read these scriptures:
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
And that my friends is the problem with 99% of all modern day Christians. All they do is pray and hope but the don't take ACTION. God didn't make us stupid without the ability make things happen. That's why these blogs exist. God doesn't expect you to stand idly by and not say or do anything to protect people from these NTCC scoundrels. Go to the police, warn people in your communities to stay away from the NTCC. I got so sick of hearing religious NTCC folks telling people, "We are praying for you brother or sister", when what the brother or sister really needed was TANGIBLE help!!!
You want to know how to help people like Julie? Do what you can to get the NTCC doors shut never to open again once and for all. Got people like Kekel and St. Clair shut down for good so they can never harm someone like Julie ever again.
When NTCC people call me asking for advise or answers, the first thing I tell them to do is leave the NTCC and get on with their lives. I tell NTCC women to do everything they can to find a job and car so they are no longer enslaved by their abusive dead beat husbands and pastors which is often the case. They will say, "Chief, I'm broke and the car we have is broke and my husband's not making progress". I don't tell them I'm praying for them. I tell them to go find a job whether their husband likes it or not. Are you going to be broke your whole life waiting for a quote blessing from the Lord? God ain't going to just drop money out of a tree when you have the means to earn it yourself. I believe God helps but I also believe he expects us to take action without doubt.
I could be wrong but I'll tell you what might make people like Julie feel a lot better. To see creeps like Kekel and St. Clair in a position where they can't ever hurt anyone ever again. If you really care about NTCC people you'll do more than pray for them. Jas 2:16 You'll get involved so these NTCC crooks will get shut down. Tell them what you know. If you know NTCC people, warn them to keep their families away from Kekel, Ashmore and St. Clair. Tell them where all their tithe money is going and how it's being spent.
This is not meant to be a boast but I know for a fact that there are many people who are now living wonderful prosperous lives outside the NTCC because of my blog who weren't when they were in the NTCC. Prayer is great but if you "really" care, pray and get involve by speaking out against these NTCC creeps by warning people about the serious dangers that threaten people who are still a part of the NTCC.
Chief - good points. Too many people want to pray only. Faith without works is dead. The advice for women is good too. Make sure they start a bank account in their own name only too. Did you know it is empowering to have money? It gives you instant power, confidence, ability. The same thing with having nice things. It makes you feel good. That's why the borg wants you broke all the time. When you have no money, you feel broken. It makes you dependent. The org loves to see you trodden and down in the mud. Put on your happy face for church, but make sure you don't own anything and especially never anything nicer than what they have. The are serving mammon. They don't care about your soul. You are just there for them to use, suck dry, and discard. If you don't believe it, look around you. Who has anything? How did they get it? And don't be thoughtless and try to spiritualize and mystify everything. Get real. How did those folks like kekel - who was broke - suddenly become filthy stinking rich? The borg took all that tithe money, all the money that was supposedly going into local church escrow accounts, and sent it all to Washington so the Grahamites could roll in the dough. God did not create you to be exploited and used. Get some Godly backbone and self-respect and cut these leeches off of the body of Christ and learn how good it feels to know that God loves YOU.
Dear John Saint Claire,
I know you did not ask to be thrown into this horrendous dialog. Your sister Julie has suffered in silence, for many years. No one to turn to, and nowhere to go. Her biological "parents," the "leaders" of this cult, and various other men, sexually assaulted her for nearly 20 years. She tried to tell the people around her, but instead of helping her, they went to these "leaders," and the leaders silenced her, and discredited her. They kept her ignorant, fearful, and thought that they could control her. But, they were mistaken.
The sexual abuse, the physical abuse, and the mental abuse, all took a toll on her. Finally, she got away, she was thrown out, divorced, her reputation was slandered and her "parents" denied her existence.
Julie hung onto the one and only thing that was there for her all along, and that was her faith. .
Years past, and slowly Julie began to cope with her life. Her knowledge of life, and God continued to grow. She discovered the internet, and began to reconnect with others who the cult "leaders" had also thrown out, or run off. Multitudes of former members of this group finally woke up to the corruption, and rumors of the perversion of the "leaders," and thier hypocrisy. But this awakening has taken many years.
Finally, in 2013, after years of being used, and abused, Julie began to realize that the abuse that she suffered as a youth, was NOT HER FAULT, and that it was perverted, and immoral.
Julie wanted to share her story, and turned to Don and Ange, and for the first time in her life, she had someone who would listen. DnA didn't mock her, or ridicule her, or turn her over to the corrupt leaders of this cult. They patiently listened, and questioned her in order to get the whole story.
With Julies permission, DnA, began to publish Julies testimony. Suggestions were made to contact authorities in the various States where these crimes were commited.
Unfortunately, the statutes of limitations for these crimes have prevented justice to be swiftly rendered upon the corrupt, and defiled "leaders" of this cult.
It is the publicity of this blog, and news publications, that has begun to shine the light of truth upon these evil "leaders."
In recent weeks, many more people have begun to leave the NTCC, and have found their freedom, because of the witness of Julie, and her friends. There are many good churches around the world, who are doing the will of God, and living by His word. Doing good works, helping lost souls, helping the least of these.
I have know both Julie, and John for over 30 years. I wish that I could have known, and had been able to do something, long ago. But like many other members, I drank the kool-aid, and I closed my eyes to the obvious corruption. I was ignorant, and blinded. I was guilty of participating in the shiraide.
Our love, and devotion to Christ, had been co-opted, and hijacked by manipulators, and conmen. I regret this. But this experience has made me more determined than anything else in life, to do what I can to see justice rendered for Julie, and the other victims of these crimes. Our Church, doesn't belong to these corrupt "leaders," it belongs to Christ, and to His people! It belongs to us, and it's time we took it back!
"Who, is on The Lord's side?"
John, tell your story, Julies story. We love you, and will be there for you. We are family. We have each other, and we have God, that is all we need. Stand with her, and she will stand with you. The lives you save, will be many. The life you save, may be your own.
Julie my prayers are with you and all who have escaped Ntcc. I was a memer for ten years. I was Ntcc all the way!!! I really got to know the Lord there. At first i didnt want to leave thinking i was walking out of the will of God. My life has been so much better . God has blessed me so much and provided . He is really an awesome God!!
We are here to bring awareness to the ntcc and it's abusive leaders and the barbaric actions they have taken against others. We feel that the ntcc leadership is desperate right now, because the truth is coming out and too many people know this. I know there are a lot of folks out there that will think what I'm about to say is overboard, but we want to go on record, (public record) to warn the ntcc leaders not to take desperate actions against any of the victims or families that have come forward thus far. If any of the St. Clair Family or their extended families are hurt or removed (killed) or disappear to cover up the sins of the ntcc leadership, you will not get away with it. We are saying this publicly so that if any thing happens there will be an investigation into the ntcc.
We don't put anything past this group. There are too many stories of other cult leaders and members trying to off people to avoid getting exposed for their sins. It's really all about money. If this gets enough publicity or if charges are eventually brought against Kekel and other leaders of the ntcc, they will not only lose their fortunes, but they will most likely go to prison. I can't see Olson or Kekel going to prison; although they would probably put guns to their own heads before they do that. There you have it. As outlandish and unlikely as it may seem we are going to publicly point out this possibility in hopes that it will deter the ntcc leaders from doing anything stupid.
If anyone close to this situation gets threatened or harmed in anyway, please report it to police. Another very effective way to deal with the threat of violence is to go public. Let as many people know as you can and use the media to your advantage.
John St. Clair,
We are not accusing you of anything and we are not trying to hurt you in any way. As was pointed out earlier in a previous comment, Julie suffered many years of abuse at the hands of church leaders who were getting rich. We know that your parents did some horrible things to Julie, and we can't imagine how difficult it was for either of you to be raised by them. The letter that was written and that we posted was very hard to read. In this letter it was shared that you were the author. If you didn't write this letter, it is hard for us to understand why you wouldn't just come out and deny writing it. I know I would if it were written about me and I didn't write it or have anything to do with writing it. If you did write it, we are not here to judge you but we would really like to help you if that is possible. We feel like everything that happened to you as a minor was not your fault. The ntcc has a history of manipulating people and forcing them into situations that are not right. I'm sure you didn't ask to be raised in that group. Many have suffered and we are trying to put an end to them causing any more suffering in the future.
Right now I don't care if you wrote the letter. I know some of the things in it were harsh towards Julie, and if you said them, I'm sure she forgives you and we definitely do not hold them against you. We feel that whatever happened was the fault of Ralph and Joan as adults and they need to be held accountable, so that these things won't happen to others in the future. Again if you didn't write this letter, we see no reason for you to not come out and deny writing it. We published it because we thought that you wrote it and we still think that. We only hope that you would consider what Julie has been through and realize that she is doing what she feels is necessary to not only find healing for her own deep scars but to help others realize that there is hope and healing for them also.
You people think it is so wrong that I didn't share with people that I had a daughter. Well first I was trying to protect the work of God. Secondly if I shared that I had a daughter people would want to know things about her which would mean I would have had to give-up her sins.
The difference between Julie and Grant is Julie has done worse things then Grant. Grant is young but Julie is older there is no excuse for her sinful life.
She must turn her life back to God. God can not use her or her life until she is where he wants her to be doing what he wants her to do. He can't speak through her until her heart is clean.
John says "She is so unintelligent and hard to understand or follow her train of thought."
Your parents fault and NTCC fault and not Julies fault!
John said "I have reached a point where I want to be with my kind and people of my intelligence not her low level of life."
How selfish of you and that is biblical Christianity???
What is wrong with Julie having cerebral palsy? I saw them pray for her over and over. Man her mother dragged her up front for prayer so much. Mrs. St. Clair would say they had to pray for different portions of Julie's healing since Julie kept sinning she kept loosing portions of her healing and they would have to start all over again. It seemed so confusing I always wondered about it all.
Anonymous said,
"Mrs. St. Clair would say they had to pray for different portions of Julie's healing since Julie kept sinning she kept loosing portions of her healing and they would have to start all over again."
DNA say,
Men may teach that doctrine. But it seems unbiblical to us.
Anonymous said...
John says "She is so unintelligent and hard to understand or follow her train of thought."
DNA say,
Usually the one having a hard time keeping up or understanding is the one who is unintelligent. Perhaps the person who wrote that is slow?
John you have a sister that has a heart of love and when you are ready to talk to Julie I know that she will be there. Think God has given disabled people a special gift to love and care about others. They generally have better then able-body people. Julie is a special gift that I think we can all learn from her Godly character.
I have to admit I spend a lot of time being angry at all she has been through then I read of her love, compassion, and forgiveness then once again it melts my heart. I find it interesting she can sort through people see the ones that are just plain evil and those that may just be miss guided.
God thank you for what you do through your children. May Julie's story open the eyes of other current victims or their parents to file charges and get out of this evil place. God I love the life I have now.
Ange said...
Confession: When I first read this comment, I was SO ANGRY!
Then I prayed. I asked God to help me write a blog post the way He would want it written. And God changed my heart. He helped me see some things I had overlooked in my anger.
Anonymous said.....
Well I guess I am not as good as you are Ange because I am still very very angry that her family would treat her this way especially her parents. I have never met Julie so I can't answer to how she talks or moves but I am wondering what is so wrong with having a disabled family member? Is there something about Julie I am missing?
Anonymous said...
"You people think it is so wrong that I didn't share with people that I had a daughter. Well first I was trying to protect the work of God. Secondly if I shared that I had a daughter people would want to know things about her which would mean I would have had to give-up her sins."
Anon said...
"Yes I do think it is wrong. If someone asked me how my daughter is doing who is still at home. I answered then I follow up but I am missing my son who is away at college. It is my way of letting people know I have two kids not just one. Why in the world would you have to tell everything she has done wrong just because someone finds out you have a daughter it doesn't make sense to me? What sins? How does the mention of her destroy the "work of God" as you call it? This is another thing that doesn't make sense."
Anonymous said..."I have to admit I spend a lot of time being angry at all she has been through then I read of her love, compassion, and forgiveness then once again it melts my heart. I find it interesting she can sort through people see the ones that are just plain evil and those that may just be miss guided."
"How God does it through Julie I don't understand? Her gentleness shocks me but I know only Jesus could do that."
I believe healing is still for us today. I also believe Julie walks with God. Why doesn't God heal Julie?
The difference between Julie and Grant is Julie has done worse things then Grant. Grant is young but Julie is older there is no excuse for her sinful life.
What in the world is that suppose to mean?
Mrs. St. Clair is now admitting she denied Julie? Wow I could never deny my kids or even fail to mention I have a daughter. I am grateful for my boys and my girl.
What is NTCC problem? Why is Mr. St. Clair still behind the pulpit? He lost his license so that already admits wrong. I was surprised when they reinstated it. No one had an answer including his wife as to why they gave it back to him.
scores of children have left ntcc for "sin" and it has been no big deal for their parents to claim them. try again on that excuse mrs st clair!
God never needs protection;but children do.
The weakest parts of the body are due the best care... isn't that the test? Looks like many people failed God's test of compassion with their contempt.. for Julie who now with grace offers her "hugs" . Shame shame NTCC & minions!
Anonymous asked...
Why is Mr. St. Clair still behind the pulpit?
Chief said...
Because they are a bunch of sex fiend crooks who cover for each other. No more no less. Because RWD and Kekel have been guilty of the same things and no doubt St. Clair knew it as is evidenced by Julie's story. They all had sex with Julie so how could they have kept his license revoked? It's all pretty simple. They are all a bunch people involved in the same sex scandal living in a glass house. They are all in it together. None of them can throw stones at the other. St. Clair probably let them know that also. Who is going to tell St. Clair he can't have one of their stinking churches any longer? Kekel? Nope! Olson? Nope, he works for Kekel! RWD? He's dead and not only that he had messed with Julie also! I can't believe anyone is still in the NTCC.
Well yes I can. NTCC people by nature aren't very rational. I certainly wasn't when I was in the NTCC. They are not very logical. They willfully overlook stuff because they've been brainwashed into doing so. Well, St. Clair passed Julie around like a plate of freshly baked cookies and the NTCC leadership ate her up, so they can't tell St. Clair a single thing. If any of you Army Soldiers up in Washington read this blog, please warn the Soldiers in St. Clairs church. Go to the post Chaplain and do your best to get that church placed off limits to all Soldiers in the area. It's being ran by a sick dude and his sicko wife. These are some warped folks who have no business behind a pulpit.
Chief
We just found out that the Tillicum church is no longer a Servicemens Home. They still have church in the same building and I'm not sure what they did with the Servicemen but according to Julie, when Ralph took over that church they discontinued the Servicemens home. She did add that they now hold children's Sunday School in one of the rooms she was raped in.
I've never heard that healing doctrine the stclaires put Julie through.
Then all those people right now that are in ntcc including the young man son if dfranciaco is sinning? Because I remember many taking Prozac and antidepressants and diabetes and heart pills my goodness!
What's about Olson son in law. I remember he wrote on chiefs blog about his illness.
Joan is trying to blame Julie for her illness so irrational just like Jeff stated.
It's horrific that Ralph is back in tillicum's rape and abuse chamber!
Can things get worse?
She did add that they now hold children's Sunday School in one of the rooms she was raped in.
that whole place should have met a wrecking ball after Julie being raped there. how awful.
You people think it is so wrong that I didn't share with people that I had a daughter. Well first I was trying to protect the work of God.
The work of God??? That is the question if you really do the work of God???? You are in the wrong church filled with ______________ you can fill in the blank. Maybe that's your own imagination.
The difference between Julie and Grant is Julie has done worse things then Grant.
Are we talking about Grant???? We are talking about you father and mother!!!! About your responsibility toward your daughter before God!!!
Do not prostitute thy daughter, to cause her to be a whore; lest the land fall to whoredom, and the land become full of wickedness.
Leviticus 19:29
We are talking about you father and mother and your incest practices!!!
We are talking about your responsibility as Pastor before men and God!!!
Oh yeah but Pastor Davis gave me his blessing for my incest!!! Where is that in accordance with the bible????
God can not use her or her life until she is where he wants her to be doing what he wants her to do.
Who are you to determine who can be used by God and who not??? Are you God????
until she is where he wants her to be doing what he wants her to do..
Are you kidding me??? Are y o u and again y o u doing what God wants you do to and have you done what God wanted you to do in your past?
Why do you have sex with your daughter father - this is totally against scripture!! Why do you beat and torture your daughter because of irrelevant matters that are mentioned by some people.
Your daugther knocks on the door and wants to tell you father, that someone from the leaders is on the phone. She knocks and you say come in and then later you beat her up - to me you are a devil and not a father!!
Or if the room was not cleaned on time after the nursery you beat your daughter up mother - to me you are a demonic and do not display the fruit of the Spirit!
John said,
"I don't believe anything wicked should ever be in the news"
DNA say,
Well, then, John, what you want is not called the NEWS. What you want is called:
FAIRY TALES
John said,
"I believe this type of stuff should be discussed with a counselor or a professional not among the public or every day people."
DNA say,
RAPE is a CRIME
INCEST is A CRIME
CRIMES are reported to educate and warn the public and every day people so they know to
PROTECT their CHILDREN.
BTW
CHILD ENDANGERMENT is also a CRIME
there is no excuse for her sinful life.
There is no excuse for your sinful life father and mother of Julie!!!
There is no excuse for having sex with your daughter father Clair!! Would Jesus do it??
Julie was just following your example that you gave her????
You did not protect your daughter against this evil leaders.
How stupid must you be to let Davis bring your daugther to bed in the night or evening when he started to touch her breasts...and later on in life her vagina!
Are you so stupid???
Davis - Man of God? To me Man of Evil, maybe he has the father as the devil - as Jesus said to the Pharisees!!
I wish you good luck in following him and his deeds!
ASSAULT is a CRIME
John said,
"Yes she suffered at the hands of Davis but he is dead."
DNA say,
Thank you for confirming that Julie "suffered at the hands of Davis".
davis' death does not excuse his criminal behavior.
davis shaped and molded the NTCC CULTure.
olson testified davis IS the organization.
davis dogma and davis doctrine pervades the NTCC to such a degree that people got vasectomies to please him, pay a tenth of all their increase to the org to please him, quit their jobs to please him, relocate on his whim to please him.
This abuse of power by davis carried over into the current NTCC CULTure that teaches the same level of obedience to man that it supplants and supersedes obedience to God. davis and the NTCC created a CULTure of idolatrous obedience to men.
And the women and children like Julie suffer because of it.
He can't speak through her until her heart is clean.
Point the finger at yourself father and mother of Julie. Is your heart clean from your incest with your daughter, father Clair???
Is your heart clean father and mother of Julie from overbeating your daugther Julie??
Grant Kekel has never ever in his life received this kind of terrible upbringing that you gave your daugther. His parents hardly ever beated Grant!
They gave him everything you can dream of!!
Oh and by the way he probably has sex also though he is not married - think about it!!! Maybe he is changing his girls too!
Julie kept sinning she kept loosing portions of her healing and they would have to start all over again.
That is so unbiblical mother Clair, where do you find that in the Bible? Is that the Davis Version?? My goodness you people do not read the Bible that is your own imagination and not the word of God!!
Not everybody gets healed look at Joni Eareckson - what a great testimony for Christ Jesus! Mother Clair you should be thankful - Joni Eareckson can't walk, can't stand, can't use her hands - and your daughter can walk, can stand and can use her hands. What else do you want??
Father and mother of Julie you got it all mixed up in your brain through that wrong teaching of the church you are in. Davis, Kekel all what they say and think has priority before the Bible and that is so wrong!
Anonymous said..... Well I guess I am not as good as you are Ange because I am still very very angry that her family would treat her this way especially her parents.
Ange says,
Oh, I doubt that you are not as good as I am, and even doubt that I am all that good. ;-) Without God, I am nothing. I am human. As a human I too am very troubled by what has happened to Julie. I do get angry. Not all anger is wrong. There is a good anger, a righteous indignation such as God stating He is angry with the wicked every day. That is fine. Let's look at that and at what God defines as wicked:
[Psa 7:11 KJV] 11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry [with the wicked] every day.
[Lev 20:14, 17 KJV] 14 And if a man take a wife and her mother, it [is] wickedness: they shall be burnt with fire, both he and they; that there be no wickedness among you. ... 17 And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it [is] a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.
So we see certain things are wicked and as such make God Himself angry every day.
But the kind of anger that I first felt was the kind described in the bible verse I shared,
[Jas 1:20 KJV] 20 For the wrath of man worketh not the righteousness of God.
God tugged at my heart not to go there, so I prayed; and He helped me.
That doesn't mean that God Himself is not angry with the wicked. Nor does it mean we can never be angry.
It is God's prerogative to be angry with the wicked. It is also His plan to avenge those who have been wronged:
[2Th 1:6 KJV] 6 Seeing [it is] a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
[Rom 12:19 KJV] 19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but [rather] give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance [is] mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
For the righteous, there is much comfort in those verses. For the wicked and evil there is a warning. For the impenitent there is fear:
[Heb 10:26-30 KJV] 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
to be continued...
... continued
Sometimes God uses humans to execute His judgment. King Saul comes to mind, before he became the King of Israel:
[1Sa 11:5-7, 11-13 KJV] 5 And, behold, Saul came after the herd out of the field; and Saul said, What [aileth] the people that they weep? And they told him the tidings of the men of Jabesh. 6 And the Spirit of God came upon Saul when he heard those tidings, and his anger was kindled greatly. 7 And he took a yoke of oxen, and hewed them in pieces, and sent them throughout all the coasts of Israel by the hands of messengers, saying, Whosoever cometh not forth after Saul and after Samuel, so shall it be done unto his oxen. And the fear of the LORD fell on the people, and they came out with one consent. ... 11 And it was [so] on the morrow, that Saul put the people in three companies; and they came into the midst of the host in the morning watch, and slew the Ammonites until the heat of the day: and it came to pass, that they which remained were scattered, so that two of them were not left together. 12 And the people said unto Samuel, Who [is] he that said, Shall Saul reign over us? bring the men, that we may put them to death. 13 And Saul said, There shall not a man be put to death this day: for to day the LORD hath wrought salvation in Israel.
So we see God wrought salvation through a man, Saul. And how? God's Spirit came upon the man and his anger was kindled greatly.
Not all anger is wrong.
Anonymous said...
Oh this is what happened that day.... I was to take her to the motel
DNA say,
This comment by anonymous was on the thread: During Fall Conference 1992 Michael Kekel Raped Me At New Testament Christian Church National Campground Near Mexico, MO / Mark Twain Lake and Ralph St. Clair Raped Me At The Hotel
Thanks for your comment. If we didn't tell you already, your comment means a lot to us. We responded, but the response was the 201 comment, which isn't always easy to pull up, so it may not have been seen.
So here it is again. :o)
Do you remember what motel you took Julie to? Or even which town it was in? Thanks.
Does anyone know if there have been rumblings in the NTCC camp regarding these recent revelations?
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