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| Future Bible School Students being Groomed for Marriage Early |
Julie shares the Following Testimony:
Wow sometimes I don’t know which part of my life is the hardest to share for it seems like just one messing pile. This though I feel is an important one for I know how others might view without this information. I do not have even little detail but I will share what I do know. What led to my teen marriage in NTCC? Now first off I want to say if you had a teen marriage it was successful and lasted my hat goes off to you. What led to my marriage just wasn't right. Even at ten and eleven I knew I would be married young it was just a given as long as they found someone to do it. I was wearing high heels by the time I was 11 some when I was 10. I would twist my ankle and fall a lot. What were they thinking having a child one with cerebral palsy no less having her wear high heels. Oh I forgot they felt directed by God. What made someone think little girls wearing them was a good idea was crazy. I would have to wear them at school at times as everything I wore was chosen for me. Let’s see the children already had enough to make fun of me. This only added to the torment. They made fun of my cerebral palsy, the fact I couldn't keep up in school, the fact I couldn't walk normally, and how I dressed just to name a few. In fact “the retarded snail” or “the snail” is some of the names of the years. It wasn't surprising to me for it seemed to follow me even at home.
The next month I was told who I was going to date and eventually marry. September conference 1988 I don’t know what those that were there that year remember but this is what happened in my life. First I want to share something I only know little bit about. On the way to that conference my father walked over to Donny’s car at a rest stop and said I heard you asked about my daughter. Now I was the further thing from Donny’s mind that day so what got it into my father’s head to do that I do not know. Maybe someone else knows something on that one. My parents had me ride in another person’s car so I wasn't present for this conversation. From that point to getting to conference it was decided we would have our first talking for I just don’t see it as a date.
Monday night we were chaperoned after the evening service at a local restaurant. This is after he had to ask the leader’s permission. That was crazy to say the least. This went on each night of the conference including having to ask permission. I believe my parents put a lot of pressure on him to talk (date) me. He talked nice to me but why would my parents not go: "My daughter is 14 years old just so you know; I don’t want you dating her", I will never understand.
Girl in Leg Braces and Crutches Wears High Heels and a Dress. Video Link
As I got older my parents of trying to find me a spouse. I remember sitting a restaurant with my parents, Davis, and Verna; Davis was discussing me getting married. I was only 13 years old at this time. Davis made fun of the fact I still was not dating anyone yet….saying so no one wants you. I just looked at the ground and he just grunted and said “Even she is embarrassed of herself.” Then turned to my parents saying it made be hard to find someone willing to marry someone like her people just don’t want a handicap retard person as a wife. I sat there feeling so worthless and like I had failed somehow in life. I felt it was my fault I had cerebral palsy and that I was being a burden to those around me. I carried the feeling I was a burden for years.
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| Donny and Julie Both Had Cold Feet, But their Marriage Was Arranged By GAWD (Davis) The Grand Poobah of Match Making |
When they decided to poof my hair, one thing I remember about this moment; is it being said that me not having poofy hair was added to no man wanting me. I would be very upset if someone tried to fix up my child with an adult. I will never forget the day I had to start poofing my hair. I was 14 years old. I had already been wearing pantyhose and high heels since 11 years old. Tanya Kekel came over and took me up to the attic in the Lakewood house which was my room. She sat me down and without warning began poofing my hair. I began to cry for I didn't want the hair do. I was told I would get the belt if I didn't stop and go forward with a willing attitude. I feared who would be giving it so I numbed the pain away. (My father or Kekel)
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| At an Early Age Debbie Johnson Kinson Shows Some Leg Before the Camera. At This Time the Girls were Swooning Over "The Hot Rock Star" Vic Johanson as an Eligible Bachelor. |
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| Though Other Girls Were Swooning, Edna Got The Prize, And They Are Still Married Today |
The next month I was told who I was going to date and eventually marry. September conference 1988 I don’t know what those that were there that year remember but this is what happened in my life. First I want to share something I only know little bit about. On the way to that conference my father walked over to Donny’s car at a rest stop and said I heard you asked about my daughter. Now I was the further thing from Donny’s mind that day so what got it into my father’s head to do that I do not know. Maybe someone else knows something on that one. My parents had me ride in another person’s car so I wasn't present for this conversation. From that point to getting to conference it was decided we would have our first talking for I just don’t see it as a date.
Monday night we were chaperoned after the evening service at a local restaurant. This is after he had to ask the leader’s permission. That was crazy to say the least. This went on each night of the conference including having to ask permission. I believe my parents put a lot of pressure on him to talk (date) me. He talked nice to me but why would my parents not go: "My daughter is 14 years old just so you know; I don’t want you dating her", I will never understand.
Donny didn't know how old I was at this time just from talking with me that I grew up most of my life in the group. We went back to Washington and since my parents went to Thursday night services at Graham. This is where we began to talk on what many know as the wall. He would have to ask permission from one of the leaders then go ask my father and my mother would say some stuff to him. Then we would sit and talk. It was a circus to even talk to me. This continued until He graduated from bible school the following year in which he left for San Antonio Texas. We began to write long distance. This was crazy as well for my mother had to both help read as well as write him back. We also talked on the phone with all calls being listened too. What craziness.
I don’t know all the details of this next moment but at the end of ’89 he decided he wanted to end and not marry such a young person. Not sure how Davis got wind of it but he did. Davis flew out to San Antonio and told Donny he couldn't end this he had to go through with it. People if that isn't control I don’t know what is.
The next year I turned 16. In the spring conference Donny proposal to me at a restaurant after church. The proposal was so crazy. He went to propose to me. My father wouldn't even let him do it the way he wanted and ended up making a scene in my opinion. Donny ended up doing it as my father wanted. (I look back on all this thinking this man had to deal with so much)
After this conference we went back to writing and talking on the phone. It began to be tossed about when we would get married by everyone but us. I wanted to go back to school and graduate even told my parents this many of times. So put on the face and go on with life. Then there came the talk of me not getting married until after I turned 17 and then there was talk of me spending some time in the dorm going to bible school. Then it went back to no we were getting married in my 17th year. So what happened next I wouldn't have accepted in a million years yet it isn't a surprised?
Fall conference of 1990 now that was beyond insane in my opinion. My parents and I came in from Washington to Missouri. I had a few new outfits which I was excited about at the time. My mother was acting strange like she had something on her mind but didn't share what she knew. We went to Monday blasting and put down session afterwards we went over to the talking building (fellowship hall to some) Davis walked up to me and said you are getting married Friday. You need to go get your license tomorrow. I stood shocked no one had ever said anything to me about this happening at this point. At first I thought maybe Donny had made plans I was unaware of but it just didn't add up that it would be the case with him. The next day my parents, Donny, and I went down to the court house I begged my father while I stood in the doorway of my parents room to let me wait I didn’t want to do it at this point. I didn't have my dress with me there were people I wanted to be there. Even though I didn't have the words I was trying to say I didn’t have the emotional ability to do this. My father wouldn't hear of it. He told me I could marry or the street would be my home since I was not allowed to stay at home anymore.
We were at a servicemen’s home and Davis wanted my parents to go to another one but this time without me. I felt so lost at that time but I knew I must not let people know how I feel so the brave I am happy face went on. My parents signed the marriage papers agreeing to have their 16 year old to get married. We scrambled to try to decide what I was to wear. Finally realizing that my clothes would just have to do. My mother in all the scrambling made a comment, “I was going to bring your dress but there wasn't room.” Light bulb goes on….why would she bring the dress? Did she know about this already? Asked her but no real answer until later. Yes she knew here it was my life she was dealing with. If I was old enough to marry….why wasn't it my chose to how and when it happened? Later she admitted that she knew before we ever came to conference. Why was it a secret? So many whys for me.
We began to continue to figure out what I had to take with me; for my parents would be first heading back to Washington before the next work and I was heading to San Antonio with my husband. It was insane the poor man (Donny) was not given any warning that he would be taking a bride home. He had used all his money to fix the car to get to conference and he had guys with him helping to pay the way to and from conference. They were left to scramble to get a ride home. We had to borrow money to just get from conference home to Texas. He wasn't even give time to be ready for me to even come to Texas. Then the day before the big day. I was so full of emotions not able to share with those around me the worse thoughts and feelings going through me for I was to be excited to get married.
I had never lived life at all. I mean simple things like my hair was NEVER done by me. It was always done by my mother or whoever else was available. Who was going to do it now? How was I going to manage the little things….but who cares it was like ready or not here marriage comes. I had no basic skills to function in life. People barked orders and I followed. Every little thing was controlled in my life. Most part I had to have permission to go to the bathroom so being throw into marriage was to swim without lessons excepted not to drown.
The next morning came. I was to be married. My parents were there and my brother too. I wasn't allowed to have anyone that I would choose to be there. Who was there was of Davis’ choosing mostly board members and their families. At least those that had not left already. That day I was nervous for the unknown. Donny or I knew hardly knew each other. I was a child lacking so much knowledge and led to believe a lot of things that weren't true. I was filled with emotional baggage. This is what Donny got handed with, "Congratulations on your marriage that you have no notice of and have no knowledge of the person you are marrying". Now there may be some details I am have forgotten to put in and some of the details only he would know but here is what led to me being married at 16 years old just a few months shy of my 17th birthday.
55 comments:
Yeah, I remember all that swooning. Mike Kekel, my future BS roommate, came to me and let me know that his 13 year old flame Tanya Davis' 12 year old friend Debbie Johnson "liked" me and that I should start talking to her. I was 22 or 23. There was no way I was going to look at any pudgy 12 year old in serious terms, so I told him I wasn't inclined to follow up. He pressed me on it--"come on, brother, just talk to her"--but I stood firm and she ended up getting matched up with a more compliant target: my other future roommate, Phil Kinson.
This is a good juncture to reiterate the fact that both of them, while we were all living together, boasted to me and John Sutter about how they were making out with and groping their teenaged future wives. We were both horrified, and tried to remonstrate with them by observing that that kind of thing wasn't appropriate for Christians, much less ministers, but they got in our faces and made it clear that they intended to persevere. John got so convicted over the whole thing that a few days later he went to RW and told him. Mike freaked out when John told him that he had narked him out. He said "Great! There goes my ministry!," But nothing really came of it--RW got up in church and made some vanilla statement about how people needed to quit playing footsies under the table, like nothing serious was going on, and the lust train kept chugging right along. It came out years later that RW secretly permitted Mike and Tanya, Phil and Debbie, and some others to go on double dates unchaperoned. It's been reported that some of those outings were pretty steamy. Maybe that's were these makeout sessions occurred; they didn't specify when they were talking about it (probably because no one was supposed to know that they were allowed to go on these dates unchaperoned).
Man, what a trip! Looking back it seems unbelievable that this was our world and that we couldn't see how dysfunctional and crazy it was.
I do apologize for those silly "inspections" and public humiliation - posting them on the bulletin board- twas just another of the learned "mind control" tactics of the Nazis and their "reporting" (gossip) structure. The Bible calls it "lies in hypocrisies". So much hanky panky there "Aint Misbehavin" -- i think not!
I'm in an arranged marriage also. No, they didn't kidnap me to another state and spring the news on me a few days in advance, but Edna and I were matched up just as much as Julie and Donny were.
It started when I was graduating from BS, in the summer of 1983. RW's agents started dropping Edna's name in my ear. She had been there about a year, so if I had had any interest in her, there was plenty of time for it to manifest itself. But a celibate young man about to embark on his ministry is in a particularly suggestible frame of mind, and their scheme had its intended effect. Others worked on Edna. She was still married at the time. Occasionally, her estranged husband (and father of her child) would pass through and visit. RW called Edna into his office and asked her point blank whether they had sex when he was there. She reminded him that he was still her husband. At this time, she wanted to do the biblical thing and forgive him and reconcile. But RW asked her "How long will you be a martyr to a marriage?," and persuaded her to ditch him. I didn't find out about that until long after we left the cult. Others started in on her about me and Mark Ransom (they also warned me that I better hurry up or Mark might snatch her first). So we started "talking."
Back then, there was no "wall." We could talk after church in one of the classrooms that was used for fellowship at Forest Ave, but the couples weren't segregated out like they would be later. When RW was in town, he and the other "leaders" would sometimes chaperon us to a Denny's or Perkins. We would get to sit at our own tables, but always under their eyes. We started talking around June. A couple months later, she asked me "when are we going to get married?" Now I was trying to get up the gumption to ask her anyway, so in a way it was a relief, but later Edna told me that RW called her over and told her "go over and ask him when you're getting married." This guy just imposed himself on the lives of unsuspecting people in an obscene way. I stuttered a minute and said "how about December?" and she said OK. That was it. After a few weeks Edna asked if we could move it up, so we ended up getting married Sept. 16. I would estimate that up until that time, we had probably had less than 20 hours of actual conversation. I was working as a cameraman in a print shop in downtown St. Louis, making $5 an hour. She made $6 and change at a Indeeco, but of course she quit working when we got married. I did manage to get a 50 cent raise. I found a dump on Texas Ave that was $165 a month. I ran around town and bought a refrigerator and a bed. The landlord sold me a stove. I was still setting the place up the day we got married. The only time we had ever been alone together was when they let us go down and get our marriage license.
Our wedding took place on a weeknight at 10PM, after final exams (Edna was still in school). It was the first wedding in the new Holly Hills building; RW was out of town and Olson did the ceremony in front of the student body. I have exactly one photo of this life changing event, and it's just an informal snapshot. I don't know who took it, or who the other guy in the photo is (looks like maybe Dennis Watson). The next morning, I got up and went to work. About a week later, we hosted a family in our shabby flat during conference. A few weeks after that, we packed up all our stuff and moved to Fairbanks to "pioneer a work." Here I was--new husband, new father, heading up the road to start a church in a city in interior Alaska in the winter, with no job waiting for me. We had a car and $2,500. What the hell were these bozos thinking? Even in the Old Testament, a soldier who was newly wed was required to take a year off. I rolled the car about 180 miles from Fairbanks, but somehow we survived in spite of the parasitic drain NTCC imposed. But neither of us were in any fashion prepared for the roles we were filling.
We didn't know anything about each other when we got married, as would be expected under those circumstances. The more we found out, the clearer it became that our personalities, tastes, interests, worldviews, and life experiences are about 180 degrees out. Now we've been married 30 years. We have that much in common at least, but it's not like we'll ever be soul mates. She has her friends; I have mine. The things that attract me leave her cold. It is what it is; I keep telling myself the glass is half full, but that doesn't change the fact that both of us were deprived of one of the most important choices a person can make.
NTCC sucks, and its leaders are corrupt manipulators and lying charlatans. If I had realized that earlier, I wouldn't have succumbed to their predation. But like many others, I ignorantly suffered them to ravage my life for many years. The only thing that keeps me from being bitter is that I defeated them in the end, and life is too short for them to take another minute of mine away. The time I spend denouncing them is therapeutic and will hopefully help others to avoid being similarly used.
What a circus. Knowing many of the horror stories of prearranged Marriages in the ntcc, I'm glad we got married three years ago instead of twenty three years ago. We probably would have gone into the ministry and ruined quite a few lives and ended up destroying our relationship and ruining our kids lives if we had any.
Julie, I can't imagine going through what you went through. Donny also. It's like a recipe for failure. It's like you said, "Instant adult, just add marriage license". What a disaster. People are just objects to R-dub. He doesn't care what the consequences of his actions are, he just makes really bad decisions and people get hurt. No skin off of his back.
Vic, it's amazing that you lived through all that. Sending someone to Fairbanks in the winter time is almost a death sentence. It's amazing that people still believe that the sun rises and sets on R-dubs butt. They worship the ground he walks on, and still live for his approval. Kekel looks like the new heir apparent and already seems to be sitting on the ntcc throne. According to the new bylaws, he is the final authority on everything. Kekel seems ill equipped to handle this new position, and definitely can't imagine him garnering the same amount of respect and loyalty that RWD had.
The ntcc is a sinking ship and most of the sincere people who made it real have left or are struggling to fit in. In a few years, I can see Mike and Tanya following the footsteps of Jim and Tammy Faye. We are already seeing full scale compromise of all the original Davis standards. If you do just a little bit of surfing on Facebook or Twitter you will see things that you wouldn't have imagined twenty years ago.
You would really have to do a quite a makeover on God, to make people believe that the things that Davis has done are representative of any form of Christianity that even closely resembles the truth.
To be accurate, I was the one who wanted to go to Fairbanks. RW called us into a room a week or two after graduation and told us that we'd been trained and it was time for us to go "dig out a work." We were to "get ahold of God" and tell him in two days where "God was sending us." So none of us got the voice of a trumpet; we just desperately did our best to discern the "will of God" in the next two days. I had to have an answer, Alaska came to mind, so I was persuaded that "God" told me. That's how they condition your mind so that later they can just say "you told us God was sending you" and wash their hands of any disasters. My main point was that no responsible leadership would have ever got behind that ill advised venture (although I'm here now, so I guess it wasn't a total waste.
Darwin, I do remember those stupid inspections. What a bunch of ocd control freaks. It was probably worse to have to do them than to get them.
Most of the testimony that we hear is that Davis will tell someone to pray about going somewhere and after agonizing for two days they tell Davis that they feel the Lord wants them to go to Ohio. And Davis will reply, No God doesn't want you to go to Ohio because He told me that He needs you in some hell hole in Alabama. Most everyone I've heard up until now always gets sent far away from where they want. At least that's just the ones that we remember sharing on line.
We used to have a dream sheet in the Army of the different places we wanted to go, and very seldom did anyone get to go where they wanted. They would say if you wanted to go somewhere than choose a place far away from where you want to go and you'd have a better chance of winding up where you wanted to go.
You probably threw Ole R-dub for a loop, asking him to go to Fairbanks Alaska. He probably thought it's gotta be God because nobody in their right mind would want to go there. I remember Reed wanted to Pastor a church in Washington, but Davis didn't want him close to his family so he got sent to Guam. You can't make this stuff up.
Julie said:
"They made fun of my cerebral palsy, the fact I couldn't keep up in school, the fact I couldn't walk normally, and how I dressed just to name a few. In fact “the retarded snail” or “the snail” is some of the names of the years."
DNA said:
People are really cruel and this kind of thing happens to much in the world, but you would never expect it in Christianity.
Davis said:
"it made be hard to find someone willing to marry someone like her people just don’t want a handicap retard person as a wife."
This is a very sick statement coming from a very sick and twisted individual. People can be mean and nasty but you would never expect that to come from a leader of a Christian organization.
We see how abnormal and disgusting this cult is, but because we were in it, and we accepted many of it's practices and got familiar with the routine, we didn't look at how awful and horrible it really was. We were trained to think like the leaders of this cult and it seems like they did a pretty good job of keeping people silent about their experiences in the ntcc.
Any one who thinks that they are 'touching God's annointed' by warning others about this cult, needs to do a serious bible study on what those scriptures were talking about. First of all there was no question that Saul was anointed by God. Davis had a history of adultery and predatorial behavior dating back as far as anyone knows in the ntcc. I have serious doubts as to Davis ever being a Christian let alone, anointed by God. But assuming that Davis was anointed by God, nobody has caused him any physical harm. David told Saul, "Wickedness proceedeth from the wicked". Saul was wicked and David shared many of his thoughts about those who pursued him including Saul.
People are more loyal to Davis to the extent that they will bow down to him and ignore all of the testimonies of his victims and they will ignore all of the double standards and they will ignore his hypocrisy. They will ignore the people Davis has hurt, they will ignore the people Davis has run off and they will ignore the pain caused by Davis in their own hearts. The abused will defend the abuser to the point of not caring about any harm done or about those who will be harmed in the future. Some will even expend time and energy fighting against those who speak out against him. You think Davis cares? Do you think Kekel cares. None of them care about you, and they never did. They cared about your money and what you could do for them and how they could use you, and that's it.
False teachers often feel that they are above criticism.
The message on that video, "Touch not mine anointed", was basically the same as it is here. They are warning people to stay away from Creflo Dollar and Eddie Long because of all the scandals. Those Dudes are just like Davis, and the guys in that video are warning others to stay away from them, they are not touching them or causing any physical harm, but they are trying to keep others from being harmed.
These cult leaders try to make you think that if you disagree with them, you are disagreeing with God, but they are the ones that teaching false doctrine. Isn't it amazing how they can make a living off of criticizing people, and then the few people that speak out against them are railed against with the touch not mine anointed scripture.
Whoever found that video, good find. That sums it up pretty good.
Yes even when I left 3+ years ago they were still giving from Graham and from conferences 2 days for people to "Get ahold of Gawd" and let Davis the "Man(not) of God" know.
People who got married to a minister always had to go straight to Graham immediately but for whatever reason since I had tweens & young teens Danny boy was told to settle in Phx for a little while first. Then BOOM some time later, Davis told Dan what are you waiting for? Get her up to WA so boom - up and gone. You know he really thinks he's Hitler or something getting to tell everyone what to do and when - he's just a real piece of fecal matter if you ask me.
It just kills me to think of all the lives he's done this to such as Julie's. I still can't get how he can sleep each night knowing he's facing his judgment day and probably pretty soon!
It makes me very sad to read Julie and Vic's experiences. I married an NTCC preacher who later decided to leave and pursue the person he had always wanted to marry all along, but was told by NTCC leadership he couldn't. He couldn't be "unequally yolked" to a woman who refused to join NTCC so he pretended to be someone he wasn't. Pretending and facade can only last so long until it is replaced by anger and hatred and regret.
RW Davis owes me $27,000 for what it has cost me to get divorced from Glenn. I lost all those years to someone who decided over a decade later, oh by the way, I never loved you and I wished I would have married someone else.
If he wants control over who gets married he should be fully responsible for all the legal and attorney fees for all the horrible fall outs.
R.W. Davis is a piece of garbage. Complete trash. RWD owes all of us a whole lot but crooked church leaders are in most cases above the law as RWD knows oh too well.
RWD is the scum of the earth, the bottom of the bucket, the lowest of low, the dregs left in the bottom of a cheap bottle of beer, the mold scraped off a loaf of blue cheese and the stinky butt left over from a cigarette smoked by an old crusty dude with really bad breath. RWD is dirt and so is Kekel.
Dang Chief, that's a little mild--you're slipping. Of course it is hard to express the utter waste of oxygen these "leaders" constitute without scorching paint off the walls. But if I ever run into any of them I'll be sure and employ the most descriptive verbiage available.
Why don't you tell us how you really feel Chief. I agree with you on all accounts. There aren't enough adjectives in the English language to describe how low RWD is.
A lot of dirt is coming out about R-dub and the haters are starting to hate Julie and others for sharing the truth about Davis and others sick deeds. I'm not so sure that R-Dub is going to go to the grave in peace. Knowing the bible as well as he does and knowing the things he's done, the people he has hurt, those he has kicked in the ribs while they were down and out, it's all gotta be coming down heavy on him. In every thing he's preached to others about judgement and hell is lurking right around the corner for him. I know it seems like he has everything and all is well, but I bet he is one troubled dude, and as death draws nigh, I doubt he will be hearing any Angels singing or seeing any light at the end of the tunnel. He has used God as a gimmick to make money. He's hurt a lot of people along the way. He's used a lot of people along the way. I'm not judging him, but I will say that if you apply the standards he's preached to others, and you apply those same standards to him, he has about the same chance of going to heaven as Hitler does.
Yes RWD is a low down crook and the scum of the earth. Is it alright to say that? Sure it is, Jesus, didn't speak well of those who betrayed the ones He loved. It was alright for R-dub to say whatever he wanted to about others. He could get up behind the pulpit and bring women to tears by saying that they were the cause of their husbands failures because they were fat. He could say anything he wanted and judge anyone he wanted and he would receive a chorus of Amens.
He basically lives in shame now. None of his standards are being kept and quite frankly people are just waiting for him to kick the bucket so they can have wholesale compromise in their lives. I say that because that is what R-dub shared himself. He said that they would compromise, and now they are doing it in front of his eyes. He might not care about that as much as he used to, after all, he broke his own rules before anyone else broke them. What happened to, "I am the Lord, I change not". Oh yeah, that was in Malachi and that only applies to tithe. People do things in front of Davis that they would never have done 20 years ago.
If you go to their facebook pages they are fishing, boating, playing football in shorts, wearing jewelry, having cookouts and BBQ's, ice skating, wearing make-up, and doing things that normal people do. God must have changed quite a bit for all this to happen. Could it be that the ntcc is just a big scam, a ponzi scheme to make people like Kekel rich?
I was talking to one brother that was around in the 70's and he said that R-dub seen a bright light shining, and that God told him to cover his eyes, and that he spoke to Jesus face to face when he first got saved. He also rode on a plane with an angel. He said that the angel was sitting in a seat across from him the whole trip. The Brother said that Kekel bragged about having a similar experience where he seen a bright light from heaven while he was looking at playboy books. Oh, I hope the brother gets on and shares about this, because we were rolling on the floor holding our guts in laughing. We told him to share it on the ntcc news tab, where others have shared the visions and prophesies of Davis and other board members. Like Double D's recanting of Davis's vision of Christians being beheaded in the St. Louis Ram's stadium which was torn down years ago, and Bro. Derricks account of Olson saying how he seen a vision of the rapture and how that Davis was the first to leave the ground, followed by the members of the General board and then finally the rest of the church attending schlubs. So much for, "In a moment, in a twinkling of an eye".
Hopefully he'll share that, I got a big laugh out of that, because we all know how Davis would react if anyone else had a spiritual vision or if they said they seen an angel. Oh, My word, you just can't make this stuff up.
Vic Johanson said...
Yeah, I remember all that swooning. Mike Kekel, my future BS roommate, came to me and let me know that his 13 year old flame Tanya Davis' 12 year old friend Debbie Johnson "liked" me and that I should start talking to her. I was 22 or 23. There was no way I was going to look at any pudgy 12 year old in serious terms, so I told him I wasn't inclined to follow up. He pressed me on it--"come on, brother, just talk to her"--but I stood firm and she ended up getting matched up with a more compliant target: my other future roommate, Phil Kinson.
Vic I am glad you didn't take up dating a young girl.....
Vic I look at this and think besides just wanting to control the world; it was like they wanted as many other young girls married off so everyone would forget these two young girls getting married to older guys.
Also I think about many conversations I overheard about the children growing up in the organization. Davis would say it is best for the young girls to marry because if they are not married we will lose them by the time they are 18 or older. Why Davis? Did you realize the children saw the mixed in hogwash? Or the fact, that you, Davis would say that we can’t have women unmarried for it is too easy for them to leave or make up things about the leaders to gossip about. Well Davis all you scum bag so called leaders have given us plenty to talk about for your horrible words and actions are abundant.
Davis is despicable to allow such disgusting behavior to go on between older guys and children but on the other hand He probably thought, Kekel a man of my own kind; impure in every way, another one to make me sin not seem so bad.
Tanya has bragged of being allowed to French kiss Michael when they were dating saying “Our French-kiss is probably what made the rule no kissing on dates.”
I think rules change as it benefits a leader or their families. It was like when Tanya was going to school, girls graduating was fine until she graduated then it wasn’t necessary and a waste of time. Waste of time, why, so girls wouldn’t get smart and make men like you Davis eat their dust.
Hugs,
Julie
DD says….I do apologize for those silly "inspections" and public humiliation - posting them on the bulletin board- twas just another of the learned "mind control" tactics of the Nazis and their "reporting" (gossip) structure. The Bible calls it "lies in hypocrisies".
Julie said...
Those inspections were so dumb for sure. Now I was never on either end of them but I did listen to the leaders sit around talking of them at times. Davis talk about how people were not following his rules. It was always about his rules.
One time of the unfortunate times of being near where they were talking I got brought into the conversation. I must have had a shocked look at what was coming out of Davis about people. He turned to me and said do you think I am wrong? I immediately shook my head for fear gripped my heart at that moment. Then he said so what do you think about it? I didn’t want to answer but I knew better than not to respond. Trembling I said,” Maybe they were so busy or sick, I think it might hurt them seeing their name on the list. Sir. I was only speaking of what I had seen of couples going to bible school in being busy. I answered his question with such sincerity yet full of fear. I will never forget what he said next.
“When someone disobeys my rules, their feelings are no longer important” He said you young lady better never forget who’s in charge. You must obey me at all times. Even as I write this my heart is racing. He had such control over me.
Hugs,
Julie
Anonymous Vic Johanson said...
I'm in an arranged marriage also. No, they didn't kidnap me to another state and spring the news on me a few days in advance, but Edna and I were matched up just as much as Julie and Donny were.
Vic reading of what happened to you and Edna just brings me to tears yet it anger me inside. They ruin lives not caring the cost others pay in the middle of it.
Davis didn’t care what he was doing to your life or your wife’s life. It is so sick.
Though it anger me that it happened, I am grateful you shared this. I knew I wasn’t alone in it all but I need to know I really wasn’t alone. You don’t know how your honest of your life helps me.
To push your wife away from something she wanted to do. Making her ask about marriage. What freaking business was it of his to think he had a right to make decisions for you as adults? It is almost like his first marriage didn’t work because of his bullhead-ness so why should anyone else’s work out. It is like those people that don’t want others happy if they’re not.
Then have you treat her like the last item on the store shelf and you have to hurry and get it or life is over. Davis is a creep beyond creep. The more unhappy people he can create the more he doesn’t have to think of his sin.
Wow to be pushed to the point of only getting 20 hours of talking in before marriage makes one’s head shake. Then to have to push up your date like the world was going to end that is so wrong.
They don’t care what your finances are or if you will have a roof over your head as long as they are in control and getting their way the rest don’t even matter to them.
Making you marry at 10pm at night; why did they want to keep it a secret of how dumb their ways are? Not care whether you had pictures of this forced marriage. I am sure there wasn’t much choice in what she wore either.
Now there are people that get married quickly and even cheaply but it is by choice not demand. I mean we know that it say it somewhere in the bible you must marry who ever whenever, however he chooses…..what a bunch of hogwash that they think they have a right do all this.
Shack living so you can pay for bible school train ride to learn nothing more than how to be humiliated and how to humiliate others. No worthwhile information is given.
Then be told to pray to go into another situation in the blink of an eye which if it doesn’t work out financially don’t bother to call for you are going to be stuck for your lack of faith.
Hugs,
Julie
Vic Said....NTCC sucks, and its leaders are corrupt manipulators and lying charlatans. If I had realized that earlier, I wouldn't have succumbed to their predation. But like many others, I ignorantly suffered them to ravage my life for many years. The only thing that keeps me from being bitter is that I defeated them in the end, and life is too short for them to take another minute of mine away. The time I spend denouncing them is therapeutic and will hopefully help others to avoid being similarly used.
Yes NTCC does suck. It is horrible that they have been able to destroy so many lives.
Denouncing them is therapeutic and it does help others. Every voice helps me just a little more in my journey. I am so thankful for the comments each one does so much for me, so much.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA said...What a circus. Knowing many of the horror stories of prearranged Marriages in the ntcc, I'm glad we got married three years ago instead of twenty three years ago. We probably would have gone into the ministry and ruined quite a few lives and ended up destroying our relationship and ruining our kids lives if we had any.
Yes it is a circus. I was going to say before how blessed you both are that you didn't marry while in NTCC but I thought it would come out sounding wrong. You definitely got very blessed indeed.
I think of a house fire that has claimed a house. One will go through the rumble looking for anything that might have survived; that one hidden treasure you can hold onto, be it an item, a picture, and so on.
Being away from NTCC is much like that house fire one looks through the rumble trying to find that thing to hold onto that treasure from the mist of some very mess-up years. Sometimes in the rumble it is so hard to find that treasure but yet one looks trying to handle what has happened.
I personal treasure the friendships that I am starting to build and find from former NTCC people. These are something I thought would never happened but of course that is what they wanted me to believe. I am finding hope I never new was there.
Hugs,
Julie
Anonymous Vic Johanson said...
To be accurate, I was the one who wanted to go to Fairbanks. RW called us into a room a week or two after graduation and told us that we'd been trained and it was time for us to go "dig out a work." We were to "get ahold of God" and tell him in two days where "God was sending us." So none of us got the voice of a trumpet; we just desperately did our best to discern the "will of God" in the next two days. I had to have an answer, Alaska came to mind, so I was persuaded that "God" told me. That's how they condition your mind so that later they can just say "you told us God was sending you" and wash their hands of any disasters. My main point was that no responsible leadership would have ever got behind that ill advised venture (although I'm here now, so I guess it wasn't a total waste.
They way they taught about deciding where to go was just crap. They didn't care at what price they sent you as long as you went.
I think of the many shacks and such down places I lived in growing up just so the work of Davis could go on; for I think it not of God.
I am so thankful to God somehow you survived to speak today on this blog.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA said...We used to have a dream sheet in the Army of the different places we wanted to go, and very seldom did anyone get to go where they wanted. They would say if you wanted to go somewhere than choose a place far away from where you want to go and you'd have a better chance of winding up where you wanted to go.
Yeah that dream sheet is how my parents ended up in Tillicum by the NTCC servicemen when my father was in the military. They had just come from Germany at this time. Moved into a place just down the street from NTCC.
DNA said...You probably threw Ole R-dub for a loop, asking him to go to Fairbanks Alaska. He probably thought it's gotta be God because nobody in their right mind would want to go there. I remember Reed wanted to Pastor a church in Washington, but Davis didn't want him close to his family so he got sent to Guam. You can't make this stuff up.
Yeah Vic you probably did throw Davis for a loop. I remember when someone would have concern about being sent somewhere else. He would say Oh just think of it like the military, sometimes you have to go where you are needed most. This would leave people feeling how can they not want to be where "God" needs them most. Such hogwash and a pile of crap.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA said....I remember Reed wanted to Pastor a church in Washington, but Davis didn't want him close to his family so he got sent to Guam. You can't make this stuff up.
I don't know what excuse he gave the Reeds but I know the verse he like to use over and over about people wanting to pastor near their family. It is so stupid.
Mark 6:4 "But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house."
Now if we are going take that word " country" I guess no one born in America can pastor in America......dumb insane leaders that simply don't want people's family to open their eyes to what is on the spoon being shoved down their throats.
Unless they think they will benefit from you being somewhere like my parents. They are back in Washington so they can be near the leaders because Tanya and Verna wanted my mother nearer to be available to sew for them. Yet my mother has family in Washington. Hello it is all about what they want plain and simple. So much more can be said there.
Hugs,
Julie
Davis said:
"it made be hard to find someone willing to marry someone like her people just don’t want a handicap retard person as a wife."
This is a very sick statement coming from a very sick and twisted individual. People can be mean and nasty but you would never expect that to come from a leader of a Christian organization.
I guess some wouldn't except it from a Christian organization but NTCC taught me to expect it and it except it from all. That with cerebral palsy I didn't have a right to dignity and respect. That I should except I was just garbage for all that is what I was worth. When I came on this blog it shocked me to find I was both respected and heard. That there are people out there that actually care and hate what NTCC has done to all just as much as I do. It leaves my head spinning.
Hugs,
Julie
Touch not mine annointed said...
False teachers often feel that they are above criticism.
This was a great video. Thanks to whoever made it known here.
Yes I do agree false teachers and such think they are above having criticism for their actions.
Hugs,
Julie
Kat said....
People who got married to a minister always had to go straight to Graham immediately but for whatever reason since I had tweens & young teens Danny boy was told to settle in Phx for a little while first. Then BOOM some time later, Davis told Dan what are you waiting for? Get her up to WA so boom - up and gone. You know he really thinks he's Hitler or something getting to tell everyone what to do and when - he's just a real piece of fecal matter if you ask me.
Julie says...
Yeah I remember being dragged to BS twice since I was married to a minster both times to that BS were such a joke. Those leaders were such jerks.
I am sure your opinion wasn't asked involved in going to the BS. I can only imagine what went through your boys' minds about it.
Hugs,
Julie
Nicole Estes said....RW Davis owes me $27,000 for what it has cost me to get divorced from Glenn. I lost all those years to someone who decided over a decade later, oh by the way, I never loved you and I wished I would have married someone else.
If he wants control over who gets married he should be fully responsible for all the legal and attorney fees for all the horrible fall outs.
Nicole your story just makes my heart ache for you. Those horrible leaders ruin lives and don't even care. I agree they owe you and a whole lot of other people so big bucks. The pain you suffered because of those idiots is horrible it shouldn't have happened. You didn't deserve that at all.
Thanks so much for sharing. I appreciate you come on here to comment.
Hugs,
Julie
Chief said...RWD is the scum of the earth, the bottom of the bucket, the lowest of low, the dregs left in the bottom of a cheap bottle of beer, the mold scraped off a loaf of blue cheese and the stinky butt left over from a cigarette smoked by an old crusty dude with really bad breath. RWD is dirt and so is Kekel.
You said it Chief....you come up with ways to describe what I couldn't do in a million years. Those so called leaders aren't worth the air they breath in the least.
Hugs,
Julie
I've personally heard RW give his account of "the angel of the Lord" speaking to him. He said he was in a house someplace praying one night, and the Lord spoke to him and told him to go outside and pray down in a field across a gully. He said he was afraid of snakes, but girded his loins and obeyed the voice. After he prayed awhile, he came back inside, and the Lord told him to close his eyes. He did that, and the room lit up with a bright light. The Lord allegedly told him something like "I have chosen you and anointed you...when you speak, I will speak." That's about all I remember, although there was more King Jamesish verbiage building him up as some awesome servant of the Lord. What a steaming pile of BS he fed us.
So I guess I shouldn't have been offended--it was really the Lord telling those dirty jokes up at the "minister's table" in the fellowship hall.
I also heard RW speak of angelic visitation. He said once he kept hearing this weeping. He looked all around and couldn't find the source, until this angel manifested itself and told him he was weeping because "no one--not even you--cares for lost souls." BooHoo, RW repented and we see all the good things he's done for souls since then.
I also remember him relating the fairy tale about the angel on the plane. And he told us that once when he was in the Philippines, someone walked in the back door of the church and said "Are you RW Davis?" and when he affirmed it,continued "Thus saith the Lord," and laid some prophecy on him and walked out. RW said he ran out after him and...NO ONE WAS THERE!!! It was just like some ghost story around the campfire. We all were in awe of the great privelege we had of acting as the doormat for a living apostle. But the reality must have been that he spent some time at home chugging Nyquil and cooking up yarns for gullible ex-GIs.
RW also told us of miraculous healings. He said one time a guy had just mangled his arm up--it was hanging by some tissue--and it was instantly restored. He said that while he was in the Philippines, a four year old boy that was born deaf was brought to him in a church service. He said that he prayed, but nothing happened. Then "the Lord" told him to spit on his fingers and stick them in the kid's ears. Still nothing happened. Then "the Lord" told him to take off his watch and hold it up to the kid's ear. When he did that, the kid's eyes got wide and he just screamed and could hear perfectly. Of course there was pandemonium. I'm really surprised he didn't tell us about the time he walked on water.
I guess the rule is that no one was allowed to ever see him DO any miracles; we could only listen to him bloviate about them.
LIAR!
Oh, there was one like the widow and the pot of oil, too. He was a poor evangelist, trying to get to his next revival. The tank was empty, but somehow the car just drove on and on until he got there, defying all known laws of physics. He should have called the EPA and commercialized this amazing phenomenon; it would have gotten him way richer than fleecing thousands of poor people.
I want to say something. Because of what I have experienced with this group it has caused me to have a great dislike for men and have absolutely no trust or respect for men at all. In fact I will leave a store if there is only a man to wait on me or to checkout me out at the register. I avoid them as much as I can in life for I view men as cruel disgusting horrible human beings. Unfortunately my distrust carries to both males and females.
This being said. You men that are getting on this blog owning your own words are showing me a different side of things. People can tell me all day long not all men are like the group but unless I see it in action it is hard to believe; when my belief has been so shattered to a million pieces. Being abused over and over by many men gave me no reason to think other men are different.
Please keep up the commenting it is helping this girl. You keep the comments coming and all of you may completely change my mind.
Hugs,
Julie
Vic said:
"I've personally heard RW give his account of "the angel of the Lord" speaking to him."
DNA said:
I wonder how many teenage girls he was fondling when he had that vision.
Vic said:
"The tank was empty, but somehow the car just drove on and on until he got there, defying all known laws of physics."
DNA said,
He was probably siphoning gas from the cars of the saints, while they were trying to get a hold of God in prayer after the service, by the time they got to their own oil puking junkers that were out of fuel, he was on his way to the next town.
Vic Johanson said...
I've personally heard RW give his account of "the angel of the Lord" speaking to him. .............. That's about all I remember, although there was more King Jamesish verbiage building him up as some awesome servant of the Lord. What a steaming pile of BS he fed us.
Kat Says: Yes - I remember some of the stories too and I remember the King James verbiage as well - its so sad that THEN we actually bought into that sounding like God! Really - God doesn't speak in King James!!! King James was the style of English for a certain time frame only! He is such an idiot! It's embarassing to think we used to faul for it but not so much because we were smart enough to leave! Jokes on him.
Also - Nicole, we completely hear you on RW owing for so much! That is really the only reason I'm not divorced yet is bc of the money!
For all of you who had arranged and practically forced marriages - I'm so sorry! I wasn't really forced but I was convinced practically. RW liked that I was a hard working idiot so he kept saying when are you getting married. My pastors wife kept saying you're going to be a pastors wife some day. Then someone introduced us and the borg kept saying stuff, and I just believed it was a God thing and that it was what I was supposed to do. I believed I'd grow to love him b/c I didn't really know him and I believed I was honoring what God wanted. Oh the things we fell for b/c we were convinced, brainwashed, beat down.
Thank God we are free! Thank God each person here that writes about their experience is using their voice and helping others!
My hugs and support go out to each one of you!!
Vic said..... He said he was afraid of snakes, but girded his loins and obeyed the voice.
girded his loins??? What was he back in the bible days???? Oh I see he was in the middle of having sex with someone he knew he shouldn't have so he was uncovered......maybe the angel told him his consequences to his actions that he would never be called because of his sin.......
so he called himself in rebellion against the Lord.
Hugs,
Julie
Vic said.....I guess the rule is that no one was allowed to ever see him DO any miracles; we could only listen to him bloviate about them.
Such hogwash!!!! This really pisses me off to the high heavens that he would claim such things when his life doesn't back it up.
He couldn't get me healed of my cerebral palsy. False statements were made about my healing then when people would ask what was wrong with me all of a sudden I had sin in my life and that is why I wasn't healed. So Davis what you Kekel, and Ashmore were saying is God kept giving and taking away my supposed healing over and over. So is God double minded or is it you keep getting caught in your own lies.
He prayed and people got healed... I so don't believe it and he wants to call other people a liar.
Davis just because you are guilty of something doesn't mean everyone else is guilty of it. I don't live in the gutter in my mind as you choose to do.
Hugs,
Julie
someone walked in the back door of the church and said "Are you RW Davis?" and when he affirmed it,continued "Thus saith the Lord," and laid some prophecy on him and walked out. RW said he ran out after him and...NO ONE WAS THERE!!! It was just like some ghost story around the campfire. We all were in awe of the great privelege we had of acting as the doormat for a living apostle.
Yeah Davis right...another one of your hogwash stories.
So if it disappeared like that then you think angel or ghost no matter which one they would already know his name no need to make sure it was really him.
Oh the absolute gall of this man.....liars liars and more liars. Such a mockery full of stupidity!
Hugs,
Julie
For all of you who had arranged and practically forced marriages - I'm so sorry! I wasn't really forced but I was convinced practically. RW liked that I was a hard working idiot so he kept saying when are you getting married. My pastors wife kept saying you're going to be a pastors wife some day. Then someone introduced us and the borg kept saying stuff, and I just believed it was a God thing and that it was what I was supposed to do. I believed I'd grow to love him b/c I didn't really know him and I believed I was honoring what God wanted. Oh the things we fell for b/c we were convinced, brainwashed, beat down.
Julie says....
Though it came in different ways. Many were forced into marriage whether it was by guilt, force, false this is of God statements, and so on. Still it lead many to marry wanting to please God in the way they were taught even if it meant to the wrong person. It was all so wrong for many men, women, and children paid the price for those false teachings and brain control they had.
Hugs,
Julie
Julie said:
"So if it disappeared like that then you think angel or ghost no matter which one they would already know his name no need to make sure it was really him."
DNA said:
Very good point Julie. This stuff has me in stitches. You can't make it up. Snakes, really? And then he spit on his fingers and stuck them in the kids ears, how sick is that? That would be enough to dampen any spirit. I wish we could send this out to every brainwashed ntcc member. I can't believe we were all so stupid to follow this idiot. I never heard any of this stuff until now, but I guess I would have believed it and sat in awe like everyone else.
Talk about the blind following the blind. Somewhere along the way Davis realized that there were a lot of religious suckers out there that could be easily exploited. He must have seen that there were a lot of fruits that were ripe for the pickin. Somewhere down the line in his sordid past, he seen how gullible Christians could be if they were young and eager to please. I have to question if he ever had an ounce of salvation.
DNA said... I never heard any of this stuff until now, but I guess I would have believed it and sat in awe like everyone else.
Talk about the blind following the blind. Somewhere along the way Davis realized that there were a lot of religious suckers out there that could be easily exploited. He must have seen that there were a lot of fruits that were ripe for the pickin. Somewhere down the line in his sordid past, he seen how gullible Christians could be if they were young and eager to please. I have to question if he ever had an ounce of salvation.
I heard these stories so many times it was crazy.....and to think someone would say I add to my stories to make them exciting and readable???? insane
Boy it has been a while since heard these stories and they are incredibly stupid.
Davis spoke of this when he used his spit in the boys ears because he had been shown how holy and power his spit was as God's anointed one.
Wow so what is he going to say next his crap is holy too that is why he must have a bathroom separate from others?
Hugs,
Julie
Julie said,
" they wanted as many other young girls married off " ...
Ange says, there are many reasons they wanted these young girls married off:
1) they control who marries the girls
2) while the husband who works for ntcc is at work, the perverts like davis are snaking their way into the young girls' houses and having sex with them
3) the grooms were chosen based on their loyalty to davis or past life of being sexual predators - birds of a feather
4) the young girls are locked into a life of slavery in the ntcc with no hope of escape
**they are young
** they are often only under-educated with merely some homeschooling and no high school diploma thereby rendering them
** unable to work, required by the mandate of man to be only a "keeper at home" leaving them "available" for the sexual predators like davis
It is a vicious cycle created by davis and enforced by his "good ole boy" network that hides and partakes of this sex ring.
That's my opinion based on the many testimonies of the brave former victims who have now empowered themselves, found their voices, and forever condemned these sceezeballs who call themselves holiness preachers but are lechers and adulterers, child rapists and child molesters, pedophiles, and those who take pleasure in them that do such things.
May they receive the just recompense of their folly and lewdness.
I don't think he used the "gird the loins" phrase; he basically indicated that he somehow screwed up his courage to obey "the Lord." As far as the spit in the ears, I'm sure he was plagiarizing from when Jesus made clay from spit and healed the guy born blind. He's not original enough to think of it himself.
10 out of 10 people will experience death.
And the Angel of the Lard spake unto Davis as he was praying and said: When thou goest through the field thou shalt cross a gully, be not thou afraid of the snakes but gird up thy loins and hear ye the voice of the Almighty. Thou shalt go back inside and thou shalt see a bright light, cover thine eyes and my hinder parts shall pass before thee. Thus saith the Lard, I have chosen you and anointed you, when you speak I will speak, and thou shalt start a cult and brainwash many naive and gullible souls. I will multiply thy bank account as the stars in the sky, innumerable. Thou shalt surround thyself with immoral servants that will protect thee when allegations of adultery, child molestation, rape and abuse are leveled against thee. They shall bring their allegations to Olson and Kekel, but they will not receive them, because we will use the 3 witness rule to accuse them of lying. Thy brainwashed masses shalt buy thee mansions and Cars and gadgets and thou wilt live to a ripe old age. Thou shalt leave thy kindom to thy son in law and illegitimate/adopted daughter, and will thy mansion in Arizona to thy sinful Grandchild. None of thy followers will ever suspect that thou hast committed iniquity, because they will ignore thy riches and vow their loyalty to you throughout all of thy days. Beware of the X-ers that shall rise up against thee in thy last days and spread the truth about thee. They shall expose thee for all of thy perverted ways and tell the truth about the things you have done. Keep thy brainwashed masses away from the internet and allow them not to bloggeth in their chambers. Discredit them amongst yourselves so that no one will believe them. Maybe if thou ignorest them they will go away.
The last prophesy was not written to make fun of God or to misquote anything that's already been shared, but I wrote it because it describes the attitude of RWD and might exaggerate his arrogance, just a bit, but it shows how stupid he thinks everyone else is. While he was sharing his prophesies and visions he was also involved in sexually deviant behavior as others have shared. Vic's testimony of what he heard verifies what we heard from another brother that was around at the same time. During that time when Davis was bragging about his visions and such, we also have testimony from Julie and others that Davis was committing acts of adultery, rape, and child molestation and he was harboring people like Johnny Jordan, who also was a rapist and child molester. At this time Davis was also raking in money and getting rich while many people struggled to survive. Now I'm not attempting to misrepresent anyone, nor do I care what the ntcc loyalist crowd thinks. But if you believe that this creep, Davis, is a man of God, and you believe his visions are true, you might as well believe everything I wrote. When you fill in the blanks you have a false prophet that thinks you are stupid enough to ignore his past and give him all your money, while he wastes away in the mansion you bought him.
We had a demon amongst us and right in our faces manifesting him self as an angle of the light, and we did not even recognize him. So it got to be even worse for society and the world.
Hello Vic: I remember you doing the time that I was a member of ntcc late seventies and early eighties my name is Maurice Strapp. Even back then I use to wonder why was that davis claim to seeing angles, and healing others always seem to be so past tense, so distance, so long ago nothing recently, no witnesses, stories that seem to just have been repeated over and over again, I guess it made davis and others fill validated.
If davis, kekel, creflo dollar and others can deceive, trick, or fool Bible School Students, its easy to see, how easy it would be, for the anti-Christ to deceive the world.
Hey Maurice, glad to hear from you...yeah, those stories were pretty glorious and got us all shouting, but if we'd been more objective we would have noticed that he was all clouds and no rain. Sounds like your brain was working better than mine; I hung around until '95.
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