Are All these Girls Lying? Pam Norton and Lori Kelly Testimonies
Lisa said...
I will never ever forget the day Barbara Norton so called mom woke me up to tell me she was leaving my dad to be a preacher in Seattle. I came downstairs. Davis and his men took everything out of the house my handicap brother Terry and I where watching them take everything out she took down the Christmas tree and the presents she had under the tree where for her new church family she made sure to tell us. I remeber standing there it was Christmas morning she left Terry and I our beds and one dresser for us to share. Davi[s] and Barbara said I was evil and had the Mark of the beast on my forehead
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 8:40:00 PM
Lisa said...They took all the food. I am in my head being only 15 yrs old thinking it's Christmas how and what do I do for Terry.. My dad was working 35hrs for extra money. Barbara. Was yelling because I had this panino
I bought and I sold it. How she wanted the money to use to leave dad she found the money and gave it to Davis for tithe.. I use to volunteer for meals on wheels they would give me tip money I would hide it she would find it and
Give to Davis for tithe offering whatever.....I just stared at hurt she was yelling it over and over it was just Terry and I and her. Davis had our stuff she was to meet him
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 8:51:00 PM
Lisa said...I just stood there in a daze. . The only reason Davis thought I was evil is because she would listen to my phone conversations with Lori. I told Lori. I would never let some man wake me up and tell me to fix his food I was a slave to Barbara never would I ever let some man treat me like his trash.. I told her I would punch him in the nose. I always thought if I fix you food it's because I want to.... She never ever listen to anything my dad asked or said to her.. He could say the sky was blue she would say red just to tick him off.she was very very mean to my dad
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:03:00 PM
Lisa said...A part of me had this big smile I found my way out of prison I was going to be free from her from the church from. Davis all of the stuff it was like a weight was lifted I could breath for the first time in my life. Then there was a part of me feeling so rejected and knowing I was never wanted or ever loved that was the hurt because no matter you have to stand there and realize. You really was her trash, damaged goods. I was nothing but damaged. You can't even look at yourself because of the ugliness of what your where inside and out... Davis and Barbara made sure to let me know. That I was the devil he was inside of me...
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:13:00 PM
Lisa said...As I watched her and the rest of the people leaving and take everything out of the house so they could meet Davis. I went to this dark side that I have welcomed so many times... I sat there looking around there was nothing but the tv and couch. I kept telling myself over and over come on snap out of this... I looked at Terry he started to cry I got scared he was rocking back and forth back and forth again I. Felt like I was drowning it was hard to breath the air was so stiff.... I kept saying to myself Lisa be strong your the adult now your pregnant with Johnny. baby you are all alone help Terry..
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:20:00 PM
Lisa said...As Terry rocked back and forth screaming taking his hands. Putting them on his ears. Screaming no no no why is she leaving Lisa... Ii just sat there he asked me if she left because he wet the bed ? I was like no he looked at me with the sweetest face saying she said. It was my fault for wetting the bed . Then she said it was your fault for being a whore he asked me did you sleep with people I told him no ..I was so shocked she said this to him.. He kept saying she hated us and then he was crying harder and harder... I can't explain how I stood up my legs felt like jello
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:32:00 PM
Lisa said...Somehow I stood up gave him a hug and told him it was going to be ok I was here for him and I love you. I told him to see if we at least had two glasses and plates that I would be back. I walked to the corner store it was so cold she took almost all my clothes and gave them to somebody and my winter coat... I found a big purse and one dollar the people at the store loved and trusted me. I went in there they had some shoppers I opened my purse I stole. As much food As I could. There was this box of candy I stole for Terry to have a present.. I took that dollar and bought a 2 liter of soda
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:41:00 PM
Lisa said...I came home and ran up the stairs. I knew where there was warping paper and tape. . I wrapped the candy up came down stairs and looked at him and said hey Terry mom. Forgot she didn't. Take your present it's right here a big smile came over his face as he unwrapped his gift smiling ear to ear going I knew she loved me she will be back she will I am like Terry we'll until that happens I have a Christmas dinner for us. I took the food out of the bag and I stole hotdogs bread little stuff there was no dishes we sat there on the kitchen floor and eat cold hot dogs on bread and chips and we both drank out of the two,liter
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:49:00 PM
Lisa said...It made me snap out of it seeing him laugh and smile..I just there while he watched tv and thought to myself I can do this I can be the mom to him and the baby that I don't want but I have to do this... I helped my brother gave him bath and I took my sheet off. Of my bed so he could dry off his body helped him put on his pj and tucked him into bed... I stayed awake waiting for my dad he came home hours later I told him everything gone we have left over hot dogs as I made him food he was in a fetal. Position. Crying what do I do. I had no answers He looked at me and told me
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 9:56:00 PM
Lisa said...We Had this agreement that he would work I would take care of Terry and the house and all the stuff my mom use to do ... I would draw him bath water lay his clothes and Terry I would do the same... My dad went into this please call her and beg her back. I was like no never. He would be okie we'll I won't buy food I would lie and tell him I talked to her.. I don't know if it was all the stress or what but I did loose the baby the best day of my life..... Barb when she was given permission to call. It was horrible dad would cry Terry would cry because he missed her.. I was the one left dealing with everyone.......
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 10:03:00 PM
Lisa said...I was born and as I grew Barbara Norton would tell me not to worry. About doing good in day school because I was in training to be a preachers wife that school was not important. She would always say. Your husband will support you. And you will be his wife. .. I went to bible college at 12 yrs old I did graduate when I was 14 I made straight A. In bible school. She had my life already planned. Before I. Even knew who I. Was. The one thing I knew is I was more lonely In my life then ever... It's weird how you can go to church and smile when deep,down inside you where so tired and unhappy..
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 10:14:00 PM
Lisa said...I am so sorry if I keep go back and forth as the memories. Come back it's so much to handle I have to stop and take a shower I just fill so filthy and nasty for what has happened to me. After I lost the baby I did call Barbara in Seattle. And told her Johnny Jordan, raped me and I was pregnant by him and lost the baby. She called me a liar and told me Davis told her I would make up,lies about him because he did want me up there..she was yelling over the phone saying I was the one that if it happened I tempted him. Davis told her I was the one that told him I loved him and wanted him
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 11:16:00 PM
Lisa said...Barbara, was like Davis said we are living in these last days. And people would rise and cause problems in the church tempting the brothers and. I was the reason the brothers sinned. She was yelling saying she wouldn't let alittle whore like me bring down her church.. Eve.n when John was caught and PAm told her see she wasn't lying to this day she still believes. It was my fault...... Going back to Dec 25. when she left she told me I was. Thorn in her side that she was removing she spit on the ground and said I will never have the likes of you around ..
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 11:24:00 PM
Lisa said...The next day still confused. I called Lori told her I needed her. She came over and I told her everything we kind of looked at each other. And she said this year my mom died and your mom left. I was crying she put her arms around me saying will get through this. I learned how to grieve. As if Barbara died. But she was still alive. The 26 of dec Lori and I and my family had white castles it was our Christmas meal... Lori and I would look at each other going Barbara never loved me her mom died she was wonderful. It was like how do we start life Lori looked at me and said one day at a time
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 11:32:00 PM
Lisa said...I do want to go back and say. My mom did love the children at church but when she babysit them she spanked them as we'll... There was this little blonde boy he dripped jelly on the floor she took a switch to him. Any child that she watch if they made her mad did get a spanking from her.there was a 6month old baby he kept crying she took his diaper off and smacked him on the butt ... If she is watching your child or children they are getting spanked....Barbara was never allowed to be with my little girl. ... She said my child was a spoiled bratt
Wednesday, February 26, 2014 11:39:00 PM
Let's Summarize what happened here. Pam, Lisa and Terry were all children of Barbara Norton Warwick. Pam married Johnny Jordan who was Davis's right hand man, and worked for him in the office. Lisa was Pam's younger sister who had just finished bible school at the age of 14. Terry was their Handicapped brother. Lisa and Terry both lived with Barbara.
Some time shortly after Lisa finished bible school, she was raped by Johnny Jordan, her older sister Pam's Husband. Keep in mind that Pam was still a minor being about 16 years old at the time. Davis was using his position of power to molest Pam while Johnny was working for him. He illegally raped Pam using his finger to penetrate her, while feeling her up. By the way, this makes Davis a child molester and a child rapist according to law. All of the sudden, a couple months later, Lisa is pregnant, and it can't be hidden.
Davis decides to hide his sin and influences Barbara Norton to abandon Lisa who is 15 and pregnant, and to abandon her handicapped son Terry. Davis and his helpers come to their house during Christmas and take everything out of the house that has any value including the Christmas tree and all of the Christmas Presents. They took the furniture, most of Lisa's clothes, her coat, and all of the food out of the house. The Grinch was a saint compared to Davis.
At least the Grinch grew a heart and gave back Christmas. Davis stole girls' innocence by molesting and raping them. He then lied to the congregation about them so that nobody would help them or believe them when they told what he did.
When you know all the stories from these girls, and from some others who have shared what Davis did to them, you see this pattern. If Davis can seduce the girl and molest her freely, she can stay and be his sex toy. If his child molesting techniques fail, he discredits the girl and gets her thrown out on the street. In short, with Davis it is:
PUT OUT or GET OUT.
Barbara left Lisa; and Davis had his forked tongue servant, Ashmore, conduct a smear campaign. Ashmore is also a wicked man; and he made it a point to discredit Lisa so that nobody would know what really happened. Ashmore deceitfully and knowingly lied about Lisa, saying she was a whore and a slut; but she was a victim of rape. Lori Kelley, who was also left to fend for herself after her mother died, was Lisa's life-long best friend and they both were disparaged and lied about by Ashmore to cover Davis' sins. Davis hid Johnny Jordan by moving him up to Washington state and thereby covered up Johnny's rape of Lisa. After all, Davis was molesting and raping Johnny Jordan's underage wife Pam; and what would stop Johnny from spilling his guts if Davis outed him?
 |
| "Lisa and I witnessed many things with that church Ashmore calling us names saying we're sluts and from the world to stay away from us and kicked us out of church" -- shared by Lori K. |
 |
| Sisters Pam and Lisa back in the day. |
We want these ladies and anyone else torn down by abuse to know, they are more than the liars say. They are precious in God's eyes. Here are a few songs about that.
UPDATE 2-28-2014
Anon a mouse contributed this excellent video and resource info for a group called BACA - Bikers Against Child Abuse. These Bikers dedicate their time to protect and empower children who have been abused.
If you are being molested and or abused get help from outside NTCC:
1) Call the police and tell them about the abuse and that you are in a cult.
2) Call BACA in your area by finding the chapter closest to you:
BACA Chapter Locator: http://bacaworld.org/chapters/
3) DO NOT Tell ANYONE Attending the NTCC - They have a history of attacking victims and of hiding abusers by moving victims, abusers, or both!
Anon a mouse contributed this excellent video and resource info for a group called BACA - Bikers Against Child Abuse. These Bikers dedicate their time to protect and empower children who have been abused.
If you are being molested and or abused get help from outside NTCC:
1) Call the police and tell them about the abuse and that you are in a cult.
2) Call BACA in your area by finding the chapter closest to you:
BACA Chapter Locator: http://bacaworld.org/chapters/
3) DO NOT Tell ANYONE Attending the NTCC - They have a history of attacking victims and of hiding abusers by moving victims, abusers, or both!
Related Posts:
Lisa's Life: "This Is I" -- Mobile Format Series
Julie's Difficult Life: "I Have A Name" -- Mobile Format Series
Pam's Life: Are All These Girls Lying? Pam and Lori K.'s Testimonies
Johnny Dean Jordan - Sex Offender -- Mobile Format Series
Johnny Dean Jordan - Sex Offender -- Mobile Format Series
Desktop Computer Users:
If the blog page does NOT have side-bar columns and $20 bills as the background wallpaper, use the following link to post a comment:
Desktop Comments Page
185 comments:
Lisa said:
"I will never ever forget the day Barbara Norton so called mom woke me up to tell me she was leaving my dad to be a preacher in Seattle. I came downstairs. Davis and his men took everything out of the house my handicap brother Terry and I where watching them take everything out she took down the Christmas tree and the presents she had under the tree where for her new church family she made sure to tell us."
DNA said:
This should be a wake up call to those of you who love and adore Davis. Davis helped Barbara Norton abandon her 15 year old daughter and her handicapped son. What a witch. Davis is a cold, calculated predator and evil sick and wicked scumbag. Some time after this Davis also sent Lisa's Dad to North Carolina to leave her and Terry alone. Davis is no more a man of God than Hitler was.
Barbara was a puppet on strings doing whatever Davis said. I don't care what Davis said to her, you don't abandon your own flesh and blood. Your children that you had. Barbara Norton is worse than an infidel. She not only failed to provide, she took everything they owned. Davis and his men took everything that had value out of the house so they could profit. They tore down the Christmas tree and took the presents right in front of Lisa and her handicapped brother. Davis is one warped individual. Johnny Jordan the child molester and rapist was his right hand man. At 15 years old, and pregnant after being raped by Johnny Jordan, she has to watch as Davis unloads her house and tears down her Christmas tree, and then has to comfort her handicapped brother. They were left hi and dry.
Thursday, February 27, 2014 4:11:00
Lisa said:
"Davis and Barbara said I was evil and had the Mark of the beast on my forehead"
DNA said:
How stupid is that? That means that the rapture must have already taken place and Davis and Barbara were left behind. Imagine that.
Lisa said:
"I went to bible college at 12 yrs old I did graduate when I was 14 I made straight A. In bible school. She had my life already planned. Before I. Even knew who I. Was."
DNA said:
We are sorry Lisa, that nobody loved you enough to think that you deserved to have a childhood. You were physically tortured and beaten by Barbara Norton and forced to go to BS at 12 years of age and to go through all the dating rituals. Then shortly after that, Johnny Jordan wasn't satisfied with your sister as his wife, and raped you, making you pregnant, and then Davis helps your mom abandon you on Christmas day and they blame you for it all and say that you have the Mark of the beast.
Davis was hiding his sin, very much like David did, when he had Uriah the Hittite murdered, except Davis never admitted his sin and he left Lisa hi and dry to fend for herself. He had Johnny Jordan moved to Washington, He kicked Lisa out of the church so that she couldn't talk. He couldn't hide the fact that Lisa was pregnant. Davis then had Forked tongue Ashmore lie for him and discredit Lisa, saying she was a whore and a slut. Davis tried to hide his sin by destroying Lisa's life. Everything Lisa went through was to hide Davis's sin of molesting Lisa's older sister Pam and Johnny Jordan's sin of raping Lisa.
This sin was hidden 30 years ago, but Thus saith the word of the Lord, "Be sure your sin will find you out". Num 23:32 (Numerical Palindrome=2332 same number backwards) It's coming back around to bite Davis in the butt.
Lisa said:
"Davis and his men took everything out of the house my handicap brother Terry and I where watching them take everything out she took down the Christmas tree and the presents she had under the tree where for her new church family she made sure to tell us. I remeber standing there it was Christmas morning she left Terry and I our beds and one dresser for us to share."
DNA said:
The Grinch who stole Christmas was a saint compared to Davis.
Davis and his men took everything out of the house my handicap brother Terry and I where watching them take everything out she took down the Christmas tree and the presents she had under the tree where for her new church family she made sure to tell us.
What wicked individuals to do this to a two helpless individuals. I don't care what kind of lies Barbara was told to take presents away from her own children that is evil beyond evil. It breaks my heart knowing you had to endure all this.
Hugs,
Julie
Lisa said...
They took all the food. I am in my head being only 15 yrs old thinking it's Christmas how and what do I do for Terry....
You had a big heart of love for your brother than even your own mother yet she dare call herself a mother. Barbara wouldn't deserve that title in a million years.
Hugs,
Julie
Lisa said...
I just stood there in a daze. . The only reason Davis thought I was evil is because she would listen to my phone conversations with Lori. I told Lori. I would never let some man wake me up and tell me to fix his food I was a slave to Barbara never would I ever let some man treat me like his trash.. I told her I would punch him in the nose. I always thought if I fix you food it's because I want to....
Even at that young age you understood that the teaches of Davis were so hard and he didn't like how intelligent you were. One smart girl hated by one dumb evil of a monster man. Barbara would rather follow him than care about you how sick and twisted in that.
Hugs,
Julie
Lisa said...Then there was a part of me feeling so rejected and knowing I was never wanted or ever loved that was the hurt because no matter you have to stand there and realize. You really was her trash, damaged goods. I was nothing but damaged. You can't even look at yourself because of the ugliness of what your where inside and out... Davis and Barbara made sure to let me know. That I was the devil he was inside of me...
This makes me cry that you were left feeling rejected and unloved. You have had more loved for others than many in NTCC. You were than and still are now a very loving and beautiful person from the inside and out. You deserved than to be cared about and still deserve to be cared about. It amazes me that you can be such a loving and kind person after all that.
Hugs,
Julie
Lisa said...
I sat there looking around there was nothing but the tv and couch. I kept telling myself over and over come on snap out of this...
Felt like I was drowning it was hard to breath the air was so stiff.... I kept saying to myself Lisa be strong your the adult now your pregnant with Johnny. baby you are all alone....
As I read this I cry yet I shake my head in amazement that you could be that strong of a girl.
I can so feel your pain to the core of my soul.
To think you had to feel that day you were now an adult because you were left to care for your handicap brother as well as being pregnant with a child by rape. How sick these people are and what they must answer to God for doing.
Hugs,
Julie
Lisa said...
As Terry rocked back and forth screaming taking his hands. Putting them on his ears. Screaming no no no why is she leaving Lisa...
I can't explain how I stood up my legs felt like jello
To leave a so helpless handicapped individual and him to think it was his fault makes me so upset with your mother. Then to leave you as a child to take over her responsibility before God that burden that you had to carry that was so wrong. No wonder your legs felt like jello the weight of the world without warning was on your shoulders. Yet you were so brave, so strong, so loving, and kind not punishment Terry for the sins of Barbara, Davis, and others. I have no words to describe how awesome you were and still are today.
Hugs,
Julie
Lisa said...
I came home and ran up the stairs. I knew where there was warping paper and tape. . I wrapped the candy up came down stairs and looked at him and said hey Terry mom. Forgot she didn't. Take your present.....
Wow Lisa you were so loving that day thinking more about Terry than even yourself. In your own child way you wanted Terry not to feel rejected or unloved like you felt. You cared so much more than the adults did.
The evil evil monsters to dare claim they followed Christ and you were the evil.....you were more like Christ than they were at all.
But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
Matthew 18:6
Hugs,
Julie
Lisa said...
We Had this agreement that he would work I would take care of Terry and the house and all the stuff my mom use to do.....
To have to grow up over night. That is so very sad. You lost out on so much in life yet you didn't let that define who you became an individual. You have one amazing heart for others.
Barbara is such an evil person and to think I use to get in trouble for saying I didn't like her but who listens to what children say.
Hugs,
Julie
Lisa said...
She had my life already planned. Before I. Even knew who I. Was. The one thing I knew is I was more lonely In my life then ever... It's weird how you can go to church and smile when deep,down inside you where so tired and unhappy..
Oh Lisa I can so relate to this. Having someone plan out your life and wonder will I ever get a say in what happens to me? It is so hard to put on the smile were one is hurting so deep inside. I thinking it makes others so misunderstand the rest of our actions not realizing the pain we are really in.
Hugs,
Julie
After I lost the baby I did call Barbara in Seattle. And told her Johnny Jordan, raped me and I was pregnant by him and lost the baby. She called me a liar and told me Davis told her I would make up,lies about him because he didn't want me up there..she was yelling over the phone saying I was the one that if it happened I tempted him. Davis told her I was the one that told him I loved him and wanted him......
Wow that is such double talk....first call you a liar than say you tempted him and wanted him. Liars never can make up their minds on how they want to lie about the one that is telling the truth. So show how Davis and all of them really are.
Hugs,
Julie
Lisa said...
Barbara, was like Davis said we are living in these last days. And people would rise and cause problems in the church tempting the brothers and. I was the reason the brothers sinned. She was yelling saying she wouldn't let alittle whore like me bring down her church.. Eve.n when John was caught and PAm told her see she wasn't lying to this day she still believes. It was my fault......
Liars never do want to face the truth even when it is staring them in the face. Perverts so hiding perverts. They made Johnny Jordan think he would never get caught in his lustful sins. They are just as responsible for Johnny's sins as he is for them. Liars always want to blame someone else never wanting to except responsibility for their own actions.
Hugs,
Julie
Lisa said...
The next day still confused. I called Lori told her I needed her. She came over and I told her everything we kind of looked at each other. And she said this year my mom died and your mom left. I was crying she put her arms around me saying will get through this.
I am so sad for both you and Lori. I am thankful you had each other in those so difficult days. I just wish either of you had to ever go through any of this. You were two grieving girls yet the so called church was more concerned with how much money someone was giving and how can we hide the evil sins we are committing.
You and Lori are so amazing and so strong. I am thankful that you both have step out to speak. Both of you and Pam have so helped me on the blog. I am truly grateful to God for all 3 of you. All three of you are such precious people.
Hugs,
Julie
As,I sit here reading this,Im feeling tired,from the long hrs of working and overtime Im putting in to help my girls on my shift so we wont be short at work,so our elderly gets the care and help from me,im tired and barley can crawl out of bed,or willing to answer the phone,or send a friendly text,to say Hello How are You? Then a light came on I started thinking what in the world am I thinking,then I start to think my life is just a normal daily routine..Then I think about my dear friend "my Sister Lisa"and Julie and pam and everyone else,what they went through and still going through to this day because of Mr.Davis,Olson ,Keckel,and Ashmore HMMMM....Ashmore I looked up to you from all the other people in the church you was there when I was a little girl you and your family was a big part of my life,Geeze..I had the biggest crush on your son Jerry,I told so many times we would be together and be married...That didn't happen cause when you found out we was found in the closet kissing,my mom was no longer allowed to watch them,and he was never to speak to me again,I was hurt,and didn't understand why he wouldnt talk or even look at me....Broken hearted...:( I know now he was being controlled by the church and his mother and father...Now im sitting here typing this smiling on this note: We are rising up and out we the Victim's are posting our stories to the world to let people know what kind of people the church is and we are calling you out! We are getting more and more people everyday reading our comment's and amazingly were getting more and more new feedback from complete stranger's,...Wow,were not asking for money,or power or glory or fame were asking for the truth,and honestly so we can get these jerks held accountable for theyre actions....I will continued this soon I have a lot more to say.. Lori XXXMember...
We've added a Grinch video and a red paragraph of commentary to the blog post.
Lori,
Thanks for your comment. That is heartbreaking that they were controlling you even as children. Kissing in a closet is a typical childhood behavior. My friends and I had a double date kissing in the closet in sixth grade. We did not become "whores" or "sluts" and the teacher, who I'm sure had to know what was going on, just allowed a little pre-teen fun to take place right there.
But in this freakish cult "normal" is not normal. In the controlling cult, children being molested by so-called "men of Gawd" is "normal". They are evil.
You're right about the need to hold them accountable.
Barbara Norton Warwick, when she went to saint louis, to attend the funeral of her son terry, she was so distraught, so burdened, the weight of her transgressions were on her to the point that all she wanted to do was stay with her "church" people. That way she could pretend that everything was fine. Roddney spent a lot of time and money prepairing a dinner, and she didn't want any of it! Her family were all wicked sinners.
Continued:Lets go back just a little..When my mother passed,i was up the street with a life long friend,we was sitting out on the curb I was 15 at the time and I was hanging out like a normal kid,having some fun all if a sudden her mother came to me and said Lori I think you better go home now I said why she replied you need to go home your dad neds you,i stood there tears in my eyes...I walked in my house Olson ,Davis was there and they looked at me in madness cause I was wearing jeans at the time they were pissed,my mother was being rushed to the hospital she took the turn for the worst,and I was allowed to go because I was a sinner,I was left alone,i knew I had to go back to Wilma's house for comfort to let them know what had happen to me,I was sitting out side on curb with Wilma and all of a sudden I saw this white figure standing on a foundation from a burning garage and I stared at this at Wilma asked what was I looking at and I replied look look don't you se it she said no,she looked I think she thought I was crazt at that time then all of a sudden I saw the white figure wave to me and jumped up and slowly faede into the ground I just stood there was scared and confused and I noticed Wilma looked at her watch it was 8:12!!!!My Mom passed away,i can only remember my father told me her last words were LORD I DID MY JOB KEEP YOUR HAND ON MY CHILDREN!!! Later on that night Wilma came to see if I was ok and she broke down and told me why she looked at her watch vause that was when my Mom passed and I didn't have a clue I grabbed her and started crying I was alone again and scared...My meaning of this story is Davis,Olson you took somthng very specila from me just because I was wearing pants I wasn't allowed to see my Mother on her death bed you took that away from me to share my last words with her to tell her I was sorry for being a bad kid to tell her MOM don't leave me I need you ,I love you you robbed me of this,I HATE YOU! WHO ARE YOU TO TELL MY FATHER I WASNT ALLOWED AT HOSPITAL TO SEE HER....I HATE YOU SO MUCH......XXX MEMBER LORI
Lori,
We are so sorry they did that to you! These men are so cruel! This just confirms what we've shared before: the ntcc cares more about their image than they care about a child's welfare.
It sounds like you had a vision of an angel. Hopefully that burning garage foundation represented the end of this filthy organization.
Lori said:
"I had the biggest crush on your son Jerry,I told so many times we would be together and be married...That didn't happen cause when you found out we was found in the closet kissing,my mom was no longer allowed to watch them,and he was never to speak to me again,I was hurt,and didn't understand why he wouldnt talk or even look at me....Broken hearted..."
DNA said:
It's amazing how that certain individuals like Kinson and Kekel were allowed to have make-out sessions with their future teen brides, but others were humiliated and relationships were manipulated and destroyed. Many people know what it feels like to lose their first love. It happened to me when I was 25 in the ntcc. It hurt really bad and it took a long time to get over it, and even then the hurt stays with you for what seems like an eternity.
I remember meeting Jerry at my first conference, which was the first conference they ever had at Holly Hills. There was a lot of talk (gossip) about Jerry getting in trouble with Davis, had no idea why at the time. Perhaps it was for kissing you in the closet or maybe it had something to do with the adulterous affair that he had later. People are manipulated in such an evil way. To this day I hear that Jerry or Larry or whatever his name is still defends those that manipulated him. The ntcc leadership are the most perverse individuals I've ever been around in my life. The ntcc brings out the worst in people. If they would allow people to have the privilege of making their own decisions and allowing them to cultivate their own relationships, perhaps they wouldn't get burned so bad.
Now days it seems like things are coming home to roost for these manipulators. People are still going to ignore the truth and worship Davis and Ashmore, but there are some out there that know you Girls and witnessed demise without knowing what you actually went through. Any of the ntcc'rs out there that have half a heart will begin to take a look at what they are involved in. Everything Lisa just shared is validated by others who testify. During the time period of the late 70's and early 80's Davis wreaked a lot of havoc and many people paid a price for his wickedness. People in the ntcc that are trapped are still paying the price.
Thank you Lori for sharing. I know that the toils of life can wear you down and yet you still take the time to share with others so they can be aware of what the ntcc big wigs are all about. Every time you share things it is very helpful and validates things that have happened. Lori, Lisa, Pam and Julie, you were all there during that time period and all of your testimony is witness to what Davis and his group of thugs were all about. We appreciate you all coming forward and sharing what you have been through. There are many others out there that you know and some that we know that will still not come forward. You all have spilled your guts and poured out your hearts, and there are dozens of people that have experienced similar horrors, but for whatever reason they can't bring themselves to share.
I am convinced if we all continue to share the truth and share what we know, it will blow the lid off this thing. Secrets that have been hidden for decades are now public knowledge. It's out there and the ntcc can no longer contain what's happened. We have brought forth the truth with more witnesses than even they require and they can't refute it. It's already happened and all they can do is accuse and lie about you to cover their own evil filth.
The hurt you women have suffered is beyond what anyone should have to go through. You have taken the steps necessary to make people aware of what they are all about. If people still choose to stay after reading your testimonies, it's on them. We hope and pray that folks will escape and others will share, so that the pain and suffering can be ended. As long as people make excuses for Davis and his cohorts, people will continue to suffer.
We had to make a correction to the blog post. We had confused part of Lori's testimony with Lisa's story.
Lori Kelley had shared in the previous blog thread:
"after mom passed my dad was told to kick Vikki and I out of house and kick us to the curb forced to sale house and dad moved to North Carolina with 2 girls living with strangers and on the streets."
Sorry, ladies, that we incorporated that into Lisa's story. We are glad you let us know we made that mistake and hope this correction will help our readers who may have also noticed the error.
In reading the recent insanity on the blog I have been unable to comment. Not that I don't want to, but what do I even say? I don't know these ladies. Didn't even know of them. But know of or have spent time with their parents/mother. I am just shocked, disgusted, and horrified at what they have went through. I am praying for them and hoping that with this all coming to light the shake down will come to ntcc.
A song came to mind as I read on the blog today. It's by Casting Crowns, Does Anybody Hear Her. I just wish someone could have heard these ladies and helped them long ago. I realize the song has a different point in parts, but much of it is valid. If you think it would be ok to include, please do....the link is below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEhRucEVzH8
Thanks
That's a beautiful song and good video. It brings to light how that the voices of the ones who are crying out for help are not heard in the church. It was like this in the ntcc. So many people would seek help, but they were rejected unless they fit that certain mold and were willing to become a loyalist to the false doctrine that was being force fed to them.
The ntcc was very critical towards just about everyone who walked in their doors. They kept very few. They ran more off than they kept. People were not allowed to stay around if they didn't give their chunk of flesh. It's really bad when people within are suffering abuse and nobody will listen to their voices. Many were raised in the ntcc and they suffered every day of their lives as children. Some are still in after all that suffering and they have kept it all inside. Nobody has ever helped them and nobody in the ntcc would understand if they shared the abuse they went through. They take responsibility for what they went through even though it was not their fault. They keep it hidden deep down within and the hurt and the pain never goes away. They can't get help, because there is nobody in the ntcc that will listen to them. Abuse only implicates the leadership for their inaction and unwillingness to identify it and deal with the predators. Victims know and have seen what happens when people reach out within the corrupt organization for help. They are told to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling. They are told never to share any of what they went through with anyone else. They know if they try to talk to a brother or sister that that person has been trained and pressured to go tell their 'pastor'. So they keep it all inside.
If people on the inside can't get the proper help from the church leadership, how are people on the outside going to get help. They might hear salvation and it might seem like God is moving because people are actually giving their hearts to God, but they are also giving their loyalty and trust to a bunch of corrupt self serving religious hypocrites that will eventually destroy most of them. Even if somehow a church member has a sincere pastor who wants to help that person, eventually that person is going to be handed off to a corrupt hireling that will do everything they can to destroy the hope that they have.
The ntcc has always ignored those who need help the most. They look down their noses at women like the one in the video. They want them to become institutionalized into the ntcc so they can be used and abused. All of the ntcc pastors have been brainwashed into sending their converts to Kekel so they can learn his immoral and corrupt ways in 'seminary'. There is no hope inside the ntcc. You are better off not getting saved than to be brainwashed by this bunch. They will zap you of every ounce of joy and peace you ever had and leave you in a hopeless situation thinking that you'll never be saved. You are much better off praying on your own for salvation and asking God to help you live for him. Beware of hypocrites who love to play church and receive the praises of men, while they get rich and snarl at you for wanting to do something with your own life. Real Godly people will love you for who you are and not try to force you to do things that are unbiblical. If someone loves you they will lift you up instead of always tearing you down.
Those of you who do not like the way this blog is run, feel free to leave a comment. We reserve the right to publish what we want to publish. We are under no obligation to allow anyone to use our blog tear down the victims of abuse. Sometimes if the comment is negative but objective and if we feel it might help, we will publish it, but not if we feel it will hurt those who have been brave enough to expose the cult.
If you feel the need to praise and lift up the abusers while trashing the victims, than this blog is not for you. You are not welcome here, go start your own blog. There have been some that in the past have questioned the validity and have issues with what is shared here. You are entitled to your opinions, but we are here for the victims. They have never been able to share their testimonies in the ntcc. Nobody has ever given them the chance to be heard and believed. We want folks to know that this is a safe place to get help and share your stories of abuse without anyone being critical of you or putting you down.
If you want that, than go back to the ntcc, and you will get that every day from the pulpit. They have their platform and they don't allow anyone to interfere with their cult meetings and dispute anything with them. They have had their voice and they have had their day. In their arrogance they have shut people up and beaten them emotionally, mentally, spiritually and even physically until they fall in line and obey their corrupt leaders.
This blog is moderated for that reason. We are not here for the ntcc sympathizers or those who want to find fault and say harmful things to those who have already endured way too much suffering. This blog is here to expose the ntcc, not advance their cause.
Fox news is supposedly 'fair and balanced', they have people from both political persuasions that argue about politics. We are not here to be fair to the ntcc. They were never fair to us. They were never accountable. They were never transparent. They would never listen when victims came forward.
We are now declaring this a safe haven for those who have suffered in the ntcc. We will do everything we can to protect those who come forward and to expose the ntcc and it's corrupt regime. If you are still in the ntcc and afraid to share things publicly, we understand and hope that you keep reading the testimonies that are shared and please feel free to share anonymously. If you ever need help dealing with the abuse, there are people here who have been through it, and willing to help.
If anyone knows of any ongoing abuse that is happening now, please don't let it continue another day. Please help the victims so that they precious lives can be salvaged and they can be helped. Whatever you do, don't go to the ntcc leaders, because they have a history of protecting their own name and allowing abuse to go unchecked. They will ask for witnesses and discredit you for trying to help the victim. Go to the police. If you are afraid of bodily harm or any repercussions, let us know anonymously and we will report it for you. Give us names dates and times, and we will do everything we can to help those who are being abused.
Oh Lori what they did to you was so very wrong....thanks for getting the truth out of their awful ways. It shows how evil they are and how they are nothing like God in any way. What happened should have never took place. Keeping you from the hospital was a very low thing to do.
Hugs,
Julie
Lori said...
,Geeze..I had the biggest crush on your son Jerry,I told so many times we would be together and be married...That didn't happen cause when you found out we was found in the closet kissing,my mom was no longer allowed to watch them,and he was never to speak to me again,I was hurt,and didn't understand why he wouldnt talk or even look at me....Broken hearted...:( I know now he was being controlled by the church and his mother and father...
Wow the way they control who can be with who and who can do what with whom is just so horribly wrong. They have no right to have that much control. The control they think they should have in who marries who is just terrible. They have ruin many lives that way.
Everything you have got through is so wrong. My heart really feels for you very deeply.
Hugs,
Julie
Anonymous Anon a mouse said...
In reading the recent insanity on the blog I have been unable to comment. Not that I don't want to, but what do I even say? I don't know these ladies. Didn't even know of them. But know of or have spent time with their parents/mother. I am just shocked, disgusted, and horrified at what they have went through. I am praying for them and hoping that with this all coming to light the shake down will come to ntcc.
Julie says....
Thank you for your compassion comment. I can totally understand your lose for words but even saying that is so important to all us victims. To know that people care is valuable and helps to know others wouldn't want what has happen to have taken place. Thanks for your prayers for the journey to healing is long and at times difficult and we can use every prayer of love and care.
Hugs,
Julie
Anon a mouse said...
A song came to mind as I read on the blog today. It's by Casting Crowns, Does Anybody Hear Her. I just wish someone could have heard these ladies and helped them long ago. I realize the song has a different point in parts, but much of it is valid. If you think it would be ok to include, please do....the link is below.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OEhRucEVzH8
Thanks for sharing this song. Yes it is a great one. Thanks for caring and wishing we could have ben heard long before. This means so much to my heart and soul. Thank you also for being concerned enough to say only post if you think it would be helpful that shows that you only want to help not hurt. Your care is amazing and so valuable too.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA said.....
Those of you who do not like the way this blog is run, feel free to leave a comment. We reserve the right to publish what we want to publish. We are under no obligation to allow anyone to use our blog tear down the victims of abuse. Sometimes if the comment is negative but objective and if we feel it might help, we will publish it, but not if we feel it will hurt those who have been brave enough to expose the cult.
If you feel the need to praise and lift up the abusers while trashing the victims, than this blog is not for you. You are not welcome here, go start your own blog. There have been some that in the past have questioned the validity and have issues with what is shared here. You are entitled to your opinions, but we are here for the victims. They have never been able to share their testimonies in the ntcc. Nobody has ever given them the chance to be heard and believed. We want folks to know that this is a safe place to get help and share your stories of abuse without anyone being critical of you or putting you down.
Julie says....
Thanks for protecting us victims. Our stories are very difficult to share. We get so much put down for who we are; it is good for us to have a place to share that is safe and safety is what is needed at times. There is plenty of critics out there but having that one place where we know no one is allowed to tear us up is a gift in its self.
We need love and compassion to heal as we get the word out to others that NTCC is not a place that shows God in fact it hurts the heart and soul of so many children and adults.
This blog is like home to me where I am free to be vulnerable yet loved with the true love of Jesus. Where I can lay all cards on the table and know I will be loved for who I am not for what someone thinks I should be.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA said....
We had to make a correction to the blog post. We had confused part of Lori's testimony with Lisa's story.
Well thanks for reminding us you are human and not being afraid to admit it. Showing you are human just like the rest of us helps so much in sharing all that we have to share on this blog. It makes us not feel the need to be perfect ourselves. Every little thing has value even mistakes.
Hugs,
Julie
Aww. We do love each of you very very much!
I remember being babysat by Barbara Norton Warwick. She seem to always find a reason to beat me. Joan and her were close friends and still are. Joan gave her a fly swatter and this cord to use on me. The fly swatter was to hit me with on the arms or the face; Joan like it because it didn’t leave marks for anyone to see.
One of the many beatings I remember from Barbara was over peeing my underwear, dress, and all over the chair. I was sitting eating and I asked to go potty. Barbara said no not until all my food was gone. I sat there and peed. She grabbed me by the back of my dress. I was terrified because I knew she had the cord; it had exposed wire at the end of it. She took me to another room and began swinging the cord it caught me many times down below making many little cuts along the way. It took weeks to heal from those cuts and it didn’t help that I was getting beat while healing. She made me put back on the wet panties. I didn’t get my food back that day at all. I was so shook up I throw up and she didn’t even seem concerned at all. This is how Ralph and Joan found me when they picked me up. They got really mad at me upon learning what I had did. They took me home and like Davis had taught I got in trouble all over again with them. In my house if I got in trouble if one parent spanked me the other parent always followed. So that night I got three beating over peeing my panties and no offer to clean me up at all. Ralph said to Joan why did we such a dumb ugly deformed animal as her. She is worse than having a dog.
I felt so worthless at such a young age. It is bad enough to be mean but why did they have to be this cruel not even caring in the least? They didn’t want me at all…..like they were waiting for the day to get rid of me. I was such a pain for them to deal with the way I was born.
Hugs,
Julie
It still hurts to read about this cruelty. I'm thankful for the tears I cry. It let's me know I'm human....
What theses girls went through, the rapes, the beatings, the day to day verbal abuse. It sickens me - literally. Yet each day the sun rises and these girls arise with love in their hearts and I'm reminded of the scripture:
Mal 4:2
But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
I don't even know what all that means. But I know the Word of God does something for me in my heart that only God can do. He brings that healing deep down inside, where the wounds really are:
Pro 18:8
The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.
Strongs concordance defines a talebearer as synonymous with a backbiter. That really describes the nature of those who have attacked these girls with their mouths.
Julie told me the "abuse no matter what form....cuts to the core of the soul
I have seen all forms.....the hardest abuse to overcome is verbal and spiritual for it carries more damage."
That's hard to imagine when you learn of the bare wire beatings and flyswatter beatings and more. But it is true. It's backed up by the scriptures.
Pro 26:22
The words of a talebearer are as wounds, and they go down into the innermost parts of the belly.
I guess the physical wounds heal. The purple turns to brownish yellow, the bruise is itchy - it's almost all healed up. But the words, down deep in the soul, take a longer time to overcome.
Speaking of different kinds of abuse, I had an alcoholic Step Father. He very seldom beat me physically thank God, but the emotional beat downs took years to recover from. I used to dread hearing the garage door open and his footsteps coming up the stairs. I'm sharing this because the psychology behind it is similar to what Julie was sharing and it leaves scars that take a long time to heal from. My Step father did a good job of preparing me for the ntcc. He convinced me that I was stupid, by telling me that over and over. Keep in mind, my step Father was abusive and he did beat me a couple times, once with a two by four, but he never physically hurt me very bad and never did anything sexually to me like someone recently suggested on an anonymous blog comment that ended up in the delete file. He was a rot gut sinner, but he wasn't even anywhere close in the neighborhood of Ralph, Joan or Barbara. About 15 years ago my step father quit drinking and he's actually mellowed out a lot and his heart has changed. No excuses for damage done though.
When I joined the Army at 18 years old, I really was unsure of myself and had an inferiority complex. When you are beat down all the time mentally it's hard to mature because all of your faults are magnified. The Army helped me in some ways physically and mentally to become tough, but I was ripe for the picking to become a brainwashed cult member at 18 years old. I was a broken soul looking for something to believe in, and along comes the ntcc, with their love bombing and it worked. Someone finally believed in me or so I thought.
At this point in my life I would believe in anything that sounded good and the Gospel was the greatest story ever told, and at that time I wanted to be a part of something special and after a few months of struggling with cigarettes and drinking and going out to Korean Bars in Augusta Georgia. Gotta share this, I took a cab and went to a GI Bar and a Korean girl latched on to me and got my to buy her drinky. I think her drinks were watered down, because she kept drinking and drinking and she wasn't getting drunk, but I was. She wanted to see pictures of my family, so I took out my wallet like a dumb drunk GI and started going through it's contents and it was about that time that I passed out. When I woke up in the barracks the next morning without my wallet and the paycheck I had just cashed, I realized that girl I had so quickly fallen in and out of love with on the dance floor, had taken me for a ride. She was an expert, and it took this experience to take me to the next phase in life.
I gave it all up, prayed and became a Christian. It was real too. I was tender-hearted and believed that the man that introduced me to Jesus through the preaching of the cross was a sincere and devout Christian. I wanted to learn everything I could. I didn't notice the subtleties of the behavior modifications that were taking place in my life. There were other people just like me, and we all loved like brothers and sisters and had no idea what we were all getting ourselves into. We would all be used in different parts of a scheme to make a few choice people rich.
I went to Jump school in Ft. Benning GA, shortly after the Cyrus experience in Augusta, but not before he did me one last favor. My last week in jump school we all got passes and I got on a Greyhound bus and went to Augusta, and then we drove to Fayetteville, NC where I got to meet my next pastor, Don Hummel. I hadn't received the gift yet, so the brothers all gathered around the altar and were rocking me back and forth and screaming and crying and I started speaking in tongues. I think it was real though because a few nights later in the barracks at Ft. Benning one of my roomates said I woke him up speaking in Hebrew. Plus I was finally able to get rid of cigarettes without any withdrawals. My heart was in the right place but my mind was in no way prepared for what I was about to face in Ft. Bragg.
The rest is history and has been shared. I really loved God and the brethren, but was not spiritually equipped to deal with the brainwashing and manipulation that would follow. I went through a few months of personal hell mixed with Christianity and then Hummel requested to go back to HQ and finish Bible School and he was praised for admitting he was not prepared for servicemen's work and admitting he did not have it all put together. Than they replaced one manipulative Homosexual with another. Rudy was Hummels replacement. These were sick old dudes and I still hate them to this day. Perhaps, I will die and go to hell for not forgiving them, but if that's what heaven is all about, than perhaps it's for someone else, not me. I have asked for God to put forgiveness in my heart, but there was never any remorse on their part, and it's hard to sincerely forgive someone who doesn't admit they have done anything wrong. I was the one that was blamed by Davis. Davis kicked me out of the home at Ft. Bragg. He would come through more than usual and stare at me for what seemed to be an eternity. It was pretty intense because I would hold his gaze often until he looked away. He would ask me if I got tested for aids. This was all in the early 80's not too far removed from the time that he was molesting young girls. I should have asked him if he got tested for aids. The sick pervert.
You know what I wanted more than anything in the world? I wanted a Christian wife. Lori's sister Cindy was Rudy's wife. She seemed really nice, but she would soon be recycled into the Nttc revolving door of marriage. She chose to stay in and marry another dude that looked alot like Rudy with that permanent 5 o'clock shadow. I thought and prayed, God if you ever give me a wife, I will love her and treat her like a lady. I wanted so much to have a normal relationship with a woman that loved me and to have children and a family. I told God that if he ever gave me a wife I would never treat her like I saw the many ntcc pastors treat their wives.
After reporting the abuse to Davis they had a 'spiritual retreat' in Myrtle Beach and Rudy and Hummel were both 'disfellowshipped' I decided to follow God with all my heart and do everything I knew and was ever taught to live a life that pleased God. I started filling up my Volkswagen bus with people and bringing them to church and gave my self to studying God's Word and praying. I thanked God for delivering me every day but still was totally baffled by the behavior of the ntcc ministers that I was serving. Beja was my next so called Pastor and he was so laid back and doing things opposite of what all the others taught. He would joke about masturbating all the time, watch faces of death with some of the brothers that had their own houses outside of the servicemen's home and his wife was having an affair with a skinny little black brother. I think his wife was Don Hummel's sister, if memory serves me correct. At this time a bunch of the brothers started attending the Marantha Holiness church in Fayetteville and they all got married. Not me. I still thought I was part of the last move of God on earth.
Medrano, was another abuser, who was extremely full of himself. He convinced Davis to allow me to move back in the home so he could collect my E-5 tithe and home offering gifts, but he would always tell me that I couldn't talk to this sister or that sister. What a manipulative cult.
After four years at Ft. Bragg, I PCS'd to Korea and was stationed at Camp Humphries where I met Rev. Barnes. At the time he had not been to bible school and he actually had Godly love like the kind of love most people experienced from Mom and Pop Gaylord. He was a friend to me and I never felt manipulated by him. He encouraged me to talk to the sister in Korea that Medrano told me I couldn't talk to but the damage had already been done. There was another sister that I started to talk to that was attending Broadnax' church up in the Camp Casey area. It was a four hour train ride and we used to go there every weekend. We actually talked about getting married and had a connection, but she was earmarked for bible school by Broadnax. Mom and Pop wrote me a letter saying that Davis has nothing to do with you being interested in her and that it was alright to write to her, but she was match made with someone who she actually turned out to be pretty compatible with.
After rejecting Broadnax's Homosexual advances towards me, I told Rev. Barnes and he immediately stopped going up north and we stayed at Humphries and started a Servicemen's Home that would be taken over by Tom and Rachel Wright. I decided to attend conference at Holly Hills that year, had never missed one yet, wasn't about to, and Barnes told me to tell Pop Gaylord about Broadnax. I told him and he told Davis. Broadnax was not allowed to go back to Korea and left the ntcc and his wife Juanita. She was really sweet and didn't deserve to be matched with that pervert. Her life seemed to go down hill after that I heard, she was living on the street. The ntcc has left so much carnage in it's wake.
After attending that conference in Holly Hills, I went home to visit my mom for the first time in years and found out that she had cancer. My mom and I were close and I loved her deeply. She told me that she only had 6 months at most to live. It was at this time that I met the most manipulative person that I ever met in the ntcc and it wasn't the Pastor, David Tieman, but it was his wife Nichelle Tieman. They were in Colorado Springs, running a servicemen's home. After making a few trips back and forth for services, the Tiemans tried to convince me that God wanted me to stay in Colorado. The Wrights were reaching out to me with their long arms from Korea, and Davis got involved and told them to knock it off. I decided to stay in Colorado, spent 3 months attached to Fitzsimons Army Medical Center, and then permanently assigned to Ft. Carson, CO. Now my mom was a Christian but she was not a brainwashed cult member. I used to roll joints for her and she would drink and party. Now she attended a Assembly of God church and lived a changed life, loving me, and my two brothers more than anything in the world. When I was in Korea, I persuaded her to drive all the way to Colorado Springs and attend a revival service preached by the preaching machine as he was Dubbed by R-Dub, the great Ashmore. My mom told me that he was the coldest man she had ever met in her life. She was really creeped out by him, more than any minister she had ever been around. She described him as ice cold. Of course, I almost threw my mother under the bus for that one, but her love to me was real and although I disagreed with her, I couldn't ditch her. When she passed away the following year in early April, 1990, Nichelle Tieman asked me why do you pretend that she made it to heaven? She was not living a holy life and therefore she went to hell. Why do people always lie to themselves when their loved ones die? Nichelle Tieman was as wicked as they come. Very comforting words. This transpired because I rejected her sexual advances towards me.
At this time I met Ange, she actually came to my moms funeral to represent our company and because I think she liked me. She was a 35K just like me, an avionics mechanic, or spark chaser and boy did the sparks ever fly. Every where we went, that's where the party was at.
Ange and I loved each other deeply and we would eventually get ripped away from each other in an act of cruelty which made my moms death seem like a small thing in comparison. Nichelle Tieman was a witch and David Tieman was a spineless wimp that allowed the unthinkable to happen. They knew I loved her and they lied to her, using God as an excuse to send her to bible school so they could get a feather in their cap. They were on their way up to bigger and better things. We had so much in common and it was obvious that we were meant for each other. We were the same age, both part Italian with Italian last names. Here I was thinking, that through it all, God was going to bless me, but the blessing never came. I was meant to live out the rest of my miserable days in the ntcc as a celibate.
She ended up going to bible school, getting called back into the Army, and then going back to bible school and marrying Eric Barden. This hurt me more deeply than anything ever has in my entire life. It made me feel like my whole invested life in the ntcc was for nothing. I felt like God hated me and that I would never get married. Slowly my life started to spiral away from God, but none of it was God's fault. I was in a manipulative cult. Good Grief, look at what I went through in 7 years in the ntcc. Was it normal for a Christian to have to go through all that? Is this really what a Christian church was supposed to be all about?
I have talked about God doing this and God doing that with my life in the ntcc. Herein lies the dilemma for everyone in the ntcc. Is God part of a church that is filled with perversion and sex sins? It's not a church it's a cult and it's filled with a bunch of highly trained con artists that are waiting to manipulate you in any way they can. You might start out as a Christian but when they sink their fangs into you, they will literally suck every ounce of life out of you, and when you finish giving your last drop of blood they will take a shovel and scoop you up like a pile of dog crap and throw you over their cold shoulder never to be thought of again.
This is the kind of emotional abuse that I think Julie was talking about. It lasts longer and cuts deeper than anything you would ever imagine. To continue on,at this point I was in denial, and still felt like God had a purpose for my life but life became an uphill battle and it seemed like I was loosing all the battles. I spent another two years in Colorado, and went to Korea a second time. Went back to Augusta and became an instructor, met the Reeds and had a blast, but I was worn down. I was going through the motions and it was only a matter of time. I PCS'd to Ft. Eustis, VA and spent my final 2 years of spiritual death with Dorsie in Newport News. He thought he was doing a work for God but it was about as dead as any church I had ever been in. We had an old run down building and eventually, I just ran out of Gas. It was over for me, I had no more fight in me and started to hate my life and I blamed myself for every stinkin thing I had ever been through. Never at one time did it cross my mind to blame those that manipulated me. Davis profited off of me to the tune of close to $100,000.00 when it was all said and done. My dream of getting married was gone and all I wanted now as sad as it is at 32 years old and single was sex.
I left God and spent the next 14 years of my life trying to find someone that I could love, someone who would love me back, but I was a lost soul and the world was cruel. During this time I discovered life and had a sense of normalcy for the first time. I began to use my brain and work with my hands. I made money and bought a house for the first time. I had friends and was adopted by an older couple who lived across the street. Their entire family became my family, and all of the sudden I found myself surrounded by people that actually had morals and Christian Values, without all the unreasonable expectations. But up to this point, I never met anyone I could love.
So the story does have a happy ending. It's funny how things turn out, when you least expect it, out of nowhere, you get a letter in the mail, but there I was on the road driving a truck throughout the lower 48 states, gone for two months at a time, and I get a call from a friend who was collecting all my mail to see what bills were due, and he said you got a letter from an Angela R. My heart just about exploded inside of my chest. I said open it up and read it.
Is this the same Don T. that was used to call SFC. P. Pumkinhead? She gave me an email address and told me to write her. Two weeks later we were standing in front of a county clerk signing our marriage license. As great as this was, it wasn't the best thing that happened. I don't want to get all religious on you all but before I could marry Ange, I really felt like there was something bigger than both of us missing in my life. I was smoking two packs of cigarettes a day and drinking a lot of burbon and whiskey. I didn't want to bring this into Ange's life, but most of all, I didn't want to kill myself either. I knew what I had to do, but thought it was impossible. I told all of this to Ange, but she began to show me a merciful God that was not sitting in heaven with lightning bolts wanting to strike me down, but she shared the mercy and love of God with me through scriptures that I already knew. What I thought was impossible was one of the easiest things I ever did and at that moment I realized that in spite of everything I ever did, God never stopped loving me. I prayed and envisioned myself at Calvary. I asked for some of that blood to wash me and I started where I left off, but there was a huge difference. I no longer felt the need to impress a man, there was no pressure to follow a whole bunch of rules or set of controls made by another man. It was so different this time, because I was free from the cult.
I'm sharing this not to come across as super spiritual, because I'm not, and I don't believe that is what God wants from people. My eyes opened after I asked God into my life again. I immediately realized that what I went through in the ntcc was wrong and that they were so far from Christianity.
The last three and a half years of my life, have been spent unlearning the ntcc doctrine. I read the bible and strip away all the erroneous teachings we were taught and do my best to do what Jesus really wants. It's not that hard when you separate His teachings from what was injected into our minds by the ntcc cult leaders. I swear to anyone reading this blog and everyone I know or have ever known, Christianity comes down to one simple rule. If you do this one thing and one thing only, you will find yourself in heaven at the end of your journey. Duet. 6:5 "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." I promise you, if you do this, heaven will be your home. It's really that simple, and if you do this, this one other thing will happen as a result. You will love your neighbor as your self. It's in the New Testament too, so don't freak on me. On these two commandments you can hang all the law and prophets.
There you have it, my whole story, well just about everything I can think of told again, as my heart was led to share.
Well, it seems lame compared to this heart-rending outpouring that Don just wrote, but I did leave some comments on Julie's story, part 3 of I Have a Name. Click Here if you want to see them. :o)
Don and Ange said...
It still hurts to read about this cruelty. I'm thankful for the tears I cry. It let's me know I'm human....
Wow that just shows that you truly have the love of God for others that it can move you to that point. When one say they are shocked, makes them cry, their heart hurts for what has taken place it is medicine to our souls for it is one more reminder not everyone out there would have this happen to us and it truly is not our fault. The more we hear it the more we can believe it.
DNA said....Mal 4:2
But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
This scripture has an amazing message. To get its clear meaning we must look at the verse before it.
For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
God will make the wickedly fell into their own traps and they will be destroyed and be no longer able to hurt anyone.
Those that are hurt that turn to the Lord for healing will be healed coming forth a new the wounds will be as nothing for they will go forth in freedom.
This verse is a verse of promise to us.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA said....
Julie told me the "abuse no matter what form....cuts to the core of the soul
I have seen all forms.....the hardest abuse to overcome is verbal and spiritual for it carries more damage."
That's hard to imagine when you learn of the bare wire beatings and flyswatter beatings and more. But it is true. It's backed up by the scriptures.
Here are the reasons emotional, verbal, and spiritual abuse is more damaging than other forms of abuse.
First of all emotional/verbal abuse is so damaging for it becomes a record in our minds that is so hard to shut off.
Spiritual abuse is the worse for it shuts out the very help one needs most and that is God Himself. God is the one that can bring healing to all forms of abuse but when God has been made out to be something He is not people turn from the help they need most of all.
Faithfully commented being there with unconditional love, saying sometimes the same things over and over can be what changes it all.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA said....
Speaking of different kinds of abuse, I had an alcoholic Step Father. He very seldom beat me physically thank God, but the emotional beat downs took years to recover from. I used to dread hearing the garage door open and his footsteps coming up the stairs. I'm sharing this because the psychology behind it is similar to what Julie was sharing and it leaves scars that take a long time to heal from. My Step father did a good job of preparing me for the ntcc. He convinced me that I was stupid, by telling me that over and over. Keep in mind, my step Father was abusive and he did beat me a couple times, once with a two by four, but he never physically hurt me very bad and never did anything sexually to me like someone recently suggested on an anonymous blog comment that ended up in the delete file. He was a rot gut sinner, but he wasn't even anywhere close in the neighborhood of Ralph, Joan or Barbara. About 15 years ago my step father quit drinking and he's actually mellowed out a lot and his heart has changed. No excuses for damage done though.
I hate when people suffer in the least. Thank you for putting this here in the comments. It is so important to know what others have gone through even before NTCC abuse of any kind can help others in the healing process.
Even if someone shares of an insult on them or a time of humiliation sharing can help them as well as others that have been hurt.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA said...
When I joined the Army at 18 years old, I really was unsure of myself and had an inferiority complex. When you are beat down all the time mentally it's hard to mature because all of your faults are magnified. The Army helped me in some ways physically and mentally to become tough, but I was ripe for the picking to become a brainwashed cult member at 18 years old. I was a broken soul looking for something to believe in, and along comes the ntcc, with their love bombing and it worked. Someone finally believed in me or so I thought.
Well between being so young and wounded on top of it. You were available target to have salt unknowingly poured into your wounds making them last longer. When one doesn't know the truth anything different can seem like truth.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA said.... we drove to Fayetteville, NC where I got to meet my next pastor, Don Hummel. I hadn't received the gift yet, so the brothers all gathered around the altar and were rocking me back and forth and screaming and crying and I started speaking in tongues. I think it was real though because a few nights later in the barracks at Ft. Benning one of my roomates said I woke him up speaking in Hebrew. Plus I was finally able to get rid of cigarettes without any withdrawals. My heart was in the right place but my mind was in no way prepared for what I was about to face in Ft. Bragg.
They scared many people with how they would pray/scream over them. I watched it many times and it still scared the freaking daylights of me when they would do it to me. I still remember as a young child being told to hold up someone's arm and to scream at them whatever phrase they gave me to say at that time. I was totally confused on why I had to scream at them.
Thankfully your heart was in the right place even though theirs was not. I am glad you had a heart for God. I am glad you were able to get free the cigarettes at this time.
I don't think anyone can ever be fully prepared for unexcepted abuse. I am happy you got free from all that mess.
Hugs,
Julie
Lisa said:
"The 26 of dec Lori and I and my family had white castles it was our Christmas meal... Lori and I would look at each other going Barbara never loved me her mom died she was wonderful. It was like how do we start life Lori looked at me and said one day at a time"
DNA said:
At least you had each other and you were rid of the abuser. I'm not sure why things happen the way they do, only God knows. Davis had 4 decades to repent, but never has because true repentance will not allow the victims to continue suffering. Davis used to make blanket statements, like: "If I've offended anyone, please forgive me". That's not repentance that's stomping on someone while they are down. True repentance would have been to step down from his high and lofty position as leader of the ntcc, and admit that he had sinned. Most of them get caught and then they cry their crocodile tears, but Davis has a really hard heart and he will never own up to his perversions.
The only thing he could really do at this point would be to sell all of his assets and split the proceeds up among the victims, issue a public apology to the victims by name, and desolve the ntcc or find someone honest like Bro. Armer to restructure it and replace all the abusers with folks that will serve in Love.
Love is all that was left after Davis had Barbara abandon her family. They took everything and left nothing but on that 26th day of December, Lisa, Lori, Terry and Lisa's Dad ate white castles together as their Christmas dinner. All they had left was each other and they were left broken in a million pieces that would take years to put back together, but that one night they shared the one thing that Davis and Barbara could not take away and that was the bond of love they had for each other. That is what is missing in the ntcc. If you take away every possession from Davis and Kekel, the only thing left would be misery and filth, hate and bitterness. You are greatly loved by God also, and even though it might not seem like it, you will always be loved.
Mark, I published your first comment because it was objective and it supported the purpose and cause of this blog. Your second comment is calling Julie a liar. You come right out and say that you don't believe her. You express more doubt than support. This blog is not factnet, in fact we have moderated it so people will not have to worry about people like you trying to tear them down. You find it hard to believe all the things that Julie went through, but you do believe most of it, or so you say. You say that you don't believe that Joan and Ralph could both be that bad. I do believe that both Joan and Ralph were rotten to the core and there are witnesses that corroborate a lot of what she went through.
Now I've fully explained what this blog is all about and if you want to continue to slander us for trying to provide a safe place for victims to share their stories than you'll have to find another vehicle for that. Since Julie shared her testimony others have come forward. I don't care if you believe them or not. If you want to start a youtube video by all means have at it. This is a free country and I am exercising my freedom to blog.
Why are you projecting your outrage towards me and this blog and the victims of ntcc abuse? The ntcc is the source of all the mayhem that has been created in the lives of it's former members.
In fairness to you, I published your first comment because it was objective and you have supported this blog in times past when very few have. I'm not trying to kick you off of this blog, but I will not publish anything that disparages Julie, Pam, Lisa, Lori, or any of these victims who have bravely laid out their personal lives for everyone to see. They did it to help others. Julie spends hours talking to victims that are afraid to come forward, and so do some of these other women. There are many people out there that have shared horrible things that you probably wouldn't believe either. Just because you don't believe them doesn't mean that they didn't happen.
I will restate the purpose of this blog so that you will know what is acceptable and what is not. We are here to help former victims of the ntcc. This blog is a safe haven for people to share their stories and testimonies of what they went through while in the ntcc. The ntcc was allowed to use their pulpits to tear people down and nobody was allowed to question or refute anything they said. This is not a place for you or anyone, I don't care who they are, To dump on people that are pouring out their souls. People have shared their hesitation to comment because others will attack them. It's not going to happen here. We are moderated for a reason.
The ntcc have not come forward to clear anything up or to refute anything since Briggs owned his comments on Chief's blog. They have had their chance to admit their wrong doing but they never have not admitted to anything. People are now coming forward and I'm sure that there are many out there that want to dispute what is being shared. Of course there are ntcc'rs and those who still defend the ntcc out there that want to dispute things. I wanted to dispute things that were being shared by the 14 pastors that brainwashed me and force fed their doctrine to me, but the ntcc was not a democracy. The women that have come forward on this blog would have been run out on a rail, if they would have shared anything that they went through. Look what happened to Fontenot's wife, when she tried to get help from Olson and Kekel. They didn't believe her. I wonder how you would have handled that situation, Mark? Probably the same way Olson and Kekel handled it. They told her to find another church and then let the child molester and rapist lurk among them. If you would have expressed more doubt toward Fontenot's wife than belief, she would have probably done the same thing she did. She prayed and God told her, you are at the wrong place, you should be at the Police station, and that's where she went. It is really sick when you think of it. Are these really the type of people you want to defend?
Mark G. said:
" However, “Anonymous” does raise some good points"
Anonyomous said:
"This "I have a Name" series is an over reaching, steaming pile of BS"
DNA said: By the way Mark, we never took down the Anonymous comment, we left part of it visible and made the rest a link. You showed more support for anonymous than you did for Julie.
Mark G. said in a comment that will not be published:
"By the time I finished reading part 4 I felt that the things that were being said were so outrageous that I simply could NOT believe them"
DNA said:
So that's not calling her a liar?
Mark G. said:
" But I think that some of what she is saying are simply lies woven into the truth to make the story more readable and exciting."
DNA said:
So, Mark, that's not calling her a liar?
Mark G. said in a comment that I will not post:
"Don, I did NOT call her a liar".
Mark G. said in a comment that I will not post:
"Sure, it's your blog, but don't put words into my mouth. It's time to move on."
DNA said:
Sounds wishy washy to me. You are all over the map on this one. You wrote some really off colored remarks that we will not publish. You basically mocked Julie and the only reason that I've published this much of what you shared is because Julie is strong and she can take it, and I'm sure others will have a lot to share on this topic.
Brother Don, and Sister Ange, you both are doing more for God by publishing this blog, and allowing the victims of sexual, and spiritual abuse, to stand together and confront this cult.
These young women were alone, and forsaken by the corrupt hirelings who should have been there to protect, and defend them.
I believe all that you ladies have shared, and it makes me sick to think that I supported these crooks, and their cronies. Pop Gaylord would have called the police.
You girls keep on posting, I pray for your strength, and couage. You have a platform, a podium, and a message for all of us, and those sincere souls still trapped in ntcc bondage. You are making a difference, just google ntcc, and you see your words....
Mark G. said:
"If you don't want me to post anymore, then just tell me not to."
DNA said:
You are welcome to post as long as you stay in the clearly defined guidelines. That goes for anyone. Most everyone that has been commenting since these stories have broken, seem to understand this and they are all complying with it. Anonymous got the message apparently, and has not posted anything obnoxious since his first and only comment.
This is an anti cult blog. We believe that cults have a history of sexual abuse and that Julies testimony is not only believable but from all of the patterns of sexual perversion exhibited by the ntcc's founder, R.W. Davis, It is very conceivable that not only is everything that Julie is saying true, but also there is a lot more that we have yet to hear that would make your ears tingle. If you think Julie's testimony is far fetched you need to do some research on other cults and the sexual misconduct carried out by their leaders. Study FLDS and WOFF and other cults. Just do a google search of sexual perversion in cults. We already know from the facts and testimonies that have been shared that the ntcc is a perverse cult. Do you have any idea how easy it is to hide sexual crimes in a religious cult? You don't think it's possible for a young girl to get pregnant in the ntcc? Just because you didn't notice it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It has been reported on the blogs that bible school students had been forced to get abortions. Do you think Pam told a bunch of Lies? Do you think Lisa lied about being raped by Johnny Jordan and being pregnant at 15 years old?
To me this is just getting stupid. You can believe whatever you want to believe. I don't put anything past these cult leaders. I've seen enough corruption with my own eyes to last 10 lifetimes.
All they care about is money and they will destroy people and use them and sexually abuse them for their own gratification and this is one place, the only place that many of the victims feel safe sharing with others what they went through and you are hell bent on interrogating them for their honesty?
Somebody needs a check-up from the neck up!
Mark,
I'm so disappointed in you. In times past you presented yourself as a man who cares about women.
Now I read your comments and it seems to me that you are more worried about what people think about you, than you are worried about what happened to defenseless young girls in the NTCC.
You say you would support them? How can you?
If you want to help somebody, you have to LISTEN TO THEM.
Mark,
You seem quite distraught that we have not published all your comments.
You seem upset that you do not have a voice here.
Yet you, by your comments, would silence these victims of abuse.
Is that really what you want?
What if your wife told you she was raped?
What if she was raped as a defenseless child in a church that had such strict controls she had nowhere to go, no escape, no help from anyone outside the strict controls of the group?
Have you at least considered this?
Have you ever gone to a Doctor for an illness?
What was the first thing they did?
When you saw the Doctor, did he or she ask you what was wrong, what were you feeling, where was the pain or problem?
Did he or she listen?
Or did he or she tell you "I'd like to support you, BUT..."
I've read your unpublished comments. 99% of the comments say something. Only 1% says I'd like to support you.
That alone leads me to believe it's not true. How can you profess support in such a weak fashion and expect us to take it seriously?
It leads us to believe you have an entirely different agenda here. One that points to Mark defending his friends Ralph and Joan St. Clair.
You know, loyalty can be a good thing. But it can also become a fault or flaw when it blinds us to the truth.
The Germans under Hitler were loyal.
If we are going to err, would it not be best to err on the side of the defenseless?
Why haven't Ralph and Joan come forth to explain their side?
Why do you feel you need to take up for them?
How do you explain the witnesses who state that Joan denies having a daughter? Independent witnesses have stated this. They were stunned at the audacity of Joan's lie.
Shouldn't you consider this lie as proof of her willingness to tell multiple lies?
What about the other children and adults who have witnessed other people spanking children in ntcc who were not their own children?
Doesn't that tell you that other people were indeed spanking children that were not their own?
This stuff to me is so obvious. I understand wanting to believe in a friend, but only to a point. When the evidence and multiple witnesses verify that something was indeed awry, it's time to consider that your 'friend' has duped you and lied to you.
Did you know the bible says:
Pro 26:28
A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin.
I don't blame you for not liking being categorized as "wishy washy". That is not a name I'd want. But does it fit your actions?
Have you gone on the record that you really dislike Tanya Davis Kekel, yet seem completely enarmoured with her mother Verna? You profess that you thought she was good looking and seemed thrilled that she came up to you at a restaurant not too long ago and hugged you.
YUCK. To me, as is the Mother, so is the Daughter. Everything you dislike about Tanya Kekel she learned from Verna and Rodger. Don't you see that?
If that isn't double-minded or wishy washy, I don't know what is. They are exactly alike in spirit and purpose and pompous sense of entitlement. Both are bossy. One may be more subtil (Gen. 3:1) about it, but just as bossy. So approving of one and disapproving of the other makes no sense to me. It seems wishy washy or double-minded as if you are waffling.
I used to think you were a gentleman who respected women and would not hurt a woman.
Was I wrong to think that?
How can you read these accounts and not feel for their plight?
I'm going to pray for you. I'm going to pray that God will give you the answer and the grace to receive it. Because right now I feel in doubt of your ability to receive that grace on your own.
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone just prayed that the truth about ntcc would come out? But how can it? People need a voice. So should we stifle those who are sharing their stories?
Disappointed. Just so disappointed.
Mark,
You are right. I was wrong about Verna hugging you. I read the thread again and it was actually Don who she hugged, and you were surprised by that since the ntcc used to teach against that for people of the opposite sex (gender).
I'm not looking for anti-ntcc comments. I'm looking for the truth.
I also want to create an environment where victims of abuse feel safe sharing their stories without fear of people accusing them of lying or telling them outlandish things like it was their fault.
I feel there are elements in your comments that would harm these girls who have suffered enough already. If you can write something supportive or neutral that doesn't do that, I will post it.
Here's a link for your comment about your encounter with the Davises at the Black Bear Diner:
Click here If you read the subsequent comments you will see how I made that mistake. I do apologize for that. I'm not perfect. And I'm not going to ever claim that I am either. :o)
I would like to encourage all brothers and sisters who have any kind of a disabilities to read 1 COR: 20-26 Paul teaches how important all members of the body is, and how those who are feeble are to bestowed more abundant honor. However ntcc is not apart of the body so they look down on those who are not the cream of the crop or have disabilities.
Maurice,
Very good points. Thanks for the comment.
I Cor 12:20-26
Hi all,
This is Diana Taylor. For many years I was involved in this organization. To some of you some things may sound unbelievable, but I have to say that you need to read and listen with an open heart.
I was a victim of sexual abuse...for many years I did not talk about it because I thought I would not be believed. It is really hard for a victim of any kind of abuse to come out right away. Only those that have been through it can relate! Those that have never been through such a thing are the ones that will come out and say that they (meaning the person abused) was the cause of their abuse.
Mark, I can understand somewhat why you are sceptical about what these girls are saying. I just want to say to please be patient. There are others, but because of their fear they are not coming out. I can appreciate these girls bravery for coming out. Don't be so hard on them!
I have shared some things with Don N Ange and it will come out in a future post.
Eight Ways To Support A Victim of Abuse
What You Can Do To Help A Victim Of Abuse
What are the dynamics that allow abuse to continue in the church?
Abuse flourishes when adults do not take responsibility for protecting children. Many church leaders would rather avoid this difficult topic, and so they do not understand how abusers operate. Abusers are almost always people in positions of trust who know the child. In fact, they go out of their way to appear trustworthy. Abusers take advantage of well meaning but naïve adults and use the trust they earned to gain access to a child. They are master manipulators. They disarm with a façade of generosity and kindness. They often set adults and children up to feel as if they are in the abuser’s debt. With our doctrine of sin, we in the church should be least likely to fall prey to this, but sadly we do.
Abusers not only manipulate adults, but the children they abuse. Children are extremely vulnerable in every way – physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and sexually. Abusers exploit a child’s vulnerability for their own ends. Some abusers find out what interests a child and use that knowledge to lure that child into an isolated place. Some abusers use twisted theology to convince kids they have done something sinful, and they cannot tell anyone or else God and their parents will not love them anymore. Some abusers threaten to harm the child or a family member if they tell. Kids almost always assume the adults are right, especially in the church, and abusers use this reality to silence their victims and escape detection.
For decades, adults have put the burden on children to come forward if they are being abused. This status quo has failed. Because abusers spin a web of manipulation and lies around a child, children cannot protect themselves and rarely tell about abuse without another adult’s help. While teaching our kids about their bodies and sexual boundaries are vital, these actions alone cannot keep kids safe. Adults must take that burden off children. The antidote to child sexual abuse is faithful adults working together to create a safe environment for children.
Five Colorado church leaders covered up information about a youth pastor who allegedly sexually assaulted a female church attendee starting when she was 15, claim Boulder police officials.
Law enforcement have accused Vinelife Church executive pastor Robert Phillip "Bob" Young, pastor Luke Humbrecht, pastor Edward Bennell, church elder Warren Lloyd Williams and another member of the leadership team who is currently out of the country, of failing to report the alleged sexual abuse to law enforcement or human service officials.
Police arrested youth pastor Jason Allen Roberson, 35, on Sept. 4, "charging him with one count of sexual assault on a child by a person in a position of trust; one count of sexual exploitation of a child and one count of unlawful sexual contact," according to 7NEWS. The Boulder County District Attorney office later "added one count of stalking,"
However, in police reports recently disclosed to 7NEWS, "VineLife Church initially refused" to give authorities reports from a therapist whom the church had requested work with Roberson. It also ignored a court order on July 11 to turn over records of the church's internal investigation.
It was only "after the Boulder District Attorney's office warned of possible contempt charges for failure to comply with a court order," police Detective Brannon Winn wrote in a report, that VineLife Church acquiesced.
According to the church's statement, its had tried to stay quiet about the allegations because "it was the understanding of the Church leadership that the former employee did not want this matter to be made public."
Subsequently, "the Church sought and obtained legal counsel, who indicated that the Church leadership would not violate Colorado law by not reporting the incident given the current age of the victim. Soon after the former employee gave notice to the Church, she reported the incident to the City of Boulder Police Department."
The alleged victim, who is currently 24 and previously worked for the church, told police in May that her relationship with Roberson began when she was 15 and continued for the next seven years.
"[The victim] trusted (Roberson) as an authority figure and spiritual guide, and felt uncomfortable disclosing the relationship to others," police said.
Eventually, she resigned from her position and moved out of the area, reported the arrest affidavit. In March, she returned to meet with church leaders and discussed her relationship with Roberson for two hours. While soon after, the youth pastor was suspended from his position and an internal investigation launched, Pastors Bob Young and Ed Bennel and church elder Warren Williams never reported the incident to law enforcement.
While it is still unclear the extent of the relationship between Roberson and the victim, documents released in the July court order revealed that "Jason Roberson has repeatedly confessed to church officials that he has touched (the victim's) breasts on multiple occasions," the affidavit stated.
The affidavit also alleged that after church leaders put Roberson under a polygraph, he also admitted groping the alleged victim while she was under 18.
Roberson also admitted to touching her breasts though he did not clarify whether she was under or over the age of consent and said that the girl had unintentionally seen a picture of his penis on his cellphone.
He also admitted to watching her change through the windows, though according to the affidavit, "he had stopped watching (the teen) prior to seeing her nude."
On Roberson's personal website, he describes himself as a "son, husband, and father" who loves "the songs and sounds that unveil the heart of God in his people."
A former youth pastor pled guilty this morning to molesting a boy last year whom he met through the youth program at Heritage Christian Church, officials said.
Nathan Donald Moore, 25, was sentenced to 30 years in prison and once he is released will be on probation for the remainder of his life, according to Fayette County Assistant District Attorney David Younker.
Moore came into contact with the victim at Heritage Christian Church through the church’s youth program, Younker said.
Moore entered guilty pleas to all 11 charges filed in the case: eight counts of aggravated child molestation, two counts of child molestation and one count of enticing a child for indecent purposes. The incidents spanned from March through August of 2011 and happened at Moore’s residence on the southern edge of Fayette County.
The positive outcome of the case was due in large part to the cooperation of the victim and the work of Fayette County sheriff’s detective Josh Shelton, Younker said.
“In child molestation cases it’s very rare that you’re able to secure a confession,” Younker said. “Josh secured a full confession from the defendant over several conversations. It was amazing and it was very, very skillful.”
The victim gave a statement to the court Monday morning after Moore decided to plead guilty instead of go through a jury trial. Younker said it was impressive how the victim was able to stand up in the courtroom and address Moore, looking him in the eye.
“He is one of the bravest victims I have ever seen,” Younker said. “He’s been through so, so much.”
Younker said while nothing can “fix” what happened to the victim, hopefully the resolution of the case will help him and his family “have the ability to take their first step forward.”
“Between the victim’s bravery and the detective’s skill, Fayette County is a safer place,” Younker said.
When Moore was arrested in November, Heritage Christian Pastor Doug Fultz confirmed that Moore was fired from the church prior to the allegations coming to light. Fultz said Moore was let go because “he was taking the youth ministry in a different direction than the church thought was necessary.”
Heritage Christian, with a congregation of more than 1,100, is a non-denominational church that is affiliated with the Independent Christian Churches organization.
Two noteworthy things about this case:
1. “In child molestation cases it’s very rare that you’re able to secure a confession,” Younker said. “Josh secured a full confession from the defendant over several conversations. It was amazing and it was very, very skillful.”
The victim gave a statement to the court Monday morning after Moore decided to plead guilty instead of go through a jury trial. Younker said it was impressive how the victim was able to stand up in the courtroom and address Moore, looking him in the eye.
“He is one of the bravest victims I have ever seen,” Younker said. “He’s been through so, so much.”
2. When Moore was arrested in November, Heritage Christian Pastor Doug Fultz confirmed that Moore was fired from the church prior to the allegations coming to light.
This boy that came forward did so in rare fashion. The women that have come forward on this blog fit into the same category. It's very rare for a victim to confess to what they went through. We are here to support these Women, not to shoot them down in disbelief.
Notice how the predator was fired from the church before the allegations ever came forward. Not in the ntcc, they will hide predators from Law enforcement and allow them to lurk among children, ignoring the chance that that predator might strike again.
It was a series of tormented phonecalls from a terrified teenage girl which finally brought the horror to an end.
The 16-year-old had broken her silence to report a distressing catalogue of unimaginable abuse.
Her voice hushed and barely audible, she told a local family violence refuge how her 50-year-old husband beat and raped her.
He had hit her in the chest, broken her ribs, choked and sexually assaulted her. And he had allowed her no contact with the outside world.
Weeping, the girl told the horrified operator she was pregnant, and that she was just one of her husband's seven wives. She said she had already given birth to one of his children when she was just 15.
Wow, Thats just too much to believe, this girl must have been weaving lies in with the truth, because everyone knows that there is no way a cult leader could be that evil.
I said that sarcastically when in all actuality, what this girl went through was horrifying. This brave Girl who was 15 and pregnant and had already given birth to one of Warren Jeff's children triggered an investigation which landed Jeff's in prison for life which is where he belongs. If the 911 operator, would have disbelieved this girls story or compared her to the movie psycho, Jeff's would still be abusing women today. Is that something you would want to be responsible for Mark G?
I've been told by a lot of people that Mark G. is a good guy and that he's just having a hard time believing this and that, and he's a christian and he just wants his voice heard. Whatever. I woke up this morning resolved to let it go and just ignore him, and that's probably what I'm going to do after this comment.
Then I got to praying and thinking about some of the things he said about Julie, and his attitude overall towards what we are trying to accomplish here. Mark, I'm not really sure what your goals are or why you feel it is so important to discredit Julie or anyone else that shares what they suffered through on this blog.
This blog has become our life work, and we have bonded with many of the folks that have commented over the years. We have made lasting friendships but I have to say, getting to know Julie, Lisa, Pam and Lori has been really special and a gift to us, and not just because of what they have shared. When you get to know these women, they are fun to talk to, they have families and children and they have learned to survive. I have a place in my heart for victims of abuse. When I first went public on Jeff's blog, there were people that came forward and tried to discredit me for what I shared. If Jeff would have expressed disbelief in what I shared, it probably would have been enough to make me stop blogging about it. Jeff was very supportive of me and believed everything I shared. In fact I got an outpouring of support from so many of the X-ers that believed in what we were doing and many validated our testimony. It was difficult, however, and there were some that had the exact same attitude: "There is no way you could have gone through all that". Three homosexual pastors and a pastors wife that committed adultery. A series of people that had been around during that time verified bits and pieces until the whole thing was verified.
I feel that what these women went through as children is horrifying beyond belief. I believe all of what Julie has shared, not just bits and pieces. We have made a commitment to help these women in any way we can. If You feel that we aren't being fair to you by sharing your comments with them, then do what ever you think is right. The truth always prevails and we are going to stay on course. This is probably the last thing I'm going to say on this subject. If you start a youtube channel and go public with whatever issues you have, I hope you aim your public disputes at us, and not at Julie or any of these women. What if you are wrong? You say we cherry picked the portions of your comments that we wanted to publish, but much of what we didn't share are the nastiest of your comments unpublished, but we have a permanent record. If we were to publish them all, our readers would probably think a lot less of you than they do now. Whatever happens we are doing what we feel is right and in the best interest of all parties involved. I have found that every time we stand up for the victims of abuse that we are doing the right thing. We knew when these stories came out that there would be those that would fight to silence them. No hard feelings here, we will continue this on in the direction we are going.
I will return to MY CHURCH, WHEN MY GOD REPLACES THOSE CORRUPT BUMS, AND BRINGS JUSTICE to all who have suffered in silence.
Random Thinking,I personally do not know Mark!!!But I believe that he's distracting you from this blog,and is wanting a lot of attention...Maybe he is in denial,and is crying out for help,maybe the truth really does hurt,and he's ashamed what has happen or what is happening....Just Saying...Lori....XXXMember
Good points Lori.
We'll, Davis' time on this earth has expired. He died this morning according to Tanya Kekel on her twitter account. I am glad that people came forward and made his deeds public before his death. He already knew that he had committed those terrible acts years ago, but now so does everyone else.
I'm not rejoicing in his death, but he has made a lot of people suffer during his life time. Now it makes a lot of sense how all powers were transferred over to Kekel via new bylaws a couple months ago. Many folks have different beliefs about judgement and such, but I will say that if you believe the bible, then there is no question where Davis is now. It's sad in a lot of ways because it is final and it is God being just.
When I say it is sad, I'm not talking about tears of sorrow streaming down from my eyes but all of the chances he had to make things right and he just hardened his heart all the way until the end.
He dodged judgement on this earth for many decades, but as we know this life is just a vapor, a spark that is flies into the evening sky forever extinguished in darkness. The thought of a soul going out into eternity with so many grievous deeds done and never a gesture of remorse towards the victims.
It is also posted on their site at www.myntcc.org of his passing. I agree while I'm not rejoicing, I'm also not grievous. I rejoice because he can no longer hurt others but I grieve because I know what his judgment holds. The minions are rejoicing for him today thinking he has a great welcoming but many know the truth about him and that is a sad welcoming full of whatever punishment our Great and Mighty Creator has chosen for him.
It is finished are the only words we can all agree on. His victims still are haunted by his past. But God is a just God.
I'm sure they'll be making a spectacle of the funeral. If everyone RW ever shafted showed up they would far outnumbner the mourners.
Now the deification process can begin while the younger generation refines his plundering ways.
I do want to explain to everybody what a wonderful person my brother Terry was. I was 15yrs old but Terry was 21 with a mind of a 7yr old or 8 yr old.. With Terry those of you who knew him knew he had a big heart he loved everyone. In his heart everybody was lis friend. He knew everybody. He was used to going to the police depart. He would walk everywhere. The police would give him a badge told him he was a cop the funny thing was. He really believed. He was a officer. Lol. He went to the vp fair told these ladies he was a cop and he needed to search them we'll they had to take the badge away
Anyway this lady named Becky was my friend they would visit all the Baptist church and she would always talk about this guy name Terry how wonderful he was they would take collections up to buy him clothes . One night I was waitTing for Becky they. Where going to sing in church here comes my brother Terry I looked at him and said cool you decided to come to church with. Me.. Becky came. Up and she was like how do you know Terry I told her he is my brother she gave me a big hug we talked on the phone so many times never knew it was her.. We hug each other I thanked her so much
Becky and her family owned a farm where Terry would go help them they lived in Barn Heart. They where the greatest people .. I believe this my sister PAm said there are times God brings people into your li to help you out.....they where very protective of Terry. When Barbara stayed away Terry would listen to the Bennets and myself. But she came to visit it was hell he would cry and lose control. There was nothing I could do he is 6ft tall. I am only4ft11. He loved the pastor they would tell Terry let's just prAy and they told Terry if you ever needs us you can stay with us they loved all over Terry was very kind to him
People would ask him to help move furniture he did it they paid him.. Although he was a tall man his mind was like a child if he got mad he would throw a fit I just sat there and let him he hardly ever did that but there was those time. It again he was a child.. I loved him so much with all my heart there was nothing I wouldn't do for him.......Lori he loved her he like to pick on her. So we lived with my dad I made sure every Easter he had a basket and new clothes to wear to church. I made sure every Holiday That we had the biggest dinners I would stay up all night and cook lots of food I wanted to make sure every Holiday was special
Christmas afar the one Barbara left he looked at me and he said there is no Santa Clause I looked at him and said. How do you know he said mom told me and I always only got one or two things.. I told I will make a deal with you if you wake up on Christmas morning and there is more then two presents will you believe he said yes..that year I worked so hard for him to have the best Christmas.. I bought a real tree decorated and bought him a lot of present and I bought my dad a couple .. We woke up and he seen all the presents he looked at me and said there really is a Santa I told him only if you believe
I did exactly as Lori said I lived and tried really hard to be a good mom to Terry. I made sure once the house was done and all the clothes where cleaned and dinner I had my time for a couple of hours to be a child with Lori Vikki and all of our friend and my husband he was a kid the boys would pick on I would tell them they have to come through me first.
I was here playing mom and ding without so Terry would have stuff. While she was up there playing. With the ladies of the church I was here taking care of responsibilities. She had fun I am sure finding a new husband having a nice little honeymoon I was here being a mom for her....I don't know what happened to Rod or what they did to him he came back he was so mean and nasty. After a week we sent him back . Avid the dinner at the funeral we all where paid for that food so everybody who even visited the funeral home had food..
As time went on things where fine because Terry he came and went I always knew where he was. When Rod came back the second time to stay forever like I said he came back and man he was a pistol Nd a half. Rod and I would fist fight he was something else. Finally zi looked at my dad and told him I am leaving he was crying I told him I can't live with Rod anymore .. Rod was taking care of dad. Avid Terry. He sold my dad's house. He was mean to Terry. He bought him and his we a new house and moved my dad in he was so upset I told him this was going to happen.
I called the division of aging on Rod they where going to Florida spending his. Money and they where mean to him and Terry. I called Terry counselor I found them a home they both can live togather share a room and be togather they would have around the clock care .. That day I became power of attorney for both of them. My dad wanted me to take him to all these banks he said he had. Only in them all the banks said That the money was gone they showed him a picture of Rod and his wife going in there and cleaning him dry. He was crying he got three dollars out of all of his money
I did take care of Terry and dad but it was real hard because Terry was use to going all the time and they had a st time 9pm. He had to be in.. They would call me all hours of the night. To find Terry. I would find him downtown. Driving at 12am with my brand new little girl who was a infant to find him. Going to the home giving him a shower and his Jed's because my dad and Terry would not take any of there medicine unless I was there... I would go to his home fix up his room bought all kinds of toys we had TV Atari. DVD. Anything I could think of to entertain him.... He would still run
When I had my first stomach surgery. I just got home from the hospital Terry was ripping his clothes off and if I didn't come up and calm him down they where going to throw him out. I went staples and all barely able to walk . I put him in the car I was like look if you are good take your meds. And listen for 2weeks when I am better we will go to Toys R Ud I will let you pick out whatever you want. He was good for the 2 weeks. Then he started his stuff again. My dad I will tell him look if you or good and take your me I will buy you lots of candy and give you money it always worked for him...
He got kicked out of that home I found him another home and left dad where he was he was happy. I was getting ready to have another surgery. Terry wouldn't listen he wanted his helmet back after that surgery and that surgerys that. Followed I kept ripping open I think from coming out of the hospital. And driving try to find him. The whole time my mom would call me up and tell me of and over I was trash. No good whatever. She never sent him a birthday card Monday anything. My dad. Was getting ready to die Terry came and seen him at was even worse he just crying and crying
I called Brenda and was like look I can't do this by myself I am trying to work and had my daughter. And Terry. .. I told my dad while I had his hand that when we gets to Heaven please watch over me and his grand kid I told him I loved. Him. Fad told him your going to find out things going on in my life give me the strength. I need. He took one last. Reach and died ..... It broke my heart . So again it was TERRY AND I. and my daughter . Brrenda did start. Helping me with Terry on the weekends. It got to the point I wake up take the kid to school go to work pick her up make sure she eats and go to Terry home
We went from home to home I could not get him to listen he wasn't use to that I had no room. I could leave him at my house because he would leave the doors unlocked he talked on the phone gave us a judge bill. I can't even tell you how many homes we went through. I would talk to him he would be good for a while then he would go back to his ways.. I had meetings with counselor a for Terry parents are teachers for my girl and non stop servers. The older I got the more sick I got between Terry and I and my girl. We lived at the doctors office. I got to the point I wouldn't let Terry know when came up
Barbara. Got so mad one day she aid my dad had money hid in the house he wanted to tell her I told the hospital no.. I still stand by that because I did not know he was hiding money it would have helped me in buying clothes for. Him and Terry. She wa married to John and wanted to see him she just said he said he wanted to see her we'll this is how I feel you left so the money. Not yours and whoever bought that home must have found because they where fixing it up and all of a sudden they disappered Who cars ..
I called Barbara told her look I am ging through A nasty Devorce. You have to take care of Terry I found out she signed him over to the state if I knew that I would have stayed what kind of person signs there kid over to the state. Terry got real ill. I was at the hospital when he died I told him Terry go there is nothing here left for you please go see Jesus you will have more love then you ever had.. He died.. The funeral Barbara took charge it made me so mad. The preacher there from her church kept saying we'll I never knew Terry. We know you only said thAt 10 times
She ayed songs like Jesus loves me for a funeral.. To be honest it should have been everyone of his brothers and sisters should of told,about a memory they had with him.. The Bennets should have been able to sing and wanted to so bad but Barabara told her no she was the mom we'll she wasn't the mom when we where taking care of her. The song should of been if we could have saved your life. The pastor like I don't know if he was right with God hello god knows that Terry wasn't normal he was goong to Heaven.. But he was a Christian he did ask God into his heart
She ayed songs like Jesus loves me for a funeral.. To be honest it should have been everyone of his brothers and sisters should of told,about a memory they had with him.. The Bennets should have been able to sing and wanted to so bad but Barabara told her no she was the mom we'll she wasn't the mom when we where taking care of her. The song should of been if we could have saved your life. The pastor like I don't know if he was right with God hello god knows that Terry wasn't normal he was goong to Heaven.. But he was a Christian he did ask God into his heart
She ayed songs like Jesus loves me for a funeral.. To be honest it should have been everyone of his brothers and sisters should of told,about a memory they had with him.. The Bennets should have been able to sing and wanted to so bad but Barabara told her no she was the mom we'll she wasn't the mom when we where taking care of her. The song should of been if we could have saved your life. The pastor like I don't know if he was right with God hello god knows that Terry wasn't normal he was goong to Heaven.. But he was a Christian he did ask God into his heart
I do want to say thank you for allowing eme to she my li with you f.. There are more memories but it takes talking or sometimes somebody will say something and it comes back when it does I will share. Even though Davis was evil I do hope before he died that he turned his life over to God........ I do want to says we bought all the food and Barbara. Could even come over to talk about our memories. Of Terry. For her to say we all our sinners and she can't eat at the table of sinners... Thank God we are saved by the blood of Jesus and not By Barbara or Davis. Jesus himself eat with sinners he was more worried about their soul
Mark I sit here reading what you have to say; I always try to see things from another’s point of view. I do believe my life is hard to swallow. It is hard for me to swallow as I look it fully in the face. For a long time I didn’t know I was not to blame for others actions. I couldn’t stop what others did to me and I hated myself for being so helpless. I hated that the only thing I was good for was to be abused. It hurt that I was unloved, that I brought embarrassment, that nothing I could offer could make those around proud of who I was, I hated all the symptoms I couldn’t stop in my life.
I want to explain some things about me. I can’t sleep without the light on, I am terrified of flyswatters, certain type of colored cords scare me, I am terrified of men, I will leave a store if only a man is available at the cash register, every day I am afraid, when I see certain types of dog cages I tremble inside, I can’t have anyone throw anything they want me to catch including a ball because I fear it hitting my face, I have to use scaling hot water because I feel filthy all the time all so at times trying to numb the pain I feel with the scaling water, that I hate to sleep in beds sleeping anywhere but a bed for beds bring nightmares or every day fearing that someone will rape me once again. This is just a taste of the symptoms I face for all that I have experienced with abuse.
This might not make you think any better of me but I wanted to share for your sake as well as others who might not understand the long terms effects of abuse. I am not upset at you in the least in fact my heart goes out to you. I pray for you every day. I pray for blessings on your life also that when your heart can handle it that you could see the truth for what it is. I pray this for when you see; it will be painful. I pray God be with you every day of your life.
Hugs,
Julie
It's too bad that Davis didn't believe in death bed repentance. If there ever was a man that needed it, that man was Davis. I also remember the proverb that was so often regurgitated: "You can't burn the candle of life on both ends and blow the smoke in God's face.
wait, wait, wait, hold on, stop the presses, have a seat. Are you telling me that davis did not go up in a cloud from the St. Louis Stadium, with olson, kekel, ashmore, Johnson and others following him? That can't be true, but davis saw in a vision, so how can it not be true? when the man of GAWD said it.
That makes him a false prophet, but we knew that when they demolished the Ram's stadium years ago. His visions were more like Pizza dreams. He had too much pizza before he went to sleep.
Vic,I totally agree with you!!!!Just because he passed doesn't mean it's over he has many TOY SOLIDERS..waiting to follow his left over command's Like Keckel now the grand master of arms..Let the games begin.....LOL..Lori,XXXMember.........
Hi Lisa,
You really did so much to help Terry. It reminds me of the love that my mom had for my older brother. It was unconditional. I was in the Army and my older brother had a bunch of issues. He was about 22 and he had really bad drinking and drug problems plus he was diagnosed as Bi-polar/Manic depressant. My mom was not in the greatest health at the time, but she did everything she could possibly physically do for him. She helped him get places to live. She visited him, she bought groceries for him and even when he had break downs where he would get violent and be arrested and in and out of halfway houses, she cared about him more than anyone in the world. She cared until she died.
I'm sharing that because what you did was love. I don't know if you considered yourself a Christian at that time but you showed Terry the kind of love that Christ had for us. When nobody else would love us, He did. I believe that this is what God wants from all of us, is to love one another, plain and simple.
It is such a shame that in your health that you were abandoned and forced by your own love to become a mother to Terry. The love you had for him is special and you did everything you could to help him. When I read this story, it spoke deeply of what is really important in life and why we are alive. Thank you for sharing all of the details.
What Barbara did was horrible and defies human decency. She was a reflection of Davis. She followed Davis all those years and her loyalty was misplaced. She was worse than an infidel according to the bible.
Ok...after reading Pam, Julie, and Lisa's stories, I have decided to post about my own personal experience with R. W. Davis
Nothing happened to me as it did to these young girls. I do want to say that the situation was a strange one.
Ok...It was in 1978 the year I had gotten married. My husband was at work, and I heard someone knock on my door. I go and answer it, and I was very surprised to see R. W. Davis at my door alone! The reason for my surprise is that it was taught that we were not suppose to go anywhere alone.
When I asked what he was doing? He came up with an excuse that he was going to the basement to check for some things he had there so he did not want to scare me. I thought that it was strange, but tried to brush it out of my mind. Until the stories about R. W. Davis started to come out. This incident came back to my mind. Now I understand that God was keeping his hand on me at that time.
Diana Taylor
DNA said.....
It was at this time that I met the most manipulative person that I ever met in the ntcc and it wasn't the Pastor, David Tieman, but it was his wife Nichelle Tieman. They were in Colorado Springs, running a servicemen's home. After making a few trips back and forth for services, the Tiemans tried to convince me that God wanted me to stay in Colorado. The Wrights were reaching out to me with their long arms from Korea, and Davis got involved and told them to knock it off. I decided to stay in Colorado, spent 3 months attached to Fitzsimons Army Medical Center, and then permanently assigned to Ft. Carson, CO. Now my mom was a Christian but she was not a brainwashed cult member. I used to roll joints for her and she would drink and party. Now she attended a Assembly of God church and lived a changed life, loving me, and my two brothers more than anything in the world. When I was in Korea, I persuaded her to drive all the way to Colorado Springs and attend a revival service preached by the preaching machine as he was Dubbed by R-Dub, the great Ashmore. My mom told me that he was the coldest man she had ever met in her life. She was really creeped out by him, more than any minister she had ever been around. She described him as ice cold. Of course, I almost threw my mother under the bus for that one, but her love to me was real and although I disagreed with her, I couldn't ditch her. When she passed away the following year in early April, 1990, Nichelle Tieman asked me why do you pretend that she made it to heaven? She was not living a holy life and therefore she went to hell. Why do people always lie to themselves when their loved ones die? Nichelle Tieman was as wicked as they come. Very comforting words. This transpired because I rejected her sexual advances towards me.
Many thoughts run through my head as I read this. Nichelle Tieman was always a prideful person and thought she should have what she wanted and could say what she wanted like she was an untouchable one. I didn't like being anywhere near her. Joan would say I had sinful ways about me than praise Nichelle Tieman for the ugly words that would come out of her mouth about people. Nichelle would talk as if she controlled God and heaven.
When I think of her I think of Joseph and Potiphar's wife in Genesis 39. She fits everything Potiphar's wife was to Joseph.
Then I read about your mother and though I never met her I just pictured a humble woman that just saw things with 20/20 vision that prayed for you from the time she knew God until her death. Then she became an angel from heaven that has being watching over you ever since. She wasn't afraid of the truth and as a true mother feel the need to make sure you knew it even if at the time you couldn't swallow it. Several women come to mind when I think of your mother. Faithfulness and love even in the middle of things she couldn't stop in your life now that is a good mother.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA said.....
Ange and I loved each other deeply and we would eventually get ripped away from each other in an act of cruelty which made my mom’s death seem like a small thing in comparison. Nichelle Tieman was a witch and David Tieman was a spineless wimp that allowed the unthinkable to happen. They knew I loved her and they lied to her, using God as an excuse to send her to bible school so they could get a feather in their cap. They were on their way up to bigger and better things. We had so much in common and it was obvious that we were meant for each other. We were the same age, both part Italian with Italian last names. Here I was thinking, that through it all, God was going to bless me, but the blessing never came. I was meant to live out the rest of my miserable days in the ntcc as a celibate.
She ended up going to bible school, getting called back into the Army, and then going back to bible school and marrying Eric Barden. This hurt me more deeply than anything ever has in my entire life. It made me feel like my whole invested life in the ntcc was for nothing. I felt like God hated me and that I would never get married. Slowly my life started to spiral away from God, but none of it was God's fault. I was in a manipulative cult. Good Grief, look at what I went through in 7 years in the ntcc. Was it normal for a Christian to have to go through all that? Is this really what a Christian church was supposed to be all about?
It is like Joseph and Potiphar's wife story continued. The wife doesn't get what she wants so why should you. You get throw into prison in so many terms not to be remember or cared about at all. What you wanted desired and deserved being taken from you. Like Joseph you have come from that to be used of God. Also like him you haven't allowed it stop you from helping others. Now that than leads me into thinking of the Famine that happening in that time in the bible yet Joseph thought of others even though in the past he had been forgotten himself. Now that takes character and the true love of Christ. To rise from prison and still have a heart.
I believe God brought you back together. Who knows maybe your mother and others talked to God as they saw you both struggling bring it full circle the plans of God and the hearts desires.
Right now my mind goes back to hearing Pop and Mom Gaylord singing "Tell Mother I Will Be There". I can't say why but this just makes me think of them sing.
Hugs,
Julie
Lisa thanks for sharing more of your life. It is so heartbreaking what you went through. It is just terrible how Terry was treated and at a young age you had to do what was Barbara's job but you had a big enough heart to pick it up when she failed Terry and God.
You are a very strong brave woman. You have so pleased the heart of God.
That is just horrible that someone would just sign their children over to the state. Oh there I remember Ralph threatening to do that to me.
What Barbara did involving Terry's funeral just showed she never had true remorse that she just stayed the same evil person.
They should let you and those that knew Terry speak and to deny you sharing in the music picking. Evil to the end of her son's life that just isn't a mother in the least. I am sorry for what you suffered.
Hugs,
Julie
Diana Taylor said.....
Ok...after reading Pam, Julie, and Lisa's stories, I have decided to post about my own personal experience with R. W. Davis.
Thanks Diana for sharing what happened. Every little detail from every person helps someone else. I am also glad you can see that day for what it was. I appreciate every comment you bring to the table it is valuable.
Hugs,
Julie
truestoriesoflifeinthentcc.blogspot.com/ Is running a new story on the Davis Legacy.
Diana Taylor said:
"Ok...It was in 1978 the year I had gotten married. My husband was at work, and I heard someone knock on my door. I go and answer it, and I was very surprised to see R. W. Davis at my door alone! The reason for my surprise is that it was taught that we were not suppose to go anywhere alone."
DNA said:
There have been others that have reported Davis lurking around, and there are those also who have reported that Davis did much more than Lurk. We all know that Davis would teach that a man or woman should not be alone with a member of the opposite sex outside of their own marriages.
Davis never was one to follow his own rules. Could you picture Davis ever having to ask anyone permission to do anything? And herein lies the hypocrisy and the adulterous heart of R.W. Davis. He always made rules that applied to other people only. You mean to tell me that Davis didn't have someone else who could have checked the basement? Common real-estate rental agreements require notice before the landlord can be allowed inside a tenants house.
Davis knows this stuff better than anyone. He was a two faced hypocrite all along. We've all heard Davis preach about this sort of thing. We've heard many ministers repeat the same rules, but when Davis breaks them it seems like he is allowed a special dispensation of Grace. Surely he is super holy and able to resist the temptations that made us subject to the rules.
If someone is so insecure about their own sexual proclivities that they have to make rules for everyone else, that should be a huge red flag to all of you ntcc'rs. But you ignore anything that Davis has ever did. You shrug it all off as though it never happened. Look at what your organization has become. Not one of you would make it into the heaven that RWD used to preach about, and that's because he lied to you all from the get go. All the holiness doctrine was just another way to control you. Open your eyes and read the bible. Figure this stuff out for yourself.
Does anyone know what happened to the ex-hopcc site at www.a-new-hope.org/hopcc-lies/ ? It said it was "suspended" for a few days, and now it's completely dead. Does anyone know how to contact Philip Bowers? There was some interesting stuff going up there, and he was receiving threats. It was being alleged that Rony Denis' real name might be Ernande Dieujuste, and that his father had been some crony of Baby Doc Duvalier back in Haiti and was executed. Don't know how accurate any of that is, but it sounded from the posts over there that Denis is RW on steroids when it comes to controlling and using people. He must be a better scammer than RW, since he scammed RW himself.
Much has been said recently on the anticipation of the new regime and all of the changes that will be made. As we all know there are new bylaws in effect which we have not forgotten about. We'll be doing another blog-post when things simmer down a bit, that continues to cover the new by laws.
As we all know, Kekel has been named as the new Royal King of the ntcc. It was made very clear in the new by-laws that Kekel has the final authority on everything. Olson is going to continue his role as Yes-man and Hype man, and while he will still be kissing butts, he now has a new butt to kiss. Kekel now is in control of all the money, and he can move it from his right pocket to his left pocket and buy anything his greedy heart desires. I predict that you will see Kekel become even more disgustingly and outrageously rich.
Many have eluded to the wholesale compromise that is sure to come. No doubt the phony balogna holiness rules will be gone soon, as they already have been moving in that direction for some time. The only problem I see, is that Kekel is probably just as big or even a bigger narcissist as Davis was. He will not be able to help himself when it comes to stupidity being projected upon others from the pulpit. Kekel does not have the horse sense or walking around sense that Davis had. Kekel will make some huge blunders and will bring a new meaning to the term "double standard". When you put a self centered, never been anywhere, never done anything, bumbling idiot in charge that's what you get. But Kekel is wise in his own conceits. Because he is a narcissist he will continue to enforce other types of rules. He might even end up being worse than Davis in some ways. He already is very arrogant and has very little compassion. He is motivated and driven by riches and greed, so many of his decisions will continue to leave people in poverty while his bottom line increases.
This list describes Rodger Wilson Davis rather well!
DNA said....
Many have eluded to the wholesale compromise that is sure to come. No doubt the phony balogna holiness rules will be gone soon, as they already have been moving in that direction for some time. The only problem I see, is that Kekel is probably just as big or even a bigger narcissist as Davis was. He will not be able to help himself when it comes to stupidity being projected upon others from the pulpit. Kekel does not have the horse sense or walking around sense that Davis had. Kekel will make some huge blunders and will bring a new meaning to the term "double standard". When you put a self centered, never been anywhere, never done anything, bumbling idiot in charge that's what you get. But Kekel is wise in his own conceits. Because he is a narcissist he will continue to enforce other types of rules. He might even end up being worse than Davis in some ways. He already is very arrogant and has very little compassion. He is motivated and driven by riches and greed, so many of his decisions will continue to leave people in poverty while his bottom line increases.
He will find ways to control people while taking every dollar possible from the people.
I believe he will become richer and worse than his father in law. It makes me think of a verse in the bible.
I Kings 16:30 "And Ahab the son of Omri did evil in the sight of the Lord above all that were before him."
Hugs,
Julie
This list from a Domestic Violence Website Describes Life In The NTCC:
Examples of abuse include:
* name-calling or putdowns
--In NTCC daily from the pulpit
* keeping a partner from contacting their family or friends
--rules, rules, rules
-- No calling
-- No writing
-- No visiting
* withholding money
-stopping a partner from getting or keeping a job
--NTCC women forbidden to work on paying jobs outside the home
* actual or threatened physical harm
--Read Julie and Lisa's Stories and
-- look at the other online testimonies about
--ntcc men constantly getting sucker-punched by davis
* sexual assault
--Read this thread and the realted Posts and
--Read Don's Story
* stalking
--NTCC calls it Soul-Winning; but it is just church endorsed, promoted, and required stalking
* intimidation
--NTCC uses God's word as a threat more than as a comfort or encouragement
This list describes Rodger Wilson Davis rather well!
There isn't one thing on that list that Davis didn't mirror in every way. An abuser in every level using power through out his days.
Hugs,
Julie
vic, you can email me at danbax@yopmail.com and i can get you the cached website docs.
Does anyone know how Rev. Davis died?
Here's what we heard:
Some time last summer davis had heart surgery implanting a couple stents. He never fully recovered from the surgery, had trouble eating, became weaker, got pneumonia, and passed away at home ~ 2 A.M. on Sunday, March 2, 2014.
Wonder if they had trouble finding his heart...if he had one, it must have been microscopic.
Yeah, Vic. If you saw the Grinch video we added, you know that even the Grinch's heart grew. But rahj? Not so much. davis' heart only grew harder.
1.) Will Verna move in with the Kekel's and some other "bored" member will move up to the big house in the compound? (you know how when someone "went out to a work" they would juggle where people lived so the most faithful got the newer/nicer house....and who will it be?)
2.)The "celebration" of Davis' life is Friday, but do we all need to get permission to attend, as he wasn't immediate family and that would be against the "policies" we had to obey.
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall.. Humpty Dumpty had a great fall.. all the kings horses and, etc... His legacy is broken homes... destroyed lives... ministers so burned out they will never again step inside any Church. People put in great pain squashed hands - if that isn't love.. eek! I squeak... Let My people go says the Lord! Pastor-Pharoah has gone into the Sea! And the Emporer has no clothes.
Like Verna loved to tell the young men, did you know you're naked under your clothes? I told her as I rode with her and RW... well, quit looking, then!
DD said.....
Lord! Pastor-Pharoah has gone into the Sea! And the Emporer has no clothes.
Like Verna loved to tell the young men, did you know you're naked under your clothes? I told her as I rode with her and RW... well, quit looking, then!
My My My!!! Ralph would say that to ladies too. I would go visiting with him and he would say that to the women and girls we were visiting. They would get all embarrassed. He did that as well if we were visiting ladies in hospitals where they had only gowns on.
I asked him one time why he did that and he said it makes the women more comfortable with him and feel closer to him.
Joan thought it was cute and would do it on occasion herself.
The sick ways of these people passed on and on.
Hugs,
Julie
Bruce Smith published a column in the Mountain News regarding Davis' death and a letter written by Vivian Rhyne (Lloyd-Owen). Click the [blue] link above.
ntcc love to accuse folks of having sin in there lives as to why someone did not get healed. Well, I wonder who had sin in there life as to why davis did not get healed? Because surely everyone was probably praying for davis to recover.
Maurice you make a very good point.
Anon a mouse said:
Will Verna move in with the Kekel's and some other "bored" member will move up to the big house in the compound? (you know how when someone "went out to a work" they would juggle where people lived so the most faithful got the newer/nicer house....and who will it be?)
DNA said:
It's hard to say what the non profit prophet will do with his extra mansion. Perhaps they will connect it to their mansion and turn it into a mega mansion, and allow Verna to sleep in the 'Grandmother' apartment. Verna and Tanya are both at the grace of a power starved Kekel. There is no more Daddy-O protection. Especially for Verna.
Perhaps if Davis left his fortune to Verna, she might be treated like the Queen of England, Who knows. The extra mansion will definitely eventually go to the Kekels if it's not already theirs. Maybe Kekel will upgrade again into the big house, and let someone else move in. I'm sure it will wow the brainwashed minions, whatever they do. "One day if we continue to empty our wallets, God will bless us like the Kekels!" Dream on you crazy zombies!
Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. Luke 16:25
Sometimes we wonder why the wicked prosper. How is it that so many people were left broken and without hope while the transgressor was allowed to live in the lap of luxury. It seemed like Davis was untouchable, but now his mansion sit's without him and his riches are out of his reach. A lot of good all that money is doing him now.
Maurice said...
ntcc love to accuse folks of having sin in there lives as to why someone did not get healed. Well, I wonder who had sin in there life as to why davis did not get healed? Because surely everyone was probably praying for davis to recover.
Yeah I do wonder the same. Once again things apply to some but not others. Double-standards....smh Thanks for writing this comment.
Hugs,
Julie
And brought his head in a charger, and gave it to the damsel: and the damsel gave it to her mother. Mar 6:28
What kind of people would desire to give gifts like this?
Herod had Married his brother Philips wife. Herod gets rebuked by John. Herod throws John in prison. The daughter of Herod and Philip's wife dances in front of Herod who is pleased, (Probably aroused) by the young girl. Herod gives the girl one wish, and the girl asks for John's head in a charger. Herod has him beheaded and gives the head to the girl who Pleased, (aroused) him. Girl gives head to incestuous and adulterous mother.
What kind of people give gifts like this?
Philip visits a whorehouse in Japan. Roland Moreno reports Philandering Phil for his adultery. Ashmore and King Davis throw Roland under the bus. King Davis was so pleased with Phil he promotes him to associate pastor of the biggest church in the organization with his child groping and fondling son in law Kekel. Roland mysteriously and unexpectedly kills himself, his pregnant wife and his son. Davis and others use Roland as an example of what happens when you rat them out for their adultery. Kinson rejoices because he thinks he got away with his sins.
Herod was eventually killed by a angel of God because he gave a speech and the people said, "This is the voice of a god, and not a man". He was eaten of worms.
Davis was worshiped by many as God. Olson said, "Davis is the organization." Others lived contrary to the bible to please Davis. Davis said, "I cannot remember the last time I sinned". The only other person in the bible that could truthfully make that statement was Jesus. Davis' sins which were many were ignored by all those who held him in high esteem. Thousands of people had large portions of their lives destroyed because of his reign of terror.
There is a verse I think of that goes something like this... he that hath this worlds goods and shuts up his bowels of compassion ... sees his brother in need... how does the livd of God abide in him? 1 John 3:17... I didn't say it... the Bible did! Wow lets hear them preach thzt at the so-called "celebration" of his life and ? promotion? my Bible tells me when people die-their works follow them andvthey get their reward. NTCC has a lot to learn. All they preach about are the EXTERNAL looks of people. Inside they seem full of dead mens bones.
Oh yeah, if Davis IS the organization.. then by their OWN WORDS NTCC IS NOW DEAD. In this I agree with them! Olson responded in 1974, when CO Sensabaugh took over Carondelet church, in St Louis... well, Carl Sensabaugh, who was once RW's heir apparent.. preached, "Moses is dead now let us go over.."
JH OLSON said.. "their Moses may be dead, but ours is still alive!"
Well, now JHOlsons Moses IS dead.
Now who will be the Joshua?
I am recalling the time Lori and I left the church and came back Olson stood behind the pulpit. Taking about death bed forgiveness. He asked Lori and I behind the pulpit. What are we going to do Hagen some man has us in the back of the car and they are. Rape us he said we would cry out to God then. Lori stood up and said you can't rape the willing we where escorted. Out of the building.... But the weird thing is I told Davis less then two weeks ago he would welcome hell. And guess what he did because there is. Where he is at...
Photon said:
"Wow lets hear them preach that at the so-called "celebration" of his life and ? promotion?"
DNA said:
It's like celebrating April Fools Day on Christmas. Here is your Christmas present, Wow!!! A check for $500.00, except it says: APRIL FOOLS! on the signature line and there is no money in the bank to cover it.
How does someone who causes so much death and suffering, get a celebration of life? Who actually thinks he got promoted? I don't think Davis went to heaven any more than I think that Judas went to heaven. I know that many folks hold the opinion that it is not their place to put people in Hell or to 'judge' others but sometimes you just have to be real. If Davis gets to go to heaven, then whats to stop all the other child molesters from going? They were so fond of saying, "We are not judging, the bible is judging you", and they weren't even taking it in context nor were they applying the same scriptures to themselves.
I don't make it a habit of saying anyone is going to hell, and I don't think I've said that on this blog, but I will say that if there ever was a person that deserves to be there, it would be a person that has condemned countless others to hell, when they were less worthy of hell than Davis himself.
I actually think that there are many people that were disqualified by Davis from heaven are actually going to end up there. That's right. Shouting on the streets of gold with all of the saints will be a huge number of people that Davis has dumped on and given no hope.
Davis doctrine placed many people in hell for saying a curse word, having a drink, watching TV, playing sports, wearing shorts, wearing war paint (make-up), wearing Devil Stirrups or dingle bobs, women bobbing their hair, guys wearing mustaches or not shaving, loving a house more than God, loving a car more than God, and many other things. I know people that have had a drink now and then, or have said a curse word or two now and then who are much better off than Davis will be. I'm not going to place them in hell for that. It's not my place to say who is going and who is not, but I will use the same standards that Davis used for everyone else. I will say that Adulterers will have their part in the lake of fire, to Davis. I'm just the messenger, I didn't make up the scriptures.
You say, Well maybe he repented. Not like he taught others to repent. He said you have to make it right with the people you have sinned against. Big hypocrite. He never repented like David. He needs to write a big "This is I paper" and distribute it to the thousands of people he has sinned against and apologize and then ask God to forgive him. How many people did he run off for doing the very things he is guilty of? How many people did he leave without hope for doing the things that he did, without remorse?
A celebration of life and his promotion? They should be grieving him and begging God not to send them to the same place.
As a matter of fact, all of the participants of the blogs to include this one, are doing a "This is I" paper for Davis, since he never did one and now it is too late. If you want to know what his "This is I" Paper says, just read this blog and Jeff's, and the others and Factnet. That's Davis in a nutshell, and don't feel bad if you think that Davis might have gone to hell. It's not a sin to think that or even to say it. I would be more worried about those who are suffering in the ntcc without a cause, and try to get people that have been hurt really bad to share their stories, because that is what is going to free them.
Part 1
I was an active member, and ordained minister in good standing in this church for 30 years. I witnessed much of the abuse, and intimidation referenced by the postings of many former members of this group first hand.
Recently the testimony of three young women, raised in this group, has been published, additional allegations have been made by more woman who suffered similar sexual abuse, but they are reluctant to come forward for fear of reprisal, and or current membership in this group.
Their abuse occurred in various states, and by various ministers of this group. At the time, the accusations were taken to the current senior pastor and CEO, Michael C. Kekel, COB Joseph H. Olson, and other current members of the board(s) of directors, as well as family members. Their accusations were dismissed with no investigation, and with little or no repercussions or consequences to the perpetrators of these crimes, and no report to police or CPS was made.
Pam, Lisa, and Julie were sexually abused, raped, and suffered physical, spiritual, and emotional abuse over an extended period of time. All of these victims have suffered in silence for many years, having been shunned by the church and their families. Most of the average clergy, and members of church had no idea that this conduct was even possible much less perpetrated upon these girls, by their leaders.
These three women made credible accusations of sexual misconduct by Roger W Davis, James R. Ashmore, and Ralph Saint Clair, of rape, and Michael C. Kekel of voyeurism, and corporal punishment with a sexual nature. Their testimony included names, time frames, and places, with corroborating information from reliable sources.
The families of these young woman conspired with this conduct, and turning a blind eye to the witnesses of their daughters, refused to believe them. These women were ridiculed publicly and privately, slandered, and finally excommunicated. These actions are disgusting and completely detestable by any normal standards of decency, much less by officers of the clergy, and highly esteemed members of the church.
As a splinter group of the "holiness movement," this church was founded under the Missouri Statutes as a non-profit corporation 355, and the IRS 501c3. The Missouri Statutes require that the boards of directors be replaced for conduct such as these allegations, hiding sexual misconduct, misappropriation of funds, malfeasance, and all other related activities . Examples of corruption are clearly seen on the Pierce County Wa. real estate website, gifting of 40 acres of prime real estate from the COB to the CEO without the knowledge, or consent of the congregation(s), gifting of real estate, financing of properties with church resources, purchases and sales to and from board members, and friends of the board, avoiding sales, excise taxes, and market rates are corrupt, and demand criminal, and civil action against these extortionists.
To be continued...
Part 2
These leaders have used the first amendment of the US Constitution to hide their questionable practices for decades.
Former members of these groups have reported to governmental agencies such as the IRS, States Attorney Generals, Secretaries of States, Prosecuting Attorneys, and Sheriffs departments, but have failed to bring criminal proceedings, or change the practices of this group. The statutes of limitations for the three women have expired in the various states where these alleged crimes took place. News media has been contacted as well. Presently, only the Mountain News, and several blogs have reported this activity.
I call upon the current members, and body of the congregations of this church to call for a vote to remove the Board(s) of Directors and all the leadership of these churches and replace them with Godly and humble leaders that will be accountable to the congregations, and to God. The original vote to install RW Davis as the CEO, of the corporation, was fraudulently presented to the congregation, and was never intended to be perpetual, and with no accountability to the membership of the church.
These leaders live in castles, live extravagant lifestyles, and have no accountability to the congregation(s) which they are supposedly serving. These people serve themselves, and their families. The congregation(s) should demand that they be replaced.
Both of these church corporation(s) IRS status as 501c3 charitable institution(s) should be revoked, and the pecuniary profit and personal gain of these individuals should be forfeited back to the church, for its intended use.
The IRS, the States Attorneys General(s), the Secretary of State(s), of Missouri, Washington, and other States, have an interest in holding these leaders accountable to the founding documents of the organization that states that they are to be a non-profit organizations. The private inurement doctrine is another private benefit rule applicable to public charities. The doctrine comes directly from the language of section 501 of the Internal Revenue Code that only organizations “no part of the net earnings of which inures to the benefit of any private shareholder or individual” may be exempt under section 501(c)(3). A 501(c)(3) organization that violates the private inurement doctrine fails to be operated exclusively for one or more exempt purposes and is subject to revocation of its exempt status.
For you Ntcc to pray and ask God for Julie death is wrong you are sinners God will not answer that prayer because it's a prayer of sinners. He has a death ear to you. I rebuke you Ntcc members. So get behind us Satan. . God wNts the truth out of this church because he wants them members to be free .. leave God will help you to heal from the scales they have left... You will have mor money a better and happier life.. Barbara Micheal, and the. Members. they lie to you they call you out. Avid bring you down leave members .. Again members get behind me I rebuke you in the name of Jesus .. You see Davis is in Hell for his lies don't follow him God will pour out judgement upon you
Lisa said:
"For you Ntcc'rs to pray and ask God for Julie's death is wrong you are sinners God will not answer that prayer because it's a prayer of sinners."
DNA said:
They will condemn a person to spend eternity in the lake of fire if they dress a certain way or do not fall lockstep into their brainwashed scheme for entering heaven. I'm not sure who is threatening Julie by praying for her death, but whoever it is, you are not a shining example of Christian Love or bible teachings. Can any of you ntcc'rs show us where in the bible that it tells you to pray for someone to die? Remember the disciples asking the Lord if they should pray fire down from heaven on folks? He said you know not what spirit you are of. If you are praying that prayer, than Lisa is right, you are a bunch of sinners and you need to get saved. That's what Davis your Idol used to preach. You just need to get saved. Bunch of sinners.
Either way you look at things, Ralph and Joan should not be behind a pulpit. If you want to blame Julie, than you must also believe the scripture that says that a bishop is "One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)" But I think you will find that the St. Clairs do indeed have a history of sexual abuse and that they repeatedly abused Julie. But you can't have it both ways you bunch of heathen. How do you like it when someone preaches back at you? It's not so fun anymore when the plow is digging up your back yard.
It's all fun and games when you are abusing disabled children. It's all fun and games when you are uprooting families and causing 15 year old raped pregnant girls to raise their handicapped brother because you are too sorry to be a mother. I bet Davis was thinking that nobody would ever find out how he treated Pam and Lisa, or how that he was there when he ordered Barbaric Barbara Norton to remove all the furniture out of the house and abandon her family. Guess what NTCC, you are not above reproach and you have hurt people for way to long, thinking that you got away with it, but we are here to call you out. Remember the four fingers that are pointing back at you? They even get the simplest of sayings wrong, because when you are pointing at someone else there are only 3 fingers, pointing back at you. The thumb doesn't count.
And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem,
And sent messengers before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him.
And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
And when his disciples James and John saw [this], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.
For the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save [them]. And they went to another village. Luke 9:51-56 bold highlights added by DNA for emphasis
Definition of a Sinner:
Rom 3:23 "For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God".
1 John 1:8 "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us."
Google defines sinner as:
"a person who transgresses against divine law by committing an immoral act or acts."
NTCC defines sinner as anyone who does not attend their cult brainwashing centers or give tithes and offerings.
Everyone is considered a sinner by the ntcc if they do not allow their brains and actions to be controlled by the manipulative leadership.
But now I would like to reflect on what a songwriter once said:
"The jig is up, the noose is out, They finally found me, The renegade who had it made, Retrieved for a bounty, Never more to go astray, The judge will have revenge today, On the wanted man." Written for people like Davis, performed by Styx.
Now I think most of us admit that we can remember the last time we sinned, and that we are all sinners at least by the ntcc standards. I know that I am a sinner according to the ntcc. They love to call people sinners. If you don't pay your tithe and offering in cash every pay day you are a sinner.
Lets examine who the really big sinners are. Who did Jesus spend most of his time rebuking? Oh sure, he rebuked his disciples now and again for things like love and forgiveness. But Jesus was always rebuking the phony religious leaders of his time.
Now I'm not Jesus, nor am I anything great or special. I'm just a member of a former cult that is tired of seeing people mistreated. By definition of the bible, the ntcc leadership are not just sinners, but they are ungodly sinners. Kekel, Olson, Ashmore, Johnson and all the board members that have ignored the abuse that Davis has dished out, you are the worst of all the sinners out there. You are being exposed for your hypocrisy now. You are being publicly humiliated, just like you humiliated the undeserving, lowly esteemed, struggling, poor Christians that you fleeced for years. Davis has been outed by the people he hurt the most, and I'm pretty sure his hoar head did not go down to the grave in peace. He was a troubled soul and you know it. All of his deeds and the violations of his office and the people he betrayed are being heard by the ones you are still using. They won't stay blind forever. Sooner or later you will betray them and their eyes will be open and a new generation of victims will be born and their voices will be even louder than ours.
The other day while viewing ntcc web site. They show a picture of there choir singing Christmas carols at a retirement home. Forgive me for being skeptical, but I could not help but think how those elderly folks need to be sure to keep a strong hand on there Social Security, and Retirement checks.
abusing disabled children. It's all fun and games when you are uprooting families and causing 15 year old raped pregnant girls to raise their handicapped brother because you are too sorry to be a mother. Lisa, They probably all thought it was funny, but like I heard an old man say: "SON, IT ANT NO FUN, WHEN THE RABBIT GOT THE GUN."
Maurice said...
"The other day while viewing ntcc web site. They show a picture of there choir singing Christmas carols at a retirement home. Forgive me for being skeptical, but I could not help but think how those elderly folks need to be sure to keep a strong hand on there Social Security, and Retirement checks."
DNA said:
They need to keep a very tight grip on their checks and their wallets. The ntcc has a history of bleeding the elderly and poor dry. The Rich, (Kekel and Davis) got richer, while the poor, (the rest of us) got poorer. The way it works is that anyone stupid enough to pay them 10% of more, pays it to them. If they get a few dumb GI's that don't know any better, then they just keep getting richer. The tithe rule applies to everyone in the period, except when it gets to the top, that is where the money trail stops. They will take anything they can get from the old folks, the poor, and anyone else. It all adds up.
Does anybody know how the funeal was?
Maurice said...
The other day while viewing ntcc web site. They show a picture of there choir singing Christmas carols at a retirement home. Forgive me for being skeptical, but I could not help but think how those elderly folks need to be sure to keep a strong hand on there Social Security, and Retirement checks.
This reminds me of a couple that went to one of their churches when I was a child. They were an elderly couple in their 80s and they were on social security they were pushed to give and give by Ralph St.Clair. They should have been told to keep their money all of it not pushed to give and give. So cruel all the way. They needed the little money they had but yet no one cared in the least.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA said:
They need to keep a very tight grip on their checks and their wallets. The ntcc has a history of bleeding the elderly and poor dry. The Rich, (Kekel and Davis) got richer, while the poor, (the rest of us) got poorer. The way it works is that anyone stupid enough to pay them 10% of more, pays it to them. If they get a few dumb GI's that don't know any better, then they just keep getting richer. The tithe rule applies to everyone in the period, except when it gets to the top, that is where the money trail stops. They will take anything they can get from the old folks, the poor, and anyone else. It all adds up.
They are so willing to take from anyone they even have a donation button on their website. So I guess they are willing to take sinner's money as well if someone is willing to be stupid enough to give to them.
I heard among other reasons for having the donation button this allows them to encourage businesses and other people with money to give so NTCC can have the money to continue their wonderful work for God. Please tell me what is so wonderful about NTCC and their slave labor.....probably anyone that has family with money as well.
Hugs,
Julie
Photon DD said...
There is a verse I think of that goes something like this... he that hath this worlds goods and shuts up his bowels of compassion ... sees his brother in need... how does the livd of God abide in him? 1 John 3:17... I didn't say it... the Bible did!
They are so far from compassion....see they thought that verse meant after they have all they want then they were to think others and considering they will never be satisfied they will never have to give to others.
They always find ways around scriptures so God is stupid because he said one thing but mean another. Yep the words and meaning keep magical changing. Man what is wrong with my bible all the words keep staying the same. Maybe I need to pray for it to become a magic bible. While I am at it maybe I can pray for my house to become a mansion and maybe a horse, an unicorn, and so much more.
Hugs,
Julie
Don and Ange said...
As a matter of fact, all of the participants of the blogs to include this one, are doing a "This is I" paper for Davis, since he never did one and now it is too late. If you want to know what his "This is I" Paper says, just read this blog and Jeff's, and the others and Factnet
This Davis' "This is I" paper. I (Davis) am a cruel, sexual, child molester/rapist, selfish, abusive to all, adulterous, jerk that according to my (Davis) preaching will go to hell. He said he doesn't lie so it must be true he knew where he belonged just wanted everyone else to think they belonged there too.
If he said it don't believe it. Think the opposite of what he told you and it will change your life forever.
If he said you were stupid know you are the smart, if he said you are a failure know you are a winner, if he said no one cares know that God cares about you and so do others, If he said you are unlovable know you are loveable ,if he said you are ugly know you are beautiful, if he said you are weak know you are strong, if he put fear on you know that isn't of God.
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. I John 4:18
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. II Timothy 1:7
Davis was a liar!!!
God never intended His children to live in fear.
God's way is a way of love not fear.
Hugs,
Julie
Julie, that's right! They do keep trying to change God's Word to fit what they want, instead of changing their lives to line up with God's Word. You really had me laughing when you said, "Man what is wrong with my bible all the words keep staying the same. Maybe I need to pray for it to become a magic bible. While I am at it maybe I can pray for my house to become a mansion and maybe a horse, an unicorn, and so much more."
Unfortunately for them and for those who follow them, they wrest the scriptures to their own destruction. And that is no laughing matter.
Lisa said:
"For you Ntcc'rs to pray and ask God for Julie's death is wrong you are sinners God will not answer that prayer because it's a prayer of sinners."
DNA said:
They will condemn a person to spend eternity in the lake of fire if they dress a certain way or do not fall lockstep into their brainwashed scheme for entering heaven. I'm not sure who is threatening Julie by praying for her death, but whoever it is, you are not a shining example of Christian Love or bible teachings. Can any of you ntcc'rs show us where in the bible that it tells you to pray for someone to die? Remember the disciples asking the Lord if they should pray fire down from heaven on folks? He said you know not what spirit you are of. If you are praying that prayer, than Lisa is right, you are a bunch of sinners and you need to get saved. That's what Davis your Idol used to preach. You just need to get saved. Bunch of sinners.
As I read this a scripture comes to mind.
The fear of man bringeth a snare: but whoso putteth his trust in the Lord shall be safe. Proverb 29:25
Now I am still filled with many fears and I can't say that I don't distrust God at times. As I working on my trust I know that I am safe in God even though fear sometimes over takes me. The God of love understands my struggles and He understands yours too even if our struggles in life are different.
Hugs,
Julie
There are many similarities in the gospels between the ntcc leaders and the Pharisees. The Pharisees used to follow Jesus around for the soul purpose of finding fault with him. Davis was the same way. Speaking to folks that were in the ministry in the ntcc, they will often share how that Davis would call them and jack them up. He would find fault with them for doing things that were no where close to being wrong according to the bible. Kekel is the same way. He loves to jack people up for stupid stuff.
Just like the Pharisees, Davis spent so much of his time traveling to places where Christians were trying to follow Jesus, and he would find fault with them for the stupidest reasons. They were playing football. They bought a house with their own money. He was just like the Pharisees, finding fault. He would wake people up in the middle of the night asking them for their reports. He was so busy micro managing their lives that he very seldom seen good in anyone. If you kissed up enough to him you could earn your way into his graces, but he wouldn't hesitate for a moment to find fault with you if you did anything that made him look bad. I'm glad the reign of terror is over for some. For others it is probably just beginning with the Kekels.
I think of all the focus on the church building that NTCC makes.
When I lived in Louisiana as a child there was a church building that was quite nice already available to us. We had to pay for this building. We were living in a shack which from what I heard we paid only 25.00 a month. This was a shack in every since of the word. There were gaps in the boards. My room had material for the wall that was like black trash bag material.
One of my walls if you pushed on it you could be outside. There wasn’t any heat in the house nor was there any hot water. We had rats and tons of water bugs.
I remember we would have prayer meetings. I wasn’t allowed to fall asleep in the sanctuary but I could take something lay it on the floor in the bathroom to sleep while Ralph and Joan St.Clair would have their prayer meeting for the church and reaching the city. Sleeping on the bathroom floor was a privilege because the bathroom had heat unlike our shack.
Sometimes all we had was rice and powdered milk for food and to have sugar to go with it was a treat. Many different NTCC leaders came through. I remember having one of the leaders come through even with how bad our living conditions were they were more concerned that we didn’t have song books. REALLY…..song books more important than food and shelter.
Than Davis came through picking apart everything that needed to be done in the church building.
He came to our shack once but refused to eat in there. It was too underneath him to eat in such a place. He said it was too cold for him and his wife. No kidding!!! It was cold with no heat but who cares as long as you have a nice heated building. I still remember the water getting cold as quick as Joan could heat it up to wash my long hair. I would scream and cry usually ending up with a headache every time my hair was washed.
We had to take Davis out to eat. I watched him eat as I sat there eating saltine crackers and drink water. That day I had bologna, bread, and old stale donuts after we gave him food…..I was lucky with that so who really cares. Ralph told the waitress we have already eaten but our _____ and his wife just got into town so we brought them here to feed them. We like taking care of our _______. Can’t say the word for it just makes me sick to my stomach. It was a lie we hadn’t eaten dinner yet. Davis used our money eating in front of us like it was his right. He was the master and we were the slaves.
When I asked why he wouldn’t eat at our house. His reply was well if Ralph (I am not willing to call him anything else) had got a decent house I might have come there instead. As always things were talked about how I was hindering the work of God with how I was physically. This always led to Ralph beating me. Davis had to always put me down every time I was around him but it wasn’t nothing foreign to me my life was full of insults and put downs.
Oh I had one dress at that moment I shouldn’t have been upset that it was washed out every night it was getting so thin. I shouldn’t have been upset that they had a different outfit every day they were there. I shouldn’t have been upset that they said what are you love with that dress that much. How could I be so jealous……should have been content with what I had…… When I said it was the only dress that I had and Davis said it really doesn’t matter people don’t notice what retards wear anyway. Ralph laugh saying ain’t that the truth …..Watching her walk and do stuff what she is wearing is the last thing anyone notices. I was so embarrassed and ashamed. I felt why I couldn’t give them a reason to say something they liked about me. But what could I say I was just the dumb retard idiot that was a burden and a pain to everyone.
This is just a small taste of what Louisiana held for me. Davis was cruel to me, Kekel was cruel to me as well.
Hugs,
Julie
For some the nightmare is over and for others the nightmare is just beginning. Hopefully the new leadership will move far away from the extreme teachings of davis, such as. Children hinder the work of God, while influencing the men to get vasectomies, influencing young underage women to marry adult men, influencing men into believing that even facial hair is a sin, influencing married women into believing that by having a job is being rebellious against there husbands, teaching that women became rebellious during or after world war two when we know that both man and woman rebelled against God in the Garden of Eden as well as at the Tower of Babel and again when Moses was receiving the Ten Commandment from God. Those extreme teaching was not and is not biblical and the new leaders should discard them.
Don and Ange said...
There are many similarities in the gospels between the ntcc leaders and the Pharisees. The Pharisees used to follow Jesus around for the soul purpose of finding fault with him. Davis was the same way. Speaking to folks that were in the ministry in the ntcc, they will often share how that Davis would call them and jack them up. He would find fault with them for doing things that were no where close to being wrong according to the bible. Kekel is the same way. He loves to jack people up for stupid stuff.
Like if you get blessed in any way you must have been sinning but if you turn over your blessing to them this fixes the sin you committed. Don't worry they will find something else to say you did wrong.
Kekel calls at the odds time. If you don't answer when he calls you better have an answer even telling him the truth he accuses you of lying.
Kekel I was out soul-winning so I missed your call. Prove it. hmmmm lets see I was on this street.
Okay should I knock on the house that had a mean dog ask them to call Kekel so he has a witness to what I was doing. No maybe I will ask the guy that says if I didn't get off his property he would call the police. No no no I got it I will have the one that doesn't speak English to call and let him know I was soul-winning.
I know we are in the days of cell phones. Lets see we are standing at a door. The phone rings it is Kekel. The man must answer it....still at door and the door opens. There standing at this persons' door is a man on the phone and woman looking lost. The person that answers is wondering are these people lost or did their car break down. Then woman asks the person to come to their church. That person decides no broken car no they are not lost no they are just nuts.
Kekel has no idea what it means to work hard to care for your household. He has never built a church and has no idea what a pioneer work is or what it takes to run a servicemen's home. He does care to learn either because it would be beneath him to do that work or learn what it is takes.
He thinks you just wave a magic wand and out pops everything.
Hugs,
Julie
Julie said:
"Like if you get blessed in any way you must have been sinning but if you turn over your blessing to them this fixes the sin you committed. Don't worry they will find something else to say you did wrong."
DNA said:
That's exactly how things work in the NTCC. You can't be blessed until you sacrifice, like they did for so many years, (they really have sacrificed nothing). So you give everything expecting that blessing to fill your life like it did for them, but they are never satisfied with your sacrifices. They use people, and when people stop producing to their benefit, they trash them out.
DNA said:
That's exactly how things work in the NTCC. You can't be blessed until you sacrifice, like they did for so many years, (they really have sacrificed nothing). So you give everything expecting that blessing to fill your life like it did for them, but they are never satisfied with your sacrifices. They use people, and when people stop producing to their benefit, they trash them out.
Sacrifice right....they had to sit through service before they can go to the restaurant, they must travel to you that is sacrifice as they collect your money, it is a sacrifice to come up with new insults to you, it is a sacrifice to drive to church, it is a sacrifice to have to be in your presence, it is a sacrifice to be born or married into money, oh yeah it was a sacrifice for Kekel not to have a car when he went to bible school had to ride in someone's else car with a little girl, it was a sacrifice to go to Disney world, it was a sacrifice to have to chose clothes from upper stores so many sacrifices have been made.
Hugs,
Julie
Julie said:
"Sacrifice right"
DNA said:
Let's talk about sacrifice. Kekel defines sacrifice as growing up with his mom in the 60's. Not having a car in bible school and so on. Let's talk about sacrifice. How about having to be raised in the ntcc. That's a real sacrifice.
There are people slobbering over each other thanking them for their contributions, but if the ntcc, goes down, and it's probably closer to happening than a lot of people think, it's going to be because of the courageous actions of those who have exposed Davis and the rest of these hypocrites for what they have done.
Julie, we are very thankful for the sacrifice you made and we believe that you have started a chain reaction that is going to cost the ntcc more than they have ever had to pay. Anyone in their right mind that reads your writings and those of Lisa and Pam, definitely have a lot to consider. It is not easy to go public when crimes of this nature are committed against you. What Ralph and Joan did to you is beyond cruel and they should have been placed in prison for the rest of their natural lives. People are serving life sentences for less than what was done to you.
What Davis did to you and Pam was also something that should have landed him in prison for the rest of his life. Because you shared your testimony of the horrific actions you suffered, Lisa also came forward and shared what she went through being raised in the Ntcc. Pam who was disbelieved by many when she came forward years ago had her accounts of Davis validated by her Younger sister and others. Lisa was extremely brave also in sharing what she shared. Her mother has also committed crimes against her children by abusing them and then abandoning them. She should have also gone to prison for a very long time.
Because of Julie and Lisa there are others that are considering coming forward with similar testimonies of child abuse, sexual abuse and rape, that they experienced in the ntcc. The ntcc is having to do some serious damage control. If you are out there and you have been a victim of sex crimes committed against you by Davis, Kekel, Ashmore, any of the board members, any of the Jordans or Fontenot, you have the opportunity to make a huge difference. As painful as it may seem and I know that you can think of a million excuses not to share this publicly, but you have the opportunity to save future victims by adding your voice to those who have already spoken.
They are desperate and they are doing unprecedented things to cover up their tracks. They want these stories to die along with Davis, so they don't have to answer any more questions. Julie, Pam, Lori and Lisa all grew up and knew of each other in the organization and their accounts of Davis and others are true. There are others out there that are content letting just a few people suffer the shame alone. I'll tell you this much, It's going to be much harder now to commit sex crimes against children in the ntcc then it ever was. Many people who do not know these women are clueless to what they really went through and they are being questioned and ostracized by many people. They have sacrificed everything, while others are out there who know enough to shut this church down, but they will not come forward. I would ask any of you out there that read this to help make this sacrifice worthwhile to these women. Don't leave them alone to continue fighting this battle. Some have shared that they don't believe everything, but they believe most of it. Even if you believe half of what they say, it's enough that you should be fighting against the evil and wicked deeds of the ntcc and not the victims that have come forward.
Do you ever wonder why the ntcc does not take any action to counter the allegations leveled against them? Have you ever considered that they might be true and they don't want this information to be publicized? Put yourself in their shoes, Ntcc'rs and X-ers alike. There is enough public information out in the open right now to sway any court of their guilt. What are they going to say when they are confronted about Fontenot, and how his former wife reported him for raping/molesting his daughter and they harbored him while telling her to take the victim and find another church? What are they going to say when confronted with the question of why they took Ralph St. Clair's license away for six months? Oh he raped his daughter and rather than reporting it to the police we decided to cover it all up. That will go over very well in a court of law. What are they going to say when asked why they moved Johnny Jordan to Washington, and had Barbara Norton abandon Her 15 year old raped daughter and her disabled son, so they can hide Davis' sins?
You kidding me? The last thing these hypocrites want to do is to have to face all of these questions publicly. They are having a hard enough time right now convincing their brainwashed followers that this stuff never happened.
If your good name and your Churche's good name were being drug through the dirt and there was no proof or nobody to validate those claims would you sit back and do nothing? You can only say "The devil is lying" so many times and then it gets old. They are silent because they know that the accounts of child abuse, child sexual abuse, sexual abuse, adultery, physical abuse and everything they have been accused of is true.
They went after others and had their blogs taken down for a lot less, and now they are supposedly allowing people to lie about sexual abuse? I don't buy it. This stuff is true and they don't want this information to become public. They don't want to have to defend themselves in a court of law on this subject because they have always been on the wrong side of it and if this ever goes public or gets statewide or national attention, it will cause a split bigger than a 10.0 earth quake on the San Andreas fault as California breaks off into the ocean.
They are guilty and that's why they shut up. You know how you can tell? Listen up all you ntcc'rs, because this is the psychology of your leaders. It's just like Kinson and his pitiful attempt to cover up his trip to the whore house.
"I never slept with anyone other than my wife." Yeah, right, we believe you Phil.
They very seldom address the sins that were committed, but they discredit the ones who were victimized. They won't come out and say that Davis never did any of these things, but they will say that Julie and Lisa are liars and that they are of the Devil. They attack the victims but never do anything substantial to exonerate the predators and pedophiles who they hide.
Ask them directly for a yes or no answer and you will become the next person that they trample on. If you were to ask the question: "Did Davis ever commit adultery?", or "Did Davis ever touch a child inappropriately?", or "Did Davis ever spank young girls with their underwear pulled down?", you would not get a "yes" or "no" answer, you would get publicly scorned and humiliated, because they are guilty and that is their way of weaseling out of answering truthfully.
I think it's is awful that Barb your church says they want me to shut. Up about the blog. I am saying this for the last time after today I will not allow you to break my spirit like you did today. I know you said it will shock you if I make into Heaven again I am not saved by your or kekkel the child molester I am saved by grace through Jesus Christ My Lord. I don't care if you believe me about Johnny Jordan rape.. Just because I don't go to your cult dozent make me a sinner . I know you are saying that we won't go to the same place you are so correct you need to repent. Or you will go to Hell as we'll as Davis yes he is in hell
I do not understand the meaning of your phone call today. Or why you insist on going on and on about Davis death I don't care about him or that cult and child molesters. I really don't care that kekkel and Tanya. Is your bodies but just remember. When things go down as they will they need so,embody to blame to clean up there. Mess. As for me being sick it's not of Satan because I am evil did you ever stop to think that maybe somehow through everything it will glorify God as he heals me. It's like I told you if God wants to test me and I go blind fits ok but I will still praise his name ... You laughed but think of the story of Job God tested him over and over he still praised God name
You say. It's evil to watch movies you only have a computer for notes ... You went on and on about Home Alone and you won't watch that. It is a child movie not PORN........ If is is for notes why are your so called pastors reading the blog ? So you don't know I will tell you because they want to know .... And the funny thing is they keep asking you over and over if you do this or if you said this. .... So you had to get up in the church and apologize for me please don't and don't prY for me it's a waste of your breath until you truly repent of your sins God dose not listen to the prayers of a sinner
As for my daughter Melissa since you can't even remember her name you will never ever look at her and tell you hate her. You are right she is like me I taught her to speak up for herself be confident and take no crap from anybody.. So Micheal he new pastor the new Hot shot in charge yes you can. Use this material for service I am sure you are running of things to bully the church people about .....sin I am the new famous person that you like to talk about Being that famous I am willing to sign my name to any papers to the cult members after all you have a town in a up roar makes me special....
Barb Joan, and Ralph, how many people did you save? Or how many people did your pray for today? Oh I forgot you where to busy gossip. About me. And Julie you know the sinner. You call my house I promise you I will slap all of you with a order of protection! I. Am not a child any more . Kekkel so you want me to shut my mouth told Barb to call me and tell me to sit my mouth we'll I am not until all Ruth comes out... What are you going to do spank me? Your problem is the truth is coming out I won't stop until the door of Ntcc are closed forever. You are evil just another mini me davis
I just found it and thought it might be informative/helpful.
http://www.churchlawandtax.com/web/2011/january/top-5-reasons-churches-end-up-in-court.html
Wow, lisa! Good for you. We love you, thank you, Julie, Lori, and Pam. Your words, and your testimony are already doing what years of blogging hasn't been able to do. People who check out the "church" on line, can read your stories. And they believe you! They are leaving, and they won't be back. They actually love their children, and want to protect them from predators, and charlatans like these people. When we came to God, we looked for the best in people, and we ignored the obvious hypocrisy of these "leaders", their families, and their associates.
If they thought they had a legal claim against these allegations, they would have already filed a law suit for liable, or slander. Bring it on! As you ladies have said. The truth will always prevail.
You have gored their scared ox, or should I say, THEIR GOLDEN CALF!!!
I do want to finish the conversation I had with Barb on the phone the other day .. Barb., You may have broken my spirit yesterday and tore my heart into a million pieces but today I am stronger thanks to Jesus Christ ..have you ever. Wanted to stop and look around you because you are not happy you cursed on the phone with PAm conversation. With you? What hold do they have on you? I don't understand you kept on about Davis death what about when your own son Terry died you did not even grieve like this for him. And he was your own flesh and blood. I have to ask did you have a affair with him. Because you grieve like a lover would grieve over the loss of there mate....
In our conversation you made it sound like Johnny Jordan's is going to Ntcc if I find out I will. Personally call the police a sex offender can't be around children... Why is it as a victim people make it out to be our fault. For you to call me a whore as a child when I was not having sex He took the one thing I can never have back.. You though where out there sleeping around. With men grandma when dad came and asked your hand in marriage. Told you to marry dad to cover up your sins in those days it was looked down for a women to be with boys men you married him not for love but to hide sins under the rug. You did is before Davis you where pregnant. .
I believe in my heart you where very jealous of us girls all of us because we where pure we tried to be holy back then but the road they kept leading us to Davis was full of lies and sin. There was nobody to listen or to show us the way . But I can ya this through all of this Jesus is in my life and it dose not belong to. You it belongs to Christ who died for me and through everything you put me through Jesus was standing there holding my hand and loving me when you couldn't.... And I don't get mad and curse and yell at people saying they made me curse my God . When he came in my life I changed I want my light to show so the whole world can see it to the point people will want to know who he is..
You are so concerned about make up pants and shorts that somehow thT whole church has lost it's way.. Barb I told you how PAm wants to have a relationship with you your words where I don't care she is telling the world Davis raped her I will never except that. Then you told me. That if I kept talking about Johnny Jordan who is a brother you would cast me out! I have a news flash for you the day you walked out with everything was the day I cast you out along time ago. See I prayed and I have asked God for years please take the hate and bitterness out of my life because it's unholy. But please fill my life and my heart where it dosent hurt so much I don't love you I don't hate you I am just concerned for your soul
My last message for the night Ntcc people I pray every night for all of you thT God will open your eyes and open your heart. I do care about you but you are blinded take. Step back and look around you ...rust me God gave you those children in the bible Jesus ask for you to bring the little children to him he loved them he did not spank them....your life god want you to be happy. But a lot of you are so scared because all they talk about is Hell rust me cults do this to scare the people.. With the way they treat you calling black brothers the n word . Going up and punching you in the. Arm making fun of you and making you feel like you are a bad person.. Please my brothers and sister leave we will help you ...my prayers will be for your safety. Add before it's to late that you surrender to Jesus
Thank you Anonymous for acknowledging these Women for the sacrifices they have made. It hasn't been easy for them, but they have stood for what is right. Many are criticizing them and are more interested in interrogating them than the predators that violated them.
They have been catching a lot of heat from relatives still in the ntcc and others that exert more energy against them than they do against the ntcc hypocrites.
It's nice to see that there are people out there that have the right perspective. I hope people will get smart and want to get their children away from the perverts and predators that are in the ntcc. People, do yourselves a favor and spare your children from the awkward child rearing practices of the ntcc. Even if your children escape the child molesters in the ntcc, they most likely will not escape the weirdness of being raised like a freak in a circus sideshow. Most children that are raised in the ntcc have almost no coping skills and have a really hard time adapting to a normal existence in re post ntcc life. They can also live a Christian life much easier, if they not brought up by hypocrites that live double standards. They will function much better as a young Christian without being so hateful towards others as they are taught by ntcc leaders.
Lisa said:
"Barb I told you how Pam wants to have a relationship with you and your words were I don't care she is telling the world Davis raped her I will never except that. Then you told me. That if I kept talking about Johnny Jordan who is a brother you would cast me out! I have a news flash for you the day you walked out with everything was the day I cast you out along time ago."
DNA said:
Barbara is a sick woman, and you ntcc'rs need to pray for her. See if any or your ministers still have any demon removing capabilities, because any woman that would call a serial child sex predator, a 'brother', and forsake and abandon their own family, has got to have some really dark spiritual issues. You might have to outsource it to another church that isn't trying to hide perverts, or promoting adultery. Perhaps you can find a minister of a church that doesn't make a ton of money by fleecing their congregation. You know someone that loves people and is not always tearing them down. I know what you need. "A servant of All" would be perfect. If you know any miracle workers like that abide outside of your sleezy organization, (because we all know that God can't bless you when there is sin in your camp), perhaps you can invite them over to preach a revival for you and while he or she is there, you can have them intervene with the General Board members that have lost their way. Many of them need a good dose of salvation. Others need bigger miracles than that. You know miracles that Davis could not perform because he was too interested in getting into teenagers skirts. Don't ask Kekel either because he is the least spiritual of them all, and has a history of spanking other peoples little girls naked bottoms.
There are some that still think there is hope for the ntcc, if you could remove all the corruption and those that ignored it. Maybe that is possible, but you would have to get rid of the entire general board and a lot of the self serving, tithe coveting, neighbor hating hirelings that are in it for themselves. It's sad that something that once seemed so promising was nothing more than a huge money making enterprise, hidden by holiness outward standards, diseased with inside ugliness and toxic to the point of poisoning the masses with every type of perversion under the sun. And they used God to make it happen. I say tear it all down and start something real in it's place. Use the buildings as healing centers for the victims. Re-distribute all of the money, back to those who gave their futures away to build it.
The fair thing to do would be to put the executive board members in jail. Liquidate the ntcc's entire estate, Take the Bonco, and make it into a cult recovery center with medical facilities and housing for those who have struggled the most and grew up in the ntcc and have forfeited their childhood. Take all of the rest of their personal assets and church property and sell it. This would be a huge amount of money, well over a hundred million dollars. Split it up between all of the cult members who suffered for more than a couple years and pro rate it so the ones who suffered the most and paid tithe into the organization, get back the most. If they were raised as children in the ntcc, they get a bonus for having their childhood robbed from them. If they have been molested or hurt really bad, they get a house in the Bonco or the equivalent in the state that they wish. That would be justice.
Hey,peep's been working,sorry for the long delay of posting....:)I still feel like mother bar bera isn't getting what Lisa is saying,maybe she never will ,but then again since her Alpha passed maybe she'll get a clue what the real world is like...She doesn't know she lives behind the wall of Sodom and Gormorah..I will say this for you to not believe your girl's is shameful,your not any kind of mother or even deserve to be called a mother,or a woman of Christ......youll all preach about having worldly idol's of the world,Davis was your idol,he was an worldly idol...You my friend are no better....Lol were better then you,Judge not that ye shall be judge,the day cometh so get your boot's on its going to get deep.....XXX Member.....
Anonymous said:
"I still feel like mother bar bera isn't getting what Lisa is saying,maybe she never will ,but then again since her Alpha passed maybe she'll get a clue what the real world is like"
DNA said:
She probably will never understand. People like Barbara learn to lie to themselves and make excuses for their own evil deeds. She thinks that she is going to ride Davis' coat tail to heaven. She's riding his coat tail alright, but not to heaven. I'm not afraid to say it, because he was a child molester and serial adulterer. He never made it right with the people he abused and by his own words, he has condemned himself. He said it's not truly repentance unless you make it right with the people you sinned against. It's not my place to put anyone in hell, but it's God's place. That doesn't mean that I'm placing Davis there. He placed himself there. If I was out molesting children and doing the things he has done all the while preaching at others and condemning them, than I would go to hell to and would deserve it.
God makes it pretty clear, and if we read it out of the bible, then it is not us saying it, but we are just repeating it. If there ever was a person that was deserving of hell, I would have to say that Davis would be at the top of the list. If Davis is in heaven than that means all of the other child molesters, and rapists, and hypocrites and money grubbers and liars, cheaters and thieves would have to be their also. "And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.." 1 Co 6:11 Meaning we no longer do those things. It's even worse when you profess Christianity and live contrary. You make it so that others doubt and stop believing.
I believe that anyone can be forgiven, and if God can forgive me, he can forgive anyone. But people still have to ask and change. We all know this, it's not new. If we steal things and repent, then we stop stealing things. It's the same way with Davis or anyone else. You don't get a pass because you've proclaimed yourself to be a super apostle. If you preach one thing and live another, you are a hypocrite. If you get rich off of people that you call your brother, then you are taking advantage of them, and they have nothing. Lazurus is comforted and the rich are in torment. It's going to be the same way with Davis and all his buddies if they don't make it right.
Post a Comment