A Photographic Journey into The Days of Future Past Brought to you by the X-men.
We have been struggling to keep up with all the changes in the ntcc. So much has taken place right under everybody's noses that when you take a step back and look at it all, it's astounding that so many old timers are still in. What used to be a sin, is no longer a sin according to the ntcc. They say that a picture is worth a thousand words, so we'll try not to write a thousand words in this blog post; for the pictures are so much more meaningful than anything we can say. The people in the pictures are doing fun and innocent things. That's what people are supposed to do. Can you imagine Churches in the ntcc getting away with this stuff in the ntcc 20 or 30 years ago? The sad thing is that it's being run by the same hucksters and the lion share of all the money is going towards enriching the lives of Mike and Tanya Kekel. Ask yourself seriously, Could we have lived like this back when RWD roamed the countryside in his Million Dollar RV?
Mal. 3:6 "For I am the LORD, I change not".
Apparently, someone didn't get the memo.
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Praise God! Davis is Gone. Now we
can Play Football and Volleyball! |
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| Picnics and Barbecue! |
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| A Church Picnic at an ntcc Near You! |
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| Cameras at Conference? |
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| An Innocent Trip to the Museum. Grant Set the Standard for Children's Attire. |
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WWRD: "What Would R-dub Do"
if he Rolled up to Your Church
and Saw This Going On? |
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| WWRD: "What Would R-dub Do?" |
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| Swimming? |
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| Boating? |
133 comments:
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Holy Mackral Batman! Did I see shorts on kids? Did I see they were at a museum? Oh my stars!!! Missed sex swimming! Fan me and pass me my mint julep, this is more than I can take!
Straight up hilarious!
Is the video from NTCC?
Anonymous said...
Straight up hilarious!
DNA said:
It is funny and weird. You look at these pictures and you say, Is this really the ntcc? All these pictures and the video are from the ntcc. The ntcc has ruined so many lives and now they are pretending it never happened and they are still getting rich by fleecing God's flock. I mean these unsuspecting people look happy and content, with no knowledge of what is happening to them. Not a care in the world. I'm going to heaven! Let me give my money to this huckster.
Anonymous said...
Is the video from NTCC?
DNA said:
Yes, it's from Glendale, Arizona ntcc. Selling bottles of water for that they paid $1.80 for $4.00 per bottle. I was reading some boring laws and statutes that explain why it is so hard to prosecute a church. The separation of church and state make it very difficult. If someone in the private sector were to take business money and convert it into their own private slush fund, it would be called embezzlement. For example, if a board member of a business that is incorporated were to dip into the business account and use the money for personal things such as $250.000.00 cars, Million Dollar RVs or mansions, it would be easy to prosecute. When a religious huckster does the exact same thing it's like pulling the teeth out of a cobra trying to get charges to stick against them. They are allowed to spend money "for religious purposes" and the definition for that is so broad that they can get away with saying, "We need a million Dollar RV to assist us in winning people to God". These liars and crooks are unaccountable to anyone and their congregations are so naive that they empty their wallets and bank accounts to enable these God robbers. That's what they are. They accuse their church members of robbing God by not paying their tithe, while they are the real God robbers because they are using false doctrine to embezzle money for their own use and purpose. When a Church leader embezzles money it's not even considered embezzling by the law. This huckster that is selling water bottles is no different. He might follow every one of the ntcc's rules and keep perfect books, but when they benefit personally from the tithe and offerings that they are forced to pay if they want to be a member, they are robbing from their own church members.
Brother Ken I have kept silent, on this new blog and have not brought to light, things that have happened to People from Johnny Jordan, I'm one of them, Julie is another one. Johnny does not denies, what he did to us who ever you are Mark G. and for the record, as much as I have forgave him, He opened a whole lot of new emotions and it is on record, on recorded phone calls from the prison, on August 12 that he said to me enjoyed what happened to me, and said he also pretended to be on drugs that night, I dropped the phone in shock. I was so sick in my stomach, it is one thing to go threw what we have experienced, and another for your attacker to say he enjoyed it. the one thing I can say like I have said in the past Johnny and other brothers took Meds from me back in the early 80s and that night I know he was on something, I know that I'm probable all over the place with what I'm trying to say, but Mark G. how would you feel if you or a member of your family, gets sexually assaulted and then your attacker tells you he enjoyed it.? sorry for venting But you can't trust any supporters of NTCC, and the fact that he said it on a recorded phone conversation shows just how wrong you people are in NTCC, believe in a lie and be dammed. NTCC has been leading you people to the slaughter just to get your money from you. one would think that a person after all this time we would get past this, but when the person that did this to you can rub it in your face like it was nothing it does not help, and another thing Mark G. I also have letters that he talks about what he did to other people, NTCC can not do any thing but damage control and fool the gullible, in to thinking these things did not happen, but they can't erase the prison tapes, can they now.
He's too busy trying to investigate people on behalf of the ntcc to worry about the actual well being of a victim. It seems like an obsession. He was fine with everything on our blog until we brought up Julie, who he says that he remembers holding her when she was a child. He's also has been on record saying that some of what she said is true. Now he's going to start a YouTube channel against Julie and this blog. Why would you do that? Well, he actually has been threatening to do that for some time, but he always promises to do things and never sees them through. We wouldn't have any problem with Mark G. if he would have respected our request to leave her alone. A lot of people are very uncomfortable with the subject of sexual abuse and he seems to be one of them.
The majority of people on this planet are gullible when it comes to religion. Cults and controlling churches know how to influence people to do what they want them to do. It's like training a dog. If the dog obeys your command he gets a Scooby snack. If he disobeys he gets scolded. A dog is not much different than many people are. A dog wants to please his owner and the ntcc wants to own people. People don't normally give ten percent of their money to anyone. If you don't believe me try walking up to a hundred people and tell them that God wants them to give ten percent of all their money to you and see how many will do it. But they'll walk right into a church and after a few brain washing sessions, they will empty their wallets into the offering plate. They have to be trained to do it. Heaven is their reward and hell is where bad people go. If you don't pay your tithe, you are a bad person and you go to hell. They owned us and tithe was just a small part of it. We forced ourselves to live in a spiritual wasteland because we thought we thought we were pleasing God. How did we think that? We didn't come up with that on our own, we were taught to think that way. Hitler brain washed an entire nation and even some of the neighboring countries. The ntcc leaders are experts at brain washing. They can get people to do things that those people would never have thought of doing and they do it gladly, thinking that it pleases God and that it was their own decision. Thank you Ken for your comment. We are going to bring your comments forward to our new blog post to make sure everyone sees them.
Condescending is a word that fits the ntcc perfectly. In fact, they probably invented the word. They like to show their superiority from the get go. They know which buttons to push to manipulate people. We don't agree with everyone, and people are entitled to their opinions. But when they come on this blog and support the positions of the ntcc, what should we do? We know better. The ntcc is the run by the same bunch of hucksters, and they taught you well. Their motives are still the same.
We can argue back and forth or we can choose to not waste hours of our time and not publish it. Either way we are going to be looked at as condescending. What about the person who says we are condescending because we don't entertain their arguments? You have to ask those people, What about you? It seems like you are condescending by coming on 'the blogs' and telling us how we ought to be. Isn't it condescending to come on to a voluntary blog and tell the moderator(s) how to run it?
Davis had one approach that was great for starting an organization, and he got rich doing it. Now that the 40 year prophesy of Davis is fulfilled and "compromise" is spreading like wild fire; Kekel has another plan. The number of churches has been reduced but the congregations of the ones that are established are getting bigger and the church buildings are getting more pricey. The Kekel plan is to turn it into a megachurch, once he purges the "holiness" old timing Davis lovers out of the church. Conferences might be dwindling in size, which is a result of them not being mandatory, but the local churches are doing better because they are slowly giving people a little more freedom that's not their's to give. They will never stop preaching against tithe. That's condescending.
"how many water bottles did you get"
Says somebody on the youtube video.
"two?, ok, oh and a ice water, well alright"
Reminded me of why I straight up just want to slap people, in righteous indignation. Such a sly way of imposing the idea that this guys approval is something to strive for.
She should of said "that's my business, and get that camera out of my face".
If you visit Ashmore's Facebook page you will find this info:
Founded in December 2014
Hours
Wed:
7:30 pm - 9:00 pm
Sun:
11:30 am - 1:00 pm
Short Description
CHURCH
Mission
To reveal Christ to the world
through signs and wonders and mighty
deeds and the power of the spirit of God.
Awards
Doctorate degree in Theology
from New Testament Christian Seminary
This info can be found on Ashmore's Jesus Revival Ministries Facebook page under the about section. This really says alot about Ashmore and about the ntcc. His mission is to reveal Christ through signs and wonders and mighty deeds. What about plain old fashion salvation, Jim? Signs and wonders are great if they are real. How much do people have to pay for these signs and wonders? Open your books Jim and show everyone what you do with thier money.
Wow, A Doctorate in Theology from the New Testament Christian Seminary. Did they actually give you a card that says that? Who issued that to you, Rodger W. Davis who never could produce one? Where did you do get your Master's and Bachelor's degrees?Everyone else who leaves the ntcc does so in direct rebellion to the gospel according to the general board. All preachers that leave, do so on bad terms and are required to leave turn in their Ministers licenses.
Article 26 of the ntcc bylaws states:
(F) Any minister, or his companion,
holding credentials with the New
Testament Christian Churches of America
cannot hold credentials, nor hold an office,
in any other church organization or
religious fellowship that issues credentials
to preach the Gospel.
We assume that you didn't get a special exemption from them being that you are now referring to them as "the whore". If I were you, Jim, I would list New Testament Christian College, or Mid-western bible institute where you actually got your "Doctorate in Theology" wink wink.
"We assume that you didn't get a special exemption from them being that you are now referring to them as "the whore"."
So that means he got his credentials from the whore.
So is long hair still mandatory or was that always policy? I know there was a trumpet that went over this as a biblical teaching from Paul (Thus God).
Is there anything from the holiness RWD days that they've held onto?
I hear from several different people that women can now trim the split-ends of their hair. This makes me think what women have to do, go to their pastor and say tomorrow I going to have my split-ends cut off so he looks at their hair judges where the split-ends are then measures it and tells the lady how much she can have off? Then next service checks to see if she cut more than that? Now for the money. Does she have to do it herself or does the pastor's wife get to do it? I mean you don't want to waste NTCC's I mean your money now on the beauty salon? Plus they do other sinful things at some salon like make-up. Oops that's right make-up isn't a sin anymore so that doesn't matter. Oh but the money. I mean you have to steal money from your own self to do this for yourself; its horrible.
I remember as a kid pointing out a beauty salon to Joan and asking what kind of place it was. She said, "It was a place where evil women drank alcohol and talked about other women behind their backs. She didn't tell me it had anything to do with hair until a few years later. I got in trouble for my response. I said Oh talk about other women like the board members' wives do. I was just comparing but Joan was angry thinking I was calling them evil.
Hugs,
Julie
Julie said:
"I hear from several different people that women can now trim the split-ends of their hair."
DNA said:
Just a little bit of compromise at a time. Olson will probably tell you that it seemed good to the Holy Ghost to cut the split ends off and wear make up now. Davis used to say it doesn't matter how many coats of paint you put on an old barn. It's still an old barn.
Julie said:
"Oh but the money. I mean you have to steal money from your own self to do this for yourself; its horrible."
DNA said:
That's how it works in the ntcc. They take away your freedom as if it were theirs to take away. They control every aspect of your life. Then they tell you we'll allow you to cut your split ends. You are a grown adult and you need someone to tell you that it's alright to cut your split ends? Silly ntcc'rs. Your freedom belongs to you. There is no easy way to introduce compromise to a bunch of brain washed suckers unless you run off all the old timers. Kekel is working his way down the list and he's run off quite a few. Dr. Ashmore left the ntcc. Who will be next?
You are right Julie. People are giving so much money to the ntcc that they can't afford make up. David Tieman Sr. used to brag about making a payment on his maxed out credit card with another credit card. Nichelle Tieman used to give him extremely dorky looking haircuts to save money. I mean he could have done better putting a bowl on his head. That has got to be a sin or at the very least a violation of Olson's Practical Theology rules. It's definitely a worse sin then a woman cutting a few split ends out of her hair.
Has anyone tried talking to some of the veteran preachers in the field (old timers) to get their take?
I'd love to know what Olivarez thinks. Nice guy but he was deep into the holiness thing. Same with Maholic.
I should give them a call...
Wonder when it's going to be ok to be a homosexual. Hey, it's the 21st century man.
Olivarez was pretty cool but he is stuck in the ntcc stupid mode. Not that he is stupid but they had to dumb him down so he could do his thinking for him. The longer you stay in the more toasted your brain gets. When you learn to think for yourself your brain begins to reactivate but some people choose to continue practicing and living by borg warped standards. They become a prisoner to themselves because they won't let go of religion.
Oh oh you better watch out don, you mentioned Nichelle and mark was all over you for bringing her out on your posts!
I guess the only holiness they've held onto is the wing tips.
I remember the conference we had in Myrtle Beach one year. Except for the homo vote, it was awesome; we were at an actual vacation spot (even if it was off-season). At night we walked up and down the beach and swam in our clothes like dorks, but it was a blast. Even Tanya and Verna jumped in (although the women swam in one area and the men in another). I finally learned to bodysurf right, even though I grew up in Florida practically living at the beach. We soaked in the hot tubs outside the condos we were staying in. Then RW got up and threw a cloud of guilt on us, saying "I heard some folks were out swimming in the ocean. Do I approve? I don't." So that was the end of that; it was back to the fake holiness act.
The weird part is that some of the people on the pictures that you are showing on their website are no longer in the org.
Vic said:
" Even Tanya and Verna jumped in (although the women swam in one area and the men in another). I finally learned to bodysurf right, even though I grew up in Florida practically living at the beach. We soaked in the hot tubs outside the condos we were staying in. Then RW got up and threw a cloud of guilt on us, saying "I heard some folks were out swimming in the ocean. Do I approve? I don't." "
DNA said:
It makes you wonder how many cool vacations the Davis's and Kekels took. Someone said they ran into the Kekel's with Grant in tow at Disney's 'It's a Small World' exhibit. It was shared that the Kekel's went to Hawaii and only attended church service one day but they spent a week there. These vacations are financed by the brain washed masses. How many other vacations have you paid for that you don't even know about? If they had a conference in a nice place like Myrtle Beach, perhaps it was a small glimpse of what what they do when they are roaming the country in their Recreation Vehicles on your dime. When you are a subject in a dictatorship you don't question the royalty because there are consequences. You bow down to them and obey their rules without question and hope you don't do anything to offend them.
Bryan Hill said:
"Reminded me of why I straight up just want to slap people, in righteous indignation. Such a sly way of imposing the idea that this guys approval is something to strive for.
She should of said "that's my business, and get that camera out of my face".
DNA said:
That's funny Bryan, and that's exactly how these people should approach these jerks. She should have got up and dumped her water bottle all over him and sell your own junk. That's what these ntcc'rs do. Tankersley clearly made a spectacle of the whole ordeal trying to draw attention to the great work he was doing by publishing a video for all the other churches to see. He even has a promotional product presentation that we haven't posted yet that shows him teaching others how much profit he makes on each bottle and how to market them. At face value, I know people are going to think that what he is doing is innocent and that we are big time sinners for calling him out. "You should be happy that the ntcc is changing." They aren't changing their blackened hearts, they are just changing their approach. They are trying to blend in with society so they can continue to fleece the flock, which is what this is all about.
I'm glad you see it for what it is Bryan. Many don't. The sack races, the boat rides, the watermelon eating contests are what normal people do but these hucksters are using it to keep people around and support them financially. They are professional flock fleecers and they know that they are using these people. It all used to be a sin, and that worked until these hucksters were exposed by all of the bloggers and Factnet. Thousands have read what we all have to say and many left the organization because of they were exposed as frauds and crooks. It wasn't the bloggers that did all the exposing, but the majority of the info came from the people participated in the blogs and shared the unnecessary trauma that they experienced in the ntcc. So now that we all have wasted decades of our lives supporting these self righteous abusers, we are supposed to applaud them for 'loosening' their standards? They are still using their phony holiness standards to weed people out of the ntcc, just ask Danny Brill whose wife deserted him for giving his daughter a swim lesson without a shirt on. But their changing and we should be jumping up and down with joy because they are "allowing" people to experience a few normal things.
Anonymous said:
"So that means he got his credentials from the whore.
DNA said:
He might as well have. Most people get their degrees from an accredited university. The ntcc is not only a credited university, but they take back the credentials that they issue you so that all the slavery you went through at the brain washing academy means nothing when you are back on the streets. Ashmore's Jesus Revival Ministries Facebook page declares that Ashmore got his Doctorate degree from New Testament Christian Seminary. It must have been an 'honorary degree' specially issued by Davis, who has never been able to produce his own credentials. One Fraud teaching others to be frauds and giving them degrees. That doesn't surprise me at all. Their are online organizations that masquerade as Christians that will give a degree to anyone who sends them $35.00. Who's going to question it anyway? You don't have to produce credentials for anything. In all the IRS documents, legal documents and real estate documents we've poured over, we have yet to see any copies of credentials as required documentation.
Those of you X-ntcc'rs that can't find a job ought to try becoming a preacher. All it costs to start your business is $35.00. If you don't mind taking advantage of people you can become a cult leader and start raking in the bucks. Your average ntcc'r that has been in the borg for 1 year or 2 already has the knowledge it takes to be a cult leader. Just act like you got your information from God and start going from door to door. There are plenty of brain washed suckers out there that haven't been tapped yet.
Anonymous said:
Anonymous said...
Oh oh you better watch out don, you mentioned Nichelle and mark was all over you for bringing her out on your posts!
I guess the only holiness they've held onto is the wing tips.
DNA said:
Not sure what Mark's problem was with that. We will stop bringing up Nichelle Tieman when she stops manipulating people. We know what the Tieman's are all about and we have inside knowledge that they haven't changed. Mark always had a soft spot for elderly women. Have you seen a picture of Nichelle Tieman lately? She looks like she is old enough to be her husbands mother. Mark G. Said: "Well, as far as Sister Davis, You know her much better than I do. I won't dispute that. I always thought that she was pretty,especially when she was younger." Barf. Mark didn't find Tanya attractive however as he referred to her as: "a puffy,swollen, bloated,loud,bawdy,overly opinionated preachers wife who wears her overly tight clothes and looks like a piece of sausage casing in them". Tanya never did anything to him but insult him and he posted all kinds of 'hateful' comments against her. But it's not alright for me to say anything about Nichelle Tieman who actually did as much to destroy my life as anyone in the ntcc. Mark had this to say about Nichelle Tieman: "she made a mistake. Just leave her alone, for crying out loud! How much longer are you going to go on about that poor woman?" This is outright hypocrisy. But that's how he has always been and he'll probably never change.
It's funny that he would tell you to leave her alone, we can turn it around and tell him to leave Julie alone. Works both ways.
Anonymous said...
So is long hair still mandatory or was that always policy? I know there was a trumpet that went over this as a biblical teaching from Paul (Thus God).
DNA said:
Back in the 80's there was a propaganda document that was handed out that dealt with the issue of hair. They take everything to the extreme in the ntcc. I still have that document somewhere and I might publish it on the reflections page if I can find it. The emphasis seemed to be based around a question that asked, "How long is long"? Implying that if God said that a woman's hair was cut at all, she was in rebellion to God. The ntcc makes a huge stretch when they translate Paul's teaching on a woman praying with with her head covered to never touching your hair with a scissors. That's just like the Eve in the garden of Eden telling the devil, "But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die." In actuality God only told her and Adam not to eat it. If you look at the ntcc's hair doctrine the way that the ntcc taught it, Verna would be splitting hell wide open for wearing a wig. They would preach hypocritically about the Baptist women wearing hats and others wearing vales. How is it any different wearing a wig? Verna might as well go to church with her head completely shaven if she is going to wear a wig. Davis once blasted a young girl for wearing a bow in her hair. If they focused as much attention on salvation as they did all those controlling false doctrines, the world would be a much better place.
Anonymous said...
Is there anything from the holiness RWD days that they've held onto?
Another Anonymous said:
I guess the only holiness they've held onto is the wing tips.
DNA said:
That might be the same anonymous answering their own question but it's true in the sense that the ntcc considers outward appearance to be holiness. Everybody was so brainwashed that they strove to emulate Davis and Ashmore. They are both gone now so why continue the facade? Isn't it strange that Kekel who never kept Davis's double standards but was in the "unfortunate position of enforcing them", took over the ntcc's top position in it's power structure? Davis jacked up and humiliated every other preacher and board member that ever showed the slightest bit of hesitation in following every word that came out of his mouth to perfection. Kekel threw Davis under the bus several times and broke so many rules that you can't count them and still Davis never said a peep against Kekel. The rules didn't come from God they came from Davis. The rules weren't for Davis and Kekel to follow, they were for everyone else to follow. The ntcc is a family owned and operated crooked business.
I'm not sure what kind of psychological state you have to be in to see the changes that have happened and stick around. To have a vasectomy, to preach the devil vision, to preach the hair, to preach against vacations, family, on and on and see that all torn down and know that your current leader is doing whatever he wants...
I just don't get it.
Mike
I attended the ceremony where Ashmore was granted his "Doctor's of Divinity." Hilarious. A guy with phony credentials himself handing out more phony credentials. I think they gave one to Pop Gaylord later on. There was supposed to be some kind of Master's degree conferred after a person attended 60 AST lectures, but I don't think anyone ever received one of those. I've got a bogus B.Th myself; not worth the paper it's printed on. Someday I'm going to frame it and hang it in a place of honor near the toilet.
I was digging thru some of my old filed paperwork and found a book written by RW Davis called "THE ANSWER". The address to send your order to was Mid Western Bible institute 2170 forest avenue. I got a wild hair and looked it up on google maps and found Roger Wilson Motors, 6855 Manchester Rd, Saint Louis, MO 63143 314-570-7311 right down the street. I thought that is odd, what a coincidence, so I went to the webisght and right on the homepage the word "TESTIMONIALS" then a list of happy customers. It just had an uncanny resemblance to how I think he would actually set up this homepage. Could it be that right down the street of where he started his ministry the Roger Wilson Auto sales is owned by the Davis empire?
I recall at one conference rwd taught that the church was not a place to sell stuff. He gave an example about how back in the days of his early ministry there was some needs at the church and some ladies were gonna have a bake sale and such to get funds for the church but I think some other minister told him why not just take out a collection instead of selling stuff.
I guess it doesn't matter anything that rw said or taught, he is gone now so everybody is just doing their own thing,
I think there's a church that is doing presentation of babies now.
Well, Rodger is spelled wrong, but the place is right at the corner of Manchester and Forest Ave. I'm pretty sure that wasn't there when I lived on Manchester just a block away, but it's conceivable he owned some more of the real estate around there and cranked it up later. He used to own a couple places around the corner on Waldemar (well, the org did, anyway). On Google Street View, the old "college" is plainly visible in the background of this car lot, as is our old dorm up the street and the Free Will Baptist church where Tanya and Regina used to go to school before they opened the day school at NTCC. It's also interesting that on the car lot's website, Roger Wilson is "not big on having his picture taken," so we don't get to see his face. It really would be funny if RW had a secret life as a used car salesman right under everyone's noses.
WHAT??? How could this have gone under our noses? Can anyone verify this?
Verify what? It's all out there on the internet. Why do you think davis hated open communication, the internet, and t.v.? He wanted everyone ignorant / uninformed.
I think it's just a conicidence--the owner is listed as Mildred Wilson.
What was the first name of Davis' first wife; the one before Verna became "the other woman"...?
Speaking of Verna Mae, as her legal name is shown on the land titles for the properties she owns; why does she tell everyone her name is Victoria? You know who uses phony names? Criminals and frauds.
Speaking of frauds, davis, rodger that is, can best be summed up by that one word: FRAUD!
Vic said....
On Google Street View, the old "college" is plainly visible in the background of this car lot, as is our old dorm up the street and the Free Will Baptist church where Tanya and Regina used to go to school before they opened the day school at NTCC.
Julie says....
I attended the Free Will Baptist Church school my second time of living in St. Louis at the same Regina was there after Joan and Ralph got in trouble with the state.
Hugs,
Julie
IMASKINGWHY said...
found a book written by RW Davis called "THE ANSWER". The address to send your order to was Mid Western Bible institute 2170 forest avenue. I got a wild hair and looked it up on google maps and found Roger Wilson Motors, 6855 Manchester Rd, Saint Louis, MO 63143 314-570-7311 right down the street. I thought that is odd, what a coincidence,
Julie says....
I find this interest. When I was a child I sometimes would go with Verna and Tanya to meet with someone to get money that was from some business that RW owned. It was never said what kind of business it was. I was about 6 years old the first time I remember going with her. I remember being very firmly told not to say anything about this to anyone. The second time around of me living in St. Louis I would sometimes be with Verna to go get money but this time it was from someone different. Though they would talk nothing was ever said about what kind of business was going only that since he was the owner he got a bigger share. I asked what the business was one time and Verna got very angry so I never asked again.
When I got older and I saw people get jacked up for trying to open their own business like it was a sin; I thought it was just another one of those things God changed his mind on. I was taught the reason sometimes things that were right at one point that are now wrong or the other way around is God had to keep changing to fit the way things are at the time. Also on rare occasions God didn't make it real clear what he really wanted from his people.
There must have been static on the line to God.
Hugs,
Julie
What's worrisome is the idea that some churches are growing even as the old timers are leaving. All it would take is to successfully transition 2 or 3 medium churches into huge churches and it wouldn't matter that they only graduate 5 men a class. Build a cash cow base and then start marketing and mainstreaming your smaller churches...
I'll be a little bit more worried if they start taking down the fences at Graham. Then you'll see a full on assault to normalize things.
I appreciate the clarification Vic, yea just a coincidence. Hey what was the mid-western bible college at 2170 forest ave? I thought that was his first church, or was Davis's first church the mid-western bible college.
Worrisome? That Christianity in the great old US of A. Thats the nation we live in. Thats the world we live in. Its nothing new. Once you come to the terrible but true realization, you get over the ntcc.
I don't find it worrisome that some ntcc churches or any church for that matter grow.
The LDS churches for example they have hundreds of people and I read that they are building huge temples so I don't find it odd that the ntcc churches will follow the same pattern of growth.
I remember rw teaching or preaching at a conference about this guy a homosexual who was the servicemens home director and his church was growing and God was moving all the while he was committing heinous acts.
So there's no mistake that when Jesus is preached people will continue to get saved, wrong or right people will continue to get invited to ntcc and many will forgo any information contained here and other blogs that's just how it goes.
It used to be a sin in my NTCC... To do just about everything that Grant has been able to do.
It used to be a sin in my NTCC... To dress like Tanya
It used to be a sin in my NTCC... To go to concerts, talkin' to you KEKEL
Julie said:
"I asked what the business was one time and Verna got very angry so I never asked again."
DNA said:
He probably moonlighted as a St. Louis Mob boss. The had plenty of unaccounted for time on his hands, that's for sure. My point being, there is no telling what Davis did when nobody was around. I doubt he was praying for lost souls.
To watch devilvision
For women to go to college
Mike said:
"I'm not sure what kind of psychological state you have to be in to see the changes that have happened and stick around. To have a vasectomy, to preach the devil vision, to preach the hair, to preach against vacations, family, on and on and see that all torn down and know that your current leader is doing whatever he wants...
I just don't get it."
DNA said:
I don't think they notice the changes because they are not focused on them. They are still focused on seeking the approval of their leaders. They are copy cats. Social media exposes their need to seek approval and you can see this on all their Facebook pages. The Kekel's start sharing motivational quotes so now that's all you see on many of the other minister's timelines. They try to out quote each other. If Kekel started sharing music on his Facebook page everyone else would trend in the same direction. Their like schools of fish. When one changes direction, they all change direction.
Vic Johanson said...
I attended the ceremony where Ashmore was granted his "Doctor's of Divinity."
DNA said:
Did that happen before or after they changed from NTCG to NTCC? I heard that they changed names because some other church was using their name, but often wonder what really brought about the name change. Dr. Ash's Facebook page calls it a Doctorate in Theology from the ntcs. I guess it doesn't matter what is written on the piece of paper, it's still just a piece of paper. Not sure what year they started calling it a seminary, it was after I left in 96. They used to mock organizations with seminaries, calling them cemeteries. A year or two ago their was a Facebook page called New Testament Christian Semenary. Guess they didn't know the difference between a Semenary and a Seminary. Scary....
Anonymous said...
I recall at one conference rwd taught that the church was not a place to sell stuff.
DNA said:
Rw used to always teach against bake sales and barbecues or any type of function that involved people getting together and having fun. He would say that God chose the "Foolishness of preaching". Any other method was contrary to his preferences. He learned early in his ministry that if he could keep people living in fear or condemnation, they wouldn't see the obvious things that were taking place right under their noses. In a normal and healthy world, people would look at Davis like, "Who is he to tell me I can't have a church picnic"? In the ntcc, we were taught to ask the question, "Who am I to question their motives"? But we were all too busy working out our own salvation with fear and trembling because our salvation was defined by works in the ntcc. If you weren't reading all the time, praying all the time, reading all the time, going to church all the time or soul winning all the time, you weren't saved. We didn't have time or the will to notice what Davis was doing.
Anonymous IMASKINGWHY said...
I appreciate the clarification Vic, yea just a coincidence. Hey what was the mid-western bible college at 2170 forest ave? I thought that was his first church, or was Davis's first church the mid-western bible college.
DNA said:
I think they started out in Crondelet at least that is as far back as anyone blogging seems to remember. Not sure exactly when the midwestern bible institute was changed to New Testament Christian College. The church name has not always matched the college name, that's for sure. They were ntcg in the early 80's, but the brain washing center was called New Testament Christian College and that was what everybody I knew called it until I got out in 96. At some point they started calling it a Cemetery, I mean Seminary. Perhaps Darwin or Vic might know when the early changes took place.
Anonymous said...
What's worrisome is the idea that some churches are growing even as the old timers are leaving.
Another Anonymous said:
"Worrisome? That Christianity in the great old US of A."
Yet another Anonymous said:
"I don't find it worrisome that some ntcc churches or any church for that matter grow.
DNA said:
I find the prospect that the ntcc is growing to be worrisome also in the sense that more people will fall into their trap as their changes become more favorable to the church going masses. It's not a surprise and the other comments made good points also. Anytime an old timer leaves it's a good thing no matter how bad their lives have been messed up by the ntcc. Other churches grow as do other cults and most seem to be centered around the dollar. Speaking of Dollars, Creflow is a prime example. The dude worships money and there is no shortage of suckers in his church that are willing to empty their wallets. That's what it's all about in the ntcc.
Anonymous said...
It used to be a sin in my NTCC... To do just about everything that Grant has been able to do.
It used to be a sin in my NTCC... To dress like Tanya
It used to be a sin in my NTCC... To go to concerts, talkin' to you KEKEL
Anonymous said...
To watch devilvision
For women to go to college
DNA said:
The list gets longer every day and people don't care. They are just like the idol worshipers in the Old Testament. If it were about God, the changes would bother them. They are worshiping the ntcc leaders as if they were God. When a man tells you that children hinder the ministry and a whole bunch of followers go out and get vasectomies it is because they are brainwashed into doing things that rational people would never do in a million years. That's just one example. We were all brainwashed in our own ways. People look at how we lived our lives and it wasn't appealing in the least bit. But if you could get them under the spell of an ntcc preacher, they would also do the same things. We all bowed down to men and did what they wanted us to do, rather than questioning their motives and seeing if their doctrine was sound.
Everything revolved around working for our own salvation.
In the ntcc eyes we never could attained salvation because we were not doing exactly what they said to do.
How many times in the conferences we were ridiculed for not having people in church and over and over told that something was wrong with us that's why the churches didn't grow.
"Nothing is wrong with the program" they would they if it works for one it had to work for all!
They would bring examples like the time Dennis was the cream of the crop and he was brought up as being one who really loved souls. Gandy stood crying in front of the conference explaining and thanking rwd for sending him to work and help Dennis because he learned that Dennis was all about the love of souls!
Apparently rwd wanted gandy to learn what Dennis was doing " right" so that gandy would go out and grow his servicemens home because up to this point gandy had been a failure for not being able to have more people.
How many times we heard: if the church is not growing there's something wrong with the man behind the pulpit.
I mean, everything revolved around
" being saved"
Rw always talked about " why don't you get saved" when somebody would act or say something contrary to what ntcc said.
It's a sure thing to have people follow blindly when every minute of their lives you're bringing into question their salvation if they are not acquiescent to every whim of the leader!
I can't remember exactly when JR got his DD or Ph.D or whatever they called it. It was definitely before they started calling it a "seminary," because that didn't happen until after I split. I think the ceremony was in Washington. With regard to NTCG/NTCC, I believe they had to pick another name because when they were applying for the 501c3 status, it came to light that another cult was operating under that name. The MidWestern Bible Institute was the original name; I think they used it until the Carondelet dust-up when RW was implicated in adultery and started his own thing.
Had it not been for the adultery would he still be with the Church of God?
Vic said:
" I believe they had to pick another name because when they were applying for the 501c3 status, it came to light that another cult was operating under that name."
DNA said:
I heard that and often wondered the validity behind that answer. Is it possible that Davis could have lied about that because he was trying to hide something from his past? We'll probably never know. NTCG was their name since 1969 and then in 87 some other church has the same name and he wants to change it? You might be right Vic, that might be all there was to it, but in my mind and knowing how they have been operating, there remains that possibility that Davis was hiding or running from something in the past, and that's just my theory. It seems like when you think you've heard every dark secret, more impurity bubbles to the surface. They have been frauds all along and they still are. Nothing ever changes with them, it only seems to get worse as more truth finds it's way into the light.
Anonymous said:
"Had it not been for the adultery would he still be with the Church of God?"
DNA said:
There are people from back in those days who are rumored to know about Davis's adulterous affairs. The PCOG's might have been the trash can of the Pentecostals for allowing divorce but perhaps even Davis was too sleazy for them. Divorce is one thing, committing adultery on your second wife is another. It's pretty bad when you get kicked out of a trash can. But then again, that of course was not his excuse for leaving. I'm sure he also wanted not just a bigger piece of the pie, but his own pie. Davis would preach against independents but he was the biggest independent of them all.
Anonymous said:
"How many times we heard: if the church is not growing there's something wrong with the man behind the pulpit."
DNA said:
RWD would always talk about looking in the mirror if you wanted to find what was wrong with your church. It's amazing that those phrases didn't seem to apply to him. Davis was a very negative person in spite of all the inspirational speakers that he plagiarized. He loved to put other ministers in battles. They spent half their time trying to fight for their salvation and the other half trying to meet his approval. If you failed, you would get publicly humiliated and feel like a failure. If you succeeded, he would blast you for being lifted up in pride. Everything was heaven or hell, no room for grace, no room for mercy, no room for compassion towards others. If you didn't like it, Davis would tell you he could hear the footsteps of your replacement rapidly approaching. If you can't do it, God will raise someone else up. Thankfully God isn't like that and most people aren't either.
Here's the URL to copy and paste into your browser to see the Den of Thieves Playlist on YouTube:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL79X8kiHk3ZQW9-qLJAFVmsS40sgjRXxH
or you may click here.
Origins:
So they kick him out of Church of God, who then ends up following him and helping him build NTCC?
I can't imagine it being an easy process. He must have gotten a break somewhere? Is this where he sort of takes over Pop Gaylord's ministry?
RWD uses people. He's very good at assessing people and figuring out for what purpose he can use them. Not sure that he got a break anywhere. I imagine Davis split from the PCOG's just like Denis and Barnes later split from the ntcc. He probably took his congregation with him. Pop Gaylord was someone he used to get what he wanted. I'm sure Pop didn't really know what he was getting into with Davis, but once he jumped on board Pop got a package deal and all the dirty laundry that came along with it. There are good people and bad people in the ntcc. Pop was not afraid of Davis but he had too much invested in all of the churches to leave. He became part of the machine. By nature he was easy to get along with and many loved him. I don't have anything bad to say about him because he was never a tyrant toward me. I do believe that he was in error along with all of the ntcc leadership because the organization was not built on a foundation of honorable principles and ethics. RWD had a following of brainwashed suckers that could handle all the groundwork that went into starting an organization. He's never been one to do things that he could have someone else do for him. I'm not sure who was with him back in 69, but he had a following. Some of the really old timers in the ntcc have been their since 69 when it was started. Many of the children that were products of the day school were around a very long time. Carl Sensabaugh whose name was on many of the original documents was said to be like an adopted son to Davis. He left around 76 and became an independent starting his own outfit called "Carl Sensabaugh Evangelistic Church, inc." Davis used to preach against independents probably for this reason. At some point Sensabaugh became affiliated with the Assemblies of God and his son Tim Sensabaugh had a church in a city called Homosassa, Florida. They were handing out cards that said "Just L.U.S.T." on the front and "Come L.U.S.T with us" on the back, to high school kids. They had a website called "www.xratedyouth.com". Kids would think they were going to a Porn meeting and find out it was church. The Superintendent of the High School didn't agree with their approach and Carl Sensabaugh threatened to get the ACLU involved.
Don and Ange said,
"A year or two ago their was a Facebook page called New Testament Christian Semenary. Guess they didn't know the difference between a Semenary and a Seminary."
A Semenary? That's funny. What do they study there? Semen? That would be an accurate appellation for the NTCC!
It used to be a sin in My NTCC ... to CHEW GUM!
The ntcc reminds me of the elders of the Jews who didn't like what Stephen was saying about them and they brought him to the 'council', which was equivalent to the ntcc general board. Stephen went in front of that group of self righteous hypocrites and told them that they were stiff necked and uncircumcised in heart and mind, murderers and betrayers of Jesus. He said, "who have received the law by the disposition of angels and have not kept it." Acts 7:53, You can look it up while I'm writing this to you, I won't point my finger at you and jack you up for having the nerve to read your bible while I'm speaking to you. In fact, you should read your bible while they are speaking to you out of the sides of their mouths, because it is that very book that they twist and use to condemn you. I know Stephen took a pretty harsh tone with those board members or council members. They didn't like what he had to say to them at all. Those board members all cried out and stopped their ears. Are you following along, Acts 7:57? They all cast him out of the city and stoned him.
The ntcc board members are no different than the council that stoned Stephen. Davis was just like the high priest and Olson and Kekel were like the chief priests. They were too busy tearing the wrong people down for the purpose of drawing attention away from their own sins. The chief priests were supposed to be the Spiritual leaders of Israel, but they were too busy straining at gnats to be concerned with giving anyone spiritual help. Davis surrounded himself with a bunch of loyal yes men that would do anything at his command, and in trying to please him they became just as corrupt as RW himself. The ntcc board members were too busy emphasizing the letter of the law to help the ones who were hurting the most. In fact, Davis was so corrupt that he often betrayed confidence and data mined the the people for hurtful information that he could use against them often to cover up his own improprieties by discrediting those who drew attention to Davis's own hypocrisy. Kekel and Olson are the same way. They would rather destroy you than allow you to speak your mind. They just use their own perverted version of the truth to sever you from the flock. They are a lot like a bad batch of Chemotherapy and Radiation; they kill the good cells along with the bad cells while the cancer often continues to spread throughout the whole body. They know they are not right with God themselves, and those who are trying to have a relationship with Jesus, they prevent. Mat 23:13 "...ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in." Vs. 15 "...ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."
"I won't point my finger for reading your bible". It used to be a sin to look verses in your bible while somebody was preaching.
Now they have projectors so you can sing along if you don't know the words to " I'll fly away"
I got busted at my first and only conference for chewing gum. Didn't know it was wrong. I was waiting in line for about 45 minutes to get in the doors and get a good spot like it was the premier to Jurassic World and I saw someone from my church about 7 feet over. I pulled out some gum and threw the pack at him as he wanted a piece too.
Next thing you know I'm hearing about a cow chewing on its cud or some crazy thing like that.
Mike
I don't think I'll ever sing those hymns again. I think there were about 5 or 6 you could count on being sung at least 2 times per week. Then you'd look like an idiot when they wanted to sing a new song.
I can feel it in my home
I can feel it in the church
I can feel it in the street
I can feel it all over me...
HHEWWWAAAHHHHHH VOMIT
I really need to go to one of these churches and see what is going on there. I'm so curious to ask the local pastor about all the changes.
Like to hear his take on things.
unbelievable! they are going the way of all the other churches!
hey everybody... if you liked the movie courageous and fireproof they have another coming out next week called
war room
it looks pretty good.
ntcc hypocrites: remember to get permission if you can fo see it OR go see it and hope you arent caught
Anonymous said...
hey everybody... if you liked the movie courageous and fireproof they have another coming out next week called
war room
it looks pretty good.
DNA said:
We'll have to check it out. We watched a movie today that came out recently on Netflix called "Do You Believe". Really good movie without all the cult indoctrination. Christianity and the Bible are awesome if you strip away all the ntcc false doctrine and don't place ultimatums on yourself that aren't there to begin with. Fear and condemnation can take you down a very dark road.
Yep, we've all heard that famous ntcc joke: What's the difference between a person chewing gum and a cow chewing it's cud? The intelligent look on the cow's face. If I had a dollar for every time that joke was told, I'd be able to by a few weeks worth of groceries on building crew members food budget. Okay, maybe a couple months worth....
They did sing the same old songs over and over again. Why do you even need songbooks, if you are going to sing I'll Fly Away, Victory in Jesus, He set Me Free and Every body will be happy over there, hundreds of times over and over again. But now they are singing a new tune. If you want to see something really funny click or enter into your browser ntcc's Humphreys Facebook page and scroll down to the June 1st entry. They published a Youtube Video of a Ray Boltz with long hair singing Christian Contemporary Music. That would be enough to run a person off twenty years ago.
Correction. We got the movie "Do You Believe" at redbox, not on Netflix. I get them mixed up because they are both red like the devil. Can you see the horns sprouting up on all of those ntcc'rs that are renting movies from Redbox?
The ntcc is a joke. You have to be completely out of your mind to see the wholesale compromise that is taking place among these hypocrites. That's what they called it anyway. I guess we should be happy and jumping up and down with joy that the ntcc is 'allowing' people to have a little bit of freedom in their lives and forget about all the misery and suffering they caused. We wouldn't want to speak out too harshly about them, now would we.
They teach it's wrong for a married woman to hol a job but there are some preacher's wives that "descretely" hold jobs
It used to be a sin to look up verses in your bible while somebody was preaching.
Bryan Hill said: Yea, the above is a true statement. Another one of those exclusive NTCC sins. This one really erked me and I found the most offensive. Since when do you NOT bring a bible to church and use it? Since the self proclaimed gurus of NTCC said so? If you don't like it then there is the door? Ok, ba bye. I remember the reasoning behind this was becuase it was supposed to be disrespectful to the preacher who was preaching. Well, then you have to high of an opinion of yourself then. If your offended by a church member looking up a scripture while your preaching, you are in shallow waters my friend, shallow waters for sure.
I remember it being a sin to work over-time, listen to the radio preachers, have an opinion, disagree about the weather, have on the wrong kind of shoes, shirt, pants or haircut. like music Davis didn't approve of. One time I was playing kieth Green and he says to me "I don't like him", that it all he says was "I don't like him". I was getting ready to say "why not" but he pointed out a record that he did like so I put it on instead. And some of you NTCCites still think we just make this stuff up. Silly you.
"There are people from back in those days who are rumored to know about Davis's adulterous affairs."
I have an old preaching tape put out by Highway of Holiness out of Hamilton Ohio and preached by L.L. Collins called "when the sun goes down on the prophets". In it he refers to a contemporary who use to fellowship with them who ran off to do his own thing and ended up in adultery, he even mentioned that this person was in the St. Louis area and did not believe in independent churches but rather organization and control of God's people, yet himself would not be controlled. Les Rinehart drove to his church back in around 94 while en route to a conference and lost his ministers license for six months for doing it. He even went tot he Ozark Bible institute and spoke with sister Barnes, the wife of the missionary who was killed in a bus wreck. Les said that L.L. Collins told him a lot of negative things that I can't repeat because I am not clear on all the time lines. Les went there to find out what the deal was, and yes there is even more to this era of time that is quite revealing who the real Davis is.
fascinating Bryan.. Please share more
Bryan Hill said:
"I have an old preaching tape put out by Highway of Holiness out of Hamilton Ohio and preached by L.L. Collins called "when the sun goes down on the prophets".
DNA said:
If you can figure out a way to make a digital copy of the portion of that preaching tape that you are talking about and could email it to us, we will put it on our blog and do a blog post about it. That's a pretty strong connection, and having read all of Les R's Factnet posts and corresponding with him, it's pretty solid evidence.
A lot of what Brian has shared can be found on FACTnet by clicking here. Dorothy Barnes is still listed as a dorm Mother with the Ozark Bible Institute. If you hover over the word bio next to her picture it gives an account of the death of her husband C.L. Barnes which happened in 1970 according to what is written there.
Hey Don I do not have the means to dub to digits on that cassette I mentioned. I have all kinds of goodies in a trunk out in my garage, maybe one day I will dig thru again.
Someone just tried to post a comment anonymously asking Bryan Hill to send the tape to them. I didn't publish the comment and will not because for all we know it could be someone in the ntcc. You might be legit, but when you comment anonymously we have no way of knowing what your intentions really are. I would say that the tape belongs to Bryan and if he wants to send it to someone that's his prerogative. We asked for a copy but it's totally up to him if he wants to send it and whatever he chooses to do with it is up to him. If he holds onto it, that's great also. If Bryan does choose to send the tape to anyone, hopefully he'll make a copy of it first.
The tape is pretty damning to Davis and his widow Verna, because it basically exposes Davis for Adultery. Not that he hasn't already been exposed for it on this blog, but it shows the cover up involved and how Davis basically treated Les like Uriah the Hittite. Do we take pleasure in continually bringing up RWD's adultery? No, not at all. But we bring it up because the ntcc bases the majority of it's doctrine on Davis's false teachings. We bring it up because we want people to know who is behind the destruction of families in the ntcc. You might say, "Well, Davis is dead and the ntcc is changing". Not really if you look at it. A man was just deserted by his wife for the same type of man made holiness standards that Kekel is slowly trying to distance himself and the organization from. Is Kekel doing this all out of love? No, he has been exposed for being a fraud and he is losing the control that Davis had over the people. It's a slow fade. There is too much info on the internet for Kekel to deceive everybody. When you look at it rationally, the ntcc still has way too much control over peoples lives. If you don't believe me, try missing a church service and when you are asked why you were not in attendance, tell your pastor that you didn't feel like going to church. You will become pulpit fodder. If you don't pay your tithe, you will suffer the same fate. Jesus never taught this false doctrine, why should they?
There's some places where you can get something transferred to digital. Walgreens is one.
Or you can play the cassette and recorded on your phone. It may not be professional but it's worth a try.
Now a days all cell phones come with that feature "voice memos"
It seems that maybe he doesn't want to part from or share this piece of information.
I wonder if this preacher LLCollins who was a contemporary of rw is still living.
Just my two mites.
If you are in the ntcc and something about it doesn't seem right, don't ignore the warning signs. Nobody should live in fear or stay in a church just because they think that if they leave they will die and go to hell. Jesus never held a schedule of meetings requiring people to attend every meeting. If you miss a church service in the ntcc, they will get all up in your business and want to know why. Don't let them use Hebrews 10:25 as an excuse to manipulate and control your life. You are not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, because they are not Christians. They are cult members. There might be a few struggling to survive but it's like being stranded on an Island with natives that threaten to behead you if you don't serve them. Christianity is not supposed to keep you in any kind of bondage. Don't allow anyone to control your time and money, especially when they have absolutely no transparency. If you are going to a church and giving them a lot of money for what ever causes they claim to endorse, you have a right to know and they have an ethical obligation to share that information with you.
Beware of money grubbers that feed off of your gullibility. Do you think God wants you to buy them a mansion? Perhaps a new Cadillac every year? How about a Million dollar recreational vehicle? You aren't giving to God, you are giving to a huckster. You are giving your money to a professional religious con artist that has been brainwashed to collect your money and send it to the chief master hucksters in Graham, Washington. Why would God want you to struggle while they get rich? There is a circuit breaker that has tripped in your minds and unless you reset it there will be no power going to your brain. They tripped the breaker when they convinced you that you must obey their rules to be a Christian. I'm not throwing stones from a glass house because I was probably worse than many of you that are still in. I gave 13 years worth of tithe, double tithe, world missions pledges, Sunday evening budget offerings, Sunday morning and evening offerings, Tuesday bible study offerings, Wednesday night offerings, escrow offerings, wear and tear on 2 Volkswagen Vans, An Oldsmobile Delta 88, A Plymouth Duster, a Ford Escort, 3 Cadillacs, 2 Ford Rangers, A Regency 98, a Suzuki side kick, a Chevy Cavalier, a Plymouth Vista Station wagon, a Colony Park Station wagon and a GMC Safari Van and the gas to go in them. We would buy a junker and drive it into the ground and buy another one. I was as big a sucker as anyone in the ntcc. But thank God that He made a way out. Don't be like that Don. Reset the master switch and get some juice to your brain before it's too late.
Speaking of sins in the NTCC, when you mentioned your different type of vehicles. I was told that to have a ford bronco was not becoming of a minister, in fact, I was told by RW that I could get one but the moment I started pastoring again I would have to get rid of it due to it not being becoming of a minister. huh? Where does that come from. Maybe that was something he p icked up back in the early 70's or 60's. But yea, almost a sin as well as my job I had which was hand building specialized pool tables at A.E. Schmidt Billiard Company in St Louis. He said "A preacher making pool tables"? I said "well yea, what is wrong with that"? he just looked at me and said go ahead. What he did not know was that shortly after starting there and witnessing to everyone, I ended up having small church services with a handful (about 12) people in the back room, even the owner got wind of it. I didn't ask permission and I didn't mention NTCC, I wanted it to be about Jesus only, and we had a great time with many inquiring souls about salvation. So yea, tell jesus he can't eat and drink with sinners before you tell me I cant make pool tables. Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids.
Bryan Hill said:
"I was told that to have a ford bronco was not becoming of a minister, in fact, I was told by RW that I could get one but the moment I started pastoring again I would have to get rid of it due to it not being becoming of a minister."
DNA said:
Thou shalt no drive a ford bronco, because it is unbecoming of a minister. Thou shalt strive to drive a new Cadillac every year and have thine congregation buy thou a diamond pinky ring. That is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard Davis say. He just doesn't want anyone to enjoy their Salvation. It probably didn't have anything to do with Ford Broncos either. He always found it necessary to dump on people and the ntcc wonders why hundreds of people have blogged about them as if they are being persecuted. If they are being persecuted it's for their stupidity, not their lack of Christianity. Making pool tables is wrong? I guess he wanted you on the low paying insulation crew working like a slave for peanuts. I really wonder if Davis ever did an honest days work in his life. He was most likely in sales conning people out of their money. That's becoming of a minister, isn't it?
Mark Lamblin was unemployed for awhile and finally got a job at the Bevo Mill restaurant over on Gravois in St. Louis. Part of his duties involved stocking the bar. The legalistic atmosphere of NTCC made him feel guilty about that, so he asked RW. RW used this verse from Habakkuk on him (as if it applied at all!):
"Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness!"
So Mark quit and went deeper into debt. Meanwhile, RW continued practicing the very things he preached against, and there was no one around to make him stop.
Anonymous said...
There's some places where you can get something transferred to digital. Walgreens is one.
Or you can play the cassette and recorded on your phone.
DNA said:
Most smart phones work really good and capture a lot of audio. That's up to Bryan. There is no pressure from us. Most of us already know it's true. L.L. Collins is still alive and is the Pastor Emeritus of the Highway of Holiness Church and he knew Davis according to conversations that he had with a former Factnet blogger and Xntcc'r who had visited several people who knew Davis in the 60's and early 70's. Emeritus means that he was retired and allowed to keep his title of Pastor, sound familiar? The former ntcc'r, Les R., was basically ostracized for visiting another church, but really it was for talking with a preacher that had the dirt on Davis. Davis didn't have that great of a reputation among the people that Les R. talked with. Even Dorothy Barnes didn't want to come to St. Louis to visit Davis on his dime.
Anyway, Brian is not trying to hide anything nor is he posting anonymously. The tape he has belongs to him and it's his to do with whatever he wants. I understand why others would want to hear it. But there are already many witnesses that have come forward with allegations of adultery on Davis and those who have been victims of him also. If people don't believe them, I'm pretty sure that they are not going to believe a tape.
Vic said:
"his duties involved stocking the bar."
DNA said:
This shows you how much of a hypocrite Davis is. Jesus turned water into wine and there is absolutely no scriptural evidence that the wine was not fermented. I personally don't drink beer or booze, but I don't go around preaching to people who do. Neither did Jesus. Jesus said not to let your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting and drunkenness. Does that if someone has a drink they are going to split hell wide open? Not unless you twist that scripture. What about Davis and his Nyquil problem? That's what hypocrites do. They project all of their own sins onto someone else. Delivering to or stocking a bar or store with beer is not going to make a difference. They are going to get their beer and booze regardless of who sells, stocks or delivers it. That's just another control measure put in place by the master of manipulation.
Freebird,
If you are out there, I found one of your comments in our spam folder. Not sure why it went there. I thought it was a good comment and funny also, but when I tried to recover it, it disappeared. Sorry about that....
I have to admit I want to hear the tapes in the worst way... LOL...
Freebird said:
Holy Mackral Batman! Did I see shorts on kids? Did I see they were at a museum? Oh my stars!!! Mixed sex swimming! Fan me and pass me my mint julep, this is more than I can take!
DNA said:
Sorry it took so long to publish this. We were able to recover it from our email. Sometimes comment's end up in the spam folder unbeknownst to us. That's were this comment was.
You did see shorts on kids and you did see mixed sex swimming. They are getting more and more worldly every day. This stuff actually started happening before the death of Davis. He retired supposedly sometime around 2004 but retained his title. Kekel was given enough rope to hang himself and he did a pretty good job of it. Right now the ntcc is torn between two Lovers, and feeling like a fool, after all, loving both the world and holiness is breaking all the rules. They can't decide how fast they want to plunge into compromise. After all they were founded on outward holiness false doctrine. It seems their strategy is to just say nothing until the acting figure head of the ntcc wants his daughter to leave her husband, then the strict holiness standards are enforced. I wonder how long it's going to be before you see Regina sitting next to a swimming pool sipping cocktails. That was a very lowdown and dirty deed that Olson influenced his daughter to commit. But nobody seems very surprised because they have become used to this type of thing in the ntcc. It's business as usual. It's like those cybernetic organisms that were dubbed the "Borg" in Star Trek. You shoot them a couple times and the first 2 or 3 die but then the entire collective adapts to each change in modulation of energy from the phaser blast. People become immune to such things and nothing surprises them any more.
Ok, I just took a trip down memory lane and dug thru Ashmore, Blumenthal, Roxroy Reed, Tom Wright, Kekel and R W Davis tapes and low and behold I found "When the sun goes down on the prophets" by L. L. Collins. I will listen to it this week in my truck as I go back and forth to work and find the spot where he references someone who fits to a tee R W Davis. As far as sharing it with the anonymous specifically, I have reservations but I will find a way to get this to Don, just give me some time. If nothing else Don can verify it and we can do a transcript. Don what was your email again? 1gi2another@yahoo.com?
Hey Vic, I remember well Mark Lamblin, we worked together in St Louis at some glass making factory, he was a real good guy and great to be around and a hard worker. He use to paint while in Washington and taught for a short time until he got the boot.
Hey Vic you know who this is right? you came by a visited me in Lacy Washington about 8 years ago, we laughed our butts off as we reminecsed about old times, it was great!.
Davis turned water into nyquil!
I remember when I was a child living in St.Louis I was over at the Olson's house and I found their bottles of wine. I asked if I could have some not knowing what it was. Olson told me it was for the adults only. I guess he got concern about what I thought of him having wine. He explained that wine wasn't the same as alcohol it was just expensive so it was for only for adults. The was the first but not the last time I saw wine in his house. He wasn't the only one whose house I was in that I saw some form of alcohol as a child.
Do as I say not as I do.
Hugs,
Julie
Not a problem!
Bryan, no problem, when ever you get around to it that would be fine. You got our email address right but it's at gmail.com instead of yahoo.com.
Bryan, sure I know who you are; I never got to know you in the org but did learn a very useful and highly secret technique involving knives and a stove there in Lacey. I couldn't find your place and had to call from the neighbor's so you could come out and wave me over. If you're ever up north, look us up. We'll have another blast.
I liked Mark a lot. He played the bass when I was playing drums in church. He lived next door to me over on Robert Ave when I first moved into the dorm. One time he set his groceries down and went to unlock the door and someone made off with them. His ex-wife dumped me for him, but it didn't affect our friendship at all. I corresponded with him briefly some years ago; I think he's still in Ohio. Man, we had some good times in the cult in spite of the control freaks' efforts to keep us down.
Alcohol? In the big wigs homes? Say it isn't so. Alcohol was the sin of all sins when I was in the NTCC.
Everyday I would get angrier and angrier... It's almost to the point of amusement now. I just wish the poor preachers would wake up.
You've been had. Admit it. Move on. Enjoy whatever life you have left.
Julie said...
I remember when I was a child living in St.Louis I was over at the Olson's house and I found their bottles of wine.
Anonymous said...
Alcohol? In the big wigs homes? Say it isn't so. Alcohol was the sin of all sins when I was in the NTCC.
DNA said:
It doesn't surprise me one bit. People seem to think that Olson is the paragon of Christian Leadership. Olson says that games are not allowed in Servicemen's Homes and that if you take a paperclip home from the Army you are stealing that paperclip. But it's okay to cover up child molestation and tell the victims to find another church. People find it surprising that he had wine in his house? I wouldn't put anything past Olson or Kekel. Olson was the biggest enabler of Davis and spent half of his time trying to cover up Davis's sins. We've had several witnesses that have said they went to Olson and tried to get help and Olson would tell them, "I can not receive that from you" or "You need to find another church". The entire general board was selected not on their merits of service to the Lord, but on their loyalty to Davis. Gesangs X-wife went in front of the board with her child that Gesang had beaten and left bruises and welts all over. She took the childs pants down and showed the marks and bruises to the entire general board and what did she get for that. She was shunned and deserted by Gesang, while he was honored and extolled and given a new bride. Does it surprise anyone that these hypocrites might drink? If drinking was their worst sin, the ntcc would be a much better place. Who knows what do when they are driving their recreational vehicles around the country, completely unaccountable. Casinos perhaps? Kinson visited a whorehouse and got promoted. These people are the lowest of the low down scum of the earth because they use the banner of Christianity as camouflage to hide their darkest and most evil sins. They make the women dress like Quakers and treat them like slaves while the world thinks that they are extremely religious and would never hurt a fly. The ntcc is the closest you'll find to Muslim customs in the United States. You give the ntcc women vails and they are basically treated the same as muslim women. If a woman gets raped in the ntcc it is her fault. If a child gets molested in the ntcc it is the childs fault and people like Gesang are protected by a bunch of hypocrites sitting in a board meeting that consider themselves to be the last move of God on earth.
Wow! Wine in their houses maybe they take the verse about Paul telling timothy having some wine for his stomach sake.
Just when you think you've heard it all new stuff comes up.
I noticed the pics you have of the people in the ntcc and they look like they're maintaining their weight up there.
Anonymous said:
I noticed the pics you have of the people in the ntcc and they look like they're maintaining their weight up there.
DNA said:
Well, that's about the only thing that the ntcc encourages, is overeating. I got so fat in the Army that Davis asked me if I was on the Fat boy program. I actually came really close. I weighed more than the limit for my height and age so they had to tape me. I sucked in my gut as far as I could and by the time the calculations were through, I had 23.98% body fat. If I would have come in at 24%, it would have landed me in the fat boy program as Davis called it. He was a lot fatter than I was when he asked me that question. He would hold on to that pulpit for dear life when he was preaching too. He would rock back and forth and stomp back and forth and snort while speaking out of both sides of his mouth. Then he would make fun of the overweight ladies in the church. He would tell them to split up so that the pews wouldn't collapse in so many words. He did that at a conference one time when there were three overweight sisters sitting on the same pew. I don't remember his exact words but he had the entire congregation laughing at these three obese women. He would some of you look like you're pushing a cart. What do you think would happen if you told him that he was a fat hog? You'd be history. But gluttony was one of the few sins that you could get away with. You couldn't do anything else in a servicemen's home. I remember that you were supposed to eat some of everything that was cooked. The sisters would usually serve you up a gigantic portion. One time we had this nasty creamy spinach that I tried so hard to avoid eating, because I knew it would come back up. I thought I had got away with not taking a helping until the Medrano suggested that I should help myself to some spinach. It was an insult if you didn't take a reasonable portion. I can still remember it slithering down my throat like boiled ocra. I had to excuse myself from the table and barely made it to the bathroom where I heaved it up along with the Jalapeno Chicken. I didn't mind the creamy spinach when it was mixed in with the corn chips, chicken and peppers, but they made to much and served it as a slimy side dish. That was the last time I ever ate spinach in my life.
Olson said that he didn't recall Pop Gaylord ever playing any board games in Servicemen's homes and that board games had not been allowed in Servicemen's homes for 8 or 10 years. I took those notes in a conference and still have them. Those were the words. Now they are promoting football, Frisbee, Volleyball and barbecues at the Campground. Why don't they ever slack up on preaching tithe?
I wonder why they don't practice the same compromise with tithe as they do with outward holiness standards. They slowly are allowing more and more 'compromise' and 'worldliness' in the church, but not too much at a time. If God is slowly changing and adapting to the wants and desires of ntcc members, why don't they do the same thing with tithe? Can you see Olson saying, "Okay, It seemed good to God to collect only 9% tithe this year."? That would be great if they dropped one holiness standard every year and one percent tithe every year. They'd be broke and in their underwear in ten years. I
I remember the chicken jalapeño well. It was the ntcc woman's top recipe. This meant that you were really "in" if you knew how to make that recipe.
I remember rw at a conference berating the servicemens home wives for making good food. He even said that when he visited the servicemens homes he wouldn't eat there because he didn't want to eat slop.
A couple of beers might help some of these overwound preachers relax a bit. They're in sore need of some serenity. It's a totally frenetic lifestyle. We were the crackheads of coffee consumption. I bet I drank a couple of full pots a day for years. How else were we supposed to exert the herculean efforts required to bear the NTCC overhead? We jumped through the most ridiculous hoops constantly.
One of the best things about leaving was how much easier and less complicated life immediately became. The monopolization of members' time and energy is a typical cult indicator, designed to preclude opportunity for contemplation and self examination. We were conditioned for obedience and absolute loyalty. Any doubts were by definition of Satanic origin. Peer pressure and public humiliation were employed to reinforce a powerful collective mentality. Our sources of information were severely restricted, and the information we were fed was often false and always calculated to produce a desired effect. RW was crude, but he was also shrewd, and a bunch of callow GIs presented little challenge to his skill of deceit. He used us, while pretending to care, but it was all about him the whole time.
Vic, I wish I had your mastery of the English language. Your ability to place each word as silver apples in a gold dish are indeed amazing and mesmerizing. Seriously, was that developed or straight up natural? By the way I haven't stopped eating those Black and Green dark chocolate bars, you were right, the best on the market. I think you are right, all along it was about RW and how duped we were! I see very little of Jesus and His temperment now that I look back, which also explains the swelling uneasyness I was dealing with back in the day.
Vic said:
"Any doubts were by definition of Satanic origin."
DNA said:
That's true. Any time you wanted to do something that was important to you but not necessary in their eyes, they would use the devil to label your intentions. We were too involved in their program to do things without running them by the dictators of our religion and idol worship of ntcc cult leaders. The fact that we felt obligated to ask a person for permission rather than God was also a good indicator that we were in a cult.
Cult member: "Pastor, I've been thinking about going home and visiting my family for Christmas. Is that okay with you"?
Cult leader: "Well, brother, I'm not going to tell you what to do, but the devil will use anyone in your past to destroy you. Pray about it brother because a lot of people that go home on leave and lose their salvation and never come back. The devil will use your family to persuade you to go back into sin."
Translation- Church member: "Pastor, I'm afraid to make decisions on my own because I've seen other people get jacked up for it. Can I go home on leave?"
Translation- Cult leader: "If you go, you are rejecting God and his chosen prophet's advise. We are tired of losing tithe dollars every time a church member decides to go home on leave. Your family is of the devil because they don't attend an ntcc church and they will influence your thinking to make you leave our controlling, money making cult. You might result in you really finding God in a healthy environment and cause you to realize that we are just a bunch of con-artists. But you can do what you want to, because you are going to do it anyway."
The objective of the cult leader is to place a cloud of guilt and doubt over your head causing you to doubt yourself rather than them. This kind of persuasion also is used to convince the cult member that whatever results come about from their ill advised decision to go against the cult leader's advise is a result of their own choice and goes against all of their warnings. By invoking the devil, they heap condemnation on top of guilt and doubt so that the cult member would feel guilty and blame themselves. The cult leaders also use the devil as an attempt to isolate their false doctrines from any other belief that a normally active brain could conceive. In other words they use mind tricks to manipulate unstable souls into thinking that their cult is the only authority on God. The World is against them and anyone who doesn't agree with them are of the devil.
They all had TVs in their recreational vehicles too. I saw them in all but Pop Gaylord's. I asked Olson about his one time. He told he needed it to help at night deal with stress people gave him while traveling. All I heard is what hurts you helps me. I always wondered why things were different for them.
Tanya has been going Disney World and other such places since she was a little girl. Them going to music concerts and other forms of entertainment that has been going on for decades. Christian music wasn't always played in their houses either. Once again all I heard is what hurts you helps me. Cutting hair and make up was okay for them just not us.
They have to let the compromise come in too many people I learning their secrets.
Hugs,
Julie
Thanks, Bryan. It is natural, but has also been developed some--I was trained and employed as a journalist in the Army, working on post newspapers. I'd forgotten that I turned you on to Green and Black--I'm still eating them and they're still awesome.
Here's what fries my gizzard, the way NTCC treats the children. I will use Julie as an example since she is so outspoken and articulate with what she has been through and observed.
In the leadership minds she was physically disabled, physically and sexually abused (Yes, I guarantee all those predators at the top knew she was.) thus she must be feeble minded. Oh how wrong the were!!!
Julie got so much of the inside scoop on NTCC because of her father's location on the food chain and because her life of abuse and disability made her the perfect "victim" for their perverted ways. She came pre groomed courtesy of her disgusting father and mother.
In their minds those devils could do and say whatever they wanted in front of her because they thought she was mentally disabled. That was their folly.
Julie I just shake my head in disbelief when you are able to recall the hypocrisy of NTCC. I wish I would have known you when I was in. I would have taken you under my wing in an attempt to protect you. I would have also assured that you received my phone number and address upon my exit.
Keep on soaring the skies Julie!
Freebird
The more I read and look back at all the events that transpired I sit in disbelief at my ignorance but so much make sense to me now. I thought this man (davis) to be a modern Moses and even told people that.
The preacher worship seemed to be at the center of control. You had to have the upmost esteem for these guys like they were the only apostles to be walking the earth.
My problem now is I look out and see all pastors through my rose colored glasses and view the vast majority as frauds. Even if they are good guys they are making a killing for a minimum amount of services.
Mike
You can't take to much to heart. While it sucks that you've been had you do have to move on for yourself. What Don is doing is what most rape victims wont do and that's expose and testify against their abuser. In turn we all are able to vent as well. But at the end of the day we have to enjoy our lives and our families or we'll be stuck in the past. I can see many on this blog aren't, in fact most I'd say have moved on. It's sort of a warning system at this point. Mike, you're right, preacher worship was what was at the heart of ntcc doctrine when I was in. I was told how they were so humble and holy but watching them you couldn't escape the elitism of it all. Good day.
Well then lets look at the cold hard truth. Jack Hyles, Jimmy Swaggart, A. A. Allen, and you know what, there are way to many to list, but a myriad of what many considered great men of God have fallen, failed, deceived, sinned, cheated, made mistakes or what ever you want to call it. Oh I bet this would include you and I also. So does that mean we are all doomed for hell. It seems that what we do at times is point to the next person and finding reasons why they are evil, sinners, adulterers, liars etc... This reality of utter failure has been going on for centuries and millennium. Remember, Adam , David, Lot, drunk noah, lieing Abraham? Denying Peter etc... it goes on and on. Could it be that we are all in this sinful world and life together falling short of the Glory of God? wasn't it the sinner that said "I am glad I am not like that man". I propose we all stink in the nostrils of God, fail and disappoint God and all have some degree of self righteousness. Even when it comes to the present shortcomings and stench of NTCC. We were them a decade or two ago. When discouraged remove your eyes off men and on to Jesus. From me to you my precious exers.
Mike said:
"My problem now is I look out and see all pastors through my rose colored glasses and view the vast majority as frauds. Even if they are good guys they are making a killing for a minimum amount of services."
DNA said:
You are right. If it quacks like a duck, it's a duck. If it gets rich like a hypocrite, it's a hypocrite. If it requires you to live one way, While it doesn't, it's a double standard hypocrite. I'm sure there are a few good and healthy churches out there. There aren't any perfect ones though. We were expected to be perfect and that's never worked. We have been subjected to the radical end of the spectrum so it's not so easy to find a church without finding fault with the preacher and his doctrine. Some people are able to just find a church and go regardless of what is being taught. Others have trust issues. I personally believe that there should be more emphasis placed on avoiding false doctrines than joining a group just to meet the Hebrews 10:25 requirement of not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together. First of all you would have to find a group that is not in it for the money and is not hung up on twisted teachings. You can join yourself to ten thousand different churches that preach 10 thousand different doctrines but how are you meeting the requirements of Hebrews 10:25 if they are all preaching false doctrines?
Churches do more harm than good now days. Preachers don't really care about people or do anything to help the lost. It's all about getting on board with their program and what you can do for them. The ntcc is a perfect model for that. They don't care about anyone. They don't have anything Christ-like to offer the world. They aren't looking to help people. You aren't even welcome in their fancy churches unless you pay tithe. They don't care if you are saved or if you are a child molester. As long as you pay tithe, you are welcome.
Anonymous said:
"But at the end of the day we have to enjoy our lives and our families or we'll be stuck in the past."
DNA said:
You are right about that. You got to get out and enjoy your life a little bit. Spend time with the ones you love. Blogging has been a source of healing for me and it's also something that we are passionate about. But it's not the most important thing in life. It's reassuring to know that there are many others who go through the same things. In the aftermath of a cult experience, there are a lot of issues that need to be sorted through. You can't sort through any of it if you don't learn to love yourself and enjoy your freedom. I know that the ntcc will say that is selfish, but we spent a huge chunk of our lives blaming ourselves and bearing burdens that were unnecessary in the ntcc. God doesn't want you walking around in condemnation because some preacher has jacked you up for not giving as much as anyone else, or because you talked to a sister or brother that they feel you shouldn't have talked to, or for reading your bible in church instead of listening to someone screaming at you for not achieving their standards. The ntcc is like a bad dream, except it happens in real life and the only break you get from it is when you sleep.
Julie said:
"They all had TVs in their recreational vehicles too. I saw them in all but Pop Gaylord's. I asked Olson about his one time. He told he needed it to help at night deal with stress people gave him while traveling. All I heard is what hurts you helps me. I always wondered why things were different for them."
DNA said:
That is also what Bro. Ken shared. He caught Davis with a TV in his house and Davis said he needed to keep up with what was going on in the world, while he thought everyone else needed to be busy soul winning and praying. Davis had no conscience and neither does Kekel or Olson. They don't care how miserable anyone else's life is, as long as they are raking in the bucks. When they come in to your town riding their high horses and looking down their noses at you, don't be afraid of them because they aren't any better than you. They might jack you up for this or that, but they aren't doing anything but giving God a bad name.
hey don,
are you still in WA ? I'm in pierce county...
anyways...
if that person sends you the cassette tapes, i remember using a program called "spin it again" that works very well to convert some tapes I had to mp3's.
You could do it without purchasing a program but you might have to fiddle with it a bit to get the audio right. i used spin it again and it does the work for you.
It's sad really, we thought that we were decreed from God to sacrifice. To be humiliated.
We gave our entire being, life, money, resources, health, family, to a cause that we thought was from God.
It was ntcc or hell plainly put.
How can you still say that those that come to the blogs are just as guilty.
Can't understand.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
hey don,
are you still in WA ? I'm in pierce county...
anyways...
if that person sends you the cassette tapes, i remember using a program called "spin it again" that works very well to convert some tapes I had to mp3's.
DNA said:
No, never have lived in Pierce County, nor have I attended the brain washing academy in Graham. Thanks for the info on tapes. Usually a good smart phone will give you just as good quality as any recording devices that I know of. Perhaps the programs you mention might enhance the quality and make it sound better than the tape. We'll look into that.
Anonymous said...
It's sad really, we thought that we were decreed from God to sacrifice. To be humiliated.
We gave our entire being, life, money, resources, health, family, to a cause that we thought was from God.
It was ntcc or hell plainly put.
How can you still say that those that come to the blogs are just as guilty.
Can't understand.
DNA said:
I think some people just don't get it, and they don't want to either. We are guilty of being deceived by a bunch of con artists that we thought were God's chosen. To compare us with them is ignorant. Many people think that we are supposed to be quiet and not say anything. To me they still are bound by ntcc doctrine and they think the way that the ntcc wants people to think. If we say anything against them than we are just like them. They don't apply that logic to Jesus, who not only voiced his opinion against the religious hypocrites, but he physically drove them out of the temple. That is why the ntcc is so successful in silencing people. They make others think that if they leave the ntcc that they should always respect them and never speak their mind. It works only because people allow it to.
The ntcc leaders are just as arrogant. They think that we are still under their thumb and we don't have a right to warn people about how dangerous they are. It's naive and gullible to believe that. Moving on is one thing and I get why people don't want to blog. They want to forget about the ntcc and live their lives. But when they make it a point to jack us up for not getting on with our lives then it could be said that they are hypocrites just like the ntcc. They are telling us to get over it, while they are not over it. We'll get over it when they get over it. When the ntcc stops making money off of people and using them like a menstrual cloth then we'll have nothing to blog about. I don't see them treating people any better than they ever have. Look at Danny Brill. They played him like a fiddle and now they are done with him. Do you think that Olson will ever try to reconcile with Danny? Don't hold your breath on that one. But we are just as bad as they are, because we expose them and use their own actions to show how heartless and diabolical they are.
What's sad is Davis got away with it in this life.
Who is still getting away with it? Kekel, Johnson, Olson, Di Francesco, the faculty, their wives, the overseers.
I found a message (not sure if it was factnet or here) that someone would give 10K for the arrest and conviction of any one of these people. I wonder if that still stands.
They forgot we were close to this http://www.amishdeception.com/autobiography.html this is where hopcc is going.
I read that years ago...sounded like RW's wet dream.
cherrie said...
They forgot we were close to this click here this is where hopcc is going.
DNA said:
If you want to understand where Davis and Denis got a lot of their teachings, this is a good read. Due to copy write infringement we can't copy or paste any of the material, but we will give you the link and you can check it out if you wish. The Swartzentruber Amish are a very strict sect of the Amish that broke off from the Amish church back in 1913 because they felt that the Amish were becoming too modern. There are about 12 or 13 different sects of Amish and the Swartzentrubers are the most legalistic of the whole bunch. Everything they do is governed by the Ordnung which is basically a list of rules that they live by which are not in the bible, or are supported by scriptures that are twisted severely. The women have to wear dark colors and sew their clothes with seams that are no wider than 5/8ths of an inch wide and they have a whole code of dimensions that govern everything from their clothing to the axles on their buggies. Violating any of these ordinances will get you shunned. You can't argue with the Bishop because they consider themselves to be special and called by God and their authority is not to be challenged, therefore, they will find you guilty. If you don't argue they will find you guilty. Women wear no bras and are not allowed to shave or cut any hair on their body to include armpits or legs. Men are not allowed to wear underwear or deodorant of any kind. The only purpose for sex is for multiplying and no birth control is allowed. Women are to clean house and serve the man. Members can not take other members to a court of law for any reason. It's okay if the church takes an outsider to court for raping one of their women but there was one instance where a man raped his three grand daughters and was not prosecuted because of their strict religious rules. They hide behind the freedom of religion act. When someone rapes a woman or molests/rapes a family member they are given a slap on the wrist like Ralph St. Clair or Michael Fontenot. They can smoke tobacco out of a regular pipe, smoke cigars the size of swisher sweets and chew tobacco like Redman or the kind Baseball players usually chew but cannot snort or chew snuff or Copenhagen type dip, nor can they smoke cigarettes. The women can not smoke or chew anything.
This is basically the same culture that exists in the ntcc and hop churches to a different degree. People are manipulated and given a strict set of rules to follow. It's okay to molest children but if you visit another church or withhold your tithe you are an outcast. That's the whole purpose of brainwashing people and making them follow strict rules. When people think it's a sin to report abuse crimes to the authorities so they report the hideous crimes of the clergy to the clergy. The same model is still being used in cults everywhere and people are afraid to call them out on it. "Let's just talk about tithe and women working, but lets not mention sexual abuse, rape or child molesting." Sorry to break the rules but we are not here to protect offenders or hide this trash. It happened and everyone knows it. Nobody denies any of it. Innocent people do not remain silent if they have nothing to hide.
I am still researching tapes. The one I mentioned was completely about those of whom LL Collins knew, who in a nutshell, were doing their own thing for questionable reasons and mentions those who he knew who have made themselves exclusive with elitist attitudes. This is not the tape that has the info I was looking for, though very close. I dug out all my LL Collins tapes and think that it may be on this one entitled "How did they get there" or another one "Holiness Cannabolism", or this other one called "More than one way to be disqualified" I have 5 more after that, it is on one of them. It has been 20 years since I have re-visited this so wish me luck and this week traveling back and forth to work I will be having camp meeting in my truck. LOL
To give you some insight, RW use to go to camp meetings at what I think was called Sun camp grounds with the independent Holiness movement of which LL is a part of. It was there that people got to know him. One of the tapes I have mentions how he would bring his students to preach the camp meetings and that at some point RW would separate himself due to elitist attitudes that were self appointed. I'm sure other old timers can add to this info.
Thanks Bryan. I hate to see you torture yourself like that by listening to all those tapes. I appreciate you digging up all those tapes. Take your time, there's no rush. When ever you get around to it would be fine. LL Collins definitely sounds like he came out of the same ilk as Davis. I stumbled across a Factnet post where Kekel was jacking Les R. up for visiting a church in Illinois. It was pretty condescending. Very interesting how Kekel would condemn people for blogging about what they went through in the ntcc and he would compare them to Pharisees. There is a whole treasure trove of Double Standard Kekelisms that can be found on Factnet. He would come on Factnet with a holier than thou attitude and condemn people, and then get behind the pulpit and do the same thing to tithe paying, soul winning, church members. It's sad but we used to pay to be abused. Then he goes back on the internet where he no longer has control over people and warns them of impending judgement. It's a vicious cycle.
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