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| Fear and Unbelief are Projected in the ntcc Causing Good People to Live on the Edge, Doubting their own Faith in God |
People who come on the blogs and share their past often lend credibility to their accounts of abuse by sharing their name and giving details. Every credible testimony that we have received has been accompanied by the names of actual people and families who have been mistreated and often kicked to the curb by those who profess to be chosen by God and called to spiritually lead men and women.
Kekel used to attempt to defend the indefensible; but he got his butt handed to him on Factnet over and over again. He no longer even tries to defend what he does. Why is that? Kekel is scared. Kekel does not believe the bible. He is fearful and unbelieving and has been called out too many times. He has no answer because there is no answer. There are many brow beating, stomping, screaming phony preachers who make a living off of causing others to fear and doubt their own faith. They seem to project their own doubt and unbelief on others.
What are people scared of? The ntcc hucksters should be scared, not us. They profess to be chosen by God and they do everything in their power to destroy men and women and their families, which is contrary to God's word, which they claim to believe. If they believed God's word they would not preach tithe or hell doctrine that does not exist in the bible. They have been asked on Chief's blog, our blog and GS/DS blog several times to defend their false tithe doctrine and they haven't; because they can't. If they believed the word of God they would not encourage divorce. If the Tieman's believed in God they would not have orchestrated the divorce of David Tieman Junior and his third re-marriage in rapid succession, before the ink dried on the divorce paperwork! They would not have encouraged Regina Olson Brill to leave her husband for something as stupid as him not wearing a shirt in a swimming pool. What a bunch of God haters and hypocrites to destroy relationships over such idiotic circumstances. They don't believe the bible. If they believed God's word they would not have caused scores of preachers to get vasectomies by jacking up their wives for 'hindering the work of the Lord' by getting pregnant. These people are not of God. They should be afraid, not us.
Many who sympathize with the ntcc are scared also. They are afraid to say who they are. That is why the ntcc continues to operate unchecked. People are afraid of them. For everyone that has outed the ntcc, there are many who remain silent. We haven't remained silent, because unlike the ntcc, we actually believe the bible. We don't believe that God's people should be used to make merchandise of or to be abused in any way. That's just common decency. Treat people right. Those are the basics of Christianity.
There is no need to feel guilty or down-trodden. I know there are good people in the ntcc, but they are being used just like we were. As long as the cult leaders in the ntcc continue to reject the truth and teach lies, they will be blind leaders of the blind and their tires will be spinning while they go nowhere.
61 comments:
spiritual manipulation can be so destructive.
Somebody posted something about how that it was rw's idea for his grandson grant to go to college and yet when the ministers would be around he emphatically deny that he had anything to do with what grant was doing.
He would even throw him under the bus by saying that grant needed to get saved.
I'm sure he wanted to save face with the ministers because their sons and daughters lost out of those opportunities that grant was brought up with. The joke was on all of us.
The joke was on all of us, that's for sure. We had know idea of the scam that was being pulled on us. These guys are professional con artists. They are very good at what they do and that is why they are rich. Grant is a symbol of what they are all about. Kekel broke all the rules with Grant. People like the Blumenthals had forfeited their ability to have children by getting snipped and then had to watch Granto being raised differently than all the other children who were deprived of a normal childhood. My guess is that as soon as Grant gets his expensive education, he will be the ntcc's prodigal son. He also will end up Lording over people in the ntcc. He will be fast tracked just like Kekel was when he married into his fortune. The Kekels are a privileged class. They will never get their hands dirty or have to do the work that we all had to do.
I remember asking my pastor why it was okay for keks wife to work outside the home. he heemm and haw'd. basically his excuse was, "you aren't her".
Why can't ntcc preachers let people live in peace? It's not enough to get rich off of their tithes, but they do everything they can to make people miserable. They always seem to want to Lord over folks and enforce rules that have little to do with Christianity. Women can't work? Part of their scam is to take away any power or individuality that a woman has. If you think about it, everything they do is to profit them financially. So why not let women work and pay tithe? After giving this some thought, it makes sense to strip them of their rights and make them completely dependent on their husbands and helpless to exist on their own. If all ntcc women were to get jobs they would have to coexist with normal women on the work force. If you think about it, women in the ntcc wouldn't be able to wait on their husbands hand and foot because they would be exhausted and beat down. They would be ridiculed for dressing funny at work then have to come home and subject themselves to their husbands who the ntcc has taught that they are entitled to be waited on hand and foot. You think the divorce rate in the ntcc is high now, give the women full time jobs and see how that works. There are too many rules and parameters for the average ntcc woman to cope with in addition to being a slave to their husbands and working 40 hours a week.
It makes sense that the ntcc only places that burden on a select few such as missionary works overseas where the preachers and their wives are stuck in a foreign country and pouring every dime they make into those works. Of course, you can't really count Tanya's teaching position as an actual job, even though it contradicts Davis's "women can't have jobs" doctrine. She has slaves that wait on her and clean her house so usurping authority at the ntcc brainwashing academy doesn't keep her from her home design endeavors but it does seem to violate the rules when it comes to Davis's "women in complete subjection to men" doctrine. Of course, God has changed His mind on many other rules since Davis died. Davis style "holiness or hell" doctrine has been diluted with Kekel's new compromise version thanks to Grant and his lasciviousness. Yes, the die has been cast in the ntcc. They are really moving on from all of Davis's rules by modernizing their religion. The new Gawd approved standards can be seen all over social media which used to be a sin, until God changed his mind. Volleyball, frisbee, football and Barbecue at the camp ground used to be preached against by Davis but now have replaced the forced prayer meetings, bible reading and fellowship. You would think that they would be enjoying their salvation with all of these new freedoms but it sounds like they are still just as miserable as they always have been.
I don't know much about this church but they seem to still be controlling even in those changes. Take the fourth of instance. I have family that is in NTCC. I wanted them to come see us and even willing to pay for the trip. They would have had to leave yesterday and not come back until Wednesday. Their pastor said the church is celebrating the fourth together so there is no need to go see your family to do that. Plus if you miss church you could cause new people that haven't excepted Jesus yet or new Christians to fall out of church and go to hell. I do have a question. Do these people believe in a works salvation because I have never heard a church tell someone this?
Jenny, the type of pressure your describing is common from my personal experience with NTCC. They believe they will lose their grip on members if they interact with family too much. They also are very aggressive about missing church. Though they dont teach a works based salvation, it is what they practice.
I encourage you to continue to love and reach out to your family like you have done. 99% of all members eventually leave this church. Your family will need people like you in their life when that happens.
Eric
Jenny, listen to Eric. That's exactly what will happen.
The best time to get them is during a PCS move if they're in the military. In fact, a normal PCS will involve upwards of 20 days off or more. If they come home for 10 they may take another 10 to find a house when they get to their duty assignment. Take advantage of the 10 days they come home then ask if you can help them with their home search. Spend time with them and love them. Keep them away from that crapfest of a cult.
Mike
I heard awhile back that Tanya used to do interior decorating and may have even had a business license or corporation for that. That account was called Kekel Enterprises but closed and was UBI 602174088 on the Department of Revenue site.
What I do know for a fact is that Kekel has a separate LLC in his name called Willard Properties, LLC - UBI # 602821129 and is still active.
You think that people would get a clue but they haven't figured out that not only is it about the tithes, offerings, escrow accounts and real estate income and equity, but also shell corporations too.
Another thing that is telling is that people may know that property is in NTCC name around the church and its used for rentals. Olson has his and a rental property that used to be Kekel's first home back in 1987. Then why does Kekels home at 22515 145th Ave E, Graham, WA 98338 have a Revocable Transfer on Death Deed unless that property actually belonged to him and was in his control? Grant is going to have the house in Phoenix and also Kekel's old house when they die. That home was bought and paid for with tithes and offerings, transferred into his name and is now used as his rental property.
Next you have the 39 acres that was put in his name, then taken out of it during the Denis split, that are going to be turned into 8 residential lots according to Instrument # 201602290699. So about 5 acres a lot? That's space wasted especially how tight they jam in neighborhoods. That's OK though because he'll get NTCC to clear the land, put in sewer and water, subdivide even more and have a whole community filled with naive NTCC people.
Considering Davis's justification of giving the land to his son in law. people are very naive to give in tithe and offerings then justify the misappropriations. i once heard a brother say i don't care if pastor took my money and spent it on bubble gum. according to this brother its okay theoretically if the minister spends church money on wine women and song, as long as church members tithe.
The comingling of personal and church financial activity is unethical and illegal. This is the reason that I finally made my break from the NTCC. Private enurement is illegal. To use church money to build a private real estate portfolio is sickening. This why they do not invest in the starting of new churches. Its not about souls, its about wealth. Normal churches invest their excess revenue back in the kingdom to reach people.
Eric
It doesn't amaze me the greed that these people have. If you look at the common minister that has been around for 20 plus years you find that they haven't amassed anything of value unless they've inherited or worked their butts off.
I see people that will have to work all their lives or live on the megearly pension that social security provides.
I recall these so called men and women of God trying to get extra money by finding a loop hole on something. I've heard how many used to get their prescription transferred to pharmacies just to get gift cards. Specially those who travelled around.
Just pathetic how greedy they would sound when they would tell each other about their exploits on how they got this or that for free.
"i once heard a brother say i don't care if pastor took my money and spent it on bubble gum."
The brainwashing definitely worked on him--that's the phrase RWD used to drive into our heads the concept that questioning the elites' use of money was out of bounds. He would tell us that if he spent all the tithe money on chewing gum, it was only between him and God and no one has any right to question it. "The tithe belongs to the pastor" was drilled into our heads, but it never really worked that way in practice for the lower echelons--there were all kinds of escrows and "pastor's tithe" schemes to make sure a good chunk of that money always flowed to Graham.
It's also amazing how cheap and stingy some of those people can be. They are so proud for what they found at some thrift store (or kook store like Davis would say), how they got over on a vendor at a flea market or used so many coupons they paid very little or got cash back. Maybe they had to correct somebody for an item being mislabeled or not priced correctly. Maybe they told off some waitress or corrected a store clerk or cashier. Beaming in their religious pride, they tell you because that other person was clearly in the wrong. Smug, sickeningly arrogant, religious hypocrites with such little consideration or care for people that they make the Pharisees look like Boy Scouts.
Check out how that 39 acres was divided up here
This shows the GIS information about the properties and how they were divided up by the county here
The assessed value on the land is now about $691,000
How much of that money will go to feed the poor? Provide medicine for the sick? Or provide for the widows in the church?
Zero.
So Kekel and company aren't the first scam artists in religion and they wont be the last. At least he has to dread knowing that those that are off the NTCC plantation are doing their level best to spread the word that he's a low life pervert hypocrite.
Toodles
Leaving NTCC was the scariest thing I have ever done. I was very blessed to have a supervisor that listened to me as I worked through the fact I was in a cult over many conversations. I used to read about the abundant life I even preached about it. I never really experienced it till I left. It was not instantaneous but my life is better being a free range Christian no doubt a out it. I have ONE Shepherd and that is Jesus Christian.
William Lewis
Im happy for you William. Its definitely a difficult decision. Only after the fact do you realize how right it is and wish you had done it a long time ago. Its kind of like salvation in that way. Id love to hear more of your story.
Eric
One of the cruelties of being in a cult like ntcc, is having to give up a small fortune, for a degree that has no value outside of ntcc, so one will have to remain inside of ntcc in hopes that they will recoup there small fortune or more. The problem is no matter how much they give, pray, or hope they will never reach or obtain the same financial status of the kekels, not as long they remain inside ntcc. There are those who decided to leave ntcc and who are now doing well for themselves and there families. Thanks be to God. However, inside of ntcc there will be a constant struggle to make ends meet. Everybody is not called to be a pulpit preacher, however ntcc encourage every one that they can to attend bible school rather you was called to preach or not. The logic that they would use is, bible school will be a blessing to you, or you could learn soooo much about God, you might even get a husband or wife etc. etc. We who are Christian know, that God is calling everyone to repent and belive on his son Jesus Christ, and to spread the word wherever and when ever we can. The brother that says he would not care if Davis spent his tithe money on bubble gum, probably don't have any bubble gum to chew because he's giving it all to Davis/Kekel. That's also a typical ntcc student mentality.
So If Olson is now the leader of NTCC apointed by Davis, where is Olson living? How about Kinson? What's Kinsons position now? Do they have mansions too or Kekel has more?
I have gone to another church since then, they all believe in a works salvation because after all, the Bible says, faith without works is dead. But, they will use instances against you in a fanatical way such as you described. These churches are nothing more than intimate megalomaniacal terrorist organizations ready to wreak havoc on families. I.e. they take everything that Jesus said, and twist it to get church members to hate one another. Then when you do show love to one another they begin to think you are gay, in turn tempting you to become a homophobe;it gets even better. They then will conclude to bash you for suspicion of being a homophobe. In long story short terms, cults like these are not for the faint of heart or weak minded. Choose to stick close to your family , your wife, husband or anyone in your life that you can, search the scriptures [Bible] for yourself; and lean unto Jesus and the Holy Ghost's understanding and thank Lord God the Father for everything in your life daily, including His Son Jesus Christ and his grace.
Please help...stepdaughter was drawn into ntcc via a classmate at dental hygiene school about 1.5 years ago. Past august 2015 the pastor flew a boy in to meet olyvia, they announced their engagement yesterday. His father is a pastor/churcheck planter. His wife was daughter of baptist pastor. They have renamed olyvia Livy. She is in as most new members hook line and sinker. We are meeting the boys parento tonight. My husband and I can't hide our disapproval but want to make sure no to alienate olyvia. I have had someone in my life part of ntcc before and it took10years for him to get out. I recognized her church immediately as a ntcc church when she called to share her new found "salvation"
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
If the parents are hardcore ntcc, they will be impossible to reason with. If Olivia is a minor, you don't have to give your consent and you probably shouldn't. The ntcc has a history of marrying off minors in states that have age of consent laws that allow them to get married before they are adults. We are assuming that Olivia is an adult. Unfortunately, about the only thing you can do is love her, but at the same time you can and should let her know how you feel. Parents are probably going to use scriptures to justify what they are doing. You are not going to win a scripture battle with them. Are you meeting with them in the presence of your step daughter? It's important that she is there, because anything you say will fall on the deaf ears of the parents and the conversation you have with them will not be shared in it's entirety with Olivia. If you can confront them in front of Olivia, it would be much more effective. You have a right to do so and if they don't agree, ask them what they are afraid of.
If Olivia is there for this meeting, let her know that you love her and that you will always be there for her. Share your concerns with her and the parents. Tell her and the boy's parents that you want to be part of her life. If she is not at the meeting, they will misrepresent you. They will tell her that you don't understand because you are sinners and you don't know God the way she does. You are in a very difficult situation, and you have to realize that there is probably not much you can do to stop this from happening. I'm really sorry to say this, but it's true. Loving her and letting her know that you are always there for her is very important. Be honest but don't burn any bridges.
Women in the ntcc have no rights. They are not allowed to have jobs so they have no skills and become completely reliable on their husbands and the leaders of this so called church. If she ever decides that she wants to leave, it's very hard to do so because she will have no money, no rights and in many cases no transportation and no one to turn to. If she has children by then, it will make things even harder. Many women in the ntcc feel trapped because of this. There is no way out for them. Share this concern with them in the presence of your daughter, but let her know that if this happens to her, you will be there for her. It happens a lot. If she goes to bible college she will end up being a complete slave to her husband and the church, but she will think that she is doing it all for the Lord. You have to be strong and it's so important that you emphasize your love for her. Let her know that you love her and you don't want to see her hurt. You have to be the adults in this conversation. Don't let them make you angry and lose your composure.
Giving up the small fortune as you say Maurice is kind of the beginning. Normally we are giving 400 bucks a month during our youngest years. Unfortunately that small fortune is a giant chunk of change in retirement if you'd have put it in a roth ira. In any case it's one of the many things I resent. Giving to con men and letting them live high just ticks me off.
Mike
Anonymous I agree with you that giving to con men and affording them to live high ticks me off as well and its just wrong. Students of ntcc bible college have no retirement at all even after spending years in ntcc, a lot of there members also have no retirement after spending years inside of ntcc, however the money that they contribute to ntcc is enormous, students that attend ntcc bible college, is being short changed, if they truly want to learn more they can read and study the bible for them self, which is what i which i had of known before I attended ntcc. There are far more avenues to learning Gods word than ntcc. Once ntcc capture your heart, soul, and spirit. It will take the Spirit of God to free you from there hold on your life.
I wish there was some sort of transparent way of finding out how long people are staying by the decade. In addition I'd like to know how long people are staying now that Davis has passed. What % of ministers under Davis have left now that they're under Kekel.
I'm interested to see the trend of the overall grip on the average person that joins then decides to leave. Has it increased in time? Decreased in time? It would help to know if this fight is leading to a conclusion of some sort.
"The Grip" is still substantial based on some of the posts worried about fellow loved ones. They still do the whole Scientology thing to family and friends. If they're labeled as someone who gets in the way of tithing and offerings then the talons come out.
I hate this group of thugs.
I hate this group of thugs, too. When I was in the process of leaving the Org, the board members wife was trying to manipulate me by bringing up how I used to feel about the Org. I stopped her in her tracks and plainly said, "I wish I had never gotten involved with this group. My life could have been so much better."
I still feel the same way. Glad to be free though :)
In regards to people leaving and the org shrinking; ntcc leadership likes to hide to behind the fact that Jesus was the "perfect pastor" and he even lost one of the 12.
But what they need to do is to get their facts straight... The amount of people who eventually leave ntcc after x number of years is a shameful comparison to the number Jesus lost when he lost Judas.
In reality, ntcc loses people at a rate of 11 to 1. I would guess that less than 10% of people who "get in" ntcc are still with the church 20 years later. It may even be at the 10 year mark. Not quite sure about that one.
Yes, this is what I'm curious about.
How many are in for 10 years that don't become a pastor?
How many are a pastor for longer than 5 years... I barely recognize any names from the 90's save a small few.
So if 100 come out how many make it to a second service? 10? Then how many stay long enough to become anything more than an occasional Sunday person? How many stay after the first time they get jacked up about tithe and offering? Dressing? Hair? Make up? Or whatever the holiness standard is now?
I'd love to know these types of stats (of course I know I wont be able to attain them) to see how effective their message is.
I know I was a soul winner (LOL) for maybe a year and didn't get one person in the program. Got some people to come out a few times but never hit the jackpot with a guy who got saved and went to bible college.
Thank god for that because I'd feel guilty.
When ibwas church planting I had an aggressive goal to knock on 100 doors a day for 100 days with a goal to get 100 in a service at the end. I think we had close to 100 visitors in that 100 day window but only 40 in the service at the end of the promotion. You could call those return visitors. So 10,000 invitations=100 vistors and less than half still interested after a few weeks. Its a major numbers game.
Eric
I remember RW stating that knocking on doors was a waste of time...right before he told us that the reason we weren't succeeding was that we weren't knocking on doors. That's the kind of schizoid advice he often dispensed (like telling us that "you can't preach out of a book," and ridiculing Tom Wright for hauling a book collection around the country, which was soon followed by the observation that preachers were ignorant because they never read books and that we should get some). He once lauded Ted Keyes for knocking on every single door in Hazard, Kentucky while he was there trying to pioneer, but Ted never got anywhere and ended up leaving in defeat.
It's not surprising that we poor saps who went out trying to "set the world on fire" abjectly failed. Gesang cited the fact that 800 visitors attended services in Graham over a one year period, of which three people (who also subsequently left) remained. They couldn't even do it themselves, and I wondered if they shortly afterward closed the services to the outside community because their own lack of success was such a bad example to those to whom they were selling the concept that building a successful church was guaranteed if we knotheads would only "do what we were taught in (B)ible (S)chool. Yeah, right. Seems like the only ones who did succeed are the ones who completely ignored their training and did their own thing.
Unknown said,
So 10,000 invitations=100 vistors and less than half still interested after a few weeks. Its a major numbers game.
DNA said,
After you got those forty in church, the trick was trying to keep them around. Poor devils had no idea what they were getting themselves into. You had to feed them, haul them around, burp them, change their diapers and tuck them in at night just to keep them around for a few weeks. They were "babes" in Christ, and we literally treated them as babes in real life. Over 99% of the people we brought into the cult didn't stand a chance. Then, when you finally got one to hang around, they ended up busted, disgusted and couldn't be trusted.
This is great advice even if it is hard to follow. From my personal experience I can say this is how to handle it. My mom fought me for a while about the church and I dug my heels in. Eventually she backed off and just loved me. When I left I was afraid she was going to rub my face in it. She did not. She loved me and was there for me in a very scary and tumoilous time. If she had been fighting me when I left it would have been more difficult to accept her help. It does get better. Be there for them.
William Lewis
My parents can see I'm broken when it comes to church/religion. They just continue to pray for me hoping I'll come back.
Mike
The LORD [is] nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit. - Psa 34:18 KJV
We'll tell you what, Mike. God would rather have a guy who is broken when it comes to religion, than have some stuck-up hypocrite who thinks his doo-doo don't stink. Hang in there, Bud. God's got ya covered.
By the way, Mike, don't feel alone. We're all broken before God. Here's the URL to a song called "Keep Making Me" by the Sidewalk Prophets that talks about it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VuBuxIKciqo
Mike you always have good comments and a logical view of the NTCC and decency in general. Much of the church world sucks today and NTCC leads the way. However, what sucks about them is where they depart from scripture and the heart of God. Just like us. Im at my worsed when Im least like Jesus. There are decent churches out there filled with people who are trying to do the right thing in a God honoring way. It does take a little effort to find them. The good news its easy to do research before visiting. A church by checking out their website. You tell a lot by a website and a little reading between the lines.
Eric
I guess the numbers model only works for a military post. Think about it. You can only knock on the same door maybe twice. What if you're in a town that completely cycles through every 36 months though. Brilliant!!!
Not only that but at the in-processing barracks you have a bunch of scared kids that would be happy to find friends.
As an Army Recruiter we were supposed to make 100 calls (totally worthless) a day. It was a numbers game too. The recruiters who were successful, rarely if ever did it.
I'm highly interested in the success/fail rate of this church. It's a model of what not to do unless you want minions.
The ntcc numbers game and soul snatching program is nothing more than a plot to keep people busy. It's a distraction so that folks won't have time to see what is really going on. To the ntcc leadership it is nothing more than a deviant way of reaching more tithe payers. To the ntcc members "soul winning" is their purpose in life, and it occupies so much of their time that they don't notice all of the abuse and scandalous actions of the elitist Pharisees that they follow.
It is just like a network marketing pyramid scheme. There are so very few that benefit. The new recruits are drawn in with free meals, activities and a promise of eternal life. They are convinced that theirs is the only program that will bring success and perfection into their lives. As with a pyramid scheme, new recruits are sheltered from the truth as long as possible. They don't come right out and tell you that you have to pay tithe to be a Christian and that you have to dress like Quakers, or you can't date without permission from your pastor. They slowly secrete their man made rules into your life after they get their hooks into you by convincing you that you are chosen by God from among millions and that you are a part of the only move of God on earth. That's how MLM (Multi Level Marketing) scams work. They get you out to meetings and events that focus on the promises of getting you rich, while they try to win you over into their program, and oh, by the way, the initial cost to join our MLM scam is that you have to buy a couple thousand dollars worth of our products and continue to purchase a hundred dollars worth of products per month to maintain your status as sucker of the year.
Sound familiar? They don't just come right out and tell you that your life is going to suck in the New Testament Christian Cult. They don't tell you up front what you are getting into. If they were honest, and told you that they were going to use you for your money and to manipulate others for profit, you would never join. They tell you they love you, they feed you, and coddle you. They warn you of hell while slowly introducing their man made rules into your life. They hide their double standards from you by warning you not to question the "man of Gawd" who becomes a god to you. Credit is given to God for everything good that happens to you. Everything bad is attributed to the devil or to your own weaknesses. You shut off your brain when it comes to things you don't understand. The secret things belong to the Lord, it's not your's to understand, just obey them that have the rule over you without questioning them. You'll understand it all by and by. Just keep being a brain dead sucker and paying your tithe and one day God will bless you just like he does them.
MLM is one way to look at it. It fits to a T as only the very few really benefit. Not only that they are idolized. I have to admit being idolized probably feels good. My wife hates me.
It is a shame how the gospel is misappropriated, misquoted, and misrepresented by the NTCC. Pastor Davis, with his background in sales and managing a two-bit chain store, manipulated the Gospel for his own gain, benefit, and reward. He used the idea of being a servant when it came to those who ministered under his command; but never seriously applied it to his-self or those he chose to "excuse"from the rules and extra-biblical commands he placed upon those under his influence.
Sad really, that so many young men and women who were sincerely looking for "the truth" ended up involved with this organization and where duped into attending New Testament Christian College/Seminary. Such a tragic waste of youth, time, energy, money.
RWD knew exactly what he was doing. He loved to manipulate people. He loved to put people under pressure just to see what would happen. He loved to set people up for failure so that he could use the experience to further his own agenda by utilizing the broken persons undying allegiance for RWD.
Yes, yes may be dead and in the grave, but his spirit lives on through MCK, JHO, and the rest of his chosen henchmen.
Watching and waiting for that blessed day when we will here about how the school and the church had to close...
It looks like the "Class of 16" consists of 12 women and only six men. No wonder the ntcc was able to send David Tieman Jr. a third ntcc bride from Graham before the ink dried on his last divorce. David Tieman Senior and his Adulterous wife needed to get back on the road in their million dollar rolling Cathedral to self wealth, so they could fulfill their office of Overseer by traipsing across the country on an all expense paid vacation to extort, oops, I mean exhort the brethren. Six more ministers cranked out of the ntcc seminary. Your tithe dollars are accomplishing great things for the kingdom of God.
Anonymous said:
"RWD knew exactly what he was doing. He loved to manipulate people. He loved to put people under pressure just to see what would happen. He loved to set people up for failure so that he could use the experience to further his own agenda by utilizing the broken persons undying allegiance for RWD."
DNA said:
That sums it up really good. It was never about souls or soul winning or even getting people to heaven. It really seemed like RWD was conducting spiritual experiments on people to see how much they could take before they self destructed. What a waste!
There was a time when they cranked out 50 suckers a year for their graduations. Now the most they can scrape together is 12? My how the mighty have fallen. Funny how I remember RWD declaring that if certain works started to go down, then the preacher would be replaced with someone who could do the job.
Well, Mickey, any plans on stepping down any time soon? Cause you certainly are letting everything go down, down, down. And it does not seem that you are capable of doing anything to improve the situation.
I think there were 90 graduates in my class. 2003.
What a joke.
Eric
They want to blame everything on the devil and the internet and Ron Denis and James Ashmore... that is why everyone has left, that is why we can't get any new people to stay.
They never want to look themselves in the mirror and say we are wrong, ntcc is the reason why people leave, sure they find out the truth about ntcc on the internet, but they leave because ntcc is a bad place to be a part of.
The internet has been a nightmare for the NuTTCases. It's now impossible for them to fly under the radar like they used to, or isolate people who leave from one another. Knowledge is power, and people are learning enough about this outfit to stay away. No wonder they tried to characterize it as the "sinnernet." They successfully banned TV for years (not sure if that's still the case), but have failed to prevent people from availing themselves of the mountain of negative information about them that's online. The problem is that their penchant for abusing people and running them off has resulted in a gigantic repository of exers, who far outnumber their present active members. Almost everyone eventually leaves, nearly all with justifiably strong and unfavorable attitudes about the org. Even though only a fraction generate public criticism, it's enough to enlighten the masses about what this gang's really about. Please consider adding your voice to the chorus if you haven't already--potential victims will appreciate it!
William Lewis, it was the same for me and my family; while in NTCC, my pastor convinced me to cut off my family, and they could see it was a cult, but I didn't listen.
Once I got out, they were very supportive
Diana Molino said - "William Lewis, it was the same for me and my family; while in NTCC, my pastor convinced me to cut off my family"
This has been a common practice from the beginning of NTCC, where the pastors will preach against visiting your family before or after a Conference, going there after leaving the military or ask your family for their opinion in anything spiritual. They want to be your decision maker and counselor in order to create a dependency relationship. Before you know it, you can't make simple decisions on your own without your pastor's input and ruling on matters. They try to convince you that your family is evil, will separate you from the will of God, and are being "used of the devil" all in attempt to exert their own influence over you. You will find yourself speaking harshly to them, parroting the words of your pastor and trying to convince them you are so different while feeling morally superior to your own family and friends. Cults control, cults confuse, cults cut-off communication, cults conceal predators, cults cause divorces and weddings, cults kill.
Wow, sounds just like my experience in ntcc. During my time in ntcc I was so distance from my family, that I would come from overseas on leave for conferences and go back overseas after conference without ever going to visit my family. I also came for Christmas one year and stayed with a brother and his wife but never went home to visit my family, all because I thought that I was doing what God wanted me to do, the one time that I did come home I would not hug any of the older or younger ladies that I had known all my life including my sisters, because I/We was taught that we was holier than the rest of the world and should not let them rub off on us. My family new that I was messed up and even said that I was in a cult, and I did not listen to them. Chief, in his blog, is very correct when he says ntcc will mess you up.
Welcome Diana,
Love your input on both blogs
Mike
I put more trust in what amount to strangers, than in my Parents my folks whom I had known all my life and still to this day, I regret ever getting involved with ntcc. I was not called to preach and I don't even have a desire to preach, however I do enjoy talking about the word and what God did for mankind through his son Jesus Christ.
God bless you all for your post that I have read. I met this wonderful man who I know loves God but is under the influence of this cult. I visited the church on several occasions and found there was NO spirit of the Lord in that place. Yes the pastor preached biblical truth but he taught in the wrong spirit. He is using the word of God to manipulate and control the mind of the members. In general conversations I realized just how bad it was when my friend made excuses for the pastor behavior. My heart aches for the thousands that are in bondage to this cult. I listened to my friend struggle with being honest with his Pastor. I listened to him use all his free time to go "SOUL-winning" which is basically inviting people to church to get cult members. Why introduce lost souls to a building, pardon me if I;m wrong but I thought we were to invite souls to Jesus. I listened to the cult jargon from the pastor, "have you talked to God about it" which is a tactic to instill fear. Yes its true, they stalk your life stopping by unannounced with the claims of just being in the neighborhood. The bible talks about If the ntcc is to go in the streets to preach Jesus why is it that the members are not allowed to visit other churches and meet other Christians. Yes I know, a cult keeping everyone under the same roof to regulate their minds. One thing that really baffled me was the hair, clothes and war paint as they call it women wear. They yell its in the bible but they preach DIVORCE...DIVORCE.... DIVORCE. Don't get me wrong I'm not judging divorce but how is it they skip over some scripture and brow-beat you with the rest. Ntcc is nothing more than a money, mind seeking cult used by satan to destroy the lives of loving, caring people that God ants to use to really teach about Jesus! I'm not fretting because this organization is slowly unraveling. To all of you that found the courage to leave this cult God-bless you. To all the women and men that read this get out while you can before you have to crawl out? Why crawl? Because after a while you feel like nothing more than a dog! Help these people dear God to break free in Jesus name. I am so grateful to God that I found this site before I committed and connected any further. I pray for the young man soul that I detached from. The bible clearly tells us that liberty is found through Christ-Jesus.....hummmm...I wonder did the ntcc talk to God about that. Much love and respect to all of you that broke free!!!
Lets keep those brothers and sisters in prayer that are still in bondage to those demonic influenced self righteous so called God-speaker and vision carriers!!!
Sometimes I get triggers during the day that remind me of my time in NTCC. It happened this morning when explaining the book "Pilgrims Progress" to my son.
The Trigger was how Davis pushed us to read that idiot Jordan's book "The 21st Centuries Pilgrims Progress" (sp?). That was such a waste of $5.00 and the 10 minutes it took to read it. I remember the disappointment in reading it and was reminded of some wasted time in the borg. The main idea of that book was Plagiarism and bad plagiarism at that. My 5 year old daughter could write better than that idiot Jordan.
Aaargh. Thanks for letting me vent.
Glad to see Mike's driving the borg into the ground!
Saved*by*Grace said:
"Yes the pastor preached biblical truth but he taught in the wrong spirit."
DNA said:
That about sums up what the ntcc is all about as good as any statement can. They do preach elements of the truth. They actually are pretty good at getting folks to the altar to cry crocodile tears. In some cases they do a pretty good job of bringing folks to Christ. It's what they do after they get their hooks in you that is alarming. We are sorry to hear about your friend but happy for you that you were able to see through the scam. Odds are that your friend will find his way out sooner than later but it's what they will do to his mind during the time they have him. He will end up idolizing them if he is not already and that is dangerous. The ntcc is the worst form of idolatry that there is. In the Old Testament men and women used to idolize statues and false Gods but now people seem to idolize false prophets. The ntcc preachers are basically false prophets. Some are willful participants and others blindly follow the corrupt fear mongering abuse that exists to profit a select few. The leaders of the ntcc are corrupt. They know it's all a scam and they exploit young men and women, mostly Soldiers in the Armed Forces who are willing to trust them with their souls. They definitely have the wrong spirit.
Anonymous said:
"The Trigger was how Davis pushed us to read that idiot Jordan's book "The 21st Centuries Pilgrims Progress" (sp?). That was such a waste of $5.00 and the 10 minutes it took to read it."
DNA said:
I agree totally and I've never read the book. George Jordan is a tool. He is definitely not the sharpest pencil in the drawer. I would imagine that George tried to incorporate the ntcc's man made holiness doctrine into his bastardization of Bunyan's original work. Isn't it interesting how ntcc style holiness didn't even exist during the time period in which Bunyan wrote his book? The "holiness" movement didn't even exist until the late 1800's and early 1900's. Back in Jesus time men and women wore robes. Jesus wasn't holiness according to the standards of the ntcc. I guess they know more than Jesus. The only thing Jesus ever mentioned in Mathew, Mark, Luke and John about how people dressed was directed towards the Scribes and Pharisees who loved to walk around in LONG robes with that holier than thou attitude. Jordan used to find fault with anyone who disagreed with him on Factnet, and he would use the childish tactics of name calling when people had his number. That's what narcissists do. When they can't attack your principles they attack your character. Jordan did this in the most immature way. Now his wife can be seen wearing devil stirrups, (ear rings) on her Facebook page. I guess the 20th Century Version didn't apply to his own family. What a joke. By the way, I think it's great that she wears ear rings, but why in the world would anyone want to listen to a dude that plagiarized a book in such fashion that it condones the actions of cult leaders who get rich off of using people?
Don and Ange said "George Jordan is a tool. He is definitely not the sharpest pencil in the drawer."
He should be glad that there wasn't exposure on his brother back in the FACTNet days or he would be kicked to the curb like Ralph St Clair was by Kekel. Here is a conspiracy theory, all this heat came out about him and his daughter and then a month later he dies? Do you think Kekel wanted the truth to die with him? Why no funeral or autopsy? I don't think NTCC is above asking someone to kill themselves in order to preserve secrets. Hopefully through Julie and other's testimonies, more will come forward and shed light on this abusive and perverse organization.
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