Courageous Movie Trailer Can a Police Officer Be Saved On YouTube
Flywheel: Can a Used Car Salesman be a Christian? On YouTube
What about a used car Salesman? Is it possible to be a Christian and a used car salesman? Can a used car salesman actually go to heaven? There is a movie called Flywheel. (Don't worry, you won't go to hell for watching this movie. By the way, the entire production budget for this movie, $20,000 was less than half of what one of Davis' Cadillacs cost us tithepayers.) Flywheel is about a Used Car Salesman who is basically over charging for the used cars that he is selling; and he is lying to people about what is wrong with the cars and how much they are worth. He even sells a car to the pastor of his church and takes him to the cleaners so to speak. God deals with this guy; and he eventually gets saved. He could be like Ashmore after getting saved and say, "Okay, my past is history, under the blood; and there are no consequences for anything I did in the past; and I owe nobody an apology; nor is there a need to make anything right with anyone." But that's not what this man chose to do. He began to sell cars at smaller commissions and required all of his salesman to be honest; and he went door to door to all the buyers of the cars that he had sold and made things right with each person. He wrote checks to the people for the money he shouldn't have made off of them and in some cases signed the titles over to the owners before they fully paid the cars off. He apologized to each person he had conned and made things right with each one. He almost lost his car dealership for doing this; but word got out that this was the best place to buy a car in town; and people came and bought every single car on his lot, giving him just enough money to get caught up and start doing things right. I know there are many scumbag car salesmen. I think that at one point in his life that Davis was a used car salesman, but I've heard him say that you can't be a used car salesman and a Christian. Maybe he said that because he couldn't do it, just like he would tell others that they could not be alone with members of the opposite sex; a rule that he didn't keep and suffered many times the consequences of his actions. Most normal people can be around members of the opposite sex alone. If you are a Christian there is no reason why you shouldn't be able to be around someone of the opposite sex. Davis was a pervert; so for him it was difficult to not obey his lustful desires. This is one example of what we call "double standards" that Davis used to preach and expect others to live by. Guess what folks? If you are not a pervert, or driven by lust to the point of not being able to control yourself around members of the opposite sex, it is not a sin, just a rule made by someone who had no self control. You can be a Salesman of cars or just about anything that is not obviously harmful to others or God, and be a Christian at the same time.
Jimmy Swaggart's Life Closely Parallels The Life Of R.W.Davis On YouTube
I don't know if it's possible to be a Christian and an ntcc minister at the same time. I can see being a policeman or a used car salesman; but how can you do the things that are required of an ntcc minister and still be saved? I know that there are many people out there that will dispute this; but lets take a serious look at what the bible says and what is required of ntcc preachers. Now keep in mind that the ntcc claims to be a bible believing church. So lets break this down. As an ntcc minister you are required to say, "All Christians pay tithe and give in offerings" prior to each collection taken up. Can you really say that and be a Christian? Is it biblical? What verse in the entire bible supports that to be a Christian you must pay tithe and give in offerings? Does this mean that if you don't pay tithe or give in offerings that you are not a Christian? Scripture, anyone? Anyone? If you do not say that eight word phrase you are disobeying those who have the rule over you; and I've actually heard that preachers have been jacked up for not saying that 8 word phrase before every single stinking collection. The ntcc requires it's members to pay tithe. If you don't pay tithe you are not allowed to live in the "Christian" Servicemen's Home. If you don't pay tithe, you are singled out and preached at by ntcc ministers. Davis taught not to bring homeless people to church because they had nothing to give or contribute. Is that a Christian thing to do? Scriptures, anyone, Anyone, Anyone? Davis taught against having cats and dogs. Scriptures anyone, Anyone? Kekel has people clean his mansion for free. Is it biblical for a New Testament preacher to get filthy rich off of people who barely have enough money to pay their bills and then have them clean your mansion for free? Anyone, Anyone? Is there a scripture for that, Anyone? Is it okay to charge interest to an ntcc minister who is paying for a building that you paid for in cash and many of the tithe paying members of that church have had their money filtered into your bank account? Anyone? Scripture? Is it lawful or Christlike to keep charging ministers, for buildings that have been bought and paid for several times over? Is it lawful or Christlike for the members of those churches to be required to pay tithes, offerings, building funds and church escrow funds and then be told to take up another offering to repair the roof? Those GI's don't grow on trees and neither does their money. The ntcc leadership is taking advantage of you as a minister; and they are preaching something that is called "False Doctrine", repeat after me, F-A-L-S-E D-O-C-T-R-I-N-E. They are making money off of your congregations; and you are letting them take advantage of your church members. Can you be a Christian and an ntcc minister at the same time? Can you preach false doctrine and be a Christian at the same time? Are double standards okay? Is it okay for you to require your church members to live by strict rules while the ntcc leadership flat out disobeys those rules?
Ferris Bueller's Day Off - Anyone? Anyone? On YouTube
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's impossible to be an ntcc preacher and a Christian at the same time. I'm not going to be as dogmatic as the ntcc can be when they place people in hell with no hope. I do think it requires a delicate balancing act and that a true and sincere minister would have to see through some of the ntcc rules and illusions that they have created and rightly divide the word of truth. I know there are sincere preachers in the ntcc; and there are sincere members that attend ntcc churches. I know they love God; and they do the best they can within the confines of their surroundings and the rules that govern them. The ntcc makes things much more difficult by enforcing their own set of rules that are not biblical. People in the early church gave to one another so that nobody lacked; and when people saw these acts of love and selflessness thousands were added to the church. Peter and John were not taking up collections so they could have bigger houses and pure bred donkeys and camels to ride on. Jesus walked from town to town and slept wherever there was someone kind enough to lodge him.
Let's try to imagine Davis living back in the days of Christ. The only people that Davis would be inviting to church would be the Roman soldiers because they had a steady income and could pay tithes and offerings. He never could subjected himself to the same surroundings that Jesus did at birth because Jesus was born in a manger with animals and Davis wouldn't even go to your house if he knew you had a cat. He would have walked out on Jesus when He was preaching the sermon on the mount, because he disagrees with the beatitudes. Blessed are the poor, really? Since when did Davis care about the poor? Blessed are the meek, really? Were Davis or Kekel meek? Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after righteousness, really? The only thing that the ntcc leadership hungers and thirsts after is money and numbers. Davis couldn't make it from town to town because Cadillacs and Recreational Vehicles were not invented yet. He wouldn't have made it in the days of Moses either because he would never have been able to get past the mixed marriage that Moses was a part of. Davis couldn't have led the children of Israel out of Egypt because there is no way Davis would live in a tent for 40 years. He wasn't even satisfied with the mansions he had and had to keep upgrading to larger mansions. Davis would have been stoned for committing adultery; so he couldn't live under the Law. The Prophets probably wouldn't want him either because his prophesies and dreams never came true. I don't think he would have made it out of the lions den alive nor out of the burning fiery furnace, because those men were able to actually divine the truth. Davis' dream must have been a pizza dream; because he never was persecuted at the St. Louis Ram's stadium, nor was anyone because it was torn down. Olson's dream of Davis going first in the rapture, followed by the board members and then the church schlubs was also a false vision because Davis never went in the Rapture. Does anyone see a pattern here? Anyone, Anyone?
166 comments:
Wow the comments that people leave that bring back so many memories. Yes I have heard this said about police officers and other professions in NTCC. They are so famous for saying " the bible says" yet they can never tell you were it says what they say.
I remember when I was a kid in a fellowship meeting in Ft. Polk, La, I was sitting with nothing to do. My brother and I were thinking of words trying to guess how many times they appeared in the bible. We came to the word tithe. Davis had just got done preaching about people robbing God of his tithe and the military folks not taking care of him as a man of God who took his time to come see him. Without thinking I said to my brother hey he just got done preaching about tithe we should ask him how many times it is in the bible. So I walked over to the area where everyone was listening to him. He turned to me barking what did I want didn't I know the food was only for the adults not the kids? He scared me so I started to walk back to where I was suppose to sit and he said Well you already interrupted me so tell me what was that important that you had to be this disrespectful. I said Sir I just wanted to ask how many times the word tithe was in the bible? I laugh at the look on his face now. I had unknowingly put him on the spot in front of all these people. He very angrily said this is not a subject that should be discussed with children and sent me back to my seat. I wonder what would have happened had an adult picked up where I had left off ignoring his angry and demanded answers.
Hugs,
Julie
Another occasion I was sitting next to Joan St. Clair and the leaders were sitting near by discussing people that they believed were holding back some of their tithe. I guess some were bible school students because they were talking about telling them they had to get paid up or they would be pulled out of bible school and sent to one of the churches to strictly be church members until they were willing get right with God and pray through.
Another one of those questions popped in my head. While the leaders sat near by Joan St. Clair and I were sitting with the leaders' wives. I turned and asked Joan St. Clair if Davis had to pay tithe or did God not require him to do that since he was the Pastor over everyone? Verna Davis turned to me and sternly said The bible says that he doesn't have pay tithe. To which I innocently said that makes sense because he would be paying it to himself. Helen Ashmore then said there are certain things that the bible says are required of certain people.
Hugs,
Julie
I believe that most NTCC preachers spend more time lying behind the pulpit then they do telling the truth about what the bible says or what verses mean.
Hugs,
Julie
Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you. Hebrews 13:17
NTCC uses this scripture so much to get people to obey them. Why do you think this verse is in the bible?
D/A thanks for reposting my question about police officers not being Christians. Also Julie thanks for verifying that someone other than .
Marshall said it too. Such false teachings may help explain why so many are unwilling to contact the police when physical abuse occurs.
Anonymous said:
"NTCC uses this scripture so much to get people to obey them. Why do you think this verse is in the bible?"
DNA said:
It's not in the bible so preachers can abuse it and use it to manipulate their members to do things that the bible doesn't require. If there ever was a scripture in the bible that the ntcc liked to abuse it's Hebrews 13:17. That verse was not put in the bible so pastors could use it to abuse their members that's for sure. In the Army we took an oath saying that we would defend the constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic and that we would obey the orders of the officers appointed over us. Did that mean that a male First Sergeant could order a female private to sleep with him? Nope. There are lawful orders and unlawful orders. The same is true with obeying spiritual leaders.
We don't have to be theologians to understand that Hebrews 13:17 is talking about obeying your spiritual leaders when it comes to spiritual matters or those matters that have to do with your well being as it relates to Christianity. If a preacher says you need to wear green sunglasses because Pastor Davis says the sky is green and the bible says obey them that have the rule over you.
I'm not sure if the person that wrote this comment is speaking on behalf of the ntcc or if there is another reason. I'm not directing this answer towards the person who wrote it unless they emphatically believe that this scripture supersedes all others. I know that it was used an awful lot in the ntcc and it was often used in place of common sense and with no regard to other scriptures. If we are going to take that scripture and use it dogmatically then we need to make sure that we are following a man of God and not some religious nut case that is in the ministry for the wrong reasons. If a preacher is teaching you tithe or hell, where is that coming from? Is it in the bible? If it's not in the bible than the man you are following is a false teacher. Most of the ntcc members and ministers don't even know the bible. They say they are bible believing Christians but they can't even get the basics right. If you are paying tithe because you think that God requires it, than you haven't read your bible. If you are following someone that preaches tithe or hell than you are following a false teacher. If you are following a false teacher, do you think God wants you to obey that false teacher and submit yourself to him? Does God want you to obey doctrines of devils all of you Ashmorgites out there? Ashmore's Associate Pastor Mathew Meinecke preaches the doctrine of the devil called the blood moon doctrine. There is only one time period in the bible where a blood moon is referred to and that is after the rapture when God releases the four horseman of the apocalypse. The blood moon occurs when after the pale horse and the rider on it whose name is death releases their plagues. During that blood moon the sun is supposed to turn black as sack cloth. I'm pretty sure that if you put a sack cloth on your head, it would be pretty black. When that happens the rulers of the earth are supposed to hide in caves and beg for the mountains to fall on them. Is any of that happening now? Then Mathew Meinecke is a false teacher and Ashmore is allowing him to pedal that garbage in his church. If you are on Ashmores bandwagon you are really out there and I feel sorry for you. You didn't learn your lesson in the ntcc, obviously. Jesus said an adulterous generation seeketh a sign and no sign shall be given...
No man knows the day that Christ will return except for the Father. People, it doesn't take a degree in Theology to figure this stuff out.
Julie said:
"Yes I have heard this said about police officers and other professions in NTCC."
Anonymous said:
"Such false teachings may help explain why so many are unwilling to contact the police when physical abuse occurs."
DNA said: That is a really good observation about parents unwillingness to contact police about abuse. I'm sure Davis and others had that in mind when they preached it. They wanted people to be scared of the police so that they wouldn't trust them. You need to keep those abuse allegations inside of the organization so people like Olson, Kekel and Davis can ignore them and make you feel like it's all your fault. They got away with a lot of stuff because they cut people off from friends and family. There is no safety net in the ntcc. What are you going to do and where are you going to go. They make it so you have little or no choices.
I hope all of this participation leads to something good. It's amazing how people continue to ignore all of the warning signs and even the common sense from inside their own hearts that tells them that something is wrong. They all need to reteach themselves the bible. I guess they are so used to people spoon feeding them scriptures like Obey them that have the rule over you Heb 13:17, And Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, (it doesn't matter what is being taught or who is teaching as long as we assemble, we'll be okay), Heb 12:14 holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.... and on and on. Okay, since the bible says we shall not see the Lord without holiness, that must mean that holiness is defined by the ntcc, because none of us have every looked it up for ourselves to see what it means. Lets just believe everything our pastor says because he has to give an account and watch for our soul. You know what? I have a better idea, lets just shut our brains off completely and let our pastor do all of our thinking for us.
Julie said:
" Verna Davis turned to me and sternly said The bible says that he doesn't have pay tithe."
DNA said:
That figures Verna would say that. Davis used to brag about not taking a Salary just like Jimmy Swaggart did in that video we posted. You don't have to take a salary when you own the bank account/slush fund that the ntcc operates on. And when you got people like Ashmore appointed as Secretary and treasurer who say they never were in on any of the financial dealings and yet they notarized all your deeds and signed your documents, why would you need a salary. If you got people like Ashmore that are willing to lie about everything they ever did, there is no need to pay taxes on a salary. I wouldn't be surprised if the majority of the income that Davis or Kekel ever made was not reported. They probably made up ledgers and lied about all their cash transactions. Pastors of non profit organizations are not supposed to get filthy rich like Davis and Kekel.
If Davis paid his tithe, he paid it from his right hand to his left hand. If Kekel paid his tithe, he paid it from his right had to his left hand. Do any of you think Verna ever paid tithes on the many gifts she received? If you do, you are about as gullible as they come. Same thing with Tanya. Do you think Tanya pays tithe on all of the stuff she buys for herself? That's an increase according to Davis. Tanya probably owes more tithe than any five people in her neighborhood that have never paid tithe in their lives put together. Tanya and Verna have spent enough of our tithe dollars over the year that if they were to pay tithe on every increase they got, they could probably build a mansion bigger than the one they now live in.
Julie said...
I believe that most NTCC preachers spend more time lying behind the pulpit then they do telling the truth about what the bible says or what verses mean.
DNA said:
I do too. It takes a lot longer to explain a lie. You have to calculate it and have answers ready for anyone who challenges you about your lie. What they end up doing is saying that they are rebellious for asking about such things and they either end up leaving or paying for it in the long run.
Julie said...
I believe that most NTCC preachers spend more time lying behind the pulpit then they do telling the truth about what the bible says or what verses mean.
DNA said:
I agree but just for the sake of giving everyone a fair shake, lets visit both sides of this issue. I agree with Julie that MOST ntcc preachers spend more time lying behind the pulpit then they do telling the truth about what verses mean. I believe this because there are a lot of mean spirited and hateful dudes that hide behind the pulpit and pretend to be ministers of light. Gandy, Kinson, Medrano and I could probably name dozens, but the average life expectancy for an ntcc preacher is not that long and has taken a toll on the ntcc old timers list. And now you got people like Ashmore bailing on the ntcc? It's not long before others will follow.
Let's take sides with the few non abusive type preachers out there. I know there is a few left. Mom and Pop Gaylord were not like Davis, Kekel, Olson and Ashmore. They knew how to treat people and were loved of many. I'm not saying that they are guiltless, because I really believe that they knew too much about Davis and for whatever reason they chose to stay with him for decades. Rodrigues is another that for the most part was a very Christlike person and I never really knew him that well but all the folks on the blogs that have spent time around him have a good impression about him. In spite of that, he has been with the ntcc for almost 5 decades also. Fortunately his work has been in the Philippines and as long as he has been there he hasn't been corrupted by the riches of tithe paying suckers. I'm not totally sure how things work in the Philippines but I know that those folks are poor and don't have a lot to give. If Rodrigues preaches tithe or hell to them, they probably do have to bring vegetables and eggs in to pay their tithe. But in spite of my thoughts of Rodrigues, he also has seen the devastation of souls in the ntcc. I look at the Rodrigues and Gaylord's a bit differently, because I believe there was a degree of sincerity and love that guided them. I don't know at what point God holds people accountable for what they allow to happen around them or if he weighs the good against the bad in their case, but I know that there are people like Davis, Kekel, Olson and Ashmore that are big time frauds and con artists who get rich off of God's people. There is absolutely no excuse for people that obtain wealth by fleecing God's people for money.
I truly wish this had been preached at my first service. I was an MP and would have just left and not come back instead of losing 4-5 years and thousands of dollars.
I wonder what the average sex abusing cultist thinks of the police? I bet it isn't that far off from what's being shared here.
Mike
As for your everyday variety ntcc preacher that's fresh out of bible school wanting to tear up the world, many of them are misguided and have been taught false doctrine. In spite of that I believe there are a few that pray and really want to do the right thing. Unfortunately they believe the same lies about tithe and they don't reach out to people because of their financial status or ability to pay tithe. It all revolves around money, folks, and that's what makes the ntcc so corrupt. Money is important even to a church, but when money becomes the primary focus, there is no room for Jesus.
I know there are pastors in the ntcc struggling with all the rules in the ntcc. They aren't stupid. They see where the money goes and they know it's wrong. When you are in that position it's hard to change things. You can't change the rules and keep your ntcc building. If you don't have the resources it's hard to just believe God and strike out on your own with only a few souls. I sure would like to see a few of these struggling preachers try that. I think they would be surprised that if they exchanged ntcc bondage for Christian freedom the finances would probably roll in like never before. The ministry is not supposed to be a huge financial burden. In the early church, when preachers went to places to start churches, there was never emphasis placed on getting a building and teaching people to pay tithe. I think a lot of them preached in public venues or on mountainsides like Jesus did. They had services in their homes.
Now there is so much pressure to get a building and to go full time. You have to drain every one of your members of all their income just to make ends meet and the ntcc doesn't make it any easier on you because you have to give them more than a reasonable amount of money in exchange for a place to have church and then you have to send large portions of tithes and offerings to Graham in addition. You are set up for failure from day one and the average life expectancy of your own church members is not up to you or them it's up to the powers that be in the organization that make up rules to snag you and trap you along the way. If your members ever leave you, they have to endure some abusive jerk or a bunch of cult rules in bible school, and most of the church members do not survive, so in the end you have accomplished little. It's really a lot like those nature programs if you've ever watched one. A Mother Alligator lays a hundred or more eggs and when the babies hatch they are tiny. The mother has to carry them to the water and let them go. Many of them get eaten right out of the nest by predators and others that make it to the water get eaten by other predators. Usually a very small percentage make it to adulthood when they become predators themselves. It's a lot like that in the ntcc. One out of a hundred survive and you are lucky if any of them leave and find a healthy church where they can be themselves and enjoy their Salvation.
Is it impossible to be an ntcc minister and make it to heaven? I would say, no, not impossible, but I would take my chances as a used car salesman or a policeman over an ntcc preacher any day.
Mike said:
"I wonder what the average sex abusing cultist thinks of the police?"
DNA said:
Now that I think about it, I don't remember any cops ever coming out regularly to any of the ntcc services. I'm sure that Cops were the last people that the ntcc would want to see saved. Cops are trained to investigate. Cops know what the signs of sexual abuse are. Cops are trained to see through lies and cover ups and in many cases they could probably see through the fraudulent activity of an ntcc cult leader.
Davis would always exclude groups of people from heaven. He once said he never saw a Puerto Rican get saved before. He never saw a Homosexual get saved before. He never saw a used car salesman get saved before and now it turns out that policemen were excluded from heaven contrary to the bible. I think Davis' problem is that he never got saved himself but he used the people of God as merchandise to make money instead of being a servant. Davis was a master of people. He knew how to manipulate them. He knew how to make them give, how to make them sacrifice, how to keep them quiet, how to keep them dumbed down, how to keep them from going to the police, how to keep them from having their own understanding of the bible and how to get people to do what ever he wanted them to do to benefit him financially or to satisfy his lust for young girls and women.
NTCC ministers put so many restrictions on who can make it to heaven and who can't. It's laughable and totally absurd at the same time. The harsh reality is, according to Davis'own proclaimed standards, I can't think of one single NTCC minister or member who will qualify for entrance into heaven to include Davis. Police can't make it, car salesman can't make it, attorneys, people who work on weekends, people who don't go soul winning, people who play sports, people who wear shorts or ladies who wear pants or jewelry. None of them can make it. The list is infinite.
So the only way to make it into heaven is be a full time NTCC minister who does exactly what he is told by the leaders of the NTCC. You can also make it if you are the wife or children of a full time NTCC minister and do exactly what your brainwashed husband or father says.
That's the only way to make it into heaven. That's nothing but pure nonsense. Total hogwash.
Our first pastor was Cyrius back when David was a child. He was abusive to his son and we are shocked to read on here that it was going on even as a baby as well. We were a new to the church at the time. We first went to the associate pastor to ask about how the church teaches in raising and disciplining children. We shared with the associate our concerns on the harsh discipline. We got the impression that this was normal. We then went to Cyrius about it to which he quoted a bunch of scriptures to us. We thought maybe since we didn't have kids we didn't know how hard they could be to raise. Unknown to us when Ashmore came to town the associate brought our concern to him. Ashmore in the next service got up preaching about people that are so business worrying about how other people are rising their kids that they ignore their sin in their life and you have time to be worrying about what someone else is doing to their child you are wasting the time God has given you to serve him. He went on to preach why don't you use that time praying about your own sin, soul-winning, helping at the church, and being a blessing to your pastor. The sermon was entitled "Wasted Time".
It should have been a sign to get out but all it did is make us feel we were in the wrong. So in that service we got right with God. The associate disappeared two days after Ashmore got done preaching all his sermons. When we asked about him we were reminded about the sermon of wasted time.
We were not sent to bible school under Cyrius and it wasn't until years later that we learned it was because Cyrius liked the fact we were his huge tithe and offering givers. We personally think that is one of the many reasons the preachers use envelopes and tithe records so they can see who are the big tithe payers.
Cyrius also preached against, police, doctors, and any profession that would be any help to kids in our opinion.
The next pastor we had was fresh out of bible school and this pastor is the one that sent us to bible school. This pastor preached so against kids that when we was sent to bible school we didn't tell our pastor the day before we left my wife found out we were excepting a baby fearing this pastor would tell us God wanted the baby aborted.
We started bible school telling no one about her pregnancy. She survived her first term. Then she was jacked up about being pregnant and stopped the ministry. One of the leader's wive asked her how could she have unprotected sex knowing that her husband was going into the ministry? This really shock her up.
It took pastoring three different churches before we decided to leave. We never could bring ourselves to ever treat our kid like we had seen Cyrius and others do with their kids. Our hearts are heavy though that we didn't try harder to protect others kids from their own parents.
Thank you for reading this.
1 Timothy 5:20 Has been twisted itself about, rebuking openly for all may fear. Well that section is talking about exposing an elder of the church and his or her bad conduct. Even if did say,......just say it was talking about normal church members. It is to those that are causing a sinfull division and heresies in the church NOT because someone came short of God or made a mistake. They use verses like that to embarrass and hamilute people in public and at church. It's just about control.
Brother Ken Davis was very much afraid of the police, when I was in CID he accused me of spying on them, this was after I got raped at the service men's home. after the pastor called. him he flue in to town, did not care if I was all right, did not want me to go to the triage, grabbed me by elbow and said are you spying on us, I threw his hand off me and told him not unless your selling drugs around here. He did not want the military getting involved in his business. In late 1982 after my two years of inactive duty was over, I got a letter from the military they asked me if I would come to the military base fort riley to help them with a case I had already worked on before I got out of the service, Davis wanted to know what was in the letter I told him know was not the time for him to be asking me questions, we could talk later. man was he mad, I wanted to think about the letter and call the commanding officer of the base, after the conversation I agreed to go for a weekend, I told Davis he said to me are you in bible school or military, I then told him he had better walk a straight line with me tit for tat, this General is asking me a favor, one hand will wash the other I told him I would be very care full if I was you how many of your precious bible school students have you bullied in to not singing up for there two year commitment, after they got out of the service. they will be doing there weekends and two weeks a year when I get through with you. he said are you threatening me I said no I'm telling you. and I will see you when I get back,
Ken, YOU ROCK!!! Back then you stood up to Davis. Wish we all would have!
Anonymous said:
"So the only way to make it into heaven is be a full time NTCC minister who does exactly what he is told by the leaders of the NTCC."
DNA said:
There is another short cut that we forgot to mention. Bring in large amounts of money and numbers and they'll love you unless you get "lifted up in pride". Being lifted up in pride is how they describe people who have a certain degree of success in the ntcc and begin to feel confident. I'm sure if this happens to you, Kekel will be there to insure that you remember your humble beginings. Too much success will make Kekel look like the failure in life that he is and you will end up paying in the end. Narcissists do not like it when attention is diverted from them to somebody else.
If you want to get Kekel's goat and the tree it is tied to, start being successful and if lots of people start praising you for your accomplishments Kekel will be sure to knock you off your high horse just like Davis would if he were still around. Davis hated to see others succeed, and so does Kekel. Kekel has never accomplished much of anything on his own so if you want to see him get his feathers ruffled become more successful than he is. There's no way you will ever become richer than he is in the ntcc, but if you start doing things that he's never done or showing him up, he'll figure out somewhere to send you that is dead and dried up. It's amazing how some folks victory depends on what others do or don't do. Kekel might not lose the victory because he never had it, but if you show him up in front of others, or if you take some of his attention away from him, he will show you his true colors.
Hurray, Bro Ken! I wish there was a thread of times people stood up to abusive ministers or how they left the church. Might inspire someone!
Tonight Ange told me about a story she read about the Duggar Family who have, (had), a reality show on tv called "19 Kids and Counting"; about a wholesome conservative family who live by holiness standards much like the ntcc and practice many strict religious customs like "Modest Apperal" and swimming fully clothed. Recently the eldest son has confessed to molesting young girls some of which were his own sisters. This happened in 2003, when Josh Duggar, the oldest of the 19 children in the Duggar family was around 15 years of age. The Duggar family have been called Quiverfull breeders and bible adherents who use a home schooling program run by alleged cult figurehead Bill Gothard. Gothard was forced to resign as head of the Advanced Training Institute due to accusations from 34 women that he had sexually assaulted them. In spite of the 79 year old Gothard's resignation, the Duggar family continued to use Gothard's training program to home school thier children and this program consisted of lessons on how to deal with sexual abuse in the home.
The lessons were considered creepy but now in light of Josh Duggar's admission this week that he abused his youger sisters as a teen it is even more disturbing. The lessons are frighteningly light on personal responsibility but heavy on blame for the victim. They use a scenario where an older boy molests younger sisters and the blame is placed on the sisters for dressing 'immodestly'. They also say that the parents exposed the boy to temptation by having him change his sisters diapers. The Gothard document blames porn and it's noted that of the four listed consequences of sexual abuse, three concentrate on damage to public image. Sound familiar? The ntcc was always much more concerned about their public image then whatever harm was done to the victim. The Gothard system asks the victims questions about weather they brought the abuse on themselves by defrauding God or dressing immodestly. They ask the victims if they were associating with evil friends and if they were guilty and apologized to God. Only then does it move on to, "if the abused was miraculously not at fault", at least you still have your spirit, and if you had to choose, it's better to have that than not to be sexually abused. There is no mention that the victims should not have to make that choice.
It never ceases to amaze me how that so called "holiness" groups seem to be magnets for sexual predators, incest and fraudulent cover ups. The Amish, the Pentecostal Holiness, the ntcc and the Duggar family spend so much time trying to show the world how perfect they are and it all seems to be nothing but a big show.
One thing that really disturbs me about this story is how the victims are interrogated as if it were their fault. Rather than placing the blame on the parents or the older brother, the home schooling cult leader that this family followed directed them to blame the victims and never hold the abuser accountable for his actions. I wonder if Davis, Olson, Kekel and Ashmore all read Gothards policy on sexual abuse in his home schooling training manual, because they sure did handle situations like this in similar fashion. I question anyone who wants to treat victims of sexual abuse like criminals. Why would anyone do that?
Julie, I have been through some trying times in my life also. Through absolutely no fault on your part, you made the perfect victim for NTCC perverts. After reading your life history and your testimonies, I believe you. If it's okay with D/A and you ever want someone to just talk to about everything and nothing at the same time, you can email me. If you don't contact me, I understand. After everything you have been through, trusting is difficult. Don, please delete my email address for the blog posting but please give it to Julie if she wants it- Julie, please put "From Julie NTCC" in the subject line, I get alot of spam and delete unknown emails without reading them. Thanks, Joan B. on How Long Will You Continue To Sit At The Children's Table?
Anonymous said...
Our first pastor was Cyrius back when David was a child. He was abusive to his son and we are shocked to read on here that it was going on even as a baby as well.
DNA said:
Yes, Cyrius was very abusive towards his son and his people skills lacked human decency. I never seen someone so cruel to an infant in my life. I feel sorry for the kid because just looking at his facebook page, I can tell that he grew up with serious issues. Alice Cyrius is not guiltless in this either. She never did anything to stop the beatings and the beatings happened very frequently. What a man Cyrius was, ruthlessly beating on a 1 year old child.
I remember during a conference, I was trying to work out some personal stuff I was going through because of what I went through years earlier in the Servicemen's home. Davis preached some kind of message about confessing sins and I don't remember the title but everyone came to the altar that night and many came straight to him to confess or seek his advice. I was the first one to approach him during Altar call and I told him what was going on in my heart and he told me to pray and that he would see me later during that conference. Many people streamed to him that night while he was sitting in his chair in the middle of the platform as if it was a throne and he were king over many subjects. Later that night he had a huge line of people that were mostly ministers that he invited to spill their guts to him after that service. I figured I'd get in that line also because he did say that he would talk to me later about my 'heart problems' or what I thought were my heart problems.
I got in line and right after me, Cyrius got in line. Cyrius was bent out of shape at me for being in line because I wasn't a minister. He told me that I needed to talk to my own pastor about my problems. I pretty much just ignored him and spent the whole time in line listening to Cyrius grumble at me for jumping my chain of command. I felt like telling him to get his nose out of my business and worry about himself. Obviously he had problems of his own or he wouldn't have been in that line. It's amazing how people will stand in line for hours to confess their deepest and darkest secrets to a man that isn't even saved, and some of his loyalist followers will begrudge a man the oportunity to spill his guts. When I finally made it to the front of the line, I told Davis what was on my mind in more detail than I did during the Altar call and Davis told me that he would pray for me, and that I was to pray about it and that he would definitely talk to me before the end of conference.
Well, we made it to the last night of conference and Davis made a blanket statement to all who were in attendance that if he told us that he would talk to us, not to worry, but God would work out our problems and to continue to pray and give it all to God. And then with a big God Bless you to everyone, the conference was over. I felt no more saved then when the first nights service began.
I look back on my experience in the ntcc and realize that the ntcc leadership never wanted you to have peace. They never favored grace over judgement or love over jacking someone up. They wanted each individual to be in constant conflict and beating themselves up because of their short comings or your own failure to obtain the perfection that they constantly nagged you to obtain, or live up to the expectations of people like Davis who was a morally bankrupt religious hypocrite whose only care in life was conning you out of your hard earned money while he was busy laying up treasures on this earth, expected you to live up to. If you want mercy, If you want grace, if you want forgiveness or if you want love; stop trying to find it in the ntcc, because there is a huge empty whole right in the middle of the ntcc that is totally void of the concept of the love of Christ. I've found more love, mercy, grace and forgiveness outside of the ntcc than I ever would find inside.
Anonymous said:
"Unknown to us when Ashmore came to town the associate brought our concern to him. Ashmore in the next service got up preaching about people that are so business worrying about how other people are rising their kids that they ignore their sin in their life and you have time to be worrying about what someone else is doing to their child you are wasting the time God has given you to serve him. He went on to preach why don't you use that time praying about your own sin, soul-winning, helping at the church, and being a blessing to your pastor. The sermon was entitled "Wasted Time"."
DNA said:
Classic Ashmore. Damage control and Axe-man extroardinaire. Here comes Ashmore to save the day and jack you up for being concerned about the welfare of someone else's child. He want's to take the knowledge of sin from being directed at Cyrius and direct it at you. Ashmore was a master at re-establishing blame and re-assigning guilt. When Davis or anyone was being challenged for their sins, Ashmore was the one man maintenance crew assigned to clean up the messes that others made. He was really good at coming into a place or situation that he was detached from and convincing all of the parties involved that the abuser was not guilty of abuse but rather the accuser of the abuser was guilty of not minding his own business and by the time Ashmore got done plowing your fields, there was no self confidence left and all accusations were forgotten. Of coarse Ashmore must have thought that the workers were a threat also because they believed your acknowelegment of outright abuse that Cyrius was involved in and Ashmore didn't want you to have any allies so he moved the workers and left Cyrius there to look down his long crooked nose at you like you were demons doomed to the pit of hell for daring to bring light into his dark world.
Cyrius and his wife were on a country drive I think for his birthday not long ago in his BMW when they hit a horse. That horse that just happened to be in the middle of the road totalled their car and landed them in the hospital in critical condition. Now if that had been an X-member of the ntcc, they would have used it as an opportunity to call out the sin they claim is in our lives and they would say that it was judgement. Of course, that isn't how Cyrius was treated. He was treated as if God's angels were protecting them from death and that it was a trial of their faith and courage and blah, blah, blah. I think that God was giving them a golden opportunity to take a look at the way they had treated others over the last 3 decades and get their own hearts right. Hopefully they took that opportunity and used it to change who they were and how they falsely represented Christ.
Brother Ken said:
"Davis he said to me are you in bible school or military, I then told him he had better walk a straight line with me tit for tat, this General is asking me a favor, one hand will wash the other I told him I would be very care full if I was you how many of your precious bible school students have you bullied in to not singing up for there two year commitment, after they got out of the service. they will be doing there weekends and two weeks a year when I get through with you. he said are you threatening me I said no I'm telling you. and I will see you when I get back,"
DNA said:
Davis and Kekel both needed this kind of boldness and they needed for people to get in their face and call them out. Unfortunately too many of us were under the spell of their brainwashing and we were not able to see things for what they really were. The same type of mind control is employed to day by Kekel and Olson and the rest of the Cult leaders in the ntcc. Keep people so busy that they don't have time to think things over and constantly jack them up so they will feel inferior. If half of us would have woke up from our ntcc slumber and stood up to these lying hypocrites we could have shined the light on them for all to see what they were really all about.
I was looking up information on colleges and i came across the ntcc handbook. Looks like you had posted it awhile back but it was my first time seeing it and im just like wow...craziness
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=handbook2.pdf%20new%20testament&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ntccxposed.com%2FHandbook2.pdf&ei=b7tiVafgE4eDsAWomYHoCg&usg=AFQjCNG5bZQT2_23dPEB8UBYlwRnz-SRMQ&bvm=bv.93990622,d.b2w
Hi Cherrie,
Nice to hear from you again. Hope you are doing well. That also can be found on GS/DS blog, (Greg and Deb's blog) in their side bar along with lots of other good info. If you are ever looking for a treasure trove of info, that's one place to get educated on ntcc's history.
Today I was reading about marriage in 1 Cor 7. The whole chapter speaks about marriage and when you compare that chapter with what the ntcc actually practices, it appears that the ntcc has it wrong again. What do you call someone who teaches false doctrine? False teachers or you can also call them liars, and we all know what Rev. 21:8 says about all (A Double L, ALL) Liars. There is just no other way to put it. Paul spells it out so that a 6th grader can understand it. One of the first things Paul teaches in VS 2 of 1 Cor 7 is: "Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband." The Tiemans didn't teach this but fell into the category that Paul wrote in 1 Tim 4:3 "Forbidding to Marry". When a preacher or his wife take it upon themselves to manipulate church members to the extent that they encourage them not to get married inspite of their natural feelings toward one another, they are teaching false doctrine and they are adding to and taking away from the bible. This practice is not biblical but many in the ntcc advocate match making. Match making is putting two people together based on ones opinion of who should be paired together, not who wants to be paired together. Often this leads to a person or persons being deprived of having a natural relationship and getting married which is biblicly endorsed and the right thing to do.
In Vs. 10 Paul shares: And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
and Vs. 11: But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
How many times have we seen this scripture trampled under foot by ntcc members at the approval of ntcc ministers? This is not what happens in the ntcc. The two that can't get along are often encouraged to get a divorce so that the one who is willing to stay in the ntcc and put up with their garbage can be recycled into another marriage. It happens in the ntcc at an alarming rate. Busy bodies like Verna and Tanya will visit with the wife of a couple that is having problems and try to encourage the woman to leave the man so she can get remarried. You don't believe me? Someone in the ntcc with intestinal fortitude and a backbone ought to ask Verna and Tanya about their visit to Jean Keys to try to get her to leave Ted. The men also tried to get Ted to leave Jean, but they both loved each other too much to allow some nosey busybodies to get divorced. In the ntcc it's divorce on demand. They practice it all the time.
Paul was very plain about Marriage and so was Jesus, but the ntcc does not practice the truth and they are not bible believing Christians. They lie and say that they are the last of the true believers but what they actually practice contradicts what they preach. They are false teachers and false prophets.
I had a preacher that would "hook"single brothers up to single ladies in the church. But I know it was control in reality. He is one of those preachers that would "con" people into going to bible school. But him "hooking" you up was that he would hook you up to whom he saw fit. Talk about taking it upon himself. How controlling!
Blood moon is in the King James 3 times. In Acts, Joel, and Revelation.
Do you think the false doctrine about police not getting saved was targeted? Do you think they were shooting fish in a barrel? Maybe they were trying to discredit a particular cop. Wasn't Bro Ken in CID? Criminal Investigation Division. To a bad person any lawman is a terror.
Anonymous said...
Blood moon is in the King James 3 times. In Acts, Joel, and Revelation.
DNA said:
I know. What I said was that it only happens one time. All three references refer to one moon turning to blood one time. All Three scriptures in Joel, Acts and Revelation make reference not only to the moon turning into blood but also to the Sun turning black. Meinecke, the false prophet and second in command at Ashmores church was using one of many moons that were originally called harvest moons to predict end times. He was calling a Harvest moon, a blood moon. The only time there is a blood moon mentioned in the bible is in prophesy of the three mentioned scriptures and that is referred to as the great and terrible or notable day before Armegeddon. I'm not a bible scholar but I've read the bible enough to know that the two scriptures in Joel and Acts are referring to the same occourance which will happen in the book of Revelation. I do know that no man knows when Jesus is coming take his church so neither can any man predict when the four horses and their riders are going to be released. Niether do we know when the 7 angels are going to pour out their vials or when the Lamb is going to open the seven seals. It really doesn't matter because Jesus said that an adulterous generation seeketh a sign and no sign shall be given other than the Prophet Jonas. (3 days in the whales belly vs. 3 days the son of God would rise from the dead). No man knows the hour when Jesus shall return.
So my point is that Mathew Meinecke is a false phrophet preaching end of times doctrine and Ashmore is allowing him to do it using the name of his church on the YouTube chanel that he teaches on. It seems like they are doing damage control now because they haven't released any of their videos in a couple weeks now. I'm pretty sure when we called them on their false doctrine that Ashmore put an end to it just like the ntcc does when we call them out on their false doctrine. Does anybody wonder why this guy Meinecke is producing such material as the blood moon doctrine? Has anybody asked themselves why Ashmore would allow this one guy to be his associate pastor? Is Meinecke married? Is there some kind of history between Meinecke and Ashmore? I know there was quite a history in the ntcc of Ashmore doing some pretty questionable things and I also know that there are many X-ers that want Ashmore to be real. I'm just asking a question and floating an observation. Brother Ken said that he went to Ashmore and reported Peters for writing multiple letters to him asking for sex and Ashmore kicked him out of his office and wouldn't believe him. He also told Ashmore that Batson told him that he wanted to take him to the deepest part of hell and made sexual advances towards Bro. Ken. Brother Ken did the right thing and refused these advances but Ashmore tried once again to get Ken to leave the church. He moved Batson and Peters around in St. Louis to different churches. This was unheard of and when Davis confronted Ashmore about this, Ashmore lied according to Bro. Ken. Davis believed Bro. Ken more than he believed Ashmore and had to get rid of Peters and Batson himself. Do we have a right to wonder what Ashmore's relationship is with Meinecke? They sure do seem to spend a lot of time together on YouTube.
Anonymous said...
Do you think the false doctrine about police not getting saved was targeted?
DNA said:
I absolutely believe that it was targetted. They not only didn't want people to trust police but all of the pastors that tried to emulate Davis often preached the same thing. I hadn't been around Davis much at all but hearing an ntcc preacher preach, is just like hearing Davis preach. They all say the same things and regurgitate the same false doctrine. They all propogate a bunch of lies that place condemnation on people. I don't think it was just because of Brother Ken being in CID but that probably made Davis more nervous and less trusting. Davis didn't want police or anyone sniffing around the Servicemen's works trying to investigate anything. It was all an illegal operation. It was all being hidden by a tax exempt status and Davis was getting rich.
Anonymous said...
I had a preacher that would "hook"single brothers up to single ladies in the church.
DNA said:
I believe you 100%. When I was in there were very few sisters and whenever a Servicemen's home got a sister or two, workers would miraculously be sent to that work and would swoop in and marry the single sisters before they even went to bible school. Any that were left over were off limits to the brothers in the home. We were expected to be celibate, and not even given a chance to develop any kind of aquaintence with the sisters other than saying, God bless you sister.
In the 1.5 years I was at Marshall's Serviceman's home there were 5 single woman. Only 2 were military- me and another soldier. Like I had mentioned earlier, I married a soldier that I was later told by Marshall that I should have come to him and he would have found me a better man and that he wasn't bible school material.
He hooked up another female soldier to marry one of his future BS students. She caught wind of what NTCC was about and left single after 3-4 months.
Marshall confided with me in his office (he asked to talk to me alone, nothing hinky occurred). He was so hurt that the girl ran off and married another soldier (he wasn't in NTCC). Marshall showed me a picture from the paper of her and her father walking down the isle. His pain was that "he was more of a father to her than her own father (which had molested her) and she let her father walk her down the isle. He was hurt because she didn't ask Marshall to. Remember, she left the church and the brother he hooked her up with. I told him that her father had every right to do it. No matter what he did to her he was still her biological father. She still loved him and that was her choice to make. I also told him that he could never take the place of her dad.
What took me back were several things. First, he asked to talk to me alone in his office (this happened several times and nothing wrong happpened). Secondly, he exposed the fact that this woman was molested. Something he said she told him privately. Yes, I did tell him he should never had repeated that to me. Thirdly, he was so hurt. The girl had left about 6 months prior. Fourthly, he would often preach from the pulpit that he was more of a father to us than our own family. My ex bought into that 100%.
The other three ladies (civilian) that weren't "Bible School" material were married off in weeks to "non BS material". They all dated less than 6 weeks. They all were divorced within 6 months. Marshall was the one making the hook ups. I could only assume the reason he created such horrific mismatches was so the "boys wouldn't burn with lust". It was "okay to have sex in marriage". It would have been so much better for them to have had dated much longer and had sex outside of marriage than to have dated only weeks, marry for a few months, and then divorce.
So it looks like Marshall was 0-5 in arranged marriages and most of the subjects of his experiments never went on to do much for the ntcc. What really gets my goat is how people are designated as non Bible School Material or non-BSM. First of all you got to look at the ones that are determining who is BSM. It's actually pretty funny in a way. I know it's devisive and a lot of people felt less than human because they were given the "rejected" tag, but what are they really being rejected for? Non-BSM basically means the only thing you are good for is paying your tithe. That actually should be a huge relief. The ntcc has everything backwards. There is a pecking order in the ntcc, but God esteems the more uncomely parts of his body to have more abundant comeliness and He has given more abundant honor to the parts that lack,(1 Cor 12:22-25). I think the non-BSM's have a much better chance of making it to heaven that the BSM's do. The non-BSMs don't have to endure the same level of brain washing, nor do they have to be taught how to manipulate people. For the most part the non-BSMs don't have it in their blood to extract money from others or to manipulate them. The guy who was 0 for 5 in match making was the same guy who was deciding who was bible school material and who was not. Marshall sounds like a real loser. He sounds like someone who should be more concerned about his own salvation than that of others. I bet if the ones deemd non-BSM by the ntcc pastors were all properly trained the ntcc would be an entirely different environment and it would be much better than it is now. Bible School Material is a label or tag used by a bunch of money grubbing hypocrites to decide who gets to brainwash the next generation of suckers that comes into the ntcc. The only ones that really succeed in the ntcc are the ones who thrive in this pecking order and that are willing to climb over the backs of their brothers and sisters to get to the top of the pyramid, but they don't realize that they will never make it to the top, because the top is reserved for family in a family run business.
The NTCC model is not the model for running a church. God has a different model and in 1 Cor 12, Paul describes the offices and gifts and puts them in order, and at the very end of 1 Cor 12, he says to: "Covet earnestly the best gifts and yet show I unto you a more excellent way",(1 Cor 12:31). This is what the ntcc missed out on. They were so busy among themselves worshiping Davis and pointing out sins, and trying to walk a perfect line that they missed the boat entirely. The ntcc leadership was trying to turn the New Testament into a Law of their own. They were more interested in defining rules, and assigning judgements to those who broke the rules that they missed the greatest of them all. The Law of Love is limitless, and knows no boundaries. Many waters can not quench love, neither can the floods drown it; if a man would give the entire substance of his house for love, it would utterly be contemned, (Song of Sol 8:7). Paul teaches about love in a way you will never see in the ntcc. He says it doesn't matter if you speak with the tongues of men or Angels. It doesn't matter if you have the gift of prophesy and understand all mysteries and knowledge. It doesn't matter if you have all the faith in the world so that you could remove mountains. It does not matter if you give everything you have to feed the poor, or even if you give your own body to be burned, if you don't have love, you have nothing. Then Paul begins to explain what love accomplishes in your life and you will find that the results of love are much different than what you will find in the ntcc leadership, because they don't have this priority in the right place.
Love or Charity suffers long and is kind. Love doesn't throw a brother out of the church for not paying his tithe. Love doesn't designate a person as non bible school material because they don't jump high enough in church service or shout amen the loudest while their preacher picks others apart for not dotting every i or crossing every t. Love envies not, does not vaunt itself or puff itself up. It doesn't say I have 2 Doctors degrees and if you don't like the way I preach, there is the door. Love doesn't say not to invite homeless people out to church because you can't build a work for God with homeless people. I bet you could. Why doesn't the ntcc leadership invite homeless people out to church and help them work through their problems and help them find employment? Because they are too busy worshiping Davis and trying to live up to standards that exist only in the minds of these religious elitests that they allow to manipulate them. "Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;" Does not hide behind the pulpit pointing at others and looking down their nose at them while blasting them for the mote that is in their eye, when they have beams in their own eyes. Paul says that Love seeketh not her own. Love doesn't plow people under for their lack of giving and then use their money to build a better life for themselves. How can you steal the future away from the members of your congregation and watch that money being spent on upgrades for the mansions that Mike and Tanya Kekel live in? How is it that a family can do without and pay their tithe and have to eat Ramen and bologna so that Tanya can go shopping at Nordstroms for $400.00 Alpacca scarfs? Is that love? The ntcc has taken this entire chapter, ripped it out of the bible and decided to live opposite to this. You all need to wake up. You are missing the primary ingredient to Christianity and Salvation. If you devoted the same attention to Love that you give to paying tithe and giving in offerings, the world would be a much better place. Unfortunately the ntcc is more like an infectous disease that drains people of their joy and freedom, and teaches them to live in bondage and legalism. Outward 'holiness' is of much more importance than inward love.
"Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but in truth;" Davis telling N jokes and everyone laughing except the ones that are being made fun of. Davis could call someone out by name and say something degrading about them and make it humorous and everyone would laugh, while that person had to deal with the aftermath of everyone laughing at him like an idiot. Kekel isn't any better, he follows in the same footsteps of Davis. Davis would rejoice in iniquity, knowing that something was wrong, knowing that he wasn't teaching the truth in it's entirety. We could go on and on about Love and compare the way Jesus taught about love to the way that the ntcc neglects the basics of love in every day life.
Love isn't too big to say, I'm sorry either, or I was wrong. One of the biggest problems with the ntcc and Ashmore included, is they will never admit that they were wrong and they will never approach a brother or sister with an apology or to try to make things right. They should not only be willing to apologize to a brother or sister, but if they accused a brother or sister from the pulpit, they should get back behind that pulpit and make a public apology. If they embarrassed someone in public, they should be man enough to apologize in public. Most of the ntcc leadership will never admit they were wrong, and if they do, they will not admit to the specifics. Everyone wants to point to David and his repentance, but they do not want to follow his model of confession and public humiliation that he had to go through.
Today I was also reading about the whole long hair issue and I couldn't find anywhere that the bible says that a woman can't cut her hair or that she has to wear a wig if it isn't long enough. This is another area of Focus that the ntcc has in the wrong place on their priority list. They like to control women and to make them all look the same. If you look at many of the pictures of long time ntcc women, you basically see the same thing. You see an older and tired, worn out woman with a glazed over look trying to present a small degree of sincerity behind the smile. You see the Pentecostal poof and the long hair which may be enhanced with a wig or a hair piece. You're starting to see more and more make up and lip stick as the years go by. The board members wives were in many cases using foundation and wrinkle cream all along, while the average ntcc member was blasted and humiliated for doing the same. The ntcc pastor would scoul at women from behind the pulpit and say, "It doesn't matter how many times you paint an old barn, It's still an old barn". He was more guilty of treating his wife like an old barn while she was just wanting to look good for him. But you can't please some people because they aren't saved and they are not going to get saved. They are just bitter fault finders that are so busy straining at the gnats in other peoples eyes that they can not see clearly enough in their own lives to cast out the beam that is in their own eyes. 1 Cor 11:6 "For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered." This doesn't say nor imply that a woman can never cut her hair, neither does the rest of chapter 11. This is another example of the ntcc interpreting a scripture a certain way and making a controlling false doctrine out of it. The ntcc teaches that if a woman cuts her hair she might as well shave it all off. This is not what it says, and the only way you can get that meaning out of this passage is to add to it or take away from it. You have to completely change what it says to get the ntcc's version of "if you cut your hair your going to hell doctrine." They need to get back to the basics and stop creating false doctrines. If they would focus half of their time on 1 Cor 13 instead of twisting other scriptures to create manipulative doctrines that control people to do what they want them to do, they would be much better off.
I remember confronting a minister concerning the different things the ntcc considers "sin"
I said : " so you mean to tell me that all the people that don't go to church on the days prescribed by the org like the nurses, doctors, police etc etc. they are all gonna go to hell?
What about the people that are working at the airport? The people at the gas stations? People at the restaurant that you go when you finish your service at night and you go out to a restaurant to fellowship? I mean I could go on and on but you get the idea.
This minister just stood there realizing that his thinking was way off.
Another time I asked: " so you mean to tell me that when I die God is gonna tell me you can't enter to Heaven because you wore makeup or you cut your hair?! Huh?
Wasn't it enough the blood that was shed?
Exactly. You can almost see the smoke coming out as the wheels slowly begin to turn for the very first time.
Ntcc has always had a "grace plus ..." doctrine. You are saved by the blood plus don't cut your hair ladies, don't grow a beard men ... ,
and the list goes on and on.
All Christians pay tithe and give in offerings.
Women are keepers at home is added onto and twisted to become a married women can't work doctrine of men.
Pretty soon the add ons become more important than the scripture. The commandments of man taught as doctrine make the Word of God of none effect - powerless. Legalism and rules replace grace and truth. The result is death - spiritual death.
I remember the first time I went out to the store wearing scrubs which were pants, I felt good because I was earning money.
If you are a member don't let anybody bully you or try to make you accountable to the rules the ministers are under, you as a member are under no obligation to follow the same rules that the ministers and wives adhere to.
#letthetruthprevail
Brother Ken to all the ladies in NTCC that have been sexually abused by the leadership stop going to your husbands if they have no taken any action against them, and this is for you single ladies also, go to the authorities, get them involved it is your body, you take action. and for those who think I have never had it out with Davis, then ask the lying Tayna in 1981 she accused me of taken a song book from her, I know your reading Tayna, remember, I even recall the song you said I wanted. It was My House is Full but My Fields are Empty. remember that night in the office up stairs when your dad called me in and wanted me to replace the book, I told him no, remember how mad he was for me calling you a liar. and I told him he better look some place else because it was not me. and I told him don't bother me again about the book, it was not me, and I was not buying you anything. buy it your self, you can pretend to be a saint, but God see's right through you and Mike
Anonymous said...
I remember the first time I went out to the store wearing scrubs which were pants, I felt good because I was earning money.
If you are a member don't let anybody bully you or try to make you accountable to the rules the ministers are under, you as a member are under no obligation to follow the same rules that the ministers and wives adhere to.
#letthetruthprevail
DNA said:
Good for you! You should feel good about working and earning money. You are a Proverbs 31 woman and there is nothing wrong with that. All the stupid rules that the ntcc enforces on it's members are entirely man made rules and they shift and change according to the needs of the ntcc leadership. After they had ruined many womens careers by telling them they couldn't work, and be married at the same time, they made an exception to policy rule for the overseas preacher's wives. Supposedly God told Davis that it was alright for them to have a job, but unless they fell under this exception to policy rule, they would all die and go to hell. Davis took people for complete idiots and we all went along with him for the ride.
The ntcc leaders are the ones responsible for the ultra high levels of hypocrisy in the ntcc. The ntcc is so full of hypocritical ministers and their holier than thou wives that you can see them coming from miles away. I think it's going to take the church members being responsible adults and standing up to their hypocritical leaders to change the culture in the ntcc. The members of the ntcc actually have much more power than the leaders, they just don't know it. The ntcc operates everyday because of the large amounts of money extracted from the members. The church members in the ntcc could shut down their individual churches if they all got together and confronted the leadership of their local churches. All they got to do is tell them that they are not going to support their ntcc leaders unless they start teaching bible based doctrine. If people would call out the hypocrisy as they see it and hold their church leaders responsible, perhaps they could change the way things are done in the ntcc. It would take a revolution and a lot of people would have to wake up and turn their brains on and start thinking for themselves.
Bro. Ken said:
I told him don't bother me again about the book, it was not me, and I was not buying you anything. buy it your self, you can pretend to be a saint, but God see's right through you and Mike
DNA said:
Tanya is like poison laced candy and Mike isn't any better. They've lived out their whole ntcc lives with everything handed to them on a silver platter. People follow them around like little dogs that have no other purpose but to bite and yap at people who look at them funny. God bless you sir, God bless you maam. Tanya grew up as a little hypocrite that always got her way. The rules never applied to her or Grant. Jude describes the entire Kekel clan. "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots; Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever." Jude vs 12-13
Not only are the Kekels guilty of supporting Davis's false doctrines, they have deprived many who would enter the Kingdom of God, from entering. They themselves are not entering and in their bitterness and phoniness they won't allow you to either. If you are in the ntcc, you are following the Kekels. The Kekels are not Christian people. They are double standard hypocrites that expect you to live one way while they live in the lap of luxury acting like they are above you. You enable them to be rich hypocrites and to live way above reasonable means by supporting them with your tithe and offering. Your families suffer while the Kekels get rich. This is not Godly behavior it is ungodly greed and everyone in the ntcc supports the Kekels directly with their offerings. The Kekels are just beginning. If you let them they will become as rich or richer than Creflow Dollar or Keneth Copeland. But in order for that to happen, you have to keep bringing out tithe paying suckers and fill your churches with brainwashed minions. It's up to you, how rich the Kekels become. If you are willing to continue to support their lust and greed for money, they'll take your future and the future of thousands of others away from them all under the guise of collecting for the work of Gawd. If people would take a realistic look at what they had when they began in the ntcc, and what the Kekels had, and compare it to what they have now and what the Kekels have now, perhaps they'd see the scam and look at the Kekels for the money grubbing hypocrites that they are. Why do you continue to support the leader of a non profit organization that is using your gifts to obtain obscene amounts of wealth and riches?
Another time I asked: " so you mean to tell me that when I die God is gonna tell me you can't enter to Heaven because you wore makeup or you cut your hair?! Huh?
Wasn't it enough the blood that was shed?
Anonymous wrote:
Hahahahaha! You could have phrased it like: Jesus bore the sin of wearing makeup and working on the job when He was crucified! One of the Planners of the universe, The Son of God stepped out of eternity in the form of a mere man to shed His blood for women who wear pants. Talk about minimizing what Jesus did on the cross!
One time I asked a pastor why was it okay for Kekel's to work outside of the home and teach. He gave me some baseless reason, so I called him on it. In exasperation he yelled, " I don't care what she does YOU are not going to do it!" What did the Bible say about adding to scripture?
Bro. Ken said:
Tayna, remember, I even recall the song you said I wanted. It was My House is Full but My Fields are Empty.
DNA said:
That's almost too funny! She accused you of stealing a song about soul winning? All she ever did in regards to soul winning because she certainly never went soul winning. I could be wrong about that, but since we are on the subject, has anyone ever seen Tanya go soul winning one time in her life? Their house is full, but their hearts they are so empty....
My house is full, but my fields are empty
There are money and riches in the Kekel's mansion today,
Lot's of food on the table, but the homeless and poor are turned away,
There is singing and laughter, in their Mclaren on the way to the Mall,
But a hush calms the singing, as the Federal agents come to call,
Your mansion is full, but your taxes have all gone unpaid,
Will we find some pretty girls cleaning during a police raid?
It seems like all Mike wants is your tithe and your tail,
But no one wants the Kekel's to go to jail,
No one wants to be hauled off to jail.
Push away from the table,
help us find more tithe paying fools,
Just beyond our house of plenty
Sits a double standard bible School.
It is full of brain washed suckers,
But the Christians, where are they?
They're in the healthy church,
Beyond the cult compound,
Teaching their members how to pray.
Mike and Tanya's Mansion is full, but their hearts, they are so empty,
Who can we get to clean our mansion today?
It seems we need some strong backs and some weak hearts,
And a bunch of tithing suckers willing to pay,
A bunch of tithing suckers that will pay.
Tanya liked the song by gay Lanny Wolfe. Hmm, how that computes.
DNA said:
"That's almost too funny! She accused you of stealing a song about soul winning? All she ever did in regards to soul winning because she certainly never went soul winning. I could be wrong about that, but since we are on the subject, has anyone ever seen Tanya go soul winning one time in her life?"
Julie says....
Well I remember one time Davis, Verna, and Tanya came to Texas this was before Tanya and Mike were married. Ralph, Joan, John and I were getting ready to go soul-winning. Tanya pipes up that she wanted to go with us because she wanted to know what it was all about since according to her she had never been. Davis told Ralph to take her. So she went with us. Ralph and Joan was going up the second door which had a huge flight up steps. John was asked to give a card to a couple across the street getting out of their car. Ralph asked Tanya to help me on the stairs to which she started wining about and calling me names. Finally Ralph just told her and I just to stay there. After a few doors she started really throwing a huge fit. (in my opinion if it had been the days of cell phones she would have been calling her dad) She thought we were going on the military base and was mad that all we were doing is going door to door to get people to come hear Davis. The thing was is that we had already been on the military base the day before and before they pulled into town that day so we were hitting some doors instead. She made such a scene we went home. She of course wined to her father about this. He told Ralph, after she told Ralph what she wanted, Ralph should have went to the base instead. Ralph went to leave for the base to pick up people fpr church that night and Tanya wanted to go. Ralph shared that he needed the room but Tanya got Davis to make Ralph to take her. So it was her, Ralph, and I that went it made him have to make extra trips to church and after church.
Well on this visit she was so rude. One of the nights she got mad at me because I asked her not to do something so she picked up this glass doll figurine that my grandpa had given me which ended up being the last time I saw him before he died. I said please put that down that is from my grandpa and it is very special to me. She looked at me and laughed dropping it on the ground. It shattered. She said I put it down like you said. I said I meant for you to set it down. She said you can't give one direction and expect people to know you meant another direction. Then she said you are so dumb it is funny.
This is just a few things that happened that visit.
Hugs,
Julie
I may be foggy on this, but I seem to recall that DeBlanc had a twin brother who was a cop of some kind, I think in Texas, and supposedly the reason he wouldn't commit to NTCC was that he didn't want to have to give up his law enforcement career.
Of all the hundreds of offerings I received, I was never able to bring myself to utter the "all Christians pay tithe" phrase. How could it be true? Even if tithing was obligatory, what if someone was born again and knew nothing of it? Did that make him not a Christian? I always wondered what would happen if I was called on to lead a service when RW was around, because I didn't plan on sending people to hell over the offering.
My feet have yet to be shod in wingtips, even once. I guess I was doomed from the beginning.
Julie, it sounds like your excursion with Tanya soul winning was a disaster. I guess that's why she sings about it and doesn't participate in it. Tanya and Mike remind me of Jesus speaking about children sitting in the Market place saying, "We have piped to you and ye have not danced". There is nothing that makes them happy unless they are causing others misery. You can never please them. They act like God put them on this planet for everyone to adore and worship. They act like they are entitled and that the world rotates around them. If you cause any type of ripple in the waves of their tranquility they will rain on your parade. I guess they got it made in the shade as long as the money keeps coming their way. I have this feeling that Kekel isn't smart enough to become the mega church multi millionaire that he wants to become. Right now it seems like his empire has taken quite a hit. I guess if he were to plunge the ntcc into compromise and keep the tithe or hell doctrine, he'd probably end up with more tithe paying suckers. But many of the old timers would most likely leave, which he probably isn't wanting to happen yet. Because of Davis, Mike and Tanya have an incredible amount of real estate and the net worth of the organization has got to be several hundred million. Most of it's paid off and a large chunk of it is sitting around in escrow funds accross the U.S. Who knows how much Kekel has ammassed in his own personal fortune. I'm sure he's worth several million in non-ntcc assets. If he ends up as filthy and disgustingly rich as Creflow Dollar or Kenneth Copeland, he might get audited but right now the ntcc is flying way under the Radar. The only organizations that are being looked into by the IRS as religious non profits are a few of the mega churches. Joel Olsteen's brother is a lawyer who defends mega churches and so far he has not lost a case defending these fraudulent money grubbing hypocrites.
Vic Johanson said...
I may be foggy on this, but I seem to recall that DeBlanc had a twin brother who was a cop of some kind, I think in Texas, and supposedly the reason he wouldn't commit to NTCC was that he didn't want to have to give up his law enforcement career.
DNA said:
Yes, his name was Donald and he was a police officer. He was found deceased in his residence with gun cleaning supplies and several Guns. I read that the police were investigating the incident due to his involvement as an undercover Narcotics officer which was a previous assignment, but to my knowledge they never made the findings of that investigation public.
Although his profession most likely excluded him from ntcc style salvation, he was probably better off without their influence in his life. My personal opinion is that people have a much better chance making it to heaven without running the ntcc salvation gauntlet and are better off finding a healthy church or being left alone to work things out with God. I think that Donald died doing what he was passionate about and in my opinion that is an honorable way to go. Such tragedies as this I'm sure the ntcc would point to as judgment from God until chance and death happen to one of their own, than it's considered graduation or promotion day. Looking at the surviving brother Ronald De Blanc's Facebook page I'm not sure he is still in the ntcc. He seems to be doing a lot of good for society as he is a drug abuse therapist and gives drug and alcohol counseling to high school kids. Usually this kind of thing is not encouraged in the ntcc.
I remember the deblancs, very nice people.
I also remember the time that rwd called them out at an afternoon conference teaching.
De Blanc had been sued by an officer at the military base for harrasment because de Blanc kept on trying to get her to church.
It was there where de Blancs brother was able to help him because the org didn't help him for being a knuckle head and leaving the lady alone if she didn't want to come to church just leave her alone.
Because of that incident rwd said the pastors were not to go soul winning at the base.
I think this was where the ntcc was under scrutiny by the military and rwd went to meet with some upper military people and he wooed them or so he said by being himself and getting one of them a country ham! I think this military guy was from North Carolina too.
But I remember rw saying that if de Blanc hadn't had a relative that was a lawyer to help him probably he would've done jail time.
So it was there in that conference where the servicemens home directors were not supposed to go on base for anything other than church related, like attending service if they had service on post.
Too bad for his brother passing away.
Is it me but does Tanya remind anyone else of Mary Antoinette?
"Let them eat cake"...
What a soulless human being.
Mike
Antoinette at least them eat cake... They want everything and you can eat your children for all they care.
My question is how in the world did the transition from a holiness church to whatever it is they have now without any saber rattling? I understand the board wants to remain on the board but how does a pastor who's preached this garbage for decades now tell his congregation "oh, nevermind"?
I'm not understanding how Kekel got away with it (and to some extent he didn't as many have left). Certainly I don't understand what Davis was doing during all of this.
Just wondering out loud
Anon: "certainly I don't understand what Davis was doing during all this"
He was basking in his riches!
He would comment from time to time that the church in graham didn't let him preach or let him stay there for long so he would go to St. Louis or Phoenix where he owned several houses.
What can he do or say? I don't think he cared at all about the org going worldly, as long as the people kept paying tithe and giving in offerings!
Just saying..
Anonymous said:
"So it was there in that conference where the servicemens home directors were not supposed to go on base for anything other than church related, like attending service if they had service on post."
DNA said:
Sounds like an overkill. Seems like every time someone made a mistake there would be a board meeting and a new rule would be made up to keep preachers out of trouble. If a preacher gets in trouble on post because of a female, let's keep him off post. What if the preacher got in trouble with a female in the grocery store, are they going to make a rule that preachers are no longer allowed to buy groceries? It's obvious that Davis didn't want to Jeapardize the stream of income he was getting from the military, so he had to make a far reaching overkill rule to make everyone's lives miserable. What an oxygen thief Davis was.
Mike said:
"Anonymous said...
Is it me but does Tanya remind anyone else of Mary Antoinette?
"Let them eat cake"...
What a soulless human being."
DNA said:
That about describes Tanya, with the exception that she will probably never be hauled off to prison and executed. Fallen religious hypocrites actually fair pretty well in the United States. Jim and Tammy Faye Bakkar were hypocrites just like Mike and Tanya and a lot like Marie Antionette they lived in the lap of luxury. The Bakers conned 160,000 people out of $7,000.00. That's basically what Mike and Tanya are doing on a different scale. Jim Bakker went to prison and was supposed to stay there for 45 years but ended up staying for only about 5 years. He's now back in the ministry making money off of a different group of suckers.
Anyonymous said:
"My question is how in the world did the transition from a holiness church to whatever it is they have now without any saber rattling? I understand the board wants to remain on the board but how does a pastor who's preached this garbage for decades now tell his congregation "oh, nevermind"?"
DNA said:
The best answer I can give to that come from the lyrics of a song by Casting Crowns:
It's a slow fade when you give yourself away
It's a slow fade when black and white have turned to gray
Thoughts invade, choices are made, a price will be paid
When you give yourself away
People never crumble in a day
It's a slow fade, it's a slow fade
I'm not saying that Holiness was biblical, because I think for the most part it was a hypocritical measuring stick to determine who was in and who wasn't. But over time people got worn down and lines became blurred. Holiness never applied to the ntcc leadership, but people never saw that. They thought because Davis preached it that he and his family lived it. Davis has never been a holiness Christian, but he has been a holiness preacher that never practiced what he preached. He couldn't even get his own rebellious Jezebel of a daughter to live holiness and she still doesn't. She is one of the most Lascivious people ever to step foot into an ntcc church.
The sad thing is that people really believed that without the outward appearance of holiness they would never make it to heaven. As holiness has desolved and decayed in the ntcc it seems like real salvation and Christianity are scarcely practiced by any of the so called holiness stand outs. Most of the ntcc doesn't care about the poor or the down trodden. They have no ministry to anyone that isn't capable of paying tithe. It's a slow fade. Davis and Kekel slowly zapped the joy and peace out of everyone's heart and now you are left with a bunch of burnt out ministers that are finding new ways to compromise every day. The ntcc is like a black whole that gobbles up planets and solar systems and every bright star that comes near it.
The ntcc built everything on the wrong foundation and called it holiness. They ignored their families and spent all their time and energy trying to please people like Davis and Kekel who are never satisfied. If people would build their lives on true Christianity, the Love of God, love one for another and spending quality time with their families they wouldn't be in the situation that people in the ntcc find themselves in. Most of them are too warn out to fight against the compromise and what is the point? At one time they thought that their salvation depended on their outward appearance and now they are looking for a way out of those standards, but they still want to keep their idols and pay tithe to their leaders as if their salvation depends on the Kekels being able to afford the next generation Mercedes or the ability to build a greater mansion. People slowly fade away and burn out on everything because none of it was real from the beginning.
Anonymous said:
"What can he do or say? I don't think he cared at all about the org going worldly, as long as the people kept paying tithe and giving in offerings!"
DNA said:
That about sums it up. If Davis really believed what he preached he would preach and live that way until his dying breath, but it was never about the holiness or separation from the world. Davis was one of the most worldly people you would ever meet. It was all about the tithe, all along.
When I remember going to the ntcc for the first time it was in St. Louis.
It was still the headquarters of the org.
I recall in those days the women would sit apart from the men!
Somebody said :" look at Tanya, she is the daughter of rw. She is wearing a new dress. Doesn't she look beautiful?"
She looked at me top to bottom with a disdain look about her and didn't even say anything to me, just sat down next to her mom.
That was the first impression I have about her and the board members . Looking people up and down to see if they measure up.
They were not friendly at all!
Probably they've changed their tactics since the younger generation is a touchy-feely sort.
Click here for video Slow Fade or copy and paste this URL:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=QASREBVDsLk
Anonymous said:
"That was the first impression I have about her and the board members . Looking people up and down to see if they measure up.
They were not friendly at all!"
DNA said:
I've heard others talk about how Tanya and other ntcc wives would look women over, up and down and then give that look of disgust as if they were appointed by God to size people up and decide weather or not they are worthy to be in their presence. If Tanya reminded me of anyone in the bible it would be Jezebel. Tanya and Verna make my stomach wretch when I think of how they treat others and how entitled they think they are. If you want to learn what God abhors and what Godly people should not pattern their lives after, take a close look at Verna and Tanya. If God wanted women to be like them you would have to take ever scripture about virtuous women and throw them away. About the only thing you can learn from those two is how not to be a Christian. You can go to her facebook or twitter page and she'll talk like she's a Christian. She'll go on and on about how great God's blessings are, but that's about all she does is run her mouth. Her actions are much louder and they speak volumes for what she actually stands for, or more appropriately, what she doesn't stand for. If you want to know how the bible wants women to live, look at Proverbs 31 and then look at how women who were around Jesus carried themselves and compare that to how Tanya acts like a spoiled child who shouldn't ever have to face any adversity. You can learn from Tanya. Not by listening to her speak or blabber on in a BS class, but by watching how she lives contrary to Jesus.
I understand the slow fade.
My problem is that these preachers, many who've been there forever, have seen the vasectomy rule come and go to their detriment. They've been beaten into submission over mixed marriages, TV, movies, and then all of a sudden the new guys kid is going to an expensive Catholic School? The Pastor in chief is going to blue grass concerts? Can someone be that brainwashed into just thinking that this is ok now? Couple that with the underage marriages, spousal abuse, high turnover, Senior pastors/board members leaving and on and on.
I can't believe that someone who's been there since the 80's/90's isn't scratching their head wondering what's going on. After scratching their heads they've got to be second guessing stuff.
Didn't a preacher just leave on another thread? When will Oliverez leave? When will Maholic leave? I just can't believe they'd stay through all of this.
What a terrible behavior Tanya Schmekel go to prison that's the best place for you and learn to apologize to people especially to Juli St. Clair.
Anonymous said:
"I can't believe that someone who's been there since the 80's/90's isn't scratching their head wondering what's going on. After scratching their heads they've got to be second guessing stuff."
DNA said:
I hear you, and I understand where you are coming from. I think you are right about them scratching their heads. I guess where the conflict really confronts them is how utterly hopeless their past has been and there is no easy way out. Nobody wants to throw away 30 years of their lives and by leaving the ntcc, you have to be willing to admit that you have wasted a large chunk of your life and willing to admit that you have been duped. It was hard enough for me to do as a brain washed church member after 13 years of servitude, but for someone who is in the ministry for decades, it's got to be difficult. I think in many cases they try to reason that they are going to do things differently and treat folks better. But all the reasoning in the world won't help your church members if the wrong person gets a hold of them. If you send them to bible school, it's like a small group of Water Buffalo trying to cross a river that is infested with 18 foot Crocodiles or Aligators. Unfortunately the bible school students don't have that great of an attrition rate and they get devoured quickly.
These long time preachers are either in between a rock and a hard place or they just have no conscience left after being part of such a corrupt organization for so long. I think there are a few sincere ones out there but they are no match for the seasoned religious hypocrites that are waiting for their weakened and wore down bodies to attempt to thrash their way out of their death grip. I know that sounds like a hopeless situation, but I wish people would understand that the transition to normalcy and the ability to be a successful minister or Christian is not determined by the ntcc hypocrites. People leave the organization beat down and in the state of hopelessness often because they believe the leadership who has constantly degraded them over the years and many have lost their own self confidence. You can do what you are doing in the ntcc better than you are doing it, if you get out of the bondage that limits you in the ntcc. I really believe that a person can be a better Christian or minister if they leave the influence of the ntcc leadership and enjoy the freedom and liberty that God want's people to have. People think being a Christian sucks because they look at organizations like the ntcc and try to practice their beliefs in a problematic environment that is not healthy for a Christian to grow and live in. It's like choosing to live in a doghouse when it's within your means to live in a nice house, in a nice neighborhood. You don't have to prove to anyone that you are capable of living in a doghouse, nobody cares, but in the ntcc, people live way below their capabilities so a select few can prosper.
You guys are idiots you have nothing better to do with your time....GET A LIFE because clearly you have no Idea what you are talking about...these are wonderful, loving people who are doing an awesome work I've been going there for years and they are nothing short but amazing, and giving people and if any of you really believe this garbage I feel sorry for you and your souls...but I guess wicked people like you need prayer too!
"You guys are idiots you have nothing better to do with your time"
I'm surprised this made it on the blog. I tend to think this person is just an ex member having some fun because it's clear someone wouldn't say "you have no idea..." when we all partook of this nonsense for years, decades.
In any case I will admit there are very kind, generous people that attend. Just wish they weren't funding Kekel's lifestyle.
Mike
With all due respect anonymous, please give real life examples of these loving amazing members: going out and feeding the homeless; dropping off groceries to those in need inside and outside of the church; give me real life examples of long time (5 years or more) members having unsaved, sinful family members (not children) over to their homes to stay a week or two on a vacation; real examples of families owning their own homes (not military); members paying for their girls to go to secular colleges; married women members having professional jobs (not minimal wage jobs); men in the ministry since the vasectomy rule still having more than one child? I could continue on but I will let you have an opportunity to reply.
Thank you, Joan B.
Anonymous said...
You guys are idiots
This comment is the perfect example of what a member of the ntcc thinks about anyone who disagrees with them publicly. They are so brainwashed that they will not even consider the hundreds of testimonies that we have compiled against them. They will reject anything that has negative connotations about their wonderful and Godly organization (sic), while they slander us for telling the truth. "These are wonderful and loving people who are doing an awesome work", they say and add that we are wicked for people for believing the truth. Well, the truth is the truth, and it doesn't matter what you try to cover it up with, it's still the truth.
For those of you who were just writing that it's hard to understand how people could be scratching thier heads since the 80's and 90's this is why. We don't call the ntcc a cult for no reason. They are very good at what they do. They manipulate people and control their minds. People like this person who left this comment do not think for themselves. They have been thoroughly convinced that ntcc doctrine and ntcc pastors are the only true voice on planet earth and they will not turn on their brains long enough to see the truth. I don't know about all of our readers, but I personally bought into this mentality hook, line and sinker. I was a big sucker fish for 13 years and absolutely believed in all of the ntcc pastors and leadership and would never even entertain the thought of them being wrong. That is what cults do. They get people to follow a man who they claim is really close to God. In this case that man was Davis. Most of the people who are still in the ntcc are under his spell even though he is dead. He was much more believable than Kekel will ever be, so the only way Kekel will ever accomplish anything near what Davis accomplished is on Davis's coat tail and he'll have to compromise and bring in a new generation of brainwashed numbskulls to follow him and pay their tithe.
Anonymous said...
You guys are idiots
We found this comment that was just left this morning on the thread where John St. Clair, or someone claiming to be him, wrote us an email and we published it. We had no reason to believe that it was anyone other than John, but the fact is that this particular blog post made a lot of people really furious. X-ers were saying, you can't publish this because it's probably the ntcc baiting us. We got everything from hate mail, to people calling Julie names that only a sexual abuser would call a sex abuse victim, many of which we didn't publish. People wrote in and said there is no way that all these ministers could have done this. But the fact was that whoever wrote this letter knew specific details that Julie had never shared publicly. Julie said that the only possible one's that had this knowledge was her Brother John, her Mother Joan and John's wife. Johns wife became aware of the abuse that Julie went through and started writing things on Facebook to folks that we know and also on her page. She was mad about some of the things that Julie went through and confronted Joan who admitted that the sexual abuse that Ralph was accused of actually happened and that Ralph lost his minister's license because of it. Julie's gut feeling was that John was the author of the letter but she thought Carly might have penned it down. If you look at the letter that was written, there is no reason that the ntcc leadership would write it because it implicates most of the board members in sexual abuse of an underage child. The author of the letter says that while Julie was telling the truth and mentions instances and names of people who abused her, they also said that they thought that Julie should not go public. We also have other inside information that is private in nature that leads us to believe that this letter was authentic and it makes more sense that John wrote it, possibly with Carly's help, than it does that Joan would write it. Julie shared some extremely hurtful past experiences that we didn't publish and most likely never will. What we published was bad enough but we think that Julie did the right thing and that keeping all of this secret would have enabled guilty ntcc board members and ministers to get away with such things. Julie's ex husband Donny also wrote to us using very abusive language to describe Julie. We won't repeat what Donny said but someone with his same writing style came on our blog anonymously and said some very degrading things about Julie and verified that certain things she said were true.
We look at Julie as an adult with a disability that had her childhood taken away by some very sick people. We also know from her past personal testimony that we haven't published that she is very honest and the things she shared with us that would have been equally hard for others to believe, turned out to be 100% true. Julie shared with us something that happened to her outside of the ntcc that was equally as disturbing and many people would have said, There is no way this could have all happened to this girl, but we verified it and it did happen. Julie was extremely brave to share publicly what she went through and it raises awareness in the ntcc and with potential future victims. When Julie came forward she was followed by others who also shared some pretty horrible things happen to them. If you believe any of it, you should believe all of it, because it fits a pattern that is still most likely going on and they hope that people will remain blind. It seems like many members and X-members want to put the victims on trial while giving a pass to people like Davis and Kekel and other who were guilty of abuse. This comment that was written earlier this morning gives a small insight into what the average member of the ntcc feels about our blog and anyone who speaks against their cult.
I can believe what small amount that Julie shared did happen. I personally never knew her but what I have read about her disabilities, growing up in NTCC and limited education, she is the type of person a predator hones in on. It is not her fault in any way, please don't get me wrong. She has had a wounded spirit because of NTCC and her home life. All you that want to pre judge her research victimology.
I too was severely abused growing up. I didn't have any disability, was active and popular in high school and college, I stayed away from wrong influences yet have been victimized many times. It took a therapist to explain why these sick s.o.b.'s honed in on me. They could see my wounded spirit in my actions and personality. Once I understood this I could then change my carriage and my speech and prevent predators from preying on me.
Julie is light years ahead of me by going public. She has an inner strength that many can only wish they had.
You are the idiot anonymous!
Apparently you didn't make it to the fall conference where all witnessed the type of leaders you are following!
The kekls arent the uber couple they try to portray. They are distant with each other and can't come close to being on one accord.
They are putting a front to keep this org going. Their mortal mortar is corrupt.
Olson should've cut his shenanigans off when kekel started acting like a bully.
When he started his preachin about how ministers are trying to get a piece of the cake now that rwd is dead,now I get it that he was directing this preaching to ashmore and those out there that want a title in the org .
He said that it doesn't matter who you know or who you are friends with, how big a congregation you have or how many years you've given to the org you don't have nothing because God already has established the order in the ntcc, even before rw death!
So you dupes and idiots go ahead and try hard to put on a good show because you will be ridiculed by wearing your stupid shirts with the church name you attend!
Kekel has the reigns of the org and there's nothing you can do about it!
Keep thinking that you are on their good graces because you are not, he already preached it to you but you are still trying to please a man and not God!
When he went on and on about how the churches have competitions about who gets more people on a Sunday morning, he told you that's stupid!
Yes, you are stupid, ministers in the ntcc for trying to get souls to church!
When he stopped preaching and started to berate the singers and the choir and the sound people for not being perfect like he is!
How many times did he stopped the music? One time? Two times? Three times? If you were there you would know and Olson let the child throw a tantrum.
Now, who's the idiot?
Anonymous said...
"I too was severely abused growing up."
DNA said:
We are really sorry that this happened to you. I think that people are unaware of how common this can be, and many don't see it as the horrible crime that it is because they have participated in the abuse or know someone guilty and have done nothing to help the victims. I think it helps Julie to know that she is not alone and everytime someone shares this kind of tragic thing it raises awareness. I personally find child molestation and rape of any woman to be the worst crimes on earth. When a child is forced into sexual situations it destroys them from the inside and takes their innocence away. Rape is usually violent in nature and is forced upon a victim against their will. This also has life long devastating effects and I think if you are a human being and it doesn't offend you, something is wrong. Our society allows and enables it to happen more than it should by not providing penalties that will discourage the predators to stop their behavior. I personally feel that a man that rapes a woman or molests a child should have their privates cut off and spend the rest of their lives in jail. If we had penalties like that, sick freaks that commit such crimes would think twice about committing those crimes and the world would be a much better and safer place. That's my opinion and if your's is different then I guess you all are lucky that I'm not making those decisions.
Don and Ange, the ones that called you idiots don't even seem to explain the full reason for calling you this. On the other hand they speak about NTCC being amazing and loving without even saying what makes them amazing or what they did that is so loving.
Anonymous said:
"Keep thinking that you are on their good graces because you are not, he already preached it to you but you are still trying to please a man and not God!"
DNA said:
Wow, good post Anonymous! Kekel's either going to drive this thing into the ground which is a good possibility, or some other hypocrite will try to salvage what is left. Kekel still has a lot of people in his Amen corner like the anonymous comment that said we were the idiots. Those are the types of people that have no substance to anything they say, but they make the ntcc world go around. Kekel is too stupid to maintain the gift that he was handed on a silver platter. He has no people skills and makes more enemies then friends. It's just not in his nature to accomplish what Davis was able to accomplish. Don't get me wrong, Kekel is every bit as evil as Davis was but Kekel does not have the character traits to get people motivated or enthusiastic about their participation in the necessary cult practices that got them to where they are at today. He tries to jack people up like Davis, but he lacks the respect that Davis required of his brainwashed subjects. Kekel hasn't done anything in his lifetime as a career religious hypocrite to warrant any respect and only a few Yes sir type idol worshipers even support him. I'm pretty sure he'll run it into the ground before he salvages anything. Olson or one of his flunkies will have to try to take the reigns but at that point it might be too late. The only reason this organization will survive is because of it's financial status that we gave it by tithing all those years and paying off most of their real estate debts. The ntcc is almost financially self sustaining because they have so much money coming in and everything is paid for. Most companies that go under sink because the leaders get too greedy and spend more than they have coming in. Davis was smart enough to pay off most of his debt and put everything in the Organizations name. Most of the home owners that live in the Bonco have signed over their homes to the ntcc, so that when they are moved or die, the ntcc can put someone else in that house and charge them what is equivalent to a 30 year mortgage, and believe me their are people standing in line to sign up for that. And we are the idiots?
Anonymous said:
"How many times did he stopped the music? One time? Two times? Three times? If you were there you would know and Olson let the child throw a tantrum.
Now, who's the idiot?"
DNA said:
That is what Kekel is all about. A narcissist always puts the blame on someone else and never shoulder's any of it himself. A conference is supposed to be an event in which people are motivated and encouraged to go out and set the world on fire. Now that conferences are no longer mandatory, who is going to want to attend them now? A few people might show up for the Volleyball and the Frisbee. Maybe a few will show up for the skits and workshops or to sing songs around the abiance of the Campfire. Don't be surprised if the Kekel's drive this whole thing into the ground.
Anonymous said...
Don and Ange, the ones that called you idiots don't even seem to explain the full reason for calling you this.
DNA said:
They never do. We are just supposed to accept it because they said it.
I went to this spring conference and it really opened my spouse's eyes. My spouse was bothered by Kekel's way in fall conference but spring conference sealed it. He was going on about speaking to anyone that was on the outside of NTCC. He said it was giving permission for sin to come in. He said some won't see before there is no going back.
He speaks against bloggers saying they are destroying their chances for heaven ever. He laughed then said some quit speak because there was still some conviction in their heart while others have just shut their hearts to God completely. One sister was all freaked out after church since she had been reading the blogs and talking to people outside of NTCC. She was worried her sin was unforgivable.
We left the beginning of this month. Praise the Lord he does answer prayer! Why do they worry so much about what people are doing outside of this group or what is being said on blogs? This I really don't get.
I'd like to know more about what happened at this past conference. I've already heard it was only half full.
Now it sounds like Dr.Kekel is being Mr.Davis at the conferences. If you know please share!!!
I still tend to think the author of us being all wicked idiots was just trying to stir the pot.
Mike
Back to the question, I think a salesman has little chance of making it to heaven. Some guy just tried selling me a vacuum and air filter system last night and I had to tell him no for 90 minutes so I could get my free camera.
I'm still waiting on my free vacation for listening to a 90 minute pitch about some time share.
I'm great at saying no and getting free stuff but man some of those sales guys are a little on the rough side.
Mike
Some people are troubled by the way Rev. Kekel is but feel to leave would be wrong in their loyalty to Pastor Davis since he is the one that put Rev. Kekel into power.
I Guess I'd like to know who is troubled. What does that mean? The board members? The pastors? The BS Students? The congregations?
I believe Kekel will run it into the ground and there will be a tidal wave he just can't control. I thought Ashmore would be too much to handle but somehow he's keeping it together (or is he?).
Maybe instead of a board member here and there leaving, there needs to be some well respected old timers who've had enough and start heading out the door en masse. It would appear we can't rely on one simple event like the Great Rev Ashmore leaving. The blogs appear more for healing than helping those escape so that seems to be off the table too.
Clearly I'm racking my brain harder than I need to. I just want this thing to cave so I can see Kekel ride off into the sunset with (money) no power over anyone. I want him awake at night and realizing he just ran a decades old org into the ground in just a few years. I want him to look at his son and tell him he'll have to get a real job as he will not get the opportunity to verbally abuse BS Students like papa bear.
Your days are coming to an end you putz!
Another thing Rev Kekel preached about was that people only should come to him for advice. His advice comes from God. He went on to say you have to be careful some people are giving advice that is not of God and will lead you straight to hell. He preached like God gave him control of people going to heaven.
ANON said, Another thing Rev Kekel preached about was that people only should come to him for advice.
You sound like you're in the know from very recent times. Is this true?
Mike
Kekel reads the blogs! Is he going to hell too?
I hope lorie , Kathy and John make it out of there.
After what they've said about the ashmores.
I can't imagine my family being disrespected in such a public way.
I don't care for the religious views of the ashmores but at least they're out of there!
And to think that it was rw who would pit the pastors to have this contests about who would get more people in their church and the winner would get a visit from him! Now mk is saying that that's stupid!
Anonymous said...
Kekel reads the blogs! Is he going to hell too?
DNA said:
Kekel will be the first to split hell wide open if he is telling others that they are wrong for reading the blogs. There are periods of time where not as many people visit our blog, but usually that only lasts a little while. I'm not sure if Kekel reads every comment or if he has someone do it for him, but he definitely knows what is going on and what is being said on this blog, and so does Ashmore. I notice the damage control procedures that they take and usually they backfire. If Kekel jacks folks up for reading the blogs, it only works for a few days and then we get a huge influx of folks visiting. Usually everything that Kekel does seems to backfire on him. Ashmore is a little smarter than Kekel. I noticed that the Mathew Meinecke videos and the Asmore videos have stopped. When we began to hammer the blood moon doctrine Ashmore had to put a stop to that nonsense. Ashmore wouldn't have put an end to it if it wasn't effecting his bottom line. I'm sure he tells people to stay off the blogs also. It's a funny thing because when he was in the ntcc he was doing the same thing. When he left the ntcc he started saying the exact same things that we were saying about the ntcc. However, he wouldn't address any of the issues we brought up and he never really changed much. Olson is much smarter than Kekel but he can not control Kekel because Davis left him the keys to the empire and enough rope to hang himself. Mike and Tanya are such hateful individuals that they are sure to be doing a whole lot of damage to the ntcc. We'll just have to see how things pan out. Historically the more Kekel tries to stop us, the more our message spreads like wild fire. People don't want to be slaves to an angry Narcissist for the rest of their lives. Usually when people are pushed far enough by the ntcc leaders they begin to see things the way they actually are and not the way that Kekel wants them to see things. Give Kekel enough rope and he'll hang himself. If he doesn't start eating some humble pie and attempt to treat people with human decency, a whole bunch of them will leave, and all of us X-ers will be here for them to help them sort things out, if they feel they need help. That is the way it has worked for folks in the past. The same ones that preach that we are going to hell, often begin to listen to us when it's their own hide being raked over the coals. We personally don't care how they come to the realization that they are in a cult, and we'd like for them to figure it out on their own with as little pain and misery as possible, but the transition always seems to be painful no matter which approach a person takes. We are here to help but often people confuse us as part of the problem. You can lead a horse to the water.....
Anonymous said...
I hope lorie , Kathy and John make it out of there.
DNA said:
What about poor ole George? I can't imagine the DeFrancescos leaving the organization because they know too much. I hear what you are saying about Kekel talking smack about the Ashmores and that's got to be hard for them to hear. You might be right. They might end up following their Mom and Step Dad out of the borg, but JD has been extremely loyal to Davis and Kekel over the years.
This conflict is becoming more public now that Davis is dead and Ashmore has left. People are starting to wake up areas of their brains that have been sleeping for years just to process Ashmore leaving the cult. You know people got to be thinking that if Ashmore left, they should be able to leave also. Is Ashmore any less of a man of God than Kekel? Maybe Kathy and George, John and Lorrie will all find their way out and if they do that will be another great big hit on the ntcc. Hopefully all this will cause the ordinary church member to see through the control and manipulation and they will escape from the unnecessary worthless lives they are leading in the ntcc.
I was thinking about a case I recently read about and it was about this woman that had left the church she was attending. Later on she found out that her former pastor had said very hurtful things about why she had left to people that asked why she had left the church. She sued him and won a diffamation suit against this former pastor. I wonder if Ashmore has any thoughts about this.
What about the ladies that have been hurt? Couldn't they seek any damages from the widow of Davis?
2 Cor 8:9 - "For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich."
2 Cor 6:4,10 "But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,......sorrowful, yet alway rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing all things.
How do those of you in the ntcc justify these scriptures. Jesus and Paul could have been rich, but they made themselves poor so that those they reached out to could have eternal riches. How do you ntcc'rs justify paying so much money so that Kekel can live in a million dollar mansion and drive around in a Quarter Million Dollar car? Could you see Jesus or Paul living like the Kekel's live? Seriously. Could you see Jesus or Paul living like Davis lived, minus the adultery? They were not here to get rich and neither should the Kekel's, Davis, Ashmore or any other preacher that really cares about the souls of the lost. People are not stupid. Cult members are brainwashed but eventually even they wake up. Why does the ntcc lose so many people? Out of all the people that have ever been invited out and stepped inside an ntcc church, how many are still with them? How many from 1969 when the organization started? Maybe 5 or 10? How about from the 70's, maybe 20,30 or 40 at the most? I would say that close to One Million people have gone to an ntcc church service or bible study since 1969, and how many are still in the organization? That includes every soul that has ever attended a civilian, military, or overseas ntcc church service or bible study in the past 46 years. If The ntcc is the last hope for man on planet earth and they can only keep 3,000 out of possibly one million souls, where are they going to get 10,000 times 10,000 to make it to heaven? If it's that difficult and the ntcc is so righteous and pure, how is anyone else supposed to make it to heaven. If the ntcc is the last move of God on earth and they can only get 3,000 souls out of 1,000,000 to stay in their cult, how is God going to find tens of millions to go to heaven? Even Davis said not all of you are going to heaven so if we use Davis's math there might only be a thousand of you ntcc church schlubs that will even make it in the rapture.
The ntcc is a cult, plain and simple. They try to scare people into heaven, but don't fear, it's not as impossible as they make it out to be. In fact if you were to unlearn all of the religious hubbub, (the chaotic cacophony caused by a crowd of people), that was taught to you by the ntcc and just live by the bible, you would not only increase your happiness and liberty, but you would find yourself free from man made doctrine and you would loose yourself from the burden of supporting a bunch of rich con men that are living high on the hog at your expense. Kekel is living good because of your sacrifices. He has lack of nothing. He's like a big sponge that soaks up all of your money, but he gives nothing useful to help you on your path to heaven. You ntcc'rs need to start believing in the scriptures that teach plainly against so called ministers of light supposing that gain is godliness. These things are not written for you to ignore. If you are a bible believing Christian, why would you not study out giving and tithe for yourself instead of listening to a millionaire religious huckster telling you that you are going to die and go to hell for not paying tithe? He's getting rich off of people like you that are suckers. When you stop paying your tithe, he'll find another sucker to pay their tithe. All the while he is getting rich. Do you see anything alarming about this? People, read your bibles for crying out loud! Where do you see an example of people living like paupers so that a so called man of God can get filthy rich? You don't see it anywhere in the New Testament, unless you look at the examples of ungodly kings and Roman leaders. In the Old Testament David and Solomon were rich, but so was everyone that lived in Israel. Precious stones were as rocks on the roadways in Jerusalem.
The problem in the ntcc is that people believe everything they are told by their pastors because they have been convinced that these religious hucksters are actually the last hope of God on earth. God help us as a species if this is true. If Kekel is the last hope for mankind, I'd rather put my confidence and trust in a dog than to follow someone like Kekel. You guys in the ntcc that read this, got to help us out. We can't do anything to help you unless you start trying to help yourselves. If you don't study your bible to see if the truth is being preached than what good does it do to follow anyone? The ntcc, the Baptists, the Catholics, the Church of God and on and on. They all claim to believe in God's word, but unless you read it for yourself you'll follow any wind of doctrine. What is sad is that we can quote scriptures that expose Kekel for being a religious con man and hypocrite, but you will ignore those scriptures and continue to follow him and support him with money that should be going to your own churches and your own families and your own well being. Nobody ever comes on the blog and challenges what we are writing. They know there is truth that can't be disputed, but they are willing to be good cult members and they will not even entertain the bible it'self, because they would rather have others do their stinking thinking for them. It's really hard to help people like this.
Anonymous said:
"She sued him and won a diffamation suit against this former pastor. I wonder if Ashmore has any thoughts about this.
What about the ladies that have been hurt? Couldn't they seek any damages from the widow of Davis?"
DNA said,
People are scared of taking the ntcc to court and they don't really have enough money to fight a well funded church group like the ntcc. It would take a class action law suit to fight them and there would have to be well documented evidence against the ntcc to win such a lawsuit. Ashmore would never go to law against the ntcc and they wouldn't go to law against him, because they all have so many skeletons in their closet that nobody would win. The ntcc could have sued us a million times but they don't want to have people like Julie and Lisa and Ken testifying against them and bringing out all the dirt that they were involved in. When you are a non profit religious organization that gets millions in tax breaks, you don't want your organizations financial matters to be brought under public scrutiny, especially when the leaders of your organization are filthy rich and living more comfortable lifestyles than most politicians. When you are a filthy and corrupt leader of an organization that uses God to extract money out of hundreds of people that live below the poverty line and you use hell to scare them into doing such things, you don't want people exposing you for this in a court of law.
Ashmore is just as guilty as anyone in the ntcc, and he is not going to risk his little racket he has going in San Diego to be exposed for being a fraud either. He was a part of the ntcc for 40 years and equally responsible for the damage done to thousands of souls. It doesn't matter how great of a preacher he is, or if he is a walking bible. If he was a walking bible and knows so much about the word of God, why would he allow his associate Pastor Meinecke preach and teach end of times doctrine that uses the blood moon found in Rev. 6 and try to tie it in to present day signs and wonders? You don't even have to be a Theologian to know that's wrong. I'm sure Ashmore knows the bible 100 times better than I do, but what good does it do for anyone if he preaches false doctrine or allows false doctrine to be taught in his church? Many of us have probably read the bible from cover to cover a dozen times or more, but if we teach tithe or hell doctrine and people believe it and give it to their rich money grubbing pastor, what good are we?
To be honest with you, if the ntcc were to sue anyone, it would be a great opportunity for a person to file a counter lawsuit against them. They could try to sue me and Ange or Jeff, or Greg and Deb for defamation because of what we have written on our blogs, but it would be harder for them to prove than for us. We have actual witnesses to just about everything shared on our blog. Also a big thing to consider when a case like this goes to court is media involvement. Right now you couldn't get the media to cover all of the allegations that have come against the ntcc because they don't want to be sued. But once a case is filed in court, the media can start asking both sides questions and one a case is filed the media can report whatever they want without the risk of being sued, because things are already being tried before a court of law. The media very seldom gets involved in church affairs unless charges are brought forward. If the ntcc were to sue someone for Defamation or whatever, there would be a counter suit and included in that counter suit public information would be brought into the light about all the crooked financial practices of a organization that is supposed to be non-profit and attention would be drawn to the mansions that Kekel and Davis have owned, and allegations of sexual abuse by the scores would become public. In other words the ntcc is guilty and that is why they never will take us to court or anyone that can implicate them in what they are trying to cover up.
Kind of like when the leaders last year sweeped under rug the actions of one of the licensed ministers that had done sexual things to a couple kids. Thankfully someone took action and the man of God Is behind bars now.
"Kind of like when the leaders last year sweeped under rug the actions of one of the licensed ministers that had done sexual things to a couple kids. Thankfully someone took action and the man of God Is behind bars now."
Churches that hide sexual predators are a national epidemic! www.watchkeep.blogspot.com!
They're lucky they keep everyone broke or the lawsuits would probably start pouring in. I tend to think lawsuits are around the corner for Kekel and company.
Mike
Yes they didn't help the kids involved or their family. Then the wife whose husband went behind bars, received heavy to date another minister before she even divorced. This all was red flags for my husband and I. Wonder. how his kids felt about this.
Not everyone is called to be a preacher but they (ntcc preachers and some church members) will talk you into going. It seem like you are conned into going. I was really so much "talked" into going by my last pastor and when I told him one day I'm not called to go, he justified and said " I told pastor David I wasn't called to go, now look at me I love to preach". Preatty much still trying to urg me to go. Controll freak!
I was reading the watchkeep blogspot and one article led to another and this cult called "The Village Church" is definitely a manipulative cult that tries to cover up pedophiles and hide sexual abuse in addition to manipulating relationships and controlling marriages. The more I study cult victims the more I realize how important and rare it was for Julie to share her experiences. Most Sexual abuse victims are hushed by the church officials and their parents are threatened and scared to come forward and they have very few advocates. So often the victims are treated like criminals and things get brushed under the table. Most of the time it's all because some scum bag wants to protect his cult from public scrutiny. It's like they all read from the same textbook on how to avoid the legal consequences of sexual abuse. The first thing they do is downplay it all. They always try to discredit the victim. They ignore the predator and emphasize whatever weakness they can find in the victim. They look for anything that might suggest an inconsistency as to what the actual victim went through. They immediately shift all the blame off the church. It a miracle that Fontenot went to prison. He almost got out and came very close to not having to serve time. The thing about pedophiles is that they never stop being pedophiles. They will molest or rape again. People need to be ready to act when it happens. Go straight to the police and tell them who the ntcc pedophile is the next time one of their predators gets their filthy hands on your daughter or son. Let the police know that the pedophile that violated your child is being protected by a whole group of perverts who have a history of covering for the predators and hiding the pedophiles like Fontenot. Be ready for them the next time they rear their ugly heads and report them to the police, not to Olson or Kekel. They are the problem not the solution.
More bible for you ntcc'rs, I know you love it when we talk about bible verses because you are bible believing Christians and you love God's word so none of this shall offend you, right?
2 Cor 11:4 "For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him."
Apparently there was someone preaching another Jesus and they received another spirit and another gospel. How do you preach another Jesus? Well, you have to misrepresent the one who already exists. Why would anyone do that? How about for money? Would it be possible that there are people on this planet that would stoop so low as to use Jesus to get rich? Kekel does it. He misrepresents Jesus every time he gets behind the pulpit. He misrepresents Jesus when he teaches that others should give until it hurts and then he steps out from behind the pulpit and drives his car that is worth more than you make in a year to his mansion that is worth more than you will ever make in your lifetime. You say, God is blessing the Man of God. How come God didn't bless Paul with a Mansion and a bunch of filthy riches off of people who were struggling to get by? Because Kekel is preaching a different Jesus.
2 Cor 11:8-9 "I robbed other churches, taking wages of them, to do you service. And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself."
Paul unlike Kekel, kept himself from being burdensome to the Corinthians. He was chargeable to no man. Not Kekel. Kekel doesn't do anything for free. Kekel doesn't do anything for love. Kekel represents a different Jesus, one that is money hungry and never satisfied with what he has. Does this hurt your feelings, ntcc'rs? It should. You are being conned out of your money by Satan himself.
2 Cor 11:13-14 "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
Can I get some Amens? Can somebody shout, "Praise the Lord"? Hey this is the word of God which you ntcc'rs claim to believe and follow. Come on now, somebody shout hallelujah! Oh, I'm sorry, you can't shout and dance when you are giving your money to the devil. The ntcc used to preach about sinners giving their money to the devil, drinking that devil juice, Alcohol, and going swimming in that devil pool, lusting after one another, kind of like Grant Kekel was allowed to do while all of your young girls had to have written excuses to wear dresses to PE class and the boys had to have the same to wear pants instead of shorts to PE classes. It's getting pretty quiet, not too many Amens. All those people who were run off for breaking holiness standards will one day rise up in judgment against Kekel, Olson and Davis. All those tithe payers that were run off for missing one installment of tithe will rise up in judgment against hypocrites like Ashmore who are living high on the hog off of their congregations.
I can only add that it's incredible the carnage left behind after all is said and done.
Marriages, families, children, friends, moms, dads, sons, daughters, grandmas, grandfathers, etc. etc.
I mean broken forever, it's so horrible just to think about it!
Can God really be a part of all this?
That's the thing that strikes me hardest. There is misery everywhere in that church. No one is happy, just beaten down until they're happy to be beaten down. I looked at it as a badge of honor to get "Jacked up" by a pastor.
Soul winning felt like door to door sales, no fun!
Prayer meetings seemed obligatory after awhile, don't even remember praying much, no fun!
Church was like watching Hannity, same crap over and over, no fun!
The schedule was restrictive, couldn't leave for more than a day and a half with your family. NO FUN!
Just miserable. You could see it all around. Fatigue. Depression. Blah blah blah...
There has to be a better way to get something out of God/Church.
Mike
I've also commented before that it's just a matter of time before someone has had enough and will take matters into their own hands to a degree that is outside of the law. It's unfortunate because I truly liked some of the pastors. You can only get beat down so long before you come out swinging. I think the benefit of this blog and others is the chance to vent the wrongs that were committed by the org.
Will it be a church member? Or a pastor? Knowing my wife, if anyone ever touched my kids like what I've read on here it would be a race between her and I to Washington. Someone, somewhere has had enough and has nothing else to live for. Hopefully they find this Blog before they go crazy.
Mike
So this church is still controlling to the max in terms of schedule, but it would appear they've tried to make things more palatable by allowing some of the worldly things in such as TV/Movies and on and on... One would think that would cause some sort of spike in attendance. Does anyone know if this has caused attendance jumps or jump-offs?
Anonymous said:
"I mean broken forever, it's so horrible just to think about it!
Can God really be a part of all this?"
DNA said:
It really is and you have to see it that way or choose to remain brainwashed. The hardest thing for a person to do is unlearn all the teachings of condemnation that were heaped upon them for years. I don't see how God can be a part of all the pain and suffering in the ntcc. I personally think that if you are in the ntcc and looking for God you need to get as far away as possible in the opposite direction. You can't find love in the midst of all the hate. They try to mask their hate with a fake version of the gospel but they mix the message of the cross with greed and their own desire for power and notoriety. Any time you have to add to the message or take away from it, the message can't stand on it's own. The ntcc is divided against itself and that's why it can not stand. If it were not for millions they conned out of people to build their empire, it would already be driven into the ground by the likes of Kekel.
Mike said:
"There is misery everywhere in that church. No one is happy, just beaten down until they're happy to be beaten down."
DNA said:
That's it. What they have is a forced happiness. They are so into the repetition and regurgitation of the ntcc message that it reminds me of when the children of Israel were complaining about being in the Wilderness. God gave them Pheasants until they came out of their nostrils. The ntcc members are so sick of going through the same motions that they force themselves to endure the same dead song services, the same boring preachers yelling out the same catch phrases over and over. It's monotonous and it just zaps every ounce of joy out of those poor people. They complain about the same things and they live like they are under the law. There are people that would like to do something with the message but they are bound by the ntcc to do it their dead way and they spin their wheels never accomplishing anything.
Mike said:
"You can only get beat down so long before you come out swinging. I think the benefit of this blog and others is the chance to vent the wrongs that were committed by the org."
DNA said:
Maybe Kekel needs someone to pound his face in. I'm not suggesting that someone should but if you keep pushing people that are stressed out already, what do you expect to happen. A good beat down might do Kekel some good. If the right person got a hold of that coward and beat him up really good, and slammed him around a few times, maybe snapping a bone or two, maybe he'd run away back to Michigan and live out his days in exhile. Tanya might be harder to get rid of. The Kekels are the worst thing that ever happened to the ntcc. They do not have God's best interest in their hearts. They want your money, and you'll never be able to give them enough to satisfy their lust and greed for cash. They have done some pretty bad things and in a normal world where the people they trample on are not willing to be manipulated by the likes of him and Tanya, they would never make it a week without a beat down. I'm just being honest. Could you imagine Kekel walking up to someone in a bike gang and talking to them the way he talks to grown men under his ministry? He'd be walking around without any front teeth in his mouth the first time he got in someone's face. Could you imagine if he went into the workout room of professional Boxers or Wrestlers and got all belligerent with them? He'd have his nose completely relocate to the other side of his head.
Anonymous said:
"Does anyone know if this has caused attendance jumps or jump-offs?"
DNA said:
Not sure, but I would venture to say that the ntcc is dying, little by little. The only way Kekel could resurrect the ntcc would be to have a fire sale. Get rid of all the old timers and plunge the org. into total compromise. He'll probably have to do something like that because he's been given the keys to a Rolls Royce but he's driving it around like a Ford Pinto, and people are getting sick of it. Kekel is just not a leader. Nobody seems to respect him and he doesn't do anything to earn anyone's respect.
Pretty much every pastor in the ntcc is doing their own thing.
Although I recall somebody saying that they were looking into having some sort of cameras or video put into the. Churches owned by the ntcc so they could stay in touch of what the pastors are doing. I might be wrong but that's what I heard
You see, this just pisses me off. These Bastards!!! They don't deserve to live. I don't know what we can do but lawsuits can be very effective at destroying wealth and bankrupting organizations that do this sort of thing. If my children were touched in any way shape or form I'd have to race my wife to Graham to be the first to take out my rage.
Bless the children but DAMN these NTCC hypocrites!
Mike
I have a boy and two girls. I'm glad I left prior to having them. Right now I don't care how brainwashed you NTCCers are, I don't care if you feel persecuted and therefore justified in your beliefs... You have sick twisted leaders running your organization. Perverts and predators! If you keep attending this church than to hell with you! Wake up and smell the rancid order of the Davis/Kekel money scheme. Your children are at risk, don't you mothers care? Are you that far gone?
Mike
I want a current NTCCer to answer for this! How can you support this organization. Your Executive CEO, Chairman of the Universe is a complete hypocrite. There is simply too much testimony against his morality for him to be in a position of authority over a golden retriever let alone a church. You've got homosexuality and pedophilia running rampant. Child abuse, spousal abuse, and the list goes on.
If I hear "no church is perfect" one more time I might just vomit. You may have good intentions but your leaders don't. I used to be sympathetic to your plight but now I can't even feel sorry for you. Enjoy your soul winning while your pastor has his way with your children. MORONS!!!
Mike
What about the previous works this predator was under.
By what the anon. shared this is a licensed minister and he could have been sent to many different works to help and probably taught Sunday school, there might be more kids that were affected because usually there are, this needs to be told from the roof tops!
The above comment was published in spite of there being no evidence that this has happened. We have no way to confirm this unless the original person who wrote the comment shares the name of the ntcc minister who did this. We have two anonymous comments and nobody has named the Pastor that went to jail. In order for these comments to warrant any credibility there at least has to be a name involved or people will think that it's all being made up. We will leave this comment up long enough for someone to verify that it actually happened. I wouldn't be surprised either way. The public should be warned about this ntcc minister if he does exist and his name should be made public or it does no good to publish this story. We know that the ntcc has been guilty of hiding this kind of behavior in the past and as long as the names are kept secret they will continue to get away with it. If we give any credibility to this story without verifying any names than it takes credibility away from the true accounts that have identities. Because the ntcc is such a sleazy organization with a shady past, we will leave this comment up for a day or two so that if there are people out there that want to verify this, they can do so.
My personal opinion is that if this scumbag is in jail his name should be released to the public so that when he gets out of jail people can warn others about this predator. The ntcc loves it when people keep stuff like this preachers name a secret. That is a victory for them. I don't care if it wasn't supposed to be leaked out and another minister was involved. If one minister is trying to protect another minister's reputation than that makes both ministers scum bags in my book. If the Children were molested and it was brushed under the carpet by the ntcc, than it is also being brushed under the carpet by the person who reported it to this blog. I know it seems like you are helping, but in reality if you don't drop a name, it helps the ntcc cover up future instances similar to this one. People will point to this and say, "See, there is nothing to substantiate this claim so the other things reported on here must be false also". That's why the ntcc is a hiding place for sexual predators because they feel safe and secure being protected along with all their filthy secrets. That is also why we do give much more credibility to Julie and the others that have shared not only what happened to them, but they have given their names to make it credible. It's unfair to them to have to be scrutinized for every detail they have shared if anyone can come on here without a name or any supporting evidence and accuse others of sexual abuse.
We have made it clear on this blog that from here on out, we are not going to agree to hide these pedophiles and child molesters. We will keep the childrens names off the blog and the family's name but we will no longer protect any child abuser or molester in any way. If you tell us the name of the minister, it will be published on this blog for all to see and we will bring attention to him as we do to all the perverts who have been involved in such actions on this blog. In the past people have come to us with reports of sexual abuse and they have named people but asked us to not publish their testimonies. We reluctantly agreed but we found that hiding these secrets does nobody any good. The truth will eventually come out. I'm saying this so that you know that if you share something with us and you name a predator that is being protected and hidden by the ntcc, we will not agree to assist in hiding anyone from the truth. We will keep you anonymous, we will keep the family anonymous along with the children, but we will not keep the predator anonymous. Most likely people already know and if it's gone to court there is a public record. Protecting the identity of the pedophile does nothing but insure that there will be more future victims. That pedophile will get out of Jail and join another church that doesn't know his past and they will fail to do a back ground check on him and he will find a nice safe place to hide where he has full access to people's children and he will always, 100% of the time, go back to committing the same crimes. That's what happens when you enable a pedophile by keeping it secret. If you don't believe me do a study on pedophiles. Find out why they love to do their deeds in churches across America. You will find that most churches in America exist so that some preacher can get rich and that preacher would rather let a pedophile go unpunished than have to deal with the public having knowledge that it took place in his church during his/her watch. Do a google search on ministers who are sexual abusers and predators and find out why they feel so safe hiding in churches.
How did Reverend Olson get his Job? Just longevity? He blogs once a month if that, I've never heard him preach at conferences, I don't think he preaches or teaches at the BS. What does he do?
Mike,
I share your outrage. I really do, deep down inside I feel the same way. It's should be everyone's response. Everyone should be totally disturbed when they read stuff like this, but you might want to dial it down just a notch. We don't advocate actual physical violence towards the ntcc leadership. I know that what they do and what they get away with is pretty bad but we can't stoop to their level. You have a right to be offended and you should be if you have a heart, and I know you do. Keep the passion but choose your words wisely and try not to give them ammunition. We feel your pain and want you to know that it's okay to be mad. I'm sure many of us have been to the place where you are at right now. I've even said that it might do the world some good if someone would give Kekel a good beat down and there is a pretty good chance that at some point Kekel might end up at the wrong end of someone's shot gun like Davis did. Davis had to get out of town when that happened. We don't advocate this type of violence and don't even recommend it. We don't want anyone else getting hurt because of revenge or trying to take the law into their own hands. Seriously. To be honest, with all the school shootings and similar violent acts that happen in this world, I'm surprised that the ntcc isn't a huge target, but we don't wish that upon them. "Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord." Heb 12:19
Anonymous said...
How did Reverend Olson get his Job? Just longevity? He blogs once a month if that, I've never heard him preach at conferences, I don't think he preaches or teaches at the BS. What does he do?
DNA said:
Olson is the hype man. He's the one that says if Davis says the sky is green than the sky is green. He also tells the mothers of children who have been molested to go and find another church. So his job description can be summed up as hype man and cover up man. Oh and did we mention that he is a prophet? Well to be honest, he is a false prophet, because he once shared a prophesy in which he saw Davis ascending to heaven during the Rapture, and then he saw the board members following Davis in their ascension to heaven followed by all the church schlubs. This has to be a false prophesy which would make Olson a false prophet because if the Rapture did take place before Davis died, he sure didn't go, and neither did the rest of the board members or ntcc church members go. So either Olson is a False prophet or perhaps Davis never really died. Or maybe Davis comes back from the dead to lead the board members in rapture. But if that were the case Davis would have to first resurrect the Ram's Football stadium that was destroyed in which Davis himself prophesied that he seen Christians being fed to lions. That's the problem with liars and false prophets. Their stories never check out and their prophesies don't come to pass. Olson and Davis are outright liars and false prophets.
Speaking of False prophets, there are many out there. Ashmore allows his associate pastor, the false prophet Matthew Meinecke to teach "THE RETURN OF JESUS MAY BE ONLY MONTHS AWAY !" These are words spoken by the prophet himself on his own facebook page. Although no man knows when Jesus will return, it appears that the Blood Moon Prophet has the inside scoop, based of course on his non-biblical definition of a blood moon that unlike the biblical definition is accompanied by the sun being black. By the way, it looks like damage control has begun in the Ashmore camp because they are no longer making YouTube videos. Even Ashmore's more convincing videos have stopped being produced. They might try some reverse damage control by making one or two more videos to prove us wrong, but now that we've mentioned it, they probably wont. So predictable.
How about Ronny Denis? Did anyone know that he is also a false prophet? He told his members that the internet was the Mark of the beast. Nobody in the House of Prayer, (Den of thieves), is allowed onto the internet because being on the internet marks you somehow in cyberspace with 666 in your foreheads. Okay, I added the 666 in the forehead, because that's what a lot of end of times preachers believe. Denis is a false prophet just like Meinecke. According to his former members he taught that the internet was the mark of the beast.
So we got the blood moon prophet, Denis (The Mark of the Beast), Olson and Davis all being caught red handed telling outright lies. They are all false prophets because none of their prophesies have come true.
I am in agreement with DNA, this predator needs to be called out because most than likely this was not the first time. To those that posted, please confirm the authenticity of the info so that others be aware of such crime.
Brother Ken to the anonymous posters, I believe you have a duty to name the abusers, believe me it was not easy for me to do it. And with great pain it was hard for me to come out and say Johnny raped me at the Eiller St. dorm, I conceited him a great friend and brother, and I still do, we bonded like we knew each other all our life's, there was nothing we would not tell each other. I still have a pen holder he gave me from his machine shop job he had, it sits on my desk as I type, I wrote to him in prison today, there is a part of me that no matter how I feel, I still think that some how I played a part in his rape, and like I told him as much as I should be mad I'm not, the doctors tell me because we were close friends the victims often feels the way I do, but you people that want to call people out with out naming them only allow for this person to rape and molest again, and have victims like me, that live a life of torment, that it is our fault for the assault, I did tell Davis and nothing happened to him, and that is why I posted before if you ladies single or married, stop going to the leadership, or husbands if they take no action, against NTCC it is your body you take control and get the authorities involved. so you people please do the right thing, and bring these abusers to light, you will be saving a victim from being victimize twice, once from the physical attack, and then the mental guilt that fallows after.
This morning I went back and looked at all the comments written by Anonymous and Anonymous 2 regarding the allegations of an ntcc minister behind bars for sexually abusing children. After reading the original anonymous comment and one that came in shortly after there is no mention that the offender was even in the ntcc. Anonymous 2 is the only one who mentioned that the child molester was in the ntcc and then said that the story was leaked out by another minister and they left. I have no idea if this is true or not. There is not a single shred of evidence that it happened other than the hearsay from Anonymous 2.
Now this is an opinion driven forum and we allow pretty much anyone to comment about whatever is on their mind. From now on we are not going to post any comments that accuse people of sexual abuse without any names or supporting details. People can say that we are a TMZ blog or whatever they want. We are not the ones who reported this and we feel we are doing the responsible thing by taking it down. It is not fair to people like Julie and Ken and others who have come forward, given their names and spilled their guts about what happened to them. I'm going to have to go through and delete some of the comments that were written and in the future we are going to look at any allegations a little more closely. We gave this Anonymous 2 plenty of time to verify the details of the story but it appears that Anon 2 would rather protect the predators, (if there really are any), than to mention any names. In the future please don't bother commenting about specific allegations if you're interests are protecting known predators and child molesters. I know there are people who have wrongfully compared us to tabloids and such, and I don't really care because we are doing the best we can do on this blog. I've learned in life that all you can do is your best. People will find fault and that's okay, we live in a free society and everyone has their own opinions. We do try to give everyone a fair shake. We have had some brave souls come forward and share their experiences in the ntcc. I respect and admire each one of them. They have brought awareness to what really goes on in the ntcc and people have begun to wake up and take notice. I know that the blogs have lots of readers that are still in the ntcc and when the right opportunity comes along we hope they make their escape. We've been told by people who don't have blogs of their own that we ought to do this or that. Maybe we are a victim's blog, but I don't think that's a bad thing. We created this blog so people would have a safe haven to share their experiences of what they went through in the ntcc. The fact that we welcome people to share their experiences should be a good thing. Victims are victims. Most everyone that ever went to the ntcc was a victim of manipulation and mind control. We focus on the organization that creates the victims. For some, they would rather that we just cover the common topics that the ntcc puts everyone through, but for some reason they don't want us to speak of the really dark stuff that the ntcc has condoned over the years. Others want to focus on the victims themselves and try to tear them down. If we had any reason to believe they were lying, we wouldn't publish their testimonies. Why the big change in how we deal with such issues? It's really not a big change, we just think that if responsible people can own their comments and publish their names, so should anyone else who wants to share such things. After doing this for almost five years, we are tired of the secrets and feel that hiding names is the same as protecting abusers.
The only comments I deleted were the ones written by Anonymous 2. The first anonymous comment never accused anyone in the ntcc. If Anonymous 2 would like to clarify what was shared by identifying the ntcc pastor, they are welcome to do so. We don't mind people commenting as Anonymous, if fact the majority of those who leave comments do so anonymously. We also know that from past experiences that your comment could be true, but we feel it is not responsible and does nobody any good to publish it without some way to verify the details.
Bro. Ken said:
"so you people please do the right thing, and bring these abusers to light, you will be saving a victim from being victimize twice, once from the physical attack, and then the mental guilt that fallows after."
DNA said:
You did the right thing, Bro. Ken. It wasn't the easiest thing to do but when you do the right thing you don't have any regrets. I know this because I went through the same type of hell myself for quite a few years. Predators want you to blame yourself, and organizations like the ntcc creates predators. I have a lot of respect and learn from the way you feel about Johnny. I know there are people who don't understand that, but you have to do the right thing between you and God. Forgiving people is part of healing. I struggled with that idea for quite some time and finally gave it to God. How do you forgive someone who doesn't ask for forgiveness? How do you reconcile with those who don't acknowledge any wrong doing? These are questions I had to ponder during all those years that I blamed myself for what I went through. Looking back on it all, I did the right thing and so did you Bro. Ken. Don't ever blame yourself for what happened in the ntcc. The ntcc is an extremely unhealthy environment and people like Davis, Olson and Ashmore profited from our suffering while they created a culture of sexual abuse that was allowed to thrive. There were a lot of predators in the ntcc and for every victim that has come forward there are many who live in fear and will never be free from what they went through. All I can say is that if you are a victim of ntcc abuse, you don't have to carry that burden forever by yourself. I chose to let it go. I gave it to God and told my story on this blog and it has been read thousands of times. When I look back on things and I know that I did the right thing. If you want a clean conscience and you want to feel good inside, do what you think is right. Get some help. Talk to God. Seek Counseling or share on the blogs but don't let anyone beat you down for telling the truth. Don't allow people to put you on trial for doing the right thing or for do the best you know how to do.
The board of World Changers Church International — which also operates as Creflo Dollar Ministries — said in a statement that the ministry will now go ahead and buy a Gulfstream G650 jet anyway, “at a time, place and price of our choosing.”
“We wholeheartedly reject the notion that the ministry’s airplane project is an imposition on our community or that it somehow takes advantage of our people,” WCCI said in a lengthy statement. “We plan to acquire a Gulfstream G650 because it is the best, and it is a reflection of the level of excellence at which this organization chooses to operate.”
The Gulfstream G650 isn’t just any private jet. The billionaires lining up these luxury jets, which sell for upwards of $65 million each, are willing to put their names on a waiting list for years just for the pleasure. It is the “Holy Grail” of luxury private jets, Bloomberg once wrote. And now, televangelist Creflo Dollar’s ministry has announced that it will also buy a G650, a purchase the ministry says is “necessary” to spread God’s word.
I'll tone it down D/A,
I should have waited till some facts came out. I googled every thing I could and nothing came up concerning an NTCC preacher going to jail recently. This could be a planted story (I hate conspiracy theories) to make us all look like we're just jumping on them.
If this isn't a true story, or a story that relates to NTCC than I apologize.
Mike
There's been some activity going on with people within the ntcc.
Divorces, changing pastors, entire families that have gone who knows where, never to hear from again, unless you know somebody that will not make waves for you and ask.
I heard that the newer ministers aren't as stupid as the older people and specially the ones who have families.
Lots of them have returned to graham and have no desire to pastor a church and foot the bill to which I say good for them.
Anonymous said:
"And now, televangelist Creflo Dollar’s ministry has announced that it will also buy a G650, a purchase the ministry says is “necessary” to spread God’s word."
DNA said:
Now there is a con man at the top of his game. He's not even going to ask his congregation, he's going to tell them he needs a Gulf Stream G650 because it's necessary to spread the Gospel. Yeah right, I'm sure lots of souls are going to be won because of that Jet. That Jets only purpose is going to be to haul Creflo around the world on all expense paid vacations on the money that his brain wash suckers are willing to keep giving him. I'm sure that plenty of ntcc are looking at Creflo Dollar with bewilderment wondering how people could be so stupid. I bet ntcc preachers are even preaching against Creflo for his extravagance, but I'll tell you one person who is probably envying Creflo and that's Mike Kekel. He would love nothing more to be chauffeured around in such speed and luxury. The same preachers in the ntcc that are preaching against Creflo will probably be buying Kekel one in about ten years if they keep feeding his insatiable appetite. Davis was never satisfied and neither is Kekel. Kekel is like a swirling vortex that sucks up anything of value in it's path. He's not like a tornado that is a magnet for trailer parks, he actually sucks the money out of people's wallets and bank accounts. He'll keep conning you out of your money as long as you are stupid enough to let him. The organization is set up to drain each and every one of it's members as long as they can possibly stand it. Most people realize the damage within a decade or two and get out, others stay in their whole lives and provide a constant stream of income to Mike and Tanya and whoever they decide to keep on their payroll.
Anonymous said...
I'll tone it down D/A,
I should have waited till some facts came out.
DNA said:
No worries. I know exactly how you feel. These guys have a track record and they have created a very unsafe and unhealthy environment for children and families. It's okay to be mad, we just don't want your anger to be misconstrued as violent attentions to the ntcc leadership. It's not a sin to be angry when you hear of stuff like this. Jesus was angry with the religious hypocrites that used the temple to make merchandise. He flipped over the money changers tables and drove them out with a scourge of small chords. No wonder they wanted to crucify Jesus. He didn't put up with their garbage. I'm going to try to look at some of these comments a little harder so stuff like this doesn't get through. If it's real and can be verified that's one thing. I know people have said that we publish anything as long as there is dirt involved. Whatever. We do the best we can. It's not easy to sort out every single lie that comes through. Sometimes things come through that appear to be lies but they are true and other things that look like they are truth are lies. We can't seem to win either way. If we don't publish everything than they criticize us for controlling information and 'cherry picking' stories to publish and if we publish it and it turns out to be wrong than we are compared to the National Enquirer and the TMZ. Most of the individuals that make that comparison have written many inconsistent stories of their own on the blogs and if we wanted to we could show the world their hypocrisy. We are not here to fight among other X-members that disagree with us. Unfortunately there are a bunch of X-members of the ntcc that jumped on board the Ashmore Jesus Revival Ministries Boat without doing their homework. They don't apply the same standards to Ashmore as they do to the ntcc. They feel good about following Ashmore just because he is no longer in the ntcc. We wonder where is the repentance? He was every bit as involved as Davis and Kekel in profiting off of ntcc members and making their lives miserable. Does he not have to answer for anything?
Anonymous said:
"I heard that the newer ministers aren't as stupid as the older people and specially the ones who have families.
Lots of them have returned to graham and have no desire to pastor a church and foot the bill to which I say good for them."
DNA said:
I'm not sure if that makes them any less stupid. Riding a pew in Graham isn't the smartest thing to do with your life. I would say getting out of the ntcc and not sharing any of your money with them is the smartest thing to do. To me it would be insulting to sit through church service after church service and knocking on countless doors and have someone like Kekel belittling you time and time again. If any of the ntcc'rs were smart, they would gather intelligence from the inside. Record a church service, take pictures of their cars and any compromise you see. Send us a video of inside the bonco that we could make public so that people would see the lavish lifestyles of the rich hypocritical leaders of the ntcc and make good educated decisions not to join their cult. Someone should wear a wire or camera and go up to Kekel and ask him to show you where all the tithe money goes and get his response on camera. Take your tithe money and spend it on a miniature camera that you can hide and confront Kekel about why he is so rich while most of his members are struggling. I can promise you that Kekel would throw a huge temper tantrum and if you got that on tape and made a YouTube video for everyone to see, people would see his true colors displayed publicly and Kekel would lose some tithe payers. If you are thinking of leaving, you might as well go out with a bang! Get some of your money back through the satisfaction of treating Kekel like he treats everyone else.
Your comment about cameras reminded me of what somebody close to the davises when he was still alive.
They shared that he had cameras put on his mansions and he could access through his phone to see what was going on if he wasn't there.
I guess he was paranoid enough thinking that somebody might break in.
But returning to what you said about somebody secretly videotaping hopefully somebody has, you never know.
I was reading about how money has been misappropriated from churches and there's been many people that witnessed monies that were supposed to go to certain works and at the end it wasn't, this past conference there was a collection for the a ministers wife in the PI .
She's sick with cancer. I wondered how much are they really gonna give them.
There seems to be no accountability on the churches part. It's a sad situation.
Anonymous shared:
"They shared that he had cameras put on his mansions and he could access through his phone to see what was going on if he wasn't there.
I guess he was paranoid enough thinking that somebody might break in."
DNA said:
Davis didn't trust others because he couldn't be trusted. He broke confidence with many people who came to him with personal matters. He would use those personal 'sins' against the ones who sought his counsel. He also was paranoid about others taking pictures of him. He was allergic to cameras and always told people not to take pictures, it was rude. I'm not sure if there is an audio tape of Davis in existence. I've never heard one but he had phobias of any record of his preaching, or pictures of him. He knew that at some point people would call him out and a picture paints a thousand words. The only pictures he would want people to have were the ones he took professionally which put him and Verna in the best light with smiles on their faces in their Sunday best.
Gal 5:2-4 "Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace."
DNA said:
The law of Moses had been kept for quite some time prior to Jesus coming. I shared this scripture because even though it took the people during that period some time to transition from the law unto grace, and there were always a few outsiders that wanted to keep Christians bound under the law of Moses. "Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace". Tithe was part of the law also. Sacrifices and the feasts were all part of the law. People that preach that Christians are bound by Moses law to pay their tithe have fallen from Grace and need to keep the whole law. If you keep it in part, it does you no good, so you might as well go out and get circumcised and start offering sacrifices for your sins. Jesus does you no good. Even back in the early church nobody made the association with tithe being carried forward to the New Testament. Nobody was ever required to pay tithe in biblical history following the death of Christ. Don't seek for some ntcc preacher to place you under this sort of Old Testament bondage trying to keep the law of Moses. The next time payday rolls around you ought to by your pastor a sheep or a goat and tell him to go offer it up. It will do for him the same thing that tithe does for him; absolutely nothing. Your tithe dollars would do more good if you dropped them off at a homeless shelter than giving them to Kekel. Your tithe is not required in the New Testament and if anyone tells you that it is, they are false teachers. They are twisting scriptures because of their love for money. Tithe is not New Testament doctrine. Even if you want to make the stretch and say that it was God's commandment in the Old Testament you are still just as wrong and you are teaching false doctrine because there is not one place in the entire bible that you will find God requiring man to give 10% cash on every payday. If your pastor is preaching that, he is a false teacher and you are wasting your hard earned money getting Kekel rich. Why live under that kind of bondage when we have grace? What compels a man to go out and make up lies to collect large amounts of money so that it can be funneled up to Graham and make a hypocrite like Kekel filthy rich? What compels a man to follow such a person who would preach this? Because they have taken Old Testament scriptures out of the bible and twisted them to say something false, so that people would believe something false.
I have a question:
What are the works and bible college in the Philippines for?
For the longest time I knew the ntcc
Started them but what is the purpose for them being there.
Are works started by the people that graduate the bible school?
I mean, there should be many Filipino pastors by now or a big congregation since they've been there for decades.
Hopefully the minister's wife that is ill will get to come to the states.
The "I heard" comments are pure gossip. They make us all look bad. If Davis didn't have camera's installed in his house, well, that's one more thing they can point to.
Put your name down if you've heard/seen stuff. Otherwise knock it off.
Mike
I am interested in preachers who return to Graham to be pew sitters... Do they retain their status as a minister/helper?
Mike
There are audio recordings of RW--I have a copy of his "message" to the first graduating class: "Made by God," from "I will make you fishers of men." He sounded a lot more like a hick back then. I have some others too, but Darwin Durek has a big trove. In later years he became much more circumspect about recordings (like many cult leaders).
Mike, stop acting like &$*^%! I heard can be a first or second time account. Stop tripping over semantics.
Julie wrote:
"Another one of those questions popped in my head. While the leaders sat near by Joan St. Clair and I were sitting with the leaders' wives. I turned and asked Joan St. Clair if Davis had to pay tithe or did God not require him to do that since he was the Pastor over everyone? Verna Davis turned to me and sternly said The bible says that he doesn't have pay tithe."
Anonymity wrote:
I thought Davis said he paid tithe?
The average American makes 40,000 per year. Multiply this number by 25 working years. The average person must pay 100,000 in tithe for admission to heaven.
DnA, yes I have the early audio recordings, I had a recorder hooked into the pa system at ntcc. I used my recorder, and my tapes, mostly, so they are mine, so,'s ntcc never disputed this fact after 30+ years. I have many on real to reel. If someone wants to hear them, ask me.
I have a few of pop Gaylord. I was always recording with rws approval. I don't know what the future intent was. They are high quality audio. When I listen to them now I see them as so shallow in doctrine, and from RW, a bunch of cliches. Cloned from Og Mandigo.
Brother Ken It is interesting Brother D that you chose to use shallow in doctrine, If you go back and read the article from the Washington reporter in Graham on NTCC that is almost how the reporter thought of Mike K's preaching, they said he did a lot of screaming and Hollering, and his knowledge of the word was something to be desired for preaching, I guess the apple really did not fall far from tree, when it comes to the leadership preaching. I can remember every time Olson got up to preach, I was always looking out the window at Forest AV. asking God when will this man shut up. its bad enough he had the falls doctrine for practical theology, but when he stands at the pulpit to preach it. it was killing me to listen to him preach it.
Anonymous said...
I have a question:
What are the works and bible college in the Philippines for?
DNA said:
That is a good question. I'm not sure if I have a good answer to that. I know what you know and that is that they have had a bible college and several churches there for quite some time. I actually think that it's probably the closest thing you would find in the ntcc to true Christianity because the people there are dirt poor. Rev. Rodrigues and his wife have been there for quite some time and while they are ntcc lifers, I think they actually care about people. I know the ntcc in Graham probably gets their greasy paws on the small amount of tithe that is paid, but I would assume that the ntcc in the PI is separate from the rest of the ntcc in that it is left in the hands of people that are suited to do the work there. I would assume that the BS students in PI are not as completely brainwashed as the ones in Graham. There might be others that contribute to this blog that can tell you more. Most of what I wrote is my own opinion from my own observations and is very limited in substance but you can take it for what it's worth.
Anonymous said...
Mike, stop acting like &$*^%! I heard can be a first or second time account. Stop tripping over semantics.
Sure thing Jack.
My point is I just got done blasting NTCC over a sexual crime that may not have occurred because of an unverified comment.
Like everyone here, I'm sure false accusations are considered detestable. If they're true then we need more info first.
Mike said:
Put your name down if you've heard/seen stuff.
DNA said:
Most of the people who comment do so anonymously. The subject that this anonymous brought up is most likely true because it has been shared by others that Davis did have video surveillance around his mansion. People would go to his gate to seek counsel and Davis would be able to see who they were through a camera and decide if they were worthy enough to seek his counsel and in many cases they were never let in.
I know that you put your name on everything you post and that says a lot about you. I respect you for that and I'm sure others do too, because they know you from previous comments. I have absolutely no idea who the anonymous comment came from. They could be X-members or they could be trying to find their way out. I read their comment and they seem sincere enough. We have encouraged people to comment anonymously because we want people to contribute. We also appreciate what they add to this blog. There are many that contribute that don't want their name associated with a public forum such as this or they have personal reasons. Whatever the case may be, I'd say about 80% of those who participate are anonymous. The only anonymous comments that we have a problem with are the ones that come from the ntcc or those who sympathize with the ntcc and try to tear us or our contributors down. This happens a lot with people that share true accounts of embarrassing activities that implicate ntcc leaders in wrong doing. They come on our blog anonymously and try to tear those individuals down by discrediting them, but they have no substance to make their claims credible. Usually the ones they are after are people who have enough Character to own their own comments, but they try to use the blogs as a platform to tear them down. This happened a lot on FACTNET and Chiefs blog. Someone with a lot of credibility, like MDR or DS/GS would share something true that shed a lot of light on the ntcc and some anonymous punk who was to afraid to reveal themselves because their own masters in the ntcc have forbidden them, would come on the blogs and try attack them. They would get downright childish and call them names. You know, sticks and stones. Those are the only anonymous contributors we don't welcome.
Anonymous said:
"I heard can be a first or second time account."
DNA said:
This is true and we appreciate your participation on this blog. A lot of people feel that if it weren't for comments like yours, I wouldn't have a life, but that's not true. I am at a place right now where I have time to blog a lot and it's a passion to do so. We also spend a lot of time doing family things and we enjoy our time together away from the blog. We appreciate the topics you brought up and hope you will continue. Every little bit helps.
Anonymity wrote:
I thought Davis said he paid tithe?
The average American makes 40,000 per year. Multiply this number by 25 working years. The average person must pay 100,000 in tithe for admission to heaven.
DNA said:
I'm not sure if I ever heard Davis say that, but if he did, and it's true, all he does is take his money out of his right pocket and put it back into his left pocket. He had unfettered access to all of the ntcc funds and could dip into those funds whenever he wanted to. People paid cash for just about everything. If someone paid him tithe he could just pocket it and nobody would ever know. Davis was a liar and a con artist. He said he had two degrees but nobody has ever seen those degrees. All he ever taught and preached was plagiarized material from Hyles, Mandino, Dake and who knows who else. He had false dreams, visions and prophesies and taught false doctrine while getting rich doing so. For him to say he paid his tithe is like the a bank robber getting away with millions and then depositing some of it for safe keeping in the same bank.
Brother D. said:
"DnA, yes I have the early audio recordings, I had a recorder hooked into the pa system at ntcc. I used my recorder, and my tapes, mostly, so they are mine, so,'s ntcc never disputed this fact after 30+ years."
DNA said:
You ought to make YouTube videos of all the good stuff you have. Maybe someone would come after the ntcc or the widow Verna for her riches when they found that Davis was plagiarizing everyone elses materials. You could monetize the videos, I'm sure a lot of people would listen to the great orator spew out the wisdom of the ages. You can run pictures in the background of all the hypocritical board members, their mansions and real estate holdings while Davis bloviates that the reason none of you preachers have anything is because you don't save your money.
Man, I would have fun with those recordings. I would take the ones on tithe and use them to show people who have given over the years how their money was wasted and used to make Davis and Kekel rich. The most successful political strategies have been to use their own words against them. Bush would have never won the 04 election if it weren't for the PT boat captains coming out with the commercials that showed John Kerry protesting the war and testifying how he turned tail and ran from the battle. They came out two weeks before the election, if I remember right, and Kerry's popularity plummeted mainly because his own words and actions were made public. They tried to smear Bush with accusations that he avoided the draft but that didn't stick because Dan Rather got caught using proven forged documents to try to destroy Bush. I'm not a huge Bush fan but I felt like justice was served when Dan Rather's career was ended for his fabricated story.
If we could somehow do that in a way that many ntcc'rs could hear Davis's own words and actions in public perhaps people might find their way out of the ntcc bondage. It's one thing for a hundred or a thousand voices to speak out and warn others, but when you hear the words coming straight from the horse's mouth, it's more damaging than anything we could ever blog about. For instance if you could find an audio clip of Davis teaching that bodily exercise profits little and railing against others for wearing shorts and tight clothing while showing a picture of Grant playing Basketball and Football, or Tanya wearing her tight skirts and blouses. We have the media, pictures and videos. We could assemble some video clips of Davis blasting ministers loving a house or car more than God and show the outright hypocrisy to the world.
Vic said:
In later years he became much more circumspect about recordings (like many cult leaders).
DNA said:
I think in the beginning Davis wanted to be like A.A. Allen, Jimmy Swaggart and other fire and brimstone preachers. They all had records and other types of recordings that have found their way onto the internet. Jimmy Swaggart preached a few messages back in the early 70's that sounded much like Davis style preaching and those recordings have found their way on YouTube. Many have used Swaggarts recordings to draw attention to his hypocrisy yet he still is out there deceiving a few unstable souls. No where near as many as he had in the peak of his career as a religious huckster.
Bro. Ken said:
"it was killing me to listen to him preach it."
DNA said:
It was pretty telling when Bruce Smith was allowed to sit in on an ntcc church service and report on what Kekel preached about. Very shallow stuff. It was amazing to me that Kekel couldn't control himself for one church service. You would think that the one time that they would allow a reporter to sit in on a church service that Kekel would have enough common sense and enough brains to not say anything totally stupid. But fortunately for Bruce and all of his readers, Kekel couldn't help himself. He just had to share how that he observed filthy evil children in the grocery store throwing hissy fits. Don't get me wrong; Kekel is a complete idiot for sharing that in the first place, but to share that in front of a reporter who was there to show the public what you are all about, was just sheer stupidity. Kekel is about as shallow as they come. Olson is an oxygen thief. He just drones on and on saying the same things over and over.
"He just drones on and on saying the same things over and over"
That sums up a whole lot of preachers... "HELLO" (hand by the ear).
I think a lot of the turnover stems from the re run effect. Eventually you're no longer learning, serving god or anything else. It's just a routine from top to bottom and they hope you stay for as long as possible.
Even I had to stop watching Cheers and Law and Order, so too is the case with listening to the same crap for years at NTCC. Not only that but even pastors I liked would get negative for weeks on end. No joy, no happiness... Just homosexuals, hell, fornication, hell, movies, hell, not coming to 5 services, hell yada yada yada. Fine, I'm going to hell but first I'm going to watch Titanic and the Super Bowl.
Go Vikings
Mike
Brother Ken to anonymous the reason for the work in the Philippines, came about because Davis upon leaving there, had a fellow Philippine minister there that was his friend, and promised him he would come back and start a work there. I believe that is how I under stood him or can remember from the early 80's. that is also when he talked about wanting a compound, because they had one over there. and if he had one here, he could keep better control over the students, and monitor there coming and going. I would think Bro. D, or Bro Vic could shed more light on this, I was only there from 80-83 and again 86-to the beginning of 88.
Brother Ken, I remember you, good to hear you are doing well. What you said about Olson was interesting. Many things were simply test of our faith, to see if we could endure hardness as a good soldier. They loved to apply pressure to see what it would take to break you. What they never realized was people really were saved prior to the ntcc experience, and now, after it... we remain saved to their present consernation.
Mike said:
"No joy, no happiness... Just homosexuals, hell, fornication, hell, movies, hell, not coming to 5 services, hell yada yada yada. Fine, I'm going to hell but first I'm going to watch Titanic and the Super Bowl.
Go Vikings"
DNA said:
Why don't you tell us how you really feel? Just don't bet your soul on the Vikes and you should be alright. Actually A.P. is looking pretty good in practice according to the experts, he looks as good as he ever did. The Vikings should have a pretty good year, but not as good as the Broncos. But how could you possibly go to heaven if you are watching the Superbowl or Titanic? You need to be knocking on doors and soul snatching. Don't you know that by now? He that watcheth the devil vision shall not inherit the kingdom of God. That's straight out of the book of R-dub, who had a TV in his house, but was the only one spiritual enough to watch it without losing his salvation. Come on Mike, get with the program. What did you do, turn on your brain or something? You know that you can't make everyday decisions for yourself or your family, don't you? You need to run everything by your pastor so he can do all your thinking for you. Only then, will you be right with God. Only then and if you go to five church services a week. Only then and if you pay your tithe and give in offerings. Only then and if you go to bible school and obey your calling. Only then and if you produce money and numbers. Then all you have to do is obey and produce money and numbers, and get jacked up from time to time. Once you reach that plateau you can get caught going to whore houses and you'll be promoted. In fact you can sleep with anyone you want at that point as long as you don't get caught or have the police snooping around the organization HQ's.
Bro. Ken said:
"Davis upon leaving there, had a fellow Philippine minister there that was his friend, and promised him he would come back and start a work there."
DNA said:
His name was C.L. Barnes not to be confused with L.C. Barnes who took his congregation and left the ntcc starting his own group. C.L. Barnes was a missionary who Davis talked about quite a bit who died in a bus accident. There was also a Filipino Woman named Lena Limpert, who I think was contemporary with C.L. Barnes who they named a building after on the ntcc campus. Brother D. and Vic probably remember more about this subject. I still believe the Filipino churches have more sincere people and less interference from the HQ in Graham, even though they do enslave themselves to the man made 'holiness' doctrine.
CLBarnes left his wife destitue and peniless with children to raise. They thought that to have life insurance was a lack of faith in God. Actually, getting killed in a bus wreck seemed odd. They were in PGOG back then. Seems odd that now the rich folks in Graham named their library for a poor missionary, who died peniless. CLBarnes would blast those in charge of Graham, no doubt, if he came back today from the dead.
Yeah! I remember the quote that Barnes penned and rw took as his own:
I rather serve God sitting on a banana crate ........
The Philippines work happened after RW decided to go back there and check things out. He claimed to be too emotionally involved to make an impartial decision and supposedly the "board" decided for him, so he went back. I believe Ashmore and Whitekettle (RIP) went with him. There was a Filipino minister he used to know that he contacted; I can't remember his name, but think it started with an M. A few years later we were told that this minister embezzled money and property from NTCC and was sentenced to prison, but who knows what really happened. RW was acting all devastated about it, claiming that they were in process of thinking about maybe getting ready to someday finally open an orphanage over there, but now couldn't because of this setback. Well, it never happened in all the years since either. I think the "work" is just a ruse to make people think that there's a big worldwide outreach and to guilt people into making big pledges that never make it there, because if they had, by now there would be more to show after so many years. Maybe it was just to get wives for ministers, although that doesn't seem to have panned out either.
Ken, I remember what he said about the "compound" he described--the students lived there, and it was operated like some kind of boot camp. No one worked on jobs; they got up early every morning and did group calisthenics and then spent the day studying or going to preach at outstations. He said if he could afford it, he'd run the BS that way too (but of course he was depending on all the sweet cash we were sweating for out on those crappy jobs). Even then I shuddered at that thought.
I don't think Lena Limpert was Filipina; I think she was from St. Louis.
I remembered that Filipino minister's name (although the spelling might be off)--it's Montilia. RW showed us a newspaper clipping where he was sentenced.
Brother D. said:
CLBarnes left his wife destitute and penniless with children to raise.
DNA said:
That seems to be the case with just about everyone who dies in the ntcc. I remember many of the RW wannabes would preach, "I don't need life insurance, I have life Assurance! Then they die and their families have no choice but to be recycled into another match made relationship. Surely Mrs. Barnes could have used her skills as a house wife on her resume to provide for her family. It just doesn't work that way. Women give up way too much to become members of the ntcc. The ntcc is run much like human trafficking rings are run. They lie to people to get them in. They act like they love them. They promise them blessings and prosperity. They restrict their contact with family and friends. They control a person's identification documents; Don't ever let them take away your Driver's license. Women don't even get a minister's license anymore, so they have no proof that they have ever done anything in the ministry. Instead of Garnishing their wages like Human traffickers, they take away their wage making ability and make them slaves, (or housewives), if you want to call them that. Instead of threatening deportation, they threaten with eternity in hell. It's almost like the ntcc got their plan out of the Human Trafficker's Handbook.
Anonymous said...
Yeah! I remember the quote that Barnes penned and rw took as his own:
I rather serve God sitting on a banana crate ........
DNA said:
He probably would have been much better off sitting on a banana crate and minding his own business than he was meddling in the affairs of others.
Vic said:
"RW was acting all devastated about it, claiming that they were in process of thinking about maybe getting ready to someday finally open an orphanage over there, but now couldn't because of this setback."
DNA said:
I can't imagine Davis ever caring about 'sinner' children enough to open an orphanage. Any endeavor that cost money but didn't bring in anything was never in his agenda. Maybe someone else floated the idea and he talked about it, but I can't ever imagine any of the board members in the ntcc wanting to help children at their own expense. As far as Davis was concerned, children were condemned to hell before they could even understand the concept of heaven and hell.
I remember Tracy or someone saying that they were with Ashmore, I think, and she wanted to help or give to an orphanage and got blasted for wanting to spend any time or money with children when she could be giving her time and money to the ntcc. Ashmore said something like, "That's not what we do here". Pure religion and undefiled is not what is practiced in the ntcc. Visiting the Fatherless is nothing but a waste of time in the ntcc. Ashmore was more into creating the Fatherless than he was visiting them.
RW tried to recruit CL Barnes' son to the borg back in the early '80s. He had him preach at Holly Hills. Barnes' widow ended up at Ozark Bible Institute in Neosho, Missouri. It's a "holiness" Assemblies of God school.
I can't believe they preached against life insurance. You would think they would be for it, because 100% chance of death seems like a sure investment.
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