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| Another NTCC Wannabe is Stuck Sitting At the Kids' Table |
To sit at king kekel's table in the ntcc, you have to be invited and you have to be trusted. You don't have to be saved or sanctified, you don't have to be chosen or called by God and you don't have to live a Christian life. You just have to know how to play the game and how to conduct yourself around the ones who really matter in the ntcc. If you are not the type that want's to be invited into the dragon's lair, or if you are the type that likes to seek God's approval and not man's approval, you won't fit in. The ntcc and its top leader are one in the same. Davis was the ntcc. If you believe in the ntcc then you had to believe in Davis. You are either all in or you would not be included in that inner circle of one way trust and absolute loyalty and servitude to Davis. Kekel is now the absolute ruler in the ntcc. The bylaws define him as the final authority on everything that needs approval in the ntcc. The problem with this is that he is not as polished as Davis was when it came to motivating people to follow him without question. A lot of people don't even like Kekel and can't stand to be around him.
There are a whole lot of ministers and church members that are following the wrong king. They could be sitting at The King's table with Jesus at the head of the table; but instead they are willing to always be considered children by the ntcc leadership; and they will be treated that way for the rest of their lives. Instead of being heirs of God and Joint heirs with Christ and seated together with Him in heavenly places in Christ Jesus, they will always sit at the children's table asking their pastor-master, "Can I go to the bathroom, Pastor?" or "Can I fellowship with so and so?" or "Can I fix the leaking roof with money in the escrow that we have been collecting for years from the brethren that we have told that the purpose of the escrow was for unforeseen repairs and expansion?" "Can I have permission to speak, Pastor Kekel?" "I was thinking that perhaps I could visit my Mom and Dad on the way to conference. Do you think it would be okay if we cancelled Sunday night church service so I could stop by for two hours and say hi to my parents, before I continue to drive 16 hours through the night to make it to conference?" "Please, please, please, pastor-master?"
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| Even Children Know the Kids' table is for Kids only. Don't let some ntcc bully push you into subservience. Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, - Col 2:18 KJV here |
You have to experience freedom outside of the cult, before you can learn that you were meant for so much more than to be a slave to a bunch of People who only care about you when you pay them tithe. If they don't benefit financially from you, they don't want you around; and you definitely are not going to be welcome at their table. Their treasure is where their heart is at. I've got good news for you ntcc'rs that are tired of sitting at the children's table. There is a table set and prepared for you and you are always welcome. You don't have to pledge your loyalty to a bunch of double standard hypocrites that will stab you in the back in front of your friends. You don't have to join yourself to a group of people whose leaders dictate to you when and where you will spend every dime of "Gawd's" money. You don't have to have some growling and groaning manipulative creep overseeing and micromanaging your finances so they can take their wife out to the Space Needle for a $200 fine dining experience while you treat your family to a $6.99 Rotisserie chicken and wonder how you are going to feed them until your next check comes in. You are sitting at the wrong table if you are living like this.
A recent comment left by Anonymous:
"I remember the first time I gave a dollar to a bum, I felt liberated because like you said we had been taught not to waste our money and blah blah blah But I felt like George on Seinfeld when he started doing the opposite of what he would do and his life started changing for the better.
I know this will sound weird to some because they might not know what I'm referring to about Seinfeld. A little thing like giving a dollar to that beggar was life changing for me. I remember the man was so thankful and it touched my heart because he said God bless you and I knew that he was sincere And meant what he said."
I believe the person who left this comment has found the key to a successful transition from being a cult member to being a decent Christian human being. It's actually a way to simplify things in your life and if people would follow this example they might find that Christianity is not as difficult as the ntcc made it out to be. Just do the opposite. I don't mean do the opposite of everything they taught but be the opposite of what they were and what they stood for. Instead of being a double standard hypocrite, try being an honest person. Instead of paying your tithe to some grumbling and murmuring preacher who pesters you every payday, and then sends a large portion of it to the rich people who are sitting at king kekel's table, try calling up the volunteer workers at a homeless shelter and ask what those people have need of and buy some of the things they have need of. You will find that kind of giving much more satisfying and fulfilling than giving ten percent of your income to an organization that has lied to you since its conception about tithe. Wake up and read the scriptures for yourself. Don't believe us, or the ntcc. Get your nose in the book and find out what God says about tithe. Stop wasting your money and your life. You deserve better and so do the people you love and care for. Your family deserves better and so do you.
The Chronicles of Narnia The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe Coronation on YouTube
And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus: - Eph 2:6 KJV
And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. - Rev 1:6 KJV
129 comments:
Scripture of the Day:
Mathew 20:25-28
"But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them.
But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister;
And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."
Mark 10:42-45
"But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them.
But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister:
And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all.
For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."
John 13:12-17
"So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you?
Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am.
If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet.
For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them."
Mathew 11:29
"Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls."
Mathew 18:3-4
"And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven."
These are scriptures that are ignored by your average ntcc pastor. Your average ntcc pastor thinks that he was put there to be worshiped and served. If the pastors in the ntcc were really following Christ according to His word, they would be shining their church members shoes instead of having them shine their own. They would be washing their church member's cars, Mowing their lawns helping them out with money for Gas to pick people up for church, helping them do things to make their lives easier instead of oppressing them and ordering them around like God appointed them to be a dictator over them.
I bet if ntcc Pastors would begin to ignore the ntcc teachings and start treating their members with love and respect and really minister to them in a way that would be helpful and compliment the teachings of Jesus, there would be much more spiritual growth. The ntcc minister should be thinking of ways to help his church members instead of how he can use them. Now there's a nobel concept. How about making life easier on the ones who are helping to make your ministry a success.
When Paul and Barnabas returned from Phenice and Samaria to Jerusalem they were declaring all the good things God had done among the Gentiles. And just when you think that you are done hearing from the hypocrites, some Pharisees had crept in among them and decided that they needed to make an issue out of the Gentiles not being circumcised according to the Law of Moses. The Apostles and the elders came together to consider the matter, and this is what happened. Acts 15:7-11
"And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they."
Imagine that. We are saved by the Grace of Jesus Christ, not by the Old Testament Laws of circumcision. I wondered what Peter would have said if the Pharisees brought up tithe, or any other Old Testament doctrine for that matter. Well the Apostles milled it over and later James ruled on the matter in the following way:
Acts 15:19-20
"Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood."
Basically the only laws brought over from the Old Testament that applied to the Gentiles were to abstain from things that defiled your body which was to be a temple. Idols, fornication, things strangled and from Blood.
Why are we always quoting scriptures and these ones in particular? Because the members of the ntcc by their own profession are bible believing Christians, but they are following doctrines that are no longer required to be followed. They are following hypocrites like these Pharisees that snuck in to spy out the liberty that the Gentiles had. They were literally checking out their privates to see if they had been circumcised. The Pharisees, (ntcc preachers), today are making up rules that at more strict and non-biblical and we are saying to you and to them, "Why tempt ye God to put a yoke on their necks which neither we or our Fathers were able to bear?"
Why do people find it necessary to subject themselves unto people whose only purpose is to find more ways to manipulate them and control them. Don't you realize that it's through grace that we are saved? Do you think that Jesus went through all that suffering and pain so that others could bring you into bondage and enforce Old Testament laws onto you? The OT law was written for the Jews who up until that time had rebelled against God and the Old Testament Law was never designed to purify or justify them. We all know this. Even in the ntcc they teach that the law was a school master and the sacrifices didn't erase sin, but pushed it back another year until Christ could make the ultimate sacrifice.
The Sacrifice that Christ made on the cross was for all of us, not just the Jews. If those ntcc preachers insist on piling doctrine and laws on your shoulders that nobody was able to bear in the Old Testament, you are still living in bondage and need to experience grace. Is grace a license to sin? No, but it's a license to receive forgiveness when you do sin, and in spite of what Davis said, every one of us will sin. Trying to work your way into heaven by subjecting yourselves to some Old Testament laws is not the purpose that Christ Laid down his life for. Giving your money and spending your energy so that a few preachers who think they are entitled is not why we have Grace and it's definitely not the reason Jesus shed His blood.
This may not have anything to do with the subject at hand but the picture of the table with kids and the adult guy reminded me how many times at the fellowship hall rwd would be sitting down and little by little ministers would try to get close to where he was and would pull the chairs one after the other where you couldn't really get by.
Rw would just be there not saying anything just looking at the ministers in silence.
At one point one of the ministers trying to sound intelligent or spiritual would ask for the millionth time: sir, how can I build a church?
That's hilarious... Total pastor worship... That's why this church will fall. No one can pull that same kind of trick. Kekel is a lame duck CEO and nobody cares about his opinion. They all know he slept his way to the top.
Anonymous said:
"Rw would just be there not saying anything just looking at the ministers in silence."
DNA said:
RWD always did as little as possible to get by. He very seldom practiced what he preached. If you were ever lucky enough to be graced by his presence in a prayer meeting, you would find him sitting in a chair with a blank stare on his face scowling at everyone who was trying to get in touch with God. Every once in a while he would croak out an "Oh Gawd", but what can you expect from a serial adulterer and a double standard hypocrite?
There were too many nights wasted in the Servicemen's Homes where we would sit for what seemed to be hours locked into a staring contest with R-Dub. Most people were too scared to ask him any questions because he would often reply in disgust and you would end up feeling like an idiot for asking. It only takes one of those learning experiences to wise up and keep your trap shut around RWD. Sitting in a room with R-Dub in the Servicemen's Home was often a waste of time. You could literally sit there for hours with nobody saying a word.
If I had it to do all over again, I would have a bunch of questions to ask him. If I could go back in time, knowing what I know now, I would ask him some direct questions about tithe. I would ask him to show me where in the New Testament does it say that we have to pay tithe or we will die and go to hell? I would also ask the old hypocrite how Ralph St. Clair lost his license for six months. I would ask him what he does with all the money we have given him over the years. I'm sure he'd get all indignant and start trying to use judgment as a shield of honor with threats of eternal damnation for asking him such questions.
Anonymous said:
"Kekel is a lame duck CEO and nobody cares about his opinion."
DNA said:
This is true for the most part. There are some mind numbed followers that will live or die at his command thinking that they will share in his power one day. I'm sure most of the ntcc thinks that Olson is still in charge because they won't take the time to read the bylaws and process them in their minds. Kekel might drive the whole thing into the ground before his prodigal sinner son returns to take it over.
Keep in mind, Kekel has an incredible amount of money and real estate in his control. That is a lot of power but most of that is paid off and Kekel doesn't seem to have the character or resolve to maintain the standards that Davis put in place. While this may cause a lot of the old timers to leave, it's much more appealing to new cult members if they don't have to keep the standards of Oat Meal Girl Holiness. As wholesome as that may seem, nobody wants to look and dress like it's Halloween 365 days a year. Davis and Ashmore could pull that off, but Kekel seems like he wants a bigger piece of the pie, so don't be surprised if you see Tanya wearing pants some day soon, or if you see dudes wearing shorts at the camp ground while they are playing volleyball. They are already compromising wearing make up foundation, wrinkle cream and jewelry. Many ntcc churches are no longer enforcing holiness to the same degree that R-Dub used to and if you don't believe me look at some of the ntcc ministers and minister's wives facebook pages. You find that God has changed His mind about many of the things that Davis used to put us in hell for. It's funny though, isn't it, that God will never change His mind about tithe in an ntcc church.
I don't know who will drive the org to the ground.
I was there in the conference when rw was mad about something because he yelled at the board members, it was sometimes hard to hear what he was preaching because the system they had was always messed up, they could never have the p. a system right but I think rw was talking about compromise and when he died.
But he yelled at them and said :
" I pray that God will destroy everything every building if you compromise when I'm dead and gone.
I rather have all this org gone."
It's not verbatim but the statement was made and all the people were silent because it was like a rebuke to somebody there.
"If you compromise..."
rw was the king of compromise!
Probably he was mad that he had been talked into embracing the www as the new medium to propagate the org. and with that came the past of all that has been said in the blogs about his character and the abuse etc.
It's been known that he openly talked about his grandson spiritual life.
Many have shared that rw said that his grandson needed to get saved.
Maybe it was just something he said to appease the people but we all know that the org has been compromising since God knows when.
Anonymous said:
"I pray that God will destroy everything every building if you compromise when I'm dead and gone.
I rather have all this org gone."
DNA said:
I believe RWD said that or something to that effect, because I've heard him preach and prophesy about the ntcc compromising after his death before. It always seemed like a really somber occasion when Davis spoke like that. Then there was the 30, 40 or 50 years after an organization rises up preaching holiness, I've heard all three versions, that after those 3, 4, or 5 decades the organization would always compromise.
We were stupid for believing that garbage for however many years we believed it, because it's all going out the window, and none of those who shouted Amen at R-dub's preaching are standing up for him now.
Anonymous said...
"If you compromise..."
rw was the king of compromise!
DNA said:
Davis was able to get away with it much better than Kekel. Kekel always exhibited a public double standard when it came to matters of compromise while Davis was private about his own compromise and nobody dared ask him.
Anonymous said:
"Many have shared that rw said that his grandson needed to get saved.
Maybe it was just something he said to appease the people but we all know that the org has been compromising since God knows when."
DNA said:
It turns out that Davis was the biggest hypocrite of them all. But Davis knew how to play people like a fiddle and how to use fear and judgement to keep them in their places. Davis was also a much more believable liar than Kekel was or is. Davis had a unique ability to deceive people without them knowing they were being deceived. Davis was also able to hide his many affairs and indecent sexual escapades for long enough to make a fortune off of his victims. If he ever did have a degree or any education at all it was in the field of psychology and specifically in the manipulation and mind control techniques used by cult leaders and dictators to influence people that he was as pure as the wind driven snow while we were all imperfect Christians always striving to obtain his approval, while he bled us dry of every resource that was valuable to him and then left us spiritually shipwrecked and stranded on an island of hopelessness. Never saw that coming, but now it's as plain as day. It's probably worse than those people who had their life savings tied up in Ponzi schemes or Enron stock, and losing it all at once, because at least those people didn't feel spiritually bankrupt and abandoned by God to the extent that they could never be comforted by the only people they considered to be friends after their lives were derailed.
How could Davis go unchallenged? I don't care how "Scary" he could be, if you knew he was sleeping around or had evidence of the like then how can you not get neck deep in someone's tail for that? I was scared of 1SG's/CSM's until they would get out of line professionally. Then I wouldn't take it.
Just a thought
"Just a thought" you asked a legitimate question. I'm not sure why people didn't bring those things to light when he was alive.
It boggles the mind how we acted and reacted while thinking we were the only ones saved!
It's sad really, to think that we were under such a spell.
Anonymous said...
How could Davis go unchallenged? I don't care how "Scary" he could be, if you knew he was sleeping around or had evidence of the like then how can you not get neck deep in someone's tail for that? I was scared of 1SG's/CSM's until they would get out of line professionally. Then I wouldn't take it.
DNA said:
Even though the Army is a type of dictatorship, they don't have anything on an ntcc dictatorship. In the Army you are getting paid to follow orders and most of the orders make sense. When the Army leadership gets out of line they often will be punished for their crimes. I'm not saying that they don't get away with anything, but the control they have over their assets, (meaning people), is less than what the ntcc has over it's people. You can call out a CSM or a 1SG if they are wrong, and you can even challenge them if they are doing something illegal. For example, one time I had Brigade CQ duties and the CSM told me that if his wife called to tell her that he wasn't in the building. He then told me that he was going to be in the building and walked away before I really had a chance to argue about it. After 5 or 6 pm all the calls are routed to the CQ desk and his wife called. I told her that her husband, the Brigade Command Sargent Major said to say that he was not in the building. I have no idea to this day why he wanted me to lie for him, but I never heard anything back from him either. He was wrong and he issued an order which was ethically wrong. What could he do?
In the ntcc, it's not like that. You don't get paid, but you pay them. If you refuse to obey, it doesn't matter if you are right or wrong. You don't have a voice. If you get jacked up in a church service you just have to take it. If you catch your pastor visiting a whore house or whatever, there are plenty of ntcc leaders who are just as dirty that will cover for them. It's happened over and over. If they were still alive you could ask the Morenos. Unfortunately Roland Moreno was so distraught over the whole ordeal of getting jacked up by Ashmore for outing Phil Kinson for having him take him to a whore house to retrieve his wallet that he blew his brains out after allegedly murdering his pregnant wife and his son. Ask Fontenot's Ex-wife when she tried to use the chain of command in the ntcc to tell them her husband had raped and molested his six year old girl. Olson told her to find another church. They let the perverted pedophile stay in the church and be around children while the wife and victimized child were run off. That's how sick, filthy and evil the ntcc leadership are. Many others were run off to cover up for people like Davis and Kekel who were guilty, but God forbid if you spoke up against them. In the ntcc that carries a spiritual death sentence.
The ntcc will put it's members in unethical situations where they have to decide who they are going to obey. In the ntcc there are many pressures and implications of eternal damnation. In the Army, what are they going to do if you catch them in the act of adultery, and confront them? Most likely they'll try to pay you off or talk you out of going up the chain of command. The worst thing that will happen to you is you might get reassigned, or they might investigate the situation. If there is an accusation of any type of sexual battery or rape or even adultery or fornication, these things are taken more seriously in the Armed Forces than ever. If a female soldier sleeps with someone in her chain of command that is a serious offense for the higher ranking individual and it doesn't matter if they are married or not.
Anonymous said:
"It boggles the mind how we acted and reacted while thinking we were the only ones saved!
It's sad really, to think that we were under such a spell."
DNA said:
That is the correct answer. We thought we were part of the only move of God on the face of the earth. We thought that if we left the ntcc and joined another church that we would be compromising. Why did we think this way? Because we were brainwashed by con artists that wanted to use us for our money and put an innocent face on their filthy organization to hide the things that were really going on. That's where the Holiness doctrine comes in. The world sees a group of people that wear dresses and suits, they don't curse, they don't drink, they don't smoke. It's easy to hide a bunch of ntcc perverted leaders who molest young girls. Most of the church members are saved and love God to start with so the ntcc leadership pedophiles can exploit the children of life long obedient members who have no will to fight back. Who would suspect anything amiss in a holiness organization where everyone is walking around saying, "God bless you Brother?"
We all thought that we were a part of something special and real. For most of us, salvation and Christianity were real. Where we got off track was believing the ntcc leadership that we could not survive as a Christian outside of the ntcc. That is perhaps the most egregious teaching in the ntcc and it messes everyone up because it makes them think that their salvation and Christianity hinges on staying in the ntcc. That is why we are here. It is our mission to tell folks that they can still be a Christian outside of the ntcc. Because we've all been brainwashed to believe otherwise, this seems to be the biggest struggle that people have when they leave the ntcc. When people leave they realize just like we did that the ntcc is a cult. It is a huge life changing transition to leave a cult and keep your salvation in tact. For me, I couldn't handle it. It took me 14 years of doing my own thing after I left the ntcc to realize that I could be a Christian without all of the ntcc false doctrines and man made rules for cult attending fools. Because of this, we encourage people to get out of the cult first and then worry about picking up the pieces and putting their lives back together. I know from my own experiences that I'd rather be a rot gut sinner, stone cold drunk and drug user that knows he's lost, than to be part of a cult that manipulates and uses people through mind control to con people out of their money and future. At least I'm in control of my life, not some self absorbed religious hypocritical loser in the ntcc.
The only one that I know that confronted rw about one thing was Reid, but it was about the kinson-Moreno stuff.
I don't think there's anything the pastors can do other than just leave.
The org has all the ministers in a tight clasp. Even if one would've confronted him, and probably there's some that did, what can they do, take their congregation and rent another store front?
That's what Barnes did. The church belonged to the org.
The ministers that have a fairly big congregation if they decide to do something they'll have to leave but that's all they can do because the org has the finances structured in such a way that even if they wanted to go they'll go empty handed with the congregation to start all over again.
Ashmore was a biggie but all he got was a building that he was renting.
At the conference was shared that the org was paying the rent for this building!
I don't know how ashmore talked them into this but that's about the jest of it.
Anonymous said...
The only one that I know that confronted rw about one thing was Reid, but it was about the kinson-Moreno stuff.
DNA said:
Reed tried to coexist for a while in the ntcc, but I don't blame him for eventually leaving. I believe the Reeds cared about folks, from the time I spent with them. Reed is one of the few that confronted Davis openly. Davis said some pretty hurtful things to the Reeds about a soldier that got killed overseas, who the Reeds considered to be like a son to them, and after that I think they knew their days in the organization were numbered. When Kekel got in the face of Matt's wife, and said, "What are you looking at"? that was all she wrote. I think Kekel should consider himself lucky that he didn't get at least a broken nose out of that deal.
Anonymous said:
"Even if one would've confronted him, and probably there's some that did, what can they do, take their congregation and rent another store front?"
DNA said:
That's the problem with the ntcc. It's set up so that the ministers will either make the leadership rich, or they will fail and have nothing to fall back on. Most of the ntcc ministers are barely squeaking by and leaving the ntcc with their congregations seems like an insurmountable task. Either you make money for the greedy few at the top or you fail miserably and become conference preaching material.
A lot of preachers in NTCC are really,really harsh to church members. Embarrass them in front of guests instead of pulling them aside, talk them into going to bible school even though they are not called, and don't even DARE call the pastor by his first name or you be treading on sacred ground and its like an "insult to them. And the list can go on.
Anonymous said:
"Embarrass them in front of guests instead of pulling them aside, talk them into going to bible school even though they are not called, and don't even DARE call the pastor by his first name or you be treading on sacred ground and its like an "insult to them."
DNA said:
That's very true, however if the tables are turned and you are the one being singled out by the uncontrollable enraged preaching hypocrite from behind the pulpit, and you get your 'feathers ruffled' it's because you are full of pride and can't take correction. Now we all are human and make our share of mistakes at time, but I would compare a spiritual pastor-member relationship to a Father-son relationship. If you are a parent and you whip your kid every time he or she does something wrong, and you never spend time with them, or you always look for the bad and do nothing to encourage them when they do the right thing, they are going to fail. Most of the ntcc Pastors treat their members like they are woeful sinners that have no business correcting their perfect church leaders. They lack human decency. They lack basic communication skills and they live by double standards. If you raise your children by double standards they are always going to find fault with you. Same thing with full grown church members or cult members. Even though they are brain washed to obey, they still no when they are loved and when they are being used.
If you want to get the most good out of a person, or if you want that person to reach their full potential, show them that you care about them and that you support them. Show them unconditional love. I don't care if it's a child, a soldier in the Army or a church member, if you create an environment for them to be successful and you encourage them and love them, they will have a much better chance at succeeding in life, or as a soldier or team member or as a Christian.
In the ntcc a church member is to a pastor as a slave is to a slave owner. You shut up unless you are asked to speak. You don't ever embarrass or humiliate them, but they can embarrass and humiliate you. If you don't like it, it's because you are filled with pride. You don't dare call them by their first name or you are on the same level as they are, and we all know that over-familiarity breedeth contention, right? It's funny how Jesus never preached that false doctrine. Jesus was called by his first name and the bible says that we are heirs with God and joint heirs with Christ. Jesus considered his disciples to be friends. The ones that are lifted up in pride are the ntcc pastors and leaders. They would crucify you if you called them by their first name in front of others because they are the ones with the problem, not you. They need to come down off of their high horses and start treating people right for a change before they all figure out that they are being used for their money and their willingness to knock on doors and hand out church cards. That's all you are to them is an ATM machine and a door knocker and advertising medium to the ntcc. Try just being a brother without all the con artistry and see where that gets you.
The problem with ntcc is they are caught up in fake holiness.real holiness confronts sin regardless of who is doing.
dr phil was talking about how rampant child molestation is in the amish communtiy. it was a mirror of ntcc of molesters being shuffled here and there. i hope all the victims file a civil suit against the org.
http://www.drphil.com/shows/show/2393
Jesus Rodrigues had a public confrontation in the church with RW once. I wasn't there, but he told me about it. He had grown a mustache, and RW told him to shave it off. He asked him to justify that biblically, and he couldn't do it so he got all blustery. Jesus remained calm, and RW just lost his composure. That's how he was. He was big and bad until confronted; then he couldn't handle it and lost his cool and acted stupid. Like the typical bully, he was really a coward. But he had us persuaded he was an apostle, so we didn't dare entertain any "evil" thoughts with the devil over a Pepsi.
"Embarrass them in front of guests instead of pulling them aside, talk them into going to bible school even though they are not called, and don't even DARE call the pastor by his first name or you be treading on sacred ground and its like an "insult to them.
one time in my life i would love to see a member embarrass an abusive minister.
I also notice favoritism at my old church I left from. The controlling pastor denied favoritism on the pulpit that he doesn't have favorites but in reality he did and still does as far as I see. And if a pastor prefers to be called rev. or pastor instead of their first name ok fine, but AT LEAST don't come at me like a bat out of he'll and treat me like I committed the abomination of desolation. By the way that's my comment above. I'm going to claim what I've seen and heard with my eyes and ears. And I've seen misconduct, arrogance, abuse of authority, favoritism, and preachers choosing single men a mate what they see fit for them. Pretty much controlling courtship.(how controlling). I'm soo upset I feel part of my life has been wasted.
Anonymous said,
"...rw was talking about compromise and when he died.
But he yelled at them and said :
" I pray that God will destroy everything every building if you compromise when I'm dead and gone.
I rather have all this org gone."
It's not verbatim but the statement was made ..."
Don and Ange say,
That's called the Sandcastle Syndrome. Build it up. Tear it down.
Anonymous said,
"How could Davis go unchallenged? I don't care how "Scary" he could be, if you knew he was sleeping around or had evidence of the like then how can you not get neck deep in someone's tail for that?"
Don and Ange say,
People knew davis was sleeping around; because he went up and down the rows of students at Forest Ave. asking them one by one, "Would God call you to follow an adulterer?" and saying "God wouldn't send you to follow an adulterer." or words to that effect.
From this manipulative behavior, the students incorrectly inferred exactly what davis was implying. They thought it meant that davis must not be an adulterer.
But even though the premise was true, God would not send you to follow an adulterer, everyone interpreted and applied that maxim incorrectly. They extrapolated it to mean, Oh, God wouldn't send me to follow an adulterer, so davis must not be one. WRONG.
The correct interpretation is to take the true maxim verbatim: God would not send you to follow an adulterer. So don't follow davis, an adulterer; because God did not send you there for that!
It took some of us a long time to figure out the simple truth that God did not send us to follow that lecherous fraud named rodger wilson davis. Once you know that truth, you are free. Free from ntcc and the false man-made davis-doctrines. Free to worship God in Spirit and in Truth.
Actually, axiom would be a better word than maxim.
Anonymous said,
"And I've seen misconduct, arrogance, abuse of authority, favoritism, and preachers choosing single men a mate what they see fit for them. Pretty much controlling courtship.(how controlling). I'm soo upset I feel part of my life has been wasted."
Don and Ange say,
You should feel upset that some religious hypocrites took advantage of your sincere desire to draw close to God in order to make themselves rich.
It should upset Christians to see brothers, sisters, and those who don't know Christ being used, abused, misled, and toyed with just so some pervert who calls himself a preacher can make himself feel better about being a reprobate.
That's only normal to be upset at such things. Jesus was quite angry that the hypocrites who turned His father's house into a market place. God is angry with the wicked every day.
So, looking at these things, living through them, it's normal to get upset. But there is also a season for other things. After the grieving and the anger, the resignation, the acceptance, the proactive phase, there's always going to be another season. If you feel angry now, you are not alone and it's fine that you do. But don't worry. God will bring you through to a better season. He truly is a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief (Isa53:3) and we truly can trust Him, Casting all your care upon him; for he careth for you. (1 Pet 5:7 Right now it might seem rough. But God will bring you through to a better place.
I am thinking more and more that rw had the last laugh.
I could see him laughing and telling the pastors: if you don't like it, there's the door!
Pretty much that's what the pastors in the ntcc can do, and those that stay are like the little minions.
So sad.
Is there laughter in hell?
I was a female soldier with an excelIent tithe check and remember how I was "courted" by NTCC.
I attended a Soldier's Home. For the first 3-4 months when I was present, they never taught against TV, being friends and alone with opposite sex, I threw BBQ's at my house for the single male soldiers (there were no other single females), went running and biking alone with some and in groups with others, watched my TV with some, wore shorts and jeans, etc. The pastor was fully aware of everything. However, once the pastor knew I was in "for sure", I was taught about the jeans and shorts issues. Nothing more. I figured not wearing shorts or jeans around the brothers or at church was no big deal.
The pastor wanted my pay check so it wasn't until the day I married one of the soldiers (6 months after being there) that life changed for ever. The pastor knew he had me and all hell broke loose from the pulpit. The jacking up started and all the nonsense rules came rolling in. He taught the total female submission issue, no TV, no Christian rock music, "touch not my annointed" (because I would question the nonsence rules), etc.
I was saved and baptised in the Holy Spirit for years and attended very healthy churches prior to NTCC. Quickly (after marrying) I knew NTCC was all a crock of horse manure. I told my husband that NTCC was sending more people to hell than saving souls because the church was completely turning people off to God. I knew that many of those who left and never knew a healthy church or healthy Christianity would reject Christ. NTCC only taught hate and not the loving grace of Christ. I never heard an uplifting sermon once I was married.
I would get yelled at from the pulpit 'cause everytime the pastor quoted scripture I would open up my New American Standard Bible to the verses he was quoting. How dare I, "not trust pastor's reading of scripture". I refused to read the King James version because I don't speak 16th century English. Another contention with my ex hubby and pastor.
I have never believed (and show me otherwise in the Bible) that a woman is in submission to any man. That we couldn't wear pants, wear makeup, wear jewelry or cut our hair. I couldn't understand why the pastor had no historical understanding of the scriptures and took scriptures out of context. However, now I do understand after reading what is taught in Bible School.
I'm thankful that I knew what a healthy church was and the loving grace of Christ. If I knew what the "rules" were I would never would have stayed in NTCC even those first 3-4 months and would have never married one of it's members. I lasted in NTCC only ~1.5 years (because of my marriage) and I tried to stay with my husband but our marriage lasted less than a year. I knew that leaving NTCC meant divorce. My ex loved NTCC and the pastor more than me.
I also never bought into Davis being without sin, that he was a living apostle and that he would sit at the right hand of God. I also thought he was a complete donkey's behind. He never showed up until after I was married. When he was there, I felt he was trying to intimidate me.
He would sit up on that stage and glare at me. However, he sure loved my huge tithe check!
I have wondered if my being "courted" by NTCC was an exception or have other women soldiers been "courted" by NTCC also. I did see it happen to one other female soldier but she caught on just prior to marrying one of the members and she split- single.
Anonymous said:
"I attended a Soldier's Home. For the first 3-4 months when I was present, they never taught against TV, being friends and alone with opposite sex, I threw BBQ's at my house for the single male soldiers (there were no other single females), went running and biking alone with some and in groups with others, watched my TV with some, wore shorts and jeans, etc."
DNA said:
"It sounds like you had a pretty unique pastor in that he refrained from preaching against most of the man made rule for 6 months. I had 14 different pastors and most of them would have preached at you from day one. I'm sure the fact that you had a big tithe check had something to do with it. We had one preacher at Ft. Bragg names Beja who let people do just about anything they wanted. I don't think I ever heard him preach holiness one time. Most of the folks that were there before him left, but a lot of people started attending that would have never done so under the previous abusive jerk. He would go over to some of the single brother's houses and watch TV and movies like 'Faces of Death' where it shows graphic videos of people dying and animals being tortured, pretty edifying stuff. Things didn't go very well for him. Word got back to Davis, and the carriers of that word got jacked up for ratting him out but I believe this was Beja's last ministry.
You really were courted for your paycheck, and once they got you trapped by marriage then the true colors came out. Do you care to share who that pastor, (snake) was? Maybe others can relate or perhaps it might help new folks who read this blog stay clear of him. We are all about exposing the abusers on this blog, but we also respect your freedom to be who you are and to share what you want.
Anonymous said:
"I would get yelled at from the pulpit 'cause everytime the pastor quoted scripture I would open up my New American Standard Bible to the verses he was quoting. How dare I, "not trust pastor's reading of scripture".
DNA said:
That's definitely man made scripture and learned pastoral behavior straight from Davis the devil himself. We were all expected to show up to Sunday Service like a bunch of bible toting hypocrites but if you opened your bible to look at a scripture while the hypocrite was preaching, the whole topic of that sermon would turn into a blasting session and whoever was looking up scriptures would be singled out and humiliated in front of their friends, brothers and sisters.
Anonymous said:
"The pastor wanted my pay check so it wasn't until the day I married one of the soldiers (6 months after being there) that life changed for ever."
DNA said:
That is one of the main ways that they would get their hooks in you. That's one of the reasons that they would match make people. It sounds like you had a rogue pastor though, because usually Service women in the home were married off to ntcc helpers or sent to bible school to be match made by Davis. It sounds like your pastor had his own devious plot to get you trapped by getting you married, and after that, he could start spiritually abusing you.
What these pastors do is no different than physical abuse in many instances. Instead of leaving bumps, bruises and scars they leave emotional scars. They get off on the power they have over people and they abuse that power by abusing people. They are trained to do this in bible school. They see first hand, how their examples treat their wives and talk about them and they see in conferences how Davis demeans women. They want women to stay in their places in the ntcc, and that means that they are in absolute submission to that abusive jerk of a husband who calls himself a man of Gawd. What a joke. An ntcc pastor in most cases is nothing more than a woman and child abuser. They'll tell married people how to raise their children having never had a child of their own. They'll even spank your child for you if you'll let them. They are bullies and they hide behind their bully pulpits while they use God as a shield to treat people like stray cats and exploit them for their tithe checks.
Anon said:
"I also never bought into Davis being without sin, that he was a living apostle and that he would sit at the right hand of God".
First of all I can't tell you how proud I am of this young lady who was so perceptive. Good job! you passed that test with flying colors. Now, are you telling me that even in 2015 that ridiculous idea of R W Davis being one of the 24 Elders sitting at God's right hand is still in affect ???
To me, for the board members and top leadership to even allow this to be believed by these young preachers is a great sin in the eyes of God. It is a lie and to allow it to be propagated is not only believing a lie but being responsible for not guarding the hearts and minds of those young kids coming to bible
school. Where are they independent voices with a backbone that will stand up and sound the trumpet. To many mind numbed followers in NTCC. When I was in Galena Park TX pastoring a church in 1996 I had a helper that believed R W Davis and Olson and Kekel were representing the trinity here on earth. I could not get him to see the error of his way. He was locked in on that train of thought. WHERE IS THAT COMONG FROM? If this leadership does not want to incur the wrath of God they may want to squash this thinking ASAP!
Again, to that young lady who was sharp in her discernment, good job and praise God for His guiding you. Share your testimony far and wide.
He was Mike Marshall.
Marshall chastised me for marrying my ex. He did it several days after he married us! He knew we dated but waited till after we married to tell me that I should have went to him to find a husband. He said that my ex was not Bible School material. He even told me and my spouse that I was to be in charge of the finances. See I would always have an income and he knew it. I now wonder if Davis got on his case because Davis wanted me support one of his soon to be pastors.
They got it straight from the donkey's behind- Davis. My pastor was Mike Marshall in Tillicum, WA. Marshall taught at the Bible School. I could tell you stories that you wouldn't believe.
Barnes was there too and was the "evangelist" at the Soldier's Home. This was prior to him going over to Korea to "start a church" while still being on active duty Army. It was the late '80's.
Could you give me the first and last initials of your helper? My ex went south and believed the trinity thing. I don't know what he believes now so I want to respect his privacy.
Brother Ken for those who can remember the conference of 1980, Davis chose the board members on loyalty and obedience to him, he then went on to say for making them the board there appreciation to him was to make him the Ex-officio officer for life. after there vote, He made it clear that any board member that went against him would be removed, that is why the board did not challenge him, because they would lose there position.
Bryan, we're you ever taught the garbage that as a man your personal salvation depended on having your entire family in total submission? If not, on the day of judgement the husband would be cast into the lake of fire? Marshall taught it. That was the reason for so much verbal/physical spousal abuse. I never personally saw child abuse but I knew it occurred.
Anonymous said:
"This was prior to him going over to Korea to "start a church" while still being on active duty Army. It was the late '80's."
DNA said:
"I was with Barnes when he was in Korea. We got there about the same time and he got a chapel on post and we got a lot of people to come to church. At that time Barnes had his own way of doing things and it didn't conform to what the rest of the ntcc expected. Tom and Rachel Wright came to take over that church and were surprised that nobody raised their hands to open church service. There were a lot of tithe payers though. I got the impression that the Wrights didn't really care much for Barnes and Barnes felt a little under appreciated. I was pretty good at adapting back then and because I had extended and we had a Servicemen's home with 4 people living in it, the Wrights were dispatched to Korea so that they could take it over. Shortly before Barnes left, I was pressing my Uniform to go on leave and to conference. It was about 4 am and there was a huge explosion and people crying out in agony. A house had filled with Natural Gas because of a leak and it exploded into a huge ball of flames from a spark from a light switch. A soldier and his family roasted to death that morning in a manner of seconds. It made me think about hell and what it must feel like. We had been warned so many times about spending eternity in the lake of fire and that whole experience of hearing the children screaming added to the fears that were constantly being fed to us from ntcc pastors. I was tired of Korea and the way my chain of Command was treating me.
When I got home, I found out that my mom had cancer and I applied for a compassionate reassignment. The Wrights in Korea were telling me to come back that God wanted me there, while the Tieman's were telling me that God wanted me in Colorado. Davis told both Tom Wright and David Tieman that it was my decision. I was troubled back then because I thought that whatever decision I made, if it were wrong, souls would go to hell including mine. I'm glad that I chose Colorado, because I met my future wife. I was not as lucky as you, because she was forced to go to bible school and marry someone else. I had to wait 20 years until we were both out of the ntcc to marry her. It was worth the wait. Anyway, the home in Korea went under and the Wrights had to leave. The Tieman's turned out to be manipulators and Nichelle Tieman wasn't satisfied with her husband and was coming on to me all the time. I was afraid I was going to sleep with her and die and go to hell so I ratted her out to Rev. Gaylord and Davis flew in and removed the Tiemans. That's how sick the ntcc is. It's not a spiritual Christian place to learn about God and grow in His Grace. It's a place where a bunch of egotistical preachers who think they've obtained perfection take advantage of others and soak them for all they are worth. It's an unhealthy church and filled with all kinds of sexual abuse and inappropriate relationships.
That trinity Doctrine where Davis, Kekel and Olson represented the Father, Son and Holy Spirit is serious idolatry and I'm sure Davis and his flunkies reveled in it. Olson was always hyping up Davis as if he were God. These sick religious hypocrites were on the opposite side of God. They were about as far from God as a person can be and yet they made tons of money off of us and used people without caring about their spiritual, physical or emotional welfare.
Brother Ken said:
"Davis chose the board members on loyalty and obedience to him"
DNA said:
And that's about the only reason anyone got put on the board. If you were not loyal to Davis you wouldn't be a board member very long. He would shuffle people on and off the board like they were chess pieces in a losing battle. He would always imply that pride was the reason they would be removed, but when he wanted to lift someone up in pride he'd place them on the board and blow a trumpet before them. He was nothing but a sick narcissist and he died a lonely old and forsaken man. He left behind a tainted organization that practices deceit and lives by double standards still taking people for all their money.
A third party who we will not mention by name contacted Ashmore in reference to our letter to Ashmore blog post. The person who contacted Ashmore text him a copy of the entire letter and then spoke with him for about one hour on the phone. Ashmore says that this was the first time he read the letter and denies ever seeing it prior to him reading it in his text message. Speaking with someone else close to JRA we think that he had read it on our blog because he addressed the Moreno issue with this other person who is close to Ashmore. We also know he has read our blog extensively because we spoke with yet another person on the phone who says that Ashmore told a long time member of the organization that he was hurt that we published Julie's story that implicated him.
From his hour long conversation Ashmore spent most of his energy adamantly denying ever being involved with Julie. This is interesting because we personally have never accused Ashmore of doing anything to Julie. Julie mentioned Ashmore a couple times in her personal testimony as a perpetrator of abuse, but didn't give many details. She actually wrote to us and told us of an incident where she was sexually abused by Ashmore but we never published it and never accused him of anything. For someone who hasn't been accused directly of anything, he does seem to be afraid of Julie. In our letter to Ashmore we mentioned 3 other testimonies just as damning as Julies but he didn't feel like any of those were worth mentioning to the person who spoke with him. Ashmore felt like we were hammering him on Julies testimony but we have been extremely fair to Ashmore. We were even coerced by some of the regulars on our blog to publish this and up until now we have refrained.
While most of Ashmore's energy went towards denying having anything to do with Julie, he did mention a couple other topics. While not fully addressing the transparency issues Ashmore said that "HE WAS NOT IN ON THE FINANCIAL DEALINGS OF THE ORGANIZATION." We find this very hard to believe because Ashmore was listed as the Secretary and the Treasurer for several years. If he held these offices for any length of time he would know about the financial dealings of the ntcc. He also notorized stacks of documents to include real estate deeds and documents required to file for non profit status. For him to say he was not in on the Financial dealings of the ntcc is like Clinton saying, "I didn't have sex with that woman".
This alone tells me something that I already knew and that is that Ashmore is a liar. He also mentioned that he had to give up a monthly income when he left the ntcc, but didn't mention how much that was. He also said that had no place with them because of the way Kekel, Olson and Johnson were leading the church. One more thing he added was that he is renting a building, that is also used as a bridal center as well as a Catholic Church, and most of the expenses are paid out of his own pocket. Of Course he didn't mention how much he was paying to rent this building that is valued at close to 1.5 million Dollars and how it is that his pockets are so deep that he could afford to pay for "most of the expenses" out of his own pockets. I'm sure he wouldn't be accepting tithe from anyone seeing that there is no biblical foundation for people paying tithe. I know it's been shared that he inherited the house he lives in and possibly the estate included money. That's great. All the more reason to foot the expenses and not require his flock to be fleeced. I personally doubt they are not giving a substantial amount of money to the Ashmores, but since I do not know for sure, I will not make that accusation.
Folks, we are trying to be responsible and not naive or gullible. We know what we have seen for 40 years and we know what we personally have experienced. If it quacks like a duck than it's a duck. Period. When you have been burned as a cult member and you choose to look the other way, and deny the warning signs with Ashmore, you are living a double standard. If you are going to accept that Ashmore has repented without any outward show of humility or any confession of wrong doing over the past 40 years than you might as well have the same attitude towards Kekel, Johnson, Davis, Jones, Denis, Blumenthal, Marshall, Taylor or any other abusive minister that Lorded over you for so many years. While leaving the ntcc is a step in the right direction it doesn't absolve a person for all of the hurtful things they have done over the years. People have been hurt by Ashmore and all they want is some honesty and transparency. Everyone wants to forgive and forget when it comes to Ashmore just because he left the ntcc, but nobody has that same capacity to forgive and forget when it comes to people like Kekel and Olson and Davis. We are no respecter of cult leaders. We treat them all the same. Ashmore is not equivalent to some brainwashed preacher that got out after a few years in the ministry. People have been hurt by him and many have been hurt to such a degree that they have testified against him.
I heard Davis state that if he had a board member that wasn't going along, he'd get rid of that board member. Even then I was shocked to think that he would consciously surround himself with yes men. One time in AST he told us that there was a minister that he intended to elevate to the board "but then--he challenged me." I believe he was talking about Ralph St. Clair, although he didn't mention a name. I knew of an instance in which Ralph refused to back down, while he was pastor at Tillicum. It wasn't long after that RW told him to "pray" about going to Hinesville. Ralph said he'd pray about it, but RW told him no, pray now and tell me in a couple minutes (this was in church before a service, I was told). So Ralph caved and went into exile, because RW had already taught us that if he ever told us to pray about a certain place, God had already told him we were it. Ralph was full time at Tillicum, but at Hinesville he had to get a job as a janitor at Taco Bell just to survive. RW dogged him out and punished him for years, but Ralph lapped it up, and Joan was even worse. She was fierce about any criticism of the org. I'm sure Julie can attest.
Loyalty was the absolute litmus test in NTCC. RW himself used to say that there was a right way, a wrong way, and his way, and his way was the only acceptable one. We were supposed to believe the sky was green if he said so. Once he stated that if he told Jim Johnson to paint all the ceilings black, he expected immediate compliance without any questions or hesitation. We were being conditioned to accept his will as God's will, and it worked pretty well. Fortunately he was just into money, or there would have been plenty willing to drink some koolaid.
NTCC is a nest of pastorolatry.
Some of you folks are living in serious denial. If you have a good relationship with a brother or sister who grew up in the ntcc, you need, in all humility, to consider if they were ever abused. Pray about it. Consider prayerfully approaching them and asking them if they were ever spanked or groped or molested or raped. Just think about it. Love is great. Mercy is great. But even davis said you can love people into hell. You can ignore the truth and allow people to live a lie and go to hell. Or you can examine the facts and ask God what He wants you to do about it.
Everybody loves the blog, until it exposes someone close to them.
What is the purpose of sharing such things? If people refuse the Holy Ghost conviction and sin, then refuse the condemnation and want to continue hiding that sin, what will their end be?
Please consider these things and ask yourself if you are man or woman enough to consider the truth and act on it.
I wonder how many kids that grew up in the org and are now adults that are hiding things from their past.
Maybe they are protecting their loved ones.
Maybe they feel shame for something that was not their fault and so they should not feel shame for it.
Maybe they think they were sinning when if was someone else who was sinning.
If something happened to you, that was not your fault.
If you've been hiding something to protect a loved one, you don't have to do that.
You know, David the King had sex with Bathsheba, the wife of Uriah the Hittite. God made sure there was a public record of it. I don't know why. God forgave David and Bathsheba. Why did God put that in the bible for everyone to see?
Was God a gossip?
Was He railing on David?
Why did He send the prophet to rebuke David?
Why is that story in the bible?
If King David had been an ntcc preacher, when Bathsheba sent word that she was carrying his child, he would have run her out of town on a rail. Instead of bringing Uriah back home to make it look like the child was conceived by him, David would have had an Ashmorgite-ish person declare that Bathsheba was a whore who got pregnant by someone other than her husband. She would have been branded a slut and whore from the temple. David would had the sons of Aaron take all her possessions from her and throw her out on the streets - if David were an ntcc style adulterer.
For everyone that has come forward and made public accusation against Davis, Kekel, Ashmore and others, there are a whole slew of people that have yet to come forward. There are some that have shared with us things that are horrible, yet they we couldn't go public because it was either too hurtful to those individuals or it was second hand witness with no permission from the actual victim. There are plenty of witnesses that have seen with thier own eyes or have heard with their own ears of abuse that has taken place. We have heard from folks who have admitted that they know for a fact that abuse has taken place but because we don't want to hurt the person that actually went through it, we have not published their experiences or their factual knowledge.
As a matter of fact, Julie was not the first person who told us that Julie was abused in the ntcc. Diana Taylor told us that Carly Ridgeway was writing some really angry posts on her Facebook page about what Julie had gone through. We told Diana that we could not do a blog post about that; because it was not Julie contacting us to write about it. Diana understood that.
As it turns out, God worked things out. Julie contacted us months later about what had happened to her. We didn't try to get her to do that. We don't know if someone else prompted her to do that or not.
There are some people who want to accuse us of gossip. That's not what we do here. We just want victims to have a voice. We want people to know the truth about MyNTCC.
What are you doing to help victims of abuse? How have you helped them? Why?
Will more ntcc children be raped or abused?
Silence is golden - for the rapists and molesters. They love silence. Is that who you want to help?
Is there not a cause? Aren't we commanded by God to help the helpless? To be a voice for those who have none? If you don't like our approach, it's a free country. Start your own blog or show us how much better you are at helping victims find their voice and healing. That's okay with us. Show us how your methodology gets the lechers and adulterers to repent. If it works, more power to you. That's the goal. Healing and empowerment for prior victims, repentance for sinners. It's that simple. It's okay if you don't like our style. Feel free to show us your better way.
Before the primary victim of Warren Jeffs came forward, others had accused him of sexual abuse but nobody would believe them. People came out on blogs and there were newspaper reporters and TV reporters that had eye witness accounts of Warren Jeff's sexual perversions, but until an actual victim went to the police who weren't on Jeffs' payroll, everything was swept under the carpet. The same thing with Sandusky. One victim went to the police for three years before they would believe him because they didn't want the precious Penn State football program to suffer and they didn't want the legacy of their idol Joe Paterno to be tarnished for not going public with the information that he had. It wasn't until a few victims filed lawsuites against the powerful Catholic church and Charges and indictments were brought forward until the scumbag priests were outed and Cardinals and other leaders were sued for millions and then victims started coming forward in droves.
Don't think that because Davis went to his grave or wherever he went that he did so in peace. Don't think that these perverts stopped being perverts and that they'll never slip up and get caught. There are plenty of perverts that are being harbored in the ntcc, that will slip up and get caught because they will never get over their appetite for young girls and boys, their lust for teenage girls and boys. One day the wrong person is going to be violated and they will spill their guts to the police and the media, and others will come forward and people will be hauled off to jail.
There are too many victims out there to remain silent for the rest of their lives. Their are victims in the ntcc right now that recognize the fear and other symptoms that victims share and soon enough someone is going to report the abusers to the police. People like Olson and Johnson who have been successful in the past at keeping things internalized will also be hauled off to prison in hand cuffs for covering it all up and not doing anything to help the victims. Fontenot and Jordan aren't the only pedophiles to serve prison sentences. The news is out and people know what the ntcc is all about. You can only hide stuff like this for so long and then people start taking a closer look. People on the inside start looking for signs of abuse and the awareness of abuse is brought into the light.
If you are a victim in the ntcc of sexual abuse, if some filthy pastor in the ntcc has put his hands on you in an inappropriate way and this has happened recently, you should go to the police. If you are reading this and you feel that you have been violated sexually by a person who is an adult in the ntcc or in any position of power, you would be helping future victims if you went to the police. If you are a victim of abuse as a child and years have past, but the pedophile is still in the ntcc and has never been punished, you would be doing the world a favor by outing this person. If there is a preacher in the ntcc that used to spank your children and be alone with them, that preacher needs public attention to be drawn to them. We have read testimonies from girls other than Julie that have stated that Board members and Pastors and other sick ntcc church leaders have spanked them and looked and felt up their dresses and pulled their dresses up and fondled them. These are perverts and they don't deserve to be behind a pulpit teaching anyone anything. They should be behind bars serving out sentences for being sexual predators and the public should be made aware of them.
We are drawing attention to the fact that others have come forward besides Julie, but let's not forget Julies testimony. She has been one of the bravest victims to ever come forward in the ntcc. I don't care what people say or think, it's not easy to share what she has shared and I believe not only that her testimony is true, but for every testimony she shared, I believe there are many other victims out there that are too petrified to come forward. I don't care if people out there want to justify the perverts by saying that the victim is guilty because they were married or received money, or whatever the case may be. A 16 year old girl raised in the ntcc and married off to a habitual sex offender, is still a 16 year old girl that was violated by a freakish child molesting pervert. There is no excuse for Davis. There is no excuse for Olson and Ashmore or Kekel. There is no excuse for what was done to Pam, Julie, Lisa, Moreno, Ken or for allowing perverts like Johnny Jordan, Fontenot or Ralph and Joan St. Clair to do to others in the organization. They knew about it and failed to report it to the proper authorities they are just as guilty. Until we see this for what it is, and see the victims as victims and not willing participants, and stop making excuses for what these sick people have done we are part of the problem and not the solution. Do you really think Julie was a willing participant? Do you think girls like Pam and Lisa having been raised their entire life by their wicked mother who allowed so many sick things to happen to them are the ones who we should accuse? I don't, for one minute. I think the cult leaders that created this environment and nurtured this kind of behavior by protecting the abusers and harboring the pedophiles are responsible for every bit of it. I think spreading the blame to the victims cheapens them and strengthens the abusers. I think people like Olson and Johnson enable the abuse to continue by making similar excuses and the abusers appreciate it when we do their work for them. We have to stop being naive and gullible.
It just has to be labeled for what it is. The ones that should be preventing abuse from happening are the ones that are guilty.
Correction:
In a previous comment we originally said Carly's last name was Ridgeway. WHOOPS! Her name is Carly St. Clair. Carly is Julie Ridgeway's sister-in-law; Carly is married to Julie's brother John St. Clair.
Sorry for the mix-up. Here is the comment, reposted but with the correct name in place:
As a matter of fact, Julie was not the first person who told us that Julie was abused in the ntcc. Diana Taylor told us that Carly St. Clair was writing some really angry posts on her Facebook page about what Julie had gone through. We told Diana that we could not do a blog post about that; because it was not Julie contacting us to write about it. Diana understood that.
As it turns out, God worked things out. Julie contacted us months later about what had happened to her. We didn't try to get her to do that. We don't know if someone else prompted her to do that or not.
There are some people who want to accuse us of gossip. That's not what we do here. We just want victims to have a voice. We want people to know the truth about MyNTCC.
What are you doing to help victims of abuse? How have you helped them? Why?
Will more ntcc children be raped or abused?
Silence is golden - for the rapists and molesters. They love silence. Is that who you want to help?
Is there not a cause? Aren't we commanded by God to help the helpless? To be a voice for those who have none? If you don't like our approach, it's a free country. Start your own blog or show us how much better you are at helping victims find their voice and healing. That's okay with us. Show us how your methodology gets the lechers and adulterers to repent. If it works, more power to you. That's the goal. Healing and empowerment for prior victims, repentance for sinners. It's that simple. It's okay if you don't like our style. Feel free to show us your better way.
originally posted at:
Sunday, May 17, 2015 7:28:00 AM
*whew* wipes sweat from brow * Sorry again for that mix-up.
:o)
We were reading over some of the old comments that we got and if we were to string them all together, the ntcc leadership would have a lot to answer for. But I guess it's nothing new. When there is nothing new under the sun, people get bored with the old news. We are in the process of clarifying some things and when we have the facts, we'll post some more.
Here's some fresh news:
We've heard from different sources that we consider to be extremely credible, that a long time member of the ntcc used to physically beat his child. The mother has told other people about this but doesn't want to go public with it because it might affect her relationship with her child that is still in the ntcc. The mother of this child went to the board with her child and showed the board members the bruises and the welts all over the child's body. From what we understand, the child was severely abused. The Mother was divorced by this long time well known ntcc minister who remarried and plays a huge role in the financial success of the ntcc, while the mother of the abused child no longer attends the ntcc. The child is now attending bible school, (last we heard), and there is no telling what kind of young man he will turn out to be. I wonder how many children this man has abused? It is freakishly common for men in the ntcc to beat other people's children and there have been multiple witnesses to this happening. We heard about this from different sources, so it appears that the mother has been disturbed enough about this that she has told others about it. We normally wouldn't post this without the Mothers direct permission, and at this point we are not mentioning names, but is it right to have the knowledge of this abuse and for the abuser to get away with what he has done? We are not specifically mentioning anyone's name but we are also tired of ntcc ministers getting away with crimes. I'm sure that this crime is so old that nobody will ever prosecute but why should the child beating scum bag get away with it? I would like to get some opinions on this from our readers. There are some things that require immediate attention. If someone comes to us, or anyone, and says that their child is in danger, or being abused physically or sexually, and it is brought to our attention it is our responsibility to report that abuse to the police. By not reporting it the child stays in danger and could be harmed to the point of hospitalization or even death. When we hear of things that happened 10 or 20 years ago and we do nothing or say nothing, it doesn't change what happened, but it doesn't change awareness within the ntcc that something terrible has happened and the child predator has been harbored yet another time by the ntcc leadership. Is it responsible to keep it quiet because the mother is afraid to lose her relationship with her son who is in the ntcc and attending bible school where the child beating slime ball teaches? There are some sick people out there that will say that we just want to gossip and we love dirt. There are some folks that might understand the mothers plight and say that it's wrong to out the Mother because the ntcc and the scum bag father will do everything in their power to discourage the young man from seeing his mother again. So we are asking that you weigh the privacy issues with the fact that another known child beating parent is allowed to go unnoticed and unaccountable for his actions. At least if we blog about it word will get out that this man is an abuser, and other people will keep their children away from him if they have half a brain. If we don't blog about it and this man harms another child, are we partially to blame because we knew about it and didn't want to harm the mothers relationship with her son? We really would like to know what people think about these type of situations.
ANON Mike,
Wow, I'm not really shocked by these postings but it appears that there is an environment that if navigated correctly allows those who understand the game to take full advantage of people/children.
While this may be obvious I guess I'm referring to Kinson and his type. How can a guy like him be that high up having attended a whore house?
How can certain people who are clearly gay be moved while others are just kicked out?
It all may come down to money but it seems like there are conflicting standards as they relate to each pastor. Was Kinson a superstar yes man? Buddy buddy with Kekel? How is it that Kekel was even allowed to date Davis' daughter? By all accounts he's not a great preacher or leader yet something allowed him to move in on the bosses daughter.
I simply don't see how the dots connect to the punishments administered.
So I guess I asking was this just a yes man thing? Were pastors who brought in a ton of money given large space to commit atrocities against children, spouses, church members?
How old is their child now?
Anonymous said...
How old is their child now?
DNA said:
I'm guessing in his 20's now. He's definitely old enough to have one or two children of his own.
Mike said:
"Wow, I'm not really shocked by these postings but it appears that there is an environment that if navigated correctly allows those who understand the game to take full advantage of people/children."
DNA said:
I guess that's one of the reasons why people get away with so much. Nothing really surprises people any more. If a Woman can bring a abused and beaten child into the general board of the ntcc and they can intimidate her and do nothing about it, I guess it doesn't really matter what some sorry slime ball like Kinson does in Japan. Homosexual pastors in the ntcc have not shared in the same fate as whore house visiting pastors. Those two men that were being moved around were not pastors, but they were being moved around by Ashmore for some reason. We left it up to our readers to connect the dots on that one. Sure is weird. It seems like the homo pastors in the ntcc that actually got caught in the act were all asked to leave, while the adulterers were allowed to stay.
Child molesters were also protected. Davis was a child molester so you can expect that he would allow others to get away with that.
There are quite a few ministers who walk around with a certain air of scumbag entitlement. They feel that in the ntcc, they are above the law and that they have enough power to get away with anything.
I guess if you are a serious money maker in the ntcc like Kinson and this guy that beat his child, they will look the other way. Every single one of those board members had a responsibility to that child to call the police on that abuser, but I'm sure Davis persuaded them that the ntcc's mission to save the lost had to come first.
When an organization has lots of money and prestige people will look the other way. It took one brave soul going to the police for three years straight to get charges on that pervert Sandusky. He was like 15 when he started going to the police, but he was actually 11 when he first got molested if I understood the story. Nobody wants to go up against Penn State. Joe Pa was a lot like Olson. He knew all about the abuse but didn't want his precious football program to suffer so he allowed Sandusky to continue raping little kids to protect his own legacy and the Penn State football program.
The Catholic church was guilty of hundreds of crimes involving children being raped, coerced and molested by older men in the ministry. Some were priests and some were Cardinals, bishops and some just allowed it to happen because they were trying to protect the church. Many parents allowed their children to get raped because they didn't want to fight the power of the Catholic church. The Pope or any of the leaders could have blown the whistle at any time but they chose to fight it all out in court, hoping they had enough money to win. They lost millions and they also were revealed as a bunch of child molesting perverts just like the ntcc ministers who used children to satisfy their own perverted desires.
Don and Ange.....
"If a Woman can bring a abused and beaten child into the general board of the ntcc and they can intimidate her and do nothing about it,"
Julie says.....
One think to point out as well is that J.R. Ashmore was there for this scene yet he turned a blind eye to it. He even was real good friends with the man that abused the boy.
Hugs,
Julie
Rudy was caught by Davis cross dressing in the parking lot of Forest Avenue and he was allowed to be the Dean of the ntcc day school that taught children grades k through 12, (I'm pretty sure on the grades, not possitive if it went all the way to 12). He then was allowed to work with young GI's in Servicemen's homes, but it wasn't until he got caught in homo activity that he was dis-fellowshiped from the ntcc. That was an unforgivable sin for an ntcc pastor but Ashmore was exhibiting some peculiar behavior back in his days as Dean of the bible school or what ever title he held when he was harassing Ken, and harboring known homosexuals. Davis had to come and remove the homosexuals because Ashmore was protecting them. Ashmore was even caught in lies by Davis who believed Brother Ken over Ashmore in this situation. However Ashmore was never removed from his position but he was a huge money maker.
One long time minister went to Olson because Broadnax was acting extremely effeminate around the brethren, but that minister was rebuked because Broadnax had sent 23 men and women to bibleschool. But it wasn't until Davis got a phone call that Broadnax was sleeping on the floor with the brothers instead of with his wife, and that he tried to touch me inappropriately one night, that Broadnax had to go. Broadnax can be found on Facebook now if anyone would like to verify that story. He has a facebook page under Perry Broadnax with links to Homosexual friends and sites. I never allowed him to commit a homosexual act with me even though he attempted it several times.
I personally think that God loves a homosexual as much as he loves anyone, but you can't be committing those acts habitually and expect grace to cover it up. The ntcc shows favoritism to child molesters and child abusers, over homosexuals because they allow child molesters and abusers to stay in, while the victims are often run off by the ntcc leadership. Uncleaness was a sin or a sickness that Jesus healed people of and there were many with unclean spirits that were freed and those spirits were cast out. The woman taken in adultery was not condemned for her adultery by Jesus, but told to go and sin no more. This means that people can repent and change, no matter what the sexual perversion happens to be. I don't think Jesus showed favoritism but the ntcc has shown plenty of favoritism in regards to sex offenders.
DnA: my question is how this boy made it all the way to bible school if his parents divorced?
I feel sorry for the mom because I can't imagine going on with the secret in order to keep the relationship with her son open. Sad. Hopefully this woman is able to find peace in her heart.
D/A said:
I personally think that God loves a homosexual as much as he loves anyone, but you can't be committing those acts habitually and expect grace to cover it up.
This is actually an interesting topic. I think the church as a whole made a huge mistake taking the sin of homosexuality and making it into an unforgivable sin. You never hear preachers railing against hetero sins nearly like that of homosexuality. I think when you're not a homosexual and you don't have any urges to practice that sort of thing it's easy to single out and turn it into a "black sin". This world is fornicating at a clip that will send the vast majority to hell but its always gotta be about homosexuals.
I say live and let live and keep judgment to yourself. I fight my own demons that are habitual in nature and every bit as bad as homosexuality. Sin is sin.
Don,
I'm sorry you were advanced on as that has got to be a horrible thing, an earthquake of absolute confusion. I can't imagine what you had to go through.
Just had to get my 2 cents in as it's a topic that I find interesting from a religious stand point.
Anonymous said:
" Anonymous said...
DnA: my question is how this boy made it all the way to bible school if his parents divorced?
DNA said:
Either the Dad had custody or had visitation privileges enough to keep him involved. I'm not too close to the situation so I'm not sure exactly how it worked out. Perhaps when the guy grew up he came back into his fathers life and was influenced like any other cult member to come back to the ntcc. I know now that there are others that could probably answer that question. I'm more concerned about the father hurting other children, like perhaps his Grand Children than I am about the Mother's relationship. I know that sounds harsh, but would you sacrifice the well being of other children just because you think your child will reject you if you told the truth about his abusive Father? I guess only a mother could answer that, and that's probably why I presented this on the blog. My feelings are that the child abuser should be outed so that he doesn't have a chance to hurt another child. The ntcc messes people up. It seems like folks are taught to be abusers in many cases, but that don't make it right. I personally think that a full grown man that abuses children or women is the absolute lowest person on earth. To me they are less than a man.
Anonymous said...
"I think the church as a whole made a huge mistake taking the sin of homosexuality and making it into an unforgivable sin. You never hear preachers railing against hetero sins nearly like that of homosexuality."
DNA said:
I agree with everything you said. I personally think that Jesus is able to free us all from whatever demons darken our lives. He has done so in my life. The sins that I feel need to be spoken against are the ones that are being committed by the ntcc leadership and that contributed to ruining so many lives while the offenders were just as bad or worse than anyone they railed against. It's not because I feel the need to preach about one sin above another, but the ones I'm concerned about are the hypocrites that have made a living by preaching against the ntcc members but have committed many of the same things or worse things themselves. It's the double standards and the hypocrisy of a bunch of religious nutcases that use fear and judgement to keep people in line so they can pay their tithe and support the immoral and reprehensible actions of a bunch of child molesting perverts. Maybe that is something I need to work on.
I see the price that so many victims of ntcc abuse had to pay and I see people getting rich off of their suffering. I see children suffering from sexual abuse at the hands of some rich cult leader that we all followed and gave our money to. I feel that none of the board members did a thing to stop any of the many rampant crimes against children and women that took place. Children, women and men were all victims of horrendous crimes that were hidden and covered up so a few extremely wicked men could prosper financially and fulfill any sexual fantasy the dreamed of at the expense of a bunch of manipulated Christians.
I don't feel that way towards non ntcc ministers for the most part. I know that the religious world has exploited Christians and will continue to exploit them. I think that there is an entire world that needs Christ and we just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time when we were invited to attend an organization that makes money off of people in need of a savior and manipulates them for whatever purposes they see fit.
You are facing an ethical dilemma. Hospitals and research centers employ folks full time with Master and Doctorate degrees to mull over such tough questions.
I don't have any quick answers. I had been emotionally/physically abused by my ex in NTCC. However it only took him hitting me one time for me to go to the police. I was never fully brainwashed. If I had a child which was beaten in NTCC I know I would be behind bars for life.
So what does one do with the knowledge you are struggling with? On one hand, if the mother has a relationship with her son she may be able to influence her son to not abuse others. He may already be sensitive enough to put a stop to any abuse he sees, or not. Does one put themself in the middle of child abuse allegations years old? Yes, this mother have gone to the police years ago but she didn't have the fortitude.
Personally, I would respect the mother's wishes however, I would also let the Pierce County Sheriff's Detectives and Children's Services know about the allegations. That way if anyone reports current abuse the agencies will have a heads up.
Thurston County (Olympia WA) prosecuting attorney back in the '80's hated abusive cults. NTCC was lucky he didn't work in Pierce County.
This boy, young man, that was abused, must not be aware of the abuse he suffered at the hands of his father when he was a little tyke.
I wonder why would he go back and renew his relationship with his dad.
Probably this dad has some financial stability and a young man might see this as a plus so he came back to the ntcc.
It is very common for physically and even sexually abused children to still support the abuser, even as an adult. Many long for a healthy child/parent relationship and they genuinely love that parent. Unfortunately, unless the parent admits guilt and changes the child is will be surely disappointed.
Anonymous said:
"I think when you're not a homosexual and you don't have any urges to practice that sort of thing it's easy to single out and turn it into a "black sin". This world is fornicating at a clip that will send the vast majority to hell but its always gotta be about homosexuals."
DNA said:
Again, very good points. I know that many ntcc preachers used to rail against homosexuality and I wonder if they were doing that to draw attention away from themselves. The sad thing about it to me is that there were a lot of people coming to our churches that needed help. When a person comes to church in need of deliverance from any sin they should all be treated the same. It's the same blood that is going to cleanse the thief, the liar, the hypocrite, the adulterer and the homosexual. They are all people with souls and they all need God, but in the ntcc, Davis would say, "I never seen God save a homosexual". Davis and many others in the ntcc were too busy condemning people for homosexuality to stop and help them. Jesus died for every one of us and the ntcc did single out that sin in a way that made people feel like there was no hope for them. If a person molested his own 6 year old daughter, they were allowed to seek forgiveness and they were welcomed back into the fold, but if that same preacher were to be caught having sex with another man they would be dis-fellowshiped without any hope of returning to the ntcc. In the old testament a person could get stoned for using God's name in vain and for Homosexuality. In the New Testament there is healing and salvation for all, not just the fornicator and the thief. The ntcc has failed miserably. They pick and choose the sins they want to preach against according to how it effects them financially or according to whatever double standard covers up their own sin.
Julie says.....
One think to point out as well is that J.R. Ashmore was there for this scene yet he turned a blind eye to it. He even was real good friends with the man that abused the boy.
DNA said:
There you have it, a third witness. A lot of people already know about this. I'm sure Ashmore and all of the prominent board members were sitting there because this woman walked into the room in the middle of a board meeting according to those who gave us this information. She pulled the childs pants down to reveal a mass of black and blue bruises and welts and asked the board members, "What is this Sh#t?" She was mad and had every right to be. Everyone of those Board members should have called the police and reported this child beating scoundrel. What kind of a man beats a defenseless child like that? He's not a man, he's less than a man. He shouldn't be around children. The General board of the ntcc are also a bunch of spineless wimps that shouldn't be allowed near a pulpit. They are just as guilty. They should be there to protect children not enable the abusers. They all got a huge yellow streak right down the center of their backs. The ntcc is not the last hope for a lost and dying world. The ntcc is the devil's playground and those of you who are a part of it need to open your eyes before you or your family, your wife or your children become victims. The sad thing is that it usually takes something as traumatic as child abuse to get someone to leave the ntcc.
I wonder how many board meetings Ashmore sat in on just like this one. I wonder how many abuse victims Ashmore and the others ignored. Ashmore denied having any inside knowledge of the financial affairs of the ntcc, yet his signature was on just about every notarized document that was produced by the ntcc hypocrites. I wonder how many sex abuse victims came forward to the General board and were turned away by Ashmore and Olson, Davis and Kekel. They all had great big yellow streaks down their backs and they allowed young girls and boys to be molested and beaten. They told Fontenot's X-wife to take her molested and raped daughter to go find another church. They told Pam and Lisa that they could not receive an accusation from them and Lisa was driven from the church. The General board is guilty as sin. They not only allowed it to happen they enabled the predators to continue preying on victims. Is it really a big surprise with Davis running the show and the history he had? Everyone wanted to be just like Davis and that is why Ashmore sat there for forty years with a huge yellowstreak running down his spine and enabling people like Davis to have his way with teenage girls. All of these board members are culpable and they might not have to answer for their actions in a court of law in this life, but there is an all seeing eye that sees everything and if these hypocrites are allowed to get away with their secret sins than I suppose God will have to allow Sodom and Gomorrah to repent.
Can you imagine what would have happened if this boy was grant?
Davis would have exploded in rage but in this instance it was just the son of somebody that the ntcc wanted around so probably the mom was shunned and like they say in ntcc they: "invited her to another church" in other words: If you don't like it there's the door.
Probably the board member wives knew about this situation too but they rather talk about the newest diet they're into! Just outrageous!
Anonymous said...
You are facing an ethical dilemma. Hospitals and research centers employ folks full time with Master and Doctorate degrees to mull over such tough questions.
DNA said:
That's the truth. We also heard of a man that was beating his wife over and over again and her brother and Mother kidnapped her from the ntcc and brought her to a hospital in another state. She was four months pregnant and our understanding is that she lost the baby. She had to have surgery and was also suffering from Malnutrition and exhaustion, and that she almost lost her life. This man is also in the ntcc and has had at least two wives. Not too sure if he is beating his present wife but usually wife beaters never quit. It took this woman years to get over what she went through. She stopped corresponding with us and never gave us permission to publish her story. We are not mentioning her name but we also know who her husband is and what he has done. Is it right for us to remain silent and allow this sorry excuse for a human being to threaten others? What if he kills somebody and we kept this to ourselves. People share stuff with us and unknowingly to them we become accomplices.
We have made it clear and will say it again. We don't want to know or keep any secrets. We don't want to betray confidence but we also don't want others to be hurt. From here on out, please don't share any stories of abuse or child abuse with us and expect us to not publish it on our blog. You know we run a blog and when you tell us such things there is no purpose behind us knowing if we can't help future victims. What you should do, instead of coming to us is go to the police. If your ntcc husband is beating you or your children you should go directly to the police and report that sorry scumbag to them. If you have gone to any of the board members and they have tried to silence you, make sure you mention that to the police. There was an entire board of directors in Colorado that was being prosecuted because they had knowledge of the Pastor feeling a womans breasts through her clothing. The woman worked in the office and reported the unwanted advances to the police and she included in her report that she reported the incident to the board of directors who did nothing about it. The ntcc board needs their sorry butts to be dragged into a court of law and they should answer for some of the crimes they have allowed.
Anonymous said...
This boy, young man, that was abused, must not be aware of the abuse he suffered at the hands of his father when he was a little tyke.
I wonder why would he go back and renew his relationship with his dad.
DNA said:
The psychology of an abuse victim seems to indicate that more often than not the victim goes back to the abuser in spite of drastic efforts by loved ones and concerned parties to prevent it. Women often think that they can change their abusive husband's behavior by forgiving him only to be beaten again and again. It's usually a vicious cycle and very seldom does the abusive husband change his abusive ways. In the ntcc all of this abuse is also hidden behind the pulpit and it gives the abuser more power to rebuke and verbally abuse his wife and children. Since many people already seem to know, we'll say that the abusive man in question does hold a pretty high position in the ntcc and oversees many of the building projects and has several businesses in his own name. He has been around for decades and is highly respected in the ntcc. That kind of power is enticing to any young man in the organization. The child that was beaten has two children of his own and probably leaves them with their Grand Father. Hopefully the temptation to beat defenseless children doesn't take hold on the Grandfather while he is watching these kids and hopefully the young man who was beaten as a child doesn't inherit the same quality from his Dad. Abusers very seldom change and when they are allowed to cultivate their abusive habits in an abusive organization, they often complete the cycle of abuse.
Anonymous said...
It is very common for physically and even sexually abused children to still support the abuser, even as an adult. Many long for a healthy child/parent relationship and they genuinely love that parent. Unfortunately, unless the parent admits guilt and changes the child is will be surely disappointed.
DNA said:
Very good point and one that supports what we shared. The ntcc pastor member relationships are much like those of an abusive parent to their abused child. We actually kept coming back for more abuse thinking that everything was our fault. We would be blamed, preached at and talked about for the sin of being alive, and no matter how bad it got a lot of us thought it was God's love to chasten us because he loved us. The difference is that God corrects us out of love and doesn't hold a grudge. Once something is under the blood, God doesn't keep throwing it in our face. The ntcc leaders do. God also doesn't expect us to pay Him for the privilege of being someone's whipping boy or girl. But we kept coming back until we finally realized that it was abuse. Hopefully the victims of abuse in the ntcc will leave the abusers once and for all.
I think that the board member's wives are almost as culpable as their husbands. Many of them gossip in their little circles and do very little to help or change things. If Grant were abused by Kekel I'm not sure if Davis would have done anything. He probably would have had more to worry about from Tanya, than RW. RWD allowed his daughter to be fondled by a grown man in his twenties. Most responsible adults would have had the perv arrested. The fact is, I doubt Grant got spanked much at all.
MIKE
Good point,
I think the wives make me just as sick. I don't understand how children can be pimped out to BS students. What mother lets a 15 year old get married or date a twenty something. Total garbage!
It sounds like Davis' wife was the cause of marital damage/divorce and gossip.
My 2 cents
Your 2 cents is correct. I think they are afraid that their kids are going to get old enough to think for themselves so they get them started thinking about men early. I remember my wife seen a women asking a young 10-12 year old girl which guy would you like to marry? Of course all the guys were grown adults in bible school.
Lisa shared testimony that she was the youngest to ever graduate bible school at 14 years old. She was 12 when she started going. She was taught her regular classes in the ntcc day school by M. Rudy, which was scarcely an education at all, (most of the children that were educated by the ntcc, barely have Jr. High reading and writing skills). I think Julie said she left with what was equivalent to grade school education. Many of the girls that went to ntcc day school went to bible school at night and were forced to end their child hood at 12-16 years of age. Many were also married off at very young ages to men that were much older than them.
The wives of Davis and later Kekel had a lot to do with the match making and the gossip which led to these girls be married off at such a young age. Of course Davis probably had his hand in just about every courtship that ever took place in those days as each student had to ask him permission to speak with the girl that was going through puberty of their choice. And many of these girls were literally going through puberty when they started dating? Something about that seem a little odd?
Cults and underage girls go hand in hand. I'd say it's the biggest warning sign that should be sending you running for your lives. You people who read this blog need to answer for the underage girls getting married off to Men they don't know. Total garbage.
I understand you may not think every church is perfect but that's a stinking deal breaker people! You can leave knowing NTCC is neck deep in SEXUAL PERVERSION!!!
This is not some disgruntled former NTCCer (although it is) but the evidence is all around you. Girls as young as 14 were married off. YOU ARE IN A CULT!
Mike...
You higher ups check out this blog, we all know it. Answer for the children who's lives you've destroyed.
Frank Lofting wanted to "talk" to Julie St. Clair on "the wall" when she was ten years old. He asked RW for permission, and RW told him to go ask her father. Whatever else Ralph stands accused of, in this case he told the dude to stay away and threatened to take a baseball bat to him if he didn't.
Vic Johanson said...
"Frank Lofting wanted to "talk" to Julie St. Clair on "the wall" when she was ten years old. He asked RW for permission, and RW told him to go ask her father. Whatever else Ralph stands accused of, in this case he told the dude to stay away and threatened to take a baseball bat to him if he didn't."
DNA said:
Is wasn't because Ralph St. Clair was being nobel. Back when Julie was 10 she had already been violated by Ralph and Davis not long after that. If Ralph threatened anyone with a baseball bat, he was saying, "She's my property". For Davis to tell the dude to ask her Father shows you how perverted Davis was. What kind of man tells a grown adult to ask the Father of a ten year old to date his daughter. This shows how sick and perverted Davis is, and if you read what Julie has shared about Ralph, it sounds more like jealousy than protecting his daughter's honor. That was stolen from her long before. What happened to that girl was shameful. I'm glad that she shared what she did so people would know what these child molesting perverts are all about. Julie definitely brought some degree of awareness to the ntcc about sexual predators in high places.
Don and Ange,
I never knew about the Day school and allowing 12 year olds to attend Bible School. Where and when did the Day schools take place? What kind of education was it?
In the late '80's Marshall sent his two step sons to a strict private Baptist school. Not much has surprised me concerning NTCC but I'm surprised at how angry I am about this cult shorting kids (especially girls) of a solid education!
D&A
I think you have come to a conclusion concerning some of the abuse allegations you have become privy to. I would suggest anything that has been shared up to now be kept off the blog if the victim wishes so.
This point forward let folks know that from a personal, ethical standpoint you may not be able to keep information private. This way someone can decide what to share with you. If it is second or third hand I wouldn't share names or identifying information on your blog.
If any information is under the statute of limitations I wouldn't hesitate to call the local police department and child protective services and share all you know- be it first hand or third hand information. Let the authorities sort out the facts.
No matter your decision there will always be consequences either good or bad. You have to have peace with your conscience and God.
Don and Ange,
I never knew about the Day school and allowing 12 year olds to attend Bible School. Where and when did the Day schools take place? What kind of education was it?
DNA said:
The day school came about in the earlier years of New Testament Christian Church of God. From what we know it was basically Kindergarten through 12 grade and many of the life long ntcc members went to this school. We know that Julie, Lisa, Pam, and Lori went. Lori's sister Cynthia Kelley went and I would imagine just about anyone who was in the age group of 4 to 18 at that time went to the ntcc day school. Probably Alice Cyrus, Tanya Reynolds Davis Kekel Jingle Hiemer Schmidt, Possibly Helen Ashmores children, and many others who have long since departed. Vic would probably know more about the ntcc day school, and Bro. D. also might have some info on it.
The little that we know about the day school comes from the following testimonies:
1. Lisa shares: Let's talk about this day school you opened wear the teachers where not educated at all what a joke. How you made all of us kiss, watch you spank Garry with a belt you would make him turn around you would swing. That belt make turn again swing the belt you hit him 20 times over and over again so you made him to be.
2. Ange shares: **Abusive and child molesting parents often pull their children out of public schools to hide the abuse and make it impossible for the child to tell anyone. Who was Julie going to tell? Her teacher? (mother-fail) Her minister? (father-fail) Isolated and abused. The true life of an NTCC kid!**
3. Julie shares: What a lot of adults that have left the borg don't understand I didn't have a life before the borg so all I knew is what the borg allowed me to know. Complete with my 4th grade education that they so graciously let me receive.** I should count my blessings.
Julie
4. Lisa Shares: Lisa said...
I was born and as I grew Barbara Norton would tell me not to worry. About doing good in day school because I was in training to be a preachers wife that school was not important. She would always say. Your husband will support you. And you will be his wife. .. I went to bible college at 12 yrs old I did graduate when I was 14 I made straight A. In bible school. She had my life already planned. Before I. Even knew who I. Was.
5. Don Shared: They put Rudy in charge of the Day school. He was a cross-dressing tranvestite who was spanking and touching the children inappropriately! Spanking is a big time sexual fetish for control freak pervs like kekel and davis.
Listen, most normal people that don't belong to a cult don't even allow other people to spank their children. The ntcc leaders used to do it in private, like Davis taught them. The mothers would be waiting outside; or it would be done in the sick perverted church leader's bedroom.
Julie shared: Yeah I was one of the children that Rudy got a hold of back then.
The way you describe Davis and Kekel fits them completely. They get to hide in a cult while others join secret spanking groups to do the very same things.
It is just so sick what these people do.
Julie
Anonymous said ...
"I never knew about the Day school"
Julie says....
Yes Tanya Kekel graduated from the Day school in St.Louis Missouri and then it was closed down since she was the main purpose for it according to Verna Davis (her mother. I heard that from Verna's own mouth. Yes I attended it in my early years and Joan St.Clair taught in it as well.
Hugs,
Julie
Anonymous said...
D&A
I think you have come to a conclusion concerning some of the abuse allegations you have become privy to. I would suggest anything that has been shared up to now be kept off the blog if the victim wishes so.
DNA said:
I appreciate your opinion and I'm sure that it is shared with the ntcc leadership and those who don't want the abusive Father and his actions to become public. I know most of the folks that have commented about this subject have agreed with you and I do understand where you are coming from. I also understand your point of second and third hand information. However, with this particular story, I trust the person who is close to the mother and in addition to that there are folks out there that already know who we are talking about.
What it really comes down to is weighing the mother's relationship with a grown adult and his willingness to allow her to see her grand children, with trusting a known child abuser to never abuse children again. Also this whole thing about that Mother being cut off if this goes public can also be a stretch. I feel like if the Mother really loves her son and her Grandchildren that she should be honest and confront her son about what she knows. If the Mother truly loves the son and the son loves the mother, honesty will strengthen their relationship. I've given enough details for people to know who it is. Mentioning the name is really just a formality at this point. Considering that there are more than a handful of people in the X-er community that know who we are talking about, I'm sure others know. I'm not going to mention the name only because the Mother never talked to us, but moving forward, just so everyone knows, we are here to expose the ntcc.
The ntcc needs a very bright light to be shined into their darkened little secretive world. They hide far too much and expect us to be quiet. As far as having peace and my conscience, I'd probably feel the good about handling this either way. The ntcc are the ones that should feel bad about what they are doing and the filthy secrets they keep.
Vic Johanson said...
Frank Lofting wanted to "talk" to Julie St. Clair on "the wall" when she was ten years old. He asked RW for permission, and RW told him to go ask her father.
DNA said:
The timeline works out perfectly and actually coincides with Julies testimony. Maybe RWD told Frank to ask Julie's Father because that's what he had to do. Remember Julie would get beaten for talking about this with her parents and when she went to school her teachers thought the pain was due to her Cerebral Palsy that Ashmore claimed was healed when he prayed for her. Julie shared the following testimony in which she starts off talking about her Father and then later about Davis:
In Louisiana the touching continued until I turned 9 that is where full sex began. I didn’t understand it but the sexual stuff threw me into early puberty. I had 36 C breasts by 9 ½. This caused some ill development. ( by the age of 10 some people thought I was 18)
Nine months after I turned 9 we moved back to St. Louis where my father began teaching in the bible school. We lived first in a duplex by the old NTCC building. The sexual stuff continued with my father. Davis never stopped touching me when opportunity was given. Over the next few years we stayed in Missouri. During that time many men had their way with me which include me getting pregnant while in St.Loius. (Doctors say due to the early sex, pregnancies, miscarriages, etc. it led me to have female issues as well as difficult pregnancies with the 2 kids I have)
Anonymous said...
"Anonymous said...
I was a female soldier with an excelIent tithe check and remember how I was "courted" by NTCC.
[...]
The pastor wanted my pay check so it wasn't until the day I married one of the soldiers (6 months after being there) that life changed for ever. The pastor knew he had me and all hell broke loose from the pulpit. The jacking up started and all the nonsense rules came rolling in."
DNA said...
"It sounds like your pastor had his own devious plot to get you trapped by getting you married, ..."
DNA also say,
It also sounds like that 'pastor' wanted to trap your tithe check in HIS church. That's probably another reason why he 'let' you marry a brother in the servicemen's home rather than sending you to the bridal, oops, bible 'college' to get match-made by davis. Why send a perfectly good tithe check to someone else? After all, that's all you were to them: a tithe check and a punching bag.
You were smart to get out of the NTCC.
I knew Julie in NTCC in fact I grew up with her. I have witnessed many abuses that she has suffered. The sexual stuff she would tell me about it. I told my parents on a few occasions about it but they would just tell me it is a private matter and it wasn't something I was suppose to talk about. It was hard to see her abused. I think the reason her father didn't want her dating so young was because her parents at one point got in trouble for trying to remove her from school in Missouri so they feared the state. Though they didn't stop in other ways of abusing her there. Now the dating reason is just my opinion.
I have never come forward on this blog with this because I fear the same harassment and a verbal attacks I know victims have received and I don't want to lose everything I have in life including my friendships. So even now I won't share my name.
There are many that attack Julie's story and won't support her now that Rev. JR Ashmore left. I think she is brave to share the truth but I wouldn't personally have done it at the price she has had to paid in doing so.
How do you both survive being attacked for publishing her life on your blog? To me sometimes the truth comes at too high a cost and it is better put into the closet forever. It can't be fixed so why share it? The statue of limitations is up so leave the ant hill alone.
Julie I know the past has hurt you I have seen your pain but you would be better off putting NTCC behind you. You need to make a fresh start with people that were never apart of NTCC and move on with life. I will pray for you that your future will be better.
Anonymous Forever said:
"How do you both survive being attacked for publishing her life on your blog? To me sometimes the truth comes at too high a cost and it is better put into the closet forever. It can't be fixed so why share it? The statue of limitations is up so leave the ant hill alone."
DNA said:
Thank you Anonymous Forever. That is a very interesting perspective that you have. Perhaps it would be better for people like Julie to keep it all inside and not have to deal with the haters. I know that the folks that have come forward have had to deal with backlash from friends and family. I know that there is a certain weight that is lifted off of a person's back that can only be removed when they share what they have been through with others.
Brother Ken, shared his testimony with his family and church and they all understood and loved and accepted him for what he shared. I felt the same burden lifted from me when I shared with others what I went through. I know Julie has expressed that she didn't even realize what was right and what was wrong, being raised in the organization and abused by her parents and the leaders of the ntcc. Other victims want to move past all of this stuff and not have to deal with it for the rest of their lives and I understand that.
My only problem with the Anthill is that if you don't warn other people about it, they will step into it and suffer the same fate that we all did. I am grateful that people had been blogging about the ntcc for quite some time before I understood what they were all about. It took a lot of reading and studying before I could even learn to trust Ange completely. I had the same opinion that many ntcc'rs had when I first read the blogs. I thought they were hate groups that got together to gossip about the ntcc leadership and board members. It wasn't until I started to take in the sheer volume of testimony that good people that I knew were sharing. People were pouring their guts out to warn others about the ntcc.
I got to the point where I decided if people don't love me or can't accept me for what I've been through or what I've shared than I'm not losing anything. I lost every friendship I ever had in the ntcc when I left. I came back to the X-er community years later and many have contacted me and I've never heard from them again. The most important thing about surviving abuse is that the victim doesn't blame themselves for what they went through and that they realize that God still loves them. If God still loves us or those who have suffered abuse in the ntcc, how important are those who oppose us or those who lash out against us?
Anonymous Forever said:
"How do you both survive being attacked for publishing her life on your blog?"
DNA said:
The enemy wouldn't be attacking you if something very valuable wasn't inside of you. Thieves don't break into empty houses.
You got a Purpose!
That quote was shared on Facebook by Donna Richardson Joyner. I just stumbled accross it about the same time we received this comment.
D/A,
Keep on Keeping on no matter what anyone says!!!
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You and Chief have caused people to heal for the simple fact they can finally walk away in both body and spirit.
I'm going through the anger phase of this because I finally was able to accept Davis wasn't Moses. Would never have happened without your blogs.
It took 13 years before I just accidentally stumbled upon your blog and it was a tidal wave of emotion and relief... But like I said, now I'm really really ticked off!
If you take time off like chief has indicated please post updates of people escaping, going to jail and the like.
Mike
Julie I know the past has hurt you I have seen your pain but you would be better off putting NTCC behind you. You need to make a fresh start with people that were never apart of NTCC and move on with life. I will pray for you that your future will be better.
Anonymous said,
Julie speaking out has made people think twice about whom they leave in charge of their children. I know I have!
Thank Julie! And forgive Lord for being so blind and stupid by putting the evil deeds of man before Your Will!
Like Jeff said, knowing all that you know now, would you let your wife clean Kekel's house?
Sorry I meant forgive "me" Lord for being so blind and stupid.
Day School: I never understood why since RW said it was so urgent for ntcc to have its own day school, why it was shut down, and the Baptist Church was good enough to take students. Logic would have dictated that there really was no need for an ntcc school at all. But we all secretly guessed it was for Tanya to get out of going to a worldly school, so she could have her own way. When she was working in the office of ntcc, she wore a bunch of bracelets, which was supposedly worldly? Who knows. She didn't want to do any cleaning at a ntcc at all! I had to do all the vacuuming, waxing and unwaxing, then rewaxing floors! Of course, she worked at her home cleaning In. those days. Supposedly. Later RW excoriated me for not wanting to get my hands dirty when I was in Tillicum. He never told how I walked around in the concrete, or hauled cedar shakes as we built his house, first. As He was telling the folks in st louis that we were building the classroom in Graham, not!
Mike said:
"I'm going through the anger phase of this because I finally was able to accept Davis wasn't Moses. Would never have happened without your blogs."
DNA said:
You are not alone. It's not easy to just accept what the ntcc does to people and 'move on' with your life. So many people just desensitize themselves from their past and pretend like it never happened. I would much rather have my eyes opened to what really took place than to go through life in denial that anything bad ever happened.
There are a lot of people, and I mean a lot of X-members of the ntcc that don't allow themselves to get to the anger phase. The only way you can bypass that phase is to completely ignore it. People that ignore what happened in the ntcc are ignoring history and people that ignore history are bound to repeat it.
I know of three people that were huge advocates for the X-er community. All three of these people were dear friends and they fought along side of us for quite some time. They were advocates for those whose lives were shipwrecked by the ntcc. All three of them were in the ntcc for close to 30 years and one couple even more. They know more than you know Mike, but they were looking for someone that they can believe in and they have forsaken the people they helped and are now friends with Ashmore. I spoke to one person last night who referred to Ashmore as Davis's little Anti-Christ and that describes him. All three of these friends have pretty much stopped communicating with us and no matter how much we try to warn them, they want to believe in him. I'm all for mercy and grace, but Ashmore hasn't repented of anything. He hasn't owned up to anything he was responsible for in the ntcc. He's lied about things since he's been out. He says he was not in on the financial matters of the ntcc, and yet he was the treasurer and the Secretary for several years. His name can be found on countless legal documents and deeds of trust. He Notarized just about every document that the ntcc needed notarized and I believe he even had something to do with the 39 acre land gift. Have you ever heard of that deal, Mike? There was 39 acres that the ntcc gifted to Mike and Tanya Kekel of prime land in Graham, Washington. It was blogged about before we even started our blog and it made a lot of ntcc ministers angry. Some ministers even left the organization because of this land deal. Not too many days past and the ntcc had to do Damage control. Olson wrote a memorandum in which he lied about the deal, and the Kekel's quickly had to sign the property back over to the ntcc. Why? Because they are supposed to be a non-profit organization and it is illegal for non profit religious organizations to give gifts to their board members. But the ntcc and Ashmore are a bunch of liars and scum bags. Ashmore is a flat out stone cold liar if for saying that he wasn't in on any of the ntcc financial matters. That's not the only lie that Ashmore has told, either.
We don't intend on shutting things down anytime soon, Mike, we are just getting wound up. Stick around, more to follow....
Brother D. said:
"When she was working in the office of ntcc, she wore a bunch of bracelets, which was supposedly worldly?"
DNA said:
Tanya and Grant never had to live by the same rules that everyone else lived by. Davis had a TV in his own house and I'm sure Tanya got to watch her share of programs. Tanya wore jewelry and probably Make up while growing up and she also cut her hair according to some witnesses. She now wears tight form fitting clothing that would get her shunned if she stepped foot anywhere near an Amish church. Some brothers said she purposely rubbed her breasts up against them on occasion, kind of like Mike Kekel couldn't avoid rubbing up against some of the women cleaning his house. Mike has a huge mansion and do you mean to tell me there is not enough room to get by someone that is cleaning without rubbing up against them? But he's not supposed to be there alone with them anyway according to ntcc doctrine.
Grant never had to keep the rules either. Only us stupid ntcc members who were trying to get to heaven had to keep the rules. Verna never had to keep any rules. Neither did R-dub. This might blow some of your minds, but I don't think R-dub was ever saved during his entire time in the ntcc. I don't think he even believed in the bible. I think he knew that there was a ton of money to be made off of brain washed suckers and he found the perfect target audience to pedal his tithe or hell doctrine to. He certainly never kept the standards that were in place to insure that we all didn't go to hell. It was all about money the whole time with him. If he really believed what he preached he would have insisted that his own family keep the standards that he claimed were Gawd's standards and if any disobeyed they would burn in everlasting fire. Have you ever found it strange that if these standards were so vital to our eternal destination, why was it that Jesus never mentioned them one time? Jesus spoke about the things Davis was doing, not what we were trying to live. Jesus spake against adultery and Davis was guilty of that from the beginning of the ntcc, before and after according to multiple witnesses. Jesus spake vehemently against hypocrisy. Davis was a chief offender. He was a consummate hypocrite always requiring others to bare heavy burdens while he wouldn't lift one finger to bare them himself. He was covetous and greedy of gain, he was driven by lust for women and young girls. He preached tithe or hell with no supporting scriptures and when people didn't pay it, he ran them off. He cared more about the mighty dollar than he did about the souls of men. Davis was the opposite of what Jesus wanted people to be. Davis emphasized holiness or hell, and his definition of holiness was how we dressed, while Jesus never spoke of the things Davis required us to live. We were brain washed suckers that blindly followed the blind.
That Dayschool turned out to be more of a playground to groom young women to be Davis's play toys. I know of 4 women who went to that dayschool that claimed that Davis had some type of sexual encounters with. 2 of them were Julie and Pam, one was an older sister of Lisa and Pam that Lisa blogged about who refused the advances by Davis and the other is still in the ntcc. Those are just the ones that we know about.
Davis also used the Dayschool students to train his closest associates how to gain access to young children. Julie shared that Kekel used to spank her and how he would bend her over his knee. Her underwear would be pulled down and Kekel would cop a couple of cheap feels and than spank her ruthlessly like an object. Isn't it interesting that Lisa in a totally different testimony shared how Ashmore spanked her. She said that Ashmore bent her over so he could see up her dress and she felt his hand go up inside of her underwear. Lisa also shared that Davis whipped Ashmore's son Jerry twenty times in class in front of all the students. Each time he would have to spin around in a circle and then get another lashing from Davis's belt. The sick sadistic slime ball repeated that process twenty times in a room full of young children.
Folks this is totally sick behavior and I'm sorry if it offends folks that we would write about such things but it needs to be exposed. I'm sure there will be a bunch of ntcc'rs and so called X-ers alike who will try to say Lisa isn't being honest about everything. But they won't be specific, they'll just try to cast doubt. Well, Lisa has witnesses. Lori Kelley was there also and so were many others. These atrocities were not done in a corner. Ashmore hasn't apologized to Lisa for spanking her. Lisa told us that he spanked her for no reason whatsoever, and she could never understand why. It happened because her mother allowed these child fondling creeps to be around their children. These people are not Christ like. They are anything but Christian. If you are trying to live up to the standards of Davis, Olson, Ashmore or Kekel, you are walking in the opposite direction of Christ. Jesus doesn't want you to follow sick perverts like these men. Ashmore hasn't changed one bit. He hasn't publicly addressed one issue that most people think he should address. Now he is following false doctrines of blood moons with reckless abandon, allowing his associate pastor to use end of times preaching to scare people. The same junk he used to preach against, he now supports. He's a liar now. The ntcc preachers try to use weasel words and cover up their sins without telling outright lies but not Ashmore. He broke all ties with the ntcc and feels he has nothing to fear, so he'll tell you some big wolf cookies if you'll believe him.
I've never heard about this school, wonder if they shut it down before it became a legal disaster...
They probably shut it down because of what happened to Lisa. I'm not positive but what happened to Lisa caused a huge upheaval in the ntcc. Davis had to move Pam, Johnny Jordan and Barbara Norton up to Graham, and he had to get Ashmore to run Lisa and Lori off and publicly slander them so that Davis's sin could be hidden. I'm not sure if all this coincided with the school being shut down or not, but I'm sure that there were several girls that were violated by Davis and shutting the school down was the best way of separating the girls so they couldn't talk about what happened.
Things got out of control and Davis had a huge mess to clean up. He was lucky that Barbara Norton was not a good mom that loved her children. Davis was easily able to convince Barbara Norton that all of her kids were lying, and manipulated her to leave her pregnant daughter and special needs son to go to Washington. If the School was not shut down already, I'm sure it was at this point. Maybe someone out there knows what year it was shut down.
Chief just shut down... What the heck?
D/A,
Just FYI you're the only active bloggers left. I'm thinking about starting one to fill a niche in the market but I'm a complete moron with tech.
Anyway keep up the good work.
Mike
The more the merrier. Blogging can become addictive, but it also is a good outlet. If you get a blog up and running, let us know and we'll put up a link on ours to drive some traffic to you.
Julie has already stated that the day school was shut down after Tanya graduated, and I agree with her that Tanya was the sole reason for the existence of that school. Once she was out, that was it.
The Day school was closed in 1982 if my mind serves me right. My family came back to St. Louis in September of 1983 and I know it was no longer there. Don't kill me if I am a little off on that. I know I will be contacted by the critics if I am a little off. All I can say about the critics is they are very consist and predictable.
Hugs,
Julie
Mike if you do start a blog I would like to know. Every little bit helps me.
Hugs,
Julie
It's outrageous that these men spanked these kids.
I can't imagine being a mom and seeing an adult man touching a child in that way!
This is horrible!
But it seems that people forget about the atrocities inflicted for I've seen these same kids, they're adults now, still buddy buddy with many ntccers.
The big wig you posted about who abused his little boy and the mom showed the board members the wounds, I witnessed how he treated his 2nd wife. He was even preached to by rw in one of his classes back in the day.
Apparently he was treating her like she was just a maid and not even speaking to her and just giving orders and rw called him by name during his class and said that if he continued with this she was gonna leave him.
He never changed some years back he was still the same, treating her like she was his possession. I remember talking to her and he comes in and yells : let's go, now! And she embarrassed rushes running behind him!
Sometimes I wonder how we all are gonna stand before God knowing the things we know.
I can't imagine how you guys do it DnA
Because you hear these horror stories and yet sometimes you have your hands tied, you can't do anything because of the privacy deal.
It's sad what anonymous wrote concerning Julie.
I can't even imagine how brain washed they were and brushed it off as being a "private family matter"
Vic Johanson said...
Julie has already stated that the day school was shut down after Tanya graduated, and I agree with her that Tanya was the sole reason for the existence of that school. Once she was out, that was it.
DNA said:
It seems like all that happened shortly before God moved heaven and earth to bless Davis with the Holly Hills building. I'm sure that there were a lot of sacrifices made (by Davis of course) to enable them to move on up to the Scientology building. You know your cult is moving up in status when you move into a Scientology building.
My mother went to a Scientology church when I was about 11 or 12 and it was a really futuristic building. In fact they used it in a sci fi Woody Allen movie called Sleeper as a McDonald's of the future. We would all hold hands during service and sway back and forth while singing, "Let there be peace on earth and let it begin with me, With every breath I take may this be my final plea, to take each moment and live each moment in peace eternally..... Sorry, I got all caught up in the nostalgic memories of that cult experience.
But you know your'e movin on up when you can get yo paws on a Christian Science buildin.
Julie said:
"My family came back to St. Louis in September of 1983 and I know it was no longer there. Don't kill me if I am a little off on that. I know I will be contacted by the critics if I am a little off."
DNA said: I'm wondering if the whole Barbara Norton episode didn't coincide with the Bible School moving from St. Louis to Washington. Not trying to create a conspiracy here, but it seemed like quite an upheaval. Okay, I just did the math and figured it out. It does appear that the upheaval of the Nortons and Johnny Jordan took place in 82 give or take a few months. So as it turns out if the dayschool was open in 82 and closed in 83 that puts the upheaval of the Nortons in the same window as the closure of the Day school. Why am I not surprised? It just so happens that Tanya graduated at the same time from the dayschool, possibly a year ahead of her class if you do the math on her supposed birthday. I can see Davis shutting it down and sending all the abused children to the Baptist school for them to deal with.
Don't worry about the critics Julie, if they get too annoying we'll just stop publishing their junk. You are not on trial on this blog. I'm not saying that we'll publish anything that a victim writes, but we'll give everyone the same courtesy and respect that we have given to others that have come forward. I'm not a judge or a jury that's here to place every statement made by a victim of abuse under scrutiny. We will do everything we can to verify the truth. From now on before we publish anything we will make sure that the abuse victim has no other recourse or legal avenue they can pursue before publishing stuff on this blog.
Again we did as much diligence on this blog to verify the stuff we published on this blog as anyone else does when a story broke on any other blog. MDR came to Chief with a whole Christmas bag full of dirt on the ntcc and Chief asked a lot of questions and got the stories straight before he published but when it was all said and done, many of the things shared were verified only by MDR. That's okay, I have no problem whatsoever with that. But very few people questioned him or interrogated him about the stuff he shared. Everyone accepted his testimony as true for the most part. For some reason when the subject matter changed to sexual abuse the critics came out of the wood works and started to accuse the victims of spreading lies. Not one of these accusers had any substance to present, but rather they were much like the Pharisees that accused Jesus. This man said he would destroy the temple and in three days build it again, so lets crucify him. Everything he said must be a lie. So we started verifying as much of the testimony as we could with the testimony of others and with the testimony of Joan St. Clair herself. Then the critics began to say, "some of what Julie said is a lie", but they still had no substantial evidence except for a few snarling individuals who said, "There is no way that one person could have gone through all that". Really? What about the victims of Warren Jeffs? Some of them went through hell on earth and couldn't get anyone to believe them. The entire town of Colorado City, TX is owned by the FLDS to include the police force.
Davis knew what he was doing when he confined young children to a single building for their education, church and bible school and all the other religious activities. Those children didn't know anything about going to the police, the only thing they were taught is that they would go to hell if they didn't do exactly what Davis told them to do.
Chief ran a great blog and I hope he opens it back up because he accomplishes more than he knows. We do things differently but about the only difference we have is how we deal with people on a personal level. I'm not saying I'm right and Chief is wrong, but we both have different approaches. I was glad when Jeff started blogging again, and if it were not for one disagreement about the scrutiny of contributors on our blog, things might have been like old times. I am sorry If I caused this riff, it was definitely not my intention, but I had to stick to my guns. I felt like the people who spilled their guts on this blog were being targeted as if they had to prove everything they said, while that standard did not apply to other contributors. Chief if you read this, I would rather have you keep your blog up and if the both of us could avoid this one topic out of the millions of other things that could be covered, I would be willing to avoid it. It has to be mutual, only because I want folks to feel comfortable and safe in what they are sharing on this blog. It hurt when you took our personal phone conversation and turned it into a blog topic in which more emphasis was placed on Pam's role as a 16 year old abuse victim than on Davis who should have gone to Jail or at the very least lost his position in the church for using his office to violate a minor. I've made my share of mistakes and I'm not perfect so I'm not trying to cast stones at you. I hope you will reconsider or perhaps take some time off and re-energize. Nobody does what you do as well as you do it.
This blog is not just a victims blog, it's here for anyone that wants help recovering from their ntcc cult experience. I'm not an expert, but I've learned a lot from the people who built this blog, and those are the ones who have contributed throughout the last five years. We are not making a penny off of this blog, we don't even run advertisements. We have nothing to gain. We are averaging close to 10,000 visitors a month now, and we probably could make some money if we wanted to, by advertising, but that's not what we are here for. We hope that people in the ntcc will read what people have shared and that some spark in their brain would ignite a little bit of conscience and that they will see what the ntcc is all about.
Anonymous said...
It's outrageous that these men spanked these kids.
DNA said:
It should be outrageous and your reaction is a normal reaction and should be everyone's reaction. The stuff that happened in the ntcc is so far from normal but so many people have looked the other way or made excuses. People should be totally outraged by the way children were treated in the ntcc day school. I would say that if 75% of the adult men in this country seen the way that Davis, Kekel and Ashmore treated children, they would take care of business themselves, and I mean deal out some serious physical abuse to these abusers. What took place in the ntcc was unexcusable and would never happen in a normal society. This is cult behavior to the max.
You are so right about some of the victims and xmembers being buddy buddy with the abusers in the ntcc. I think that many people see this tyrannical behavior as normal or 'not so bad' because they allowed themselves to accept it. I knew people in the military that would go along with anything, right or wrong, because they were worn down from fighting against the wrong and they just gave up. People in the ntcc are much the same. They walk around like they are 80% blind and they bump into a child beater and at the last minute they see what it is that they bumped into but than they walk around blindly in a different direction until they bump into a wife beater. Just before they bump into him their vision becomes clear enough to see what they are and they quickly shut their eyes and things become blurry again. Then They bump into a child molester or a pedophile and the same thing happens and they live their lives with their eyes closed, knowing what they are looking at but refusing to think about it, they remain mostly blind.
Hey D&A. I did read what you wrote. It was nice. It's not necessary that you post this unless you'd like. I'm just burn out on this whole NTCC thing. I'm really sick of it again. Yeah, we have different opinions on certain things but we both agree that the NTCC stinks to high heaven. No hard feelings here either. It is what it is. If something big comes up I may re-open the blog but it didn't take too long for me to get burnt out on the same old same old.
Thoughts of the NTCC and the people in it really annoy me and I find that I do better in life overall when I detach myself as much as I can from anything having to do with the NTCC. The NTCC can sometimes bring out the worst in us so I'd rather not deal with it. Later you guys, I'll be in touch.
Hey chief, isn't there just a way to keep your blog open and not allow to comment, just for people to read because there's a lot of stuff that people need to read and it seems that little by little people are coming out, just a thought.
Hi Mike,
Have you ever heard of Kubler-Ross's Five Stages of Grief Model? Look it up on Wikipedia. It helps explain each stage of grief.
She was a Swiss psychiatrist that was inspired by her work with the terminally ill. This Model not only helps explain the grief one goes through from a death of a loved one but also helps explain the stages of grief many of us EXers go through.
The 5 Stages of Grief are:
1.Denial, 2.Anger, 3.Bargaining, 4.Depression, 5.Acceptance.
This Model can be expanded to include any form of personal loss.
One may not go through every stage or go through the stages in the exact order.
Most folks will navigate through these stages and grief is a necessary reality after one has bought into the Moses/NTCC lie.
The anger you feel is actually a strength. It helps us put everything into perspective and clarify the wrongs that occurred to us. Anger can also motivate us to right that which we have done wrong to others while under NTCC influence. Anger can also motivate us to correct the wrongs that NTCC has done to us.
Mike, you are well on your way to healing. I was so hurt by NTCC that I couldn't remember the name of the cult for nearly 20 years. Then one day the named popped back into my mind and so did all the pain. I found Tracy Pelfry's blog and called her that day. We talked for hours and she affirmed what I had been through as the norm in NTCC. My pain and resentment started fading from that day. I now feel healed to the point that I can share with other EXers. Chief's and D/A's blogs have also played a huge part in my healing.
As Julie would say ~Hugs.
Joan B.
Question,
Did Davis and the big wigs teach that Police Officers can't get saved and can't go to heaven as long as they are officers? Mike Marshall taught this from the pulpit. I didn't know if it came from Davis or if this was some lie he made up.
Thanks
Joan, I've heard of this model or at least something like it.
I would say I started with Depression until I saw the internet had some blogs on the NTCC not really being a religious org but a real estate company. This peaked my interest and so I read everything I could... Found out about the split with Denis which I didn't think was possible in this Org. Why would someone leave when Moses part 2 is leading it after all? My split was in no way as painful as many of those on this blog. I just happened to get stationed away from a church in a small post in Korea and just fell away. It was my wife who was depressed throughout her stay there that pushed me into not going when I got back stateside. It didn't take much as I was burned out from all the never ending activities. Underneath I was worried about hell, future children going to hell, hell, hell, hell...
So for over a decade I thought about getting back in somehow. When I started my research and realized the scam, the abuse, the waste of some pretty good years and now I'm just fed up. Wasting time is something you can't be given back. Money that I gave is being used by perverted, abusive, disgusting people which really gets my blood boiling. Then to find out all of your stories. It's almost too much.
At least I've come out of the fog though.
Mike
Chief said...
Hey D&A. I did read what you wrote.
DNA said:
Thanks Chief. I'll call you sometime and talk about football, bowling, golf or whatever. Thanks for always being there.
Anonymous said...
Hey chief, isn't there just a way to keep your blog open and not allow to comment, just for people to read because there's a lot of stuff that people need to read and it seems that little by little people are coming out, just a thought.
DNA said:
Just because Chief is taking a break from the comments, doesn't mean that his blog can't be accessed. There is a lot of really good material on his blog going back 7 years or so. If you go back and read some of the early posts on his blog you will find a lot of testimony from former and current ministers and a lot stories that will blow your mind, like the 39 acre land deal, the denis split and other things of historic significance. It's worth it also to read GS/DS blog. Theirs has links to documents, FACTNET, copies of the Pelfry's blog and lots and lots of good material. A link to GS/DS blog can be found in ours or Jeff's sidebar. All of our blogs together is like an encyclopedia of what the ntcc is all about.
Don and Ange said....
"Don't worry about the critics Julie, if they get too annoying we'll just stop publishing their junk. You are not on trial on this blog"
Julie says...
Oh I am not talking of critics on the blog I am referring to those that contact me personally when ever they think I am made a grammar, punctuation, or date etc. an error. Not in a courtesy but a fault finding way.
Speaking of how people can be. It is amazing how many people went from being a supporter to jump the fence into Ashmore's camp. I had people that requested that I remove his name from every comment and post I have had a part in that has his name in it. When I said that wouldn't happen they blocked me on facebook. Some plainly won't speak to me or will only respond if I comment on something on Facebook. I am told to put the past in the past or that Ashmore's actions are someone else's fault or how his feelings have been hurt for speaking about him. When people started dropping like flies off of Facebook or started being rude to me after being so supportive it crushed my heart. I think what made it hurt the most was I had opened my heart like never before. I felt like my heart had been rung out like a useless rag. Someone told me during all this that told Don and Ange regretted support me and were talking behind my back. With others' reactions I began to believe it. It left me depressed and withdrawal from anything but my responsibilities in life for the most part. I was sitting in my living room one night and something came to mind. The funny thing was it was something Ange had told me once. (Forgive me if the wording is a little off) She said something to the affect of "You can't always count on people but you can always count on God". In that moment I said Okay God I am not sure how people feel about me but right now all that matters to me is am I okay with you. I turned on some music which I hadn't done in days. Anyone that knows me well knows that is odd since music is an important thing to me. The answer I needed came in the first song I heard that night. "He Knows My Name" by Francesca Battistelli.
This is for the one that may feel that God doesn't care about them or that they are out of reach of God. I want you to know God knows your name and he loves you unconditionally. You are his wanted child and you are not alone.
It wasn't easy to share my life with the whole world but if it has woken up a few or help someone. I give all my thanks to God for the strength to speak for without him I would still be silent victim.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcmOrvDOvXA
Hugs,
Julie
Anonymous said...
Question,
Did Davis and the big wigs teach that Police Officers can't get saved and can't go to heaven as long as they are officers? Mike Marshall taught this from the pulpit. I didn't know if it came from Davis or if this was some lie he made up.
DNA said:
I don't remember Davis saying that specifically but I remember other teachings that remind me of that. Like, you can't be a used car salesman and make it to heaven. I think I heard that Davis at some point in his life was a used car salesman. Chief sold used cars at one point and Jones tried to tell him that he couldn't be a Christian and a used car salesman at the same time. There is a movie called Flywheel where a used car salesman/con artist got saved and started selling more cars at lower prices and made more money and felt much better about his profession.
I'm not surprised that Marshall preached that kind of Garbage. He might of heard it from Davis at one time or another or he might of got the idea from Davis. To me it's one of the stupidest things I've ever heard. If anything is true, I'd say it would be more difficult to be an ntcc preacher and get to heaven than any other profession on the planet.
Think about it. How can you preach the things that these ntcc ministers preach and go to heaven? The bible warns us of false prophets and doctrines of devils like forbidding to marry. How can you go to heaven when you are an ntcc preacher and forbidding people to get married? In 1 Tim 4, Paul talks about them speaking lies in hypocrisy and Forbidding to Marry. If an ntcc preacher forbids church members to get married that is a doctrine of the devil.
In 1 Tim 6:5: Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
We are supposed to withdraw ourselves from these prosperity preachers, not go over to their mansions and clean their house for them, or wash their expensive cars for them. God will bless you brother, just like he blessed Pastor Davis, or Pastor Kekel, if you serve the Lord just like them. No he won't bless you. You brought nothing into this world and you will take nothing out with you. They might have conned a bunch of GI's out of their money and got rich on this earth doing so, but they are not going to take one red penny with them. At some point they are going to be ushered into the presence of God and have to give an account for their false doctrine and their lies, and their corrupt thievery. That's what they tried to warn us about, that we would be the ones that God would judge for not paying our tithe or not living up to their man made standards, but when it all comes down to it, they are the ones that have used and abused people to get where they are at.
How can you be an ntcc preacher and preach tithe or hell and then send your member's money to a bunch of rich ungrateful money grubbing hypocrites so they can upgrade their mansions, RVs, Cars and furnishings while the common church member can barely afford to pay rent or utilities and has to live off of a slashed grocery budget to accommodate someone elses lavish living? I'd much rather take my chances as a used car salesman or a police officer than to try to be an ntcc preacher and make it to heaven.
Anonymous said...
Question,
Did Davis and the big wigs teach that Police Officers can't get saved and can't go to heaven as long as they are officers?
DNA said:
Thank you Anonymous, that's a great topic for our next blog post. To whoever is in charge of the ntcc damage control patrol, you might want to preach some hell and damnation to your churches and members to keep them off of our blog, because this topic should make anyone with half a brain think about what it really means to be an ntcc preacher.
Julie said:
Someone told me during all this that told Don and Ange regretted support me and were talking behind my back. With others' reactions I began to believe it.
DNA said:
Julie, we are sorry that people are giving you a hard time. You have shared more personal information on our blog than anyone else. We got tons of comments that we never published saying we shouldn't listen to you and calling you all kinds of names that I can't repeat. We also got a bunch of hateful comments directed at us for publishing your testimony. I had a lot of friends in the ntcc when I was in and many of them have contacted me. They spoke to me one time and we reminisced about all the good times we had and then they dropped my like a hot potato.
We love and support you Julie and after what you went through, you don't deserve to be treated the way these people are treating you. I know it's probably partially our fault for publishing what we did, but there are a lot of people on this blog that support you for speaking out. We don't talk to anyone on the phone with a very few exceptions. Very seldom have we spoken to anyone on the phone about you or through email correspondence, Facebook or any other medium. If we have it has been favorable. If you have any specifics and you want to clear anything up, hit us up on Facebook.
I think that the things you shared were very damaging to the ntcc and they have a history of driving wedges between people. Believe it or not we are people of like passions and we have to deal with the aftermath of what the ntcc has done to us. One of our defense mechanisms is we try not to become attached to other survivors who blog about the ntcc. We are very private people and cherish our time together. Running this blog also seems like a balancing act because people expect a lot from you. We try to be fair to people but at the same time, some think fairness means to interrogate victims that suffer from being sexually abused, while others that share stories of common topics are not required to be scrutinized at all. Sometimes it feels like we are walking on eggshells. We try to keep blogging out of our personal lives and spend time together as much as possible. While the blog is our passion, it's hard to find time for a personal life and cherished times together, blogging and spending a lot of personal time with others.
This doesn't mean that we don't love and care about you Julie or anyone else. You have spilled your guts and because of that people are now aware that their kids are in danger in the ntcc. We have people on the inside that read and comment on this blog and for every one of those, there are always some who are not ready to comment but at some point they will be. If we said anything about you it was of good report, not backbiting. We have defended you on this blog and off the blog. I hate that people are out there trying to sabotage everything that we have accomplished together. If there is one thing that I've learned in the ntcc is that God is a good God and the devil is a bad devil. That's universal and it applies to everyone. Some might not believe that, but I do. I believe if it's good it comes from God. God allows it to happen. Perhaps not everything that seems bad comes from the devil, but who cares if he gets the blame for all the bad things. I know it rains on the just and unjust and God allows fortune and misfortune to happen to us all, but when people are outright divisive towards us without a cause, they are guilty of drinking a Dr. Pepper with the devil. That's just my opinion, please don't shoot me anyone.
Julie says....
"Yes Tanya Kekel graduated from the Day school in St.Louis Missouri and then it was closed down since she was the main purpose for it according to Verna Davis (her mother. I heard that from Verna's own mouth. Yes I attended it in my early years and Joan St.Clair taught in it as well."
DNA say,
Maybe tanya reynolds davis (kekel) was being molested by rodger davis too? After all, he adopted her. Knowing how that sicko thinks, everyone in his world is only allowed there if they do something for him like pay tithe or whatever. davis was certainly a user. It would not surprise us to learn that he was also fondling young tanya. A day school would keep her away from those pesky public school teachers trained to spot and report abuse to police... There are several girls who have shared being molested by davis. They have also testified of knowledge of other girls around during those days suffering similarly. So it wouldn't surprise us if it were discovered that davis did such perverse things to tanya too.
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