D'Mario said...
My wife and I started reading your blog about a year ago. We struggled a lot with stuff that we read trying to decide if you were just bitter people that didn't get what you wanted in N.T.C.C. or had great reason to believe they were not of God.
About 18 months ago we were sent out to be helpers in a work. The pastor there was quite harsh to me and my wife. Calling us out in services when we were not doing what he wanted us to do. Getting mad when my youngest on a Saturday night service would fall asleep after such a long day. To give you an idea my youngest was nursery age at the time. The pastor's wife would belittle my wife making fun of her in front of our children while I was at work. This really upset my oldest because I had taught him how to honor his mother. It got so bad I finally called Rev. Kekel not knowing what else to do. He told me to stop wining and like a baby and I need to grow up and get with the program. I was so hurt no one cared.
About 7 months ago one of my children began to run a high fever and was really sick. I called the pastor where I am at and said I am not sure my wife will be able to come tomorrow to Saturday soul-winning. He got angry and said that if she doesn't come there would not be enough women to pair up evenly. When I insisted my child needed my wife, he then threat to report me to Rev. Kekel. My wife stressed out because Rev. Kekel had already told us we could never miss anything about church and soul-winning even for our children. She told me if she didn't go it she would be disobeying the man of God and God would punish us. She was feared God's punish on our family. So she, all the kids, and I went soul-winning. Right before that night's service my child got really bad. We decided to take her into the ER. I called the pastor. He told me I was to drop off my wife and child and I and the other children were to come to church. He had no concern at all. I told him no I am going to be with my family they need me. My daughter was in the hospital for two days. That pastor nor Rev. Kekel seemed to care. I got yelled at for missing all services that weekend. My wife and I took turns being in the room while the other took care of the other children. I only worked a half a day Tuesday so I could bring my child home. We tried to make it work for another couple of weeks but it only got worse so one weekend we just didn't attend anything. In fact that weekend we went to the zoo for the first time as a family. My children had never seen a bear up close so it was thrilling to see them so excited.
One thing I was surprised with us leaving was my oldest told me I am so glad we don't have to go back. I hated that place.
I am glad you put out so much information on your blog it helps my family to feels good about our decision. It also lets me know when my gut told not to trust certain people to care for my children while in bible school I wasn't being overly caution. They probably won't trust worthy. It must be hard to share ugly information but without I don't think I would have believed God was okay with us leaving.
To all those that think we don't love God. We still have family talks about God and the bible. We even sing songs about God. The only difference now is my family is first.
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D'Mario's Children were thrilled to see the bear while His oldest said,
"I'm so glad we don't have to go back, (to the ntcc), I hated that place."
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But the best lesson of all that can be learned from this story is how a man and his family used this abusive behavior by their fellow worker, a so-called pastor, to find their way to freedom. In fact, my favorite part of this whole comment was how they stopped attending ntcc cult meetings and went on a family trip to the zoo. I guarantee they got more out of that as a family than they ever would have received from that abusive jerk that masquerades as a pastor. People like that guy are tyrants that love to hear themselves and they take pleasure in jacking people up and making others as miserable as they are inside. They might pretend to be saved; but their actions speak much louder than words; and you are much better off removing yourself from the company of such hypocrites than you are subjecting yourselves to their abuse.
D'Mario never said who the abusive jerk so-called pastor and fellow minister was that treated D'Mario's family like they were his slaves who were to be in subjection to him. But shortly after D'Mario's comment published we got a bunch of comments streaming in about how abusive Keith Gandy was/is. We also received an anonymous comment that the author requested we did not post, and one of the things shared was that Gandy had run off several families and that he treated children terribly. If you are a minister in any organization and you are sent to help another minister and anyone in your family gets sick, don't ask that nutcase anything. Take care of your family. Call and tell that Cretin that you are going to take care of your family; and if he doesn't have enough women to match up then tell him to get up off his lazy butt and match up with his own wife and go soul winning. When a child has a high temperature that is not something you want to mess with. Your number one concern should be with your family as it was with D'Mario. There have been others that have neglected their child's health and listened to idiots like Davis who told them not to go to the emergency room; and we have heard that some have suffered permanent damage. I believe Julie and Lisa both were not taken to hospitals when they should have been; and because of that they are dealing with much more severe problems later in life than they should. I think Lisa shared that if she would have received treatment for some of her medical issues when she was a child that she would not be going through life threatening medical emergencies that she now has to go through.
Take care of your children. It's amazing to me that people will listen to morons like Gandy who have never raised children, and allow them to give them advice on how to raise their kids. Gandy shouldn't even be around children in my opinion because he doesn't care about them. Gandy is just one shining example of how abusive a person could be. Stay away from these ntcc lifers, they are dangerous to the health and welfare of your children.
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| Victim's of Spiritual Abuse often compare their trauma to rape. The damage is real and can turn people away from God. Do yourself a favor and free your family from an abusive environment that calls itself a church and find a real group of Christians who love in deed. |
D'Mario never said who the abusive jerk so-called pastor and fellow minister was that treated D'Mario's family like they were his slaves who were to be in subjection to him. But shortly after D'Mario's comment published we got a bunch of comments streaming in about how abusive Keith Gandy was/is. We also received an anonymous comment that the author requested we did not post, and one of the things shared was that Gandy had run off several families and that he treated children terribly. If you are a minister in any organization and you are sent to help another minister and anyone in your family gets sick, don't ask that nutcase anything. Take care of your family. Call and tell that Cretin that you are going to take care of your family; and if he doesn't have enough women to match up then tell him to get up off his lazy butt and match up with his own wife and go soul winning. When a child has a high temperature that is not something you want to mess with. Your number one concern should be with your family as it was with D'Mario. There have been others that have neglected their child's health and listened to idiots like Davis who told them not to go to the emergency room; and we have heard that some have suffered permanent damage. I believe Julie and Lisa both were not taken to hospitals when they should have been; and because of that they are dealing with much more severe problems later in life than they should. I think Lisa shared that if she would have received treatment for some of her medical issues when she was a child that she would not be going through life threatening medical emergencies that she now has to go through.
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| Does MyNTCC org Hide Abusers as long as those Abusers send money and/or people to the NTCS seminary? |
Take care of your children. It's amazing to me that people will listen to morons like Gandy who have never raised children, and allow them to give them advice on how to raise their kids. Gandy shouldn't even be around children in my opinion because he doesn't care about them. Gandy is just one shining example of how abusive a person could be. Stay away from these ntcc lifers, they are dangerous to the health and welfare of your children.
The ntcc is one of the worst places on planet earth to raise children. Just ask an ntcc parent who raised their children in the ntcc. Ask Cyrius how beating his infant for hours worked for him. Where is Grant Kekel right now? He's a sinner according to dead Davis. Many of the children raised in the ntcc departed as soon as they were old enough to think for themselves and smell freedom. That's why the board members always married off their children as soon as they were of legal age. They wanted to enslave their daughters to older men for the rest of their lives before they could think for themselves. They were groomed as young teens 13 and sometimes younger to fantasize about which 20 something year old preacher would you like to marry. And many were married off as soon as they turned 16 years old. The ntcc is a very sick and unhealthy place to raise your children.
Do your families a favor and escape before they become victims of this sick organization. Do you want your children to be raised like monkeys in a carnival or circus? Get them out of the ntcc as soon as possible before they become the next generation of victims. And even if you don't have children, and maybe you aren't even married, don't become a victim of ntcc abuse. If you are a licensed minister, working in an ntcc church, that local church's pastor has no spiritual authority over you. He is not supposed to 'lord it over you' or boss you around. He should be a friend. If he can't handle that, he should not have you as a helper. "Period." Listen to what the Word of God says,
Jesus calls us His Friends. If He can humble Himself to call us friends, your fellow-ministers should too. They should not be so puffed-up in pride that they don't even want you to call them by their first name. Can you imagine Jesus, The LORD and Maker of All rebuking someone for calling Him by His first name? LOL! Jesus, we believe, is loving and fun to be around, not on some pride trip. People who demand respect never give it back. Respect has to be mutual. You are both ministers. And we are all supposed to be children of God. Don't let somebody treat you like their whipping boy. If they try that, just leave them alone. Let them be. It isn't the Spirit of Christ directing them to treat you poorly. If they are calling you insulting names, or trying to blame you by saying you need to change, just leave. You are better off with the Word of God and a cup of Joe.
But Jesus called them [unto him], and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. - Mat 20:25 KJV
But it shall not be so among you: ... - Mat 20:26 KJV
Jesus calls us His Friends. If He can humble Himself to call us friends, your fellow-ministers should too. They should not be so puffed-up in pride that they don't even want you to call them by their first name. Can you imagine Jesus, The LORD and Maker of All rebuking someone for calling Him by His first name? LOL! Jesus, we believe, is loving and fun to be around, not on some pride trip. People who demand respect never give it back. Respect has to be mutual. You are both ministers. And we are all supposed to be children of God. Don't let somebody treat you like their whipping boy. If they try that, just leave them alone. Let them be. It isn't the Spirit of Christ directing them to treat you poorly. If they are calling you insulting names, or trying to blame you by saying you need to change, just leave. You are better off with the Word of God and a cup of Joe.
Respect by Aretha Franklin on YouTube
53 comments:
I have to tell you this. I am the person that told you that many left under Rev Gandys ministry and that the truth. The ministry that he's been in for the past 8 years he's currently still in. This location is a military service mans work. I gave never seen a helper with children come to help. I know that for a fact. Please find out from this writer to make sure of this story. I personal can tell you that I have seen him talk to other helpers wife not so nicely and even the members roughly. I agree that tithing is a big thing for him and he's not afraid to blast anyone. He's not really great with kids and his wife also is not a kids person and that's a fact A lot of devoted members left under his ministry. Most of which still lives in the same area but goes to other churches.
Thank you anonymous, we appreciate your comment. We didn't mean to imply that D'Mario went to the Church in Jacksonville, in fact I think that we mentioned that D'Mario didn't say which Pastor they were talking about. We mentioned the Gandy's because after we posted this comment from D'Mario we got a lot of comments from people that suggested that Gandy was a lot like the Pastor that D'Mario mentioned. Sorry for the confusion and we hope that we didn't imply that Gandy was Pastor that D'Mario spoke of. D'Mario did not name the pastor and for all we know D'Mario might or might not be the actual name of the person who blogged about their experience in the ntcc. We assume that it is their name but there are times when people have used aliases on the blog to protect the identity of their family. We have no reason to believe or disbelieve their identity and we do not know who the pastor of the church that they were assigned to was. As Bryan Hill shared in the last comment he left on the Ashmore thread, your average or typical ntcc pastor has very little if any humility and I will add that most are led by example to be proud, arrogant and abusive.
Every pastor I ever had in the organization had some of the qualities of Gandy. Gandy is more on the extreme side when you look at ministers in terms of being full of pride and acting like the sun rises and sets at their beckoning command. The whole universe has to rotate around the proud ntcc pastor or a fuse will be ignited and they will explode on anyone that rubs them wrong. If someone calls Kekel for a little support, he will degrade them, because Kekel is the same way himself. Can you find what ingredient is missing in this picture? Love is the first one that comes to mind. If you want to know Jesus, you have to separate yourselves from people that are abusive and hateful. This may take a little time if you are trying to keep your family in tact but eventually you will be free from verbal abuse and free to pursue God with your own heart, unblemished by false ntcc doctrine and man made rules.
The average ntcc preacher has been taught through the actions of people like Kekel and Davis to be hateful and to preach angry messages of hate and abuse towards their congregants. They are trying to obtain perfection and they don't have the peace that comes through humility. The Love that Jesus displayed is non existent in their lives so they have to compensate by using manipulative tactics that instill fear into the hearts of their members. It's strange how people will except the opposite of love and peace as a replacement. Hate and fear replace love and peace in the ntcc. These are opposite emotions that do not coexist but because the ntcc pastor is not able to win people with love and peace, he gets behind the pulpit and spews out threats and judgement to get people to follow them. That is why the ntcc is so unsuccessful at keeping good people in the organization. It really is all about money and numbers. It's not about helping folks.
I was reading the book of John this morning and I read chapter 13:29 "For some of them thought, because Judas had the bag, that Jesus had said unto him, Buy those things that we have need of against the feast; or, that he should give something to the poor."
We don't read about Jesus paying or collecting tithe anywhere. One might believe from this passage that it was a regular practice for Jesus to give to the poor. We know he healed the poor and sick, and performed miracles for them. In the ntcc they hate the poor and do nothing for them. They are the opposite to what Jesus was and that is why people blog against them and many desire to leave.
I am the D'Mario that you speak about here. No Gandy was not the pastor nor have I been in a church he has pastored. I have heard bad things about him though. D'Mario is my middle name. My wife and I are not comfortable at this time to share our last name because we know people will verbally attack and harass us. We are not yet as strong as some of you. Please forgive us for that. Don and Ange thank you for your support. Even though we did not given any names we hope this will let people know they are not alone and it is not their fault some people are so mean. The road to heal seems so long. Sorry to all that we have disappointed in not sharing more we just can't right now.
Thank you for explaining this to me. Much appreciated. I totally understand if that person didn't want to drop name or maybe one day he/she will. My prayers are for the ones still in that's they may see the truth isn't day. I have discovered this myself and yes we have to do things wisely for those of us still in and seeking for wisdom to maintain the family while doing. D'Mario thank you for sharing things that seem to be common with church members getting these treatment. If you are a helper I'm praying for you too.
Yes I told my spouse this also that mo eg and numbers seem to be a focus as well. I can share stories after stories concerning money and how it really motivate people such as ministers. I'm sure some preach the gospel without money as their get upsey.
D'Mario said:
"The road to heal seems so long. Sorry to all that we have disappointed in not sharing more we just can't right now."
DNA said:
That's alright. We are just glad you got out and you are figuring all this out. The longer a person stays in a cult, the more damage is done to them. I know some might push you for more details but it's obvious to me that you are wanting to share what you've been through but you aren't up to the scrutiny that can come with that. We understand that and are just glad that you are free and your children are safe.
We really appreciate your testimony and we will respect your wishes. We believe that testimonies like yours help other people that are in similar situations. There are people that read this blog that are still in the ntcc and waiting for their Spouse or loved ones to leave with them. That's a hard position to be in but it's helpful for them to know that they are not alone. Don't let anyone make you feel obligated to rush things or to share things that you are not ready to share. It took a lot of us much longer to get to where you are now and there are different stages of growth that a recovering cult member must go through. It's like any other recovery program. First folks have to realize that they are in a cult, and until that happens, there is not much that can be done to help them, except to just be a friend to them and let them know you care.
We hope that the people on this blog and others will be a friend to those who are working their way through this process. Don't try to force anything, just pray and allow time and God to replace the false doctrine with His real love and care for your family. You are on your way!
Once again, D'Mario never said he was in Gandy's church. We used Gandy as an example of the type of minister that D'Mario was assigned to help. We've heard similar stories about Gandy through the years and we wanted to use him as an example in this blog post of someone who is not Christ-like and uses fear and hate to keep people in line, unlike Jesus who used Love and kindness to win His disciples. Nowhere in this blog post has anyone shared that Gandy was the minister that D'Mario spoke of. We are sorry if you got that impression, but we didn't mean to imply that.
D'Mario, I have to disagree with you! You and your wife ARE strong as some as us!
Don and Ange
My wife and I looked at the picture of the two people hobbling away from church. That about sums it up! The grievous part is friends will see you verbally assaulted THEN kick you to the curb because you left.
How many people wpuld put up with that type of treatment from a spouse, parent, or employer? If my employer said half the things an ntcc preacher said to me I would rich from suing his BUTT!
In fact one lady did get rich because some so-called penetcostal minister lied about her after she left.
http://www.macon.com/2010/07/07/1187436/500k-awarded-in-slander-lawsuit.html
i wish an ntcc pastor would!
D'Mario I really am glad you shared what you and your family went through. I pray for your healing journey. When I shared I had been out a whole lot longer then you. I commend your braver to reach out. May you and your family have many happy days together as you learn the true meaning to life.
Hugs,
Julie
This is not an isolated case. Pretty much all of the ntcc pastors are abusive to some degree even when they don't try to be. I had 14 pastors in the ntcc in 13 years and every one of them was taught by R.W. Davis and many were taught by Kekel. Some of them had good dispositions and they treated people decently for the most part, but when they were pressured by financial matters they would do what was necessary to make people get with the program. When someone like Davis gets in your head, it takes a lot of unlearning to treat that kind of virus.
Davis and Kekel were never sincere. There are ministers in the ntcc that are sincere and I believe they are trying to reach people for God. Not only is there a struggle from without but there is a struggle from within that is greater. To do things right in the ntcc, you have to circumvent the actual cult teachings, programs and rules that war against the fruit of the spirit and the laws of God. You can't serve God and Mammon. You can't tell people that they are going to die and go to hell for not paying their tithe and then collect their tithe and give it to a bunch of hypocrites that are getting rich off of it. You can't teach on the love of God and then be angry with your brother without a cause.
Do you like parables? Well here is a parable: The ntcc is like unto a certain poor man that was promised by a rich politician that if he would support him financially and vote for him and tell his friends to vote for him that he would create a new law that would take care of him for the rest of his life. So the poor man gave everything he had stashed away and money that he should have spent providing the basic needs of his family to the rich politician. He went out and got all his friends to the polls and promised them and his family that if we elect this man he will take care of us and we will never have to worry again. The rich politician got elected. The rich politician forgot his promise to the poor man and became exceedingly rich while the poor man was broken in his heart and spirit and gave up on believing in people. The poor man found himself begging and without friends or family and was contemplating death when he seen a sign on a little church building that said "Come pray with us". The rich Politician reached the highest point in his life and spent money with no regard of waste and was on top of the world when the police surrounded him and slapped a pair of handcuffs on him and hauled him off to jail to be tried for several counts of embezzlement and fraud. The poor man meekly went into the church and found peace and love in God, while the rich politician cursed God from his jail cell, and blamed God for the predicament he was now in.
Now that might seem a little extreme, but what side would you rather be on. The rich hypocrites side or the poor repentant sinners side. What side was Jesus on, the rich hypocrites side or the poor repentant sinner's side.
If you take a good look at the ntcc, you will find that the leadership is corrupt and many of the long time pastors and teachers are corrupt. There will always be people that hunger for truth and salvation but the organization is not structured to benefit the ones that Jesus died for, but rather to benefit the rich hypocrites that act a lot like politicians. It's like setting up a homeless shelter at the city dump and exposing all the homeless people to disease and sicknesses.
I was witness to the harsh ways of Rev. Cyrius with his son. He even taught his members and others to be that hard on their own children. It was awful that I didn't step in. I just thought didn't know how to raise kids right. Folks if you see this happening do those kids a favor and report it. This is abuse plainly.
Cyrius was definitely an abuser and he used scriptures to justify wailing on his infant.
Prov. 22:15 "Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him."
Maybe Kekel should have spent more time driving the foolishness out of his son, but Cyrius was trying to "drive the devil out" of his son. He thought that if he beat his one year old enough the devil would eventually leave, but apparently that never happened.
The ntcc would take many of the Old Testament scriptures like tithe and the rod of correction and they would use those scriptures as if they were the only scriptures in the bible that dealt with that subject. They would focus on Old Testament tithe and forget about New Testament cheerful giving. They would focus on the rod of correction and forget about loving your children. "If Davis said it, I believe it and that settles it", seemed to be what people in the ntcc lived by and they used no common sense or other scriptures to support what they believed in.
People get arrested in grocery stores for spanking their children, but cult leaders usually get away with it because cult members accept everything they do as biblical. In Ashmore's church they believe in the blood moon doctrine, which means that terrible things are going to happen when you see the third blood moon in the succession of four blood moons. They are calling harvest moons blood moons now. This came about in the last few years because nutcases like Mathew Meinecke have made this doctrine up. Harvest moons have been around since the beginning of time, but in Revalation, Joel and Acts it talks about the sun being turned into darkness and the moon being turned into blood. End of time preachers are now using the Blood Moon theology to scare people into thinking that these are the last days. If the Harvest moon was actually the "blood moon" than why isn't the sun being changed into darkness? If it quacks like a duck.....
The Blood Moon doctrine all by itself should send up a red flag and warn you to avoid Ashmore's church.
Jesus said in Mat. 12:39
"But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:"
There is also a theory that was brought forth by John Hagee based on end of time false prophesies that a series of four lunar eclipses that started on April 15, 2014(tax day) and end on September 28th, 2015, is now the same as the blood moon in Revelation. This a bunch of hogwash and proof that Ashmore and his associate pastor Meinecke are using end of times preaching to create panic in people so that they will be more willing to give their hard earned cash to them. It would require total ignorance to believe in this doctrine. First you would have to believe that the rapture already took place and then you would have to believe that Revelation chapter 6 would have to take place 4 times, one for each blood moon, but you would have to ignore the fact that the sun wasn't turned black. There would also be stars cast down to the earth and islands and mountains being moved out of their places. All the kings of the earth, the rich men, the great men and the mighty men would be hiding in the rocks begging for the mountains to come down on top of them. The Pale horse and him that sat on him whose name was death would be released to kill a forth part of the earth with the sword, hunger, beasts of the earth and death.
A simple question. Is all this happening now? The bible only talks about one blood moon and not 4 in succession, so if Meinecke and Ashmore actually believe this stuff, you'd have to be an absolute nutcase to follow them.
[Eph 4:14 KJV] 14 That we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;
Folks, at some point in your life, and in your Christian walk with God, you have to grow up. Be no more children. Recognize that God wants you to be a grown man or a grown woman of God. Don't be tossed to and fro. Don't be blown about by the false doctrine of false prophets who lie in wait to deceive. They are out there. And they are using cunning craftiness to deceive. And they are waiting for anyone too naive to read the bible, too willing to allow others to do the thinking for them. Stop. Think. Apply the Word of God to your life and your decisions. Ask if Jesus would approve of the doctrine and of your actions. Don't be fooled.
I remember at the servicemns home we used to talk about the preaching and we would call it " plow our fields"
Sometimes we would laugh and try to not affect us because if we didn't we would get depressed, maybe it was a defense mechanism on our part.
We would try to make light of it by saying " oh yeah ,the John Deere tractor passed through and it really plowed me good!"
I heard some the preachers in the org. have been known to "choose" your future spouse for you.
Getting your fields plowed and getting raked over the coals were popular phrases in the ntcc. It's a shame that it was almost like getting a purple heart in the ntcc if you got your fields plowed. Brothers would brag about it like it was a badge of honor. There were so many times where we would get plowed and really never did anything to deserve it and we would laugh it off like it was a normal part of being a Christian.
It's not normal to get jacked up and then have someone knock the blocks out from under you, but that was how it felt. If someone was a day late with their tithe they would get taken to the woodshed and get a beating from their master, I mean pastor. Usually in the ntcc when someone got plowed it was by some insecure jerk that wanted to act like Davis and throw his weight around. Often the types that jacked people up were insecure and not comfortable with who they were in God, spiritual 99 pound weaklings like Kekel.
While this makes my blood boil I can't help but say well done sir for taking care of your Family!!!
ANON MIKE!!!
HOAHHH
The one time I got jacked up by old RW was for telling him that his (underage) girl was getting too cozy with mck in the fellowship hall. I didn't really even think of the underage element. He was really rebuking me for correcting him on a difference of opinion of how long a bro had been on the payphone, but made sure that the amourous duo were in the room with me as he jacked me up. From then on I knew that the game was up. This guy was a complete fraud.
Don,
Loved he parable but I would only change one thing. Since the upper echelon take no responsibility for their own actions, he wouldn't be cursing God. He would be blaming the Devil till the end of eternity for tempting him with all that wealth and power. Thus causing him to break the law and then loose favor with God. Remember, it is always the Devil or someone else that is responsible for their hideous actions.
Joan B.
Anonymous said...
While this makes my blood boil I can't help but say well done sir for taking care of your Family!!!
DNA said:
You are not alone Mike. A lot of people feel the same way. We are glad this guy got his family out of that hateful organization. The ntcc is a sleazy incorporated business that cons people out of their money so that a few select families can benefit. It's easy to hate a group like that, and it's natural to hate what they have done. In spite of hating what they are all about, we try to help whoever will listen to us find their way out of that mouse maze. It's almost like an adult role playing psychological video game. They are in a huge dungeon trying to find their way out, but every time they get close some ntcc warlord shoots them with a poisonous dart and tells them to turn around and go back where they came from. If they would keep going they would find freedom but in their mind there is no way out. They keep having to go back to level one and work their way through all the levels only to get shot down when they are so close to finding their way out.
Brother D. said:
"From then on I knew that the game was up. This guy was a complete fraud."
DNA said:
There was no such thing as correcting RW. People that think they are perfect will not receive correction from a friend, a loved one or even God. R-Dub could have humbled himself and admitted that he had short comings or that he was not always perfect, but he chose to make statements like, "I can't remember the last time he sinned". There are a lot of women who can remember the last time he sinned, vividly.
Narcissism is a mental disorder and it's victims create a world around them where they are above reproof. They can constantly cast the speck of dust out of your eye, but they can never see the beam in their own eye. All of your sins are fair game to bring out during a conference but if anyone were to say anything negative about ole R-dub, he would get seriously offended and walk around with the mulligrubs pouting all day. I remember when he got jacked up by the oneness preacher next door to the home in Fayetteville, NC. I'm not sure what that preacher said to him, but he was stomping around and looked like someone stole his marble collection. R-Dub got steaming mad and nobody could come near him except the the pastor of the Servicemen's home who was trying to console him.
To this day, I don't know what the old retired oneness preacher said to R-dub but I've never seen anyone get so offended and stay offended for so long as he did that day. RW is used to everyone bowing down to him or kissing up to him. He doesn't know how to deal with someone who treated him the same way that he treated others and when it came from outside the sphere of his own control, all he could do is get steaming mad. Kekel is a narcissist and he treats all of you ntcc preachers like you don't deserve to breath the same air that he does. If you want to see the top of his head blow off go up to him and slap him on the back and say, "How's it going Mike? You got the victory today or are you bent out of shape because I called you by your first name?" Tell him you are on to him and that you are going to report him for fraud and tax evasion.
Joan B. said:
"He would be blaming the Devil till the end of eternity for tempting him with all that wealth and power."
DNA said,
You nailed it. You just never see Davis, Kekel, Olson or even Ashmore stepping forward and taking the blame for anything. It's beneath their dignity to admit that they are wrong. And when all else fails and there is nobody to shift the blame to, it's the devil's fault. Sometime's a brother or sister will get the blame for something that they never did. When it's discovered that the brother or sister had nothing to do with it, there is often no apologies because that would involve the narcissist admitting that they were wrong or made a mistake. So who get's the blame? The Devil. "Don't let the devil lie to you brother or sister". or "Don't let the devil beat you over the head with that".
The problem is that the ntcc leader is the devil, not the brother or sister that was wrongly accused. Not the young woman at bible school that got Jacked up for wearing a bow in her hair in front of all of the people she loved by Davis. The devil never had to lie to that young girl because Davis was the devil. Not the pregnant women that Davis blasted in the middle of conferences by pointing his finger at them while yelling at them for 'ruining their husbands ministries'. Those women weren't letting the devil beat them over the head, but the one they trusted, Davis, was the devil and he was the accuser of the brethren.
Many times the devil doesn't even have to get his hands dirty when he has people like Davis, Ashmore, Olson and Kekel to do his work for him. He already owns their souls, and while everyone is so enamored with how great they are, the devil pats them on the back and thanks them for making his job easier.
Not sure why, but Rev. Olivarez is on my mind this morning. Now he was one of the better ministers in the ntcc. I believe he is still in and when I knew him he seemed pretty sincere. I know he enforced the tithe doctrines and many other rules that he was brainwashed to follow but he always had human decency and treated people with respect. He also was pretty easy going, fun to be around and would allow people to be themselves without feeling the need to constantly jack them up.
I hope people like Brother and Sis. Olivarez find their way out of the ntcc. I know it's been about 3 decades for them but it's never too late to find an escape route out of the ntcc. Hopefully this comment will find it's way to one of his members and perhaps he'll do more than just criticize us for blogging and find out why we blog. Many long time ntcc'rs will read a comment or two and label us as God haters without really finding out for themselves why we and hundreds of others provide witness against the ntcc for being a harmful and destructive cult. The Olivarez's have seen many people come and go and there were a lot of good people that left. Many of the brothers in the home in Colorado are gone from the ntcc forever and not one will ever be visited. They are not gone because they were bad people or they hate God. God is able to keep people and he always will, but when people start dropping like flies in an organization like the ntcc, it's not because God can't keep them.
Some of you ministers in the ntcc ought to try reaching out to your former members who have left the borg and find out why. Don't classify them as God haters and place yourself on a pedestal thinking that you are one of the few that have survived. Show some love and reach out to some of the ones that have left and find out why.
Not sure why, but Rev. Olivarez is on my mind this morning.
He was my pastor (1st one at that) at Ft. Campbell. He had a good spirit for the most part. I liked him as a human.
Not so sure about the wife though. She had bought in to all the politics, clicks and so forth.
I agree with you in that I hope they get out.
ANON Mike
D/A,
My apologies for getting off topic and maybe you can dedicate a thread to it but I was wondering if you knew or had any intel how the conference went in terms of numbers? You guys seem to have your ears to the grindstone so I was hoping for good news in terms of dwindling numbers.
ANON MIKE
How many black women are wearing their hair natural in ntcc. Society seems to have been more accepting of this practice.
One time I wore my hair in beautiful waves and curls. When the pastor's wife saw me, she curled her lip in disgust. This was in the 90's, 00s
You could have fun with Olivarez. One time we got into an all out water fight with him. I started it by putting a rubberband on the sprayer in the kitchen sink so when he turned on the water it sprayed him in the gut. He knew it was me and came running with a glass of water to throw it at me and one of the brothers was waiting behind the doorway. I was bait and when Olivarez crossed the threshold a brother threw a bucket of water at him. That started a war and soon we were throwing pans of water at each other and even brought the garden hose with trigger sprayer into the house. We all ended up soaked.
We had some good times and made the best out of a bad situation. I thought Sister O. was alright also, never seemed to bother anyone like some of the nosey wives that couldn't keep out of the personal affairs of the brothers and sisters. Nichelle Tieman was a busy body, always worried about what was going on in everyones life so she could instigate trouble. Verna and Tanya were a lot like that also from what everyone says. I know Verna thought it was her business to ask me why I wasn't a millionaire with all the money I made as a Staff Sargent in the Army. If I knew better, I would have told her that I'm too busy making you and Davis rich to save anything.
Mike said:
"My apologies for getting off topic and maybe you can dedicate a thread to it but I was wondering if you knew or had any intel how the conference went in terms of numbers?"
DNA said:
No worries. The best I can tell is that the sanctuary was only half full on the campground. This is according to what one of our readers who is still in the ntcc shared with us. Not sure if it's second hand or third hand info, but it's the best we can do. If the ntcc wasn't so secretive about everything it wouldn't be a mystery which leads me to believe that the numbers were not that great.
You would think with the new Volley Ball Nets and the frisbees and footballs, and all the skits and workshops they now do that it would draw a few more people out, but I think it's still a strain for most people to come to conferences. The only ones that can afford it are some of the military and a few ministers that plunder their congregations for travel expenses.
Conferences are no longer mandatory probably because the ntcc was losing a lot of ministers during that period of time. Ministers would use that one week break as an opportunity to leave the organization. I remember when the Ballards left, they told me that I could tell the Overseers that they were leaving the ntcc and not coming back. They made their move during a conference and even invited me to come with them and I eventually did leave after that conference.
Conferences could have been a good thing but the ntcc made them too stressful and even with all the activities they now allow, who wants to become pulpit fodder for abusive jerks like Olson and Kekel? It made things really tight on everyone to make those trips twice a year. It often took me a couple months to get back on track after a conference and that's living from paycheck to paycheck as an E-5 and E-6 for most of my tenure.
Anonymous said:
"One time I wore my hair in beautiful waves and curls. When the pastor's wife saw me, she curled her lip in disgust. This was in the 90's, 00s"
DNA said:
You go ahead and wear your hair any way you want to. It's none of anyone's business how you wear your hair. Many women wear wigs and some with thin hair are told to wear wigs. If you love God you'll obey them that Lord over you. These people are way out of bounds telling women how they should wear their hair.
Did they have wigs back in the early church? I guess all of those women that had problems growing long and thick hair must have all been lost without God because they didn't have a phony rug to put on top of their head. I don't care if someone wears a wig but some of the board members wives to include Verna wear wigs so they can present a false appearance to everyone and act like their long flowing hair makes them better than everyone else. They are just a bunch of phony hypocrites. If you want to curl your hair don't let some busy body tell you anything. They probably looked at you funny because they were jealous that you looked better than they did. Those dirty looks that Tanya, Verna and Nichelle Tieman like to give are not something that is representative of Christianity. They are finding fault with you and their facial expressions are every bit as harmful as their words.
I know a woman who got cancer and had to shave her head. She was a Christian woman and there are pictures of her fellowshiping with people in her church. She was still loved by everyone and nobody to my knowledge tried to coerce her to wear a wig. Now, I would understand if she did want to wear one, but for her and her friends her Salvation had nothing to do with her hair, and I'm pretty sure that God is not going to send one of his daughters to hell because they lost their hair due to cancer. She was in a normal church that didn't live by a bunch of hypocritical standards.
All this talk about former conferences reminds me of a conference I attended in the mid-90's. I had planned on going and was also helping some other brethren to go. We stayed off the campground in some cabins. Somehow we had got word that some of the guys from the Hinesville (Denis) church were short on room for everyone. Funny thing is we ended up getting the guy that had no money to stay with us! I think they took up a little collection later on and paid his way. Another memory from same conference was that Davis was ranting about how people would choose to stay off the campgrounds so they could watch 'devil vision' Maybe people didn't want to use cheap communal showers and toilets. Something tells me they had better facilities where the board members stayed!
Anonymous said:
" Another memory from same conference was that Davis was ranting about how people would choose to stay off the campgrounds so they could watch 'devil vision' Maybe people didn't want to use cheap communal showers and toilets. Something tells me they had better facilities where the board members stayed!"
DNA said:
That's a very good point. I personally don't think too many people back then really cared about TV in motel rooms and I'm pretty sure it was not their primary focus. I think more than likely your theory carries much more weight than Davis's opinion.
The Shower and toilet facilities were meant humiliate and demean people. In Davis own words he had the opens showers and toilets with no stalls so that ministers and church members could experience humility. In society there are still open showers but you have to look pretty hard to find any facility anywhere that has open stalls and showers in the same room. That is not normal and Davis had plenty of money to make those facilities normal.
Who would think up something like that? I bet Davis and other board members laughed about it in private and joked about it. Seriously, can you think of any sane person that would design a restroom/shower room to be completely open where people on the toilets are facing people in the showers? If we weren't in a cult and brainwashed we would definitely think that something was wrong with this picture. Most normal men and women like to take a dump in privacy. Definitely not sitting next to to or three other people side by side in a room with naked people taking showers and others waiting for their turn.
If I could do it all over I'd take the motel room with the TV and take my chances.
So has any one experienced any preachers "choosing" the brothers mates for them? Like controlling other people's courtship?
Davis often demanded perfection from people when it was absent in his own life. People were told to strive for perfection, but in the bible we find some of the greatest men of God struggling with various temptations and sin. Now Davis was a liar above all things, not being able to remember the last time he sinned. Now I believe sin is a choice and we have the ability to make the right decision but I also believe that we were born in sin and the nature of the flesh is to sin. There has never been a perfect man, except Jesus.
Abraham lied about his wife. Lot vexed his righteous soul daily. Jacob deceived his father Isaac to steal his brother's birthright. Moses rebelled against God's commandment in the wilderness of Zin and was not allowed to step foot into the promised land. David committed adultery with another mans wife and then Had that man murdered to cover up his sin. Peter denied Jesus three times and Thomas doubted that Jesus was risen from the dead. All the disciples struggled with faith and when Jesus was taken to be crucified they all forsook him.
I was reading this morning how that the disciples were gathered and waiting for Pentecost, they took it upon themselves to appoint a 12th apostle. They cast lots to see who it would be. Lots were like little pebbles or pieces of wood that they would put in a vase and each lot would represent a person. There was one for Joseph and one for Matthias. Which ever one they drew out would be the Apostle and they prayed before they cast lots and they drew Matthias and designated him as the 12th apostle. This is where we get the lottery from. They had a lottery for the apostleship. That's like flipping a coin and saying heads for Matthias and tails for Joseph. God, whichever side the coin lands on is the one you choose to be the 12th apostle.
Anyway, my point is that nobody was perfect. As much as you try to obtain perfection, the closest you'll ever come is to be washed in the blood of Jesus. If Peter couldn't do it on his own neither can any of us. Davis and Kekel want you to live in guilt and that is why they have placed a gauntlet of man made rules in front of you and set you up for failure. They want you to blame yourself and always feel that you are inadequate and unable to live up to their self imposed standards. As long as the money keeps pouring in they will continue to prosper.
There are two kinds of people in the ntcc. There are sincere people who are misled. They want to do the right thing and they strive to meet the human demands placed on them by the ntcc leadership. This group is made up of church members and ministers alike. Most of the individuals in this group have good intentions and try to treat each other decently, but often the ministers are compelled to force certain issues upon their members that have nothing to do with Christianity and often are ethically wrong. The other group are users and abusers who in this case are the leaders of the ntcc and they only accept people who are good at manipulating others for the purpose of generating money and numbers. This group consists of Board members, executives, teachers, ministers and a few members that greedily go after gain. These people try to emulate the cult leadership and desire the lifestyle that these hypocrites have become accustomed to.
Well, what I remember from conferences is that people staying in motels generally were so paranoid and fearful that they would physically face the television toward the wall. We never did that, but we didn't dream of even turning the thing on. So I was floored when Davis casually observed once at the "leader's table" in the fellowship hall that he always checked out CNN when he was in a motel. The cognitive dissonance that information imparted hurt my brain, and helped shock me out of the fog of pastor worship. The dude was a phony all along, sending others to hell for watching TV when, as we've now learned, he actually had one himself and openly admitted to watching them in motels.
When he copped to watching TV I just went numb with the realization that I was a dupe and a sucker. They can't help revealing themselves over time.
If you still feel trapped, do yourself a favor and depart the camp of the narcissist controllers immediately. I guarantee your only regret will be that you didn't do it sooner. Reject the guilt--go for freedom to be your own person. If you have kids, realize that every second you hesitate negatively affects them. Get away and give them a real childhood. My kids were into double digits when we bailed. At least we reclaimed a chunk of their lives, but sooner would have been much better.
This is a sincere question. Does anyone know from a medical standpoint if these narcissists and pathological liers actual begin to believe their own lies?
Joan B.
DA...
Thanks for the info about the conference. I could only assume the numbers are dwindling.
In fact I would bet this conference was a "Last Chance Conference" for a great many folks. Should I stay or should I go? I bet there will be another exodus.
Dmario...
When you are complete in severing ties with the church I'd love to hear more of your stories/updates as to what's going on.
I care deeply about what's going on because I want the org to fail in the worst way.
Good luck to you and I hope you continue to contribute.
Anonymous said:
"I care deeply about what's going on because I want the org to fail in the worst way."
DNA said:
I can tell by your words that the ntcc has hurt you pretty bad. What you are feeling is something that many of us have also felt. We all want them to fail if for no other reason than to give people back their freedom so they can live their lives without being manipulated by some religious huckster.
Vic said:
"The dude was a phony all along, sending others to hell for watching TV when, as we've now learned, he actually had one himself and openly admitted to watching them in motels."
DNA said:
Preachers in the ntcc used to rail against the TV, calling it the Devil Vision or the One Eyed Monster. There really wasn't anything wrong with the TV. It was a great invention and it was used to propagate inherent rights and freedoms such as freedom of speech and freedom of the press. The ntcc didn't want us to have any freedom or any rights because in our freedom we might discover that we are being led around by a bunch of nutcase cult leaders that thrive off of controlling your life to the point that you don't have any freedom at all.
The TV is like many other sources of media. You can use it to educate and entertain. Same with books and magazines. You chose which ones you want to read. Just because some people have used books and magazines to sell porn doesn't mean that God hates books and Magazines and that if you own one you are going to die and go to hell.
But now the same God that used to rail against TV has changed His mind and decided that TV is not a sin, according to many in the ntcc that watch it without guilt. Many of the ntcc ministers now list their favorite movies and TV shows on facebook. Many of them listen to music that God must have also changed His mind about according to them. Quite a few ntcc big wigs like Verna and the Tiemans like Joel Olsteen who has made more merchandise off of God's people than any other preacher.
They are definitely a bunch of fraudulent hypocrites indeed.
Someone said, "Don't feed the Tribble". That is hilarious! I do say a lot and comment too much probably for some folks. Drawing attention to that is like feeding a Tribble. The more you feed them the more they multiply.
While we do blog a lot and comment a lot, very few have complained about it. If you click here you should be able to see the video "The Trouble with Tribbles" That will explain what all this hubbub is about. This video goes out to the guy who left the comment on Chief's blog that we like to hear ourselves talk too much, and especially to the one that wrote, "Don't feed the Tribble".
Or here's the URL to copy and paste
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VM1f0RKQtmc
Joan B asked:
"This is a sincere question. Does anyone know from a medical standpoint if these narcissists and pathological liers actual begin to believe their own lies?"
DNA said:
I'm not a medical professional, but I've studied the subject and Narcissists like Davis and Kekel are Pathological liars, and they do believe their own lies. They become so good at telling lies and successful at getting others to believe them, that they actually believe their own lies. If you add the element of Christianity, you will find that it is the perfect environment for a Narcissist to flourish, because they can easily convince people that they are God's chosen and the words they speak are given to them by God. If a person can get others to believe that they are next in line for the throne of God, they will believe anything they say, and ignore a lot of what they do. Recipe for a cult leader:
1) Egotistically self centered individual, add a religious environment where they can play God, throw in a bunch of newly saved Christians that don't know the bible, and presto, you have an instant cult and cult leader.
Since I'm not an expert I would suggest that you do a YouTube or Google search on Clinical Narcissism and Religious Narcissism to find out more info. A person has to have 5 out of 9 traits to be clinically diagnosed as a narcissist and people like Davis and Kekel usually have all 9 of the traits.
Perhaps if there is someone in the medical field that has had experience in dealing with clinical Narcissists, if you would care to comment, you are more than welcome. Here are a few facts about Narcissists that you might find interesting:
1. Many of the more dangerous ones flourish in a position of power or trust.
2. Narcissists commit adultery often.
3. Narcissists love themselves and worship themselves.
4. Narcissists are so adept at lying that many could pass a polygraph test
5. Narcissists refuse responsibility. If something goes wrong it's never their fault but always your fault.
6. Narcissists are two faced. They have double standards, one that everyone else is supposed to keep and the one that they keep that nobody else knows about.
7. Narcissists smear people who oppose them.
Click here to watch the video entitled "The Narcissistic Cult Leader". The first song accompanying the video is very fitting. But the second song, called "Gasoline" by Seether is, in our opinion, offensive. So, for that song, we just turn the volume down. But it's a free country and God has given you free will to exercise. We're simply sharing what we thought of the music. The written words in the video, however, completely describe the ntcc narcissists.
If the link doesn't work for you, you can copy and paste this URL into your web browser:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0N2Kd-m5dE
We re-posted two comments with video links in the comment text. Originally we tried using the Name/URL feature to convert the video URLs into links. This worked fine for some users, but not for others. Sorry for any inconvenience. Hopefully now everyone will be able to see these videos if they want. :-)
Here we are again, talking to ourselves and anyone who cares to listen. Todays subject:
New Testament Giving
Jesus on Giving: Mat. 5:42
"Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away."
This type of giving is unheard of in the ntcc. If someone walks up to you and asks you for a dollar in the ntcc, we were told not to give it to them because they might spend it on beer or drugs. That's between them and God, who are we to judge? If someone wants to borrow a cup of sugar or some money and it's with in your means to help them, maybe they need it more than you do.
John the Baptist on giving: Luke 3:11
"He answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise."
If you see someone freezing and you have two coats, give the freezing person a coat. That's New Testament Giving, Not saving up money so some filthy rich Board member can come by in their Recreational Vehicle and collect an offering from you. That filthy rich Board member doesn't need your money. Jesus didn't say give your money to the rich Pharisees and Hypocrites.
The Early Church Model: Acts 2:44,45
"And all that believed were together, and had all things common;
And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need."
Do you see anyone getting rich in this example of New Testament giving? Davis hated these scriptures and taught contrary to this example. If Davis and the rest of the rich hypocrites believed in the bible like they claimed to, they wouldn't be filthy rich right now while you are struggling to make ends meet.
Paul on Giving: 2 Cor 9:7
"Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."
In the ntcc you are always being pumped and primed to give out of necessity. The need is their own. The beneficiary is the ntcc rich leaders. If you give out of necessity because some hypocrite tells you that God is commanding you to do so.
I like reading your posts DnA.
I remember the first time I gave a dollar to a bum, I felt liberated because like you said we had been taught not to waste our money and blah blah blah
But I felt like George on Seinfeld when he started doing the opposite of what he would do and his life started changing for the better.
I know this will sound weird to some because they might not know what I'm referring to about Seinfeld.
A little thing like giving a dollar to that beggar was life changing for me.
I remember the man was so thankful and it touched my heart because he said God bless you and I knew that he was sincere And meant what he said.
Anonymous said:
"I remember the first time I gave a dollar to a bum, I felt liberated because like you said we had been taught not to waste our money and blah blah blah"
DNA said:
I think a lot of us felt that way. I've given a lot of money to the ntcc during my life time and not one time did it ever seem like there was heartfelt appreciation like there is when you give to someone in need. There are many more examples and teachings about giving to the poor in the bible than there are about giving to the rich hypocrites. In fact I'm not sure if there are any examples from Christ or His apostles about giving to the rich. I know that the woman that cast two mites into the treasury was giving more than the others because she was giving all she had. Not sure where the money went, but hopefully not to some rich hypocrite.
It feels very good inside your soul to give to people in need. In fact I think that Jesus sent them out to evangelize without a organizational structure for a reason. When you do anything directly for the Lord, the rewards are much more meaningful. You see the results of the work that God has given to you to do. If you delegate that work to others and create a hierarchy it becomes a pyramid and you end up with Lazy people at the top who think they are entitled and everyone else is doing their work for them. They sit there and glory your labors and say look at how God has blessed us financially, and with real estate and cars and all the nice things in life, while you are supposed to spend the rest of your life sitting at the Children's table.
Anonymous said:
"But I felt like George on Seinfeld when he started doing the opposite of what he would do and his life started changing for the better."
That is actually a much better way to go about things if you think about it. You can learn more from George on Seinfeld than you can from the ntcc Fat Cats. I learned that if I did things pretty much the opposite from the way the ntcc teaches you to do things that you can actually simplify the whole process of returning to normalcy.
For instance, instead of walking on eggshells and trying not to do this or that because they have told you it's wrong, try thinking for yourself each time you are up against something that is questionable. If there is a question about something being right or wrong read for yourself. For instance, we all know that tithe is not anywhere to be found in the New Testament and even the Old Testament doesn't require you to give cash every payday. So instead of giving a set amount to some preacher that requires it of you because of his own man made false doctrine, Try going to the grocery store and buying a few things for people that are living in your local shelter. They get tired of drinking powdered milk. Try giving your shelter $50 worth of Vitamin D milk and see if those people in that shelter feel more appreciative of you than that preacher that you have been giving $100 per week to. If you get a settlement out of nowhere and you want to show your appreciation to God, find a grocery store that has a sale on Steaks and drop some of those bad boys off at the shelter and see how much the staff appreciates what you are doing for the people that they volunteer to take care of with no profit whatsoever. Buy some personal hygiene items for some homeless people and they will show much more appreciation than that growling menace to society that calls himself a preacher.
Thank you Anonymous for you comment, it looks like you and Ange have come up with some good material for our next blog post.
It has been three years since I left the cult in Graham, I was a member and not part of "upper crust", I wish I had left the day I started attending in the Lakewood church. What a waste of time. I have learned more about God and what a Christian should do after leaving that awful cult.
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