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| Jesus guiding the Surgeon's hand. |
This morning I was blogging about the Glock Pistol over on Chief's blog knowing that I had a surgical appointment later this morning for a surgical procedure called a Mediastinoscopy. Back in early April, I slipped on some ice and took a spill while getting out of my big rig, and suffered a rare injury which basically was diagnosed as a Sterno-Clavicular Sprain. Basically my collar bone was almost or slightly dislocated from the joint where it attaches to the breast bone. It's quite a ways down from the top step and I landed on my shoulder with all my weight. The injury was painful but it could have been much worse. Even when it happened I was marveling that I hadn't hit my head on the curb. Thank God. Also, thankfully, I had a benefit called Accidental Occupational insurance. This insurance covered every penny of my medical expenses, including a trip to urgent care, x-rays, Cat-Scan, follow up visits, Physical Therapy visits, prescription meds and a nice pay check every week to help me get by until I'm able to go back to work.
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| Recovering Nicely at Home |
When I got my Cat-Scan the diagnosis was that I strained some tendons and muscles in the joint where my Collar bone attaches to my sternum. Thankfully, the Cat-Scan was in just the right location to detect another problem that I was unaware of. They found some enlarged lymph nodes hiding between my heart and lungs that needed to be removed ASAP. The doctor said I was very fortunate to have found this problem, because if it were left undetected it could have fatal ramifications. They sent me back for a Cat-Scan of my chest and it revealed that those lymph-nodes were indeed very large, so they scheduled me for surgery which took place earlier today (4/14/15). They had to make an incision just below my Adam's Apple and follow my windpipe down to the affected area. In addition to removing the Lymph nodes a camera was deployed to the same area to perform an expedition that would search for traces of cancer or lymphoma. Biopsies were taken and sent to the lab. All this took the better part of 5 hours and I'm now at home feeling a little loopy from the Anesthesia but amazingly hardly any pain.
I could have gone to someone like Ashmore and made a spectacle out of things, but I just said a few prayers and went about my business. I personally feel that life itself is a blessing from God; and we live and breathe because God cares enough about each one of us to allow it. I also feel that God has answered my prayer; and I'm grateful that the outcome has been very favorable. The Surgeon said everything looked really good and went very well. I do have to wait for the results of the Biopsy before I know if there is to be any further treatment needed.
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| Preop Surgical Ink - My First Tatoo |
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| Surgical Incision-no Stitches just Crazy Glue |
Do yourself a favor and find yourself a church that doesn't treat you like a slave. Those kind of ministers and people always have strings attached and hoops to jump through and they are not worth associating with. Find yourself a church that doesn't capitalize on your gullibility. If you have to pay a church, or they expect you to give to their programs and conform to their rules as a requirement to receive God's blessings, you don't need them as much as they need you. You are better off without a church then you are if you let others capitalize on your suffering. Don't let a bunch of religious Shylocks make merchandise of you. If someone you trust with your spiritual welfare is getting rich while their congregants are struggling to get by, then shake the dust off your feet and find God for yourself without a bunch of religious nuts dictating God's conditions to you.
45 comments:
Hey Don, you don't have to post this, and I'm not trying to be contentious, but I wouldn't characterize going to a doctor and getting surgery divine healing...it's not like someone laid hands on you and exercised faith; a doctor used human knowledge to do what was necessary. I guess indirectly all healing is from God, but Jesus wasn't using any scalpels, you know. Glad you're OK.
Oh so you are not only try to claim this as divine healing from God but you also have the ability to jump from being here at 4/14/15 like the rest of us to 4/14/16. Does this mean God gave you a sign you will live another year? Lets be honest in writing things publicly, man. Did this really happen or did you make it up?
It's all good Vic. My claim to devine healing is not related to the same type of Devine healing that the ntcc or Ashmore claims. There are too many strings attached. I feel that God has given me my health. I could have missed this diagnosis very easily and died. By getting these lymphnodes removed in a timely fashion I dodged a bullet.
I attribute this to God, not because of faith or anything else, just divine grace. I prayed that surgery would go well and it did. Is God able to direct the surgeon's scalpel and influence the outcome? I would hope that if God made me he could fix me. Again, I'm not claiming devine healing in the same sense that Ashmore advertises. I could have searched out a preacher with a divine healing ministry and asked them to heal me. I know there would have been strings attached.
Is it any less of a healing because a doctor gets paid instead of a preacher? That is the point of this blog post. What makes healing divine? Does there have have to be sensationalism? Does it have to be a spectacle? I say no. I simply am saying that I could be dead or dying but it appears that I'm not, and if any credit is given to anyone, why can't it go to God?
ANON MIKE,
Glad you're OK Don and glad you're posting on other blogs again!!!
Anonymous said...
Oh so you are not only try to claim this as divine healing from God but you also have the ability to jump from being here at 4/14/15 like the rest of us to 4/14/16.
DNA said:
Well, lets see, about 7 hours ago I was on an operating table with a breathing tube shoved down my throat, a oxygen mask, an IV and EKG machine hooked up to me and a camera along with who know's what all instruments they snaked in between my heart and lungs to observe and capture Enlarged lymph nodes while taking other samples for biopsies. Sorry I got the date wrong you narcissist. I thought I did pretty good job considering. It's called a typo. Hello? I was given Hydrocodone for pain but believe it or not, it's not hurting very bad at all. Thank God, if it's alright with you that I thank Him. I didn't have to call on a snake oil salesman to and pay my tithe for him to spit in my face and jerk my dislocated arm back into place while making a video for showmanship to capitalize on someone else's pain to receive my healing.
Anonymous said:
"Does this mean God gave you a sign you will live another year? Lets be honest in writing things publicly, man. Did this really happen or did you make it up?"
DNA said:
What do you think, that I photo shopped those photos?
Wait until you leave. Wait until you hear what they say about you. You've already violated the mandate of not reading this blog. You know how I know? Because you post as anonymous. You won't put your name down, why should I even care what you believe?
Do you think I sit around for six hours a day making stuff like this up so some follower of a Shylock can point their finger at us and claim we are the liars?
Shylock definition. The merciless moneylender in The Merchant of Venice, by William Shakespeare. He demands a pound of flesh from the title character of the play after the merchant defaults on his debt.
Man forget those #*&%# Don and I'm not referring to Vic's post either. I thought Vic was quite respectable with his comment. I'm glad you are doing good. That's really good news. I give credit to God sometimes also. I don't know how much God has manipulated things in such a fashion as to help me out but you know my story as well as anyone. I'm straight up extremely fortunate for real and that fact can not be denied. Extreme circumstances which are WAY out of the ordinary have resulted in my success and wonderful lifestyle. Dude, I got it good and you know what? I am giving credit to God even though I don't know how much if any influence he had on my situation one way or another. Again, I'm glad you are doing well. Get better fast.
If I died tomorrow, I've lived a real good life. Man life can't get much better than mine and I'm very thankful for it.
Chief
Chief said:
"I thought Vic was quite respectable with his comment. I'm glad you are doing good."
Thanks Chief, and I agree with you. I was fairly looped out on a drug similar to Valium that the Anesthesiologist put in the cocktail of drugs used to put me under and to relieve the pain. Vic made a good point about divine healing and my message wasn't quite as clear as I would have liked it to have been. Anyway, most of the people who emphasize divine healing have an angle which usually involves money or sometime of monetary giving as a reward for receiving this miracle. I know there are probably a few ministers that are not profiting off of this type of ministry. Faith Healing usually does entail God healing someone on the spot as the preacher prays for them.
I don't believe Ashmore or anyone in the ntcc sincerely has God's best interests in mind when they throw around the term faith healer. I was using the term loosely in comparison to the way they use it to make a point and probably didn't make that point the way in which I intended to. I do believe that God has blessed me, and I'm amazed at how this whole thing went down.
I never intended to get super spiritual as many do, but at the same time I believe God had his hand in it. The religious world has their terminology and definitions for the things they do, and many times it's made up.
I'm not positive but I doubt the word "Faith Healer or Healings" is a term you would find in the bible, but you would hear it being used a lot in the Ashmorgite camp. Jesus and many of the Apostles had a serious faith healing ministry in which people were healed on the spot, by God without doctors. I get that, but I also don't like to diminish God's role in doing something good that might seem a little less miraculous to some, but to me it's real and wonderful.
Anonymous said...
ANON MIKE,
Glad you're OK Don and glad you're posting on other blogs again!!!
DNA said:
Thanks Mike, I want people to know that the ntcc is a big time scam and that they don't have a monopoly on devine healing or on anything in the spiritual realm. It's not enough for them to run people off, but they have a tendency to get in people's heads and stay there. When a person leaves the ntcc, they seldom leave in peace and never do they leave with the blessing of the leadership. They are made to feel isolated and doomed for the rest of their lives. Because the teach the doctrine of men as commandments, people think that all the rules for fools apply to them forever. The ntcc effectively puts heaven out of reach for so many people.
Ashmore was a huge part of this for years and now he claims to be a faith healing bible wielding pastor who all of the sudden has changed and it's all about love and grace and healing people. Ashmore appears to be looking for people that are easy to manipulate like former disgruntled ntcc members. When he see's someone with a limp or a cough, he prays for them and perhaps their own faith heals them or perhaps they don't get healed.
It's an opportunity to capitalize on someone else's suffering and to obtain another stream of income that will add to the cash cow he gets from all the brain washed suckers from the ntcc. If the person doesn't get healed it's always going to be because they didn't have the faith, or they were God hating sinners. If they do feel better and they are relieved from the sniffles or whatever else bothers them, they will claim healing and if they can fit in to Ashmore's new ministry they will be taught extensively about giving and they will see the examples of people like Mike Meinecke and other X-ntcc members tithing and they too will tithe because they will associate the blessings of God with tithing.
We live in a convoluted world filled with religious nut cases. It's a scam and just like Kekel and Davis, now Ashmore has his own piece of the religious wealth creating pie in the sky.
Hey DnA, I understand why you #%&*# out my word and please post this. I'd like the readers to know that the word I posted actually isn't considered a quote, "curse" word but I guess it's borderline. I looked up the urban definition of the word I posted describing the insensitive nature that a couple #%&%#s displayed toward Don after his surgery.
Definition for #&%&#: "A derogatory term used to sum up the existence of a worthless jerk". I liked that definition for the word #%&%#. And for those of you who are trying to figure it out, it wasn't the "a" word either. You know Don, I'm not as refined as you are and of course I make no apologies for it. I thought some of those remarks were insensitive under the circumstances.
Chief
At least we are consistent. There is absolutely no judgment toward you or anyone for their use of metaphors on this blog. I know how people in the ntcc think and I know how I thought. The only reason we try to limit profanity is because we want as many readers from the ntcc and Ashmore's audiences as we can get. We don't want to give them a reason to not read our blog. I think there is more hope for a person that uses profanity than there is for a religious nut job that uses people to get rich. Why should we be judged by those that are religious hypocrites? We shouldn't.
I'm not moderating the questionable words out because I have virgin ears or because I'm more "refined". In the Old Testament taking the Lord's name in vain was an offense punishable by death, while words like piss and dung were used in their proper context. It was a little more vile when Rabshakeh talked about being sent by his master to the men rebuilding the wall of Jerusalem so that they could eat their own dung and drink their own piss.
While the New testament does mention filthy communication, I don't think any of the regulars have ever used that on any of the blogs. The reason we moderate this blog is because we get a steady flow of what would be considered filthy communication directed towards people like Julie and us for publishing her testimonies. I'm talking about stuff that is so vulgar that you wouldn't even find it in a Hustler magazine. If we took moderation off of our blog we would get a whole bunch of comments like that every day.
I'm not sure how Factnet was but The other blogs seemed to do better without those words back in the day, to include your blog Chief. There seemed to be more participation from ntcc'rs, they were willing to read and that led to many of them leaving. Once they left they would come on your blog and share their stuff. Of Course that's my own opinion from my own observations.
I've also learned not to be judgmental of others. The ntcc made people scared to be around ordinary people and to judge them for every little thing they did. The ntcc dress standards were ridiculous and turned people away. We judged people for drinking, smoking, cursing and any other reason we could find. Ntcc people are obnoxious and offensive toward anyone who might want salvation.
DnA wrote...
The only reason we try to limit profanity is because we want as many readers from the ntcc and Ashmore's audiences as we can get.
Chief wrote...
I've used the same tactic in the past. There certainly is merit to that approach. With me, the more sarcastic I got toward unrealistic and illogical NTCCers the more I didn't care what people wrote, obviously with some exceptions. I didn't care what judgmental NTCCers thought either. If that stopped them from reading my blog I figured that was their loss not mine. Like I said, I do understand your approach because I've used the same in the past.
Chief
Brother Ken Glad you are doing ok. I got what you said right away Don, On my last stroke couple weeks ago when they took my blood they found I had low blood Oxygen, I thank God they caught the anemia, and sent me to a hematologist, I still do not know what is wrong yet, but I will leave it in God's hands, and the doctors he put in charge of me, and yes I'm praying also.
Hang in there Brother Ken. Hope you feel better soon. Thank you for the update. We look forward to your quick recovery and let us know how things are going.
Sometimes sickness can be a way of life for people. It doesn't mean that they are any less loved than someone who has been healed in church service. I was in the ntcc for 13 years and never seen anyone healed of anything more than a common cold or a case of the sniffles. I received prayer for injuries and colds but in reality I never noticed much of a difference, I definitely wasn't healed by a prayer of faith. What I noticed about the ntcc's faith healing doctrine was that it never extended beyond the church members and tithe paying suckers.
Bro. Ken and many others might suffer more but that doesn't mean that they have less faith or that they are less of a person. I hate that attitude that was created in the ntcc. I actually think that people who suffer with infirmities make those of us who don't suffer as much stronger. I often look at some of the people I know that have had multiple medical problems as a source of strength. If they can make it through what they are going through and keep a positive attitude than why can't I?
Sometimes faith isn't about how many people you lay hands on or how many people fall down 'slain in the spirit' or how many circles you run around the church. I see a story of kid on TV that is living with Cancer and they think of everyone else but themselves, it speaks to me much louder than the religious evangelist who gets rich off of healing people on YouTube.
Thanks Don and Ange for all you do on this blog. I too understood what you meant.
I had the same procedure in April 2005 and they found my lymph node masses by a chance chest x-ray. After a 99.9% diagnosis of lung cancer (by the surgeon's own words) the biopsies all came back negative. They think I had disseminated Histoplasmosis- a fungal infection.
I too give God all the glory. I may not have had a miraculous healing but it didn't matter. God gave me the strength though all those uncertain days prior to my biopsies.
I totally agree with you about illness not being a curse of God. I have several chronic illnesses/disabilities. They are due to enviroment, injury and genetics nothing more nothing less. My disabilities are my strengths. They have made me a more compassionate, caring and approachable individual.
NTCCers don't ever believe illness/disability is due to sin or a curse from God like I had heard while in. Just because you are not divinely
Sorry Don, I hit publish by accident. I meant to put "just because you aren't divinely healed doesn't mean you don't find favor with God" Joan B.
If someone claims to have the Gifts of the Holy Spirit- like Divine Healing or Prophesy and they charge money or take up offerings so you can support their so called ministry, be highly suspicious.
If they use showmanship and boast about their accomplishments, run the other way.
Gifts of Divine Healing and Divine Prophesy are to be given free and without boasting. A true healer and prophet are humble and work without asking for your monies. Those are the Healers and Prophets to seek out if you must follow someone.
Joan B
Joan B. Said:
"I had the same procedure in April 2005 and they found my lymph node masses by a chance chest x-ray. After a 99.9% diagnosis of lung cancer (by the surgeon's own words) the biopsies all came back negative. They think I had disseminated Histoplasmosis- a fungal infection."
DNA said:
Thank you for sharing that. This was the kind of dialogue we were hoping for when we wrote this post. Divine healing means that God had a part in it. In today's overly religious society divine healing can only be accomplished when someone stands over you and prays in front of a bunch of people and you become miraculously healed. I look at it like, our bodies belong to God, and God loves us and died for us. How He chooses to heal us physically or spiritually is up to Him. It doesn't make it any less divine or meaningless to us that are healed.
Anyway, I really appreciate your testimony and I hope you lead a long and happy life. If we die before we expect to, our race will be over and hopefully our testimony will be that we helped restore others, or we helped people realize the God cares about them. I think Salvation and Christianity are more about us realizing that God loves us, than trying to prove to others that we love God. God never forced anyone and neither can we. Jesus told the Pharisees that the harlots and publicans would make it into God's kingdom before they would. Mt.21:31-32
Joan B. said:
"Gifts of Divine Healing and Divine Prophesy are to be given free and without boasting. A true healer and prophet are humble and work without asking for your monies. Those are the Healers and Prophets to seek out if you must follow someone."
DNA said:
I agree. Jesus was the greatest divine healer of all time and not once do you see him ever take up an offering or even require much out of the people that he healed. He would often tell them to go and tell others what great things God has done for you.
I think that true faith healers exist but they are few and far in between because they do not do it for money. Jesus and his disciples usually healed people that were seriously Ill and had life threatening or life changing illnesses. They healed the blind and deaf. They healed those that had palsy and that were bed ridden for life. The woman with the issue of blood suffered many years and many physicians. They cast out evil spirits and people that were mentally ill all of their life were found clothed and in their right minds. People were raised from the dead. But in all the instances of divine healing in the bible, we don't find the sensationalism and spectacle that we see today. The faith healers that do it for public notoriety are often in it for money and numbers and there are often lots of antics involved.
Hey Don, has anyone approached Bruce Smith about all the strange stuff surrounding Ralph's death? Has anyone followed up with the VA to see which one he died at? Julie has the legal right to such information from the police dept. and VA. Also she has legal rights to the death certificate. If none exists time to notify police departments with active investigations.
Joan B.
This comment was carried over from the "Ralph St. Clair dies with little fanfare" post because we wanted Julie to see it so she could answer it. Very good question.
Last we heard was that Ralph died in a different hospital. We are not sure if Julie got around to actually verifying it or not. Since she is legally his daughter, she should be able to verify this through the hospital, and perhaps she has. She also can order a death certificate but that takes 3 weeks. I'm pretty sure Julie reads this blog regularly and would be glad to answer this question. Thanks.
Has anyone brought concerns to the attorney general, state rep, or senator about the financial dealings of org and their affiliation with soldiers?
Joan B. said
surrounding Ralph's death? Has anyone followed up with the VA to see which one he died at?
Julie says.....
I did contact the hospital that I was able to finally find out he died in. I was originally told he died in a VA hospital but in the end found out that he died in Tacoma General Hospital. At first they didn't want to share how he died with me since in the paperwork there was no mention of me as a daughter of Ralph's. Joan had also checked the box that information surrounding his hospital stay and if he should pass should be only shared with the family or those that were listed on the paper. They told me though they offer the not sharing freely with anyone that asked how a patient passed most people don't seem mind the sharing only wanting desecration when the patient is alive not upon their passing. They have a courtesy where they notify social security off the passing of a patient when necessary. (this is not done by all hospitals) They have since notified Social security on my behalf of my connection to him.
So in answer to your question the only verification I have is talking to the hospital and being contacted by social security. I have thought of getting a death certificate but have not at this point. If I do I will request Don and Ange to post a copy on the blog.
If this has not fully answered your question please let me know.
Hugs,
Julie
Brother Ken said....
On my last stroke couple weeks ago when they took my blood they found I had low blood Oxygen, I thank God they caught the anemia
Thank you for sharing. I look forward to hearing when you are feeling better. You are such a great blessing and inspiration. Take good care of yourself.
Don I am glad that they found this out even if it took something else painful to find it.
For me it just reminds me how precious life is and how glad I am that I am that God protected you.
God reminds us how much he loves us in so many ways.
Hugs,
Julie
I Shared that part about my health, because I wanted people to stop and think before they got to negative, that Gods healing does not always have to be divine
and it was by the grace of God that they caught Don's life threating health issue and fixed it. like Ashmore would sing He's God on the alter and He is our God when we walked out the door and left NTCC we do not need NTCC to say Praise God, because we know who He is and what He can do.
Thank you Julie, I really appreciate that. I agree that life is precious and I feel very fortunate to be alive and kicking. You have been a survivor and an inspiration a lot of people. You have helped a lot of people by sharing with them and helping them realize that they are not alone. We also know it's not easy and there will always be lots of opposition. People love their money and they don't like being exposed.
Bro. Ken said:
"like Ashmore would sing He's God on the alter and He is our God when we walked out the door and left NTCC we do not need NTCC to say Praise God, because we know who He is and what He can do."
DNA said:
You are right Bro. Ken. The ntcc and Ashmore's group no longer have the right preach at us or try to define healing for us. We know from what God does in our own lives that God is real and that is the miracle. To me the greatest miracle to be placed even above any healing our bodies receive is the fact that God cares about us. It's really the only thing that matters. If I were to experience some kind of complication and cease to exist, it wouldn't matter what anyone else preaches or teaches about a person standing over you and praying. The assurance of being loved by God is also to know that your broken spirit has been healed. Eternal healing of the soul is more important than the body, and that's my honest opinion. I would rather have that assurance than to be a part of a money making enterprise on this earth that benefits some financially while others struggle. I'd rather be there for others when they need a friend than to kick them to the curb when some religious leaders sees no more use for them. I hope people will find hope in all this.
This is real. We think that God cares about you unconditionally in spite of what we endured in the ntcc. Is there life beyond the ntcc? Is there hope? Does our hope hinge on groups that are led by the Kekels and Ashmores of this world? Do we have to live by the commandments and doctrines of men to earn God's favor? Who decides what level of involvement or mastery another man should have over your daily decisions? In the ntcc, we had to ask permission to do make decisions that are meant to be made by grown adults. If we are prohibited from thinking for ourselves we will be limited in our capacity to survive in this world. We need every advantage available to survive in this day and age, physically and spiritually. Our minds are a terrible thing to waste and we wasted them by not using them.
Have you considered the healing power of laughter?
I am glad this topic has been brought up. I have had many people some that even meant well say there is a flaw in me for I have not been healed of my cerebral palsy. I say isn't healing to glorify God. What if in my condition, God is getting glorified. For me that is the most important thing. I am glad I wasn't healed in the past because it would have brought man glory even more so now. I would rather never be fully whole than to be whole with man getting all the praise.
Will writing more later tonight.
Hugs,
Julie
Kenneth Macpherson said...
"I Shared that part about my health, because I wanted people to stop and think before they got to negative, that Gods healing does not always have to be divine
and it was by the grace of God that they caught Don's life threating health issue and fixed it."
That is so true healing comes in so many forms. Each and everything is by his grace. I think Sometimes I think it is easy to focus on what is not that humans can fail to see what is.
Someone one time was trying to get me to travel to their church for they felt their pastor had more power of healing then anyone. I said do you think I have a right to pray to God they said yes. I said what if I was in pain or had a headache in the middle night with no one but myself to ask God to give relief; do you think God would hear me? She said yes. I said then why do you think the laying on of hands of this man and his prayer is greater then mine or anyone's else prayer. She seem to have no answer.
The religious have taken the simplicity out of Jesus. If only people could realize how much he loves them.
Hugs,
Julie
Ken and Don I love it when God just takes care of a problem before you even realize there is a problem or makes us aware of something before it becomes more serious. I think that is such an act of love of God not only to those who have a health situation but also to those around them.
Hugs,
Julie
Julie said...
I am glad this topic has been brought up. I have had many people some that even meant well say there is a flaw in me for I have not been healed of my cerebral palsy.
DNA said:
Devine healing is not the greatest miracle. The healing of a persons soul is greater. Our bodies have a life expectancy of 70 to 80 years, some might live a little longer but it is appointed to all of us once to die. Our soul is eternal. When I see a person who has been changed on the inside, but has the grace to live through so much pain on the outside, there is a miracle in that. I know for a fact that I draw strength from people who are afflicted.
I have been blessed with good health all of my life. This little heart issue that I just went through was the first major thing that I've ever really gone through and it was bad in comparison to others that have extreme and chronic illnesses. I think, if they can keep a good attitude, surely I can. If they can give thanks to God after all they have been through, surely I can also. That is a miracle in itself. I think that God uses the weaker things of this world to confound the wise.
Five years ago at this time, I was smoking two packs of cigarettes a day and drinking several bottles of Rum and Bourbon weekly. My best friends on planet earth were Jim Beam, Captain Morgan and Jack Daniels. Oh and I almost forgot, Marlboro lights 100's. I bought the 100's so I could get more bang for the buck, or so I thought. I started smoking when I left the ntcc and smoked for about 14 years and drank on and off for the same.
By the time Ange found me, I was on my way to killing myself. I had tried several times to quit smoking. I would quit for a few weeks, a month or two, even once for a whole year, but I always started back smoking.
Drinking and smoking were something I did a lot of and often times I drank and smoked alone. Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not here to say that if you drink or smoke or curse or wear pants, or earings or makeup that you are going to hell. I'm saying, I had a huge problem that I couldn't solve and I asked God to free me from those things and God did it. This to me would be considered divine healing even more than what seems to be taking place in my body right now.
When the transformation took place in my life, I became aware of something that I struggled with for so many years in the ntcc. I actually realized without any doubt that God cared about me. I didn't always feel like that in the ntcc. Often times I couldn't live to that standard of perfection that so many tried to live up to.
If I ever received a revelation in my life it was at that moment. I realized that all the rules in the ntcc, and much of the doctrine that was taught to us did not come from God. Salvation was simplified and Christianity was not only obtainable but desirable to me.
I know that people are in different stages in life right now. I personally believe that God knows what we have had to endure in the ntcc and that he cares about each one of us. The ntcc has left a lot of people in the need of divine healing. I doubt if Ashmore has prayed for people to be healed of the brainwashing that he is responsible for. I haven't even heard him admit that he had anything to do with the suffering of former ntcc members.
It took me 14 years of not thinking about the ntcc and working with my own hands, and accomplishing good things in my own life to get to the point where I could even listen to what anyone had to say about God.
No matter what stage of healing you are in, we are not here to judge anyone. We are not here to jam religion down anyone's throat or to preach to anyone. We want people to know that the ntcc doesn't have a monopoly on Christianity or Salvation. We want folks to know that there is still hope. That's our approach and that is what our blog is here for. We appreciate all the other blogs that were here before ours. Chief's blog has been a huge source of common sense, and I've learned a lot from him and all the people who contribute over there.
It is nice to know there is hope for me. I feel like the shaking everything off is so hard. To separate yesterday's thinking from today's thinking it is like a tangled up bunch of cords.So many people tell me they drop the past and put together their in just 2-3 years it makes me feel like I am failing yet to read what you wrote about 14 years gives me hope for myself. It is helpful to know I don't have to punish myself for not lining up so quickly.
Carlos said:
"So many people tell me they drop the past and put together their in just 2-3 years it makes me feel like I am failing yet to read what you wrote about 14 years gives me hope for myself."
DNA said:
Part of the time that I spent in the ntcc, was real for me. I had a real relationship with God. After a while they wore me down. All the relationship controls made me feel like God had forsaken me. I didn't want to consider that I was being manipulated by professional con artists, so I did what all cult members do, I blamed myself. Everything that went wrong in my life had to be my own fault. Eventually, when you are beaten down enough, you begin to believe the same lies. I didn't want to die and go to hell from a church pew, so I left the ntcc. At that point, I was just going through the motions, and I know that there are a lot of ntcc'rs that know what I'm talking about.
What I didn't realize when I left, was that God never stopped caring about me. I spent the next 14 years of my life living for myself. I became very selfish and self centered. But I also learned to enjoy life. Contrary to what a lot of Christians believe, I believe that God wants us to enjoy life itself. While our purpose and calling might be to service of some kind, I don't think that God placed all this beauty in the world for us to ignore it and not want to get out and enjoy it.
I also don't feel any pressure to return to a cult of any kind. I'm happy with the basic life of a Christian. I believe there is simplicity in salvation and when we try to be like others instead of Christ, we fail to see our purpose. Everyone has a purpose. It might be as simple as shining a little bit of light into someone else's darkened world. It might be to encourage someone who has been down trodden. It might be to buy someone a soda or to help a stranded motorist to get back to safety. Don't despise the small things. We spent a lot of time trying to do things on a grand scale and all we accomplished was to make a few hypocrites rich. The people that we cared about ended up suffering the same things that many of us did.
Don, you're right about that...we just wanted to help people, and got sucked into a false vision that we were going to go out and set the world on fire for Jesus. But like you said, the biggest result of the stupendous labors we expended was the obscene enrichment a handful of narcissistic elitists, while we neglected our own well-being and lived under a cloud of man-imposed guilt. Nice to be free of that.
The disciples of Christ spent three years around the best example of Godliness in the history of the world. Jesus was God manifested in the flesh, and the disciples walked with him every day, they ate with him and witnessed His miracles, they were shown a first hand example of what a Christian was supposed to be, but what happened when the religious hypocrites came to lead Jesus away to be crucified? Every one of His disciples forsook him. Everyone of the disciples fell short after three years of being with Him day and night and knowing that He was the Son of God. Everyone of the disciples fled when the religious hypocrites came to take Jesus away.
The ntcc has taken Jesus away from many of you in the ntcc. They have crucified him over and over again, by making merchandise of the people of God. The ntcc expects you to walk a more perfect line than the disciples of Jesus did, and they want your loyalties to be to them, rather than Jesus. Look at how they treat people. Wake up. Look how they treated Fontenot's ex-wife when she reported him for molesting,(raping), their young child. Olson told her to find another church while Davis harbored the child molesting pervert in the ntcc. That is wickedness. This is public information. Davis and Olson were willing to put other people's children in danger just to cover up one man's perversion.
You ntcc'rs are following people that have a history of sexual perversion and hiding offenders. If you go to bible school or send people to bible school, you are endorsing Kinson who was caught visiting a whore house in Japan. When the Roland Moreno reported Kinson, the same thing happened but even to a worse degree. Kinson was promoted while Moreno got his fields plowed and was publicly humiliated by Ashmore, who has never denied his role or apologized to anyone for his part in any of the lives of the people who have come forward with testimonies of abuse.
People want to pay their tithe to these creeps. They want to help build a work for the Lord. These people have wreaked havoc in the lives of thousands of people. There is hardly anyone left, who have survived the ntcc experience. There is however a long list of people who have come on the blogs and shared their stories of grief and abuse, while the ntcc will not even answer for any of it. The only thing they are good for is getting on the blogs and anonymously attacking the character of those who report things against them.
Vic said:
"and lived under a cloud of man-imposed guilt. Nice to be free of that."
DNA said:
It is very nice to be free from that. Guilt was an emotion that the ntcc capitalized on. I'm not sure about you Vic, or anyone else, but I lived under a constant cloud of guilt almost the whole time I was in the ntcc. Most of the guilt was centered on trying to live up to standards that were unrealistic. Trying to be the best soldier that I could in the Army. Trying to be the best Christian. We had guilt being heaped upon us from all angles.
In the army when things didn't go smoothly, I could blame the devil. I could say that's just the devil fighting, when it was really my lack of preparation due to my extracurricular activities in the ntcc that kept me from preparing. There was still guilt, because inside you knew that you could have been more prepared.
In the ntcc when things didn't go smoothly it was nobodies fault but your own. You couldn't blame the pastor, you couldn't blame the brother or sister, and you couldn't blame God; It was all your fault. If you even thought of blaming God, your pastor or the ntcc, you would be considered an heretic and an apostate. We were kept under a constant state of man-imposed guilt so that we would try harder and harder to obtain perfection. Let me share a huge disillusion with those of you in the ntcc that might disagree. You will never, ever, ever obtain perfection. No matter how hard you try, no matter who you try to impress in the ntcc, there is no way you will ever please everyone in the ntcc. You will never be perfect. God might have pity on you, and you might be successful in some ventures but you will never satisfy the ntcc leadership or impress them enough to get rid of the guilt they place you under.
I haven't felt that same amount of guilt since I left the ntcc, and it sure is good to be free from it. If you are living under a cloud of guilt, I doubt that is what God has chosen for you.
Don, the whole "the devil is fighting me" scenario is so bogus. It stoked our egos to think that we were such a threat that the devil was aware of our greatness and wickedly hindering our progress. If we would have only stepped back and taken an objective look at our situations, we would have likely discovered that the source of our "battle" was some bad decision, influenced by our participation in a weird "church". Instead we gloried in our mythical conflict against the forces of darkness, imagining ourselves as great soldiers of the cross, vital to "the program of God." So we were always broke, uptight, and worn out. "The devil" was the bogeyman NTCC preachers loved to trot out to keep us superstitious. But the devil didn't need to come a within a thousand miles of us because we were just self-destructing.
A whole lot of my "battles" disappeared when I got away from the org and its toxic thought patterns. Life is much easier and more enjoyable when it's simpler, and nothing can complicate life quite like "The NTCC Experience."
I had a friend that worked in the school system. He was Maintenance, Grouds keeper and janitor. He did whatever they asked him to do. His boss was over about 5 or 6 full time maintenance people and he was more of a delegator than he was a lead by example type of guy. The guy in charge had one duty that he never shirked, and he always insisted on being the one to perform this duty. He would collect, count and turn in the money from the vending machines to the school administrative office every day.
It was later determined that this man had stolen over $70,000.00 in vending machine money over a period of 15 years. He eventually admitted to stealing over $25,000.00 and was charged with multiple felony counts of embezzling funds from a Government institution. They went easy on him and didn't give him any jail time because he confessed and because of his involvement in a local church. He stood up and confessed his sins during a church service one night while seeking forgiveness. Do you know what this man's excuse was? He told the congregation that the devil made him do it.
The devil does get blamed for a lot of things and I guess it's rightly so, because after all, he is the devil, right? Well this hoodwinking huckster got fired from his job and My friend ended up being the boss. I asked him if the devil ever approached him about stealing vending machine money from a middle school, and he said that it wasn't a thought he'd ever entertain for even one second.
Jesus cast out many devils, so we know that the devil has his minions out there. But we were so far gone in the ntcc, that we didn't need much help from the devil. If I were to attribute anything about my ntcc experience to the devil, it would have to be the false doctrines and the cult like atmosphere. There are lying spirits and deceivers and false teachers who appear as ministers of light. If you want to label anyone a devil, or attribute the works of the devil to anyone, you need look no further than R-dub himself, or Kekel, or Olson. These were some truly evil people. They basically ran a spiritual concentration camp and hid it all behind a front of holiness and other man made doctrines. It was all a cover to hide the sins of the ntcc leaders and a vehicle to help them accumulate wealth.
When you have such a corrupt organization and the leaders back each other's play, there is no need for the devil to attack the ordinary cult member. The cult members are all doing what they have been taught. We all were puppets on strings for a few sick people to control. We would obey rules that took our Christian freedom away and we would obey doctrines that were nowhere to be found in the bible.
The question was asked over on Chief's blog, "What would happen to you if you stopped paying tithe"? So many people answered that question without any supporting scripture. My answer is, "I guess we'd have to live by grace". I guess we'd eliminate the need for a bunch of hucksters to get filthy rich off of the Gospel. We'd have to live just like the early church when people actually cared about each other and gave to help one another instead of giving to make a few decepticons rich. That's what giving to the church was all about back then. Read your bibles and stop believing false doctrines. Giving to the church was giving to other members of the body of Christ who were in need. Where do we find scriptures that support taking up offerings to buy new buildings. They preached and taught in houses and wherever they could in those days. They took up collections for the poor saints in Jerusalem. They emphasized love one towards another and nobody got rich like Kekel or Davis.
There will always be doctrines of devils, and people will always have itching ears. They hear what they want to hear. It doesn't matter what we say or what scripture supports. If people want to give their money to a con artist there is not much we can do to stop them.
Vic wrote...
Don, the whole "the devil is fighting me" scenario is so bogus.
Chief said...
You are wrong about that Vic. The Devil WAS fighting us. His name was Davis. He was making our lives plenty miserable. The only mistake we made was not knowing who the Devil was. The vast majority of our problems were the direct result of us being part of the NTCC. Financial problems, family problems, stability problems. We thought the Devil was fighting us when our parents were trying to talk some sense into us. That was actually our parents trying to fight the Devil.
Devil my butt. The Devil stopped fighting us when we joined the NTCC because Davis took over all the Devils work. All the Devil had to do was sit back, enjoy the show, eat popcorn and a soda. Good grief, Davis was the Devil's hero for crying out loud. The Devil probably learned a few things from Davis. LOL.
The Devil was like, "Wow, I never thought of that one". "Good move Davis". "I'll add that one to my play book". The Devil was Davis' biggest supporter.
Chief
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