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| Helen and James Ross Ashmore have left "the organization" aka NTCC of A, Inc. Will Helen's sister Kathy Jordan and her hubby George Jordan follow suit? Will George Jordan's brother (Timothy) Paul Jordan and his wife Veneta follow them out? Will Helen's daughter and son-in-law Lorraine and John DiFrancesco leave too? Will James and Helen reconcile with her disfellowshipped son Jerry aka Larry Duran and his many children and wife Penny Hampton? So many questions as this former NTCC Board Member and alleged hatchet man and his wife flee from the wrath to come... (IMO) Is this another split for the NTCC? |
James Ross Ashmore has a Twitter account that he hasn't updated; it lists him as "Pastor NTCC North Chapel at Liberty Station Jesus Preacher". He also has a link to his blog called "JesusMyGlory [dot] net". He also, apparently, favors his one grandson not sired in an adulterous relationship, as that lad's name forms his Twitter URL being preceded and followed by the digit 1: thus http:twitter [dot] com/1bryden1. We think it's pretty tacky to penalize your other grandkids (the children of adulterers Penny Hampton and Helen's son Jerry aka Larry Duran and Jerry's abandoned daughter; whom he left with his wife Christine when he deserted them to pursue Penny) for something they had no control over; but hey, that's the kind of guy James Ross Ashmore is. For years he blithely followed and was the henchman for serial adulterer Rodger Wilson Davis; but as soon as people found out that Jerry Duran ran off with Rich Hampton's wife, Penny, well, Jim decided to disfellowship them. Hmm. It's so typical that in the ntcc standards only apply to some people, not all. That is called Double Standards and is not godly. God has one standard for all. The following is an excerpt from Ashmore's blog and can be found by clicking into the tab labelled "What I Believe":
"I used to minister in a way that was perhaps more a ministry of judgment, trying to be like some preacher of the past like Charles Finney, Jonathan Edwards, etc.., only to find I was following a pattern that was not necessarily the pattern of God’s Gospel. I say this, NOT to get into an argument about whether these men were used by God or not, but all things must be tested by the touchstone of SCRIPTURE no matter how wise or logical things might appear to be since it is the Scriptures that will judge us, and NOT what other men have believed. Either those men are our examples, or Jesus Christ and the early Apostles are the intended examples given to us by God to follow. I am not sitting in judgment on such men of the past, they will stand or fall to their own Master, but I must minister as God has revealed to me, knowing I will be judged, NOT by those saints of the past, but by the Word of God."
If this is an apology, Jim, then 'you suck at apologies'! Here we find Ashmore admitting that he 'perhaps' had a ministry of judgment. What? There is no 'perhaps'. No question, Jim, you had a ministry of judgment; which really is not a ministry. Ministry means service. By no means does that apply to what you did from the pulpit and lectern. And what about all the souls that Ashmore has railed against over the years? I've heard tapes and probably still have some where Ashmore rails against people in Judgment; and I've seen his handiwork up close and personal during the many visits that he made to Servicemen's Homes and churches Stateside and overseas; where he ran people off while collecting large amounts of money along the way. If he wants to apologize to people, he should find some of the thousands of people he ran off over the years, and cut them a check for whatever tithe and offering money that he conned them out of. People were living off of grocery budgets of $20 a week and less while giving the majority of their income to the so called 'work of Gawd' where Ashmore, Davis and Kekel would spend it upgrading their mansions and buying luxury vehicles. Now all of the sudden we are supposed to think that Ashmore has changed and become a kinder and gentler preacher who focuses on the love of God? Why all of the sudden has he left? If Davis was still alive do you think Ashmore would be in such a hurry to bail on the ntcc? We all know the answer to that.
Spiritual Assassin
While Ashmore was in the ntcc, he was nothing more than a spiritual assassin. What was it that drove Moreno to kill his wife, four year old child and unborn child? Kinson had Moreno take him to the whorehouse to retrieve his wallet and Moreno reported it. Kinson was removed from that work and Ashmore was given the job of spiritually assassinating Moreno. Roland Moreno was ostracized by Ashmore and Blacklisted, which began a downward spiral in which the ntcc would never allow Moreno to find peace in the ntcc. By the time Moreno confided in Matt Reed, Roland was completely broken in spirit. Reed believed Roland and confronted Davis about letting Kinson be a Board Member when he had committed adultery. Davis quickly verified that everything Moreno had told Matt Reed was true by pointing his finger in Reed's face and telling him that it was not his place to involve himself in other men's adulterous affairs. H-E-L-L-O!
Ashmore was also dispatched to assassinate the character and spiritual lives of Lisa Norton and Lori Kelly in St. Louis, when Davis was trying to hide his own adulterous affairs from the congregation. Davis had been molesting and violating Lisa's 16 year old sister, Pam Norton, while her husband Johnny Jordan was working for Davis in the office. Johnny Jordan later raped Lisa Norton, (Pam's younger sister) and impregnated her by rape at the innocent age of 14. Lisa was then abandoned by her 'mother', (Barbara Norton) on Christmas Day at the behest of Davis. Davis moved and covered for the child molesting and raping Johnny Jordan by moving him and Lisa's older sister Pam and their 'mother' Barbara Norton Warwick up to Washington state. It was at this point that Ashmore was in the bully pulpit blasting Lisa and her best friend Lori, calling them "whores" and "sluts" in front of the whole congregation. Davis had Lisa's mom abandon her with her special needs brother Terry, and Davis ordered some of the brethren to remove most of the furnishings, clothing, dinnerware and the Christmas tree and presents from her house. Ashmore was the one who was dispatched to destroy a young girl to cover for Davis's child molesting and rape (Vaginal Penetration) of a minor.
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| Read About Lisa Norton's Life here |
I was also told that during a previous conversation with Ashmore, our source says that Ashmore told him that the ntcc no longer believed in the holiness standards that they once used to place people in hell if they did not adhere to or practice those standards. While looking at the updated version of the bylaws posted on the ntcc's site called myntcc [dot] org, I noticed that all of the so-called holiness definitions were removed. These rules in the ntcc bylaws were used to incorrectly indoctrinate people into living an awkward life never preached by Jesus; but the ntcc required members to adhere to these rules; which they called holiness. While they preached women should not wear make-up and ran young women out of their churches for "looking like Jezebel," many of the hypocritical board members' wives used foundation make-up to cover and hide wrinkles and blemishes. Verna Davis herself would wear pajama bottom pants at the Lodge on the NTCC campground; while women in many of the servicemen's works were forced to discontinue their career paths in the military because ntcc taught it was ungodly for them to wear pants. Hunh? Can you say Double Standard? Many church members left in tears because the ntcc would preach hell fire and brimstone to those who did not fit R-dub's definition of a Christian; and many of the brainwashed people from the ntcc were permanently and emotionally damaged.
James Ross Ashmore was at the forefront of shaping, preaching, teaching, and enforcing these false doctrines. He used the pulpit and lectern to harm many souls by railing on them mercilessly. And now he seems to think a half-hearted, self-justifying, feeble attempt at an apology on his lame web site will somehow make a difference? To me he is still the same snake. He's just shed his old skin. That's just my opinion. You think what you want. And please don't come on here and try to defend him. If you want to think that way, go tell it to The Moreno Family. See how well that works. Approximately one month after his pregnant daughter and grandchildren were murdered, Maria's father, Mr. Burton passed away; they say he died of a broken heart. I'd have to agree. These false doctrines that were rigidly / strictly enforced by the likes of Ashmore can have permanent eternal deadly consequences. Think about that.
105 comments:
We did verify this report (that Ashmore is out) through a second source, just in case anyone had any doubts.
I looked at his website and there are no references to who he is. Why is he trying to hide his identity? FEAR of MAN brings a snare. Will he now experience the SHUNNING of that old organization and lies that follow? Remember what you have sown- YOU MUST REAP. This is God's inviolate WORD.
I went to NTCC with Ashmore and have his earliest teachings on tape. I guess he found out that the current NTCC leadership leaves much to be desired. But RW gave it to MCK. So really he is rejecting the leadership of RW after all. He should have stood up for the truth when it was not convenient, long ago. I left that group 30 years ago! Does this not say more about Ashmore's true constitution than anything else?
A spiritual earthquake has just hit NTCC then. RW often said the Holy Ghost never has led anyone to leave NTCC. That makes RW wrong or JRA wrong. There IS NO MIDDLE GROUND. Also we can look for the FIRE to come down now and destroy NTCC, now that they have compromised. There is no middle ground. It has to happen unless they have all been deceived. Well then, i wonder what the truth is. JRA has repudiated all that NTCC stands for. He owes it to the current enslaved hundreds to rescue them according to that Book that he proclaims!
WOW I really am stumped and at a loss for words! On one hand it's a great thing to hear he's out. It's always great to hear someone is out! On the other hand I agree MUCH more of an apology needs to happen than that nominal attempt if it was even! I HATED hearing him at the pulpit. I think the bashing he did was more scarring than any one else. Kekel 2nd to Ashmore. He sounded like he would eat and breathe bitter, hateful spats of fire. I'll NEVER forget how rude and belittling he was. He bashed and belittled and bashed and belittled. I completely believe he was worse than Davis.
I just hope and pray he comes around and doesn't start another branch like the HOP. I hope and pray he comes to the truth and stops hurting people.
We've added some links and updated the photograph caption.
Photon DD said...
I looked at his website and there are no references to who he is. Why is he trying to hide his identity?
DNA said:
Helen Ashmore has a sight just like his except she has more pictures on hers and not as much rambling on. Niether one of them take credit or responsibility for what they share. I think they are a lot like Davis when it comes to being secretive. The less publicity they get the more likely their church members will not find out what they are all about. Now when his San Diego Church members or contacts google him, they will most likely stumble across this blog post, hopefully and they will have questions to ask and decisions to make.
Many people look down on us, for blogging about the leaders of this corrupt organization, and they look down on you for commenting even though what you share is true. The sad thing about it all is that more energy is expended by current and X-members in shooting us down, than realizing that the ntcc and it's leaders were doing much worse damage to them while we are just drawing attention to it. Jeff and the GS/DS both were ignored for years and many belittled them for blogging against these crooks and hypocrites.
Now you have Ashmore ('The Preaching Machine') leaving and I think that there will be more to follow. But if you are freeing yourself from the bondage of the ntcc, why be secret about it? The only reason I can think of is that Ashmore is going to continue to use the same tactics to manipulate people with that Davis used, but he just wants a bigger piece of the pie than what he will get if he stays with the Kekels, who were place in charge by JRA's idol, Davis.
Photon DD said,
"But RW gave it to MCK. So really he is rejecting the leadership of RW after all. He should have stood up for the truth when it was not convenient, long ago. I left that group 30 years ago!"
DNA said,
This is a huge event and I believe there will be a lot of fall out because of it. JRA wouldn't dare leave while Davis was alive. JRA is now rejecting the leadership of the ntcc, which was put in place by JRA's idol Davis. Someone has got to be wrong. Is it the ntcc or Ashmore, or both? By leaving the ntcc, Ashmore has basically rejected not only the Kekels and all of those who he left behind in the organization, but he is also rejecting Davis who chose the Kekels over him to rule this billion dollar empire.
Thanks DD for being a voice of reason from the past. We are glad that you didn't become one of these board members that are totally lost in the false doctrine of fear and legalism. We hope more people will see the light and escape from this cult before the majority of their lives are ruined.
Photon DD said:
"RW often said the Holy Ghost never has led anyone to leave NTCC. That makes RW wrong or JRA wrong. There IS NO MIDDLE GROUND. Also we can look for the FIRE to come down now and destroy NTCC, now that they have compromised."
DNA said:
I would say that your logic is unquestionable. I would say that both are wrong. The doctrine of Davis leaves no place for compromise and the ntcc has already sold out and no longer proclaims holiness as a mandatory doctrine. They'll have to answer for the tens of thousands of souls that they have run off or destroyed with this doctrine. Davis only used the doctrine of holiness as a control mechanism to make his millions and knew that this doctrine would not stand the test of time. People were flirting with the concept of 'worldliness' long before Davis died, and Davis knew that Kekel would be the first to make changes after his death. The Davis doctrine of complete control would was never meant to outlive him, but the sole purpose of it was to make him rich, and it did. The Kekels will most likely become even more filthy rich than Davis. They are going to usher in a new era of worldly tithe paying and offering giving 'Christians' who will continue to be controlled by Kekel just like the Davis cult members were controlled by Davis.
To those of you who still want to hold on to the traditions of Davis, you might want to consider leaving, because Kekel no longer has any use for you. Kekel is in complete control of the ntcc in case you haven't noticed and he doesn't care how you live; he just wants your money, and he will probably end up becoming the leader of a mega cult (church). Don't be surprised at what we are saying. We have been right about the ntcc all along, and many of you have scorned us for what we have shared on this blog. We are not your enemies. We share the truth that thousands of others have realized before us, and many will find out soon. You have a decision to make.
Holiness was defined by Davis, and now is being replaced and redefined by Kekel. Now it's called Separation, but it no longer will have the same face that it had when RWD used to preach it. Stick around and find out if I'm lying. Visit their facebook pages and look at the new worldly face of the modern day 'holiness Christian'. Look at Verna. She couldn't wait to paint her face like Jezebel. I'm only throwing the same names at them, that they threw at us. Breaking News!!!!!! These people are not Christians, they are money grubbing hypocrites, like we have been telling you all along.
Kat said:
"On the other hand I agree MUCH more of an apology needs to happen than that nominal attempt if it was even! I HATED hearing him at the pulpit. I think the bashing he did was more scarring than any one else."
DNA said:
Ashmore hasn't changed, but the ntcc has. The ntcc throwing Davis and his doctrine under the bus. Kekel has always been a product of the greedy hypocrite that he emulated. Davis gave him a blue print to become filthy rich and he has amended that blue print to become even more filthy rich. Mike and Tanya will do whatever they need to preserve themselves through the upcoming changes, but they have the keys to the kingdom and they hold the deeds to all of the real estate.
Ashmore will probably go to his grave without apologizing to anyone. He might admit that he used to be judgmental but until he does something to recompense the people he has hurt, it is all just smoking glass and a tinkling symbol.
I hope nobody is overly surprised that Ashmore doesn't want to subject himself to the likes of Kekel. I hope nobody is surprised that the ntcc is taking the plunge into worldliness as defined by it's founder Davis. Especially those of you in the ntcc that have seen this moment coming with your own eyes but have denied what all of the bloggers have been telling you for years now. We are sorry that your vision for the ntcc and Christianity has been forever marred by the lies that now are being manifested and propagated by Kekel and those that follow him.
I wonder how the inner circle- the Board is reacting to the news of Ashmore. I knew these men except for DeFancisco. I never thought of Kekel as a prospective leader. I knew JLJohnson as a peacemaker trying at times to wiggle out from under RW's strictness of attitude. I witnessed JHOlson experience the 'love'/pain/torture physically as RW inflicted on him- "please sir, no" I can still hear him crying out. What a life, huh?
BTW, what is the link to Helen's site?
Helen Ashmore's website address is: http://frommyheart2u.wordpress.com/
Ashmore simply got tired of sending the money to Graham that he had conned out of his church members. He finely got tired of lining the pockets of Kekel and his spoiled wife. So I guess it took him only 40 years to figure out that he'd been a judgmental jerk. Whatever. Same old song and dance; just a different approach. Ashmore, Denis, Barnes; three different apples fallen from the same tree.
Brother D said...
I wonder how the inner circle- the Board is reacting to the news of Ashmore. I knew these men except for DeFancisco. I never thought of Kekel as a prospective leader.
DNA Said:
On the ntcc website, we noticed about a month before Davis died that the leadership was entirely restructured and titles were given to certain people and the responsibilities changed drastically. The only People on the board that were listed with pictures were Davis as the Founder who was still alive at that time, Olsen as the Chairman of the Board and President, Kekel as the Chief Executive Officer, Johnson as the General Overseer and DiFrancesco as the Secretary. If you look closely at the descriptions of their titles, everything and every decision is made by Kekel. He has the final approval on all matters while Olson is pretty much a figurehead to make sure that the transition is as smooth as possible. Davis carefully chose people that he knew would be okay with their roles under Kekel. Ashmore was not included, neither was Jones, or other long time board members. Ashmore definitely was the worse threat to Kekel because he had done everything Kekel has never done and we was the man that Kekel could or never would be.
You are absolutely right Bro. D. Kekel was not a good leader and never will be, but by default and his marriage to Tanya he holds the keys and the deeds to the real estate empire. He doesn't need Ashmore anymore and having him around would be more of a liability than an asset. I expect many of the long time 'holiness' preachers to follow Ashmore out the door. Kekel has no use for them any more and with plans to introduce compromise in wholesale to the multitudes, Kekel will probably hold the door open for them.
As for Johnson, while he might seem a little more liberal than Davis, he seems relaxed and in his element with Kekel. He has all the money and nice things money can buy thanks to all the brain washed suckers that have given to the ntcc over the years. DiFancesco is the SECRETary and he knows where all the bodies are buried. He's not going anywhere because you can rest assure that Kekel and Olson have the lowdown on him and there would hell to pay if he ever started talking. If you ever hear of DiFrancesco disappearing don't be naive thinking that you will ever find him alive. He will simply disappear off the face of the earth forever. I'm sorry I forgot. This is a Christian organization, isn't it?
If DiFrancesco is ever brought into the witness protection program, watch out ntcc, you are all going down.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Ashmore simply got tired of sending the money to Graham that he had conned out of his church members. He finely got tired of lining the pockets of Kekel and his spoiled wife.
DNA said:
There certainly is no lack of brainwashed suckers out there if he wants to start a cult of his own. I'm sure there are a few manipulative jerks who will follow him and help him recruit fruits that are ripe for the picking. All you need to do is preach, All Christians pay tithes and give in offerings. Don't forget your love offerings, your donation to the general fund, Budget offerings, revival gifts and make sure you shine the pastors shoes and buy him dinner at the steakhouse on Sunday afternoon. God will bless you if you do these things, don't you know? Oh yeah, and while he's sleeping on Sunday afternoon dreaming about the latest hot chick to attend service on Sunday, make sure you wash his car and wax it really good for him. God will bless you.
On Ms. Ashmore's site she seems to stress, 'Don't live in the past' OK. That's nice to say, but if one has left a long bunch of casualties in the rear view mirror, the decent thing is to stop and give them aid. Or are we hit-and-run ministers/people? I read that Jesus taught once about that man who was wounded... in the ditch and... who was it that stopped to help him RECOVER? Not those religious dudes... but I realize its one thing to change your location, but another thing to change WHO and WHAT you are INSIDE.
Do damage and then flee? What about restitution? I recall another fellow that told the LORD - Lord, if I have harmed anyone, I will repay... and make it right... Jesus said NOW THIS GUY HAS GOT IT! That's actual SALVATION. OK!
I previously wrote... re: RW's "strictness of attitude" (that's a stretch) I could have written: a person exhibiting sociopathic tendencies.
Once in the 1970's long ago... RW said he was so glad that there would be little RW's out there preaching someday - inside my soul I gasped- OMG, no! that would be horrible! and guess what - some were build in his mold. (2 types of mold. Black mold and cookie-cutter mold.)
We are to be transformed into the image of Jesus. Now you have a human-built organization that is tainted ebola-style. The evidence is a spirit of fear. Tainted people build tainted things. BUt old RW put a curse on them if they ever strayed from his teachings. They better be sure their fire insurance is up-to-date. RW said God would burn it up, or down, fire from heaven, etc. So lets see.
After forty years of building up ntcc, its truly hard to believe that the ashmores have given up there position or there affiliation with ntcc.
Ashmore, was one of the main architect of the ntcc doctrine, he pushed it, he preached it, he carried out there agenda, so we should all be skeptical when we here of ashmore not being affiliated with ntcc anymore.
David Hickman wrote... I remember having fellowship with Ashmore. He lived right behind me in the Bonco compound. I vividly remember him telling me as we sat down drinking coffee in the front room, that when he first encountered NTCC he found it to be "weird" and never wanted to stay. I asked him, "why did you stay?" He told me it was because of Mom and Pop Gaylord and the love that they showed him. From that point forward I never believed JRA to be "all the way in". This is quite a devastating blow to the "NEW" NTCC.
David Hickman Former Graham Lay Pastor wrote: I remember having coffee with Ashmore; he lived right behind me at the Bonco compound. We were talking about how we came in contact with NTCC, he shared with me that when he first came in contact with NTCC he found them to be "weird" and wanted to leave. I asked him why he stayed. He said it was because of the testimony and love of Mom and Pop Gaylord that he stayed. Never mentioned anything about Davis. I found that fellowship time to be very revealing, because years earlier I was the secretary for JR Rodrigues in Lakewood Washington and his testimony was very similar. Stating he only stayed because of the Gaylords and never mentioned anything concerning Davis. Honestly I'm not surprised the Ashmores left....
Many of us in the 70's went to ntcc because of the Gaylord's love. The Gaylords often took us servicemen to PCOG services, special meetings, etc. I even went in 1973 to a meeting in Merced, CA with RW andcthe Gaylords. We were around when other denom preachers fellowshipped with ntcc before ntcc cut off all other church fellowship. When I went to ntcc they alliwed students to attend other churches... imagine that! It was only slowly they shut the doors to others. JH Olson had a friend in Bellvue IL, who was on staff at 2170 Forest, Brother Wilsin, etc... NTCC started out as a friendly place, really!
But it was as you sold all and went full hog for ntcc that RW laid down the law, literally, demanding full loyalty even if it meant going against what you knew in your heart was right. Anyway as I pkayed piano and Ashmore led music, the spirut within me heard a word like, "In the future you wont be with this group" . The departure of Ashmore has confirmed to me that God IS leading as always, people OUT from Ntcc.
Hmmm......Lets see Ashmore was high on the totem pole with Davis. Kekel didn't like Ashmore so when he took charge Ashmore went low on the totem pole. Now that Davis is dead he has to leave before he is completely thrown off the totem pole having what the average NTCCer has which is "NOTHING". Finally he makes a lame apology so maybe more Exers will except him.
Seen too much experienced too much! I don't buy the lame apology at all.
A snake to a worm and that is an improvement?
Hugs,
Julie
Mom and Pop Gaylord were the best ever. They just loved you and you knew that it was genuine.
Huh, here we go again. I would rejoice if I thought he left because he's experienced some sort of transformation, but I don't see any evidence of that. Until he openly acknowledges the elephant in the room, the reasonable conclusion is that he just wasn't down with the Phil and Mike show. He saw all the ugliness and crime up close, and it just won't do to pretend none of it happened. I'm unimpressed. People who leave the org because they've been awakened to its true nature don't carry all its furniture with them. It will be interesting to see what develops from this, but hopefully no one is expecting that he's going to restore some mythical former glory, because it was phony from the beginning.
Someone I know is still in the cult and we have been talking about the damage control being done. Olsen is traveling around the country holding sessions to describe why Ashmore left. From what I gathered, they are telling people that Ashmore has been pulling away from the group for some time now and that it was mostly about the money and his move toward the miraculous healing. I think the name of Benny Hin(?) was thrown around. Of course they are making Ashmore look bad and putting the spin on in their favor all in the name of Love.
Ashmore has an account on facebook where he posts what he believes and why. Why doesn't Olson or someone go on it and refute it and show where Ashmore is mistaken or are they afraid? It's cheaper then a plane ticket too.
I recall how Ashm was having great revival in Washington, RW shut it down, moved him out, and the excitement died down. I tried to press him about it, he was mum, actually running away from me. NTCC never had many miracles, much less real revival. In a real revival the leaders repent in great tears and submission before the people. That's the opposite of Ntcc. Yet I notice this is exactly what Jesus instituted. The lack of humility.. will prove to be the spiritual death of any group.
Hello all,
I always wondered why Ashmore wasn't "the man". I had a weeklong revival in the 90's with him and I must admit he and Rev Curry were incredible. I can't say I know much about coverups and such as I never went to bible school and was only there for about 4 years.
I think Ashmore's departure is definitely an earthquake as he was looked at as one of the few guys that had "Healing" experiences.
The only guy I ever remember hearing with similar reverence to Davis was Ashmore. How can they brush this aside... Now they have to fight Hopp and whatever Ashmore decides to do.
Could be death of a thousand cuts.
For those of you in the know on the hierarchy of this church after Davis and Keckel who are the real movers and shakers? I've never met any of the other board members except for Johnson but he didn't carry the reverence that Ashmore and Davis did. I never new of Denis but I guess he was up there in power.
Just curious.
Mike
For those of you in the know on the hierarchy of this church after Davis and Keckel who are the real movers and shakers? I've never met any of the other board members except for Johnson but he did carry the reverence that Ashmore and Davis did.
Just curious.
Mike
I was only in the church from 1999-2000. I'm curious as to how the alliance of Pop Gaylord and Davis occurred?
Is there church history I can read about.
I only ask because of some of the comments how people stayed because of Pop Gaylord. I got to meet he and his wife once and they seemed like the sweetest people on earth.
Does anyone know if the numbers are heading down? Is the conferences smaller? What about the church's around military bases? With Ashmore's departure so close to the death of Davis it appears the wheels are falling off. Bottom line, is this church dying?
Ashmore had one of the most revered reputations among the congregations. He was known for healing services, holy ghost services. I heard he was the "walking Bible" from some.
Not sure if Reverend Cox is still in the church but I learned quick that pastors had one of two pictures of pastors. Davis or Ashmore (or both). They were the two people really looked up too.
On Fact net Mom n Pop's Grandchild used the screen name "Sick of the Myths" and Vic Johanson copied their comment to Jeff's blog:
Vic Johanson said...
Wow--went to that FACTnet link and saw this alternate take on the Gaylords:
http://www.factnet.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=2439
Sick of the Myths
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 1
My memories of "Mom and Pop" Gaylord
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctyankee
I would like to invite anybody who was touched by the lives of these two "saints" to tell some of their experiences. I miss them greatly and thank God that I had the opportunity to come into contact with them.
Response:
Where to start? Let us start back in 1933. That is when my father, Robert, was born to Eileen Pratt. She told her only son later in life that she tried to abort him. At the age of 2, my father's parents divorced. Eileen didn't really want him around so dad was bounced around from relative to relative. Eileen married a man named Vern. This was so time between 1938-42.
Around the age of 7, my father was sent to live at a dreadful boarding school called Briscoe (may be a thread on FACTnet, haven't checked) run by the Irish "Christian" Brothers. He was there for several years with occasional visits to Eileen and Vern.
I am not sure when she and Vern divorced. She married for a third time around the time dad was 15 to a Master Sergeant in the USAF, named William K. Gaylord.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctyankee
... To me they epitomized what it means to be true Christians. They truely loved God, lived a holy life, enjoyed life and showed the love of God by reaching out to the servicemen with the Gospel. In all my time I was around them they never abused their authority, and always showed concern for us and the love of Christ. They had a servant's heart.
Response:
But not towards their own families.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctyankee
For those of you who didn't know them, Pop Gaylord got saved while a Master Sergeant in the Air Force. He and his wife devoted the rest of their lives to reaching the GI's with the Gospel, and started what are known as Christian Servicemen's Homes. I got saved in one of these homes, where GI's were allowed to live in a Christian atmosphere. It was a very positive experience in my Christian walk...
Response:
I am truly happy that they were a positive influence in your life. Yes, they did many good things, and did spread the Christian message around. Also, I don't think people should be judged by youthful choices alone. HOWEVER, I do believe actions speak louder than words. I CRINGE every time I read how wonderful Mom and Pop were. Even their nicknames evoke a sense of affection that was grossly absent in my father's life and my own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ctyankee
I have alot of fond memories (and some funny ones) of both of them. I'll never forget one time when they were over our house for fellowship, when my son was just a toddler. They had him on their lap, and they were just like two grandparents with their grandson.
Response:
When I read this line I wanted to SCREAM! I was outraged because that NEVER happened to me or my brother. WE were her only grandchildren and we were not treated with warm grand-parental doting or affection. Sir, I don't mean to take anything away from your positive experiences with them. I glad they gave that to you. It just ****es me off that we weren't given the same type of caring.
I think that will do for now. I have more to write, about NTCC, the Gaylords, but for now I will post this and go to bed.
FEBRUARY 28, 2011 1:50 AM
I don't know the history of this church other than what I've found throughout the internet and who knows if that's true. I've used this site to stay in touch though. I wasn't happy to hear it was being put on cruise control. I've read everything on this site twice to find answers and can only come to the conclusion that I don't know what to think about the time I spent in this org. How? Why? Lost years... Lost relationships... Keep following this site though.
David
I published this comment titled "Mom n Pop's Grandchild" to give voice to those with an alternate view or experience. I myself had very positive experiences with Mom and Pop Gaylord. My husband Don did too. But I am mystified as to why they stayed with the likes of davis.
The bible clearly states to have no fellowship with people professing Christianity who are adulterers.
There was clearly a spirit of adultery woven throughout the ntcc, just as yeast is woven into a lump of bread dough. It's pervasive.
You can look around and see people who were married, divorced, and remarried with all 4 of the people remaining within the ntcc. That's adultery.
You can also see people who have been divorced and remarried two and three times, and the org excuses it by claiming that the spouse who left ntcc left Gawd.
I've had discussions with some who left ntcc, but kept God.
I've also learned that MANY ntcc women leave because their spouse was abusing them physically and verbally and mentally and spiritually, all with the knowledge and therefore the consent of ntcc church leaders.
Beloved, these things ought not to be so in a church. If a spouse is being abused, the church should aid them, not back the play of the abuser! Unfortunately, in your ntcc, the opposite happens; the abuser has a free reign of terror over the victims whose cries for help fall on the deaf or delinquent ears of ntcc leaders.
Be careful what you hear from a ntcc pulpit. Don't believe what they say just because they are hiding behind a pulpit!
As I said, many witnesses have shared their painful experiences of being abused. I would not receive the testimony from an ntcc pulpiteer.
[1Co 5:9-13 KJV] 9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: 10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. 11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. 12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? 13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
When reading these verses and considering davis' impenitent adulterous life, it becomes obvious that he's a wicked person that should be put away.
Anonymous said,
"Not sure if Reverend Cox is still in ..."
Not sure if this is who you mean but,
click the name Kocks to see one of their Facebook profile pictures. Their timeline states theyattended NTCC Seminary.
Wonder what Pop Gaylord thinks of Ashmore leaving?
Reverend Kocks...
Are you still in??? I know Reverend Ashmore was one of the men you looked up to. What are your thoughts?
Mike J.
I get the feeling that Ashmore leaving could cause a grass roots movement among the preachers... I know a revolt is hard to achieve based on how this org is run but Denis did it, now they have to contend with Ashmore on the west coast.
Does anyone know how big his church was/is?
I know there are many hurt feelings but I wish him luck if he wants to start a better church.
If you are with the NTCC can anyone give me your honest reaction with regards to Rev Ashmore leaving? Don't need any gossip just an honest assessment of what your thoughts are.
A. J.
Sorry A.J. but most of the people who read this web site are not supposed to be in the ntcc, because our blog is supposed to be full of ungodly filth according to Kekel. It's amazing that ntcc'rs have to come here to find out information. Why not get an honest reaction from your honest pastor, or from your honest overseers? Perhaps you are afraid to ask? You have already gotten our honest assessment and considered it to be gossip so we probably can't help you on this blog. Why is it that your pastors and overseers are so hard to approach that you can't get a straight answer from them? You shouldn't have to visit an X-er blog to find out information on why someone left your organization. This should be a red flag to all of you cult attending members of the ntcc.
Just wanted to say thanks to those who put this site together... Ever since I left this church I've been miserable waiting for hell to catch up to me...
Please continue updates on the goings on at this church... It has saved me from my misery.
Finding out that those at the top are leaving has given me hope that my life isn't lost.
This is a very well put together site.
God bless
People from NTCC read this blog all the time. It's probably the best/worst site (depending on your side) on what's going on. I think A. J. was asking if someone who's from the church would give us info regarding their feelings. That's what I got from the question anyways.
I too would like to know what those on the inside of the church are feeling with this latest departure. How do you demonize a guy who's constantly preaching at the conferences, taught at the bible college, was a board member, was constantly talked about in the most glowing of terms, missionary, blah blah... How do you explain that?
So if you go to NTCC please give us your honest assessment of Rev. Ashmore leaving. Who else has to leave before you start to question what is going on? Kekle? Johnson? Olson?
Mike
Anonymous said:
"Finding out that those at the top are leaving has given me hope that my life isn't lost."
DNA said:
I definitely can relate. It took me 14 years to figure that out, and we are still unlearning some of the toxic doctrines that they tried to poison our minds with. You can pretty much take most of the things you were taught and throw them in the trash. Now that Ashmore is gone and the rest of the ntcc is pretending that their twisted holiness doctrine doesn't apply to them anymore, we now know that it was never about how we dressed or who we chose to be. It was always about money. We have said this many times and it's proven to be the one constant in the ntcc. Don't mess with a fool and his money. Don't mess with Kekel and don't dare talk to him about his money. You want to see Kekel's true spirit come out? You want to see what Kekel is really all about? You want to see how saved Kekel is? Start asking him about his money, and what he personally has done to help the world that he preaches against. Ask him if he thinks it's okay to walk by a homeless man and not give him a dime, and look at him like the scum of the earth, while he continues to amass millions. He hoards your tithe money, and if you stop paying it to him, you will never amount to anything in God, according to Kekel.
We were really stupid to give so much to Davis and Kekel. We squandered our futures away while they got filthy rich, and if you are in the ntcc, that is exactly what is happening to you. Gal 4:16 "Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?" We are considered the scum of the earth because we speak the truth. What will it take to wake you up from your slumber?
I'm talking to those of you in the ntcc who are reading this. You know something is wrong but you live in fear just like the rest of us did. Don't wait for them to run you off and leave you penniless to face the world without hope. Start putting aside money so you can transition back into society. Leaving the ntcc is a process and it can be difficult for a lot of people. One of the biggest lies you'll hear is that you can't be a Christian if you leave. You have to unlearn the garbage they have taught you.
Mike said:
" I think A. J. was asking if someone who's from the church would give us info regarding their feelings. That's what I got from the question anyways."
DNA said:
You have to recognize the cult jargon in the question.
A.J. said:
"If you are with the NTCC can anyone give me your honest reaction with regards to Rev Ashmore leaving?"
DNA say:
First of all, this question assumes that people in the ntcc are honest and implies that people that are not in the ntcc are dishonest. That's what I got from it. We've been doing this for a long time. Either A.J. is still in the ntcc and he doesn't believe much of what he reads on this blog or he is very naive and still believes everything he was taught by the ntcc.
A.J. Said:
"Don't need any gossip just an honest assessment of what your thoughts are."
DNA said:
Again we find the implication that what he's already read on this blog is gossip. Remember he is addressing ntcc'rs, looking for honesty.
If you want dishonesty and lies, go talk to the ntcc leadership. They are very secretive and will not even feel obligated to answer your questions. Honest people don't hide things. I'll ask again, why would someone come on an X-ntcc member blog looking for the truth? Could it be that they are tired of hearing the same old stories in the ntcc? They shovel that scripture at you, "Whatsoever things are of good report, if there be any virtue, think on these things". Phil 4:8
Kekel translates this to mean, "Ignore the corruption that you see going on right in front of your face and believe only what we tell you. Don't dare ask any questions that implicate us in any wrong doing or we will use our power to destroy you."
Don/Ange,
Good point, you are probably correct. I guess you would know and understand true "Cult Jargon" when you hear it.
Do you know if there is a consensus as to what the organization is putting out concerning his departure (the official company line)?
When he did break did he take his church along with the building (as it's not listed at all as a site of a church)?
Oh, and Johnny Football stinks! Go Vikings!
Anonymous said:
"Do you know if there is a consensus as to what the organization is putting out concerning his departure (the official company line)?"
DNA said:
Not sure if there is a company line other than everyone is in the hush mode. I'm not sure when you were in, but I know that years ago, you just didn't ask those kinds of questions. Someone did come on the blog recently and stated that Olson was on a damage control tour, flying in to different cities to deal with the aftermath. Aside from that, and if it's true, we haven't really heard what the company line is, we can only guess that they tried to handle it as delicately as possible and that usually includes a stern warning not to talk about such things among one another. I'm sure they preached against gossip and they probably warned people not to follow in Ashmore's footsteps.
We also believe that he is still pastoring the same people at the same church in San Diego. The person we talked to stated that when he spoke to Ashmore, he was told by Ashmore that he was continuing his ministry in San Diego. The fact that the ntcc no longer lists San Diego as on of it's locations and that Ashmore is still there leads us to conclude that Ashmore kept his congregation and possibly the building he was in. There has been quite a bit of personal information shared with us on the sexual sins of Davis, Kekel and Ashmore. I have to believe that Kekel knows Ashmore's history and Ashmore knows Kekel's history. If this is true, the split was probably mutual and instead of transferring the building back to the ntcc, other arrangements were made. This is just an educated guess. Many people who read this blog don't believe the victims of Davis, Ashmore and Kekel. We believe them and feel that they have no reason to lie. We also have heard from others that do not want us to publish their stories and in some ways their accounts substantiates the written accounts that we have.
Anonymous said:
"Oh, and Johnny Football stinks! Go Vikings!"
DNA said:
I agree with your assessment of Johnny Football. Also the Vikings looked very good last year in a building year. Teddy Bridgewater looks like he has a very promising future and if the Vikes can secure AP that may be a good thing. Go Vikings! Go Broncos!
I quit coming to church simply because I went to Korea and "Fell out", had too much fun not soul winning, watching movies with friends, having an adult beverage from time to time and on and on.
I'd have had an easier time quitting if I had the opportunity to see the split, along with Ashmore leaving.
I still am amazed by the time requirements put on those that are in the program. I can't believe anyone would put themselves though that. You have to quit everything to include spending time with your family.
I'm also wondering if strict programs like this breed sexual misconduct. I only ask this because it seems to be a motif of cults to be neck deep in this sort of thing.
I don't know any guy who hasn't taken a peek at the internet underbelly purely out of interest. Yet, what it sounds like has been going on in this org is just outrageous.
I sometimes can't or don't want to believe the stories of those on this site. I was in this org. How many are still suffering?
Mike
I stopped going because my wife went through depression and I turned in the a total punk. Glad I left. Not healthy.
So in the by laws it states that the organization goes on in perpetuity. However, it does have a liquidation clause if things are to be shut down. Since so much is made of this org being out for money what does happen to all the real estate across the country?
Really my question is, if this org falls apart do the higher ups walk away with millions?
That would really tick me off.
Vikings need to draft either DE Fowler or WR Cooper. Super bowl Bound!!!
I'm still in the church. Everything is falling apart. How do I escape?
I am a current minister. Attending the Graham church here in Washington right NOW. I'm fed up and ready to leave.
I'm planning on joining rev Ashmores church in the very near future.
I tired of relgion and control. I want to see jesus. I want to have liberty.
Pray for. Me.
I'm not disclosing my name. yet.
Anonymous said...
"I quit coming to church simply because I went to Korea and "Fell out", had too much fun not soul winning, watching movies with friends, having an adult beverage from time to time and on and on.
I'd have had an easier time quitting if I had the opportunity to see the split, along with Ashmore leaving."
DNA said:
I have to say that you are better off watching movies and hanging out with friends and even having an adult beverage from time to time than you are having someone like Ashmore or Davis playing around in your mind. You have a better chance of going to heaven doing those things than teaching people that you have to eat french fries with a fork if you want to get to heaven. The ntcc leadership is much worse than the Pharisee's when you take a close look at the bunch. The Pharisees had nothing on Olson or Kekel.
They always used the term, They fell out or washed out. Jesus only lost one of twelve disciples and Judas didn't 'fall out' or 'wash out'. The rest of the twelve lived for quite some time before they were persecuted for their faith. When someone leaves the ntcc, they 'got crossed up with God'. It's too bad that the gospel being preached and the leadership examples of the current regime are not strong enough to keep people in. Maybe if they lived what they preached, people would hang around a little longer.
Mike said:
"I'm also wondering if strict programs like this breed sexual misconduct. I only ask this because it seems to be a motif of cults to be neck deep in this sort of thing."
DNA said:
They absolutely do. If you look at the Amish and many other controlling and manipulative cults and their leaders you will find that the more strict they are and the more rules they have, the more sexual misconduct is bred. It also starts at the top. If you look at Davis, you'll see that he is the poster child for sexual impropriety. It has followed him around from the inception of the ntcc until he died. Do you really think that Olson is pure as the wind driven snow? Olson and Ashmore were involved in quite a few coverups. Olson was the one who would ask you to leave. Olson asked Christina to leave when she reported what Fontenot did to her daughter. Olson also asked Ken to find another Bible believing church, when Ken couldn't be shaken out by Ashmore.
Ashmore was used in the same capacity. To cover up the sins of Davis, he called out Lisa Norton calling her a whore and a slut, because they wanted to protect Johnny Jordan who raped her. Why did they want to protect Johnny? Because Davis was molesting Johnny's underage wife who just happened to be the sister of Lisa Norton. Ashmore was the spiritual assassin that was used to get rid of Lisa. Ashmore was later called upon when feel good Phil Kinson was caught retrieving his wallet from a whorehouse. Roland Moreno reported Kinson and his reward was that they sent Ashmore to blast him. Another spiritual assassination by Ashmore but this time the pieces of Roland's life, (which happen to be his wife, child and unborn child) can not be put back together because Roland allegedly killed his family and then himself.
And now we are all supposed to rejoice that Ashmore has left the ntcc, and receive him as a brother? There is a trail of carnage that has been left behind by Ashmore and Olson, and if you don't think they are just as guilty as Davis, Kekel or anyone else, you need to take a closer look.
Anonymous said:
"Really my question is, if this org falls apart do the higher ups walk away with millions?"
DNA said:
That's really what they are all in it for. If they were to liquidate, all of their assets are supposed to be sold and all of the profits would be handed over to another non profit just like them. But these non profits have very little oversight by the government.
Davis would always do everything in cash with no receipts or with very little paperwork as possible so there would be no paper trail. The ntcc is not likely to dissolve unless the vast majority of them were to leave. The ntcc was built on cheap labor and has very little if any debt. Most of the real estate that they own can be flipped for a profit and baring a total mass exodus, the current regime can live out their days high on the hog just on zeroed out escrows and real estate profits if they had to.
Too many people are so brainwashed that you couldn't get them to think for themselves if they seen all the corruption we've been talking about with their own eyes. It's pathetic, but many of us were the same. We believed the same lies and drank the same Koolaid.
Anonymous said...
"I'm still in the church. Everything is falling apart. How do I escape?"
DNA said:
One foot in front of the other. Walk, run or crawl away. That's the easy answer, but sometimes it's not that easy. If you are broke which many of you are, it's hard to just leave. If you are a woman without a job or a car and your husband wants to leave, you need to do what's best for yourself, and your kids if you have them. Get a job and save your own money. Contact people from your past if there are any realationships that haven't been completely severed by the ntcc. See if you can get any help from family or friends. Open a bank account and save every dime you can until you get enough money to break away from them.
You are better off without them. I'd be willing to live on food stamps and Government handouts until I got on my feet, as opposed to giving my tithe and offerings to a bunch of perverted money grubbing whoremongers and lying hypocrites. The longer you stay, the harder it is to break away. Stop giving your money to the ntcc. If you are a minister and have a church, keep your tithe and stop sending it to them. God would rather have you use it to obtain your freedom from a bunch of manipulative hypocrites than to give it all to them so they can spend it on buying new cars and upgrading their mansions. Pretend like you are in a prison in a foreign country and escape, worry about the rest after you get away. If you believe in God, keep your faith and trust Him to help you do the right thing. The right thing is not to continue contributing to people like Kekel, who are using you to get rich.
Anonymous said...
"I am a current minister. Attending the Graham church here in Washington right NOW. I'm fed up and ready to leave.
I'm planning on joining rev Ashmores church in the very near future."
DNA said:
We would ask you to rethink that move. Many people go from one cult to another and it's like jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire.
Ashmore has left the organization and has his own congregation in the San Diego area, but leaving the ntcc and going to his church will confuse you even more. If you seen some of his recent commentaries and the contradictions of his own words, it might be a warning to stay away. From what we understand now is that Ashmore and Kekel or the ntcc leadership are participating in a back biting frenzy.
Our opinion is that you would be better off finding other believers who are not as damaged as Ashmore. I read a lot of his new material and he just drones on and on about stuff on a level that is scary. He'll tell you not to trust in the readings of other men but to trust only the bible and then he'll quote others over and over. He uses language that many lawyers would have to pour over for years to fully decipher but in the end he never comes to the point of what he is trying to say.
If you are a complete glutton for punishment, by all means, jump aboard his ship, but when it's all said and done I wouldn't be surprised to see it sink.
Ashmore leaving ntcc is like a rat leaving a sinking ship; he's still a rat.
Anonymous said:
"Pray for me"
DNA said:
We will and we'll also ask all of our readers who pray to pray for this individual. We definitely believe in prayer and we appreciate all the prayers we can get. We believe that there is strength in prayer and we hope that God will guide you in making the right decision, but many times the truth can be seen easily. If I'm in a burning building and the only way out is to jump off of the roof, I'm not going to spend too much time praying about it. I might risk spraining an ankle or braking a foot, but it's better than burning alive. I might ask for a soft landing on the way down, but I'm not going to watch my skin melt.
Many have been looking for an excuse to leave the ntcc. It's a good sign that people are wanting their freedom back. If you are considering leaving the ntcc, but you think that you need to follow someone like Ashmore, be careful. You are grown adults and I'm sure that you are going to make your own decisions. But why would you leave the bondage and legalism of the ntcc, to join with someone who helped create it all in the first place.
You are probably at a great cross roads in life. A chance to start fresh. Why would you want to entangle yourselves again in the yolk of bondage that you are being delivered from? Do you think that Ashmore has changed that much? He is still just as secretive as the ntcc. He and his wive both have blogs that you can't comment on. They only allow certain people to see what they say because they know that their doctrine is still going to accomplish the same thing, only instead of Kekel getting rich, all of your tithe money is going to go to him.
I have to wonder if Ashmore is even capable of repentance. Judas sold out Jesus for 30 pieces of silver but couldn't find repentance because the damage of his actions had already been done. Ashmore sold out Jesus when he began to destroy the lives of his saints many years ago, but there have been no apologies that have gone out to Lisa. Remember the young Girl that was run off? The slut as you called her JRA? Remember calling her a whore? She had to spend the next 35 to 40 years of her life asking why would God do this, until she found out that it wasn't God at all. And it's much too late to apologize to Roland Moreno. You won't even come clean about your involvement, less alone repent.
Those of you ntcc'rs that are looking for love in all the wrong places be careful. Pray about this and don't just depend on God to send you a sign but ask God to help you use your brain. Your brains are almost brand new in a box that has not been opened since you joined the ntcc. I'm not saying this to criticize you, but I put my 18 year old brain in a box and closed it up for 13 years and allowed the ntcc to do all my thinking for me just like some of you are doing. God doesn't want you to be a yes man for people like Kekel and Olson and Ashmore.
You want to know what faith is? Believing that God still loves you and can keep you even if you use your brain and make your own decisions. If someone is keeping you from being you, they are not doing you or God any favors. If you are thinking about leaving that is great, but don't go back to the same kooks who caused you to shut off your brain in the first place. I promise you that God didn't make you and put a brain in your head so that someone else could tell you who to date, or who to talk to, or who to divorce, or so you can ask someone else for permission to do things that you should be able to decide on for yourselves.
Is it possible that Ashmore has seen the light? He left after all. Maybe he wants his church to move in the direction of Mom and Pop G.
I never had the experiences that some of you did so I'm hoping for the best.
On a side note if he is a "rat jumping from a sinking ship" then maybe there will be a heard mentality and more will part ways.
I don't like to think that the higher ups would continue to live the high life even if the org fell apart but at least they wouldn't have the power over people, the reverence that they cherish as much as the money.
What could have happened that Ashmore would leave? I know the popular idea is "he's sick of sending money to Graham" but he's been doing that for 40 years so why now?
Someone said something about him only staying because of Mom and Pop so why didn't he leave when they passed?
Either way there has to be a lot of head scratching going on with the mid level leadership/ church pastors as he was always considered part of the upper crust.
Anonymous Said "Ashmore had one of the most revered reputations among the congregations. He was known for healing services, holy ghost services. I heard he was the "walking Bible" from some.
Not sure if Reverend Cox is still in the church but I learned quick that pastors had one of two pictures of pastors. Davis or Ashmore (or both). They were the two people really looked up too."
I wonder if this led to a power struggle. It would suck to be the CEO and have an underling that had a far more powerful and or successful reputation. I've read on this sight Keckle has only been in Graham while Ashmore has run the spectrum of ministries (Missionary, Pastor, Teacher).
Maybe Ashmore was done being a yes man or henchman for someone that he couldn't respect.
Denis got away with stealing money. Stash some money off the books if you can.
Anonymous said:
"Is it possible that Ashmore has seen the light? He left after all. Maybe he wants his church to move in the direction of Mom and Pop G."
DNA said:
On all accounts, Ashmore was a money grubbing hypocrite just like Davis and Kekel. He could have left a long time ago. It's a lot easier to leave after Davis and the Gaylords are no longer around and the Kekels have no use for you. I would have thought more highly of him if he would have withstood Davis to his face. It's easy to disagree and talk smack about somebody after they are dead, but when they were alive Ashmore was just another Yes man. We had been calling on him and others to do what's right even before we found out his involvement with the Morenos, Lisa Norton and Ken. We didn't have the same knowledge we had then, but we were calling for him or someone to stand for the ones who could no longer stand for themselves. The throw aways. The ones that Ashmore and many others had long since kicked to the curb. Now we believe Ashmore has his own agenda and it doesn't include trying to help X-members of the ntcc, unless they give him their tithes and offerings. He's pedaling the gospel just like Davis and Kekel.
Ask not what you can do for the X-ers but what they can give and do for you. I loved Mom and Pop Gaylord and I think overall that they were better people than many that were in it for the money, but it was still a controlling cult and Mom and Pop Gaylord didn't do enough to change things. They stood up to Davis and told people what they thought regardless of what Davis thought but there were still many casualties that could have been helped. Mom and Pop also were die hard believers in man made holiness which seems more of a control mechanism than anything else.
Ashmore bailed on the ntcc for his own reasons and his own benefit. At least the Gaylords were known to show a little bit of kindness and they were loved by many and lived within their means for the most part. Davis was feared and those that claim that they loved him did so out of fear of getting jacked up, like so many that we witnessed over the years. Davis couldn't get enough money or own enough things to ease his conscience.
I've felt different about the Gaylords and the Rodrigues's only because they actually seemed to possess the love of Christ, but realistically you can't ignore the Elephant in the room. How can people stand by and watch as so many people are destroyed? How can you sit back and watch Davis and Kekel make people miserable in the name of the gospel of Christ? It's something I will never understand. Someone recently told me, "The Ashmores are just like the rest of us. They were deceived just like we were". They were nothing more than leaders of a big time cult and they profited and benefited off of your tithe dollars just like Davis and Kekel. They didn't leave because they were concerned about us and others like us, they left because they were no longer welcome. Is it unmerciful to think this way or does wisdom sometimes beg you to take a close look at the motives of these long time ntcc'rs before giving your trust to them. Many of us have been burned once or twice, by the ntcc and others have been burned many times. You can welcome the Ashmores with arms wide open if you want, but don't expect others to be so naive and gullible after what we've been through.
Anonymous said:
"On a side note if he is a "rat jumping from a sinking ship" then maybe there will be a heard mentality and more will part ways."
DNA said:
I think Anonymous meant a 'herd mentality'. I'm not poking fun, it's easy to make a typo, but I understand where Anon is coming from. I hope there is a herd mentality and that others will follow the rats as they abandon ship, and I don't even care if the reason is because Ashmore bailed. It's also your business as to where you go and who you trust with your soul. I can't do anything to prevent you from doing whatever it is that you want to do, but I still feel the need to warn you about Ashmore. Do you think all of the sudden that he changed just because he left the ntcc, and said a few things on his secret blog? He might disagree with the ntcc all of the sudden and he might even admit that he did some things wrong in the past. I'd be very cautious about getting involved in his ministry knowing what has been shared on this blog alone. But if you haven't learned your lesson from Kekel or Davis, and you don't think that we are credible enough to listen to, then go ahead and do what you feel is necessary. Most people that jump from one cult to another do so because they have a hard time thinking for themselves. They need someone to control them. They look for others to replace the abusive jerks that they finally freed themselves from. You will never be free until you are able to run your own life and be the person that God wants you to be and that person is you. As long as you are dependent upon someone else other than God to make decisions for you, you will never be free. Cults take that freedom away from you because they do not want you to be comfortable with yourself and your relationship with God.
Anonymous said:
"I wonder if this led to a power struggle. It would suck to be the CEO and have an underling that had a far more powerful and or successful reputation."
DNA said:
That's a pretty good assumption and I believe that there is a lot to it. We may never know for sure but I believe that has a lot to do with it. I also believe that they all have dirt on each other. If Ashmore starts back biting the ntcc, they will probably do the same. Kekel holds the keys to the real estate empire so unless people are so disgruntled with his lack of leadership, lack of godliness, lack of love or they just realize that he is an all around dirt bag and decide to leave as if it were a mass exodus, he'll probably have enough mindless people to support him for many years to come. Especially if they continue to relinquish their man made holiness standards.
What's up with that anyway? Have any of you examined why Ashmore and Kekel are now ditching the holiness doctrine that they have claimed to follow for so many years? Who changed their mind about 'holiness' anyway, God or them? These people are crazy. I'd stay as far away from them as I possibly could, and I would warn you to flee from their camp, and take a friend or two with you on your way out. These people are certifiable nut cases.
Anonymous said...
"Denis got away with stealing money. Stash some money off the books if you can."
DNA said:
Denis was a thief just like Davis. I'm sure he justified his embezzlement of the ntcc funds just like Davis would to the IRS if ever confronted with it. The Kekels aren't quite as careful as Davis was.
If I were a Pastor of a church and I were planning on taking my congregation with me when I left, I would start setting aside a little each week for a building that is not in ntcc's name. If the congregation could afford to move, I would move them before the ntcc ever found out.
Didn't Davis have a child/son that left the church?
Not sure but if that's the case that would speak volumes
Mike
There was a guy named Carl Sensabaugh who was said to be adopted by Davis. We heard this from someone years ago but could not verify it. Carl Sensabaugh was being groomed for leadership and his name can be found on some of the original ntcc documents. Brother Ken recently told us that he heard the same thing, that Sensabaugh was Davis' adopted son. It's all kept under a shroud of Mystery as was Tanya's Filipino, heritage. Davis adopted Tanya supposedly while in the Philippines but was very tight lipped about the adoption. People aren't stupid and they could see the oriental features, so under pressure I'm sure Davis had to say something to someone. I heard about Tanya from Cyrus, but other ministers had lock jaw when it came to speaking of her heritage. Secrets. smh
Rev.Ashmore hasn't changed in the money department because he still heavily preaches tithe and supporting preachers. I thought it would be a good idea to join him since he was breaking off from the bad "seed". He was more concerned about me paying tithe then concerned about me as an individual. It shocked me he didn't mention money until I spoke of joining him in what I thought was the work of God. At this time I don't know what to think of him because he doesn't seem to have changed in fact he seems to have gotten worse.
Anonymous said...
Rev.Ashmore hasn't changed in the money department because he still heavily preaches tithe and supporting preachers.
DNA said...
Not surprising at all. Ashmore of late has lived a pretty nice lifestyle. He had a big pink mansion in Graham that he moved into when Kekel upgraded to live next to king Davis. I haven't seen the Ashmore's house in the San Diego area, but if anyone would like to snap a picture of it and send it to us, we'll include it in our blog post about Ashmore. Because that's what we do. We expose money grubbing hypocrites for what they are so everyone can see their ways. I wonder if anyone is brave enough to knock on his door and than back up far enough to get Ashmore at the door and the rest of his house in the same photograph. I would like to see the expression on Ashmores face. It probably wouldn't be an expression of love. It most likely would be an expression of hate like you would find on Davises face if you were to do the same to him.
I doubt if Ashmore is going to cut back on his lifestyle to help anyone who is suffering in this world. If Ashmore does anything, he'll continue pumping people for tithes and offerings. Next time the church invites you out to some kind of dinner or BBQ to show off Ashmore's house, you should bring a few homeless people from the shelter over to his house and see how warm and loving he is towards you and them. Those are the ones that really need God, and Ashmore can share his wisdom that he gets from Charles Spurgeon and D. L.Moody with them as he passes out Walmart gift certificates so they can buy themselves new clothing. Think that will ever happen? Those scriptures have long since been torn out of the bible by these money grubbing hypocrites. They don't care about the poor and they don't care about you.
If you are still mixed up with the ntcc, you need to make a clean break from them. The last place you need to go is to Ashmore's church. That's like going from the Jehovah's Witnesses to the Mormons. Why the need to be controlled? You aren't going to find any more freedom going to Ashmore's church than you would at Ron Denis's church. You might as well stay brainwashed in the ntcc. You want to really get mixed up in the head, hop on over to Ashmore's church, then go visit Denis. Your mind will be so completely mixed up that your head will feel like a cutting board full of chopped and diced vegetables.
Now that the ntcc has done away with their 'holiness' doctrine, maybe they will allow you to go church hopping and check out some of the former ntcc hireling's churches. Ask Kekel if it's okay to go visit the Ashmores and see if you can win them back to God.
The only way you'll ever get freedom from the manipulative and mind controlling puppet masters is if you just leave the organization to include all of it's former ministers and find God for yourselves. You don't need some 6 or 7 figure income preacher to tell you how to get close to God. You'd do much better with a bible, a concordance and a cup of coffee than you would in the ntcc. You don't need someone wearing a white shirt, wing tips, and a Swedish Knit Suit with a paisley tie to tell you how to make it into the kingdom of heaven. Do you think Jesus went around in the best robe, riding on the most expensive camels and collecting money for his next upgrade to his mansion while he was on this earth? No, of coarse not, He was a servant of all and if He was to come down to earth right now, He wouldn't even be allowed in an ntcc service.
They say that they love Jesus and worship him but they treat the people made in his Father's image like slaves while they care only about the money. How can you love Jesus whom you haven't seen when you have no love for the Brethren whom you have seen every day? I know people that have shown more decency to the brethren in the ntcc, than the leaders of the organization, and they don't even claim to be Christians. What you have in the ntcc is a bunch of Pharisees and Saducees. Liars, thieves and hypocrites. They preach for your money and you support them. They will continue this pattern of reckless and in-genuine behavior until you stop supporting them.
NTCC has abandoned "Holiness" doctrine?
How could that happen without confusing the crap out of everyone that's spent more than a year in that church?
How did they transition away or was it just done away with immediately?
That blows my mind!
I honestly don't understand how they are getting away with this?
Doing everything in cash still leaves a trail in that there is no trail and things look even more suspicious. Buying million dollar homes, private education, fancy cars. Things always come out.
Has the IRS ever looked into them?
DJ
D / A
I never got the impression in the 90's that they were Cat/Dog/Pet haters. Was that mainly at the bible college?
I met Reverend Davis twice while at Ft. Campbell. Both times I was impressed with his charisma. Were there times where he was just a nice person? Did he mellow over the years?
Reverend Ashmore seemed like a fantastic preacher but it was only during a revival that I saw him in Nashville. He seemed nice enough.
I don't mean to seem like I don't believe what's being said here but I didn't have these same experiences.
I left the church because my wife became depressed and I went to another post where there was no church and just kind of fell out. By the time I started to look at the few years I was in I started wondering about everything.
I still have guilty feelings about leaving. I had a pastor that was pretty good to me and preached very positively.
Only after I started doing searches online did I find sites like this with all the back stories. I could start to see the control, the anti social behavior, and so on.
Where do we go from here? Is there a "true church" after all these centuries of compromise, misinterpretation, cults and so on?
I actually want to believe but I can't. I don't feel the bible is true anymore.
Sorry for rambling. I better get back to work.
Good day all
Anonymous said...
NTCC has abandoned "Holiness" doctrine?
DNA said...
Kekel never cared much for the Holiness doctrine. He actually threw Davis under the bus when he was confronted on the Jeff's blog years ago about Grant wearing shorts and playing in organized Sports. Davis had always preached against that sort of thing often referring to the scripture, "Bodily exercise profiteth little". 1 Timothy 4:8 Kekel said that what Davis was preaching was just policy, not bible.
Many of us predicted that it wouldn't be long after Davis died and 'holiness' doctrine would be out the window, but it's been a slow process. Davis also prophesied that the ntcc would not keep holiness after he died, stating that: "Holiness organizations only last about 40 years, 50 years, 30 years or whatever number he would pick; it always seemed to change.
Many of the board members wives used foundation and wrinkle cream when they started turning into old hags and wanted to look younger. There were many accounts of preacher's wives going to the gym in spandex and sweat pants. My wife even seen Verna Davis wear pajama bottoms at the camp ground.
Don't think for a minute that holiness ever applied to the higher ups. It was only a control measure used to indicate who was loyal to the ntcc leadership. My opinion of the ntcc's man made holiness is that most of the people who followed it had the Pharisaical attitude of, "Look at me and my clothes, how holy I am. I'm not like all of the other peons in this world that dress normal. I'm better than anyone else. Meanwhile most of the people who taught this garbage were perverts, pedophiles, adulterers, whore house visiters and child rapists.
DJ said:
Has the IRS ever looked into them?
DNA said:
The IRS is well known for it's lack of concern when it comes to 501c non profit religious organizations. There has been legislation in congress to take a closer look but nothings ever come of it. There are many non profit religious organizations who's leaders get filthy rich while the members struggle to get buy after paying their tithes and giving in offerings.
Anonymous said:
"I don't mean to seem like I don't believe what's being said here but I didn't have these same experiences."
DNA said:
So everyone treated you just wonderful? Why would your wife get depressed if everything was so great? You shouldn't feel guilty about leaving a church unless they left you with the impression that leaving them was just like leaving God. Don't follow people, follow God. Did you really fall out? People leave churches for a lot of reasons but that doesn't mean you left God.
I'm not criticizing you, but you might want to ask yourself these questions:
1. Do you have a right to know where your money is going and if you were to ask your wonderful pastor where it all went would he become indignant? In a transparent church you don't have to ask, they give you a print out of where all the money goes, but they don't attach an ultimatum of hell to your eternal soul when you don't pay it.
2. You were married, but were the relationships ever manipulated, or were brothers ever not allowed to talk to sisters in your church? Were they segregated with the women sitting on one side and the men sitting on others? Do you think this is normal?
3. How would your pastor feel if you began missing a church service here or a church service there? Would he continue to welcome you with open arms and consider you to be a brother?
I ask about 1 zillion more questions and we all know the answers. Be honest with yourself, do you think Davis, Kekel, Ashmore and your pastor really cared much for you or were you in a system where you were being exploited for your money and whatever else they could get out of you?
D/A
My wife was sick because of mono for about 2 years. She heard the constant drum beat of sickness is of the devil. It wore her out and she became depressed.
What I'm saying is I was treated kindly by the ministers and brothers in a non church setting.
I get the whole guilt trip thing they put on all of us if we missed church. That was something that always got under my skin.
Thank you for responding to my post. You seem dedicated to helping those of us who are still in the wilderness of confusion.
God bless
To the preacher thinking about leaving and joining ashmore could you give us updates?
I'd like to know if you're able to leave and if so what you're going to do.
Thanks
Has Ashmore taken ministers with him? Is this similar to the Denis break?
Is Ashmore breaking and establishing holiness church verses NTCC which has compromised their holiness standards?
Would appreciate any info.
Davis was alive during the time Kekel was changing everything. How did that happen?
His Ain't misbehaving blog came out while Davis was the Chairman of the board.
Did Davis up and retire at the end?
I heard something about him moving to Arizona but that might be Grants home now I don't know.
I have officially left NTCC.
I am currently on my way to San Diego California to join
Rev Ashmore's Grace filled Jesus centered ministry.
" Jesus revival ministries "
The first order of business when I get down there is the get Rev ashmore saved. Lol.
"Aint Misbehavin"
That was a great blog post that got a whole lot of people angry. People that had not let their children in any sports or encouraged them not to attend a real college. MY GOODNESS HOW DID THAT HAPPEN!!!
How he got away with that is beyond me in terms of pastors sticking around who had children that were deprived of a childhood.
X PREACHER
Regarding CO Sensabaugh, he was only like a son, knew RW since a teen. Preached in the Philipines with Cl Barnes, but COSensabaugh split from RW taking Carondolet Church preaching "Moses is dead, (RW) let us move on" when 3 women at Carondelet accused RW of you-know-what... Pop Gaylord sided w RW and the rest is history... RW fled town for awhile, but returned to 2170Forest with a few of us students to start over fresh... fresh indoctrination... And intense mind control disguised as service to God.
Can I ask what caused you to leave Brother D?
How did 3 accusers get brushed aside?
I'm just blown away by this blog.
I can see why a wake of xer's are out there. I once said RW was today's Moses. I was such a moron.
Why did I leave? I discovered that God was bigger than NTCC. I had been lied to by the leadership. They threw me under the bus, so I rolled to the curb, dusted myself off, and the bottoms of my shoes, and found Jesus on the sidewalk. So the 2 of us walked on.
BTW, I am not on here as anonymous, I don't fear them. Do you? Many of us from the 70's ntcc experience still have our right minds and Jesus, despite their tired tirades against us. Oh yes, and we're not broke nor cursed by God as they wish.
Is this item closed for blogging?
No, This item is not closed for blogging. Some comments just don't make the cut.
Speaking of Davis, where is he buried?
I never even thought about that... Where is he buried?
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