"The Swedish word smörgåsbord consists of the words smörgås (open-faced sandwich) and bord (table). Smörgås in turn consists of the words smör (butter) and gås (goose). Gås literally means goose, but later referred to the small pieces of butter that formed and floated to the surface of cream while it was churned.[3] These pieces reminded the old Swedish peasants of fat geese swimming to the surface. The small butter pieces were just the right size to be placed and flattened out on bread, so smörgås came to mean buttered bread.
...guests can help themselves from a range of dishes laid out for their choice. ... In a restaurant, the term refers to a buffet-style table laid out with many small dishes from which, for a fixed amount of money, one is allowed to choose as many as one wishes."
Well, recently an anonymous commentator on Jeff's blog noted this ntcc trend: "A minister and his family have a teenage daughter that’s about to graduate or shortly after she graduate’s High School; gawd calls this family back to Graham. Within 6 months the daughter is married off to a minister riding the bench at Graham 10 years older than her and life continues in NTCC." Anonymous comment from "Daddy, Can I Invite A Girl Out To Play"
We note the similarity of the borg practice to the Swedish meal custom called Smorgasbord:
In like fashion we see the ntcc forcing families back to Washington to lay out a feast of open-faced young girls ready to be goosed and ogled by desperate ministers who have been living a forced life of celibacy due to ntcc rules prohibiting normal dating. These fellows have lowered their standards to where they now think it is normal or okay, or worse, acceptable or desirable to want to hook up with a young teen, a minor, far younger than they are. This is what so-called 'sinners' call jail-bait, in reference to the illegal nature of the relationship. But in ntcc it is full-speed-ahead. These things ought not to be so. If the brothers would have freedom to choose whomever they want, in or out of ntcc, they would not be lusting after barely pubescent girlies. It just isn't normal. And in America it is illegal. But in ntcc, the drool is flowing over these young girls, the cream of the crop, while the ministers prepare to flatten them into a life of servitude to the borg's rules.
Yes, for the mere price of asking the 'pastor's' permission, and running the gauntlet of fellowship-hall humiliation, these 'guests', the ministers, can 'help themselves ...to a buffet-style table laid out with many small [young] 'dishes'..." smorgasbord aka smorgasborg!
Seriously, folks, if you plan on being a minister of holiness, you should not be lusting after little girls. If you are a minister, you should not need someone else's permission to talk to a woman. And if you are a minister, you should have enough sense to recognize that these young girls are still children, not dating material. They are souls to be guarded, not exploited!
Repulsive? Disturbing? Inciting? It is the ntcc that creates, nurtures, and approves of this twisted environment. The board members' families lead the way in these smorgasborg lopsided relationships. ntcc is a very unhealthy environment. The Word says to let all things be done decently and in order. These relationships are indecent and disorderly.
14 comments:
This subject has been one of much discussion and people have different feelings about it. How young is too young? Is child molestation a stretch? Regardless of where a person stands on this issue, most people with a lick of common sense will agree that it's abnormal to put your mid-teen daughter on the auction block at the local meat market.
My view of the ntcc is that they are a cesspool of sexual deviance and impropriety. They foster an environment where people are easily tempted into adultery, fornication, homosexuality and many other sins of a sexual nature. Instead of asking what is the youngest possible age that we can legally give our children into ntcc style relationships with grown adults sometimes more than ten years their senior, we should be asking what is the responsible age for a child to make that decision on her/his own? What's wrong with letting a child have a normal childhood?
We have been very outspoken about this topic. Given their proclivity in the ntcc for their marriages to end in adultery and divorce, it is easy to see the flaw in their system. Maybe if the young girls and boys had a chance to mature a little bit they would make more responsible decisions regarding their future and choose the right one to spend their future with.
Fifteen might be legal but where do you draw the line? They are getting warmed up and prepared at 13 and 14 so they can get married at 15 and 16. This is just wrong no matter how you choose to look at it. This environment that is cultivated in the ntcc will only nurture more tragic stories than it will happy endings.
Don and Ange
"Brethren, the organaization IS pastor Davis."
--Joe Olson
Old Joe hit the nail on the head there. I posted this recently on Jeff's blog:
"If one beholds and considers NTCC as an entity, in all of its bizarre manifestation, he merely sees blueprint of the twisted soul of its founder. The organization is weird because its founder and inspirer is weird. We all thought there was something wrong with him, but we suppressed our own good judgment as "lies of the devil." They weren't. There is something wrong with the guy, and we were right all along. If you're still trapped, realizing that is one of the first things you can do to extricate yourself--have confidence in your own ability to spot a fake, and don't let false guilt prevent you from acknowledging the obvious when it's right in front of you."
With regard to sexual dysfunctionality in NTCC, once again it's a case of RW's nature shining through. He's a bag of sexual complexes, and has imposed them on his followers. The overemphasis on sexual sin is revealing, and indicates that this is an area in which he himself had struggled (and apparently acquiesced).
Regarding RWDs sexual deviance, it would be interesting to find out exactly what happened with the woman who recently came forward about an encounter with him as well as those that forced his departure from St. Louis that Durek may know about.
Vic shared a few things, starting with this quote by joe olson:
"Brethren, the organaization IS pastor Davis."
--Joe Olson
Vic continued...
"With regard to sexual dysfunctionality in NTCC, once again it's a case of RW's nature shining through. He's a bag of sexual complexes, and has imposed them on his followers. The overemphasis on sexual sin is revealing, and indicates that this is an area in which he himself had struggled (and apparently acquiesced)."
This topic was touched on over on factnet. A poster called "seerofthings" stated:
"The night in 1974 I arrived
There was a big-blow up in Carondelet Church. 3 women accused [r w davis] of adultery. We started church on Forest Avenue. [rw davis] left town under advice of his peers. He told us he should have not. He went down the (seats) person-by-person asking- one night, "Would God send you to a place where an adulteter was?"
Multiple testimonies from folks who knew davis before he stared ntcc back-up the claims that r w davis is an adulterer. Several names were shared by "leftin1991", Les Rinehart on this factnet thread entitled "Origins of ntcc -
Church History Lesson"
Here is part of the comment by this former ntcc minister:
"Welcome! Do please educate us further concerning your experiences in the 'legendary' Carondelet Church, thanks! I am sure they will dovetail with the things I have been told by pastors in the holiness movement I am sure you would know, such as Bros. Harry Greaves (Florissant Mo), Bobby Newton (Pacific Mo), L. L. Collins (Hamilton Oh), Kenneth & Vera Brand (Lorain Ohio, formerly East Alton Ill.), David Miller (Cincinnati), and Sister Dorothy Barnes (Neosho Mo), as well as Carl Sensabaugh, who pastors a Charismatic Church south of St. Louis."
Vic Johanson also participated in this factnet thread, citing rdub's quickness to discard others; meanwhile the poster, "seerofthings" shared "RW DAvis often quipped how that no one ever tried much to "restore" him, biblically."
Don and Ange say,
How ironic that davis complained about not being "restored"! Yet davis and kekel will run someone off for perceived faults that they have imagined such as kekel's recent provocative accusation where kekel physically got in Debbie Reed's face and demanded "What are you looking at?"
Debbie Reed stated that she was not looking at kekel.
But we are. We are looking hard at kekel and davis. We do not see Christ there! What we do see; we do not like!
When we look at davis and kekel we see men who are filled with their own sins and have elevated themselves while simultaneously condemning others for lesser matters. We see men who have used others to get ahead financially while leaving a wake of spiritual destruction and devastation behind them. In davis, kekel, and other ntcc board members we see crooks, adulterers, and liars who strain at gnats and swallow camels. These modern day Pharisees, scribes, and hypocrites establish queer rules like forced celibacy, vasectomies, and controlled dating that are heavy burdens on the Christians stuck in their borg.
As a result an unhealthy environment of sexual impropriety pervades the ntcc. One would do well to leave the borg or never become involved in a 'church' that thinks it needs to dictate who can marry whom; or that you can not have children.
Yes, one would do well to leave or never become involved in a 'church' that sanctions older men ogling, groping, 'dating', and making out with young teenage girls.
Even 'sinners' know how wrong that is! Get real folks. Find a church where the bible is preached and where the 'leaders' actually live what they preach. That will get or keep you out of ntcc!
Don and Ange
Anonymous said,
"Regarding RWDs sexual deviance, it would be interesting to find out exactly what happened with the woman who recently came forward about an encounter with him as well as those that forced his departure from St. Louis that Durek may know about."
Don and Ange say,
If you are referring to the account on this blog, we too would like the victim to come forward, at least in e-mail, to discuss this incident.
As for Darwin Durek, he is free to speak for himself.
Naturally others have knowledge of davis' actions. Each person has individual reasons for the silence.
Too bad they did not know then what davis would become or how many souls would be hurt by him!
There is a story about one woman stopped a pregnant lady from committing suicide. The first woman thought it was a great victory. The pregnant woman survived to become the mother of Saddam Hussein.
In like manner, mercy was once extended to r w davis. But look at what he became and how many suffered on account of him! If only they had known back then what we know today...
Don and Ange
I think "seerofthings" was Darwin Durek and it would be great if he could post some of those old messages or material that point back to NTCC in that time. You guys have mentioned a conference that happened in Myrtle Beach that had a decision on adultery or homosexuality. Later on that general board decision is repealed. Does anyone have any notes or any content that they could scan in from that time like Greg has done for his blog with the bylaws and Bible College handbooks?
Anonymous said:
"I think "seerofthings" was Darwin Durek and it would be great if he could post some of those old messages or material that point back to NTCC in that time."
Don and Ange said:
Not sure if DD was seerofthings or not, but we have read those factnet posts. Darwin Durek has a facebook page if you would like to get in touch with him. Also he comes on the blogs as double-D and I'm sure he'd have answers to some of your questions. If you'd like, we will send him a message and see if he has any answers for you.
Don and Ange
Anonymous said:
"You guys have mentioned a conference that happened in Myrtle Beach that had a decision on adultery or homosexuality. Later on that general board decision is repealed."
Don and Ange said:
Not sure if there was ever any documented information on this, just accounts from my memory and others like Vic and Gregory. I think Darwin had already left ntcc at this time.
After the two pastors from Fort Bragg that were involved in homosexuality had been summoned back to St. Louis, where they were waiting for their verdict, there was a Minister's convention held in Myrtle Beach. During this convention there was a vote that took place, specifically on ministers that were involved in the sin of Homosexuality. According to Vic, prior to the vote, rwd got up and did some politicking and the vote was overwhelmingly against allowing these two fallen ministers to stick around.
The adultery vote took place during the first conference after the Nichelle Tieman incident at Colorado Springs. This incident can be found on our blog and is titled the "celibacy policy". During this conference in October of 1990, a vote was taken on if somebody should be told if their spouse was involved in adultery. The desired outcome was a resounding no as surprising as this may be.
You can be assured that r-dub would not have a vote if he didn't know which way that vote would go and if he did not plan on influencing the outcome. Why have a vote? I guess so he can escape the responsibility of making the decision himself. If he wanted people to vote no, than he would preach about King David and the mercy of God, and the spouse would not be told. If he wanted them to vote yes than he would preach about Queen Vashti in the book of Ester, and the spouse would be told. This is just an example of how davis manipulates the crowd to get the desired outcome. I can't remember exactly how he manipulated the crowd to vote on this issue, but you get the picture.
As to the Boards decision to reverse an edict that was voted on by the whole congregation, I have no knowledge of this. Perhaps Gregory or Jeff or Vic can answer that for you. If that took place it would serve as an example of yet more double standards and hypocrisy on display by the ntcc leadership.
Excellent questions anonymous.
Don and Ange
Yes I did post as "seerofthings" on the old FactNet. I arrived in St. Louis one dark Oct/Nov 1974 night. Driving up to Carondelet I was told I could only enter if I was a "Church member" - they were in the midst of the big blow-up meetings. Gaylords were there in their RV. Sensabaugh preached the following Sunday: "Moses is dead... let us move on". So the BS students started meeting at 2170F.
But I was not privy to any inside info at all. The leadership kept it all quiet as possible, "as such". (vintage JHO) ...
We were a small despised group of rag-tag warriors for Jesus, with a leader and a cause that seemed right.
The reversal is apparent in the many remarriages. Some have been banished for adulterous acts. Others have been allowed to stay.
Anonymous brought up a good point. Some adulterers are banished others remain. Ashmore's son Jerry Duran was banished. Yet ashmore follows the adulterer davis. "Hello!" What's that all about? Ashmore refuses to retsore his wife's son, Duran, yet willfully follows davis an adulterer? Why the double-standard, Jim?
Funny, I just preached a sermon, about TWO KINDS OF WISDOM... that from above is without partiality... as James wrote... hmm...
Here's a question- why do they try to hide some people's sins of the past- but love to EXPOSE other's sins??? whats up with dat?
Partiality? Its from BELOW! James 3:17) oh yes- it also has NO HYPOCRISY! oops! I guess that is similar to partiality!
double-D said:
"Here's a question- why do they try to hide some people's sins of the past- but love to EXPOSE other's sins??? whats up with dat?"
Don and Ange said:
The answer is one word: HYPOCRISY
If it helps their cause, they will drag people through the dirt. They don't care who they hurt or how much damage they do to others, it's all in the name of the Lord, according to them. When something happens bad to us it's judgement, when the same things happen to them it's trials and tribulations, the devil fighting. They will break the trust and confidence of people in a heart beat if it defends the actions of their leaders. They will also spew out false accusations if it helps their cause. You will never see rwd come out and admit his involvement in anything unethical, but he has ran people off for less that what he is guilty of. Thats what's up with dat.
Don and Ange
Post a Comment