And Davis separated the girls from the boys. And Davis put the men on the right side of the tabernacle; and the women put he on the left of the tabernacle. And as he looked out over his creation, it pleased him. And the men he called Preachers; and the women he called Preachers' wives, who have no authority.
And Davis said, Let the men ask My permission to talk to the women; and let Us be a Match-Maker to interfere with the natural state of relationships; so that We may cause suffering among the congregation and countless marital problems that will rise up in times of trouble. And it was so.
And RW saw that men and women began to be fruitful and multiply; and Davis said, Let there be a Day School to keep the children out of their parents' hair, (and away from their watchful eyes); and let us appoint a known Cross Dresser as principal over the Day School. And Davis chose Michael Rudy to run that Day School with a rod of iron.
And Davis said: Let the children be spanked by men who aren't the parents of the child; and let it be done in private so the Pervert can have unfettered access to the child's bare bottom without the parents present.
And R-Dub kept a close eye on that Day School, and a closer eye on the girls who were being raised in it, until that Day School became his own personal playground, a place where, allegedly, he could spank and kiss and fondle little girls without their parents finding out about it. (Have you talked to your daughter about this yet?)
And R-dub found out that the sons of men and the daughters of women were multiplying greatly. And R-dub said, "Children hinder the work of the
But the woman was tempted when she read in the Good Book that children are a blessing of the Lord; and she and her hubby had unprotected sex. But R-dub rolled up in his Million Dollar Recreational Vehicle to fellowship with the man and the woman in the cool of the day and found that the man and the woman were clothed; and the woman was wearing a maternity gown made of thrift store materials.
And Davis the Malevolent was angry with the man and said, Why is thy wife wearing a maternity dress? Who told her to get pregnant? And R-dub pronounced with disdain that the men and women should not be surprised if he didn't get excited when a woman tells him that she is pregnant. And the Man said to R-Dub, The woman Thou gavest me quoted a scripture from the Good Book; that Thou preachest from; and she gave me the chance to be the man that I thought God wanted me to be.
And R-dub asked the woman, What hast thou done? Didest thou not hearest Me, when I commanded thee that children hinder the work of the borg?
And the woman said, "The Good Book that Thou preachest from said to be fruitful and multiply and that children are a blessing from the Lord; therefore I had lawful sex with my husband that Thou gavest to me.
And R-dub said to the man, Let the men be snipped that they may be neutered and cease to multiply; for children hinder the work of the Lawd.
And to the Woman R-dub said,"Let the women be unemployed, bereft of friends, broke, barefoot and barren in the Barrio, for all the days of her life." (For all of our Gringo friends who don't hable (speak Spanish) - Barrio is Spanish for a town with an especially high poverty level, aka a ghetto.)
And Davis made a proclamation throughout the land that the Good Book was only to be interpreted by him; and that the false doctrine of children hindering their parents' ministry should be pedaled and spread throughout the land. Let this false doctrine be observed and obeyed by all those in the ministry except for My adopted offspring which shall bring forth a son; who shall have special privileges and be allowed to break any rules that he wishes to break. This doctrine shall be observed; and as a token of My false doctrine, and for the success of My dictatorship, it shall be obeyed just like My false doctrine: "All Christians pay tithes and give in offerings;" or they will be shunned; and their names will be blotted out of the Book of
Ray sings in the Ghetto on YouTube
Of all the experiments that took place in the ntcc, the Day School has turned out to be one of the worst failures in ntcc history; and many children that attended this school were abused physically, emotionally and sexually. One reason for its failure, and the thing that has the most people scratching their heads was Davis' choice for the Principal of the Day School. RWD chose M.T. Rudy; who had been caught, by Davis himself, dressed up as a woman in his car at the Forest Ave. Church parking lot. Davis always made the statement, "I never saw a Homosexual get saved." So why would he put one in charge of the Day School and then send him to Servicemen's Homes to be surrounded by young men who were still developing mentally and physically at 18 and 19 years of age? We have talked to many of the girls that attended the ntcc Day School and found that it was a very strict place; and children were getting spanked all the time. Many of the spankings took place in public as one witness told us how Davis made an example out of Ashmore's son, using a belt to whip the boy twenty times, pausing between blows to have the lad spin around like a top. Apparently the pain alone wasn't enough to satisfy Davis; he had to make a point of humiliating the boy. Julie, Pam, Lisa and many others went to this Day School; which, according to Lisa, was a joke; and the teachers were not educated themselves nor qualified to teach children.
![My NTCC Another NTCC Sadist tries to satiate his lust by beating an unwilling victim with a board while the vic, bruised and crying, lays across his lap [ahem]. Don't call it a spanking. There's something really wrong with this picture!](https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEh6_obn_LCDvhTHR7Ex1Z167JwDUBytQYqdd5bPo4QwTPPqoLtHs6XDy2J8q-UyCdhe2ifV0IPM1kFnia76OesITFa0ZncYpAFBIr4QuX2LMJa6SlEmfOp-_A6eRFtnxQe26AoTM4YhT23n/s1600/spankedgirl.gif "My NTCC Another NTCC Sadist tries to satiate his lust by beating an unwilling victim with a board while the vic, bruised and crying, lays across his lap [ahem]. Don't call it a spanking. There's something really wrong with this picture!") |
| This Disturbing Depiction Represents what Actual Victims of Abuse have been through in the NTCC |
The public and private spankings that took place at the ntcc Day School opened the door for what became a widespread problem in the ntcc. Preachers were encouraged to spank children that did not belong to them; and they did so in private, sometimes in their own bedroom in the absence of any other adults. Who knows what really happened behind closed doors? Allegedly Davis and Kekel both spanked and sexually abused Julie, according to her testimony, in private many times; and this involved more than just one instance. This practice of spanking other peoples' kids gave perverts the perfect opportunity to take things further; it turned into a sick fetish that quickly morphed into groping, fondling and other improprieties. Lisa shared that allegedly Ashmore not only spanked her; Ashmore allegedly pulled Lisa's panties down and spanked her bare bottom and also felt her with his fingers. According to Julie, allegedly Rudy did the same thing. Ralph St. Clair did the same thing.
While in Kansas at the Big Red One, Lee Taylor went to jail for spanking someone else's child. Even though the spanking was the mother's idea, a few days later, when she saw the marks on her child, she called the cops and had Taylor arrested. ntcc bailed him out but never pulled his Minister's license. How could he? Davis was the one that taught him to beat children. Davis told everyone about it from the pulpit during the next conference. But Taylor went on to do the same thing, spanking other peoples' kids at the next place the ntcc sent him - Ft. Bragg, in Fayetteville, North Carolina. Taylor even showed off the board he used; a long wooden paddle that had holes drilled in it "So it would leave better marks." Lee Taylor boasted to the worker / minister there.
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| Do you Believe Using a Paddle Like this on a Child's Buttocks is Abuse? What Would Happen if Someone Hit an Adult With Such a Paddle? |
This whole thing blew up when Davis was molesting sixteen year old Pam (Norton) Jordan. I'm not sure if Johnny Jordan did so to get even with Davis for molesting his wife Pam, or if Johnny is just an insatiable deviant, but he raped his wife Pam's little sister Lisa and got her pregnant. I did a time check and asked Darwin D. about when the Day School closed; and the math had the Day School closing right about the same time that Lisa Norton and Lori Kelley were kicked out of the ntcc by Ashmore at Davis' request; and Johnny Jordan was given money by Davis to move Johnny and Pam to Washington; and Davis also convinced Barbaric Barbara Norton to abandon her daughter, pregnant-by-rape Lisa; who was left to fend for herself along with her special needs brother Terry.
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| A Picture of Healthy Children that Should be Allowed to Grow Up Loved and Cared For by their Parents in a Christian Environment |
It was around this time that Davis started really pushing his "Children hinder the work of God Doctrine" and ntcc preachers started getting neutered. Some got the vasectomy procedure reversed years later - after the Kekels' son Grant was born. They finally realized that they had been duped by Davis the Deceiver. If the Kekels could have a kid, why couldn't they? So a couple of lucky guys got the vasectomy procedure reversed. But that doesn't always work. One couple, who left ntcc, was able to find joy by taking in foster children. But others still have no children as a result of Davis the Dictator's deceitful doctrine. Meanwhile, back to the Day School Drama and its aftermath: When the Day School closed, Rudy went on to replace the gay preacher that was at the Fort Polk Servicemen's Home, (Perry Broadnax); so Perry could go to Korea and take advantage of young GI's, taking them to the bath house and watching them bathe nude; and later Rudy went on to replace another homosexual Pastor at Fort Bragg named Hummel. Rudy, at the time, was married to Lori Kelley's sister, Cynthia Kelley. And Lori, who is good friends with Lisa Norton, confirmed Lisa's testimony when we talked to both of them on the phone.
The ntcc was built on perversion; and it all started with Davis' adultery; which caused him to be kicked out of a previous church. When he said he left that church for holiness reasons he wanted folks to think it was his holiness that was being offended. But the truth is that the church had holiness standards that would not permit Davis the adulterer to continue to live in sin. So he left and concocted his convoluted version of what happened, using weasel words to deceive folks about what had happened. As if that isn't bad enough on its own, apparently it wasn't enough for insatiable R-dub to carouse around and sleep with married women; but he also had a lust or taste for young girls. There are simply too many witnesses, some from the previous church, who have nothing to gain by sharing their painful stories; they are not all lying. And if you continue to ignore the truth, you are lying to yourself about your 'reverend' Davis who was anything but 'reverend'! From what we've learned from the survivors of these atrocities, most of the child abuse seems to have centered around or sprung up from the Day School and spankings and child abuse. An environment was created there that encouraged one of the most wicked sins that exists and that is to abuse a child physically and sexually.
Like any sin, this practice continued to grow in the shadows of the ntcc environment of pastor worship and secrecy. Victims were silenced, shunned, and scourged. Predators were hidden, promoted and encouraged to continue on a dark path leading souls away from God. Look at Johnny Jordan. Davis hid his sin and moved Jordan to Washington, away from prosecution in Missouri. So Jordan continued in his sin and to this day he is a prisoner in the state of Florida for raping another child. Beloved, these things ought not to be so. Don't you have enough God about you or even common sense or common decency to see these things and do something about it?
I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? - 1Co 6:5 KJV
Take a clue from the Apostle Paul, who admonished the super-spiritual sinning saints of Corinth to clean house.
If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. - 1Co 6:4 KJV
Even 'sinners' know better. Why don't you stop claiming to be so wise, open your eyes and hearts, and get rid of the filth in your ntcc?
We have shared a lot about intimate details of things that took place in which the ntcc leadership outed ministers for homosexuality, while the child molestation, rape and child abuse seemed to be brushed under the carpet. We are not just trying to rub a bunch of X-member's noses in the dirt, but rather we are trying to raise awareness within the ntcc among members and X-members of what people have shared with us and what we experienced. The victims of much of this tragedy have been brave and shared their stories in hope of helping others that have been through what they went through or perhaps they can help future victims that read this blog and steer clear of the ntcc because of what has been shared. I consider these former victims to be innocent because they were abused as children and didn't have the proper upbringing or the tools to cope with cold hearted and deeply seeded perversion. The victims were raised in horrible families and were spanked and scorned by really evil dudes that took what they wanted without any regard for the well being of children. These men were supposed to be their Shepherds and protect them from anything that would harm them spiritually, but they used their positions to viciously violate their purity and they did it for their own gratification and lust.
ReplyDeleteThe predators were often non-repentant but the ones that Davis excommunicated all had one common denominator and that was that they were homosexual. Hummel, Rudy and Broadnax were not given the chance to repent or stay in the organization while Davis, The St. Clairs, Fontenot, Barb Norton, Lee Taylor, Kekel, Ashmore and others were not even considered as sinners for molesting or abusing young children. I was an adult when I was in the Servicemen's home but my upbringing was not the best. I had an inferiority complex and was easily influenced to do things that were against my better judgement. I didn't trust my own judgement and always did what adults told me to do. Being part of a cult and giving tithes and offerings to them was part of it. I was manipulated to the point where I had to repent of the things that Rudy and Hummel did to me and the influence that they had on me. When I became more sure of myself and realized that these men were wrong and their scriptural justification was wrong, I repented of my part in what happened and made things right between myself and God. Broadnax came along and tried to manipulate me in the same manner but I didn't allow him to do it.
I'm saying this because I don't think that they were dealt with by Davis and the executive board appropriately. They were not given any hope and were not allowed to repent or find any type of forgiveness. What they did was not any worse than what Davis did, but Davis never had to acknowledge his own sins. Kekel making out with Tanya at such a young age didn't disturb Davis like it would a normal Father either. What is most disturbing is not their behavior alone but the way it was dealt with by Davis and the leadership of the ntcc. I don't hate gay people, although I hate the position I was put in and I hate what I went through. I think all people can be forgiven and I don't think that a murderer is any more or any less able to find forgiveness than a bank robber. I really hate crimes against children because they are defenseless and they deserve to be protected. It takes a really low person to abuse a child or to use a child for their own lustful gratification.
I know that there are lots of people for some reason that hate it when we cover this subject. There are those in the ntcc that are guilty of this but they have never denied their role in this behavior because there are too many witnesses. There are those in the ntcc that don't believe it ever happened and they would rather live in denial than to entertain the thought of this happening in their beloved organization. There are a lot of sick people out there that would rather blame the victims and take the abusers out of the equation by saying that the victims wanted it or that it was their fault in some way. Children are defenseless against crimes of this nature and just about every child victim we have mentioned grew up in the organization and was part of the ntcc day school and was spanked and groomed so that they would be afraid to talk when the spankings morphed into acts of sexual abuse. Davis led the way in this abuse by not only participating in it, but allowing people like the St. Clairs to abuse their own daughter and pass her around like an object to other board members according to Julie. Many of the preachers in the organization that were guilty of abuse thought that if Davis could get away with it, so could they.
ReplyDeleteThankfully Julie came to the understanding that what she went through as a child and how she was raised was wrong and she spoke out about it and others that knew her and suffered similar tragedies came forward and exposed Davis and other preachers that have been lurking around the organization and molesting young girls. I personally think that it needs to be exposed and I don't understand why people would feel any other way. Why would anyone in their right mind want to brush child molestation and rape under the carpet? Why would they want to blame the victims? Why would they want to ignore the victims? We have been treated like the plague by some folks because we have shared these testimonies on our blog. Many people complained on the blog about never having a voice and not being able to have the freedom to discuss things that were wrong. We are no longer under the control of these power mongering phony hucksters. What happened in the ntcc was nothing less than a series of atrocities that permanently scarred young children for the rest of their lives. They had to relive those experiences in their minds over and over and many were taught to blame themselves. I blame the ntcc leadership present and past. I have no desire what so ever to make excuses for them or to leave this topic alone. I am pretty sure that the protected ministers that are still in the ntcc have not changed their nature and since there have never been any checks or balances in place to protect children, I have no reason to believe that the abuse has ever stopped. The ntcc has never done background checks or held themselves accountable for their criminal actions. They should have all been drug to jail, kicking and screaming.
We are here to draw awareness to what is going on in your ntcc. If you are still in the ntcc, and you see anyone allowing another adult to spank their children in private without the parent being present, you should report it to the police. Sure you will become a demon to them, but take a step back and look at the big picture. How sick and wrong is it for a parent to allow some preacher to take their child into their bedroom, and lock everyone out and take the clothing off that child and spank them? You ntcc'rs are sick if you think that is normal. You need to have your head examined by a shrink if you allow some perverted judgmental preacher spank your children for you away from your watchful eyes. Of course we are the demons for bringing this up. We just wont get over it and we won't stop saying hurtful things about the ntcc leadership. If they conducted themselves like true Christian leaders, we wouldn't have to say anything. They can get away with making rules about who you can see and who you can talk to and who you can't be around and what you can and can not say to 'unbelievers', they can convince you not to visit your relatives and to isolate yourselves from all your past friends and family, they can influence you to do or say just about anything they want and jack you up publicly if you rub them the wrong way, but God forbid if you listen to anything we have to say. All of the victims of ntcc abuse are just bitter and hate God, according to the abusers.
ReplyDeleteI wish you all could wake up and listen to yourselves. Those of you in the X-er community that have accepted this kind of behavior and don't feel we should go public with it because it's a 'private matter', should find a way to get some oxygen to your brain and start thinking for yourselves. Child abuse is not a 'private matter'. It's a crime and when you ignore it, it spreads to others. We are not here to find fault as much as we are here to raise awareness. You ntcc'rs believe in telling it like it is, and calling sin out. I remember ntcc ministers preaching that God couldn't bless because there was sin in the camp. Well guess what? Why is it that the ntcc's graduating classes are shrinking to a mere fraction of what they were previously? Maybe it's not the sin, but it's the awareness of pedophiles that are destroying your children. Maybe now that people know what is happening and not doing anything to protect their children from predators, people are having a hard time believing that God is primary focus in the ntcc. Maybe because awareness has arisen to the riches that people like Kekel and Davis have amassed and the double standards they practice are no longer hidden, people have lost their faith. Who knows? Don't blame us, we are just passing along information. If you want to get mad at someone, try confronting the perpetrators of the child abuse. Get in Kekel's face and ask him point blank what his involvement with Julie is. We heard that he is pretty touchy about that subject. Others have shared that Kekel said it was a 'personal matter' that should be kept private. Go figure.
D&A,
ReplyDeleteI am behind you 100%. As an Exer that was constantly verbally and one time physically abused (left him after that) I quickly saw the perversion of NTCC leadership. The pastor supported his abuse 100%.
If the leadership tells husbands to do what is necessary to keep their wives in submission, just how far will the leadership go? Well folks, the leadership has gone into the pits of hell according to numerous testimonials.
Yes God does forgive our past BUT when one commits a crime the law of the land does not forgive. These lawbreaking fools must be held accountable!
Anonymous said:
ReplyDeleteI am behind you 100%. As an Exer that was constantly verbally and one time physically abused (left him after that) I quickly saw the perversion of NTCC leadership. The pastor supported his abuse 100%.
DNA said:
We are glad you quickly and decisively acted and we appreciate your support. Can't imagine what it was like to grow up in the ntcc, but some of the things that happened are just unconscionable. A lot of people seem like they have detached themselves from the ntcc in a way that they are untouched or distanced to a point of not acknowledging what happened and unwilling to hold the leadership accountable for what they did. As long as they didn't have to suffer. I understand how important it can be to compartmentalize all this stuff and for some people, their survival depends on them forgetting the past and moving on. Unfortunately this doesn't help the folks that are still suffering abuse at the hands of the predatory and narcissistic leaders. They act like they are above having to answer for the things they have done or it's as if they are above being bothered by their actions. When Davis and St. Clair disappeared from the scene in such a timely fashion the ntcc lost a large portion of their criminal predators. Ashmore who witnessed 40 years worth of abuse and left the organization, pretends to have never been in on any of the ntcc's dirt and claims to have no knowledge of any financial scandals even though he signed or notarized a large percentage of every real estate transaction and served multiple times as treasurer and SECRETary of the organization. Some people get out of the organization after just a year or two and have more info on the ntcc than Ashmore claims to know after 4 decades of board meetings and participation in leadership at it's highest levels in the ntcc. So many people have became buddy-buddy with Ashmore since his departure, yet he has done and said nothing to own up to his part of his own hurtful actions towards others and has shared no specifics other than just calling the ntcc a few names, like the great whore. I'm not sure how someone so closely involved in so many scandals and someone who has hurt so many people can jump ship and all of the sudden become everyone's hero and friend. It just seems like people are complacent and detached to the point that they don't even use common sense when it comes to trusting people. When a person abuses children, who have nobody to protect them and they don't do anything to even attempt to make things right, they shouldn't be trusted. Julie and Lisa have both stated that Ashmore abused them when they were children and there are many accounts of how Ashmore ran people off to cover for other men's sins like Moreno who caught Kinson at a whore house and like Lisa and Lori being run off by Ashmore to protect Davis and Bro. Ken being mistreated and publicly humiliated by Ashmore. Many of the people who acknowledged these things while Ashmore was still in the organization all of the sudden have become friends with him just because he left the ntcc. This presents a double standard just as Ashmore lived by double standards while he was in the ntcc and still does. He knows that he can't confront the people he has harmed and is unwilling to do so because there is too much dirt on him and he's better off remaining silent. He can't sling mud at the ntcc, neither can they sling mud back at him because they know all of his secrets, so all they can do to each other is badmouth one another.
Horrific is the word that comes to mind.
ReplyDeleteHow is it that ashmores son still idolizes the ntcc when he went through that abusive upbringing?
It boggles the mind .
My hope & prayer is that the victims will see justice one day.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"How is it that ashmores son still idolizes the ntcc when he went through that abusive upbringing?
It boggles the mind."
DNA said:
I believe he was a victim of the ntcc just like many of us were, but sadly as the case often is, victims will often make excuses for their abusers and they will defend them and allow the abuse to continue. I communicated with him not to long ago on Facebook and he assumed that I was invoking his name to embarrass his parents. He seems to respect Ashmore as his father which I can't hold against him because I had a Step Father that I respected as my Dad. My Step Father was not a good parent, or a good husband to my mother but at least he contributed some good things and there are good memories to go along with the bad. My point is that many times people choose the lesser of two evils and it's easier to see the good that exists while ignoring the bad, especially when you compare the dad to the step dad.
Ashmore has grandchildren that read our blog and we were told that we ought to consider that before we write certain things. I understand that and our goals couldn't be farther from trying to hurt someone's grand children but we have to weigh the cost of doing nothing to help victims of the ntcc, victims of Ashmore and his new group against relatives that haven't come to grips with what has actually taken place and fail to acknowledge the wrong. I'm not sure that Larry still idolizes the ntcc, which is hard to understand, because he came to their defense so many times while he was on FACTnet but now that his Dad has left the ntcc, he seems to have less of an opinion of them. Our goal is not to hurt people or drag them through the mud or rub their nose in the mistakes that they have made in the past, but we belonged to a cult, plain and simple. Their is no other way to describe the ntcc without watering things down and making excuses for the leadership. For some reason people think that because we have chosen to leave that we should remain quiet while the ntcc continues their destructive patterns of behavior. While they berate people and humiliate them, we are considered demons if we try to expose them for what they are doing. We are actually trying to put an end to what they do by raising enough awareness that people will wake up. It's sad that people choose to slumber and allow the hypocritical actions of a few money hungry church leaders to continue while they focus on how bad we are for trying to stop what they call the work of the Lord. I'm sorry but the Lord isn't going to turn a blind eye to all the suffering the ntcc caused nor is he going to turn a blind eye to the victims of Ashmore. We think it is more important to warn future victims in Ashmore's new church of the potential harm that could come to them if they continue to follow him, than to protect relatives of his that might not understand where we are coming from. Ashmore left the ntcc but that doesn't mean that he changed. He started a church with an ntcc bible school graduate named Mathew Meinecke of the class of 2012 who calls himself Ashmore's associate pastor and preaches that the end of the world is close by because of the blood moon doctrine that is totally unbiblical, and Ashmore allowed that. No sooner did we point that out and not one video came out of the Ashmore camp since then. It's called damage control. About 50 video's were made from the time Ashmore left the ntcc at a clip of 2 to 3 per week and as soon as we blogged about the blood moon prophesy there hasn't been one more video on Meinecke's You tube account called Jesus Revival Ministries, which showcased Ashmore's preaching and teaching in his 1 1/2 million dollar building he rents out and Meinecke himself teaching and preaching about Blood moons.
I was reading Mathew 18 where Jesus says: "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother." The ntcc is not our brother, but we have confronted them on the blogs. Then Jesus continues: "But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established." We have more than two or three witnesses and we have confronted the ntcc leadership and Ashmore along with these witnesses. And then Jesus says: "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican." That's what we are doing now. We are letting the church, (ntcc) know that the leadership they they hold in such high esteem have been getting away with crimes against people and children for too long. Most people in the ntcc have seen the child abuse in one form or another and they have become complacent to it. Many think that we our out of place for drawing attention to it. Too bad, we're not going to stop.
ReplyDeleteLater on in chapter 18 Jesus speaks about a king that had a servant that owed him ten thousand talents. He commanded the servant and his wife and his children and all that he had to be sold so that payment could be made. The servant fell down and worshiped the king and asked him to have patience and promised that he would pay him all that he owed. So the king had compassion on him and forgave him the debt and the man went and found one of his own fellow servants who owed him one hundred pence. He grabbed the man by his throat and ordered him to make payment and his fellow servant begged him to have mercy but he wouldn't and threw him in prison. Word got back to the King and he confronted the man and said, " O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me: Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?" And the King delivered that man to the tormentors till he should pay all that was due him. So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.
Continued.....
Do any of you in the ntcc see any similarities at all between this parable and how the ntcc treats their so called brethren? They are guilty themselves of things that they will not tolerate from you. They expect God to forgive them and everyone else to forget their failures and sins, but when the church members, BS students and select ministers stumble and fall, Davis, Kekel and Olson are the first ones there to humiliate them in front of hundreds of people. In the ntcc this stuff is blatant. It's hard to ignore but there are many who would rather turn a blind eye than to acknowledge the truth. The truth hurts sometimes. It makes you see things the way they are instead of the way you wish they were or the way that you want to believe they are. Nobody wants to admit they they were taken in a scam and that they were manipulated to live a large portion of their life a certain way for the sole purpose of making someone rich. Nobody wants to admit that they changed their whole lifestyle and order of their life just to accommodate some narcissist's sick motives of greed and power. Nobody wants to admit that they lived under the strict financial conditions set by a cult leader that required them to take from their own families and give to some lazy and worthless church leader whose main desire and goal in life was to run people down. I'm sorry, does this offend anyone? Perhaps I should mind my own business. My life was severely altered by this organization and the leaders who profited from my personal sacrifice of finances and sweat equity. People I influenced to be a part of this group suffered the same way I did and some still blame themselves. The ntcc messes with people's minds and leaves them with no hope. There are still people in the ntcc that I had influenced. Should I not try to right the wrong that I did? Should I not try to get people to see how destructive the ntcc has been in the past in hope that people will find their way out of a cult? Or should we all just walk by the burning building while people are sleeping and not even try to wake them up and save them? I got a good idea, let's just ignore the past and not learn from any of the mistakes we made or any of the thousands of mistakes that others have made and lets just allow history to repeat itself again and again and again. That way we can all be friends and we can all get along with each other. Let's not question anyone's motives or speak of anyone's faults and failures. Let's forgive the predators and the pedophiles and not ever say a word about it again, and let's all just pray about it. Praying is a great place to start, but after you pray, do you really think God wants you to remain silent? Brother D. once said, "There is an old Eli who cannot hear a certain voice like the Samuel's of today are hearing." Back then the sons of Eli were committing fornication with women that lay at the door of the tabernacle. Samuel heard the voice of God and told Eli and so did another man of God which confronted Eli in 1 Sam. 2:29 saying: "Wherefore kick ye at my sacrifice and at mine offering, which I have commanded in my habitation; and honourest thy sons above me, to make yourselves fat with the chiefest of all the offerings of Israel my people?" How dare these men of God confront God's anointed in this manner. Eli was honoring his own sons above God. Sound familiar? They were getting fat off of the chiefest of all the offerings of Isreal. Sound faimiliar?
ReplyDeleteReminds me of the documentary "Going Clear" about Scientology. Many of those people would fight to wash the bathroom stalls with their own tooth brush just to stay in the good grace of the leaders. I don't know how you fall that far into the abyss of control. They are in Hell and are proud of it. They believe they are being persecuted by the XMen and anyone who says no to them.
ReplyDeleteTo some degree their suffering is biblical but the higher ups are laughing all the way to the bank. Talkin' 'Bout you Kekel.
Very clever Blog D/A
I can't say that I ever saw a child spanked by someone other than their own parents. I'm sure that was a practice that the predators would use but I didn't have a pastor that was a homosexual/deviant.
ReplyDeleteIt must have been more prevalent in the Pre Kekel days.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI can't say that I ever saw a child spanked by someone other than their own parents. I'm sure that was a practice that the predators would use but I didn't have a pastor that was a homosexual/deviant.
It must have been more prevalent in the Pre Kekel days.
Davis and St. Clair were not homosexual/deviant and they spanked other people's children. I heard RWD did beat a number of kids, including the Mears son, for not eating a sandwich. Taylor was definitely thrown in jail for child abuse because not only did he spank another person's child but he left bruises. Then he went on to do it at another location and bragged about the wooden paddle he used with holes in it. A lot of people know about this anyway because we have heard it from several different sources. Gesang is a child beater also and beat his son so bad that his mother brought him before the board and pulled down his pants to show the board members the marks that were left from Gesang's beating. I tried to honor the mother's request, but this epidemic has gotten out of control and been ignored for far too long. The truth is the truth and since people want to play it down we are tired of covering for known child abusers. St. Clair was a child abuser and Barbaric Barbara Norton beat her own children and other children and so did Rudy, the only 'homosexual/deviant' on the list. Angela Eury was also a child beater. None of this was done in a corner but much of it happened in public and it wasn't all during the "Pre Kekel" days as Julie shared that she was beaten by both Mike and Tanya Kekel. It's easy to cast doubt anonymously, but very few will take credit for their comments. It wasn't easy for these victims to come forward and share what they went through.
I can respect someone more if they dispute something that is said specifically and they sign their name to it. When people leave drive by comments that deal with generalities with the intent on casting doubt on things that are shared, to me it gives more credibility to the testimony of the abuse victims than it does to those who are in denial of anything happening at all. The ntcc has their pulpit and we all have seen up close and personal what they chose to use it for. This is our pulpit and this is a forum for those who had no voice in the ntcc to speak for themselves, when they were never allowed to say anything in the ntcc. The ntcc pastors used the pulpit to systematically tear people down and to disparage their testimony and their actions publicly. They have run off far more people than they have kept. They have disregarded love and mercy and grace by replacing it with judgment, fear and double standard hypocrisy. They preach one thing and live another. They demand respect while they abuse their authority and use their positions to fill their own filthy lust. They preach man made doctrine with the ultimatum of hell, while they fleece their flocks and break their own rules. I've got a rule of my own and it is just like the rule Davis eventually came out with. Don't tell us any secrets of how the ntcc abused you if you don't want us to share it. We owe this to the people who have spilled their guts. We will no longer cover up the sins of this holier than thou bunch of reprobates. This does not include those of you that have told us about current law suites or court cases related to your testimony of abuse. We still encourage people to take their secrets of abuse to the proper authorities and if they prosecute, our lips will be sealed as we promised. But if you have knowledge of abuse that nothing was ever done about and nobody ever spoke about and it happened years ago, don't tell us because we will not be a party to covering for these abusive hypocrites any more.
Wow! Gesang beat his son? Does Little Gesang's wife know her father-in-law's a child abuser? I wouldn't want my babies near any fella who beat his own son. No wonder Gesang's wife left him! Why didn't the Board do anything when they saw a bruised child? They should go to jail!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteReminds me of the documentary "Going Clear" about Scientology. Many of those people would fight to wash the bathroom stalls with their own tooth brush just to stay in the good grace of the leaders.
DNA said:
And the sad thing is that they probably thought their devotion to cleaning the bathroom stalls with the same toothbrush that they brush their teeth with was an indicator of their dedication to God and meant that they were going to heaven while all others who didn't have that same level of devotion were going to hell. I am glad God is not like that. If he were, we'd be of all men most miserable. The ntcc was a lot like that also. People would jockey into position to have the privilege of shining the preacher's wing tips, or washing his car or mowing the lawn. I was in that category myself. Those women in Graham would vie to be the ones that were privileged to clean McKekel's house. Being in the ntcc was a huge sacrifice and people literally were coerced into giving up their ability to raise a family financially for the purpose of helping McKekel raise his family. It took a lot of tithe payers to support Kekel sending his sinner kid to private school. Tithe wasn't enough. If they knew you had money they would find a way to get you to hand it over so they could use it to live large. Many tithe payers had to give for many years just so one man could live in a mansion and have all the things that the ntcc slaves would never own. People were refused to live up to their potential, or achieve any type of goals by rules that governed so much of their time. You couldn't go to school if it interfered with the church schedule. You couldn't participate in Army training that took you away from the servicemen's home. If you did, it was because you loved the Army more than God. So many people gave up careers in the Army and many others were encouraged not to do things that would further their careers in the army. I often dreamed of becoming special forces but was it was frowned upon by the hypocritical ministers that were running the show at Fort Bragg. Looking back, they all were a bunch of slime balls that didn't want to see success in any form in their church members life. If you weren't called to go to the ntcc brain washing center in Graham, then you were a failure.
I was thinking about the other children , now adults, that were in the day school.
ReplyDeleteDo you think they were abuse but they never told? The mears have a daughter and the ashmores too. I think the espinozas were there and what about the kinson girls.
I recall rw saying that he made tk sit and not to move until he said so and for some reason he left and she was there probably for hours because verna found her asleep but still sitting and rw always used this anecdote to imply that he had trained tk to obey him. We never thought anything about this but looking back what kind of sick individual would train a kid to sit and sit without moving?
I also cannot imagine the mothers being so weak minded to allow their kids be spanked to the point of going around like a top I mean where was nin ashmore, she always gave me the impression that she was an intelligent person but come on! What a twisted and sick reality.
Yesterday I had a Facebook conversation with Larry Duran. He told me that he wasn't whipped by Davis in the Day school. I personally am not sure if I believe him or not. I know that we double checked the story with Lisa and she didn't seem to have any reason to lie, and I'm not willing to discount her testimony just because Larry denied it. I will say that I feel that Larry was a victim in the ntcc of abuse, even though I don't think he'll admit to it. I appreciate the fact that he is willing to talk about things in a way that is not condescending and in a respectful tone. I look back at the FACTnet threads that he participated in and I seen a person that was in complete denial of what went on in the ntcc. He doesn't seem to align himself with the ntcc the way he did in those days and I'm not sure if it's because time has made him more aware or because his Father left the ntcc. Many abuse victims try to protect their abusers and they don't want to admit to anything that would expose the abusers. Case in point, I heard a story told by Reginald Terry and another bible school student at conference, I got the date wrong, but Larry told me it was in 87. The version I heard was that Davis grabbed Larry by the throat and pushed him up against a wall and threatened him. Larry's account was as follows: "When he saw me in the foyer he walked up to me and grabbed my by the shoulders and shook me and said..." Why don't you get genuinely saved 1 time??" pushed me aside and walked away." So let's say this count is completely accurate would anyone that witnessed it think that this is normal behavior by Davis, or abusive behavior? In most places in society the founder of a religious organization would be expected to have a little more self control than that.
ReplyDeleteLarry also shared this: There was a ruckus raised in the foyer of 2170 Forest Ave. by me because my dad who was the principal at the time decided I deserved a spanking and I disagreed and it took John Rodrigues and he both to hold me down to administer said spanking. There was plenty of shouting by all involved. It is more then likely this incident that Lisa is referring too. Any time a child is at the age that he can't be held down and needs to be spanked in public so bad that two adults have to hold him down, it's sends some serious red flags up the pole. That is not normal behavior. Larry grew up in an abusive home, attending an abusive church with abusive leaders and family and I personally think he is in denial. I am sharing this because Larry contacted me and wanted to set the record straight. In closing Larry told me, "Everyones story is their own Don, no one has permission to tell mine except me." So there you have it, Larry's story told by him. I for one find his own story just as troubling than the story Lisa told, because it shows 3 different board members abusing a kid that ended up leaving the ntcc forever. It shows that the disgrace and humiliation of spanking a child in public is more important than handling matters like an adult in private. It shows that Ashmore couldn't control his own house, but was the principal of a school full of children and was entrusted with their care along with his role as a spiritual leader. It shows that the leaders of the organization wanted to make a public spectacle out of this so that other people could live in fear of what might happen to them if they got out of line and this model was used to not only to abuse children physically but was an avenue to sexual deviant behavior among several ntcc leaders that chose to use it that way.
I have also heard from 3 different witnesses that Eddie Mears was abused by Davis and spanked in public. One person said that it was over his refusal to eat a sandwich. Is this the kind of environment that you want to raise your child in? It's definitely not a normal healthy place for kids. I think Davis whipped other people's children more than he whipped his own adopted offspring, or Grant. We didn't share Larry's story to embarrass him or his Dad. His story is one of many that paint a picture that can't be ignored in the ntcc. When someone like Ashmore leaves a group that he represented for 40 years and then calls them the 'Great Whore', it says something about that organization. I'm sure Ashmore is in denial about many of the things he did while he was a part of this bunch, but at least he left. There are no bones about it, I hate child abuse in any form worse than anything that has ever been done by the ntcc. We are not going to sugar coat it or glaze it over. We hope that some of you ntcc'rs will wake up and smell the coffee. Escape for your lives and don't look back, like Lot's wife. Many might think that since Davis and St. Clair are dead that all the perverts are gone, but the foundation has been laid and Kekel is still around and will be for some time. Just because you put make up on a dead body, doesn't make it any less dead. It's still a corpse and the ntcc is still an organization that is full of dead men's bones.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteWow! Gesang beat his son? Does Little Gesang's wife know her father-in-law's a child abuser? I wouldn't want my babies near any fella who beat his own son. No wonder Gesang's wife left him! Why didn't the Board do anything when they saw a bruised child? They should go to jail!
DNA said:
It wasn't that the Board didn't do anything, they hid the abuser and sent the Victim's mother packing. They should have gone to jail. Every one of the members sitting on the board that day were a part of this cover up, and they all should be drug to jail. That's why we keep blogging that the ntcc is a cult. This is what cults do. They support abusers and hide their abuse behind stained glass windows. Of course what we do as bloggers is much more hideous than what these abusers have done. We shouldn't blog about such private matters. We should just go our way and allow these abusers to keep their abuse private. The mother, Gesangs ex-wife who was put away by him, was appalled at the abuse of her son. Not sure if his current wife or daughter in law are aware of the abuse or if it was hidden from them. Adultery is used in this instance to hide an even worse sin, (child abuse). Re marry a woman that will not bring attention to child abuse.
After talking to Larry Duran on Facebook the other day I sent some messages out on Facebook to some former ntcc Day School Attendees asking if they remembered an incident Of Jerry Getting whipped by Davis.
ReplyDeleteTestimony # 1
Yes,i did but i know he received whipping but i can say i saw it i only heard the screams from Jerry..(Larry, used to go by Jerry during his bible school years)
This former Attendee of the ntcc Day School said they didn't see it but only remembered hearing Jerry scream. This witness didn't say if Larry was whipped by Davis or not either, only that she heard Jerry screaming while being whipped.
This next testimony came from a witness that said they were not in school at the same time as Lisa was but remembers this incident regarding Davis beating Eddie Mears:
Testimony 2
Eddie and Terra would bring braunschweiger (sp) sandwiches every day to school. Eddie of course got tired of them so Davis spanked him in front of everyone. Eddie was fighting the discipline so Davis spun him around a few times then made him grab his ankles and spanked him some more. I remember Eddie wouldn't speak to anyone except his sister , ****, and I. This got him in trouble more with Rudy as well. Day school was hell on earth. They would sometimes throw them, (braunschweiger sandwiches), away. I remember Terra crying for being teased about those sandwiches. It was something that came with the free cheese from the government line. We used to get in our house too. I can't pass it in the store without shivers going down my spine. Nothing good is attached to that stuff.
So let's break this testimony down. Here we have one poor person who's family had to live off of Government Cheese and Braunsweiger sandwiches which is a cheep Liverwurst substitute and they got so sick of eating it that they wouldn't eat it at the Day school. And here comes the sick child beating Narcissist Davis who benefits from the tithe of this broke family and decides to make an example of Young Eddie Mears in front of all the other Day school kids. Their parents are so poor from giving all their money to Davis that they have to feed their children sandwiches that taste like two pieces of stale bread smeared with dog crap and Government cheese while kids like Tanya laughed at them.
Boy is the ntcc ever a sick and unhealthy church. We were trying to verify the details of one account of a person getting whipped by Davis and we now have about 4 other stories of abuse that have surfaced. Does the ntcc sound like a healthy environment for your kids to grow up in? I'm not convinced yet if Lisa had all the details of her original story correct. Until someone comes along and says it didn't happen that way, I'm inclined to believe her. If she somehow got the details wrong and mixed it up with some other horrifying story in her past, I can't blame her. She has been through just about as much hell on earth as a person could possibly survive going through. Most people who went through that much abuse and stress would blow their brains out. Julie also went through such unimaginable and horrifying things that it is an absolute miracle that she can even muster up an ounce of sanity. The ntcc Day school was truly a house of horrors that was run by a bunch of sickened freaks. What amazes me the most is that people will make excuses for the ntcc leadership and pretend like none of this ever happened. Those kids lived in absolute fear and were punished and beat in their prison that masqueraded as a religious day school. I wish there was a lawyer out there that would be willing to take the ntcc to court over the way these children were treated in the ntcc day school. I would love to see all of the ntcc real estate liquidated and all of these former abuse victims awarded a multi million dollar settlement. It wouldn't hurt my feelings to see a bunch of these ntcc crooks hauled off to jail either. What a sick bunch of freakish child abusers and predators.
ReplyDeleteWow! This story's getting worse by the hour. I'm sickened by the people that were a part of that sordid past in the ntcc.
ReplyDeleteNo child deserves to have been treated like that. I don't care what the circumstances were that brought two adult men to hold a child like what it was described and then whipping him is just unconscionable.
ask them "then why does the bible say this:
ReplyDeleteMatthew 25:35
For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
Isaiah 58:10
If you pour yourself out for the hungry and satisfy the desire of the afflicted, then shall your light rise in the darkness and your gloom be as the noonday.
James 2:14-18 ESV / 303 helpful votes
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.
Proverbs 28:27
Whoever gives to the poor will not want, but he who hides his eyes will get many a curse.
Luke 3:11 s
And he answered them, “Whoever has two tunics is to share with him who has none, and whoever has food is to do likewise.”
1 John 3:17-18
But if anyone has the world's goods and sees his brother in need, yet closes his heart against him, how does God's love abide in him? Little children, let us not love in word or talk but in deed and in truth.
Proverbs 14:31
Whoever oppresses a poor man insults his Maker, but he who is generous to the needy honors him.
Matthew 25:37-40
Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? And when did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’ And the King will answer them, ‘Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brothers, you did it to me.’
Proverbs 31:20
She opens her hand to the poor and reaches out her hands to the needy.
Proverbs 22:9
Whoever has a bountiful eye will be blessed, for he shares his bread with the poor.
Matthew 14:15-21
Now when it was evening, the disciples came to him and said, “This is a desolate place, and the day is now over; send the crowds away to go into the villages and buy food for themselves.” But Jesus said, “They need not go away; you give them something to eat.” They said to him, “We have only five loaves here and two fish.” And he said, “Bring them here to me.” Then he ordered the crowds to sit down on the grass, and taking the five loaves and the two fish, he looked up to heaven and said a blessing. Then he broke the loaves and gave them to the disciples, and the disciples gave them to the crowds. ...
Proverbs 19:17
Whoever is generous to the poor lends to the Lord, and he will repay him for his deed.
Galatians 6:2
Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
Matthew 25:34-46
Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.’ Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? And when did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? ...
Luke 9:13
ReplyDeleteBut he said to them, “You give them something to eat.” They said, “We have no more than five loaves and two fish—unless we are to go and buy food for all these people.”
Deuteronomy 24:19
“When you reap your harvest in your field and forget a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it. It shall be for the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, that the Lord your God may bless you in all the work of your hands.
Luke 4:18
“The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he has anointed me to proclaim good news to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty those who are oppressed,
Matthew 25:37
Then the righteous will answer him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
Well sir, I'm waiting on a straight answer .....
Bryan David Hill
Oh, so your called to live off our money, dictate over our lives while we "soul win" for more of your down line. How is it that NTCC even considers itself a ministry when they target GI's who have a steady income, health insurance, guaranteed raises and far from home being vulnerable?
ReplyDeleteNo weasel words, just a straight answer please.
Bryan David Hill
I have been reading these accounts and noticed a very important missing point. The entire 12 years I was in I had never heard any preaching against child abuse or verbal abuse or domestic abuse or animal abuse. On the contrary, seen many borderline abuse on all four cases. Back in the day, it just meant you were being the "man of the house" or "standing for God" when you were in fact a tyrant, abuser, jerk and downright dumb ass. The way RW taught the bible in reference to family was conducive to an atmosphere of dictatorship revealing itself in verbal abuse or ridiculous methods of teaching discipline to your children, wife and helpers in the church. Even animal abuse; RW had his own dog put to sleep because it would not listen to him, he did not like the fact it jumped up on people when it was excited to see you. NTCC is an org that is full of pride of their denomination, I have no hopes of them ever humbling themselves and owning up to some serious founded accounts of abuse in which they purposely hid their face or spoke weasel words in an effort to make you, the victim, look stupid and outside of the good counsels of God. This weasel language of theirs in saying one thing and meaning another then blaming you for not understanding, then painting you as crossed with God - has been their mode of operation for many decades now. All you NTCCers, I challenge you to listen carefully and not lay down and play the game when you percieve you are being lied to or your words deflected and twisted in your communication with your leadership. Say what you mean and mean what you say and do not allow them ***holes to play you like that. If you ask a straight question you should get a straight answer, if not, then call them on it. Say, hey, I just asked you a straight question and I expect a straight answer! Listen carefully, if you ask a question such as "why does NTCC not have ministries like feeding the poor or domestic violence shelters for battered women" and they say "that is not our ministry, God has not called us to do that", DO YOU NOT HEAR THEM JUSTIFYING THEMSELVES BY APPEALING TO THE FACT THAT GOD DID NOT CALL THEM TO MINISTER TO THE POOR OR DOWN TRODDEN? Those are weasel words. I dare you to stand up and not be weak and scared -
ReplyDeleteBryan Hill said:
ReplyDelete"Even animal abuse; RW had his own dog put to sleep because it would not listen to him, he did not like the fact it jumped up on people when it was excited to see you."
DNA said:
RW and McKekel both had Dogs whose lives were ended violently. They were German Shepherds named Wendy and Lion and Davis's dog kept jumping the fence to see the other dog so Davis had Gesang take both the dogs and shoot them. What do you know, there is Gesangs name again associated with ntcc dirty work that Davis and Kekel couldn't do themselves. Click here to read full story animal abuse in the ntcc. Gesang has been one of the cruelest individuals in the ntcc if look at his history. He was once dispatched by Davis to go on a witch hunt or "Private Pogram" to find Deb Blumenthal's sister who Davis wanted to ex-communicate from the church. She was staying with Brother Salvador who was the only one willing to take her in off the street after Davis ordered Ester and her husband removed out of the house and threatened that anyone who harbored Deb's sister would be ex-communicated from the church. So who did Davis find to go door to door on this witch hunt from house to house? Two child abusers, Eli Gesang and Lee Taylor (who holds a black belt in Marshall arts). They knocked on Salvador's door and tried to force their way in and search his house but he was able to push the door shut an lock it. Read about it by clicking here: ST. LOUIS, MO 1978; GOD's GRAND PLAN ALREADY GONE AWRY.
Davis also once ordered Ballard to chop the heads off a litter of pit bull puppies. Ballard said he cried the whole time. This is the effect that cult leaders have on their members. They could have easily called the SPCA or local animal shelter to come rescue these dogs if they were too lazy to bring them, but instead of Davis getting his own hands dirty, he wanted to use it as an opportunity to test someone's loyalty. He knew if he could get them to do one dirty job for him that he could get them to do other dirty jobs for him. Read the articles that are written within the links in this comment. You will find Deb's story very educational and you will also find out how early on in the ntcc's first decade of existence Davis was removing anyone he thought was a threat from his organization while people like Eli Gesang were considered pillars of the church.
How can you ntcc'rs read story after story of ntcc abuse and sick behavior and continue to stay in this organization? You think it's all made up? You know it's not, because if you ask about it, you will be considered a devil. Ask Kekel about the dogs and Gesang killing them. Ask him about Gesang's son and the beating he gave him and the board meeting where his X-wife confronted Davis and the rest of the ntcc figure heads who ignored her and marginalized her account of things even though they seen the child's bruises and welts and ended up shunning her and she was forced into an ntcc divorce while Eli was given another wife as a reward for his loyalty and child abusing ways. The ntcc is a sick place and most of you ntcc'rs know it is. You might deny it publicly but deep down you know you can't confront Kekel with stories like this. Kekel doesn't answer to any of you peons in the ntcc. In fact he doesn't think much about you at all and that is why he won't answer for the things he's done. If you confront him about the senseless killing of his dog he you will become the demon and you will be marked for future plowings. Don't believe me? Why is everything so secretive in the ntcc? Kekel is just as guilty as Gesang. If you hire someone to kill another human being the person that hired them usually gets the same or a worse sentence as the actual killer. Kekel and Davis wanted to test the loyalty of their cult members. If a person is willing to kill a dog for you, what else can you coax them into? That is what it's all about. Davis is a child abuser himself and we have many testimonies that confirm this fact. Why would you go to him if your child is being abused. Why would you go to Kekel who also has a documented history of abuse? Why would you go to Olson who has history of ignoring and marginalizing abuse victims? The problem is that you are lying to yourselves. You won't come on this blog and defend your leaders because you know they are guilty. You won't leave your name or take ownership of your comments because you do not want anyone to know it's you. God knows, so what do you have to hide? If you are right with God shout it from the roof tops and stop hiding behind your borg leaders. You know that they are wrong and therefore you are wrong. You lie to yourselves by shifting the blame from your cult leaders to us. Wake up. Snap out of it. Take your life back from them and don't look back.
ReplyDeleteI recall rw boasting that he never spanked his child but one time in her entire life!
ReplyDeleteThe preaching was geared to men being the head of the household and to be the authority in everything because that's what rw taught and that's why it bred abuse on the part of the husbands towards their wives n children.
Make no mistake I met some real jerks in bible school who took away the telephone ( this was before the cellphone days) from their wives and take it to work with him because they thought the wives were using the phone to gossip or to talk too much instead of praying n reading their bible or cleaning the house. Also taking away their library card because they had a fine! Supposedly that's the advice the husband got from rw when he went to him for advice about how to control his wife according to what was shared. This is not to take away from what the topic is about because surely the child abuse described is far greater than taking somebody's privileges.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"This is not to take away from what the topic is about because surely the child abuse described is far greater than taking somebody's privileges."
DNA said:
This is actually equally as important because it is spouse abuse. Any time a man treats his wife as less than a human it creates an atmosphere within that family where abuse is tolerated. A man that will abuse his wife will often abuse a child. It takes a spineless man to treat a woman the way RW told them to treat their wives. I've heard abusive Jerks in the ntcc ministry talk about telling their wives to pack their bags and giving them a dime to call someone who cares to pick them up, and that God would give them a wife that would obey him as he was supposedly obey the Lord. The New Testament Christian churches are filled with arrogant Davis wannabes that treat their families like they are just along for the ride. They would just as soon put their wife in a dog crate then allow them to make any decisions or allow them to think for themselves. They are abusers and this abuse has been condoned and taught to them by their ntcc leaders.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"No child deserves to have been treated like that. I don't care what the circumstances were that brought two adult men to hold a child like what it was described and then whipping him is just unconscionable."
DNA said:
We were all part of this circus at one time. Unfortunately people will make excuses for this and blame themselves saying that they needed that kind of treatment. Anyone who hears about this or sees it from the outside looking in will tell you that it's not normal, it is abuse. There is a difference between sparing the rod and spoiling the child and abusing a child publicly. I don't blame the victims. I know Larry won't admit it but he went through living hell as a child. He will say that he was loved by Davis and Ashmore, but he was abused way beyond the point that is acceptable in the bible or in society. I truly feel bad for him. Some kids that were raised in that day school have much worse issues that they have to deal with than just physical abuse. Sexual abuse is much worse. It scars a child for life and takes away their innocence at such a young age. They have no choice. They become a product of someone else's demented lustful desires and they grow up thinking that this kind of perversion is just part of their life that they will never be free from it. They didn't choose this for themselves, but it was thrust upon them by a pervert and predator that couldn't control their own evil and lustful desires. The ntcc dayschool had multiple victims of sexual abuse to go along with the victims of physical abuse. The ntcc is a cult that allows all kinds of abuse and protects the abusers often rewarding them for their loyalty to the leadership. The ntcc leaders and board members are going to be the first to split hell wide open and if you choose to follow them, you might end up going to the same place they are going.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI recall rw boasting that he never spanked his child but one time in her entire life!
DNA said:
I remember RW saying that also, but then again you have to understand that Davis was a double standard hypocrite. Of course he wasn't going to treat his family the way the ntcc'rs were required to treat their loved ones. Kekel wasn't about to treat Grant like the ntcc loyalists were expected to treat their kids. There are two classes and two standards in the ntcc. The elite, rich, "do as I say, not as I do" hypocrites and the rest of the ministers, bible school students and church members. If you want to know who is privileged in the ntcc, you need not look any further than Graham. All the money is in Graham. If you want to see who has it, look at their mansions and you will quickly see. There is no telling how Davis really treated Tanya. If he'd allow Kekel to grope her when she was not even 15 and he was around 23 there is no telling what was done in secret. We may never know, but Tanya does and God does. We know how Davis treated others. We know how he treated Pam and Julie and other young girls. We know how he spanked children that were not his. We know he DID NOT punish ministers for spanking children and he used scriptures to encourage other people to spank their children. He had disdain for children and often blathered on about how children hinder the work of God. People feared having children so much that they got snipped. Isn't the ntcc a healthy church? If it was so healthy why did Grant go to Catholic School? If ntcc was so healthy and wholesome why do most of the ntcc children escape for their lives as soon as they possibly can? Why do people like Johnson and Olson marry their kids off as soon as possible to insure they stay in the ntcc? Why are ntcc women and children taught to be silent and say very little? Is it really because Davis, Kekel and the General board want them to live pure and holy lives and be paragon's of bible teaching? Is it really because the bible wants them to keep their traps shut least they expose the abusive nature of their husbands and it makes the ntcc look bad? God forbid that the ntcc should ever get any negative publicity. Let's not tolerate anyone who exposes a preacher's infidelity. Let's promote the preachers who visit whore houses and beat his children so bad that they leave marks and bruises all over the child's legs and butt. We'll brush the abuse and the whore mongering adulterer under the carpet but the women and children who speak out against the thousands of counts of abuse, are our true enemies. Let's silence the children and women who have suffered the abuse and harbor the child molesters, perverts, predators, abusers and philanderers to protect the good name of the ntcc while we leave a wake of destroyed lives and abused and tormented souls for someone else to try to piece together. Let's just spiritually shipwreck the ones that are honest and genuinely seeking help. Kill them all and let God sort them out and deal with the aftermath. That is the motto of the ntcc leadership.
You that say we shouldn't talk about this stuff I don't want to hear or read about it. Well I didn't like living it or witnessing it. Believe me that is far worse. People need to realize how evil this place really is. Some victims have been so put down and blame so much they have reach a point they have to pretend it didn't happen or wasn't so bad because they don't have the strength anymore to be put down or blame again. People are afraid of the pain because others give them no hope of healing.
ReplyDeleteHugs,
Julie
That's a very good point Julie, and that's what I'm going to tell people from now on when they criticize and try to insist that we get on with our lives. Just be glad you didn't have to live it. We blog about what you went through, Julie, and others and I know that is not easy. We don't do it to hurt you or anyone else but so many people that have been through the exact same thing now know that they are not alone. The ntcc is dying because the truth is shining a huge light on the organization. People are leaving and the ones that are staying do so against their own knowledge and wisdom. If the ntcc goes down, it's not going to be because of this blog but because of the people that have shared their testimonies on this and other blogs. I want the ntcc to cease to exist because I know if that happens a lot of people will be freed from the bondage of their legalistic ways and folks will be able to heal from the deep wounds inflicted by decades of manipulation. There are many people out there that have suffered and chosen to keep things inside and that's understandable, but while it may serve to help you forget, it doesn't help that future or present victim that does not understand why they are suffering the same things that you have already been through. People that were raised in the ntcc day school or even just in the ntcc have suffered more than a human being should have to in an entire lifetime. When we share what they went through it's obvious that the ntcc is not a godly or healthy place to raise kids. If a potential future ntcc member does a google search of the ntcc, they will find the X-member blogs at the top of the list and they will quickly discover the experiences that we've been through. If we save a person from the suffering that we went through we are doing that person and society a huge favor. If we can eventually wake up enough people who blindly obey the ntcc leadership and force them to see how horrible things are in the ntcc, perhaps they will withdraw their mandatory support for this family owned business and with Kekel's help maybe it will be driven into the ground.
ReplyDeleteThe Prosecuting attorney in Thurston County was appalled by what I told him concern my abuser (spouse) and NTCC. He threw Mike Marshall out of his office when Mike falsely said he was my ex's attorney. He said Marshall tried to bully him. He threatened to arrest Marshall for impersonating an attorney if he didn't leave. Mike left.
ReplyDeleteThe Attorney woke me up after I told him how Marshall condoned abusing animals and how Marshall would brag about shooting any dog that entered his yard. The attorney also was made aware that my ex had been beating my dogs and urinating on them in the bath tub every morning before he went to work. (I didn't know about it till he wrote me a letter admitting to it. I still have the letter.) The Attorney told me that animal abuse is a precursor to child abuse and animal torture is a precursor to murder. Wake up folks!!!
Unfortunately, I couldn't prove the animal abuse took place in Thurston County (Olympia, WA) since he only admitted to it in Pierce County. The Prosecuting Attorney said that he would get more time for animal abuse than he would for spousal abuse.
He also wanted to nail Marshall for animal abuse and torture but it was out of his jurisdiction.
Folks, where did Marshall and my ex get such sick "dominion over animals" abuse and torture standards from? They got it straight from the horses mouth- Davis, your beloved founder.
I do not sign my name because I am a business owner and do not want my name associated with NTCC. From now on though I will go by Freebird.
NTCC is so fortunate that their headquarters isn't in Thurston County WA. Their Prosecuting Attorney was ready and willing to investigate them for child, spousal and child abuse.
ReplyDeleteAlso, American Lake mental health workers had their number. They documented everything I told them that had occurred. NTCC you are sooooo lucky that the statute of limitations has run out.... Freebird
I was only in NTCC one and a half years but that was plenty long enough to make me fear leaving. I feared for my safety due to stories of violence and calamity against those that left.
ReplyDeleteThey never came straight out and said that they would harm me but they would tell tale after tale of violent deaths that occurred to those that left. They cloaked it as God's punishment.
I knew that God wasn't the one punishing those who left so that led me to believe if what they said was true then it only left NTCC exacting calamity on others. However, NTCC was ecstatic that I left. I was left alone.
If anyone fears for their safety getting out or how to support ones self please call a domestic violence hotline. You don't need to be physically abused to use it. They will hook you up with resources so you don't leave and end up on the streets. You can be anonymous. Please leave safely so that you can thrive in Christ.
Great job, Freebird!
ReplyDeleteYou did your part and if everyone in this group would take the actions that you did, they would be broke, fighting lawsuits. I'm pretty sure there'll be some new breakthroughs coming down the pike. I know for a fact that people are leaving and the preaching is no longer worth wasting five services a weak on. I remember the pastor at Bragg used to say, "If you have a roast in the oven, it's going to burn". In other words, he thought so highly of his preaching that he didn't believe anyone would dare get up and leave during his sensational (sic) sermon. He was the same one who would preach at his wife in front of the whole congregation telling her that if she didn't like the way things were that she could pack her bags and he'd give her a dime to call a taxi. Same dude that abused children as the principal of the ntcc Day School.
The ntcc tried to brainwash all those kids and thought they were successful until recently when they started talking. Julie once said that since she had any say in things and her mouth was always shut that her ears worked twice as good. Those parents out there that abused their children and thought that they would stay silent for their whole lives are finding out that their voices are being heard. I'm sure the ntcc couldn't hate it more. Now people are going to be watching for abuse and it's not going to be as easy to get away with. It looks like the law of sowing and reaping is coming around full circle to bite Kekel and his buddies in Graham right in their 4th point of contact. That's your butt Kekel, in case you didn't know.
As far as I know, our kids were spanked by someone other than us on only one occasion. Eric Barden spanked our son while we were attending a conference once. I didn't find out about that until years later, and was more disturbed when it came out that Eric had come from an incestuous family. I heard RW boast about whipping Eddie Mears a number of times. He claimed to have whipped Tanya six times in her life, but said that she claims it was seven. There were also lots of stories about Dorsie whipping other peoples' kids.
ReplyDeleteThe day school closed while we were still at 2170 Forest Ave. That was a good while before Lori was run off--at least a few years, because it happened after I left for Fairbanks in '83.
NTCC was all about oppression, and when people didn't submit, they had no problem with coercion, often physical. Sick controlling losers.
D&A said
ReplyDelete"I'm sure the ntcc couldn't hate it more. Now people are going to be watching for abuse and it's not going to be as easy to get away with. It looks like the law of sowing and reaping is coming around full circle to bite Kekel and his buddies in Graham right in their 4th point of contact. That's your butt Kekel, in case you didn't know"
I couldn't agree more, they must be pissed to high heaven that finally people are talking and there aint a dad gone thing they can do about it. Not one of their controlling measures they impose on their down line applies to us "Freebirds". By the way I love that guys call sign, we are all freebirds for real.
I remember LD Jones saying that "they would have to put me in jail before I quit disciplining my daughter". This was in St Louis back in early 90's when he was pastoring there. there was alot of ranting and raving on how bullheaded he is (and proud of it) and how he would never submit to the world when it came to spanking his child, he was gonna do it even if it meant jail time. At the time I thought it was pretty ballsy to be saying that. He also said he would not miss a church service even if it meant not being there for his family if they were dieing. This was becuase he considereed NTCC the one and only move of God on earth. Me and him went around time and again over stupid things he was saying. He would talk behind my back and then I would confront him face to face and he would start bellowing all this mumbo jumbo that really was downright verbal abuse. Blumenthal was a verbal abuser also. My question is, what was he doing in terms of disciplining his daughter that he was in danger of going to jail? huh? oh what, shut my face is that what I am suppose to do. You couldn't shut me up then and you dang sure can't shut me up now. BRYAN DAVID HILL
ReplyDeleteVic Said:
ReplyDelete"Eric Barden spanked our son while we were attending a conference once."
DNA said:
It's not right that he did that without your consent or that you had to find out about it years later. The ntcc seemed to be a magnet for tortured souls, and since they never did anything to help anyone, their problems became everyone else's problems. I'm not sure if Eric did anything inappropriate besides spanking but it seems like when the culture in the ntcc finds it normal to spank other people's children it puts a lot of kids at risk to what could be extremely perverse. We used to go soul winning at the hospital barracks and get people with severe mental issues to come out to church. They all paid their tithe but I got the feeling we were flirting with disaster. The ntcc has a way of stressing out normal people to the point of mental break down and when you put a person who has already snapped a few times in that situation, it could be dangerous.
Bryan Hill said:
ReplyDelete"Not one of their controlling measures they impose on their down line applies to us "Freebirds". By the way I love that guys call sign, we are all freebirds for real."
DNA said:
Definitely a great call sign, although I think it's a woman who wrote that comment. She was at Marshall's church and witnessed a lot of abusive behavior. What I really like is that she went to the authorities instead of the ntcc leadership who encourages the type of behavior that Marshall used to exhibit and that many of the ntcc pastors still exhibit. The ntcc is full of enablers that wouldn't know Christ if he materialized in front of them. They would rather allow child abuse than to have the name of their sleazy organization defiled by the perverts they create. How much more obvious do things have to get before people acknowledge that the ntcc leadership is not made up of good God fearing people? It's so obvious that the ntcc is just about money and a few religious hucksters getting rich. When a church leader cares more about the reputation of their organization than they do about a molested or abused child, it is time to get rid of that thug or those thugs. What has to happen for you ntcc zombies to wake up from your life long nap? In most cases the abuse has to hit home for them before they will believe us. They can see it with their own eyes and believe a lie, but unless it effects them, sadly, they will continue to ignore the abuse. When they catch someone molesting their own child they might do something like report it to Olson, who will in turn promote the abuser and disparage the parents that reported it. And then the abused family will run away from the ntcc with their tail tucked between their legs and they'll eventually blog about it, but they will still in many cases defend their abusers. So many people who have had their children abused by pastors in the ntcc make excuses for them and find fault with us for judging the ntcc. The ntcc can abuse a family for decades. They can preach at the man for being an abject failure and humiliate the woman for hindering her husbands ministry. They can spank their boy and molest their girl, but the victims parents will often be more distraught at us for "being judgmental" than they will towards the ntcc who destroyed their entire family many times over. The ntcc knows that they control the strings in their huge puppet show and people often end up so severely damaged that they don't even realize who is right and who is wrong.
Bryan Hill said:
ReplyDelete"This was in St Louis back in early 90's when he was pastoring there. there was alot of ranting and raving on how bullheaded he is (and proud of it) and how he would never submit to the world when it came to spanking his child, he was gonna do it even if it meant jail time."
DNA said:
Jones was definitely an abuser. I remembered that he would often brag about the way he disciplined his daughter and rattle off a few proverbs about sparing the rod. By the way there is no scripture that mentions sparing the rod. The rod of correction or the rod are found in proverbs but their usage doesn't mention leaving marks and bruises like Gesang did. There is nowhere in the bible that talks about sparing the rod and spoiling the child, even though the ntcc loved to preach that. Cyrius used to beat his infant and use that line to justify it. They love to regurgitate scriptures that justified the beatings they gave to their children. They are not a chosen generation, they are a bunch of abusers that can't control their own emotions. They think they can ignore their children and deprive them of a proper upbringing that is eventually replaced by severe beatings and punishment. They withhold love because they are incapable of sharing love with anyone. There is very little room for anyone or anything in their impenitent hearts because they have filled their heart with greed and their love for money.
This is an incredibly damning thread. One of the worst I've seen about NTCC. I can only imagine the damage control going on right now as old timers are asking their children about getting spanked viciously by "Pastors".
ReplyDeleteThis is an incredible thread...
Mike
Freebird here,
ReplyDeleteYes I am a woman. I chose Freebird to best describe all of us ex-NTCCERS that have found their voices.
LD Jonesie may have been all pompous about his willingness to go to jail for disciplining his daughter, however he would be the first to cower in the corner in jail and beg his church to bail him out!
My ex was "traumatized" (his words) by his over night stay in a county jail. Marshall demanded that I bail him out. I said no! I informed him that the State of WA and my ex's actions put him in there. Marshall had all the brothers put money together to bail him out. Marshall then had the gonads to tell me I had to pay the brothers back. I told Marshall that he needed to pay the brothers back, I didn't tell them to bail him out!
I knew deep in my heart that physical abuse of children occurred but I never witnessed it. I was by law a mandated reporter and if I would ever seen it, NTCC would no longer exist.
Marshall was very careful about preaching about whipping kids. I now believe it was because he knew I would report it.
He once preached about the time he grabbed his step sons and threw them up against the wall and punched them. He spoke in a boastful way. He then looked at me and changed his tone about how bad it was to do that, how it was wrong, had asked for forgiveness, etc. After service I asked his youngest step son about it since we were buddies. He just looked down and his eyes teared up. From that time forward I knew that child beatings were taught when I wasn't around. I also messed up big time. I thought I had to witness the abuse to report it. I had it clarified at a later time that I had to report any suspicion of abuse. For that mistake I ask for forgiveness of every child that was abused from that point forward.
Remember, it was still very difficult for me to remove myself from NTCC. It was the talk that the Prosecuting Attorney gave me about animal abuse that things finally clicked. At the time I thought Marshall was the problem, I didn't realize that the tree was rotted clear to its very roots.
Freebird
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThis is an incredibly damning thread. One of the worst I've seen about NTCC. I can only imagine the damage control going on right now as old timers are asking their children about getting spanked viciously by "Pastors".
DNA said:
I hope others see it and feel the same way you do. To me it feels like people are really complacent about this kind of thing in the ntcc. It's like a house full of people that you care about burning down and you yell through the windows, "Your house is on fire, escape for your lives!" But they all yell back through the windows, "It's alright. Don't worry about us, we'll be okay. We belong to a cult and our cult leaders have us convinced that we won't really burn, so we are just going to wait for the flames to start lapping at our heals, but thanks for the warning!"
Freebird said:
ReplyDeleteLD Jonesie may have been all pompous about his willingness to go to jail for disciplining his daughter, however he would be the first to cower in the corner in jail and beg his church to bail him out!
DNA said:
You got that right. Jones was not one to suffer wrong and take it like a man. I don't think he'd make it through even a little bit of persecution without breaking down. Jones came to Korea one time when Ramirez was the Pastor and Ramirez put him up in a local Hotel. Jones spent his entire visit complaining about the semen stains on the sheets in the Hotel. I didn't think he was ever going to shut about the subject. He called down to the desk but they told him that he couldn't have any new sheets. I think it's pretty funny actually. Someone telling an ntcc MOG that they couldn't have things their way. When does anyone get to have the final word in an argument with an ntcc preacher? If you add to that the fact that it was a foreign country and there wasn't a thing he could do, it made the whole situation even funnier. Then he came out to the Servicemen's home and was going on and on about the semen stained sheets and the Ramirez's didn't seem to care too much. I think LD wanted them to share in the blame for not checking the place out before they rented it. I'm not sure what went through their mind but they sure didn't seem to show a lot of sympathy or to commiserate with them much. I almost got the feeling that the Rameriz's didn't think there was much that Jones could do to them so they were just waiting for him to cool down, but it didn't seem like that was ever going to happen. Finally, I think they gave Jones some sheets from the servicemen's home just to get him to stop whining about it. When Jones preached that night he must of spent half of his sermon crying about the semen stained sheets. In fact that's all I can remember about Jone's one day visit to Korea which I believe was cut short because of that incident. It seemed odd to me at the time that they would leave so fast. I know it's pretty gross and I'd probably be just as upset, but you expect a certain level of maturity from an ntcc board member and that night it just seemed like Jones was getting ready to burst at the seams.
If a brother were to make a big deal out of something like that in the ntcc, their ntcc pastor would tell them not to lose the victory over it. "Calm down brother, it's not worth losing your salvation over." But when it was a MOG, (Man of Gawd) from the ntcc involved you would think that the devil dropped whatever business he was doing all around the world and physically personified himself to attack the MOG. Any time something outrageous happened to an ntcc preacher, it was always attributed to the devil. The devil this, or the devil that. I wish I had a dime for every time an ntcc preacher accused the devil of making their lives miserable. I'd be richer than Davis and Kekel combined. I think that many times the ntcc brought their own misfortune down upon themselves for acting so super spiritual all of the time. It was all part of their scam to make people think they were super spiritual Men of Gawd. It's like the devil had nothing better to do than to drop everything he was doing around the world and attack the ntcc minister because they were doing such a great work for the organization and for Davis. Surely the devil couldn't have been in all those places at the same time. Or could it possibly be that it just rains on the just and the unjust alike? I believe in forces of evil and good. I believe that there is a devil and a place called hell, but sometimes you have to call them out when they cry wolf. Why would the devil try to fight a MOG that gets away with abusing children? The devil doesn't need to fight that guy. If I was the devil and I was looking for someone to attack, the ntcc would be the last place I'd attack. There is no need to attack them because the board members and the majority of the preachers already belong to him. Why waste your time fighting against people that are already doing your bidding for you? Go find an organization that spends most of their time preaching salvation and caring about the people they lead to Christ. Find a church that has an outreach to the homeless and that loves God enough to care about people. Find a group that loves their neighbor as themselves and actually cares about their communities. Those are the people I'd go after if I were the devil. Fortunately, contrary to popular belief, I am not the devil. I don't like seeing people used and abused and that is why we blog against the ntcc.
ReplyDelete"By the way there is no scripture that mentions sparing the rod."
ReplyDeleteAu contraire:
Proverbs 13:24 "He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes."
19:18 "Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying."
23:13 "Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die."
The bible definitely teaches corporal punishment. It says in black and white that we are to beat children with the rod and ignore their cries of pain. That's the problem with being a fundamentalist--you are bound by what an old dusty book says, because you are supposed to believe that every syllable was personally uttered by God. Well, I've read the bible through well over a dozen times, and used every tactic I could muster to harmonize it. Finally I had to conclude that something is fishy. I've quit trying to defend verses like those above, because I don't think they represent what any worthy God would say. I really have a hard time believing that if a guy thought his wife was cheating, he was supposed to bring her to the priest, who would feed her some water with dust from the temple mixed in and pronounce some curse over her so that if she indeed committed adultery, this "bitter water" would cause her belly to swell and her thigh to rot. Huh? What kind of voodoo is that? And what if you were some poor schlub, just trying to live and let live, and a guy comes at you saying "the LORD told me to tell you and the rest to to into yon village and kill everything that breathes, to include women, children, infants, even animals." Say what? I think the real test of faithfulness to God in that situation is whether a person will go along with a clearly heinous act because "God (allegedly) said so," or whether they'll decide to go find some other church that's not so crazy.
Free yourselves from slavish obedience to the letter. The letter kills. Did you ever wonder how these writings came to be regarded as scriptures? My understanding is that there was a conference, and a bunch of "board members" and other controller types got to do the deciding. Isn't it interesting that the scrolls that made the cut are the very ones which reinforce their position in the hierarchy? I don't think that's coincidental.
So go ahead and love God. Do what the spirit moves you to do, but don't get tangled up in bibliolatry. It's a snare. It'll have you beating your kids. It'll have you forbidding women to even speak in church. There are all kinds of goofy things in there--don't be deceived. Use your judgment; don't uncritically accept anything. Remember--the bible is the most potent tool that NTCC types have to keep people under oppression. All they have to do is trot out some verse, and the poor brainwashed suckers are ready to violate their own conciences in an effort to be "obedient."
Vic said: "Finally I had to conclude that something is fishy. I've quit trying to defend verses like those above, because I don't think they represent what any worthy God would say."
DeleteI've been reading the blogs surprised no one had mentioned this yet... A literal and unbending interpretation of the Koran gives us ISIS and a literal and fundamentalist interpretation of the bible is the spine that allows groups like ntcc to stand and can be an especially devastating tool in the hands of evil men. Fifteen years out of ntcc now, healthy, happy and much wiser. The one time factnet poster StillSmallVoice.
Marshall was awful to those boys, and they were great kids. Hampton treated them like crap too. I don't know that he physically abused them, but he was very contemptuous and overbearing toward them. Once I went and visited them and the older one--Cary, I think--came by for something. He wasn't living there. He'd grown his hair out, and Hampton just mocked him in front of me, calling him "hippie boy" and such. The kid looked miserable. I really wish I'd have stood up for him, but I didn't. I did feel bad, though. I hope they ended up OK.
ReplyDeleteI was hoping that Dianne Marshall Hampton actually married a good man after divorcing Marshall. Those boys and Diane deserved so much more than NTCC abuse. And yes Cary was the oldest and Carlos the youngest. I actually hoped she had excaped. I was wrong.
DeleteFreebird
I was checking out Meinecke's twitter account and found that the last few entries are Ads for Viagra. It seems like Mathew Meinecke plays an interesting roll in Ashmore's ministry. All of his social media accounts seem to be labelled "Jesus Revival Ministries" and he makes it a point to make everyone aware that he is the associate pastor of this group. While going through some of his latest entries I noticed that he posted a video called the Shanna project where people are harassing a street person that goes by Shanna and appears to be a person of transgender persuasion. They start out the video by audibly casting the demons out, but they don't really seem to want to leave, perhaps like the sons of Sceva incident in the bible. The ones doing the harassing don't really seem to be acting out of love, but they seem to be more interested in making fun of the person who doesn't really seem to be bothering anyone. In the bible the seven sons of Sceva who was a jew and a chief priest, took it upon themselves to try to cast out demons, but the demons said "Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?" and proceeded to leap out of the one man onto all seven of them and they prevailed so that they ended up fleeing the scene naked and wounded. These guys are lucky that something similar didn't happen to them. It hurts to watch this. I don't even think I've watched it all the way through because it reminds me of ntcc abuse and has very little to do with winning anyone to Christ. click to see the Shanna project. This video was posted by Meinecke 4 days in a row on his twitter account and sandwiched in between this same video being posted over and over again was another video which appears to be a video of Meinecke being arrested in Seattle. Not sure why he was arrested, he never said why, but he implied that they just arrested him for no other reason than for riding his bike. This video catches him complaining for more than two minutes straight about being arrested for no reason and how tight his handcuffs are.
ReplyDeleteMeinecke arrested in Seattle Where did Ashmore dig this guy up and why is this guy Ashmore's right hand man? What is it so important about Meinecke that Ashmore would allow him to use his churches name to endorse this kind of thing?
I know Vic. I looked up all the scriptures you did also. Sparing the rod and spoiling the child is specifically not in the bible and that is what they always said and that is what I was talking about. "Spareth" and "sparing" are two different tenses, but it's all good. We are on the same side. No harm, no fowl. I agree with most of what you write and even though every once in a while I have found things to disagree with, that's not what we are here for and I often leave it alone. This is all I want to say about it. We have a pretty good thread going right now and don't wish to side track it with hair splitting.
ReplyDeleteVic said:
ReplyDelete"I don't know that he physically abused them, but he was very contemptuous and overbearing toward them."
DNA said:
That seemed to be the ntcc way. More than often the ntcc was like a gauntlet of insults and humiliation. It was like walking through a minefield trying not to step on the one that would end your existence. I felt especially sorry for the kids, because that is all they knew in most cases. Very few of them got to grow up like Grant and Tanya not having to apply any of the ntcc rules for fools to themselves. In some cases I think the verbal abuse was just as damaging and just as harmful as the physical abuse. If you treat someone like an idiot long enough they begin to believe that they are an idiot and that is more harmful than a few cuts and bruises will ever be.
I'll never forget one time in the serviceman's home the pastor made my wife weigh herself in front of all the brothers and called her fat and ridiculed her. She was holding back tears. I have always regretted not standing up for her to the pastor but in that controlled and brainwashed environment men can't be men, but instead live to serve and please another man. It's disgusting. If I was in ntcc right now I would run and not look back. All this talk of loosening "the rules"? Too little, too late and done for the wrong reasons. What they should do is to apologize to everyone they ever hurt. Unlikely though...
DeleteYou are right about the mine fields and verbal abuse laced with serious spiritual humiliation.
ReplyDeleteI have been out for over 20 years now flying high like a freebird should and to this day still remember the prominent mode of operation; that being, verbal shock and awe. I always loved the one that went like this: "If you don't like it, there is the door, I was here before you got here and will be here long after you leave'. Now mind you this is straight to you from behind the pulpit and called out by name and if not by name then with enough info for all to figure it out. Most of the time I was amazed as to how these negative conclusions actually came into being, especially when they reference me and I knew they were unfounded. What is it like today in 2015? I can't imagine they are as bold and forward. I saw kekel one time back in 80's while preaching he came out of the pulpit and grabbed a brother by the tie and pulled him up and preached to his face and threw him back down into his chair. Man we were brainwashed, let that cat try that now, I bet he meets some resistance. How could they be bold nowadays with so much truth about them being exposed. I can't help but to believe that there is much secret talk, and wives are standing up to their husbands and telling them to grab ahold and man up. I can even believe that kekel himself is brainstorming how he can save himself in all of this. Johnson, well he is just a strange one, not sure about him and olson, he is blind as a bat, he doesn't even know what is happening, he probably talks out loud to RW, thinking he is there in spirit. They are probably all quoting scriptures about how God is going to judge us severely for all these "lies" and I would be willing to bet that we have been painted so many different kinds of black that those poor members don't even know what to think. Well, let me help you out. Go watch the last service Jim Jones had before they drank the kool aid, they were shouting and dancing and singing but at the same time making plans and trying to figure out how they were gonna get out of there. Then it was to late. Oh, you think your special? I see, well don't be silly, your not special. Look into the eyes of hundreds of children in Jones-town on that last service while they were singing and worshiping God they didn't even know that God was going to allow them to die a horrible and terrible death a few hours later. God WILL allow you to waste 30 years of your life and not even blink a eye. He WILL allow you to give of your tithe for decades even though it is lining the accounts of someone else's retirement account. Now go slap yourself.
Anonymous imaskingwhy said:
ReplyDelete"I saw kekel one time back in 80's while preaching he came out of the pulpit and grabbed a brother by the tie and pulled him up and preached to his face and threw him back down into his chair."
DNA said:
I'd like to see Kekel try that in any other setting outside of his little cult circus that he is running. Kekel would get his smug little face bashed in if he tried that anywhere else. It's amazing that a whole church full of brain washed morons can sit in a service watch a nobody like Kekel treat another human being that way. I mean, we were all under the delusion of ntcc doctrine at some point. You are right, we sure were brainwashed to go along with some of these shenanigans. I'm surprised that someone hasn't rearranged Kekel's face by now. I'm sure he'll attribute it to God protecting him, but there are some folks out there like MDR who came close to it. I'm sure if Kekel is not careful, he'll piss off the wrong person and there'll be a price to pay for that. Kekel is a jerk.
There have been some comments that I haven't published recently. Please don't be offended; it's nothing personal. For some reason comments from different people have been coming in, that I don't want to address at this time. Some comments can be addressed with one comment but I don't want to get off into bible discussions about opinions and doctrines, or go off topic addressing a subject that I know will go back and forth. Please don't take this as a personal attack, or any type of insult. We like to keep things going in a general direction. Sometimes something new gets introduced that is important information that keeps people updated and I'm not trying to keep people from commenting on unrelated topics altogether. I'm not wanting to completely change the subject on some of these threads. I think the subject that we are covering right now is important and I don't want to do anything to derail it. I'm not saying that your comments will derail it, but your comments along with my response and then your response and then my response and so on will take us off topic. Fair enough? By the way this blog is a combined effort and work. While as of late, I have been making most of the comments, Ange has a lot of influence on what is said and she also does a lot of maintenance on this blog. We often read the comments together and many times when I respond I include her input into our comment. Sometimes I will drop what I'm doing when she says something that relates to the blog and make a comment off of what she quotes. What really makes this blog a success is your comments and when they are on target and when you share things that resonate with what we all have been through, people read and participate. We don't discriminate against anyone or have it in for anyone other than the ntcc and it's leadership. We have at times had to ask people to tone things down especially towards former victims of abuse because we want them to feel safe here. There have been a couple instances where we have told people that they are no longer welcome to comment, but it was only after asking them politely on multiple occasions not to act like an ntcc pastor by standing in judgment of someone who painfully spilled their guts about how they were abused in the ntcc. I know we've been accused of censoring and cherry picking comments and some people don't agree with our position. That's okay. Outside of using a lot of profanity and preaching at victims, we have published just about everything that people want to contribute. We want this blog to be effective and sometimes to keep things on point we find it necessary to avoid some topics at certain times. We think spankings and the ntcc day school are topics that need to be discussed in detail. Some times these discussions about spankings lead to other testimonies like imaskingwhy's story about Kekel grabbing that guy by the tie and disrespecting him in front of a whole congregation. That is blog worthy material and that was a very good comment. It also shed's light on ntcc abuse. We appreciate everyone's contributions. The last few blog posts have been great and without your comments this blog would be totally dead.
ReplyDeleteLooks like Shanna schooled what sounded like Matt Meinecke. Good for her! They took on the wrong person.
ReplyDeleteI also noticed that Matt has more wine than the local vineyards!
When will these folks ever learn that you can't argue people into heaven, you can only love them into heaven?
Freebird
Davis often said, "That man will never build a work for the Lord" about Hampton. When Diana and Mike got divorced she ended up getting recycled into a marriage with a man who wasn't in favor with Davis. Her and the kids ended up with Hampton pastoring a church that was only 15 miles away from the camp ground and yet they had to stay in the Dickson's old dilapidated Garage. Thank God that they let them stay because Davis wouldn't let them stay on the campground in spite of having plenty of room. Davis wasn't about to spend a dime helping a brother and his homeless family out. I think Davis would have rather had Marshall's money and numbers no matter how poorly he treated Diana and her kids. We don't blame Brother Hampton for any of this because he had a back injury that prevented him from doing his normal job which was installing windshields. But we all know with Davis there are no excuses and that's why he left Hampton living homeless with his family while there was a campground with hundreds of rooms and a lodge that can accommodate multiple families. Not counting Davis's private suite that had it's own parlor, huge bedroom, private bath and air conditioning. The rest of the lodge has 6 separate bedrooms with queen sized beds and small closets, three on the front of the building having their own balcony on the outside. There is also a bathroom on that side with a couple of shower stalls, toilets and sinks. On the back side of the lodge where the other three bedrooms are located, there is an additional bathroom that also has two shower stalls two toilets and two sinks. The rear bedrooms do not have balconies. Eric and I always stayed in one of these when we stayed at the campground as workers/care takers. Click here to read about the Hampton's Homelessness story.
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately the Hamptons were forced to sell their property so they could move lock stock and barrel to Mexico, Missouri. Davis was upset because Hampton didn't want to take his lowball offer that he made to scarf up his real estate in Washington. The ntcc was so distraught over this story being published on our blog that they had someone leave a derogatory comment on our blog refuting what was shared and rebuking us for publicizing the names that were mentioned. It's funny sometimes how the ntcc admits their own guilt by being ashamed that they were involved in such a greedy and un-brotherly affair. They don't want their names published because their actions show publicly how evil they really are. I'm sure that they would prefer all of their actions to be kept private but unfortunately when you run a multi-million dollar organization and live like a rock star or Hollywood actor, people don't care about your privacy, they just want to know where and how you got all your money. Get over Yourselves! If you don't want the attention or publicity than stop getting rich off of other peoples sacrifices. You sure don't have a problem with publicly humiliating people when they don't pay their tithe. You are the first to roast people over the fires of hell when things don't go your way. Bunch of double standard, lying hypocrites!
This is much more widespread and overt with evidence everywhere. There is no getting the genie back in the bottle. Women who've been trapped in the NTCC for years/decades probably read this stuff just nodding their heads. Eventually something will penetrate the brain of these women because when you mess with a mothers children it's game on.
ReplyDeleteThe sexual abuse has probably gone further underground or has stopped because of blogs like this. Some abusers understand they better get their act together and hide it better or look elsewhere for victims (hopefully they stop altogether).
Back to the point though, this is a very relatable subject to those still in the trance. If 10% recognize the improperness of this violence then that's a good chunk of change that will be gone.
I'd also like to add I believe in spankings but not to the Adrian Peterson/NTCC level. There is no mercy in what they do, it's just vicious, control happy men taking matters into their own hands.
Mike
Oops, my post should have said that Meinecke has more whine than the local vineyards. It was referencing him in the back of the Seattle police cruiser. Darn that auto correct!
ReplyDeleteUnfortunately Hampton didn't realize Davis was trying to run him off. Low numbers = Low $$. I pray that he and Dianne wake up so they can have a healthy relationship with God.
A little snippet again on Marshall. For months at nearly every service he would go on and on about how wonderful and godly and submissive Asian women were.... UNTIL they came to America! He would rant for a whole sermon month after month. I got so sick of it I wouldn't go to Sunday AM services because that's when he was the worst.
We had a wonderful Korean woman that sat with her GI hubby in the front row and he would just bash her by saying how America corrupts Asian women- just like the rest of us women.
I felt so bad for Dianne and the Korean woman. I immediately knew he had a fetish for them. I wasn't surprised that he went to the Phillipines. I figured that it was by his request, I could be wrong but it would fit his m.o.
Does anyone know if it was Philippino women he had relations with? I just figured he got his taste in Asian women from Davis since he was a monkey see monkey do type of a guy.
Also I hung out with Tillicum locals that had nothing to do with the church. I will not say this is true since I never witnessed it but many would say that they personally knew that Marshall was running around on Dianne. They would tell me that he was such a hippocrit. Since it was a rumor I understand if you delete that part. However, with the reason he got kicked out it now makes me wonder...
If one can verbally abuse all women that can theoretically defend themselves, how are you going to treat children that cannot!
Freebird
Yesterday I read an entire book, I don't like reading but the title caught my eye "I Fired God- My life inside the Independent Fundamental Baptist Church" by Jocelyn R. Zichterman.
ReplyDeleteIt was as if I was reading straight from the NTCC playbook. It wasn't about a woman who turned her back on God, it was how she found the One True God and the atrocities that she witnessed and lived through while being in the IFB church.
It went through the rampant abuses against women but especially the physical and sexual abuses that occur within Fundemental churches. For those that can't possibly believe the Lisa's, the Julie's, the Ken's you will after reading this book. It breaks down the power structure, the money, the good 'Ole boys clubs, etc.
She may be writing about Independent Fundamental Baptist but she is writing about how all cult's work. No matter the name, no matter the religion, they are operate the same. The profound abuse of women and children always ends the same... broken spirits, broken lives.
Her witness to physical abuse was spot on as to the physical abuses that are testified about on this blog.
For all you out there that say that these topics should not be discussed I challenge you to read "I Fired God". You can get a free Kindle App for your smart phone or computer and download the book from Amazon for $12.99 plus tax. You can also get a used hardback for much less on Amazon.
I guarantee you that Keckel will preach against this book as soon as he and his Minions read this blog. It exposes ALL of them!
If reading is not your thing, then watch on YouTube 20/20 Shattered Faith or 20/20 Investigates: Independent Fundamental Baptist Church. The same woman helped in both of the investigations. She has also assisted the FBI, CPS, etc. She has also helped with Anderson Coopers 360 "Ungodly Discipline". It may be on YouTube also.
If God leads us on which way to go, he surely led me to this book last night. This topic and how this book ties it all together is not by chance.
Blessings to all you Freebirds and those soon to be set Free!
Mike said:
ReplyDelete"I'd also like to add I believe in spankings but not to the Adrian Peterson/NTCC level. There is no mercy in what they do, it's just vicious, control happy men taking matters into their own hands."
DNA said:
I agree. I think that spankings can be a necessary part of raising a child. I know a lot of people say that they never had to spank their child and others who did. I haven't had children but I raised my little brother in the absence of my parent and I did spank him a few times. I didn't abuse him or leave marks on him nor did I leave bruises on him. Once he knew I meant business he behaved really good, but I personally don't think it was because of the spankings as much as it was about the love. I loved him and included him in many of the things I did, and in turn he did the things I wanted him to do, like behave. I think where many parents fail is that they don't have time to love their kids, especially in the ntcc, and when the kids don't get the attention they crave from both parents, they act out to get attention elsewhere. My Mom and Dad were amazed at how well my brother behaved when he was with me, and I was too. He was my brother, 12 years younger than me and at 3 or 4 years old I would take the time to do things with him and that made him feel important. People in the ntcc get so stinking busy that they don't have time for their kids. The ntcc teaches them to use the rod of correction to drive the disobedience out of them, when most of time the children just need to be given a proper childhood. You can't give them a proper childhood when you are dragging them around to church 5 times a week and soul winning and bible study and fellowship. Some of you ntcc parents ought to skip a couple nights worth of ntcc programming and spend that quality time with your children and see what kind of difference that makes to your family. I promise you that you will not die and go to hell for missing another cult gathering, but you will earn dividends that will last a life time with your children. Instead of trying to drive the devil out of them with a belt, why not take your son to a ball game or take the family bowling or play miniture golf. You aren't going to die and go to hell for spending time with your family. In fact if you were to take half of your tithe and spend it on nice things for your family you would improve the quality of life for your children and you would be hero to your wife and kids. Stop oppressing them and start loving them. Stop feeding Kekels greed and hunger for your tithe dollars and put that money into raising your family right and see if the windows of heaven don't open for you. You've already been struggling and waiting for those windows to open while you wait all your Christian life while Kekel spends your tithe dollars on new corner window tapestries (click here) for the large Jacuzzi tub in their bathroom.
Freebird said...
ReplyDeleteOops, my post should have said that Meinecke has more whine than the local vineyards. It was referencing him in the back of the Seattle police cruiser. Darn that auto correct!
DNA said:
That's alright, we knew what you meant. He was whining the whole time he was in back of the car and I guess we are just supposed to believe that he was arrested for just riding his bike. Sounds pretty fishy to me. You don't just cuff someone and arrest them for riding a bike. "You are under arrest for riding a bike, for your own safety"! Maybe he was riding his bike through a public park and inadvertently rode into a police sting at a public park where he propositioned a kid for sex or something. I'm not accusing him of doing that but it's more likely than just getting arrested for riding a bike. Why should we give these guys a break, they never stop accusing us or abusing their own church members. Maybe Meinecke was preaching to someone and the cops drug him out of there for his own good, but I guarantee that he didn't just get arrested for riding a bike. I know a lot of X-ers love Ashmore and Meinecke comes along with Ashmore as a package deal. It's sad to see Ashmore reduced from being a powerful board member in the ntcc to becoming a San Diego local kook minister with a blood moon prophet for a sidekick who harasses transgender people and catches it all on video. I'm sure there has got to be a huge calling for ministers with those kinds of talents. That's what they tell people before they place them in the funny farm; "It's for your own safety, sir". Maybe Ashmore should take Mathew M. to Meinecke and get a permanent muffler installed, before Meinecke destroys Ashmore's new independent ministry.
Is there not one soul from NTCC willing to explain this?
ReplyDeleteI've noticed that NTCC uses quotes on its website from members that reference something to the idea that "there is no such thing as a perfect church" and blah blah blah...
I imagine they are using that line as damage control concerning all the horrible stories that continue to seep out of every pour of this organization.
Funny thing is they sure set themselves up as perfect "I can't remember the last time that I sinned"...
Sexual misconduct, Spousal/Child abuse, hypocrisy, holiness now not holiness, Leaders letting their children get away with everything they preach against, pyramid/real estate scams, tax evasion by the founder, adultery by the founder, whorehouses by the assistant preacher at the bible college... Yeah, I guess saying it's not a perfect church would be the line I'd use.
Kekel, you're a putz!
Mike
Well, since they hate it so much, let's rehearse it again: Hampton was selling his place; I think for $65K so he could go to Missouri. I mentioned it to Gesang and he was just seething about it. He told me that the org should have that property, and there was no way he would get that inflated price.
ReplyDeleteIt sold about a week later :-) .
Ashmore was in on the Shanna thing; his voice is on the soundtrack.
The Independent Fundamental Baptists are what RW patterned NTCC after. He told us that he even went up to Hammond, Indiana to visit the church pastored by Jack Hyles (another disgusting control freak philanderer) to see how they did things. We visited one here in Fairbanks after we left the org and it gave me major NTCC flashbacks. The pastor was channeling RW (or maybe they were both channeling Jack Hyles) in a major way. It was weird--I found myself inexplicably attracted to it, but knew way too much to let myself get sucked into an outfit like that. They're still up here, and have the reputation as the local fanatic church.
Although Matt Meinecke has no credibility, I don't find it at all hard to believe that a cop would detain someone for practially nothing. There are all kinds of YouTube videos of citizens having their rights trampled by one local gestapo or another. It's been going on forever, but in the age of ubiquitous cellphone cameras, now they're getting caught. It's pretty weird he'd put that video up without any kind of explanation or clarification, though, but he seems like a pretty weird guy.
Freebird said:
ReplyDeleteIf reading is not your thing, then watch on YouTube 20/20 Shattered Faith or 20/20 Investigates: Independent Fundamental Baptist Church. The same woman helped in both of the investigations. She has also assisted the FBI, CPS, etc. She has also helped with Anderson Coopers 360 "Ungodly Discipline". It may be on YouTube also.
DNA said:
Thank you for passing this along. We are going to leave a link to the 20/20 investigation right here: Shattered Faith (click here)
This huge baptist church called Independent Fundamental Baptist church is so much like the ntcc it'll make the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. Those of you in the ntcc, please watch this so you'll know what to do when this happens to someone in your family. A girl in this church is physically beat and molested by her step father. The girl was 11 and 12 when the sexual abuse took place. When the girl was 15, she was baby sitting for a church family, and the Father of this family took her out for a driving lesson to teach her how to drive, and pulled her into the back seat and raped her. She ended up confiding in the man who raped her when she came up pregnant four months later. The man's solution was to pay for her to get an abortion and when the young girl didn't agree to that, he suggested that he punch her as hard as he could in the stomach so she would have a miscarriage. She ended up confiding in her mother who ended up confiding in their pastor. The girl was made to stand up and confess in front of her church that she had a sexual relationship with a boy and she was shunned by the church. The Man confessed to committing adultery, but neither of their confessions were specific and nobody knew that it was that man who made the girl pregnant. The man was allowed to continue being an usher and assisting in other church matters while the girl had to stay in an apartment above the pastor's house for a week or so, at which time the man had to pay for a plane ticket for the young girl to be flown out to Denver and stay with another IFB church family where she had the baby, out of reach from the questioning police in New Hampshire. The reporter who covered this story asked the right questions. The sorry scumbag that raped this young girl told the pastor of the church that the girl gave her consent. The reporter asked if it mattered to the pastor that a 15 year old girl couldn't legally give her consent? None of this mattered to the pastor, only the cover up of this whole thing mattered.
This is a lot like Davis handled the molestation of Pam and Johnny Jordan's rape of Lisa. He had Ashmore shun Lisa and he moved Pam and Johnny to Washington along with Barbaric Barbara Norton, Pam's biological mother. It's amazing when you look at the similarities between How the IFB handled the rape of a young girl in the IFB church and how Davis handled his situation. There must be a handbook for perverted preachers who rape and molest young girls that they all go by to cover it up. This church was so much like the ntcc it's not funny. The women had to wear dresses that went down below their knees and were to be in subjection to their husbands having no voice or say in anything that matters. They would twist bible scriptures to justify beating an infant, like Cyruis used to do. They couldn't listen to music with a beat, and had church 6 times a week, and had to attend day school just like the ntcc had back in the day. What a recipe for child abuse and sexual abuse. Get your kids out of the ntcc before they become victims.
Hey Vic,
ReplyDeleteMy jaw dropped when you said Davis modeled NTCC after IFB. By chance did you guys read any of the books put out by IFB? EVERYTHING and everybody all have Bob Jones University (or College, can't remember the exact name) as a common denomiter.
There are over 40 factions of IFB out there but all the good 'Ole boys can trace back to Bob Jones University. If you get a chance read the book I recommended Vic.
Google Michael Pearl's book "To Raise a Child". The disciplining children in NTCC comes straight from it.
I am shocked that Davis patterned NTCC after the IFB! The FBI has shut down several of their pastors. Maybe this is the jump start they need to shut down NTCC.
The author of I Fired God has a survivor Facebook page. I will look it up when I get home and pass it onto this blog.
Hold on to your hymnals MCK. The flock is about to Fly Away!
Freebird
We used some IFB publications in BS--specifically "Let's Go Soul Winning," and one about starting a bus ministry. Both were by Jack Hyles and published by Sword of the Lord Ministries. I remember that in Tillicum, we weren't allowed to go soul-trapping without having listened to the "Let's Go Soul Winning" companion LP. It was really cheesy and stilted, but at least they emphasized actual "witnessing," rather than just inviting people to the compound.
ReplyDeleteThe name of the IFB survivor group is Independent Fundamental Baptist Survivor Group on Facebook.
ReplyDeleteIt was enlightening just to read the- About and Description of the group. Many of the phrases they used were identical to NTCC. The only real differences are: Kekels are the head of the real estate empire; they believe in Dominionism with trusting God to give you as many children as possible; and NTCC preys on the military.
Other than that, same 'ole, same 'ole.
I should have warned those that haven't come to grips with their sexual trauma, the book- I Fired God may bring up traumatic memories.
Please folks, if you still live through nightmares, have flashbacks, can't resolve the sexual, verbal or the religious trauma that NTCC has caused look up the sexual abuse network-RAINN.org or call a domestic abuse hotline. Most can set you up with specialized FREE or reduced fee counselling in your area. They also can tell you how to escape safely with your children.
There is a wonderful life outside of NTCC! However you have to go through many stages of grief to get there. Thus, the reason for a specialized counselor.
Also, there are many sites on the Web that tell you how to escape a cult or abusive marriage SAFELY.
Soar High Freebirds
Freebird said:
ReplyDeleteMaybe this is the jump start they need to shut down NTCC.
DNA said:
What will shut down the ntcc is a lot of awareness and some good lawsuits. Hopefully people will wake up and figure this stuff out. It's a shame that people have to be educated about something so obvious as abuse. The IFB and NTCC organizations have learned to keep crime hidden inside their churches and they use fear to keep people from using the proper channels. We are not stupid anymore and these things are obvious to us. The ntcc keeps people dumbed down. They convince their church members that the Man of God is the proper authority to report physical and sexual abuse to. Well guess what? The Man of God is not really a man of God if he does anything other than report abuse to the police. Why would God protect an abuser and treat the abused child like it was their fault? Common sense should tell people that abuse is wrong. So how hard is it to figure out who the victim is? Is it the full grown married man's fault that has a family and money and claims to be a part of the last move of God on earth, or should we blame the 15 year old girl? If you are a grown adult and you can't keep your filthy paws off of a child that is under 18, you deserve to go to jail, and I don't care if that girl got naked and threw herself at you. In most cases the girl doesn't even comprehend what is happening. The sick freaks in the ntcc that preach holiness and purity and separation have all turned a blind eye to the abuse that's taken place in their precious organization. So why would a man or woman that loves God turn a blind eye to abuse? They wouldn't. You can't ignore an abused child and sit back and do nothing and call yourself a Christian. Don't pretend to be something you are not. I'm convinced that every board member to include Ashmore and Rodrigues have known about both physical and sexual abuse that has taken place, but rather than do something to stop it from ever happening again, they all went along with it and hid it so that the stinking organization would not have it's reputation tarnished by a child. The pedophile and predator parents were all given a chance to repent and get on with their lives with no consequences, while the children have to live with it for the rest of their lives. The very fact that your organization has to be protected is an admission that your organization is wrong and so are the leaders who have orchestrated your silence to protect them. You are not protecting an organization, you are protecting a network of criminals that have been hiding behind church pulpits and altars since the inception of the ntcc.
Vic Johanson said...
ReplyDeleteWe used some IFB publications in BS--specifically "Let's Go Soul Winning," and one about starting a bus ministry.
DNA said:
I remember vividly Davis plagiarizing Hyles book during a conference. "The Spectator has invaded the church. The Pew has become a bleacher". Little did we know that Davis was the biggest spectator of them all. How many times did he ever get off his butt and go soul snatching? And to what end were we doing all that soul winning? Who was benefiting from all of our 'labors of love'? Was God's kingdom getting any bigger. It's actually got much smaller if you consider all the people who have come in and gone out of the ntcc doors. Many of them were beaten down so bad in one church service that they didn't want anything to do with religion ever again. Some were abused over a period of time by those who were supposed to be looking after their flock. Very few remain in the ntcc and most of the ones who are still hanging in their wouldn't know Jesus is he materialized right in front of them. The General board of the ntcc have little idea what soul winning was all about. They teach it over and over again but they don't ever go. They sit around all smug in their RV's while everyone else does the work and then you get them into church so that some 60 year old relic of false doctrine can find a way to offend them to the point of never wanting anything to do with the ntcc for the rest of their lives. They've run off 1,000 people for every one person who has stayed and that one person seldom has a clue to what the difference between a healthy church and a malicious cult is.
Grant's Birthday is coming up pretty soon. Have you ntcc'rs decided what you are going to get him? Perhaps a new car or SUV? Oh, I forgot, you don't even have to worry about it, just pay your tithe and Kekel will decide what to get him with your money. I'm sure Grant will really be excited about the expensive gift that you got him this year but he won't be thanking any of you that bought it, he'll be thanking his mom and dad for brainwashing all of you good people, (suckers), into buying him this nice present, while your son gets deployed to Afghanistan for his 23rd birthday. This message has been brought to you by X-ers against abusive hucksters and Freebirds against lying scoundrels who are leaches on the body of Christ sucking the life out of people and consuming their finances and time.
ReplyDeleteYou guys have created a another cult of your own spreading falsehood. If you haven't noticed yet Rev. J. R. Ashmore nor Rev. Meinecke have stopped preaching the Word of God just because of your blasphemy against them. There is two new videos on Rev. Meinecke. You guys are all so evil.
ReplyDeletehow is it false when i have eyewitness and ear-witness oroof that i was lied about on the reason I left?
DeleteAnd all the people said....AAAMEN!
ReplyDeleteStanding For Truth said...
ReplyDeleteYou guys have created a another cult of your own spreading falsehood. If you haven't noticed yet Rev. J. R. Ashmore nor Rev. Meinecke have stopped preaching the Word of God just because of your blasphemy against them. There is two new videos on Rev. Meinecke. You guys are all so evil.
DNA said:
I noticed that the other day. I'm not surprised. We commented that Meinecke the Blood Moon Prophet was cranking out 2 to 3 videos a week and when we called him out on his Blood Moon Prophesy, the videos just magically stopped for about 2 months. After we mentioned it a couple times I guess they didn't want us to be right so they cranked out another video or two. Hey, the more the merrier. The more groups like Ashmore's go public the more negative attention they'll create. It never fails. Especially when you have someone as whacked out as Meinecke, preaching false doctrines and putting videos of himself whining in the back of a police car after getting arrested. Davis used to say, if you give them enough rope they'll hang themselves with it. Davis was smart enough to keep the cameras and video equipment away from his ministry. Ashmore will only put up with so much embarrassment, unless there are other reasons he's keeping Meinecke around. After all, Ashmores special treatment of Batson and Peters was really weird.
I don't believe just because Ashmore left the ntcc that he all of the sudden has changed. He was a part of all the ntcc abuse that occurred in 40 years and most of those years he was a board member. He was asked straight up if he had any knowledge of ntcc involvement in abuse and financial scandals and he played stupid and acted as if we were all dumb enough to believe that he had no knowledge of what was going on. There might be a lot of brain washed dummies out there that believe that, but he was a big part of the abuse and just wont admit to any of it. You have to first admit that you have a problem before you can be treated for it, and Ashmore has no interest in owning up to his part in the ntcc. He'll be the first to call them names like the great whore while his associate pastor preaches to his church members about blood moon prophesies and end of times false doctrines. Ashmore is nothing more than a burned out ntcc preacher who hopes to cash in on the ntcc exodus.
Good try on accusing us of starting a cult, but we are not the ones profiting off of the gospel or abusing kids physically and sexually. Ashmore has a lot more seasoned X-ntcc preachers that are riding pews in San Diego. Why is he so hell bent on making Meinecke the blood moon prophet his second in command? How many children has Ashmore beaten? How many marriages has he seen broken up in those board meetings that he used to sit in? Was Ashmore in the board meeting when Gesang's X-wife brought in her beaten up Todler and shown the bruises and marks all over his body? Did Ashmore do anything or did he just go along with the rest of the board? We don't profit off of other people's suffering like Ashmore and Meinecke do. If anyone is running a cult, it's Ashmore. I hope they continue their YouTube ministry because so far it has shown how cultish they really are.
The Board. What a joke. I heard from RW's own lips that if he had a board member that didn't go along with the rest, he'd get rid of him. It was just a rubber-stamping body of yes-men, and RW himself had no compunction about telling us all that he was the "ex officio officer in charge of everything," as he put it. What he wanted was the only thing that ever counted in NTCC, and no board or congregation was going to stop him. That's why he set up the org like he did. As is typical of personality cults, power resided in a single narcissist. Now we have Kekel, but he doesn't appear to have the people skills to pull it off. RW was harsh but he knew how to turn on the charm. Mike comes across as nothing more than a sneering punk, and people get sick of that.
ReplyDeleteI always thought that X-members of the ntcc would be very cautious not to fall for the same gag again, but there are so many of them who seem to have forgotten what Ashmore was all about. A know there are a few that actually moved down there and joined up with him and Meinecke. There are others who will no longer talk to us because we have 'blasphemed' him. We were often similarly accused by the ntcc loyalists of blaspheming the ntcc idols, and now Ashmore is saying the same things about the ntcc leaders that we were saying when they accused us of blaspheming. All of the sudden Ashmore jumps off the burning ship with the rest of the drowning rats and he has replaced the ntcc in the eyes of some, who will never learn. Ashmore calls the Organization the great whore which is what we have been calling them for years and now people are comfortable with him saying that while we were continually repudiated. That's alright because I don't care what Ashmore, the ntcc or any of their cult followers think. He hasn't changed enough to earn the trust that he seems to require. It's like giving your allegiance to a traitor. Hopefully people don't get burned a second time. The blood moon prophet is preaching that the end of times is here. Tear some more pages out of the bible and prepare yourself for Armageddon. They must take people for fools, but I guess if they are supporting him with their dollars like they did the ntcc, maybe people will never learn. Maybe they just have to have someone to follow and someone to pay off. That's what I hate about the ntcc and cults just like Ashmore's. They depend on people shutting off their brains and following them without doing any research. They thrive off of peoples willingness to ignorantly trust them and blindly follow them with financial and physical support. I'm sure that the 1.5 million dollar chapel in a waterfront neighborhood rents for a pretty nice chunk of change. People will just never learn. How many souls are they going to win in between videos of rebuking transgender people and videos of Meinecke whining in the back of police cars? Do they really care about souls or are they just going through the same motions that they were in the ntcc?
ReplyDeleteStanding For Truth,
ReplyDeleteDo you know what the definition of a cult is?
International Cultic Studies Association defines it as thus- "Cult (Totalistic Type) Definition: 1) Excessively zealous, unquestioning commitment to the identity and leaders of the group by the members; 2) exploitative manipulation of members; and 3) harm or danger of harm."
The folk's that came up with this defintion hold real PhD's (not ones they made up) from real regionally acredited colleges and universities. They have spent their entire careers researching and studying cults.
So how does any blog by ex-ers even come close to this defintion? We don't have secret meetings. We Ex-ers have found our voice AFTER leaving a cult. We support each other in the common cause of exposing current and past abusive people and ideologies found in the NTCC in hopes members of NTCC will see that they too can leave.
If you have been abusive, have knowledge to many crimes and leave this cult- don't expect a free pass. Ain't gonna happen!
Ashmore has committed real crimes and has not been held accountable. This "Jesus forgives my past so you must too," bologna just doesn't fly.
Do you know what kind of civil lawsuits could be levied against him for half the stuff he has knowledge to? His victims should know that just because the criminal statute of limitations may be over, the civil ones many times have much longer time. I hope the parents of StClair's victims in the south (Mississippi or Louisiana) understand they can sue NTCC for moving him to a new State and for restoring his preaching license.
Jesus forgives, the victims and the goverment never forgets.
Freebird
Standing For Truth said...
ReplyDelete"You guys are so evil"
What makes us so evil? Is it our unwillingness to fall for the same scam twice in a row? Come on Mr or Mrs standing for the truth. Let's see you stand for it if it's really the truth. What makes us evil and Ashmore pure as the wind driven snow? It's okay for him to blaspheme the ntcc, but when we ask him for truth and transparency he is under no obligation to account for the truth? Don't call yourself "Standing for the Truth" unless you are willing to stand for it! Do you think standing for Ashmore is really standing for the truth? Do you think standing for the false teacher Meinecke is standing for the truth? What truth is there in telling people that a harvest moon that happens a couple times a year is all of the sudden a "blood moon" that indicates the end of the world is rapidly approaching? If Jesus warned us not to listen to false teachers like Meinecke who point to signs and wonders, what truth are you really standing for if you claim to be standing for Meinecke? Just because some dude puts a camera two inches from his face and doesn't shave for five days and speaks in solemn tones about the blood moon and the end of days, doesn't make him a bastion of truth. You guys are so phony it's unbelievable. "Standing for the truth", what a joke. We are the evil ones for trying to warn people not to fall for another religious ponzi scheme? We are evil to warn people not to follow a preacher who has a history of abuse? We are evil to warn people not to follow someone who will not be transparent or honest about his finances or come clean about the evil deeds he took part in orchestrating in his last sleazy organization? Ashmore shouldn't even be disgracing a pulpit with his history. If he truly repented and made things right with God he would make things right with the hundreds of people he helped destroy and the many families he helped tear apart. Your not standing for the truth, you are standing for a big phony hypocrite that pretends to be something he'll never be.
Awesome comment, Freebird! We are so often expected to let things go and leave these abusive preachers alone, while the victims of their abuse were never given a fair shake. I don't think the ntcc or Jesus Revival Ministries will get the free pass that Davis, Ashmore and others got back in the day, because there is just too much awareness of abuse today. I know a lot of people still blindly follow Ashmore and Kekel and give their money to them, but I would hope that they would have heard through the grape vine about the abuse that was dished out by these predators by now. Hopefully folks will begin to wake up.
ReplyDeleteI just sat through an 18 minute YouTube video of the Blood Moon Prophet. I'm not sure why I chose to torture myself for that long or why I would waste 18 minutes of my life, but I have to say that it reaffirmed my belief that Ashmore and Meinecke are no different than the ntcc whom they now openly rebuke. Meinecke was droning on and on and saying the same things over and over again. The ntcc education he got was shallow at best and like many of the ntcc teachers and preachers often did, Meinecke showed his ignorance while teaching out of 1 Samuel about how When the wolves came and the bears came David was able to fight them off. All through the sermon Ashmore was yelling Amen and Hallelujah but few others seemed to be getting into it. At the end of the sermon, Ashmore started speaking in tounges really loud and than started singing in tounges and someone else started speaking in tounges. I have nothing against speaking in tounges but Paul said in 1 Cor 14:16 "Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest?" Meinecke was 'preaching' a salvation message or at least he was pleading with lost souls to some degree. Nothing like someone singing in tongues really loud without any interpretation to scare off the sinners. It's a big time scam.
ReplyDeleteIt's all the same old stuff. We used to sit through sermon after sermon like that and all the yelling and shouting Amen and Hallelujahs were supposed to keep you through all the abuse while you keep giving your money to the preacher. It sounded so much like a typical ntcc service where most of the people were just enduring the show and couldn't wait for it to end so they could go fellowship somewhere and eat some snacks while gossiping about the people who didn't show up to church. I assume that's what they do, because that's what they did in the ntcc.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeletehow is it false when i have eyewitness and ear-witness proof that i was lied about on the reason I left?
DNA said:
Because the very reason they try to destroy your credibility is for the purpose of restoring their own in the eyes of their followers. When someone leaves for a good reason, it makes the ntcc leadership or local pastor feel the need to project blame onto the parting individual or family. Most people in the ntcc are so brain washed that they don't process the departure of a person or family for themselves. They allow the Pastor to explain it to them and since that pastor is idolized as if he were the man that God chose to represent the Almighty with every word that proceeds from his mouth, everyone in the church believes him and nobody thinks for themselves or tries to figure out what really happened. So all of the brain washed church members believe the lie that their pastor or board leader told them instead of using their own brain and finding out for themselves. This is why the ntcc leadership hates it when you ask questions about people who leave. They don't want you to think about it or process it; they just want you to write their name down on the list as another casualty and label them a reprobate and forget about them for the rest of your life.
For example: Woman leaves well liked ntcc minister because said minister beat and abuse their child and the ntcc leadership treated her like she was the problem while they coddled and promoted the abusive man. The Damage control freaks in the ntcc, immediately start to discredit the wife of said abusive minister by telling the church members that the wife was a disobedient and rebellious God hating woman who fought against her husbands ministry and was a hateful woman who despised God. While the Damage control freaks tear down this woman, they will also build up the abuser by saying, for example: Elliot Gesang has life of service and sacrifice to the Lord and has been a pillar of faithfulness and loyalty. He loves God and souls and is a generous loving perfect wonderful reflection of the Most high Himself. And if that doesn't do the trick, they'll throw in some lies or some suppositions.
In turn, everyone in the church thinks that the wife is a whore and reprobate who hates God, souls and the ntcc, while they think that the abusive jerk is a faithful dedicated man who has given his life to the ministry. That is the power of a public platform. When people gather together to listen to a Man who claims to be God's voice piece and that man and all the leaders who support him speak in unison against a victim of abuse, every single person in the congregation seems to shut off their brain and believe the abuser, every time without fail.
imaskingwhy said,
ReplyDelete"I saw kekel one time back in 80's while preaching he came out of the pulpit and grabbed a brother by the tie and pulled him up and preached to his face and threw him back down into his chair."
Fisher says,
Man, I bet that brother wished, wished, wished that he had worn a clip on tie that day!
I'd rather be a tie hypocrite than a religious Christian-bashing hypocrite like kookel!