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| This X-member of the ntcc has a Little Pep in His Step Because he No Longer Pays His Tithe To Support the One Million Dollar Recreational Vehicles, Quarter Million Dollar McLaren, Sports Cars and Multi-Million Dollar Real Estate Ventures to Include the Exclusive Davis and Kekel Estates That Current ntcc Tithers are Paying For While the Poor Suffer. |
Let's take a look at how the ntcc gets people to believe that tithe is a heaven or hell issue. They don't use the bible; because it is impossible to teach something that is not in the bible. Paying tithe to a New Testament preacher is not in the bible. Every gerah or shekel of tithe that was ever paid or given, that was given according to scripture, was given in Israel. Gentile preachers are not commanded anywhere in the bible to give or pay tithes and never were. So the ntcc has to make you believe that it is God's will for you to pay tithe by twisting existing scriptures or by making you think that God wants you to do it without even reading it in your bible. The latter is what the ntcc specializes in. They manipulate you in your heart and mind in a way that makes it easy for you to believe that God requires something of you that is not in His word. The following is a list of things that the ntcc will say to persuade you that tithe is a practice that God requires:
1. While you were a sinner, you gave 100% of your money to the devil; why is it so hard to give 10% to God?
2. God lets you keep 90%; so why is it so hard to give God His 10%?
3. All Christians "pay" tithes and give in offerings.
4. If you pay your tithe God will recognize this as faith; and one day you will be blessed like the rich ministers in the world that have a lot of nice things.
5. If you don't pay your tithe, you are robbing God. If you do pay your tithe God will open the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing you can not contain. (In order for this Old Testament scripture to work in your life you would have to pay your tithe in Israel to the tribe of Levi which no longer practices or keeps the entire Old Testament law even though the majority have rejected Jesus and do not believe in the New Testament).
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| In the ntcc, you are a Brother if You pay Tithe, and a God Robber if you Don't. Your Eternal Destination Hinges on Who gets to Spend Your Money. |
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| This is How the New Testament Actually Describes Giving |
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| Tithe or Hell Preaching Enables the ntcc to Accumulate Wealth Like this Religious Huckster who Told His Congregation they were God Robbers. |
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| Another ntcc Tithe Preaching Huckster Jacks up his Helper for Singing a hymn that Contradicts His False Tithe Doctrine |
We have covered this subject over and over because it is the most abused doctrine in the ntcc and in a large part of the church world. Kekel, no doubt, doesn't want you to know the truth about tithe; and I'm sure he will try to put in place some measures to control the damage that this does to his bottom line. Every time we hammer on tithe people wake up. The thing is that people do actually believe the bible; but this topic has been misrepresented and twisted by the ntcc over the years. I challenge all those that claim to be bible believing Christians to consider this scripture: John 16:13 "Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth:" Read this blog post and take a close look at what the scripture says. I believe that you will be guided to the truth regardless of what we say or what the ntcc says. Read it and believe it for yourselves. Don't place yourself under parts of the Old Testament law just because some ntcc jerk wants more money and a so-called 'full time ministry'; but let's be honest. Most ntcc so-called full-time ministers are not serving anyone but themselves. They don't need to go full-time so they can serve more people via good works. They just want to go full-time so they don't have to work on a job. The Bible teaches us to provide for our own first. Don't be worse than an infidel that does not provide for his own family. 1Ti 5:8 KJV - But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. It's all so simple. Either believe or don't believe; but at least do your homework first.
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| Your Tithe Dollars Hard at Work will Buy Your ntcc Leadership a Nice Traveling Cathedral-To-Self-Wealth Like This! |
In closing we recently spoke with a relative of a Board Member who has left the ntcc and told us that without a doubt the Recreational Vehicle that Davis used to drive cost one Million Dollars. This person was related to the Board Member that got to drive this same Recreational Vehicle that Davis purchased after he was no longer able or willing to drive it. They stated that they knew for a fact without any doubt that this Recreational Vehicle was a custom made Vehicle with Marble and Granite interior, 3 sliders, A King sized bed and two TVs. We know that Prevost custom makes these same type of Recreational Vehicles or 'Tour Buses' and they cost anywhere from $750,000 to 2 million and up. We figured out that it would take 400 tithe payers one year's worth of tithe with an annual salary of $25,000.00 to pay for one Recreational Vehicle that Davis owned. Just think of how many souls were sacrificed to pay for that unnecessary monument to pride! How many people had to budget their money and eat cheap groceries and sacrifice the futures of their own families so Davis could gallivant across the country on all expense paid vacations that costed even more tithe payers more money and sacrifice. It's pretty sick when you think that this kind of money was accumulated by the ntcc preaching a false tithe doctrine and scaring people into thinking that they would spend eternity in the lake of fire if they didn't pay their tithe. We implore you to read your bibles and stop enabling these ntcc false prophets.
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| A Good Recreational Vehicle Should Always come with the Essentials that Us Tithe Payers Will Never Enjoy, Until We Wise Up! |
We have not personally seen inside Davis's custom Recreational Vehicle but have found some pictures of other Million Dollar RV's that might give you a clue to where your tithe dollars actually go. What? You thought all your tithe was going to the work of the Lord? Puh-leez! Why do you think the ntcc ministers never want to give full financial disclosure? Do you think you would be shocked to learn how much money and real estate the ntcc owns? Do you wonder where your money goes when you see a million dollar R.V. and learn that ntcc missionaries have slept on the floor because they could not afford to buy a bed? Please think about this. Where does the offering money go from those monthly "fellowship meetings"? In the past ntcc tried to claim that the money, sent to Graham, WA, was used to help start new works. Yet we have never heard from a single pioneer minister that has received help from the ntcc to start a work. Hmn. Where did that "fellowship meeting" money go, into another R.V.?
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| My NTCC: This posh R.V. interior evokes images of a casino; for all you know that could be where your ntcc overseer was visiting. Doesn't it Make you mad that you were Played for a Fool and Manipulated to give Thousands of Dollars in Tithe so that Davis and Others could Live in this Kind of Luxury with no accountability? |
Hey Don, yea this subject brings back so many memories of when I wrestled with the tithe issue while I was a innie. First of all let me sound off with, "I am that man"; I read a while back where someone made mention of Tom Wright being a sneakie snake and asking a brother to ask him about tithe, he in turn says "good now I can teach on tithe by saying that folks have been asking about it"- yea that was me back in about 1994 at a fellowship meeting in Pheonix AZ (I was pastoring in Mesa). It was about the same time he claimed to of had a pistol behind the pulpit in case he needed to run off thieves or thugs. I didn't see it put he claimed it was there. When I arrived in Mesa as the new pastor, it was because the old pastor was having financial problems. There electric was off temporarily, no food and barely gas money. I soon was in the same predicament as I attempted to support the church; I had no car insurance, faced an eviction notice with a court date and barely had food to eat. The church bills were paid though. One of my church members who was a ex biker and gotten saved pulled me to the side and said "am I the only one seeing this, the church has your organizations name on it an you can't even get a little help from them". I made a decision to hold my tithe and not pay it for the first time since being a part of the org which at that time was 12 years, just to see what would happen. Not even a few days after it was due I get a call from Mr. Defrancisco, as soon as I said hello he (in his gentle demeanor) says "brother, I noticed your tithe is late, any idea when your going to get that in"?. I said, "well actually I have some questions about tithing into the headquarters church". He said that he would see if Rev Olson would give me a call to try and clear that up. Bottom line is that after years of red flags I finally made a decision to not be owned by a organization that was taking and taking in more ways than one. Guess what the response was from RW Davis?
ReplyDelete"Sir, I will have that pulpit filled before it gets cold". I said OK. Next pastor comes in and leaves due to financial issues as well as the next one after that. To top things off, when I left, I started fellowshipping with two other ministers who had left prior to me, Roxroy Reed and Willie Gordon. both of those ministers shared their story with me. Roxroy Reed was told to leave Tuscon inspite of him having a strong calling to build a church there, so he left the org. Willie Gordon, after building a church in Sierra Vista, I mean literally saving all the money, buying the land and building the church, after that the organization wanted the deed to be in their name and then wanted to move Willie Gordon, he left.
The stories are almost endless and if you are reading this and thinking that we are just making this stuff up, well then, you go right ahead, but one day you will see that this organization is the most selfish and full of pride organization as well as the leadership having a sense of entitlement that is outrageous. I remember kekel boasting how that a homeless man came to the church window at the St. Louis church (the windows that are level with the stairs as you go up the front entrance)and the homeless man asked for money to get something to eat in which kekel simply said something to the effect of "I'm sorry we do not have that type of program here, you will have to go to another church for that". Wow! when I heard that, it so reminded me of that story of Jesus coming to different churches and being asked to leave because of how he was dressed or how he looked. If you NTCC folk want to take your money and give it to a self centered church as this one then guess what, after all the stories and warning of how they mishandle the money and use it for their own gain, you may have to answer for that yourself. I don't know but it is possible simply based on the exposure you have had to the truth. And by the way, back in the day RW use to boast of purchasing those RV from a man named Mr. Thomas down on Lemay Ferry avenue and listen to this, I heard this myself, he would boast of how when his friend Mr. Thomas saw him coming he would drop what he was doing to accomadate him. Why? cuz according to RW, he paid CASH. Now wait a minute, for those 12 years I was instructed to pay cash in tithe and rent money, and church deposits were made in 10K or less to "keep the IRS off our backs". If the current members want to get the attention of the NTCC, well simply withhold your tithe until some financial accountability starts happening.Kekel, Johnson, Olson, defrancisco and any other so called leaders have seen thousands come and go, if you think your special or that they have your back, well think again, trust me- you have a mind of your own or think of your own opinion or better yet just say "I have some questions about the financial accountability of this organization and see how fast they cut your throat by bad mouthing you behind your back and then to your wife as they try to steal her from you while your at work. This org is set up like Amway. You sign up and then you have to sign others up, all with the promise that if your faithful God will bless you. Try not hanging your head in shame as you read of the persecuted church around the world as well as missionaries who have sacrificed with their lives to bring the Gospel to those who never heard. What will be your epitaph? "He supported the religious proud by enslaving the innocent into a system that is more of a family business then a real church". I don't know about you but try reading about real Godly leaders of the past, not Og Mandino, Napoleon Hill or Dale Carnegie but how about Richard Wurmbrand, Noble Alexander and Adoniram Judson to name just a few. You see, if you read Napoleon Hills work you will see a spiting image of how RW use to think. I mean it is great if your trying to run a successful ice cream stand but if you claim to be Gods last hope for a dieing world, well, your kinda not cutting it with pep a rally and spiritual BDSM sessions.
ReplyDeleteI have actually heard ministers say that conference was the most depressing time of the year due to the brown nosers getting all the attention and all you get is a beating and sent back to your boloney sandwiches. I remember, a brother who worked for McDonnell Douglas in St Louis, he made 25 dollars an hr back in 91 and oh how he was esteemed above so many other good faithful brothers like this tall brother named Brother Johnson who month after month would pay his tithe and literaly not have enough money to feed his family or pay car insurance or gas to even get to church and he along with myself and many others get treated like some red headed step child. There are so many examples but I am going to quit for now. Later. Oh by the way, no shame here, my name is Bryan David Hill.
ReplyDeleteThank you Brian, you always leave very insightful comments. Sometimes we don't publish every comment because the only thing some comments do is provoke arguments that take you off track and usually are self serving in nature. If this blog is getting a lot of comments that are thought provoking and contributing to the conversation more people tend to comment. I probably refrain from publishing one comment out of a hundred, lately, but sometimes it's necessary. I hate getting into huge arguments that really don't profit anyone.
ReplyDeleteYou have shared your experiences in the ministry with the ntcc and those types of comments always generate more conversation in the same direction. Our ultimate goal is to help people and in our opinion if we can convince a person to leave the ntcc, that soul has a much better chance at living a peaceful and productive life. Folks in the ntcc seem tormented and miserable. They have a glazed over look of being worn down physically and spiritually. There is really nothing to look forward to in the ntcc. The conferences are dead now and people are used up. What can you do for God when you are so burnt out and worn down? People see that and envision themselves becoming slaves to end up the same way in the ntcc. You work all your life and what do you get? You get to see the fruit of your labor go into someone else's bank account. You get to struggle to survive so that a church leader can ride from city to city in a Recreational Vehicle that costs a million bucks.
Bryan Hill said:
ReplyDelete"Tom Wright being a sneakie snake and asking a brother to ask him about tithe, he in turn says "good now I can teach on tithe by saying that folks have been asking about it"- yea that was me back in about 1994 at a fellowship meeting in Pheonix AZ (I was pastoring in Mesa)."
DNA said:
I remember when Tom and Rachel Wright were in Phoenix, AZ. They were in Korea where I was stationed in Camp Humphreys, near a town call An Jung Ri. I really hit it off well with them and enjoyed the time that I was with them as a church member. We had some memorable times. I also had a Grand Parents that lived in Scottsdale, AZ on the same road where the ntcc church now is on Camelback Drive. I would use them as an excuse to take a few extra days worth of leave to visit with them and the Wrights while I was on leave. It seemed that during that time, they were fallen from grace as board members and were relegated to pastoring a church in a bad section of town. They used the excuse of living in a bad neighborhood to get a dog which was usually forbidden. In those days I was into audio books, because the Wrights liked to listen to them all the time. I figured if they could do it, why couldn't I. My favorite author was Clive Cussler who wrote fiction sea faring adventure novels. They had all the stuff on Audio that you get with TV, only they described the sex scenes verbally instead of having pictures and video. It was all entertainment and the Wrights were into it. When I stopped by his house in Phoenix, he borrowed my Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, the latest edition, hard bound, brand new, the largest book I ever owned, that costed about 30 bucks or more back then. I forgot to get it back from him before I left and later called him and asked if he could bring it and some of the audio books I lent him during the next conference. At the next conference he told me that I never left my concordance with him and that he didn't know what I was talking about. He apologized for forgetting the audio books but I knew I'd never see them again. It really blew me away because I knew for a fact that he had it, but for whatever reason he denied it.
I never held it against him. Previously to all this happening I had left them in Korea on a compassionate reassignment to Colorado, because during conference leave I found out my mother had cancer. The Wrights and the Tiemans were telling me that God wanted me in both their churches and that I was needed in two places at the same time. During that time I was a young E-6 and bringing people to church and paying lots of tithe, over tithe and offerings. When Tom was trying to get me back he was really nice, but when he found out I wasn't coming back he wrote a small letter in which he was upset because the military wanted all their furniture back. I had signed for a bunch of furniture for the home from on base. The home was mostly furnished with military bedroom furniture and other stuff. Tom wanted to know what I was going to do about it, but there was really nothing I could do about it. I never really blamed him for anything and always remained his friend while I was in the organization but after being out, I now realize that the ntcc long time ministers are really self centered and pretty thoughtless. We were conditioned to respect people like Tom Wright and although I have a lot of good memories with the Wrights they are still a big part of an organization that uses people and throws them out with the garbage.
Tom Wright back in the day was good company, I tend to agree. Your experience does seem to lend to the idea that we were really just looked at like tithe payers and not who we were as a whole human being. The hardest part about leaving is losing every relationship as it is sacrificed on the alter of this very selfish organization. They really do turn on you faster than you can shake a stick when you decide to leave or lesser yet, try simply having your own walk with God. I myself was enamored with Richard Blumenthal for many years until my blinded eyes were open. I use to pray before church in an open field outside of the church we used on post at Schofield barracks and he tried on more than one occassion to make me look like a wierdo for walking around in a field by myself. All I was doing was communing with my God and praising him and praying for the lost people I knew. As time went on I began to see that every leader viewed me as less then them. It is to numerous to discuss. But when it came to money, yea, I was only viewed as a tithe payer. Many times Blumenthal would make me responsible for teaching a new person about tithe and usually it was within a few weeks of them coming out. As you brought out, tithe is not a New Testament practice at all. I use to think it was but once I began looking into it, nope, it is not. I really think NTCC is concerned that their real character is being outed here on this web-sight, and this is just a small percentage of the stories. I know dozens of people who have never even been to the site whose stories would blow your mind. Don't get me wrong, I to have some fond memories, but the true colors came shining thru as the years went on. If you could see my life now, I wouldn't trade it for 100 yrs in NTCC. I have read about dozens of other churches on the internet that have the same hierachy of leadership and cult like tendencies that NTCC have and the stories are practically the same. I still can't believe I had to get permission to marry, visit home for Thanksgiving, work at certain places and to fellowship. As you say, I was paying these guys to run my life and they didn't even have to be accountable with my money. We know that is because they consider it God's money and themselves some esteemed servant of God that is somehow better then the common mongrel. Sir, you have taken that position onto yourself as well as your lifestyle of pride and grandeur. You may of started humble and abased way back when, but your Lording it over others is coming back to haunt you and has now come to define you. Don't we all need a trip back to Calvary and a renewing of a right spirit? It seems that daily I entreat God to help me die to self and live more for Him. You can't tell me that the Spirit of God does not deal with the NTCCers about how God is second to the org. God is not religious, he is personal and has a beef with all organized religion. Read Revelation chapter 3 in a new light as He calls them back to a right walk with Him.
ReplyDeleteThe idea that the overall org couldn't show an ounce of compassion is sickening. For all that's been said about your web site the two mansions are quite an intro. It says a great deal about people who are living the high life while others struggle on a daily basis.
ReplyDeleteKekel is a "done" nothing con artist who somehow married the supreme con artist's daughter (also a con artist). Is it any wonder why people wonder out loud what their son is going to be when he grows up?
Wake your sorry butts up people!
I've been hearing grumblings about the last conference... Not sure how true they are but I could see another break coming shortly. If not two or three breaks. I've heard some higher up wives are neck deep in their husbands ears about doing what Ashmore did. Why not?
Taken from the local news paper. A grandson of famed Billy Graham resigned his post atop a prominent south Florida church after admitting to "MORAL FAILURE" the 42, had acknowledge that "his actions disqualify him for continuing to serve as senior pastor or preach from the pulpit, and resigned effective immediately" This guy did the right thing by resigning, unlike the self serving, self center, selfish leaders of ntcc who commit all kinds of "MORAL FAILURES"
ReplyDeleteTaken from the local news paper. A grandson of famed Billy Graham resigned his post atop a prominent south Florida church after admitting to "MORAL FAILURE" the 42, had acknowledge that "his actions disqualify him for continuing to serve as senior pastor or preach from the pulpit, and resigned effective immediately" This guy did the right thing by resigning, unlike the self serving, self center, selfish leaders of ntcc who commit all kinds of "MORAL FAILURES"
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said:
ReplyDelete"I know dozens of people who have never even been to the site whose stories would blow your mind."
DNA said:
You are right about that. For every person who is brave enough to share their life experience on this blog, there are many who wont because they have been beaten down so much and blamed for the wrong doing of others or threatened so much with hell that they are afraid to ever share. God knows. We have barely scraped the surface and enough people have shared things that are blowing minds. We know for a fact that there are people that were raised in the ntcc that suffered abuse but they have not come forward. There are women and children who have been violated but who wants everyone in the world to know? I commend the ones that have come forward because they have dealt with it and found peace in sharing. It's like unloading a bunch of unnecessary weight out of your rucksack in the middle of a 50 mile road march. Some burdens are too heavy to be borne alone. We don't condemn anyone for not coming forward. We understand that people don't want to relive the shame and sorrow. If you are keeping it inside try to find a place to forgive yourself, because it was never your fault. Don't blame yourself for something that was done to you against your will.
Anonymous said:
" God is not religious, he is personal and has a beef with all organized religion."
DNA said:
Although I do feel that there are healthy churches out there, I don't think that the emphasis should not be placed on diving back into a church for the sake of fulfilling the requirement of Heb. 10:25 "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together", but rather to emphasize 2 Pet. 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction." You are better off worshiping the Lord in a small group, even if it is just your family or yourself than you are to place your loyalty into the hands of someone like Kekel and Davis. There are a lot of false teachers and prophets out there and they present much more danger to your soul than trying to force yourself to attend another organized religion that misrepresents God's word. If you are around true believers than don't forsake the assembly but don't replace true believers with peddlers of damnable heresies.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"The idea that the overall org couldn't show an ounce of compassion is sickening. For all that's been said about your web site the two mansions are quite an intro. It says a great deal about people who are living the high life while others struggle on a daily basis."
DNA said:
We have heard that Kekel preaches against our blog and we are pretty sure that he is neck deep in damage control. I can only imagine the things that he says about us. We will probably leave this blog post up for quite a while because it really exposes them for what they are, unless something comes along that is more damaging to them. Anyway, it seems like the more Kekel preaches against the blogs, the more visitors we get. There are a lot of discontented people in the ntcc right now and they have seen Ashmore leave and they know that Kekel, Olson and Johnson aren't any better than Ashmore. No matter what the ntcc does to smear Ashmore, the ntcc members have observed all of them and they know that they are all the same, with the exception that Ashmore has actually done more work than the rest of them combined. I am not condoning anything that Ashmore has done, but when he leaves the ntcc, it is like the United States losing the entire East Coast. Olson, Kekel and Johnson have been sitting on their lazy butts for so long that they wouldn't know what true ministering was if they crawled up next to it and tried to go to sleep. Has anyone ever heard of Johnson doing anything other than touring the U.S. in a Recreational Vehicle? I've never heard of any stories of Johnson or Olson pioneering any churches or laboring in the mission field. Ever since I can remember, Johnson and Olson have always been figure heads. Hearers of the word rather than doers. Lording over others rather than being servants of all. A good phrase would be tithe collectors. That's there function, they do whatever Davis wanted and live off of the tithe of the fleeced ntcc flock. There is nobody qualified in the ntcc to replace Ashmore so I'm sure they are doing as much as they can to assassinate his character. I know Ashmore knows a whole lot more dirty secrets than I do, but he won't share any of them. I wonder why. Maybe they all have dirt on each other and neither side wants to start slinging. Maybe what Julie said was true and they all are trying to hide it. If Ashmore wasn't dirty, I think he'd come clean, but if the ntcc has the goods on him, he's going to continue to say he doesn't know anything. He knows a lot more than I ever knew but if he starts squealing, than Kekel will squeal back.
Anonymous Maurice said...
ReplyDeleteTaken from the local news paper. A grandson of famed Billy Graham resigned his post atop a prominent south Florida church after admitting to "MORAL FAILURE" the 42, had acknowledge that "his actions disqualify him for continuing to serve as senior pastor or preach from the pulpit, and resigned effective immediately" This guy did the right thing by resigning, unlike the self serving, self center, selfish leaders of ntcc who commit all kinds of "MORAL FAILURES"
DNA said:
Very good catch Maurice. It's interesting that Tullian Tchividjian, Grandson of Billy Graham, understands that whatever his actions were, that he is not only disqualified from being a senior Pastor, but that he also feels he should no longer preach from a pulpit. He claims that he had an affair after his wife had an affair. I hope he finds peace and forgiveness. He has a much better chance than the ntcc leaders who continue to defile the ministry. Billy Graham was much more successful than Davis ever was and to my knowledge there were no scandals. Billy Graham's ministry generated billions of dollars through the years but if you look at Billy Graham's house it is half the size of Kekel and Davis's Mansions. Billy Graham is 96 years old and has met with presidents from Harry Truman to Barrak Obama. He was a strong supporter of civil rights and during his crusades from the 50's and later he would tear down the barriers that separated whites from the blacks. He held one crusade in NY city in which 2.3 million were in attendance and he shared the pulpit with Dr. Martin Luther King. Of all the words Graham spoke, I don't think he was ever witnessed using the N word as Davis couldn't seem to refrain from using it. Graham was a registered democrat but often supported republican presidents and seemed to stay fairly neutral in politics. I'm not a big fan of mega churches or Billy Graham but at least he seems to have made responsible choices and appears to have been accountable for his actions. Nobody is perfect but there are many ministers in the ntcc who would never relinquish their pulpit due to an affair. They most likely would run off their wife and remarry someone else's recycled bride.
I would like to ask the ministers that have gone through financial ruin and back: what made you stay and continue to pastor when you knew there was no money and you were going bankrupt.
ReplyDeleteI mean, doesn't a rational person see that there's not enough money coming in to keep a household and a church?
Why would put your family through that?
I'm not finding fault, I'm trying to understand what makes a man or a minister do that.
I've seen ministers that probably aren't called to preach and yet the ntcc sends them out knowing full well that the person is gonna flunk.
Is this organization that wicked because they know that the minister is not bringing enough money to sustain both his household and the church and yet they don't tell the minister: hey brother is time to let somebody else take over you can't do this to yourself and family.
They know how much money you are bringing in because whoever is reading or going thru the minister's report every week has enough sense to do a little math.
Wouldn't this guy go to rw or olson and say : hey this guy is barely making it, maybe he needs to stop until he recovers.
I heard stories about people having to sell all their furniture, people having to live in the church, the list goes on and that is why I'm asking the ministers:
Why do this to yourself?
Good a 3front attack from each blog. Disregard for the poor and the misappropriation of funds is the one issue sheckel cannot spin. ntcc is all about the money because they refuse to be financially transparent.
ReplyDeleteBrother Ken Sunday I was given some ladies a ride home from church, one of them was a new person, and the other Teresa was telling Linda, why she liked our church the reason or one of them is that we only take up one offering and that is on Sunday morning, we do not preach tithe, though some of us do. but people give what they can out of the goodness of there heart. I sat in on a class where the new Pastor was teaching tithe, and not only that he wanted them to pay on there tax return, it brought back memories of the day Davis and I had it out in the office over using people's tax return to get extra money from them for his special offerings, I called another Deacon and I explained to the Pastor that he could not teach a false doctrine, and that God loves a cheerful giver not a person that is being forced to pay tithe. I told him to go back and read 2 Corinthians chapter 9, Now in defense of the new Pastor, and this is his first time being a Pastor he was only going by what he was taught, and one of them was to take up an offering every time the church met. I told him not here we don't, and you will not be allowed either.
ReplyDeleteJim Johnson did visit us up in Alaska. It was kind of funny; no one ever came up here, but then there was this fare price war, and they made a flurry of trips on the cheap. Once we went down to Anchorage to meet with the church there, and were supposed drive back with Johnson, who would preach for us Sunday morning. He tried to leak out! Didn't want to make the drive. Here I'd built him up, telling everyone that "the Man of God" was coming and to get ready for a blessing, only to have him try to bail. I shamed him into it and he reluctantly caved. Then he came to Philadelphia to see us once. He cruised by in his big motorhome, and I drove out of town to meet up with him and his wife. I figured they'd follow me back. Nope. He met with me in the mobile mini-mansion for a few minutes and then informed me he was cruising on down the road. They wouldn't even come visit with my wife. I couldn't fathom that; here we were out in the hinterlands with no fellowship and he couldn't even spare a few hours. Whatever. Of course at that stage I didn't dare think ill of any of the "leaders." You're right about him being a glorified tithe collector. When I was in BS at Forest Avenue in St. Louis, he got up and informed us that every Sunday while we were in Sunday school, he was downstairs counting the offerings and they weren't up to snuff. Then he passed the plate. When it came back, he assessed it and announced that it was insufficient, and sent it around again. I was so brainwashed that I threw in a 20, which represented more than a half day's pay for me back then (even though I was already generous the first time around). What a scam.
ReplyDeleteBilly Graham doesn't stand up to much scrutiny either. He married his 17 year old daughter off to the older son of a Swiss millionaire whom she'd never even met. Later she said that her parents were persuaded that it was "God's will" for her (although they ended up in divorce). Now we have Franklin Graham running the empire, in Kekel-like fashion, and he's a fundamentalist kook. Franky Schaeffer relates as follows:
ReplyDelete"According to newspaper reports (“A Family at Cross-Purposes: Billy Graham’s Sons Argue Over a Final Resting Place,” Washington Post, December 13, 2006), a family feud erupted in Billy Graham’s family over where he and his wife, Ruth, were to be buried. Was it to be in Charlotte, North Carolina, at the Billy Graham “museum” erected in the vicinity of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association headquarters? Or should their remains go to a small private site near their home in Montreat?
Franklin Graham, the 56-year-old “heir” to Billy’s ministry, insisted that the burial spot be at the $28–$30 million, 40,000-square-foot museum. It creates a “farm setting” to look like the place where Billy grew up outside of Charlotte. Other family members—including Ruth Graham—wanted to have a quieter final resting place.
The Washington Post called the family “debate” a struggle worthy of the Old Testament, pitting brother against brother, son against mother. After Ruth’s death, Billy was trapped in the middle pondering what to do with her remains. The Post said Ruth had signed a notarized document with six witnesses, saying she wanted to be buried near her home. After her death her wishes were ignored, and Billy was talked into doing what Franklin wanted.
Ruth (whom I knew and liked and who was close to my mother) was laid to “rest,” against her wishes, in what amounts to an amusement park for the greater glory of—what? Consultants had worked with the Walt Disney Company to create a large “barn” and “silo” as a reminder of Billy Graham’s early childhood on a dairy farm near Charlotte. Today, visitors wishing to visit Ruth’s tomb pass through a 40-foot-tall glass entry cut in the shape of a cross and are greeted by a mechanical talking cow. From there, they walk on paths of straw through rooms of exhibits. At the end, a stone walkway shaped like a cross takes them to a garden where Ruth lies (as will Billy Graham when he dies). The Post also reported that tourists have more than one chance to get their names on a mailing list and later, therefore, to be solicited for funds."
I guess old Billy just manages information better than RW did, because he still has a towering reputation. But what kind of minister would even permit a "museum" to be built glorifying his ministry? Ugh.
"I mean, doesn't a rational person see that there's not enough money coming in to keep a household and a church?"
ReplyDeleteWell, we aren't dealing with rational people. In NTCC, the sky is green if "pasTOR" says so. It's a mind control situation. We never went broke, but that was a miracle; lots of friends did. We did suffer ridiculous deprivations. It wasn't rational at all, but I was definitely "faithful."
Does anyone remember the time when we had to make telephonic contact with our district overseer once a week? Then they started counting pennies by mandating that one week the overseer will call the pastor and then the following week the pastor will call the overseer. This was to ensure the overseer wasn't paying more then his share of long distance phone bill charges. So in a nutshell; org makes rule without consulting the local struggling pastor, rule is one more controlling measure upon the the local struggling pastor, rule benefits everyone except local struggling pastor, local struggling pastor pays have the bill of said rule imposed upon pastor. RW said "it was not fair for the overseer to have to be responsible for all the phone charges and the pastor should help with that burden". Well, if it was an agreed upon exercise, ok, no problem. This was instituted when Mr. Johnson was my overseer. My conversations with Mr. Johnson seemed to be a check the block type situation both on my part and his. It was fruitless, do they still do it?
ReplyDeleteJohnson was my overseer in Alaska and in Philadelphia, but thankfully I didn't have to talk to him every week. They just let us die on the vine back then. I hear you about that "check the box" attitude, though. On one of his trips to Fairbanks, a few minutes after he left for the airport I got a call that he'd forgotten to examine our books. He asked me to bring them to him. So I drove to where he was parked waiting and handed them over. He took a cursory look (about 15 seconds) and that was that. I felt stupid having wasted the time; he obviously didn't scrutinize them in any meaningful way. It was just another hoop he had to jump through for RW, so I had to go through the motions to make that happen.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said:
ReplyDelete"Is this organization that wicked because they know that the minister is not bringing enough money to sustain both his household and the church and yet they don't tell the minister: hey brother is time to let somebody else take over you can't do this to yourself and family."
DNA said:
I don't think they know if anyone is going to fail or not. I think there are times that they intentionally send some abusive jerks in to take over churches that they purposely want to drive into the ground so they can sell the real estate for profit and zero out the escrow funds. They always say, Brother pray about going here or there and that basically means that you should pray about agreeing to go there. If you disagree you'll get jacked up. If you say, I prayed about it and God wants me to go here or there but it's not the same place that Davis told you to pray about, you will get jacked up. It's a little like the Army dream sheets that they would have you fill out to choose which post you wanted to go to. They actually had a form that you filled out in the Army at Basic Training that allowed you to choose the three places you'd like to be stationed for permanent party. My experience was that nobody ever got what they chose. If you chose Hawaii, you'd end up in Korea. If you Chose Ft. Lewis, you'd end up in Ft. Dix, NJ. I don't think I knew one person that actually went where they wanted to go, but they all went where the Army wanted them to go.
When Davis or Kekel or any of those half wit clowns tells you that God wants you to go to Cleveland, OH or Watertown, NY; it's not because God wants you to go there, it's because they want you to go there. It doesn't matter if you succeed or fail in most cases. There probably have been people that they thought would fail who didn't and people they thought would succeed who didn't. The cards are stacked against anyone who pioneers an ntcc church or who takes over a church that is in debt to the leadership of the ntcc. So Davis has a dream and says God wants you to go to Hazard, KY, because he watched the Dukes of Hazard on TV the night before while eating a Pepperoni and Sausage Pizza with extra cheese. Pray about going to Hazard, KY, brother. So you pray about it and since you are willing to go anywhere on God's green earth and you don't want to be the one to tell Davis that he was wrong, you cheerfully except your new assignment. You go to Hazard, KY thinking that God is going to bless you but you really care about souls and don't want to treat people like dirt so you deprive yourself and wife/family of food, adequate shelter and clothing so you can support a church that you have to build on tithe payers. Some fail and some succeed, but it's not because you are any closer or further from God than the next person, it's because time and chance happen to everyone and sometimes it works for some people and other times it doesn't. You are being asked to do something by a man whose only motivation is money and because you think it's God, you get lifted up if you succeed and blame yourself if you fail. The sad thing is that all of you were sent by Davis or Kekel or Olson, but not by God.
The ntcc is a tithe or hell organization and it's foundation is built on tithe payers. Most organizations that have as much real estate as the ntcc, have many more members and fewer tithe payers. The ntcc is built on tithe. If you take away their false tithe or hell doctrine there is no way you are going to build a church without any assistance unless you have church in your house until you have enough supporters to rent or buy a place after a certain level of financial stability is achieved. The ntcc has a very low attrition rate for it's licensed ministers. If you look at how many have been licensed over the years and how many of those who were licensed that are still around, you will find that it's much lower than 10%. Because of this and the demands placed on a minister, they are expected to pedal the same tithe or hell doctrine that was peddled to them. Most of the ntcc ministers don't want to open their eyes to whats really going on in the ntcc because they know without tithe they put themselves at a huge disadvantage in the ntcc. First of all, if the leadership finds you are not requiring tithe or teaching it the way they teach it, you will find yourself in a pickle. You don't have the right to question them on how much is owed on the church building that you are occupying that has been paid off three times over by previous ministers. They need you to be complete idiots so they can continue to take advantage of you. I'm not saying that you are idiots, but that's the way they think of you. You have to buy into their system without question and undying loyalty. You are probably smarter than the average person and under extreme pressure you have put something together that resembles a body of believers but just think what you could do if you weren't compelled to run your church like a boot camp for the unlearned and easy to be manipulated hopefuls.
ReplyDeleteBro. Ken said:
ReplyDelete"it brought back memories of the day Davis and I had it out in the office over using people's tax return to get extra money from them for his special offerings,"
DNA said:
Pop Gaylord came through Ft. Bragg and I popped the question about paying tithe on tax returns. I wasn't a math wizard but I knew that I was paying well over the bi-monthly amount and Medrano was preaching that your tax return was an increase, therefore you should pay taxes on it. He no doubt had learned this from Davis. Pop said why would you pay tithe on a refund that you got from money you already paid taxes and tithe on? I learned that day that there were some things that the Gaylords taught that conflicted with Davis's teachings. Some folks would pay tithe on their tax returns because they were taught that if they received blessings that they didn't want to get caught being over weight when the rapture took place. How stupid. That was never taught in the Old Testament, how dumb and gullible do you have to be to believe that God expects you to pay tithe on every Pepsi someone gives you or every ear of corn you eat. That's preposterous! Do you think David paid tithe when he was in exile running for his life from Saul? Do you think Jeremiah paid his tithe and back tithe for the time he was in prison? What about when Israel was in captivity? There is no record of anyone paying tithe or being commanded to pay back tithe in those circumstances. All you ntcc'rs have been had. You are the butt end of a big scam and as long as you go along with it, the ntcc will be glad to take your money. Do you think they are spending it in accordance to God's plan for His people? Do you think God told Davis to buy the a rolling cathedral so he could spread the Gospel? Coerce 400 people to pay tithe for one full year so you can gallivant across the country enjoying life while they all say Praise God, look how the man of Gawd is blessed! Give me a break! That's not Christianity. These people are blatant thieves and brazen crooks and con artists. They care nothing about you and they will continue to fleece you and your flock as long as you let them.
St Luois use to open their doors on Friday night for the sole purpose of us common laberors to bring in the tithe off our freshly cashed checks we earned while working on a job. I think we had prayer meetings on that also, but the office downstairs was opened for our tithe. I heard it said one time that it was "just in case you died and had to meet God before Sunday morning came around or Saturday night student ministers night and why would you want to hold on to God's money anyway"? Always playing psycho babble sneakie snake word games by insinuating that we had a heart problem for even questioning the extra effort to get that money to the church fast. I still have a New Testament Church of God tithe envelope in a chest in the garage, its empty, there is nothing in it. In spite of NTCC elite telling me that they feared for me and what God would do to me for leaving back in 1994, I mean they made it sound like God was literally going to strike me dead maybe that day even. Well here I am 20 years later still praying and reading my bible and loving God with all my heart, alive, happy and successful. Bless there thumpin gizzard anyway. Bryan David Hill
ReplyDeleteBryan, something about this post touched me deeply. I prayed for you right after I read it. I left NTCC also and have experienced similar treatment. I just wanted to say "God Bless You!" And its inspiring to hear how you did not allow your negative experience hurt your walk with God.
DeleteBryan Hill said:
ReplyDelete"St Luois use to open their doors on Friday night for the sole purpose of us common laberors to bring in the tithe off our freshly cashed checks we earned while working on a job. I think we had prayer meetings on that also, but the office downstairs was opened for our tithe."
DNA said:
They had to have a mandatory function to get you into the church so they could get your tithe money. What better function to have than a prayer meeting. I'm sure they were looking after your best interest all week long as they told you to make sure you cashed your paycheck after you got it on Friday and before you came to prayer meeting. After all they wouldn't want you to be one paycheck over weight when the rapture took place. Did you expect God to look the other way after you committed such a grievous sin as you being a day late on your tithe? What if you died in a car accident on your way to prayer meeting with God's money still in your pocket? You God robber, you should have not been in such a hurry to make it to prayer meeting. Now you'll have to spend eternity in the lake of fire because it's always your fault not theirs. If you pay your tithe with a money order and it bounces you better find a way to make it right before you die and go to hell. I wonder what people from normal healthy churches think when they stumble across this blog and read stuff like this. They must think that the ntcc leadership are a bunch of certifiable nut cases that need to be put behind bars. I mean what is the big hurry and why are they so hell bent on getting your tithe as soon as your check is cashed? Is it really because they are worried about your soul? Why is there so much pressure? I can assure you it isn't Devenshire or any of the previous St. Louis pastors that initiate these programs. This is duplication and it is taught across the ntcc in all the Servicemen's Homes and churches. The local pastors don't pressure their congregations, usually, but this is learned behavior. Davis teaches this stuff and overseers enforce it and everyone else jumps through hoops to make it happen. So who is really after your money? Why would Kekel or Olson or anyone need it so fast. They know that the longer a person goes without paying their tithe, the higher the risk of them skipping a tithe payment. They need the river of money to continually flow into Graham to maintain their pompous and magisterial life styles. So the burden is on you to help them make their quotas. It's your fault if you don't pay your tithe on time for Kekel so Tanya can order those brand new $5,000.00 curtains she special ordered for their mansion. So is it really God that is so impatient to get His hands on your money or is it Kekel? Kekel spends the majority of your money so lets not be too naive about this. I'm sure Kekel learned it from Davis and keeps the pressure dialed up. After all, it's Kekel's lifestyle that you are interfering with if you are late on your tithe, Not God's.
Bryan Hill said:
ReplyDelete"I heard it said one time that it was "just in case you died and had to meet God before Sunday morning came around or Saturday night student ministers night and why would you want to hold on to God's money anyway"?"
DNA said:
This is how they enforce tithe since they have no scriptures to support it. They have to use threats of hell and hope you believe the assumption that 10% of your money is their money even though they call it God's money. They all should be behind bars. They aren't spending your money on the work of the Lord.
Jas. 5:4
"Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth."
Those who have done all the work and labor, the ones that have mowed down your fields for you ntcc leaders are crying. While you have fraudulently used tithe as a vehicle to steal their money, you laugh at them for being your fools. But that's okay, because you are not going to get the last laugh. Their cries are being heard by someone greater than you. So go to, weep and howl for the miseries that shall come upon you. It's no secret anymore. You might still reign over some week minded souls and a few corrupt power hungry local pastors that in it for money and numbers but the entire ministry of the ntcc is nothing but a big sham and more and more people are finding this out. The more you tell them to stay off the blogs, the more they are visiting. The more you lie to them and tell them that their money is going into the work of God, the more people are waking up and discovering that you are running nothing more than a big religious ponzi scheme and the only ones that benefit from it are the ntcc leadership. You will find a lot more in the bible about the rich and how they are despised by God than you will about paying tithe in cash on paydays. So keep escorting your church members to that ATM machine when they get home from work on payday so they can continue to contribute to your lavish lifestyles. You hypocrites and false teachers. You don't care about anyone going to heaven. You are liars and scam artist and filthy lucre is all you care about. Spend it now while you can because where you are going it's going to do you no good. You preach hell to people so they will pay you money but if you believe in the hell you preach you better hope that God doesn't hold you doubly accountable for lying to unstable souls. You tell your members to obey you because you have to give account for their souls and then you force them into a life of poverty so you can be a full time what? You don't think that God sees where all the money is going? You don't think that same God who inspired Jesus, Peter, James and Paul to warn the rich of the error of their ways sees you twisting the scriptures to get them to pay tithe while it gets spent by Mike and Tanya on a bunch of useless luxury mansions, cars, RV's, Home furnishings, Rolex Watches, gifts for the board members and vacation expense accounts for the traveling snake oil salesmen that masquerade as ministers of the gospel, while everyone trapped in their scam suffers and struggles through life trying to pay bills and pay tithe; you don't think this same God sees what's going on in the ntcc?
Bryan Hill said:
ReplyDelete"In spite of NTCC elite telling me that they feared for me and what God would do to me for leaving back in 1994, I mean they made it sound like God was literally going to strike me dead maybe that day even. Well here I am 20 years later still praying and reading my bible and loving God with all my heart, alive, happy and successful. Bless there thumpin gizzard anyway."
DNA said:
I'm glad you are still here and living your life for God. I left in 96, almost 20 years ago. We wasted a large portion of the best years of our lives in the ntcc. I know that If Ange and I had stayed in the military and had half of the concern for our own futures that we showed for the ntcc, we would have both retired and we would be drawing pensions, probably as Warrant Officers in the flight program. Just think of what two people retired at the age of around 40 could do for God being retired from the military and having joint pensions and benefits. We both had very good futures before us until we allowed these liars and crooks to interfere with our lives. The same way victims of abuse blame themselves and say they allowed things to happen, we all ignorantly allowed bad things to happen to us in the organization. It can happen to anyone, and you have to look at the ntcc as predators and it's members as victims, you can see the true nature of the ntcc leadership. They say it's all about souls, but it's really about a pride of hungry lions looking for the weakest prey that they have the best chance of devouring. They comb the military installations across the country looking for wounded people with broken lives. They hunt down the weakest and loneliest souls who are searching for God and they find them before they can get to a safe place and they isolate that wounded person from the ones that would love and protect them so they can move in for the kill. They totally devour people and when they are done with them they leave their carcasses in the wilderness to rot in the sun. They got what they wanted out of you and could care less if you die. Some of us escape in time but we were broken and wounded and still trying to heal. It takes a long time and it helps to know God. I'm extremely grateful to the Lord for all He's done for us. I don't want to come across as religious because I understand that people are fed up with that, but I hate to think of what I'd become if I would have stayed in the ntcc and if I didn't have God's love.
I remember rw teaching at the conferences that the pastors didn't want to let their members go to bible school and the servicemen too.
ReplyDeleteHe would tell the pastors that if they didn't send them to bible school they were gonna loose them anyways to the world!
There were lots of people that lost out on continuining their careers because they were spiritual forced into joining the bible school.
If they wanted people in their school why didn't they go out and recruited them themselves, but no, because it's beneath their call to go out and soulwin. They have "more" important things to do.
Like online shopping!
On top of all the other offerings, what was the purpose of the Sunday Night Budget Offering?
ReplyDeleteYea if you take up a Sunday morning offering why take up a Sunday night offering?
ReplyDeleteGreed.
DeleteThat budget offering was supposedly to pay the church bills. Why they needed a separate offering for that is a mystery. RW taught us that a "successful" church should be able to pay the church rent from the Sunday School offering, if memory serves.
ReplyDeleteVic that is exactly what he taught that offering one should paid the rent. Reality for many was all the offerings conbimed couldn't pay the church bills.
DeleteI maybe wrong but I remember that the only time overseers came around was when the evangelistic fund had 500 or more. I'm not kidding!
ReplyDeleteWhen I look back it seemed that rw would send the people supposedly where God told him to but now I bet it was the other way around.
At that time you were only allow to give the overseer 500 dls. period. No more no less.
What a sham!
Only time we ever had an evangelist it was JR Ashmore. He got $1,100+ from the evangelistic fund plus the offerings. I knew an evangelist who told me that the pastor of a church where he was preaching told him after a few days of revival that RW's instructions were to cut him off. I guess how much you got depended on who you were.
ReplyDeleteHeard from a source (could be wishful thinking of course) that a top guy in the church is planning a break. Could be months before we learn who it is as I'm sure he's stockpiling money or people to start another church. Of course Kekel is the reason people are leaving as no one wants to follow that incompetent moron.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure there are all kinds of deals being made for the higher ups to stay and not rock the boat but who could follow that guy and not come to the conclusion they, themselves could start a better church. Ashmore, Dennis, and Curry have all ventured out on their own. Unfortunately I don't have the name of this next person to break but I'll keep you posted when/if they do.
Wrecking Ball7
I wonder if what gave Kekel his great start with RW was that 25K offering he gave back when he was in the Army. I got a tape called "IS THERE NOT A CAUSE" by RW himself where he preached about David and Goliath and then took up offerrings kinda like a fund raiser. This young man named Mike Kekel stood up and gave his life savings. Admittedly, he seemed sincere, but I do wonder if it was that big offerring and pliability that made RW zero in on him and allow him to date his daughter as well as keep him close to his side? I do not know, but looking back at how RW prooved to be, it does seem very possible.
ReplyDeleteTHE BOOK OF TITHE
ReplyDelete1. Rodger Davis, a self appointed Super Apostle of the ntcc, with Mike Kekel called to be an administrator, to the ntcc churches in the U.S. and scattered abroad:
2. I can't remember the last time I sinned, so take heed unto the words of this epistle.
3. For there are some that have not paid all of their tithe and others that have been late;
4. Beware of God Robbers who are lurking among you, who take care of their families, and buyeth quality groceries with their wages while the men of Gawd struggle to get to the next town in their 1 million dollar rolling cathedrals of self wealth.
5. Doth not the scripture entitle the New Testament Christian preacher to a bigger piece of the pie?
6. Therefore bring thou all of thy tithes and offerings in the form of 10% cash, before thy Uncle Sam gettest his portion, and thy Sunday School Offerings, and thy Sunday morning service offerings, and thy Sunday night budget offerings, and thy Tuesday evening bible study offerings, and thy Thursday evening offerings, and thy Evangelistic fund offerings, and thy Saturday evening offerings, and thy escrow fund offerings into the storehouse of Gawd, that our Recreational Vehicles, Mercedes Mclaren and Cadillac gas tanks may be full and there may be plenty left for thy overseers in Graham, Washington, and we will promise you that he will pour out a blessing that you can not contain.
7. Be thou a good steward and pay what thou owest to God on time, for if thou failest to do this, thou shalt split hell wide open. God needeth your money as soon as it's paid to you and thou owest it to me just as you owest yourselves to me, and if you are late thou shalt be overweight and thou shalt not enter into heaven overweight.
8. When thou payest thy tithe make sure thou payest it in the house of the Lard that you get spiritually fed in for thou certainly knowest that you don't order a Big Mac at McDonalds and pay for it at Burger King;
9. With the exception of the Military as soldiers who goeth over seas shall leave their checkbooks with many signed blank checks so the pastor can deposit thy tithe in the bank on time, even though that soldier is being fed by a Chaplain. All doctrines not approved by the ntcc are of the devil and thou shalt only pay tithe to the tribe of the ntcc.
10. All Pastors will do everything within their power to collect our tithe money in a timely fashion.
11. If thou Pastorest a large church, thou shalt instruct thy tithe payers to cash their paychecks and come straight to the church for a prayer meeting where thou shalt stop by the office with thy cash and give it to the minister who feeds thee thy spiritual blessings, so there may be meat on his table, or the restaurant that he and his wife will feast at after all of the tithe paying suckers have prayed through and gone home.
ReplyDelete12. If thou Pastorest a Servicemen's home thou shalt escort that full grown Man or woman who lay thier lives down to defend thy country, to the closest ATM so that thou mayest be present when the money is spit out of the ATM machine, and thy money grubbing fingers can snatch their cash away from them immediately.
13. If thou art in a Civilian work thou shalt brow beat thy church members all week long and have them bring their tithe to you as soon as they can get to the local pawn shop to cash their small checks. If their oil puking junker breaks down thou must be close to a phone so when that sorry late tithe paying scoundrel calleth thee, thou canst call a responsible brother to use his gas to pick up the God robber and get him to the church so he can pay his tithe to the pastor that lives in the church and pray that God forgives him at the same time.
14. If any man questions thou about tithe, we have no such custom of arguing about tithe. Thou shalt not open thy bibles to defend tithe, because there is not one scripture that supports it, but thou mayest show them this supplement to the bible called the Book of Tithe, by Super Apostle R-Dub Davis. Wink, Wink! (there is no actual scripture, we just scare them with hell, fire and brimstone.)
15. Thou shalt say, "All Christians pay tithe and give in offerings", before each collection that is takeneth upest.
16. Thou shalt send all church tithe and pastor's tithe to Graham along with thy real estate payments and any other money that we feel entitled to. Be thou thankful that you have rich overseers that care enough about you to allow you to be a part of such an spiritual organization.
17. If any man be not a believer in tithe let that man be as a reprobate to thee and rebuke him publicly that others may fear. Call not that man a brother but admonish him at times as if he were a red headed step child and maybe he will change his ways.
18. If any man choose to pay his tithe he is a brother and thou shalt love bomb him or her until the hook is swallowed and the Sucker is reeled in.
19. All our overseers shall salute all the tithe payers and collect their tithe in their rolling cathedrals.
20. Tanya and Verna salute you as they shop at Nordstroms with your tithe money.
21. Be strong in the Lawrd, and continue to tithe least I should come in Gawd's wrath and bewail many that have robbed from us, I mean Gawd. Pray without ceasing that thy money will soon be in our bank accounts as you and your family struggle and eagerly await our next conference.
22. Grace and peace go with you and remember "All Christians pay tithes and give in offerings". Amen
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI wonder if what gave Kekel his great start with RW was that 25K offering he gave back when he was in the Army. I got a tape called "IS THERE NOT A CAUSE" by RW himself where he preached about David and Goliath and then took up offerrings kinda like a fund raiser. This young man named Mike Kekel stood up and gave his life savings.
DNA said:
It sounds like Davis pimped out his teenage daughter to the highest bidder.
Wrecking Ball7 said:
ReplyDelete"Heard from a source (could be wishful thinking of course) that a top guy in the church is planning a break. Could be months before we learn who it is as I'm sure he's stockpiling money or people to start another church."
DNA said:
Great! Keep us posted. Hopefully whoever it is takes a bunch with him. It would be great to see all of those people set free. Hopefully all the rich tyrants left holding the bag will be brought to justice.
Vic Johanson said...
ReplyDeleteOnly time we ever had an evangelist it was JR Ashmore. He got $1,100+ from the evangelistic fund plus the offerings.
DNA said:
I believe that Ashmore left the ntcc a rich man, and he definitely isn't struggling now in San Diego. He seems to be a liar because he said he knew very little about the financial matters of the ntcc, yet his name has been signed on just about every shady deal made by the ntcc back in the day. I think in the long run that many people will have departed the ntcc because of him leaving and they will hopefully find their freedom, so I'm sure some good will come out of it.
Preachers make a lot of money. 11 hundred for a few hours of preaching is pretty good, even if he had to buy plane tickets out of it back then. I've heard that overseers are taken care of fairly well in the ntcc. They don't have to pay rent, some are allowed to stay for free in really nice houses/mansions. Their RV's are free and they get plenty of vacation time while living large. I'm sure over the years, Ashmore accumulated a pretty nice chunk of money for a nest egg. With Davis gone, and Kekel running the show, I'm sure Ashmore saw that as his big chance to get his turn at bat in the big leagues.
R-dubs answer to everything was, "Take up another offering". It seems every time there was a problem that had to do with church repairs or finances, the answer was to add another church service or hit your money drained church members up for some more money. I'm not sure if I ever seen a church actually spend any of the escrow money that was saved for years. Just out of curiosity is there anyone out there that has any knowledge of escrow money ever being spent by the local church, or do the escrows all get divied up by Kekel or Davis between the Overseers? Maybe that's one reason that Ashmore doesn't know anything about the finances, because he was part of the fraud that took place among overseers.
ReplyDelete"You see, if you read Napoleon Hills work you will see a spiting image of how RW use to think."
ReplyDeleteNot really. RW was just a wannabe. Napoleon Hill actually taught that freely helping others constitutes a vital element of personal success and is part of the formula which brings it about. I read a bunch of his stuff after I learned that RW was using it in the Advanced School of Theology. RW just plagiarized (as was his habit) what he wanted to emphasize (and that sure wasn't helping others). Napoleon Hill wasn't preaching any gospel (by his own admission he didn't believe in God, and he was also an occultist who claimed to have been chosen for his mission by the Ancient Masters, 10,000 year-old beings who lived in the Himalayan mountains, traveling by astral projection and communicating via mental telepathy), but he did promote many sensible and even admirable strategies. However, helping others, unless he somehow gained from it, was alien to RW's way of thinking. If a preacher ever really tried to institute Hill's methods, RW would have totally jacked him up. And if a preacher did heed Napoleon Hill, he would never submit to the pathological control NTCC imposes. So we definitely got a watered down version.
Vic, i agree with you on your points, however, when you look at the master mind theory and the massive self effort involved in "God's business" as well as the fact he used his "Laws of Success" as the bulwark of his "Advanced School of Theology", I could not help but see some real coralations. My use of "Spitting image" to describe should say something to the effect of "You see, if you read Napoleon Hills work you will see how RW used another mans work on humanism mixing it into a performance based religion."
ReplyDeleteThink about this termonology; Napoleon Hills "Laws of Success" was used as bible for the "Advanced School of Theology"
Advanced School of what?????? Theeeeoooooolooooogggyyyyyyyyyyyyy.
And who knows what RW believed privately as it pertains to the weird stuff in Napoleons writings.
Don, can you open up for your next subject the subject of how shallow the NTCC college is? Believe it or not I still have my Bible School notes and am reading each page before throwing it away. I am finding that the "verse by verse" commentary given by the teachers really seems shallow. It goes something like this:
ReplyDeleteMatthew 4:18 "And Jesus, walking by the sea of Galilee, saw two brethren, Simon called Peter, and Andrew his brother, casting a net into the sea: for they were fishers".
August NTCC college teacher; "Here we see Jesus walking along the shore of Galilee with Simon and Andrew".
YEA! NO DAH! Einstein. And it is practically every verse this lack of depth slaps you right across the face. I know the teachers were limited in what they could teach but the pure shallowness of this "college" or "seminary" is staggering. You would get more depth out of a Bible study at a charismatic worldly church or a Batist church.
How is it now? is it any better?
John made it plain when he said in 1 John 4:6 "Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error." Verses 7-21 were all talking about Love. If we love one another we love God. How do you love somebody when they give money and hate the ones who don't? Why do you treat tithe payers like brothers and non tithe payers like evil step children? How many people has Kekel turned away, saying be ye warmed and filled? Love is not a respecter of persons. Some people would show more love to a stray dog or cat than they would to a homeless person or even to a brother in the ntcc. I've seen pastors and their wives in the ntcc publicly make fun of brothers, gossip about them, and run them down because they don't live in the Servicemen's home or they don't bring anyone out to church, or they are still attached to the umbilical cord because they want to have a natural and normal relationship with them by honoring and loving them. The ntcc makes it all out to be an ultimatum. Who do you love more, God or your parents? If you love God you will not go home on leave. If you love God you will do this or that and they take every bit of freedom to that you have to show your love to others or God. They command you to do things and tell use fear to manipulate you to show false love. Perfect love is nothing like the mandatory love that you are required to show as a public display which in the ntcc usually involves money.
ReplyDeleteVic said:
ReplyDelete"Napoleon Hill wasn't preaching any gospel (by his own admission he didn't believe in God, and he was also an occultist who claimed to have been chosen for his mission by the Ancient Masters, 10,000 year-old beings who lived in the Himalayan mountains, traveling by astral projection and communicating via mental telepathy), but he did promote many sensible and even admirable strategies."
DNA said:
Is this troubling to anyone else or is it just me? I'm sure the Anti-Christ is going to have some sensible and admirable strategies, but do we really want to take their teachings and use them as advanced training for preachers? I understand the value of positive thinking and such, but plagiarizing the teachings of someone who get's his messages from 10,000 year old beings who channel their thoughts by astral projection is really out there. I'm actually dumbfounded by this. Kekel was so quick to label Bruce Smith as "Ramtha Man" for his views and used his religion to tear him down and convince others that he was a nut case so that people would be distracted from all the facts that were presented in The Mountain News. All the while, Davis is teaching people word for word from a source less plausible than Bigfoot or Frankenstein.
But if you teach children about Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny you are going to hell. The ntcc is a total and complete scam. Davis was no more a Christian than a dead roadkill skunk on the side of the road. That's like teaching Louis Farrakhan's vision where he was taken up to a big wheel in the sky and told to prophesy against President Reagan. This show's you how gullible Farrakhan's followers are and how Gullible Davis's followers are. Davis had some pretty wild Pizza Dreams himself. Most people don't really know this stuff and much of it is kept from them or they would be ashamed to be a part of it, or to naive to care.
ReplyDeleteDaniel Boone said...
ReplyDeleteDon, can you open up for your next subject the subject of how shallow the NTCC college is?
DNA said:
I'll consider that, even though I never went to ntcc BS and don't know a whole lot about it, other than what's been shared. I do know that everyone tries to emulate Davis and he seems to be the most morally corrupt hypocrite in the history of the ntcc. For now, we'll let this post run it's course and if your topic weighs heavy on my heart and I feel like I can write a blog post about it, than we'll run with it. I do appreciate the topic suggestion. I know we have been hammering on tithe a lot lately, but I think even though it's repetitive, it's necessary.
I can't remember if it was this thread or the last one that talked about insurance. When I married my ex I found that he took out an additional life policy of $30,000 in addition to his G.I. life policy. I was appalled when I saw the benificiary was NTCC not his parents! I asked him why he did that and he said it was because his parents would just use it for wordy needs and NTCC would use it to get more people to heaven. He had been encouraged to do so by his pastor.
ReplyDeleteThe insurance was quickly changed from NTCC to me and his parents 50/50. He changed it back to NTCC cause "God told me too" aka pastor. I had him change it back to me and his parents. I would do monthly checks to assure it didn't get changed back to NTCC. I also told the pastor that he was being inappropriate and I would report him to the post commander since I figured all those other G.I.s took out extra life insurance and had their military life insurance naming NTCC benificiary.
Life insurance was okay so long as NTCC is the benifactor.
ReplyDeleteThere was this man in mike Marshall's church who was indecisive about reenlisting or going to bible school.
Of course Marshall wanted him to go to bible school but the man wasn't sure.
Around this time the man's mom died and left him an inheritance and probably it was a good chunk of money because rw told Marshall to have this man attend the graham church immediately no questions asked.
Whatever excuse Marshall gave this guy for transferring him to the graham church, who knows.
We didn't understand why this guy disappeared from the servicemens home but later on they said that he was in graham. Now looking back you can put two and two together and it was all about the inheritance money.
Later on mike Marshall said that they were affraid that this guy was gonna lose out with God and leave church because he had all that money.
We did a blog post about a house that Davis inherited. I think we entitled it: "Grant's Land" because we or someone found a deed online that said the house was going to Grant Kekel whenever Davis died. I'm sure the lady that gifted the house to Davis thought that it was going to the work of the Lord, and probably would roll over in her grave if she knew that it was going to Davis's sinner grandson. There is no telling what kind of 'ungodly filth' is going on in Grants land as he sows his wild oats. If you are stupid enough to name the ntcc as a beneficiary on any type of life insurance policy or will of trust, don't be dumb enough to believe that your life's savings or estate is going to go towards the work of the Lord. It's going into the hands of religious sinners who will defile it in ways you never thought possible. Anyway, all we can do is warn you and you if you read this you can't claim ignorance.
ReplyDeleteI went to AST, and read lots of Napoleon Hill. Still have his books lying around here someplace. He's a typical New Thought proponent. RW ridiculed his claims regarding the ether, and focused on his teachings on "success" (although he did omit that part about freely helping others). Yeah, I thought it was real weird that in a putative study of advanced theology the focus was on making money. It was almost all RW talked about there. Even then I was disappointed. Despite the secular nature of his philosopy, I got way more out of reading Napoleon Hill for myself than listening to RW's interpretation. At least Napoleon Hill wasn't trying to scam people, and the wheat to chaff ratio is high. I can't blame him for rejecting the gospel based on his experience with professing Christians of the RW variety. He had better values than most of them, so what was there to attract him?
ReplyDeleteThe "college" (seminary?) is shallow. I had a few good classes but most of it was just boring as hell. When I taught there I did my best not to regurgitate the same crap I was force fed, but it's not like I was equipped either, and working on a job and keeping up with the insane schedule made it difficult. But I studied hard and tried not to be one of those teachers students tried to avoid because the classes were a total waste of time.
I've still got a box of notes too; one of these days I'll pull them out and we'll all have a good laugh.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"Later on mike Marshall said that they were affraid that this guy was gonna lose out with God and leave church because he had all that money."
DNA said:
The god of the ntcc was a very weak god. The ntcc leadership always had concerns about a person if they had lots of money or were part of a rich family. People don't just get rich, they know how to manage their money and they instill those values in their children. Not all rich kids are raised with Christian values but the majority of them are taught to recognize scam artists when they see one. I never knew anyone who was rich to make it in the ntcc, because the ntcc usually drove them off trying to get their greasy paws on their money. Most of the people I knew in the ntcc came out of broken families and had a lot of baggage and that's me included. People with broken lives are much easier to manipulate because they blame themselves rather than others, and when you match up a broken person with a narcissistic tithe or hell preacher it creates the perfect storm. Let's face it, do you know anyone in the ntcc that really enjoyed all of their years and all of what they went through in the ntcc? The ones that are still in will lie and say everything is wonderful, but when someone like Kekel or Olson pushes the wrong button they will get offended and the vale will be lifted from their eyes and they will refuse to be used for the rest of their life and they will leave. Then if you ask them how their experience was in the ntcc they will say it was like a severe storm the whole time. The reason I was able to stay in for 13 years as a GI was because I made good money and I freely gave it to them. I really thought it was going towards the work of God. I had no idea that they were living lavish lifestyles off of our money and I didn't realize that our money was supporting them, rather than lost souls. We didn't really have the internet back then, and I wasn't around Washington enough to realize how the elite leaders of the ntcc lived. The ntcc ministers knew how to get money out of GI's like me. I was their best friend and got along with most of them really well. I guess I blamed myself for everything I suffered in the ntcc and tried to make up for it by giving. That only works for a while. It feels good at first when you drop a couple thousand on some preacher who seems appreciative, but in the long run you struggle financially like everyone else. There is nobody better at knowing how much you can give than an ntcc preacher. Whenever you start getting ahead, all of the sudden there is a need. That need is presented as if God Himself came down to heaven and spoke to that pastor. In turn the struggling church schlubs all feel like they have to give because all of their money belongs to God and even though God lets you keep 90% of it, He will pour out his blessings from heaven on you if you just dig a little deeper and give for this one more cause. But it never ends. I was always broke in the ntcc. There were times I had to borrow money to make ends meet and I was an E-6 with over 14 years time in service when I got out. I destroyed my own career to severe ties completely with the ntcc. I knew as long as I was in the Army and on a military installation that there would be people knocking on my door trying to drag me to church. As awful as it may sound it was one of the best things I ever did, because I needed a decade or more to clear my mind from all the years of manipulation and indoctrination. It's a shame that I wasted so many years in the Military and was only 7 years from retirement when I departed, but I got my soul back. I was no longer under someone else's thumb and the freedom was priceless.
They always said you were going to lose out with God because of this or that. They discouraged you from going home on leave because the devil would use your wicked satanic family to pull you away from the ntcc. Their god wasn't big enough or strong enough to keep you. I went home on leave against Cyrius's wishes but I came back and ended up drinking their Koolaid for 13 years. If you went to the post chapel and attended a chapel service, it was like spitting in your ntcc pastor's face and you could be sure that your little escapade to the post chapel would become the topic of the next service you attended. If you went to the field a lot for military training and were away from the church, the ntcc's god would have a really hard time keeping you, because you would be away from their manipulative influence. In fact anything that pulled you or your money away from the ntcc was considered a huge threat to that ntcc pastor who needed your undivided attention so he could manipulate you and instill fear in you through his preaching. It takes some people a few months to a year to fully swallow the hook and be lucky enough to be put on a stringer. That's fishing terminology for those who aren't familiar. Once you are reeled in they yank the hook out of your throat and put a stringer through your gills so you can't swim away. They have you right where they want you. In the ntcc that's about all you have to look forward to. You will always be strung along with a bunch of other Christian fish until you are thrown back. Hopefully there is still life in you when you leave. Most people at that point are too tired to fight and live the rest of their lives blaming themselves for swallowing that hook.
ReplyDeleteI remember being told (by Blumenthal)that I could be one tomato to heavy for the rapture if I ate a tomato from my wife's all you can eat salad bar that I was paying for. I'm serious.
ReplyDeleteAlso heard RW say that if you are looking at the sisters on the other side of the church and the rapture took place that we would miss out and split hell wide open.
We got married in September of 1983. In October, we left for Fairbanks. Before we left, I told RW I wanted to go see my parents and let them meet Edna. He gave me his famous scowl and told me "do what you want to do." We all knew what it meant when he said that because he had told us. He told us that if he ever used that phrase, it meant that he knew we were going to whatever we wanted anyway so he wasn't going to waste his breath trying to talk us out of it. It was a brilliant preemptive manipulatory technique allmost guaranteed to get us to subordinate our own wills to his. Of course after he said that, there was no way I was going anyplace but straight up here, and that's what I did. We were both really alienated from our families for many years because of the destructive influence of the borg.
ReplyDeleteIsolation is an almost universal cult tactic, and RW did his best to control our relationships and the information to which we had access. The internet has made it more difficult, which is why they have to browbeat people not to "have a Pepsi with the devil" on these blogs. They know the truth is the most potent threat they face and will do their best to suppress it.
Spilt hell open, for looking at the sisters on the other side? Well, kekel paid twenty-five thousand dollars for the right to fondle davis underage daughter, so let him spilt hell open first.
ReplyDeleteI've been doing some reading in the Book of Revelation. I do not claim to be the expert on this book that some claim to be and the only knowledge I have is what I've studied through cross reference, Strong's Concordance and early church history. I've read what Dake has to say, because Davis plagiarized him so much, I had to study his footnotes. My whole process of healing has been to compare what we were taught to what the bible actually says and in doing this alone, I have uncovered many false doctrines that the ntcc has taught. I'm not saying I'm the first to uncover such doctrines as there have been many testimonies that confirm what I have learned and many have come to the same conclusions that I have long before I arrived at them. I'm not going to claim to be a blood moon prophet or teach any personal revelations that I have received from God. It seems like most of the revelations in my life have had more to do with common sense than anything else.
ReplyDeleteI read this morning in two different places in Revelation Chapter 2 how Jesus hated the doctrine and deeds of the Nicolaitins. The doctrine that was spoke of in Vs. 15 seemed to be a comparison of the "doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication." (Rev. 2:14) So I did a search to learn a little more about who the Nicolaitins were. The word Nicolaitins was broken down into two words. Nicolas and Laity, or followers of Nicolas. I couldn't really connect the dots without jumping to conclusions, so after doing some research on early church history, two early church leaders named Ireneus and Hippolytus, who recorded much of the church history that is believed to be true stated that the Nicolaitins were decendants of Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch. This man was ordained a deacon along with 6 other men to include Steven the first Christian Martyr recorded in the New Testament. According to early church history and confirmed by the bible that Nicolas was the only proselyte among the seven and it is said that he had deep roots in paganism prior to converting to Judaism and later Christianity. It was said that Nicolas had no problem intermingling all three doctrines together.
Jesus hated this so much that he mentioned it twice and commended 2 different churches for hating the Nicolaitins as He did. Davis and Kekel are a lot like Nicolas. They teach parts of the Old Testament that no longer exist in the New Testament, like tithe or hell doctrine. They also set themselves up as idols and are a stumbling block to Christians because they place more emphasis on their own rules than they do on what God wants to do in their lives. What makes them Idol worshipers? Anything you put before God becomes an idol. Many people in the ntcc have put the teachings of Davis and Kekel way ahead of the teachings of Jesus. Jesus taught through words and actions that poor were blessed and important to him, while Davis and Kekel taught that "This church doesn't have a program for that".
Daniel Boone said:
ReplyDelete"Also heard RW say that if you are looking at the sisters on the other side of the church and the rapture took place that we would miss out and split hell wide open."
DNA said:
RW is one to speak. If his words are true than he must be down there writhing in hell right now, because he did a lot more than just look at the sisters on the other side of the church. If they didn't look over there he'd be calling them homosexuals. RW is or was nothing more than a double standard hypocrite. He didn't trust other people with women because he knew what he would do if he were alone with them. He projected his own lustful thinking on everyone else. Don't look over there brother, or you'll split hell wide open, while Davis himself would visit women at their houses alone after their husbands went to work. The founder of the ntcc was the biggest hypocrite of them all. He was definitely just like Balaam and Nicolas. He placed a stumbling block before everyone by encouraging them to commit fornication and adultery, while they worshiped him and paid him to for the opportunity to worship him as an idol. What a big time hypocrite. Not only did Davis visit Diana Taylor who didn't let him into her house while her husband was gone but he also visited other women who did let him in. We have testimony and names but we won't share it because they don't want it to go public. There is a whole cloud of witnesses who have testified against Davis and yet he managed to hide his adultery from the majority of his followers. Do you ntcc'rs think that God loves Davis for that? I think Jesus probably feels the same way about Davis and Kekel as He did about the Nicolaitins. Jesus wants us to love one another but Davis and Kekel want you to love them and forsake everyone around you to worship them and give them your money. They don't care how you treat your brother. What examples of love do you have to follow in any of the ntcc leadership? Do you have a natural brother that you love, or a sister perhaps? Do you love them even though they are not part of the ntcc or do you ignore them because the ntcc teaches you to shun your family? If you do love your natural brother or sister does that love hinge upon them going to church or not going to church? Do you think that Jesus's love hinges upon someone being in the ntcc or not being in the ntcc? How can you watch a brother or a sister leave the ntcc and never try to reach out to them or talk to them for the rest of your life? Is that loving your brother? That is what the ntcc does to 99% of the people who leave their incorporated organization. They consider them enemies of the cross because they no longer pay their tithe. The ntcc is a big time cult and God hates the deeds and doctrines of the ntcc just as much as He hated the deeds and doctrines of the Nicolaitins.
Vic said:
ReplyDelete"They know the truth is the most potent threat they face and will do their best to suppress it."
DNA said:
That is why we continue to share the truth. The goal of this blog is to help people realize that they can be free from the ntcc and keep their salvation. We show you their mansions, Recreational Vehicles and cars so that you will know what they are doing with your money. They say they are using your money to further the ministry but what do they really have to show for it? A new Pavilion at the Camp ground? How's that new project going in Washington? Wasn't Kekel talking about breaking ground on that 39 gifted acres, (later un-gifted via damage control), for some new dorms? When is he going to post the pictures of the new graduating class of 2015? There were only about 6 men and maybe 13 women in the 2014 picture, I'm sure there must be lots of funds laying around to build some new dorms. You can always take up another collection. Kekel can get in his Quarter Million Dollar sports car and drive over to the dorms and show his love by giving them a few cases of Ramen while he takes up a collection. Or he can get the building crew to build the new dorms without pay as a love offering.
The truth exposes them. They brought it up, so why can't they be transparent about where the money is coming from to build up this 39 acres? The truth exposes them, that is why we want everyone to see the mansions they live in. Do you see the two mansions on that come up on our blog every time you click into it? If you were to add the value of the real estate, improvements and furnishings to include automobiles and all amenities, it would take 1000 tithe payers 2 years just to pay for the houses they live in. Oh, but we are giving to the work of the Lawrd. Yeah, right. God really wants you to continue to give your tithe to these con artists.
A popular mainline org. uses Matthew 23:23 as NT verse to support tithing! Scary!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteA popular mainline org. uses Matthew 23:23 as NT verse to support tithing! Scary!
DNA said:
Mat. 23:23 " Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."
I've heard this before. Briggs used to argue about this on the blogs and he used this scripture. The part where Jesus says, "these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone." Jesus was making a real good point here and calling out the Pharisees on their hypocrisy. They were hypocrites because they made a big show of paying tithe on their little herb gardens, but Jesus rebuked them for omitting the more important matters of the law, such as judgment, mercy and faith. This was before the death, burial and Resurrection of Jesus so the law and all of it's ordinances were still in effect. These Pharisees were making a show of paying their tithe on mint, (an herb used as air freshener back then), Anise, (used for medicine) and cummin, (used for cooking), while this same bunch were using the House of the Lord to make merchandise. Every three years they would take 10% of their herbs from their little herb gardens and say, "Look at us, how spiritual we are as we pay our tithe to the Levites." Jesus jacked them up for being hypocrites.
The ntcc is no different. They'll praise a brother for paying cash tithe which is not even in the bible and definitely not in the New Testament, while they omit the more important matters of the New testament like giving to the poor and caring for the fatherless and the widow. They will spend your tithe on millions of dollars worth of mansions, recreational vehicles, sports cars, Rolex watches, diamond pinky rings, Henry rifles and expensive antique furniture while preaching to you about sacrifice and giving. They are nothing more than modern day Pharisees and hypocrites. They don't care about you; they care about themselves. They are greedy, money grubbing hypocrites that live for whatever your money can buy for them. They laugh at you for being gullible and paying your tithe faithfully while they sit back like they are entitled to spend your 'tithe' dollars on anything they want. You enable them to continue their reckless spending sprees by giving them the money they demand from you.
This is not Christianity, people. This is wickedness and the ntcc leadership will never be transparent or honest with you about where your money goes. You need only to open your eyes and see how they are living. They flaunt their riches right in front of your noses, especially if you attend church at the ntcc cult compound in Graham, or are a bible school student.
It's really hard to get people who have been manipulated by cult teachings to compare what they have learned in their cult environment to what the bible actually says or doesn't say. The ntcc members completely believe in paying their tithe, even though there is not a scripture that supports it. If they were to acknowledge that tithe was nothing more than an Old Testament ordinance, it would break apart the entire foundation of the ntcc and everything they believe in. The ntcc is built on tithe payers. The ntcc could not sustain itself if it were not for their successful deception of tithe or hell doctrine. Everything financial in the ntcc hinges on people paying tithe every pay day in cash. That's why it hurts their bottom line when we expose them for it. They don't want people to come to the plain and simple truth that there is no tithe. The tithe they think they are giving is supposed to be for the support of the work of God, but the majority of it clearly goes to making a few religious hypocrites rich. You don't think they laugh about this in their board meetings? They know the bible well enough to know that tithe is a big scam. They look at you as idiots that have made them rich. They know if they keep stringing you along, you will do anything they say and they will continue to send their wives to the mall on shopping sprees while Kekel supervises your wives as they clean his house. But you are a blessing to the man of Gawd. You shine his shoes and wash his car and pay your tithes and offerings. Your own family struggles and never seems to have much because every time there is a need in the church, you are Johnny on the spot for them. Doesn't something seem just a little bit off? Do you really feel completely secure in the ntcc as you pay tithe and jump through all their hoops? Do you feel like they are being honest with you about where your money is going? Do you feel like you even have a right to know where your money is going? We hope you will wake up and ask yourself some very important questions. It's easy to go with the flow and do what everyone else around you is doing, but is that what God really wants for you? Maybe you are alright with giving your money to people like Kekel so they can live high on the hog, while you never find your way out of the financial problems that you have learned to ignore. God will bless me because I pay my tithe. Where does it say that in the bible? God loves a cheerful giver, but there is no account in the bible of God blessing people for foolishly giving and sacrificing their families welfare so that they could give to the Pharisees.
ReplyDelete"They laugh at the board meetings"
ReplyDeleteI recall being around at a few gatherings of the who's who not board meetings mind you but just fellowship with the "untouchables" and for the most part it was so depressing seeing and hearing these people go on and on about their " problems"
Tk at one of them complained about how sometimes she felt so depressed she would get migraines, really?
Ms Olson would take out her meds and diabetes pharaphenlia and check her sugar and go on about her gout and other ailments, very spiritual.
I could go on but like DNA stated they laughed at the expense of us minions.
Usually they talked about the preachers and they're wives. They didn't make it so obvious but they would ridiculed them about stuff. Rw was the best on doing this. He would bring up stuff and he made it sound like it was funny but he was in fact
belittling you.
Alot of people think that NTCC has their back when in fact they do not. When Blumenthal left the org due to filandering. The first time he was caught in St. Louis he propositioned an undercover female cop for sex on his way to the bank to make a deposit, the cop was working as an undercover prostitute. I know this cuz a brother who was the drummer and BS student in St louis worked at the police station where he saw the booking papers and let the cat out of the bag, this brothers name was Bro. Moss. The next time I think he committed adultery in Japan, not sure of the details. However, when he left the org he had no proof of having a job and got in trouble with the IRS. They wanted to know why he had not paid taxes in many years if ever. He was young when he went full time, I think 23 yrs old and now some 10 years later needed to get a job and the IRS was like, who the heck are you? No matter how much he asked for proof from the org to clear himself with the IRS after everything he had done for the org, they would not give him any paperwork and he had to hire a lawyer and strong arm RW into simply providing proof he was in the ministry and supported by tithe and offering. The moral of the story is that not only does NTCC gladly take your money, years and all sacrifices you make but you get left out in the cold if you ever leave. If I was a full-time minister I would be kicking down NTCC's door demanding for an up front accountability, not only where the money is going but to cover your butt if you ever need it.
ReplyDeleteI remember RW talking about the Blumenthal hooker incident--he didn't use any names, but spun a tale about how this hooker just jumped in this preacher's car in St. Louis without his consent. He was using it as an example of why we should never go anyplace alone. He said that he trusted the preacher and knew he wasn't guilty.
ReplyDeleteRight.
"Heard from a source (could be wishful thinking of course) that a top guy in the church is planning a break. Could be months before we learn who it is as I'm sure he's stockpiling money or people to start another church."
ReplyDeleteDNA said:
Great! Keep us posted. Hopefully whoever it is takes a bunch with him. It would be great to see all of those people set free. Hopefully all the rich tyrants left holding the bag will be brought to justice.
Mike Said:
Make sure we get updates, I heard of plenty of preachers/helpers who could and would break away but would be left holding very little so they just stay and hang on to what they have. Years later I find out they've left suddenly never to be seen again.
To hell with tyrants and deviants!!!
Don't take stock in sources talking about people leaving. It's easy to talk about leaving but it's another to actually do it. If someone is planning a break it could take upwards of 2 years to get everything in order. Who even knows how long it took Denis to make the break(that was pretty elaborate though). I read on factnet that he was holding alternate site conferences DURING conference to prepare his loyal minions to start collecting money and people under NTCC's nose. That would be much more difficult to do at this point now that paranoid Mike is in charge. I'm sure he's got spies looking out for every special offering being taken up by pastors who have significant amounts of income/people. You better believe whom ever is pastor in ST Louis or Georgia has got eyes all over them. Wouldn't doubt it if people who manage the money at certain churches are centrally appointed verses being picked by the local pastor.
ReplyDeleteHow is Mike going to get a Ferrari if Tithes take a nose dive? I mean everything is running in the red according to NTCC... World Missions, Camp Grounds, The Trumpet/publishing, blah blah blah... You need money for your church sell some real estate you fraud!!! Don't come to me for another offering...
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteDon't take stock in sources talking about people leaving.
DNA said:
Unfortunately I agree. I would like to believe that someone higher up would leave and take a bunch more with him, but it's been our experience that every time people talk about leaving, they never leave. We had some folks that were in the ministry contact us back when the Reeds left and there was talk of 3 or 4 families that were going to leave at the same time, but when everything died down, they lost their nerve and fell back under a cloud of fear and ntcc condemnation. Many ministers have been disgruntled and shared things on the blogs but they always seem to fall back under the same spell that keeps them from leaving. It's sad that you have to live that way.
I'm still hopeful that people will see the light and leave. I think that there might be a tipping point where more people leave than what is coming in, and that's a good thing. We saw a picture of the 2015 graduating class and it looked just as small as the 2014 class if not smaller. There appeared only to be 6 dudes and maybe 13 women. That's 12 ministers graduated in the last two years. They have more ministers in the faculty than that. I know they are probably losing a lot more than they are gaining, but who knows, everything is done under a shroud of secrecy and damage control in the ntcc. Maybe it's wishful thinking on my part but I still hold a glimmer of hope that the ntcc will self destruct and all of it's members will be free from it's influence.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"Tk at one of them complained about how sometimes she felt so depressed she would get migraines, really? Ms Olson would take out her meds and diabetes pharaphenlia and check her sugar and go on about her gout and other ailments, very spiritual."
DNA said:
I heard TK was once on meds for her mental issues. It's interesting how these women can blabber about their medical issues when Davis told Barbara Norton to turn around on her way to the emergency room with Lisa, because Davis didn't want them to miss a church service or spend his money on medical attention for a child. Lisa said that she now has serious heart issues that her Doctor told her could have been prevented is she got medical attention as a child. Davis and Barbara Norton were in the Hospital at the same time receiving attention for major issues recently. This is your ntcc leadership showing once again who is more important.
I suppose all you tithe payers out there think you are doing a good thing paying for Olson's wife to see the doctor so she can complain about all of her ailments and TK going to the funny farm to get prescribed meds for her mood swings and other mental issues. These people are pretty sick and they need people like you to pay for their doctor bills so they can continue to keep the medical industry flourishing. I wonder what percentage of people in the ntcc have health insurance or some kind of health savings account? I can assure you that all of the ntcc board members are covered by you. You are their health insurance and life insurance plan. They just keep stacking your tithe dollars into their bank accounts and safe deposit boxes while they visit the doctor every time they get a hang nail. What is the matter with the ntcc royalty? They expect you to have the faith to get healed but they are addicted to medication and live like a bunch of hypochondriacs? Once again the ntcc leads the way with hypocrisy and double standards while you pay them to be this way.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"Rw was the best on doing this. He would bring up stuff and he made it sound like it was funny but he was in fact belittling you."
DNA said:
I remember when Dorsie paid Davis with a money order and Davis jacked him up during a conference. He called him out by name. How often does that happen? You buy a money order because it is insured and then it bounces? Poor dude got plowed in front of everyone. Davis said It's not my fault, and he was probably right, but most of the time when you buy a money order it is because you don't want your check to bounce so you handle the most important things with money orders or certified checks. Was Dorsie deserving of such a harsh public rebuke when he was trying to do the right thing? I'm sure Davis wanted it taken care of immediately, to include any bank fees that he might have incurred because of this anomaly. I think Dorsie might have messed up by implying that it wasn't his fault, which it really wasn't, but you can't tell Davis that. Once Davis jumps on his hobby horse he is going to ride it until drops from exhaustion. And he did during that conference. I'm sure everyone looked at Steave like he was an alien from outer space for the rest of that conference. Davis loved to belittle people and if you ever were unfortunate enough to make a financial error that effected his bottom line, then woe unto you.
THEWORLDLYWIND said:
ReplyDelete"The moral of the story is that not only does NTCC gladly take your money, years and all sacrifices you make but you get left out in the cold if you ever leave."
DNA said:
I like your screen name, because it mocks the memory of the Whirlwind who was Kekel on FACTNET. He got his butt handed to him back in those days. He does better when he stays off the blogs, but he had to learn that the hard way. The ntcc definitely leaves you out in the cold if you leave. I remember when Maurice first started blogging he told us that they wouldn't even give him money for a bus ticket home when he left the organization. He gave them years of his life, and sacrificed his time and energy and had nothing to his name when he left, not even enough money to get home. Not only do they kick you to the curb but they don't ever care about you anymore for the rest of your life. Don't ever expect them to look you up or to visit you. If you see them per chance they might try to spray a little lemon juice into your eyes but they will not have a warm and friendly heart towards you, because they are not warm and friendly people. They are cruel and cold hearted people. Everything they do is motivated by money, power and greed. Some of the people who have been in for a long time might seem nice and might provide you with fond memories but when it comes down to it, they are all part of the same machine. That machine is built on people who give and sacrifice and it makes cruel and miserable leaders rich and feeling entitled. They have learned how to manipulate the masses into thinking that everything is just dandy. It really takes an earth shaking experience to break out of the cult induced stupor that influences your thinking. We can tell you straight up what is happening but you won't believe us. We can show you in the bible how wrong they are but you won't believe the bible. We can give you examples of how unkind and unlike Christ the ntcc leadership is but you don't want to admit that you have wasted so many years of your lives so you will only be moved when that earth shaking experience takes over your personal world in the form of Kekel or Olson or some overseer personally assaults you or your wife verbally or humiliates you in front of a crowd of people. Then you might wake up and say, "Wait a minute. I've been doing my best and everything I know to do for this bunch of ungrateful hypocrites and this is how they treat me"? Then a few months later we start hearing from them on the blogs or through someone else saying they have escaped. We are trying to save you from that humiliation. It's much better to leave on your own terms and to realize on your own what is happening around you. But all we can do is keep blogging and hope that a light bulb comes on inside your head and you see what is going on for yourselves.
D/A SAID
ReplyDelete"Wait a minute. I've been doing my best and everything I know to do for this bunch of ungrateful hypocrites and this is how they treat me"?
This is what will truly wake people up. Those stuck up snots in Washington treating you like dog poop for years (Because they love you) and suddenly the cloud lifts. Adios!
JD
Chief is back!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteChief is back!
DNA said:
I hope so, because when ever he's around people become more engaged and that's a good thing. I know his blog is open for commenting but he had it open before with minimum participation. He is at a place in life that sometimes I wish I could be. He has chosen to focus on his family and his personal life instead of spending a lot of time blogging about the same stuff. He's always refreshed the stories on his front page and sometimes he'll leave a comment, or at least I think it's him by the writing style but that doesn't necessarily mean that he's back full time. I personally would love for him to blog every day, but that might be selfish on my part. People need to get a life, including us, but to us this is part of our life. I'm fortunate enough to have a wife that likes to blog also, and this makes it much easier. We have enough time on our hands right now to blog a lot and enjoy life, but I will not lie, sometimes blogging seems more like a responsibility to me than a hobby. I hope Chief does whatever he wants to at this point in his life and I wish him nothing but the best. He has been a friend to me when friends are hard to find. If he gets back into blogging that's great. The more voices the more people might find their freedom. If he chooses to enjoy his life without the daily grind of blogging, he's definitely paid his dues and in my opinion he has been a voice of common sense and reason and accomplished a lot on his blog. We appreciate those that contribute regularly and hope that you continue. It is the comments that make a blog successful, not the moderator. This blog would die if we didn't contribute but it would die an even worse death if people stopped participating.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"Tk at one of them complained about how sometimes she felt so depressed she would get migraines, really?
DNA said:
Recently Tanya Kekel retweeted this pearl of wisdom on her twitter account. "It is not fair to ask of others, what you are not willing to do yourself". Eleanor Roosevelt
Oh, where can we start with this? Tanya has always been a spoiled brat living a privileged life off of her adopted father's coat tails. That's assuming that she was adopted. That assumption is hard to understand when you think about RW's continuous stand against children and the fact that Tanya looks a lot like Rodger. How many times has Tanya gone soul winning or knocking on doors? What has she ever been willing to do? How many times was she able to stay at home with Grant during classes and services and other mandatory functions while parents like Ted and Jean Keys were told they had to participate in every function and drag their son, Teddy, along with them while Grant-O was getting much needed sleep so he could spend his childhood attending private schools paid for by your tithe dollars, while everyone else had to suck it up and force their children to endure an adult church program and attend public schools? Children that are raised in the ntcc are forced to endure being raised in a cult while missing out on their childhood.
When is the last time Tanya ever cleaned her own house? Really Tanya, "It is not fair to ask of others what you are not willing to do yourself"? Does anyone else in the ntcc or out of the ntcc see what a big hypocrite Tanya is? Can you honestly read this and believe it? Tanya can't even scrub her own toilets or clean her husbands underwear without a cleaning crew from the bible school. I bet woman fight over who gets to do Mike's laundry and who gets to clean the bathroom. Meanwhile Tanya is off to do the shopping at Nordstrom's while Mike is left all alone to supervise. While he supervises, he also "accidentally" brushes up against them and who know's what else goes on. It's pretty hard to walk by someone who is bent over cleaning without rubbing up against them especially in a house that big. Mike has Thousands of square feet to occupy but according to testimonies given by women that have been a part of the Kekel Cleaning Brigade, he always seems like he has a problem accidentally rubbing up against the ones that are the most attractive, which are the ones that Tanya invites. Pretty sick, huh? After all, Tanya was raised by a pretty sick dude and Verna also. Do you think Verna didn't know about all of Davis's sexual escapades? Do you think she was that naive and that blind? Tanya was raised by two immoral and really sick parents if you want to call them parents and she Married a man in his mid twenties who was willing to feel her up when she was younger than the age of consent and could have and should have gone to jail for doing so, but for some sick reason Tanya enjoyed it and probably reciprocated. Davis did very little when this was brought to his attention, while most normal parents would have called the police or taken law into their own hands. I don't know any responsible adults that would allow a man in his twenties to feel up their 13-15 year old daughter. Bro. Ken said that Kekel carried around a picture of Tanya when she was 11-13 years old in his wallet and warned the other BS students to stay away from her. This is sick behavior and not normal.
Vic Johanson said...
ReplyDeleteI remember RW talking about the Blumenthal hooker incident--he didn't use any names, but spun a tale about how this hooker just jumped in this preacher's car in St. Louis without his consent. He was using it as an example of why we should never go anyplace alone.
DNA said:
A family of lying double standard hypocrites. Like Father, like daughter and son in law. Davis was alone a lot. I remember he would fly out to the visit places like Newport News alone, and stay in a hotel alone. Why would you preach to others about this and do it yourself? The Davis and Kekel families are sexually deviant. Davis was the worse one of them all, but don't think that Tanya or Mike are pure as the wind driven snow. The only reason Davis would tell Blumenthal and others not to be alone is because of his own behavior when he is alone. Mike Kekel used to go out on bike rides alone around the cult compound in Graham after midnight. Why would you do that if you had a wife home in bed? Don't believe everything you see tweeted or retweeted by Tanya. She is the last one that should talk about being willing to do something that others are made to do. This was never practiced by Davis or the Kekels.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDeleteChief is back!
DNA said:
Hopefully he comes back in time for Tebow time. Sorry to all those folks that hate football and Tebow, but Tebow might surprise people this year. After all he still is a QB who turned around a losing team and has a winning record and experience winning in the Playoffs. I would be up for a few good arguments with Chief about football if he decides to chime in on the subject. Objection! Objection Sustained! Would the jury please strike this comment from the record. That was all just coincidence. Now I'm trying to provoke Chief into leaving a football comment. One of us will probably have a lot of crow to eat this football season. Go Eagles, Go Broncos!
DnA:
ReplyDeleteChildren that are raised in the ntcc are being raised in a cult...miss on their childhood"
I recall grant saying that he liked snowboarding. I recall some of the GIs got in trouble with blumenths because thrust were playing touch football on a 4th of July barbecue way back in the day. Grant was allowed to do things a regular ntcc child was forbidden to do.
I remember a quote they used to throw around when they were trying to justify something: " if it doesn't interfere with the work of God". Really?
RW came to Fairbanks once. Of course he wouldn't condescend to stay in the 1976 Lamplighter singlewide that we were calling home then (which did get interesting at fifty below), so we had to fork up for an expensive hotel room that we couldn't afford (and about which he complained). But he was by himself the whole time. Of course it didn't occur to me then that he was violating his own stated principle, but the denial circuits were robust and working overtime back then.
ReplyDeleteIt's amazing after the fog lifts to realize just how submerged we were in the fake reality they constructed for us. No wonder our families thought we were kooks.
Do you ever wonder why most tithe payers in the ntcc are usually in the lower class financially? Very seldom does the ntcc ever find any rich tithe payers. Rich people don't get rich because they are gullible and willing to give their money away to any preacher who got their license out of a Cracker Jack box or professes that they are the last move of God on earth. There might be an exception here and there, but most of the tithers in the ntcc are barely squeaking by, living from paycheck to paycheck and making less than $50,000 per year. Don't mistake what I'm saying. It doesn't have to do with how smart a person is, but what kind of income they bring in. Folks that make enough money to enjoy financial freedom often don't need some 20 something old preacher telling them that they are headed to hell because they don't pay their tithe. Poor people are generally the class of people that Jesus was more apt to reach than the rich or well off. The ntcc knows that people that don't have a lot in this world are more apt to be looking for a better life and they of course think they have the answer.
ReplyDeleteWhat is really going on in the ntcc is that a few hucksters are ceasing on an opportunity to get filthy rich off of the lower class. In 2012 the median income was right around $50K and when you place a person with that income or less in the ntcc with tithe, offerings and expenses related to the ntcc, you are shrinking their incomes by more than 20%. 10% tithe, 5% offerings and 5% gas for picking up people for church and wear and tear on your vehicle. That puts you in the lower class to low middle class and most ntcc'rs don't even come close to making 50 thousand a year. A GI that lives in the home gives up even more than 20% of his income because he pays home offerings instead of living for free on post and has additional mileage and wear and tear on his car. This is where the ntcc gets 90% or more of it's members. People like Joel Osteen don't preach tithe or hell but they have the same hunger for money as the ntcc preacher. They preach prosperity doctrine that insures it's followers that they will be blessed if they give to the program of God. The emphasis is still on giving, but they get smaller chunks from larger groups of people. It's not easy to get rich people to part from their money. If it was they wouldn't be rich. The ntcc seeks out GI's that have more disposable income with less bills and instilled values of following orders to produce money. It's pretty clear and plain to see when as Vic says, the fog has been lifted.
The following paragraph is used in the NTCC bylaws to justify tithe:
ReplyDelete"We recognize the scriptural duty of all people as well as ministers, to pay tithes unto the Lord. (Heb. 7:8) Tithes should be used for the support of the active ministry and for the propagation of the Gospel and the work of the Lord. It is not to be given to charity or used for other purposes. (Mal. 3:7–11; Heb. 7:2; 1 Cor. 9:7–11; 16:2)"
Keep in mind that the ntcc does not consider you a brother if you don't pay tithe. Keep in mind that the ntcc will preach you into hell for not paying your tithe. Let's look at each scripture used in the ntcc bylaws and see if we can find justification for tithe or hell preaching. First we find two sentences with the Heb. 7:8 scripture thrown right in the middle, as an attempt to use this scripture to justify the two sentences. Let's read the 1st sentence and then the scripture reference and then the second sentence and see if the word of God supports their assertions.
1. We recognize the scriptural duty of all people as well as ministers, to pay tithes unto the Lord.
2. (Heb. 7:8) "And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth."
3. Tithes should be used for the support of the active ministry and for the propagation of the Gospel and the work of the Lord.
If you read the entire chapter 7 of the book of Hebrews which was written to the Jews who rejected Christ and wanted to keep the law, you will find that the Author is comparing the Old Testament Law with the New Testament Blood of Christ which clearly explains the difference between the Old Testament Priesthood and the need to keep the law of Moses with the New Testament everlasting Priesthood that replaced the law and the ordinances of the Old Testament. The ntcc leadership thinks you are stupid by throwing Hebrews 7:8 into their doctrinal statement and bylaws. Let's completely switch our brains off for a second and suppose that Hebrews 7:8 is talking about Now or in the New Testament. Let's take this verse out of context and out of the date and time period that it is referencing and lets pretend the author of Hebrews is talking to the Gentile churches and that he is saying that "here", (in the New Testament), Men receive tithes and that he's not talking about "here" in the Levitical Priesthood or in comparison to the time of Abraham where every other verse is talking about. Let's suppose that it's talking about here in the Gentile Church men receive tithes, does that verse suggest that it is the scriptural duty of all people as well as ministers, to pay tithes unto the Lord? Does Hebrews 7:8 suggest that Gentiles will go to hell if they don't pay their tithes? Does this verse suggest anywhere that Tithes should be used for the support of the active ministry and for the propagation of the Gospel and the work of the Lord? The ntcc is depending on you being idiots and not studying this out for yourselves. They also think that your are extremely stupid to not notice that the majority of the money is not going back into the ministry but it is buying mansions and cars for the few elitists in Graham. The entire organization called New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc. is depending on you not to study this scripture out so that you will continue to support their lavish lifestyles with your tithe dollars.
If you don't want to believe us, that's fine, but look at the scriptures that they use to justify tithe. They aren't even in the same Galaxy. They preach that you have to pay your tithe to them in cash, every payday without fail and that you owe this money to God and if you don't pay every penny on time you will go to hell and you will be treated like 'sinners' for not complying. Not one scripture in their bylaws that they claim proves tithe is even close to implying that cash tithe is required in the gentile church. This is not complicated. It's easy and the only reason that you ntcc'rs keep paying your tithe to the ntcc leadership is that you are scared of them. You know why Jesus died on the cross. You don't practice any other Old Testament ordinances so why are they so hell bent on you paying tithe. Turn your brain back on for just one fraction of a second and you'll figure this out.
ReplyDeleteLets look at the other scriptures that the ntcc uses to scare you into paying tithes:
Mal 3:7-11
They love to use this Old Testament scripture because it calls the Old Testament tithers God Robbers for cheating. They were bringing sick cattle in for sacrifices and not giving tithe in accordance to Old Testament law. It had nothing to do with money or the Levites getting rich and living in Mansions, but everything to do with providing agricultural support to the Levitical Priesthood. The tithe that should go to the Levites was kept from them and the Priesthood was defiled. Tithe was never paid the way ntcc wants you to pay it today. The ntcc has to totally change the meaning of tithe and carry it forward into the New Testament if they expect you to believe God is asking you the same question, "Will a man rob God"?
Heb. 7:2
ReplyDelete"To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace;"
This is a huge stretch and again the ntcc has to assume that you are a total and complete idiot to assert that this verse implies that you are commanded to pay tithe in the New Testament with a sentence of hell if you fail to comply. Abraham freely gave a tenth and it was only one time. It doesn't say that Abraham Gave cash, only 10% of spoils from a particular war. The ntcc likes to say that since this happened before the Law of Moses it must carry forward also, but if you used that logic you would have to assume the blood sacrifices which took place before the law were also carried forward into the New Testament which would make the blood of Christ of none effect. The ntcc leadership thinks you are stupid and unlearned.
1 Cor. 9:7–11
"Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock? Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also? For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen? Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope. If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?"
Again the ntcc is depending on you using this text as justification to pay tithe AND offerings. This passage describes offerings and nowhere is there any suggestion of paying 10% cash. This text does suggest that you should support a minister financially, but nowhere does it say that you should pay for his house and a separate building to have church in or that he should not get a job until the church can support a full time minister. Paul led the way and got a job, unlike the ntcc preachers who will expect 5 members to support them full time while they are too lazy to work. The ntcc must think you are dumb as a box of rocks if they think you'll believe that this passage of scriptures justifies 10% cash tithe.
Finally 1 Cor. 16:2 -
ReplyDelete"Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come."
The next text reference was taken from Chief's blog because he connected the dots for you perfectly:
16:1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.
4 And if it be meet that I go also, they shall go with me.
5 Now I will come unto you, when I shall pass through Macedonia: for I do pass through Macedonia.
"Now look at the account of the same event found in Romans."
Rom 15:25-26 "But now I go unto Jerusalem to minister unto the saints. For it hath pleased them of Macedonia and Achaia to make a certain contribution for the poor saints which are at Jerusalem."
This has nothing to do with tithe but the ntcc likes to use it because it suggests that something was to be done regularly, (weekly), for the poor saints in Jerusalem. The ntcc never takes up offerings for the poor in fact their bylaws contradict this verse because they say "It is not to be given to charity or used for other purposes." There you have it folks, the ntcc is contradicting themselves with the scriptures they expect you to use to justify tithing. Don't be an absolute dummy and don't allow them to continue to play you for a fool, which is what they are doing.
D/A
ReplyDeleteoff topic question:
What is the true story surrounding Davis and his wife getting medical treatment for ailments?
My wife has been told she was of the devil because she was sick all the time (5 year recovery from MONO).
I've had preachers tell me to pray for healing, to pray for the meds to work, to thank god for docs, to get saved, I never got a really good answer on what should be done if you're deathly ill, or why you become ill.
Mike
Mike said:
ReplyDelete"What is the true story surrounding Davis and his wife getting medical treatment for ailments?
My wife has been told she was of the devil because she was sick all the time (5 year recovery from MONO).
I've had preachers tell me to pray for healing, to pray for the meds to work, to thank god for docs, to get saved, I never got a really good answer on what should be done if you're deathly ill, or why you become ill."
DNA said:
I can tell you what not to do and who not to listen to. Anything you were taught by the ntcc needs to be unlearned. You might understand what I'm about to say and you might believe me, but a lot of people will say I'm wrong and lying. The ntcc has two sets of standards, one for church members to live by and one that the Board members live by. Davis is one of the biggest hypochondriacs of them all. None of the rules that you had to live by ever applied to Davis or Verna or Tanya or Mike. Your tithe money supported all of their medical needs and they had the best treatment money could by. So you might ask, why were we raked over the coals for medical issues?
In many cases it was just their way of exercising control over you. We were nothing more than pawns to them and the more they could twist scriptures and usurp authority over you, the more control and power they felt they had. In many instances, they didn't want people spending money that could have gone towards offerings and tithes on anything other than their greedy purposes. For those in the military, they would blame the sick person or the ill person for their own inability to not have the faith to heal them. They wanted you to believe that it was your faith that was lacking and not theirs. It wasn't the sick persons faith alone that brought healing to a person, but it was also the compassion of Jesus and the Apostles and the early church leaders that laid hands on the sick and by faith they were healed. Some of the people that were healed were so sick and close to death, that they didn't have any faith to be healed. Others were raised from the dead and they definitely didn't have faith to be healed. For the ntcc to imply that your wife was sick through her own or your lack of faith is just their way of deflecting their own faithless existence on you.
I believe in divine healing, but I also believe in modern medicine. There are Christian Doctors and their are natural remedies that aren't recognized by the FDA that can actually heal people. If you break your leg because you fell off your roof, does it make you any less of a Christian if you go to a Doctor and have it treated? I've been prayed for by ntcc preachers before and my own prayers had a better success rate than those of the ntcc preachers that I was under. When I got hurt or injured in the military, I went to a doctor. I just had surgery not long ago and I attributed the outcome to divine healing. The point I was trying to make was that I prayed and my surgery was successful. It could have easily been unsuccessful. My surgery cost money, and it also cost money to be a cult member. What is the difference if some cult leader stands over me and prays and then takes credit for my healing if you can't be a Christian in that cult without paying them your tithe? The ntcc has taken a lot more of my money than doctors ever have but they didn't have the faith to heal me of the wisdom teeth that need pulling. I had to see a dentist and I thanked God that dental surgery was successful and that the pain medication kept me from suffering the pain involved. Does that make me any less of a Christian than someone like Davis who spent much of his last months in hospitals? There might be a time in our lives when we need an outright miracle to live and I hope that when or if that happens I have the faith to believe God for it, but it is appointed unto man once to die, so we all have to cross that bridge at some point. We might not have faith to move mountains or heal the sick, but what really matters is that we believe God for our salvation and beyond that we can be a comfort to others rather than a mill stone around their neck like the ntcc. People in the ntcc have little hope and even less comfort. The ntcc is a cold and cruel world. Thank God that He is not like the ntcc.
ReplyDeleteMike, Please do not hesitate or procrastinate in getting medical help for yourself or any member of your family. There is no laying on of hands healing with in ntcc, never have been and probably never will be. So, please, don't buy into or listen to that same lying spirit that has tripped up so many of us past and current members of ntcc. Further more, have you or anyone ever heard of anyone being healed within ntcc, or any other church in recent time? (JUST FOOD FOR THOUGHT)
ReplyDeleteI was reading about the whore in Revelation and Mystery Babylon. I know that the ntcc always taught RW's doctrine that the whore was the Catholic church, and if it is, the ntcc is not far behind in the line of religious organizations that God abhors. I don't claim to know anything, but I wouldn't be surprised if Babylon represents all the hypocritical churches out there to include the ntcc. Mystery Babylon was destroyed in an hour and her smoke rose up for ever and ever. The ntcc used to judge the Catholics and Baptists and every other group. They would find scripture that would disagree with their doctrines and they would use that scripture to place those groups in hell. If an ntcc member ever attended a church other than the ntcc, the pastor would go up to the pitchers mound with a prepared sermon about that religion and scriptures that disagreed with their point of view, and he would wind up and throw fast balls that nobody could hit. If anyone ever argued they would be kicked out of the ntcc by means of humiliation and everyone would praise the pastor for throwing fastballs even though they were not in the strike zone.
ReplyDeleteThe Catholics were easy to preach against because they worship statues but when judgment rolls around I'd hate to be in the ntcc's shoes if they think the Catholics are bad. The Catholics at least care about the poor and have a huge ministry that reaches out to them, while the ntcc sneers at the homeless and does nothing to help the poor. The Baptists might believe in eternal security but they put the ntcc to shame when it comes to sharing the gospel. In the ntcc you are only qualified to invite people to church, but the Baptists actually incorporate salvation into their soul winning program. They would rather have you pray for salvation in the barracks than to have you reject an invitation to church and never hear the gospel. Even the people who walk around putting religious tracts in phone booths are at least sharing salvation with people more than the ntcc. In the ntcc, your only chance at salvation is if you play their game, go to their building and join their cult. If anyone is a whore or represents Babylon, it's the ntcc.
What religion follows the bible for real? Is being a christian a real thing? It seems like something people use to get what they want from others.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteWhat religion follows the bible for real? Is being a christian a real thing? It seems like something people use to get what they want from others.
DNA said:
Personally I think that a personal relationship is much more important than joining up with some religious group that claims they have the only way to make it to heaven. If you look at the many thousands of religions and even just the ones that are considered Christians, they all have different ideas about how to make it to heaven. Most cult leaders or church leaders all have an angle. You have to pay tithes, you have to be baptized in Jesus name only, You can't play musical instruments, you must recognize a certain day as the Sabbath day, You need to pray to Mary, you must believe in eternal security, you must have 5 church services a week and go soul winning on all your spare time, you must follow a man who is supposedly right with God. There are so many different ideas and everyone claims that their idea leads you to the gateway to heaven. I know the bible says, "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together" Heb. 10:25, but I'd rather assemble with my wife and worship God according to what the bible says than to go pattern my life after some man made religion that teaches false doctrine that only exists to financially benefit some greedy religious hypocrite that wants to make a name for himself. I'd rather take my chances at being wrong on one scripture than to assemble together with a bunch of adulterous money grubbing hypocrites just so I can say that I fulfilled Hebrews 10:25, which doesn't even suggest that you assemble with people that don't teach bible based doctrine.
As for Christianity being real, I believe it is, but I also understand why people have a hard time believing it to be real after spending so much time in the ntcc. The ntcc treats people like they are less than human. They use hell to strike fear in the hearts of their tithe paying masses and they make their members to believe that if they stop attending an ntcc church that they will forever burn in hell. Then when a person finally leaves and their eyes are open to the corruption they begin to think, how can anyone live for God, or what is the point. I spent a decade or more of my life walking on egg shells for men that were more corrupt than the average Joe who drinks a couple of six packs every night and stumbles home from the bar. People do use religion and Christianity to get what they want from others. People unfortunately are very gullible and they will believe just about anything. It's sad but true. If you are interested in being a Christian, you have to unlearn just about everything that the ntcc taught you because a large majority of it was wrong. You have to study for yourself and develop a personal relationship with God or you will fall into the same trap. It's best just to forget everything and start all over with a clean slate and don't condemn yourself. I hope you and anyone out there will give God a fresh start, forgive yourself and let God do what He wants to do without some deceptive tithe collecting tyrant telling you what you can and can't do.
I read the end of the book today and decided that it is better to seek having your name in the book of life, than to have it on a church card or a church sign. The very last admonition in the bible was Rev. 22:18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." In other words, making up rules like it is a sin to have a dog or a cat, If you don't pay tithe in cash to your pastor, you will burn in hell, If you don't dress your wife and your girls like the Quaker Oat Meal Girl, they will die and go to hell, If you or your children participate in organized sports you will end up in hell, If you don't leave your spouse because your spouse thinks the ntcc is not a godly organization then you will surely go to hell, If you talk to a single sister without the pastors permission you have sinned and need to get right with God, if you miss a church service without the pastor's permission you will die and go to hell unless you repent, if you live in a Servicemen's homes all meals and all fellowship is mandatory and if you miss a function without asking your Pastor permission, you will die and go to hell, If you go to any other church other than the ntcc, you will die and go to hell, if you pay any other church your tithe or give them an offering you will die and go to hell, if you go church hopping on your night off, you will die and go to hell, if you teach another brother something in the bible, you will die and go to hell, if you say or do anything that makes your pastor look stupid, (though he might not need much help), you will die and go to hell, If you wear jewelry, unless it is a Rolex watch, diamond Pinky ring or gold cuff links given to you by your church members, you will die and go to hell, if you listen to any music other than the Maranatha Singers, or southern gospel music, you will die and go to hell, If you cut your hair and you are a woman, you will die and go to hell but you can wear a phony wig that makes you appear to have long hair. These are just some of the ways in which the ntcc has added to or taken away from the words that God wrote down for us. Do you really want to put your confidence in someone who changes the words of God every time they make up a rule to oppress someone? Jesus never made up any new rules, why should you allow the ntcc to do so in your life? Jesus emphasized two old rules above all rules and that was to Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and to love your neighbor as yourself. Why should you trust someone that wants to add new doctrine to what is already in place to save us? Why would you want someone to take away things that are written for our good? Read it for yourself. I've pretty much outlined a few things that I've learned from reading the New Testament and they all contradict what the ntcc teaches. If I'm wrong, than the bible is wrong. If the ntcc is right, than why is that their doctrine is not in line with the New Testament? I don't claim to be an expert but it's pretty easy to sort out who is adding to and taking away from the bible.
ReplyDeleteJust read the Whirlwind thread on FACTNET from 2004 and Vic's response. It seemed to me that Kekel was obviously trying to do some damage control by discrediting Vic. If you click the link entitled Whirlwindbag above it will take you to that thread. If you arrow down to the bottom of the page you will find Kekel's accusations and Vic's response. There are some other pretty good topics and testimonies from folks of Davis's trip to Mexico and his tirade against a 14 year old girl, and attempt to steal real estate from another organization. It was the first time I ever seen the whole transcript and I thought even if a person were to read both sides from a neutral standpoint it is so obvious to see that the ntcc was lying and assassinating character, while Vic and the others were sharing actual accounts of what happened.
ReplyDeleteWell there haven't been many comments lately and things have died down a bit so, I thought maybe this blast from the past might be interesting to those who were not around blogging or participating in FACTNET 11 years ago. Vic, my hat is off to you for being a voice of reason through all this time. Much light has been shed on the ntcc and it's leadership, but it really seems to me that most of the damage done came from then ntcc leadership itself, back when they tried to defend their actions and took measures to control the damage done to them. For those of you who don't mind a good read, don't concern yourselves with the punctuation mistakes in the FACTNET forum. Apostrophes and other punctuation marks were a nightmare, but you will quickly be able to decipher the content and ignore the punctuation mistakes.
Click here for FACTNET thread entitled Whirlwindbag.
Yes, the Whirlwind Incident was the first broadside from the NTCC "leadership" online, although Mike kept his identity secret until he was outed by the newly departed Pelfreys and finally had to admit it. The funny thing was that he got the false impression that my granddaughter was illegitimate because when my wife and daughter visited Graham, nosy Sister Olson interrogated Edna about "the father" (as if it was any of her business to start with). Edna didn't want to get into a big gossip session, so she simply replied "we're working on that," because my daughter's marriage was going south and divorce was on the horizon. But the meddling old wench interpreted it quite differently, presuming Edna meant she was single and working on getting married. Apparently she blabbed it around and Mike got the erroneous word and acted like the asshat he is by trying to destroy Nicole's reputation publicly. He gave me some kind of "no hard feelings" apology later, like it was not big deal at all. What a tool.
ReplyDeleteWhile I'm on the subject of Mike, let me take another opportunity to reiterate that he and Phil Kinson boasted to me and John Sutter, while we all lived in the same dorm, that they were groping and making out with their age 13-14 future wives, and that they also became defensive and angrily refused to repent when John and I expressed our brotherly concern and told them outright that their behavior was sinful according to NTCC doctrine. They've since denied it publicly too, which is what ultimately proved to me that they are shameless liars instead of sincere and deceived victims. I know they're lying about it, and so do they, and that makes me think there's plenty of other lying they're doing too, all the while representing themselves as holy "men of God." It's sickening. And even more sickening is the fact that John told RW about the whole thing and nothing happened beyond RW making some generic statement from the pulpit about how "playing footsies under the table" was inappropriate. They continued right on, and RW was the enabler because he let his own precious daughter go on unchaperoned dates with Mike, along with other couples who received this preferential treatment and were no doubt sworn to secrecy. These are the guys that now run NTCC, and they appear to be just as corrupt as the founder who groomed them.
Don--hasn't that always been a guy on he Quaker Oats box? Look a bit closer; I don't think he's cross dressing.
Vic said:
ReplyDelete"Don--hasn't that always been a guy on he Quaker Oats box? Look a bit closer; I don't think he's cross dressing."
DNA said:
Ahhh, the Quakers have always dressed modestly, they just didn't want to pimp out their daughters by putting their pictures on the Oatmeal box.
That's a good catch Vic, and to be honest, I'm not sure where I got that from. I know that the Quakers are a lot like the Amish and they dress a lot like ntcc women do. I might have heard someone else mention it and thought it was funny. Anyway, I hope I didn't belittle any of the Quaker Women out there by comparing them to the ntcc women. I know the ntcc makes a big deal out of every word that you say. If you say something that can be mistaken for a lie, than you are automatically a liar without a trial or a jury and they place you in hell. Mat. 12:26 "But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment." They would use that scripture when they got into the pitchforking mood and try to condemn others by using their words against them. I'm not saying you were doing that, but I think they have a lot more to worry about than me comparing them to the Quaker Oat girl, if there is one, if there isn't then perhaps one should be nominated, after all we are in the 21st century, right?
Anyway, we try to have fun around here and I know that we were the butt of Davis's jokes for many years. A lot of ntcc'rs have laughed us to scorn saying that we love the world more than God, and that because we don't live by their outward standards, we are God haters and such. Kekel told some outright lies in his depiction of your wife and daughter and elevated some of your actions into sins. I personally would laugh if I saw a brother pick up a honey jar and lick the outside of it. Doesn't hurt whats inside of the jar, but I wouldn't mind seeing their modesty shocked when it comes to practical theology. I think there is a huge problem in the ntcc with people being so heavenly minded that they are no earthly good. That is their saying but that's also true of how they act.
I won't mention the name of this preacher due to the wife still around, though out of the NTCC. I heard with my own ears these words "I think the pastor should have the authority to spank rebellious wives". Not sure where or why he would say such a thing but I almost fell over when I heard it as a young GI. He seemed completely serious and did not state it as a joke but a real solution to the rebellion in some of the wives.
ReplyDeleteCan anyone give a report on what the preaching is like nowadays in NTCC? I have some old preaching tapes from early 80's and late 70's that I consider to be some good preaching. I heard that the preaching now is more like Baptist preaching, kind a like lectures or something. Is this true?
ReplyDeleteThe new preachers are mimicking osteen filling their messages with positive thinking.
ReplyDeleteThe last time I was at the graham church I was able to hear all the preachers that are now at the helm of the late rw ship. I noticed that they would read long passages of the bible and go on and on which was boring and the content was the same. Many would just regurgitate the same anecdotes and they would all say: " like rev kekel said" or " I remember rev kekel ". The thing that would bore me to pieces was when they tried to read a long poem at the end of their preaching!
I remember kekel preaching and he for some reason started berating the time he visited his mom down in michigan. I think he was talking about his childhood being the son of a divorced mom and how his uncle treated him like he was trash but when he went back they saw how God had blessed him but I remember how he was very unkind to his own mom.
I think the preachers that are allowed to preach pass the kekl's test, in other words don't take the limelight off kekl.
I remember many years ago hearing tieman say that rw had helped ashmore tone down his preaching thus we have the new and improved ashmore.
One thing I noticed in graham is that they don't have a black minister in the inner circle.
I remember seeing peliccia, knson, kekl, and some other couple but no black minister to greet people.
Maybe they don't want the dennis factor to creep up again .
Wow, Vic, I read Kekel's commentary as Whirlwind quite a few times and it is truly amazing to me how he points out so many of your failures, (As told to him by other 'brothers'), and listed things that were not sins, but he made you out to be the biggest devil that ever left the org, while ignoring the fact that he has done less than anyone to fulfill his calling. One of the most arrogant statements he made was that you didn't go soul winning, when on every account I've ever heard of, he hasn't gone soul winning since he received his calling as a church administrator/1st husband to the royal family. He described you as laid back as if that were a sin, a hippie living in a commune before you were even part of the ntcc, (who cares what anyone did before they became part of the last great move of God on earth), he accused you of being a self-proclaimed intellect, not high enough for tooth brushing, (not a sin, but quite a railing accusation, Making a statement during R-dub's teaching, "I'm going to do it anyway, (as if that really makes anyone a sinner; By the way that was RW's attitude, nobody was ever going to tell him anything, he always did it his way, while saying that his way was God's way, another lie to go along with him not remembering the last time he sinned), You abandoned the sound teachings of NTCC, (that's a joke, what sound teachings? Having a dog or a cat is a sin?), being bereft of reasonable common sense, a honey jar licker, making a brother cry in tears because you refused to go soul winning, (What kind of quality people do we have in the ntcc, if it brings a brother to tears because someone supposedly didn't go soul winning? Did anyone cry when Kekel or Davis didn't go soul winning? That must have tore up a lot of good brothers, who in turn had nobody to cry to), An unannounced absconder, (according to the lying Kekel), You polluted Dan Fowler against them, (how is that done if everyone in the ntcc is so rooted in the truth?), and caused him to no longer be a Christian, (his salvation apparently was negotiated away from him), Can't imagine what you possibly did to cause Kekel to bring Chris Kinson into the conversation, but he seemed to imply that your sins spread to him like a plague somehow, you are a bitter scorning pastor hater, (according to Kekel, who is so surrounded by God's love he would never have a root of bitterness in him), and on top of all that, you and everyone that agrees with you are a bunch of 'thin skinned pouters', but don't feel bad because Kekel still loves you, (according to him).
ReplyDeleteYou non-soul winning, laid back hippie in a commune, too stupid to brush your teeth, do it your own way, ntcc doctrine abandoning, common sense lacking, honey jar licking, unannounced absconder, brother polluting, bitter scorning pastor hating thin skinned pouter! But you were good enough to low ball your boss on supplies for the ntcc print shop before they dumped you for Fontenot who raped his own daughter and yet the ntcc has never had an unkind word to say about him while they told his wife and daughter to find another church and allowed him to continue lurking among the ntcc families who were unaware of his child raping tendencies. Thank God that Kekel can deliver us from honey jar licking brothers like you. You must have pushed some serious buttons, Vic. It looks like he also told a few outright lies. Regarding your family, the birth of your son, soul winning, (as if everyone just flocked to your church without being invited) and absconding unannounced was another lie after resigning from the org in the presence of Davis. It's alright for Kekel to spew out lies, but God forbid if a brother does something as harmless as to lick a honey jar, he is rebuked publicly as if he committed an unpardonable sin. What a double standard hypocrite!
ReplyDeleteI look at the ntcc leadership in the worst possible light, because they had so much power over us and used it to place us under condemnation for doing things that they didn't think twice about doing. Vic was very gracious to Kekel in his response, while I look at Kekel as an outright liar and a total complete double standard hypocrite, who imposes man made doctrine on others with the only goal in life to become filthy rich. I have no respect for Kekel and I think he is one of the worst people I've ever met. He is not doing anything to further the Gospel of Jesus, but rather he is desecrating the pulpit and many of the good people in the ntcc. His treatment of Vic in this discourse shows his true colors and amplifies his treatment of those who are in the ntcc. He arrogantly places people in hell or labels them unsaved for not continuing in the ntcc.
It's no wonder Kekel stopped making public statements. He did more to hurt his cause than to help it. Hope all you ntcc'rs make the most of your ntcc experience. Enjoy it while you can, for you will probably never get the opportunity to be around so many narcissistic manipulative jerks in such a short time for the rest of your lives. Make the most of it, and make sure you don't go against the grain or you will be talked about like Vic.
ReplyDeleteTHEWIMPWIND said...
ReplyDeleteI won't mention the name of this preacher due to the wife still around, though out of the NTCC. I heard with my own ears these words "I think the pastor should have the authority to spank rebellious wives".
DNA said:
I wouldn't worry about people still in the ntcc. Maybe they will see how screwed up things are and find their way out. They probably heard it themselves if you heard it, and if they are still in the ntcc, they probably have been abused and will continue to be abused until they wake up. I know that we as X-ers have been taught that if we say anything against the ntcc or it's pastors, that we are speaking against God. It's true. That's exactly what they taught. Men of God are what they called themselves and it didn't matter if they were right or wrong, we were supposed to obey them. What a bunch of stinking lying hypocrites. They could treat people anyway they wanted to in the name of God while they demanded respect and to be treated as if they were God's only voice on earth. It would be one thing if they did anything to actually resemble the life of Jesus in their ministries but they can't even love their neighbor or their brother. Don't tell me how to live if you can't even show an ounce of love or compassion to someone if they don't pay their tithes. You hypocrites and vipers. You make the outside of the platter clean but inwardly you are full of dead men's bones. Don't tell me I can't have a dog, or I can't miss a church service, or I shouldn't visit my parents, you bunch of hypocritical ntcc bible twisting forked tongued devils. You don't have God's best interest in mind when you preach at people for robbing God. You don't even know what the bible says and yet you claim to be the purveyors of the only true doctrine. You are going to make a public statement that wives should be spanked and then proceed to tell others how to live, and how to walk and talk? You are using God's people for merchandise and want to have the authority to spank women contrary to the bible? What a low life. Unfortunately there are a lot of ntcc ministers that are like that. There are some that are sincere but how long can you live in ignorance?
Spanking was a huge problem in the ntcc. Many young girls who have since grown up in the ntcc have shared their experiences with people like Davis, Kekel, Ashmore and others spanking them and groping them. These people are a bunch of perverts that can't control their lust for underage girls and boys. A lot of children endured this kind of abuse and didn't know that these perverts who proclaim to be apostles could have and should have been thrown in jail, but they covered their tracks well by using God and hell to threaten their victims into silence.
I don't know which is worse; reading WHIRLYGIG's letters of intellect or reports of ntcc's culture of backstabbing!
ReplyDeleteTHE SQUIRRELWIND said...
ReplyDeleteCan anyone give a report on what the preaching is like nowadays in NTCC?
DNA said:
I have seen a few Youtube videos of different preachers and they don't seem to be anywhere near as fervent as they once seemed to be. Not that fervency is equivocal to true Christianity. Davis and Ashmore knew how to move a crowd in spite of their failure to practice common decency and love towards God and others. When Davis retired and Kekel was made his heir apparent, (although full power wasn't given to him until recently, nobody really controlled Kekel and it didn't seem like he had to answer to anyone), Kekel made some sweeping changes that effected the way the ntcc conducted themselves in a lot of ways. Kekel replaced preaching and teaching at conferences with skits and workshops. He also changed the culture of the ntcc by making the campground a playground for volleyball, frisbee and such activities that were condemned by Davis. How can you build a church when you are playing games? Bodily exercise profiteth little and so on. Kekel has never been known to be a good preacher, but most people that have heard him, including myself are left scratching our heads wondering how this impostor ever infiltrated the Borg.
Aside from that we have heard that the preaching in conferences is dead and we know that BS attendance is down. In 2012 there were 29 that graduated, 17 brothers and 12 sisters were brainwashed. This number has decreased drastically as more and more information leaks out about their true nature. Right now they are probably losing ministers faster than they are gaining them. All this seems to support the idea that not only has the preaching died, but the church is suffering some fatal blows. This blog and all the others are vehicles for information to leak out to the ntcc faithful. They are not going to hear any of this from Kekel or the ntcc leadership. If you want to know what is happening in the ntcc, you need to hear from the X-members who comment on the blogs and Factnet. There is a huge archive of info that will educate anyone who wants to be educated. We are just a channel for this information to flow and there are plenty of other channels which provide the same info that our blog provides. We hope you will recognize the contributors and brave souls that have brought so many issues and facts to light on this and other blogs. We report what others share and our experience has been that the vast majority of what is shared on the blogs is true. We aren't going to suppress anything and we aren't going to make anything up. Too much of that goes on in the ntcc.
Question for ntcc BS graduates: What does Legacy mean? I've seen the word behind individuals names in graduation pictures and heard the Pelfry's referred too as part of Legacy 5.
ReplyDeleteVic, thanks for the Link and the laughs...
ReplyDeleteI have enough common sense to keep my mouth shut when I know the spotlight would damage my own testimony.
Kekel has done not a stinking thing in his career other than administer. Everyone knows it. Everyone who has decided to stay knows it. Everyone who's left knows it. Everyone knows he's a little brat of a leader. Why on earth would he set himself up like that?
Just an absolute moron!!!
Vic, thanks for the whirl link. Laughed long and hard at your awesome response.
JD
Skits and workshops?
ReplyDeleteWhat? That is hilarious. Tell me there is a youtube video on that.
Yeah, I guess I'm just the reprobate of the century. I don't know how I got so degenerate that I'd lick the honey off a jar. And my teeth somehow are still in my head, despite the lying accusation that I didn't brush them. So sorry I didn't get the pearly white DNA; they're still a bit dingy but quite functional, and in fact I just got my braces off so they at least are straight now. Thank God I didn't take RW's advice to anyone with bad teeth to get them yanked out, like Willie Gordon did.
ReplyDeleteThe "I'm going to do it anyway" is hilarious from a guy who refused to stop making out and groping his 14 year old girlfriend when confronted about it, and who later told the rest of us suckers that the rules we all took as gospel were just "policies" that he was free to ignore. I'm pretty sure I know what he was talking about, and I'll rehearse it again here because it's a great story. Eli Gesang found out I had a modem and tried to tell me it was dangerous, and I didn't agree. He apparently narked me out to Rear Wheel, because one night before church he told me he heard I had one. I admitted it, and he asked me what I used it for. I told him I used it to log onto bulletin boards to download free software (he openly justified piracy, but I was trying to do right). He said "what about the internet?" I told him I'd had a trial account for a month but couldn't afford access ($10/month was just too steep back then). He said he heard there's porn on the internet, and I told him there probably was if that's what a person was looking for, but I'd never seen any. He seemed satisfied and I went my way. A few minutes later he was up bloviating behind the pulpit: "SOME of you have MODEMS. You SAY you aren't looking at porn, but how do I know that? blah blah blah typical RW baseless condemnation BS etc etc." Right afterward Eli comes to me all gleeful that I got my "field plowed," and laughing about it. So I told him "I'm still glad I have one." He later came to me disturbed about it and said "some things you just don't say," and I'm sure my response was shared with the hierarchy, including Mike. No matter; head games like that are what helped wake us up and hasten our departure from the demented circus that is NTCC. Now they're all on Twitter and Facebook, but I never did receive any apologies for being ahead of the curve.
Eric Barden was the one they had crying in the office. They did such a number on that poor guy. It's true--I didn't do a whole lot of soul-trapping. I couldn't force myself to knock on strangers' doors and interrupt their dinner, or hassle people when they were out and about their business. I tried, but it was excruciating and I couldn't sustain it. At the time I felt guilty, but now I'm glad that I failed to suck more people into that evil machine. I think that I was so conflicted internally about the borg that it was impossible for me to promote it with any enthusiasm. I was just dragging myself through the motions. Nothing can screw up your Christian experience more than an abusive and controlling "church" that just sees you as a piece of meat. When I heard that Eric had left, I rejoiced that the last person I influenced to get involved was free.
ReplyDeleteI've never proclaimed anything about my intellect. He made that up.
Spanking wives was a doctrine of Fred Phelps, the recently deceased dictator of the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kansas (you know, the "God hates fags" creep who had his church celebrating the eternal torment of dead AIDS victims and demonstrating at their funerals). He taught that the Bible gave husbands authority to discipline wives in the same manner as children, and he also practiced what he preached on his own wife. Another despicable lout that, like RW, has recently helped make the world a better place by departing from it.
It looks like there were only about 15 students in the last graduating class, judging by the photo on Phil Kinson's Facebook page. That's on par with early '80s numbers--the class of '83, which I was in, had 14. When I left they were pumping out about 50 a year. Anyone else whose numbers declined that drastically would have been replaced long ago, but I'm sure they're placing the blame on the local pastors for not making enough bricks without straw. They're all washed up and can't admit it. I hope they implode.
Nothing has changed in the ntcc with Kekel. Even when Davis was at the helm Kekel was using the same tactics on Factnet in 04. Ntcc damage control consists of nothing more than a bunch of name calling and lies. So if your lucky number is up in the ntcc, you can rest assured that you will be called names and you will be lied about. I don't care if you continue to be a Christian with another Church or by yourself or if you decide you want nothing to do with religion like I did when I left the ntcc years ago. I was so warn down and used up, I decided to leave and since they already had me convinced that I was on my way to hell before I left, I decided to fold up the banner of Christianity and put it away and die and go to hell in peace. But that wasn't enough for them. I was told by MDR of a lie that was spread around about me and another preachers wife. This other preachers wife left before I did and isn't aware of the lie that was told so I'll keep their name under my hat so they don't have to suffer. Last I heard they were pastoring at a healthy church and they probably would be better off not knowing about the lies Davis spread around. I supposedly did the nasty with this preachers wife and then there is the lie that surfaced about me being sexually abused by my step father when I was a child. Thank God my Step Father was a lot of things but he wasn't a sexually deviant abuser like many in the ntcc. Now, many ntcc'rs I'm sure, will believe what they were told without having any supporting testimony from any of the parties involved. Don't you know it's just simple math? Vic + Modem = porn. Don + Preacher's wife = adultery. Ted Keys also got accused of porn when he left, and if I recall he had to ask his wife what it was because he wasn't really sure, but he was first given the opportunity to leave Jean and Jean was given the opportunity to leave Ted. Both of them were smart enough to know that the ntcc are the ones that are perverted, they left and she recently passed away and if anyone ever made it to heaven, she did.
ReplyDeleteI'm sure there are people that leave the ntcc over adultery, or fornication, or visits to whore houses. They probably all receive some kind of ultimatum before leaving. After all it's not the sin that separates you from the ntcc, it's your unwillingness to continue your servitude and unwavering loyalty to them. Usually if a person gets caught, Davis in the past or some board member would try to 'forgive' them and offer them a chance to repent and remain in the ntcc. This would usually involve a confession on the part of the soul that sinned and of course that unsuspecting damaged and tormented individual would think that whatever he or she shared with Davis, Kekel, Olson, Johnson or whoever, would keep their confessed sins in confidence. After all, how many times have we heard Davis or someone high up or even the local pastors say that any information shared with them would be taken to the grave with them? I heard it many times, but it never fails, when someone leaves the ntcc a story gets leaked out about how evil of a sinner that person is and it is accompanied by tales of apostasy and unforgivable sin so that others will fear. Mark it down, your day is coming. Even when Ashmore left, they had to wind up the damage control machine and start cranking out stories. You might think you are a permanent fixture in the ntcc because you've been around for decades, but just ask Deb and Greg how things worked out for them. They didn't even officially leave the organization and Kekel was writing letters to the Rodrigueses lying about how evil they were. They had lot's of information so the ntcc had to run an even bigger damage control campaign against them, which consisted of name calling and you guessed it, lies.
Vic said: "Anyone else whose numbers declined that drastically would have been replaced long ago, but I'm sure they're placing the blame on the local pastors for not making enough bricks without straw. They're all washed up and can't admit it. I hope they implode."
ReplyDeleteThis is what I've been saying!!! If you look at the bylaws now you can tell Mikey consolidated all power under the title of Chief Exec of the board. This is not in the pictures portion that still has RW as the Founder.
Anyone who's taken any business college course would know that it's a horrible idea to make the president of the board and the CEO one in the same. Who can fire the CEO when he starts doing Skits and workshops and loses 3/4 of the bible school? This is absolute insanity. By any measuring stick he'd be tossed on his bum. Can he? Is it even possible to stage a coup against this devil?
Feel free to consider me your enemy Kekel... From one Mike to another!
RW violated confidences to such a degree that he finally just told us "don't share anything with me in confidence because I won't guarantee that my big fat mouth won't blurt it out in front of a congregation of hundreds" (or words to that effect). It was astonishing--he told us upfront that any personal info we told him might get repeated by him publicly, so if we didn't want that happening we were to refrain from telling him. The fact that we sat there like dumb sheep and didn't rush the exits proves that mind control is a genuine phenomenon. I'm really glad he didn't have a KoolAid penchant. Glad he's gone, too. Maybe he's the one being hassled now.
ReplyDeleteMike Said:
ReplyDelete"This is what I've been saying!!! If you look at the bylaws now you can tell Mikey consolidated all power under the title of Chief Exec of the board. This is not in the pictures portion that still has RW as the Founder."
The poor pastors are the ones who have to have to answer for failure, not the board/Kekel. Their has to be a biblical way to oust him. Problem is, no one sticks around to fight. They either go start their own church or just leave all together. I suppose if you're smart enough to realize that Kekel should be thrown out you are smart enough to realize you've been had. What fight would you have left in you if you didn't believe in saving the org?
Anyway I feel for the poor bums who are still trapped... At least they don't vote for Democrats though.
Vic Johanson said...
ReplyDeleteRW violated confidences to such a degree that he finally just told us "don't share anything with me in confidence because I won't guarantee that my big fat mouth won't blurt it out in front of a congregation of hundreds" (or words to that effect). It was astonishing--he told us upfront that any personal info we told him might get repeated by him publicly, so if we didn't want that happening we were to refrain from telling him.
DNA said:
I guess he got tired of the bleating of the sheep. I'm sure now that Kekel has taken over that responsibility, he is winning friends and influencing people like never before.
Apparently the word is out that they're trying find a way to keep ministers around. Just suppose that for a minute: they want to keep people around, for what? For decades they acted like they were the only ones that had the favour of God and they were the only ones being blessed because they did what "pastor Davis" said to do, and blah blah.
ReplyDeleteAnd now they act all friendly and like they want to really know you and spend time with you but the masquerade party is over!
I wish "pastor" would have tried to spank me.
ReplyDeleteMy ex was arrested for abusing me. I would have owned that whole church and all their properties if any of them laid a hand on me!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteSkits and workshops?
DNA said:
Yep, Kekel announced that about 3 or 4 years ago while Davis was still alive. Davis always preached against such activities as skits, plays, workshops, BBQ's, Picnics, Bake sales, Amusement Parks, sporting events and anything that wasn't 'spiritual'. One of the workshops they were going to have was on the subject of choosing a PA system for your church. We joked about how in the past we had churches in basements of the Servicemen's home or really small buildings. What does a preacher that screams at the top of his lungs in a 300 square foot room need with a PA system? But sure enough, they all had them. There are some youtube videos out there of the childrens church doing skits and plays. I have to think Davis never really believed anything he preached. It had to have been about money and money only. I can't imagine someone with an ego as big as Davis just sitting back and watching Kekel tear down all the ideals that he used to build the ntcc. It must not have mattered to him because he had all the nice things that he ever wanted and that money could buy. I personally believe that the rules which were presented as God's will for our lives, were really only about control and keeping as many people living in fear as possible. Davis never kept those rules himself. He had TV's and he went wherever he wanted to and missed church services that he could have attended and visited places that he preached against with Verna. It was never about trying to get people to heaven, it was about keeping them around longer so he could collect their tithe. I don't think he really believed any of the Salvation based doctrine that he preached either. If he really believed in bible based doctrine he wouldn't have taken advantage of so many people. Davis was a big time fraud but he knew how to play people and how to make the best use of each individual that he conned. You would think that Kekel would have learned from Davis, but he thought he had a better way of manipulating the masses than Davis. Kekel burned down the bridges along with the rules. Once you give someone a freedom you can't take it back. It's like a government entitlement. Once you give them Social Security, you can't take it away from them. You can spend it on other programs till there is nothing left for anyone else but the day you decide to say, "We are going to put an end to Social Security", is the day you will see rioting like never before. Same with universal health care or any other entitlement. Once you give it to people, they expect it and feel entitled to it and you can't take it away. If you tell people that it's okay to allow your son to wear shorts and play basketball, you can't come back and say its a sin again. It's bad enough that God changed his mind once, but if you flip flop back and forth you make God out to be double minded just like you are and people might be naive but they are not that stupid. Davis probably warned Kekel and then laughed at him while he destroyed the goose that laid the golden egg.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI wish "pastor" would have tried to spank me.
My ex was arrested for abusing me. I would have owned that whole church and all their properties if any of them laid a hand on me!
DNA said:
I wish he would have tried to spank you too. I wish he would have spanked the wrong person and then we would have never had to go through what we did for all those years. There is still abuse going on in the ntcc because it is filled with abusive people. My hope has always been that they would abuse the wrong person and instead of that person running to Olson or Kekel, they would go straight to the police and report the pervert or abuser. Fontenot got reported and he ended up where he belonged. Thank God his ex-wife was not stupid enough to listen to Olson, or Fontenot would still be their doing what pedophiles and predators do. Predators are not dumb people. They always go after the weakest targets and the ones that they think they can get away with preying on. If you wonder why I have such a low opinion of people like Davis and Kekel it is because they are proprietorial in choosing their victims, they usually "own" the parents and therefore they own the child. They prey off the weakest of the flock, the ones that they know have parents that would never rise against them and the ones who they can get away with abusing. That's why they spanked other people's children, to see what they could get away with. If they could convince you to allow them to be alone with their child in their bedroom while they pull down their underwear and spank them, what else could they get away with. I can't stand child molesters and abusers, or women getting abused or raped. These crimes are committed by men who prey on the weak. They are too spineless to go toe to toe with a man of equal strength so they take their liberty to get sexual gratification from someone who is weaker than they are and they take whatever it is they want regardless of who they hurt and how bad they hurt them. The ones that they are supposed to protect, the weakest of God's children are the ones who get abused. Kekel is an abuser and Olson is an enabler. They both are the lowest of the low and don't deserve to be leading a cult that masquerades as a bible believing church.
Apparently the word is out that they're trying find a way to keep ministers around. Just suppose that for a minute: they want to keep people around, for what?
ReplyDeleteWhat are their incentives? Let me guess, instead of 60/40 the local church sends 59 and a half. The only way they keep ministers around is to lower their franchise fee.
Local minister! your congregation looks to you to protect them. Honor that.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteApparently the word is out that they're trying find a way to keep ministers around. Just suppose that for a minute: they want to keep people around, for what?
DNA said:
I know there are a few ministers out there that are not fully corrupted and actually want to do the right thing. No offense to the few good ones out there, but any deal you make with the ntcc to stay will only prolong your agony. You can't really make a deal with the devil and hope for the best. Kekel is not a Christian, nor is Olson. They are shrewd business men who are running a cult disguised as a non profit religious organization, but they are running it for a huge profit. They are liars and sinners just like any other fraudulent business that lies on their tax forms to make sickening profits. They claim non profit status and yet the Kekel's are millionaires. You say, what's wrong with that? We say, what's right with it? They are liars. Non profit means no profit. How hard is that to understand? They lied to the IRS, that makes them liars and sinners. They preach against sin, so that makes them double standard hypocrites. They teach you that if you live habitually in sin that you are a sinner and on your way to hell. Why do you let them get away with their sins and preach at you for your sins? Nobody is without sin, unless they go to the cross, otherwise they are feeding you a bunch of lies and you are allowing them to. Sure we can strive for perfection and pretend like if we dress holy and pay tithes to a bunch of lying thieves that everything is okay, but it's not. You are enabling Kekel to lie to the IRS by continuing to give him your church members hard earned money to support Mike and Tanya's Multi-millionaire lifestyles. Do you think God is going to hold you less accountable than Kekel? I know you are victims but if you read this blog and continue to support the Kekels, how are you any different from them? They are greedy thieves that lie to the IRS while you support them. You have to pressure your members for the money that supports these lying thieves. Can it be made any more plain than this for you? What will it take for people to wake up?
Unfortunately non profits are a huge scam in this country. If you wind up with 10 million in profit you just increase base pay, distribute dividends, buy real estate or whatever to show you have no profit.
ReplyDeleteI think Davis left because it had to be to painful to try and preach while Kekel was breaking all the rules.
ReplyDeleteHow do you preach against this or that while Mike is going in the opposite direction. Wonder what he had on ol' Roger.
Mike
RW had his eye on our daughter (and probably every other attractive young morsel around) when she was just a young teenager. One time we hadn't proceeded ten feet inside the doors of the church in Graham when he rushed over and told us she had to fix her dress. Unbeknownst to us, she had rebelled against the "Quaker oat meal girl" (yeah, I know it was a guy, but it does have a certain ring to it) look and cut the threads that held the slit in her skirt together. We were oblivious, but the old goat had an eagle eye for details like that and he was all over it. Once he slipped her a $20 bill, trying to look like Mr. Sugar Daddy. Funny how I never saw him give our son (or any male child) any cash like that.
ReplyDeleteRW was a creepy old dude. I was a fool to let him control us for so long. Don't make the same mistake with Kekel; he might be even worse and has his own history with pubescent females.
Vic, sounds like he was attempting to "groom" your daughter for his own perverted wants when you weren't around. Giving money to young teens and older female children sounds way too familiar.
ReplyDeleteI wonder what anecdotes mck will have to preach to keep the people in his org.
ReplyDeleteWe were all duped into believing the rags to riches stories that rw told us.
We were like little kids enthralled by his humility when he would go on and on about the times he had to pray facing the congregation because he had holes in the soles of his shoes, and so on.
At least he had some stories to tell but mck what is he gonna say? That he remembers the times tk had to go to the Nordstrom rack to get him a suit?!!
It did look like grooming, but he did it right in front of us. That's how brazen he was.
ReplyDeleteI'm disgusted!
ReplyDeleteWonder what Mike does to groom
Wow, RW gives more money to female children than to his own missionaries. I find that to be a red flag from hell!
ReplyDeleteWarning extreme and graphic violence. As discussed before on the blogs, the ntcc leadership needs to stop pushing people the wrong way. There has already been a triple murder suicide in the ntcc that can be read about on this blog by clicking into the Moreno Tragedy. Kelly Merz is another good example of the harm done to people by the ntcc leaderships use of false doctrine. We do not condone this or wish any harm on the ntcc members or it's leadership, but the ntcc is an environment ripe for this type of violence. People can only be pushed so far.
ReplyDeleteClick here for Kingsman Cult scene
Anonymous said:
ReplyDeleteAt least he had some stories to tell but mck what is he gonna say?
DNA said:
Muck did carry on about his mother's cracked toilet seat. Instead of buying her a new one, he used it as an opportunity to belittle his own mother in front of the ntcc masses.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteWow, RW gives more money to female children than to his own missionaries. I find that to be a red flag from hell!
DNA said:
There are children who grew up in the ntcc that have shared that Davis gave them much more than just money, unfortunately. What a sick thing to have to remember for the rest of your life. I truly believe that Davis was the sickest of all of the pedophiles in the ntcc. We have heard from numerous witnesses that Davis molested them as children and we also have heard about many instances where he committed adultery and some attempts to commit adultery. He created the environment that eventually destroyed the ntcc. At one time there were enough saved people who loved God and cared about the ntcc to make a difference, but so many were run off and others left because they woke up and didn't want to be a part of what was left. Most of the people who had any common sense and watched the wholesale changes that took place when Kekel started running the show left or were shown out the front door. The ones that stayed were slowly corrupted as their loyalty to man was greater than their love for others. Now it seems like the only ones left are people like Kinson, Gandy and Gesang along with the hardened board members and BS faculty. There are many new Christians that are falling into the same trap, but the cult has been watered down and many of the leaders are void of passion. The few sincere hold outs are not confident and they are caught between condemnation and fear to leave after being institutionalized and manipulated for such a long time. There are a lot of people with good hearts that got out after 30 years of being pushed around and beaten down. The ntcc cares nothing about their service and labor of love. It's all about money and numbers now.
If you read Mike K. account on myntcc.org of his trip to New York it seems as if he tries to make it sound like it was some great sacrifice and goes thru much labor to give account of how late he arrived and the cheap rent-a car he got and how cold it was and how much money he did NOT spend. I don't know, is it just me, or does it seem like a snow job on his part to his follower?
ReplyDeleteimaskingwhy said...
ReplyDeleteIf you read Mike K. account on myntcc.org of his trip to New York it seems as if he tries to make it sound like it was some great sacrifice and goes thru much labor to give account of how late he arrived and the cheap rent-a car he got and how cold it was and how much money he did NOT spend. I don't know, is it just me, or does it seem like a snow job on his part to his follower?
DNA said:
Most of the followers of Kekel are pretty shallow. If you read his blog or social media pages most of the people that comment, use the same old cliches such as "God bless you sir", "Praise God", "We are praying for you sir". On Mike's twitter account summary he talks more about his 3 years in the Army than he does about his ministry, probably because there is less to talk about. His vacation to New York was not as much of a sacrifice to him as it was to the members of the NY church that paid his way out there.
I found a verse in the bible today that is wrong. I think Jesus made a mistake in Luke 11:4 when He was telling the disciples how to pray. In Verse 4 it says: "And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil." I think Jesus forgot to consult with Davis before adding this verse of scripture because why would Jesus tell men that were His followers to ask God to forgive them of their sins, if they couldn't even remember the last time they sinned? Someone had to be lying here. Either Davis was lying or Jesus was wrong. I know Davis believed that once we were saved we no longer sinners and we were supposed to live perfect lives. He would point to scriptures like, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Of course Davis taught that he had obtained this perfection while everyone else seemed to fall short of it. Perfect is defined in Strongs as: brought to its end, finished; wanting nothing necessary to completeness; perfect; that which is perfect; consummate human integrity and virtue of men; full grown, adult, of full age, mature. Nowhere is the word perfect defined as without sin, or "I can't remember the last time I sinned". So those of you who struggle with sin, please don't give up hope. Paying your tithe will not buy forgiveness any more than the buying of indulgences will take care of your sins. Davis was lying to you when he said he could not remember the last time he sinned. In fact he was sinning when he told you that. What he should have said was that he could not remember the last time he repented of a sin. I remember the ntcc teaching on repentance that it means to do a 180 degree turn around from sin. So when he had his flunkies lie on the IRS forms every year that they were a non profit religious organization, he never completed that 180 degree turn around. He just kept spinning in the same direction like a swirling vortex. When he owned a TV in his own house but preached that others were sinning because they watched a TV, he kept spinning in the same direction.
ReplyDeleteIt's a fact RW had a TV? Really? This is the first I've been hearing about it.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteIt's a fact RW had a TV? Really? This is the first I've been hearing about it.
DNA said:
Julie said that she seen a TV in Davis's house that was plugged in and working when she was a little girl. She had wondered into a part of Davis's mansion that she wasn't supposed to be in and got in trouble for asking her parents about it. Ken also went over to Davis's house one time and he told us that Davis had a dog and a TV. When Bro. Ken asked Davis about it, he told Ken that he needed a TV to know what was going on in the world. He said the ministers were too busy and not spiritual enough to be trusted with TV's or something to that effect. Also we recently found out that Davis had two active TV's in his 1 Million Dollar Recreational Vehicle that he used to watch. According to Matt Reed, Davis also walked into his motel room one time and Reed had the Devil Vision facing the wall, and Davis turned it around and told Reed that he watched it so it was okay.
I guess this information is suppressed in the ntcc. Of course when you live by double standards you don't want people that are following you to know such things. I mean afterall, what would people think if you told them that the Devil Vision would send them to hell and you found out that they were watching it? Don't be so surprised. Davis was guilty of a lot worse sins than watching TV. You really need to read the blogs more often if you want to know what is going on in the ntcc. That's how people in the ntcc find out what is going on. Nobody knew Ashmore had left until word started circulating on the blogs and then the ntcc had to do some serious damage control which involved Olson flying out to select churches to try to smooth things over. When people like Ralph St. Clair die and nobody is told about it, they have to find out on the blogs, because it would otherwise remain a mystery. Olson had to come on his blog and make the announcement of Ralph's death after we made the announcement on our blog. Information makes the ntcc leadership look stupid. Ralph St. Clair was a huge embarrassment to the organization so he didn't get to enjoy the celebration of his life as Davis did. Do you ever wonder why information about people that leave the ntcc is suppressed? Because it makes the ntcc look bad every time someone leaves. Most of the people that leave have testimonies and they leave because they are fed up with the way they are being treated or the way their wives are being treated. People know that many who leave are good people. They haven't changed just because they chose to leave the ntcc. Leaving the ntcc doesn't make someone any less of a Christian. They got smart and wised up. They opened their eyes and saw the hypocrisy. When you do things above the table and your motives are right you don't have to hide information from your congregations to 'protect' them. You hide things from them because you don't want to lose them. They might just open their eyes and see the hypocrisy for themselves and leave before they waste another day supporting people like Kekel with their time and money.
I remember one of rw's illustrations @ one of his very compelling lectures in a conference back way:
ReplyDeleteIt was a sick animal that had come to rest at the front porch of this man's house. The sick raccoon was injured and At first the man was just gonna let it die but he took pity on the animal and he started the process to bringing it back to health.
Rw correlated it with how God brings injured people, sick people, spiritually speaking and as ministers we are to help them with the Gospel.
The illustration was so touching and compelling that there wasn't a dry eye that afternoon service, people were at the altar crying and renewing their vows to do more for God.
Many years laters I was watching a DVD and lo and behold this same story was playing out on that episode I was watching of the Walton's!
I remember going back to the notes I still had from those conferences and sure enough there it was the illustration word for word exactly like it was in that Walton's episode. And to think that we were at conference turning the motel tvs backwards when we should've been watching to get preaching material.
Taken from a book titled: The Heresy of Mind Control
ReplyDeleteRecognizing Con Artists, Tyrants and Spiritual Abusers in Leadership
By: Stephen Martin
Introduction
Just Suppose
Suppose you move to a different area and are keeping your eyes open for a good group to belong to (a social club, a church, a synagogue or a service organization). You visit one such group where the people are very friendly, loving and give you individual attention. The group has a variety of programs: a rehabilitation program for drug addicts, services and nursing homes for the elderly, help for the poor and free clinics. The leader inspires the disillusioned, the disenchanted, and those who have been rejected elsewhere. He is well known and respected in the area and the mayor gave him a position as director of the City Housing Authority. Would you join this group?
Suppose you spend four years in college and nearly two years in graduate school to prepare for a career in Christian Music. Then the ministers of your home church tell you that you are not needed in their music program. Shortly afterward you find a new group that welcomes you with open arms. They really care for you. The leader of this group has fascinating bible studies. You and everyone else are able to sit and listen to him for several hours at a time. Would you stay in this group?
If you answere "yes" to the first situation, you joined the church led by Jim Jones who led over 900 of his followers into a mass suicide murder.
If you liked the second group, you became a follower of David Koresh, who led over 80 of his followers to die in a blaze of fire.
A wolf in sheep's clothing is a short and simple description of a cult leader, as these men were.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"I remember going back to the notes I still had from those conferences and sure enough there it was the illustration word for word exactly like it was in that Walton's episode. And to think that we were at conference turning the motel tvs backwards when we should've been watching to get preaching material."
DNA said:
There's confirmation. Davis was getting his preaching material from episodes of the Walton's on The Devil Vision which we were forbidden to watch. Of course a lot of ntcc'rs will say that we are just lying and making things us. You ntcc'rs are walking around in the dark bumping into things that we see plainly. We are trying to warn you, but you would rather continue groping around in the darkness. If you open your eyes to the truth you will see plainly what is really going on. If you would take the same critical spirit that you use to find fault with other organizations and apply it to your own church doctrine, you would be appalled and astonished that you ever fell for such a scam. All we can do is keep warning you and keep telling you the true stories that led us to our escape and hopefully one day you will be honest with yourself and see things the way they are instead of how you were taught to look at them. It's pure brain washing and mind control, but don't listen to us, because we are the enemy even though we are not making a dime off of you while Kekel and Olson are filthy rich and they can't wait for your tithe money to be sent to Graham so they can continue to live their lavish lifestyles while you enable them to oppress more people every day.
Does anyone know what is happening in the HOP nowadays? It is hard to find anything on them. Also, I wonder what kind of investments RW had. I cant see him NOT investing money. On top of all this info, wouldn't it be something if the NTCC leadership was found out to have 100's of thousands of dollars in mutual funds and stock market while the peons continue to work hard in the hopes of the NTCC gold (which is the org itself) smile down on them.
ReplyDeleteI dare any of you NTCCers to outright ask if they are using your money to invest for their future.
What are you afraid of? grow a pair and man up, they but on their pants the same way you do, except you go to work and they go to the bank. hahahahahahahahaha
HOP is still Hopping, and they are even more secretive than the ntcc. Good luck getting current information on them because they are better at keeping the letter of the law of Davis than Davis was. When Davis 'stepped down', he allowed Kekel to destroy most of his controlling doctrines, which had to do with the internet, TV, skit's and workshops, sporting events and other types of recreational entertainment which can be referred to as replacements for King Jesus. You've replaced King Jesus with a Baseball game, and so on.
ReplyDeleteAs for investments, it's been covered. I'm not sure if Kekel said something about investing his money wisely at one time implying that all the money Davis and Kekel had was from making good investment choices with their own money or if we just discussed it on the blogs. They both were broke at one point in the organization by their own admittance, so if they obtained any money to invest it was through them stealing God's money and requiring tithes and offerings. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they had much more than hundreds of thousands tucked away somewhere. I'm sure they have shares of stock and mutual funds and such. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they had Island property in Canada and/or Washington or if they had real estate ventures completely separate from the ntcc worth millions of dollars. They didn't have anything, so don't believe them if they tell you they got rich off of investing money. They convinced you to give your money so they could invest your money in their futures and that's obvious. You were the suckers and so were we for paying tithe to them. They didn't need that much money and they didn't even know what to do with it all. It was like winning the lottery and hitting the lucky numbers every week. At the home in Ft. Bragg we had 17 living in one house paying tithe and home offerings + 30 church members paying tithes and various other offerings. I kept the books and there were thousands of dollars coming in every week and not much going out. They later purchased the house next door after it was vacated by the oneness preacher that RW had it out with and years later Taylor had 24 or so living in the home paying tithes and home offerings. Both houses were sold and the escrow was most likely zeroed out and now they have a dump for a church thats on the other side of town way away from the post, but what happened to all that money? That was probably a half a million in real estate and a half a million in the escrow, all traded for a church building that looks like a run down thrift store with no parking lot.
I wonder if Hop is growing now that NTCC is shrinking. I'd hate to see people fall out of one devils hand and into another.
ReplyDeleteMike
They didn't make their millions in a biblical fashion. Jesus said: "The blind receive their sight, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, and the deaf hear, the dead are raised up, and the poor have the gospel preached to them." Mat. 11:5 How many blind receive their sight in the ntcc. One minister was told not to bring a blind brother to conference, and he brought him anyway, but Davis didn't want him there because he didn't have the faith to heal him. Ashmore might have healed of cases of the whooping cough but I don't ever recall seeing the lame walk in the ntcc, and Lepers would have never been welcome either. Davis didn't have a ministry that reached out to the sick and neither did Kekel. Ashmore once stated that people were judged for mocking Davis, some guy broke his arm imitating how Davis preached or something to that effect, but never any life changing miracles. Now deaf people were made to hear and nobody was physically raised from the dead that I've heard of and if they were, I doubt if it had anything to do with Davis's faith.
ReplyDeleteWhen have the poor ever had the gospel preached to them in the ntcc? Only after we were made poor by giving our tithe to the ntcc, were we considered poor. The ministry in the ntcc has always been geared towards people who had money to pay tithe. If you didn't give tithes or offerings and you came around the Servicemen's home just to eat meals, you were quickly run off for being a free loader. You might get love bombed your first or second time out, but if you started coming out for the loaves and fishes, you weren't going to make it long at all. Your success in the ntcc was directly related to your ability to give, and if you gave a lot, you were loved. That brother is a blessing, he always pays his tithe on time and pays much more than required. While another guy without money gets blasted for not paying enough or for being late. I'm not kidding one bit, everything was related to how much you gave or did not give and had very little to do with your love for God or the brethren.
I never saw to much of the tithe bombing but I had some nice guy preachers. I saw bombs thrown at TV/Movie goers, non soul winners (actually this was the worst), and people who didn't make it to every service.
ReplyDeleteThat was my experience.
I think Money wasn't as much of an issue because we had a fair amount of GI's in the home plus we had some good tithers. I think the pastor was able to focus in on his own personal complaints with overall commitment.
Mike
I've got that recording where Ashmore rails on the mockers; he used it as an example of the dire judgment of God on "sinners" who refused to repent.
ReplyDeleteRW did claim to have opened deaf ears. He said they brought a 4 year-old boy to him in the Philippines and said he was born deaf. Supposedly God told him to spit on his fingers and stick them in the kid's ears. Nothing apparent happened. Then God told him to hold his watch up to his ears, and the kid screamed because he heard for the first time in his life. We just ate this crap up, and we were so mesmerized it never occurred to us to wonder how come we never, ever witnessed such occurrences ourselves. He had all kinds of "apostle" stories about him performing miracles, casting out devils, interacting with angels, and even hearing the audible voice of Satan himself. He even claimed that God himself manifested to him in a motel room in Indiana and told him to go back to St. Louis after he fled when he was unmasked as an adulterer (although he omitted that particular detail). He had a big tale also about the first time God appeared to him--told him to close his eyes and the room lit up with the "glory of God." Later a brother told he read an almost verbatim account of the same thing in an Oral Roberts book. Davis plagiarized everything, whether it was Dake, the Waltons, or Oral Roberts. He had to; he was just an empty suit who could never produce anything original.
Early on there was more emphasis on "pentecostal" things like healing, prophecy, etc. After awhile, that stuff just disappeared. I think he didn't want the abject lack of success in those endeavors to become apparent. People might believe stories for awhile, but over time it starts looking fishy.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"I never saw to much of the tithe bombing but I had some nice guy preachers."
DNA said:
I was referring to 'love bombing' which is a term used to describe how the ntcc gets people to come to church and stay around long enough to find out if they are going to support the church with tithes and offerings. Love bombing usually takes place when a new guy or girl comes to church. The person that is usually designated to drop the love bombs is the pastor's wife. Other people also participate by asking all kinds of questions and trying to show some kind of interest in that new person. It doesn't happen to the people that are permanent fixtures and that already pay their tithes. Many of them lose their significance as time wears on and they are at a different stage of the scam where they often are kept by fear. Fear mongering is a method used by cults to keep people around after they've been there a long time.
I have also witnessed much of the bombing that you are talking about Mike. People getting blasted for not paying tithe or for doing things that were supposedly a sin according to their own definition. Going to movies was a huge sin when we were in the ntcc. Any thing you do that was fun outside of the church was considered a sin, especially if it was used to replace church. If you went bowling instead of soul winning, bowling would be demonized by the holier than thou preacher who would also point out that beer is served in bowling alleys and that you would rather spend time in a den of iniquity while souls were dying and going to hell. By this standard, Kekel and Davis along with their wives would be burning in fire and brimstone also because there were many times when they missed church for other activities. Kekel went on an all expense paid vacation with Tanya to Hawaii and only went to one church service while he was there for two weeks probably basking on some lascivious beach somewhere with Tanya. I don't know exactly what they were doing but if any of us were to miss church for any reason at all we would be demonized and used as an example of judgment. Kekel was also seen at Disney World with Grant at the "Small World" exhibit according to someone, and I'm sure he's been a lot of places instead of soul winning. I wonder how many times he's been doing his own thing instead of soul winning? He definitely is not known for participating in soul winning, so whatever he does instead is his god and souls are not being won by him or Tanya. Those hypocrites.
Vic said:
ReplyDelete"Davis plagiarized everything, whether it was Dake, the Waltons, or Oral Roberts. He had to; he was just an empty suit who could never produce anything original."
DNA said:
It sounds like he plagiarized his story about healing the deaf boy also from the book of Mark 7:33 "And he took him aside from the multitude, and put his fingers into his ears, and he spit, and touched his tongue;"
I agree. Davis whole life was a scam, but I think secretly he laughed at people for believing him. I wonder if he would sit around with Kekel and laugh at how stupid people were for giving them so much money. I bet it was a real hoot as they would joke about how gullible people were at the dinner table while they dined together in their mansions making fun of how poor and broken down the people were as they ate out of China that cost more than most of the ntcc church members cars. I'm sure they laughed about it all in their board meetings also. They would probably make jokes about how ministers were struggling to get by with tons of bills and hardly any tithe payers while planning out their real estate ventures and how they were going to purchase their next million dollar recreational vehicle. I wonder how many broken down ministers would call Davis for some kind of financial help and he would tell them to 'have faith in God', and use them for pulpit fodder during conference. He wouldn't even help his own Christian brother in many cases less alone help the poor or afflicted of the world. Davis made himself into whatever he wanted people to think he was only to get their money. He was a chameleon that would change colors and become whatever lie he made up and tell stories to make people think he was something he wasn't all so that he could accumulate wealth, and he was good at it too. We all fell for it. He was successful in being an absolute leach on the body of Christ.
I recall when grants gramma was talking about his graduation at the exclusive private high school.
ReplyDeleteShe said that after the ceremony the graduating class and the director or principal they all went bowling!
I'm sure nobody got preached for going to the worldly place.
Vic said:
ReplyDelete"Davis plagiarized everything, whether it was Dake, the Waltons, or Oral Roberts. He had to; he was just an empty suit who could never produce anything original."
IMASKINGWHY Said:
I remember hearing Jack Hyles, Og Mandino, Dale Carnegie, Napoleon Hill, Denis Watley and others referred to all the time ins B.S. Even the Practical Theology notes were plagiarized. I am blown away as to how I bamboozled into thinking I was part of the last move of God on earth. I would not trust a word that leadership in that org says. Bunch of selfish butt kissing religious thugs who need a swift kick in the seat of their pants. If your in and thinking of leaving don't let them a%&holes push you around, they are only out for a self interest of the org they set up as their god. ICABOD has been written over the door, run and don't turn back lest you become like them; hardened and full of pride of denomination. their is a book called the "Sin of Secterianism" read it and weep.