Of all the doctrines that are taught and practiced in the ntcc, one of the most damnable heresies is how women are taught to enslave themselves to man-made rules that the ntcc leadership requires them to live by. I will tell you without a doubt that the ntcc is one of the most horrible environments that a woman could ever choose to live in. Women are objects in the ntcc; and they are treated like property by their narcissistic husbands. The ntcc uses the scripture: 1 Pet 3:1 "Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives;" They love taking certain parts of scriptures and isolating them to become false doctrines which are used to control and manipulate people, in this case women. You will hear the first 10 words of this scripture regurgitated over and over by ntcc preachers everywhere; and all the men will be shouting, "Praise the Lord!" at the top of their lungs. However there is another scripture that you will very seldom here coming from behind an ntcc pulpit and that is: Eph 5:25 "Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;" They love to strut around behind the pulpit like they are the king of their little domain and talk about how women are to be in subjection and obey their husbands; but they very seldom treat their wives with the love that Christ has for the church. For ntcc'rs and non ntcc'rs alike the solution to every problem is right in front of us all; and it is so simple. Luke 10:27 "And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself." If you love the Lord with all your heart, you will love your neighbor. If you love your neighbor you will not covet his wife. You will not do things to hurt your neighbor. The answer is just plain and simple, LOVE. This is where the ntcc is way off and this is why women are treated so badly in the ntcc.
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| This Poor NTCC Woman is Trying to Get Her Chores Done so she Can Go Soul-Winning Before Church Service |
Women are usually treated like objects in the ntcc. They are told to be like flowers; to look pretty and smell nice. They are told to be quiet and only speak when spoken to, unless they are part of the royal bloodlines in the ntcc, then they can say whatever they want to, whenever they want to unless they step on their husbands' toes. Women are told how to dress and are expected to follow a man-made standard called holiness which was never kept by Verna or Tanya Davis, the Queen and Princess of the NTCC. Many of the Board Members have deviated from the holiness teachings that were introduced by R.W. Davis. Women are not allowed to wear make up or ear rings. Not only are they not allowed to wear them but they are called out and publicly humiliated for doing so. If a woman wears make up, she is called a Jezebel with war paint and devil stirrups in her ears. No jewelry is allowed except for a wedding ring and possibly a watch if the husband isn't too much of a cheapskate to buy her one. Women are expected to wear frumpy looking dresses that in most cases can only be found in Kook stores or Great Grandma's Attic sale. All clothing is supposed to be loose and not revealing any bumps or curves.
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| Somewhere on a Rack like This You Will Find Your Kook Store Wardrobe! |
Women are expected to sacrifice their careers in the ntcc and be supported by their husbands. They are not allowed to work on the job or to make any income on their own. This placed them in complete subjection and dependence upon the man; and the longer they live like this the harder it will be for them to leave the ntcc and get a job in the outside world. Most women in the ntcc are scared to death to leave their abusive husbands; because they haven't had a job in so long that they don't think they will be able to function on their own. Women with children find themselves in an even more hopeless situation; because they have no means to provide for their children if they leave and risk losing any custody or contact with their children. Because this culture exists and is glorified in the ntcc as being God's will, the man can get away with almost anything. If the woman in a relationship tries to go straight to Kekel or Olson with allegations of abuse, they will not be heard unless there are charges brought against them; and then the woman will be told to find another church. If you have read the last two paragraphs of this blog post and you don't think that the ntcc is a cult by now, you are in serious denial. Keep in mind that the ntcc royalty is not treated this way. Tanya does whatever she wants to do and follows few of these rules. She has a job teaching in the bible school. She wears very tight fitting clothing and lasciviously shows her cleavage and body. Her dresses can be extremely tight and revealing; and she has been known to rub her breasts up against the brethren when in close proximity. I'm not making this stuff up; people have shared this with us on multiple occasions. NTCC ministers are taught that children hinder the work of the Lord; and if a wife gets pregnant it's her fault for being disobedient and ruining their husbands ministry. Husbands get away with abusing their wives and children; and the ntcc has been a hiding place for perverts and sexual predators that are harbored by the ntcc leadership. Women in the ntcc are treated like absolute slaves; and they can do little to stop the abuse.
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Women in the NTCC Give up their Right to
Have a Career Like this Woman has.
This will Never be An NTCC Woman.
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The best advice that we can give to women in the ntcc is not to break off all ties with friends and family who are not in ntcc. In most cases close family will still love you even if the ntcc has influenced you and manipulated you to cut yourselves off from them. In a lot of cases they are praying for you more than the ntcc leadership and your spouse combined. If you open that channel back up and start communicating with your loved ones, that might be a way that you can get some support. My mom left her first husband and moved from Minnesota to California and let nobody know where she was going and started from scratch with my older brother. NTCC ministers in many cases don't have the means necessary to fight any kind of legal battle or try to find you. The ntcc leadership doesn't want any unnecessary attention drawn to them either. If you are a married woman in the ntcc, with or without children, you are living in an abusive situation. Get it documented. Go see a social services worker and tell them that your husband is in a cult and that you are required by your husband and your church to give up all your rights as a woman. If your husband abuses you physically in any way or even verbally you can build a case against him. Use whatever resources you can find to help you. The hardest thing to do is to start looking for a job. Tell your husband in the ntcc, that he can not legally keep you from seeking employment. You need to take back your rights as a woman in the United States. Being in subjection to your husband doesn't mean surrendering all your rights. You are at a disadvantage and to tip the scales in your favor you might have to break some ntcc rules. Proverbs 31 clearly teaches that a woman who works is virtuous. Tell the ntcc you want to be a virtuous woman. If your ntcc husband ever touches you or your children, go straight to the police and get a restraining order. Take pictures and report abuse immediately. If your husband sexually abuses your children, go straight to the police and report him. Don't even speak with any of the leaders of the ntcc. Don't give them the chance or satisfaction to try to place fear in your heart. Women in the ntcc need to start fighting back. I know you are all at a disadvantage and it might seem impossible but there is strength in numbers so get help from the resources out there.
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| What Will you have After You've Spent Your Entire Life in the NTCC? |
As long as you have no money or support from friends or relatives, you will have very little means to change your situation. Women in the ntcc need to take back their right to work. It is illegal for anyone to discriminate against a woman's right to work. The bible doesn't teach against you having a job. As long as you depend on that ntcc brain washed follower of Kekel to make all the decisions in your household you will never be able to break free. It is not a crime in the eyes of the law or of the bible for you to get a job. If you were to go out and get one on your own, I'm sure the ntcc and your husband would fight you tooth and nail, but what could they do? They can't legally tell you not to work.
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WWII - Rosie The Riveter recruited women
from their kitchens to the assembly lines. |
This is a very important topic. I believe that women's status in the ntcc basically causes every problem that exists in the ntcc. The role of a woman in the ntcc is defined by the ntcc leadership, which was Davis, back in 69, when he started his cult. The reason that Davis and Kekel both became filthy rich is a direct result of how women were treated in the ntcc. To be an ntcc woman, you have to allow yourself to be stripped of all your rights. Everything you do revolves around what your ntcc husband does and all you can do is support him in his decisions. You are powerless to change your status in the ntcc as a woman. The woman's sole responsibility is to take care of the Man that she has been matched with. If you are a woman and you were matched with a dud, you will be the wife of a dud for the rest of your life, unless something happens. If you are a woman that was matched with a man that she can live with but that man is not a successful minister in the eyes of the ntcc leadership, your whole life is going to be miserable based on the limitations the ntcc places on your husband. The only women that benefit at all in the ntcc are the women who are married to successful ministers in the eyes of the ntcc leadership and they must bring in money or numbers to accomplish that. To bring in money and numbers in the ntcc there is an enormous amount of pressure and scrutiny on the man who does so. In order to be a successful minister in the ntcc, you have to break some of the rules and that places a man and his wife in an ethical dilemma. You have to preach the false doctrine of tithe. There is no way to get the money and numbers necessary to gain the ntcc leaderships approval without preaching tithe or hell to your members. There are many other circumstances that factor in to a minister having success in the eyes of the ntcc board members, but all of those factors are not something a ministers wife will ever be able to control.
ReplyDeleteAs a woman in the ntcc, you are completely helpless and that is how they want you to be. Most ntcc women have been out of the workforce for several years and would have a difficult time getting a good paying job. Women with children have an even harder road ahead of them in the ntcc. They have to rely on their husband to have success in the ministry and deal with the blame and guilt that has been placed on them for having children that destroy their husbands ministries. It's an uphill battle all the way.
The husbands don't know it but they are almost just as powerless as the women in the ntcc. They are completely hamstrung and can not provide well for their families under the restrictions that are placed on their employment opportunities by the ntcc. They are only allowed to get jobs that don't interfere with their church schedules, which means 9-5 pretty much. Their wives can't work so they have to make an income large enough to support their wives, families and their ministries. If they can't put it together right away they are plowed for not having enough God to make things happen.
Were women treated this way in the early church? Let's take a look at how women were treated in the early church. First of all, women were allowed to have jobs. Acts 18:2-3 "And found a certain Jew named Aquila, born in Pontus, lately come from Italy, with his wife Priscilla; (because that Claudius had commanded all Jews to depart from Rome:) and came unto them. And because he was of the same craft, he abode with them, and wrought: for by their occupation they were tentmakers." So not only did Paul have a job, unlike Davis or Kekel, but Aquila and his wife Priscilla were of the same trade as Paul and were all tent makers. They worked with their hands and made money so they didn't have to burden the new churches they were starting. Aquila and Priscilla were also fellow laborers who traveled a lot with Paul and were mentioned several times in the New Testament. How often are women in the ntcc mentioned as Fellow Laborers or helpers. They also had a church in their house. They had a job and a church in their house. They were practical and didn't want to waste a bunch of money on a building until there were enough members who were able and willing to support a building without being told to pay tithe or go to hell.
ReplyDeletePaul salutes the many women that labored with him in the ministry, but you never hear of Kekel or Davis saluting women. They are to busy using them for their own lustful purposes. John also wrote the Epistle of Second John to the Elect Lady and her children and commended them for walking with God and warned them to watch out for False Teachers that taught doctrines other than what were being taught by the apostles. Like the doctrines of tithe and women working and women not having a place in the church. He was saying watch out for these devils that are just like the ntcc leadership who only care about money. He said not only not to let these false teachers into your house, but don't bid them God speed either. Bidding them God Speed is like being a partaker with them of their evil deeds. And then John finished it by saying, "The children of thy elect sister greet thee". The ntcc leadership doesn't refer to any of the sisters in the ntcc as elect.
What choices are left for a woman in the ntcc? Not many. The first thing that a woman in the ntcc should do is get a job. I know it goes against everything they teach, but only because they teach false doctrine. Why would Paul commend Aquila's wife Priscilla for her labors if she had a job and it was a sin? Paul has never said a woman can not work and the ntcc is preaching yet another false doctrine if they keep you from getting a job.
I don't know what's worse: the fact that Creflo Dollar believes God spoke to him and told him to buy this jet, or the fact that people are so gullible and delusional and are actually supporting this guy. Of course, as Dollar puts it, it's simply part of what he calls "prosperity theology," in other words, giving of your own money to the church because by doing so your level of personal wealth is blessed and will grow significantly.
ReplyDeleteIt's not surprising, really, that people buy into this nonsense. After studying mental toughness training for the last 31 years, there's a definite pattern of people who are operating from a weak state of mind to be more vulnerable to the suspension of critical thinking and doing anything that makes them feel better. Being addicted to the emotion of hope is a killer, so when Pastor Dollar tells them to give $300.00 and reminds them of the promise of everlasting life, a mansion in the sky and being reunited with loved ones, it sure sounds pretty good.
The bottom line: It's time for people to wake up and stop being stupid! Stop being manipulated and giving your money to the power hungry religious leader who owns two Rolls Royce cars and multiple multi-million-dollar homes. Creflo Dollar is a fake. If he was so genuinely concerned about doing good and Godly deeds, he would be raising $65 million to truly make a difference in the lives of so many. Instead, he'll be enjoying a better than first-class experience as he jets around the world in style laughing at the farce he created.
I've wracked my brain trying to come up with a solution to this problem, but the only answer I can come up with is to escape from the ntcc as soon as you can. Find some way out. Repair your relationship with your family and ask them to loan you some money till you can get back on your feet or even if it means staying with them until you can get a job and a car. Perhaps the best way out is to convince your husband that he is in a cult. Ask him if he believes the bible and show him in the bible where the ntcc is teaching false doctrine. If you love and pray for him and try to show him that you are being set up for failure in the ntcc, if you show him in the bible that the ntcc is preaching false doctrine maybe he will leave with you. Tell him, "I can not be true to God while following all of the man made rules in the ntcc. I have to leave because I can not watch people being used and trampled under foot to make a few people rich. I can not be a part of demanding people to give away their future finances and time so that Kekel can continue to get rich. I can not relinquish all my rights as a woman and watch us struggle to get by while the ntcc board members have all the creature comforts a person could ever want." You have to ask yourself, "What am I really accomplishing"? "Will things ever be right in this organization"? Think about it. Do you want to spend the rest of your life cleaning your husbands crusty boogers out of his handkerchiefs because you can't afford to by a box of Puffs? Davis used to preach against papertowels, saying they cost a penny a piece and you are throwing away God's money if you use them. That is one more cent per paper towel per household that could be going into his wallet. So you find yourself becoming a slave to make someone else rich. You use cloth diapers, rags to clean counters, hankerchiefs with crusty boogers as you take on more responsibilities to save a dime here or a dime their and you never get ahead in life. You become more of a slave. You water down your dish soap and your hand soap so you have to scrub harder and use twice as much. Do you see what they are doing to you? I can promise you that Verna uses Puff's brand tissues to clean the crusty boogers out of her nose and Tanya uses all the brand name disposable wipes to keep herself clean and smelling fresh also. The next time you clean her house see what kind of disposable products they use compared to what you can afford and ask yourself, "Does God love you as much as He loves Tanya and Mike"? Do you really want to spend the rest of your life in a church that requires you to pinch every penny in your bank account so that a few hustling money grubbing religious crooks can have every amenity life has to offer while you have to use dirty underwear with holes in it for rags to clean your toilet? Do you think God would rather have you live like this or to find a healthy church that doesn't burden you down with a bunch of man made rules that serve to make their church leaders rich?
ReplyDeleteAren't you tired of going to church hungry and in rags?
ReplyDeleteOnce in Tillicum SvcMHome, someone made noise using too much TP. RW was sleeping in the BR next to the bathroom. Next night he preached about it... A waste of God's money. I thought about having hundreds delivered in the middle of his next sermon via UPS, etc... But really all the giving would easy pay for 1 roll of TP. Come on RW, souls going to hell, and you would dare preach a minute about a few sheets of TP? It showed me his true nature even then on 1973. Yeech.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteAren't you tired of going to church hungry and in rags?
DNA said:
People do get tired and worn out. Most of the pictures you see of ministers and their wives on Facebook and twitter all have the same look. They look tired and worn out. They force smiles that normally wouldn't be there and it doesn't look real because the muscles in their face that are supposed to be used for smiling are very seldom used. It looks fake when they smile because the wrinkles in their skin were made by years of frowning and scowling so when they smile, their mouth and lips contrast the wrinkles and lines in their faces. It's from years of being in subject to rules that make no sense. They are doing things over and over again as trained behavior but there is no logic or common sense behind what they are expected to do or the rules they are expected to keep. You pay your tithe every payday on time to the penny or over but you never see any improvement for your tithe dollars. The same old worn out faces in conference every year. People come and people go but the organization dies a slow death in front of your eyes. The numbers have dwindled and they hold on to what little hope they think they have. It's actually pretty sad to give your future away to people who care nothing about your future. It's always, "What can you do for me now"? or "How can I use this person"? When you live below your means long enough and you are constantly drug through the routine of knocking on doors and going to church five times a week, you would think there would be a change in the people around you or that you would be working towards something tangible and that you would be able to see the fruit of your labor.
In the ntcc it's not that way. It could be if those in charge were not in it for their own greedy purposes. The average ntcc church member is not guilty of not doing enough to reach the lost. They are not guilty of not trying hard enough to do the right thing. They are not guilty of hoarding all their money to themselves. Most average ntcc'rs do what they have been taught and what they think is right. What they are guilty of is allowing others to manipulate them into thinking Christianity is all about sacrificing their future to the wrong group of Characters. The average ntcc'r gets beaten down and indoctrinated by professional religious con artists and they believe that people like Davis and Kekel are men who have been greatly blessed by Gawd. They believe that whatever they teach is truth and they don't study or believe the actual words that are in the bible. They trust without verifying the truth. If Davis or Kekel said it, it must be the truth. So what if they are rich. People think that the leadership deserves to have nice things while they struggle.
Col. 3:25 "But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons."
ReplyDeleteWrong is wrong, and you and I and Davis and Kekel and Olson and Ashmore and Gesang and Kinson and Johnson and Jones are all going to receive for the wrong we have done. So are every ntcc'r and X-er on the planet. It would behoove a person to know the difference between right and wrong. It all goes back to love. If you love God, you will love your neighbor. If you love your neighbor you will not do things to hurt your neighbor. If you love your neighbor, you are not going to tell them to be warmed and filled and not give them the things they request if it is in your power to give. Try going over to Kekel's house in the middle of the night. He probably wont even wake up to answer the intercom that keeps you locked out of his property, and if he does, he is not going to get up and give you any food to feed your family with in the middle of the night. He'll jack you up during the next church service. You have to get through two gates to get to Kekel's front door and some other flunkie board member probably vets all the visitors to the bonco. If you get past that gate, I'm sure Kekel would love to greet you in the middle of the night with a warm smile and a giving heart. It's up to you to sort all of this out. You can stay in the ntcc the rest of your life and hope that when it's all over that you have done enough good deeds for the ntcc leadership to get to heaven or you start providing for your families and being responsible with your finances. You can live by grace and learn to do the most important things that the ntcc never teaches you. They have made you believe that it's next to impossible to make it to heaven, but it's actually the opposite. If their ever was a period in time where it was easier to make it into heaven it's now. You don't have to be a Jew anymore and you don't have to keep the law. If you mess up you can find forgiveness and there will always be a place for you in heaven as long as you can forgive yourself and ask for forgiveness. The ntcc doesn't own the rights to your salvation. They can't even be forward about what they do with your money. They can't even have an ounce of transparency or accountability when it comes to church finances. The Lion share of your money is going into their mansions, Recreational Vehicles, cars and furnishings for their own greedy purposes while they rail against you for not caring enough about souls and they blast you for not being able to put things together in the ministry. They make absurd profits of of the real estate and charge you Usury, (Interest), contrary to God's word and you accept it in the name of Christianity and because you think you are doing God's work. We can only share this with you and hope that you will find your way to freedom, but you have to do the rest. The ntcc has been exposed over and over and over again. It is no secret that they are nothing more than a cult organization whose leadership is getting filthy rich with the tithes and offerings you give to them. We know it's a difficult decision to make because we each had to make it. Leaving the ntcc is not leaving God.
Brother D said...
ReplyDeleteOnce in Tillicum SvcMHome, someone made noise using too much TP. RW was sleeping in the BR next to the bathroom. Next night he preached about it... A waste of God's money.
DNA said:
I can almost see R-Dub waking up to the sound of a TP dispenser rolling off too many sheets of tissue. It takes a really sick and spiritually dead person to preach against people using too much toilet paper. Who wants a church full of people with stinky butts? Man, please use as much toilet paper as you need and use as much soap to wash your hands as you need when you are finished! There are some things that you just don't want to skimp on and toilet paper is one of those things. That's why I don't like eating at the Old Country Barfay, or any Buffet. Truck stops have buffets. I've been at the sink washing my hands before dinner and noticed truck drivers coming out of the stalls and walking straight past the sinks, grabbing the door handle and walking out of the restroom without washing their hands. I've seen them go straight into the restaurant and walk up to the buffet and grabbing the utensils to shovel food onto their plates and then grabbing bread with their bare hands. Who knows what kind of microscopic germs are being slung all over everyone else's supper. Maybe Davis had some issues with uncleanness or something of that effect, but to ration out toilet paper is just nasty. That is definitely not a Christian thing to do.
Never heard the TP story before. That's a good one.
ReplyDeleteIt's interesting to see church doctrines falling by the wayside. I'm sure this one about women's role in the church will evolve as well. Mike Keckel simply can't command the authoritarian role of cult leader to enforce garbage like this. No one fears him because he doesn't come across as anointed by God but rather anointed by God part 2 (Davis).
I was interested in the photo of the last graduation ceremony. The women looked healthy and happy and by NTCC norms very normal. More girls than guys graduated as well which was interesting to me. I would have thought they'd be churning out male serviceman but it was down to a handful.
Mike
I had a pastor that bragged and said," I don't lie, I just know how to choose my words well". Well I know for a FACT he was wrong in many ways he did and said so therefore it comes to show he covered up a lot of his wrong doings instead of manning up and do an old fashion appology for his actions. And that was going on for years. What a total abuse of authority.
ReplyDeleteWomen used to preach in NTCC (even at conferences), and were ordained as ministers. I remember Helen Ashmore, Rachel Wright, and Veronica Medina preaching regularly. But that died down pretty quickly, and I don't think it had happened for many years when we left in '95. Jessie King might have been the last one ordained, unless it was Tanya. RW continued to marginalize women until they were relegated to the status they "enjoy" today. Women, I'm with DnA--rise up and throw off those NTCC shackles. Any man who loves you won't keep you under his thumb.
ReplyDeleteThe cat with a hoarde of hotdogs reminds me of Tanya and Mike. They can have all the mansions and sports cars, a new set of golf clubs and a yacht on the bay... but they will still be empty inside.
ReplyDeleteHe's a fat cat too!
DeleteMike said:
ReplyDelete"I would have thought they'd be churning out male serviceman but it was down to a handful."
DNA said:
That's good news. The less men there are in the ntcc the fewer women will be enslaved to them for the rest of their lives. Hopefully they continue to wise up. We are winning!
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"I had a pastor that bragged and said," I don't lie, I just know how to choose my words well".
DNA said:
That's how ntcc pastors get away with so much. They live on the edge and do many things that are just not right. They find a way to explain what they do without telling a bald faced lie. Kinson came on Chief's blog and had the nerve to do that. I don't know if he actually thought that nobody would catch him using his weasel words or if he was so used to ntcc'rs believing him all the time that he thought we would too. To defend himself from the accusations of retrieving his wallet out of a whore house, he said, I've never slept with anyone but my wife. What kind of answer is that? Nobody accused him of sleeping with anyone. You don't go to whore houses to sleep. If he wanted to convey his innocence he would have to have said, "I've never been in a whore house". Or "I never went to a whore house to retrieve my wallet". This is just one example out of hundreds of examples when you ask an ntcc minister a pointed question, they answer with weasel words. They don't answer the question directly.
I'm not saying that there is never a time that you don't want to show all your cards. Some people don't need to hear the truth or the truth is none of their business. For example, some people get down right nosey and start prying into your business as a total stranger. I was in a barber shop getting my hair cut and this woman kept asking where do you live? How old are you? Do you have a wife? Do you have any kids? What kind of car do you drive? I mean sometimes the truth is none of their business. But when you profess to be a holiness preacher and you preach to others that they are going to die an go to hell if they don't dress like their families up like the Little House on the Prairie, or they don't pay their tithe and then you visit a whore house, you might get asked some direct questions and people have a right to know when they are paying you to keep them in line. Ntcc preachers are stupid if they think they can require people to pay them their hard earned money to tell them how to live and what sins will send them to hell without expecting them to be accountable for their actions and transparent about how they spend your money. That's why they keep secrets in the ntcc, and people are excoriated for drawing any attention to the sins of the preachers in the ntcc. It's not your place to say anything. Mind your own business. Guess what? It is our business. We gave twenty two combined years of our lives and paid tithe to a bunch of swindling hucksters that live any way they want to and cover it all up with weasel words and lies while they carry sacks of your money to the bank. We've made it our business weather you ntcc'rs like it or not. You got to plow our fields from behind that pulpit for decades, now it's your turn. How do you like it when someone has your number and all you can do is sit there and take it? You all are helpless. Your masters in the ntcc have told you that you can't get on the blogs. You aren't even supposed to be reading this, and yet you do, but there is nothing you can say because deep down you know it's right.
Vic said:
ReplyDeleteRW continued to marginalize women until they were relegated to the status they "enjoy" today.
DNA said:
RW got down right cruel to women as he got older. I could tell by the way some of the local preachers carried on that they learned much of what they said from RW. Preaching to their wives that if they don't like what they say, pack your bags, here's a dime, call someone to pick you up. That basically sums up a woman's options in the ntcc. In conferences Davis used to single out women that were fat and tell them not to sit on the same church pew. He would say that those pews aren't made to support that much weight. He also would bring women to tears by plowing them under for having children and destroying their husbands ministries. He would talk about how horrible their cooking was and how they dressed as if they had the same shopping options that Verna and Tanya had. What could a woman do but sit there and take it.
I really respect and admire the women that have stood up against the ntcc and found a way out, and put things together to leave. I know this sounds horrible but knowing what I know now, I'd rather be homeless than be in a position of hopelessness in the ntcc. I know there are folks who have left, men and women, who have been homeless because they had nothing, no money, no skills, no experience in the work force, nothing. I respect them much more than some ntcc minister who is getting by off the sacrifices of others. I respect a homeless person who has to live in shelters and use food stamps or whatever government programs there are to survive than I do an ntcc preacher who gets supported by fraudulent extraction of tithes and offerings. I know people, (X-ntcc'rs), men and women who left and started out homeless but have found their way out of that situation and are doing much better in life now.
The ntcc is run much like human trafficking rings are run. They lie to people to get them in. They act like they love them. They promise them blessings and prosperity. They restrict their contact with family and friends. They control a person's identification documents; Don't ever let them take away your Driver's license. Women don't even get a minister's license anymore, so they have no proof that they have ever done anything in the ministry. Instead of Garnishing their wages like Human traffickers, they take away their wage making ability and make them slaves, (or housewives), if you want to call them that. Instead of threatening deportation, they threaten with eternity in hell. It's almost like the ntcc got their plan out of the Human Trafficker's Handbook.
ReplyDeleteInteresting take on the human trafficking rings. I would have to agree. In fact it's almost scary when you look at it that way.
ReplyDeleteI almost wish I would have left instead of faded away from a duty assignment. I'd have loved to have had this knowledge prior to getting out as I love a good fight. Nothing can put a bully in their place like fighting back with vengeance.
Just my 2 cents for the day.
Mike
Speaking of weasel words, one guy said that Tom Wright approached him before service and ordered "ask me about tithe." It was confusing, but he insisted so the man asked him. He got no answer, but a thank-you. A little bit into service, old Tom reveals "people have been asking me about tithe," and used that as an excuse to preach his message of financial bondage. Did he lie? Well, maybe he didn't tell a lie, but the bible speaks of making a lie, and if one does anything with the intent to deceive, that's what he's done.
ReplyDeleteThey're liars, and no amount of creative language will change that fact. Kekel and Kinson pulled the same crap when they responded to my allegation that both of them boasted to me about groping and making out with their young teen future wives. Mike said "we didn't go there" or some other such vague terminology, and Debbie said I never went on any "dates" with them, so I wouldn't know. Duh, no doubt--I wasn't in the secret club that was allowed to go on unchaperoned dates; the rest of us had to sit under the eagle eye of RW every minute. But my absence at their trysting sites didn't prevent Phil and Mike from describing the powerful urges and sensations that surged through their bodies while in intimate contact with their adolescent conquests. So they lied when they boasted, or they lied when they denied it. Either way--LIARS.
Phonies and hypocrites, fakes, swindlers, and charlatans. Liars, grifters, hucksters, rascals, and thieves. Lowdown scumbag con men. There are a few hundred other adjectives that also apply, but that's a start.
I'm so humiliated at attending this church for as long as I did.
ReplyDeleteI woke up after having left the TV on and it was a huckster televangelist talking about how sowing seeds has caused people to amass great fortunes from Beanie Babies. Guys name is Mike (go figure) Murdock. As a "Mike" myself this really ticks me off. I can see why the name Mike is going down in popularity with Kekel and this guy out there.
Mike
They can have all the mansions and sports cars, a new set of golf clubs and a yacht on the bay... but they will still be empty inside.
ReplyDeleteReply: My friend, that's where you are wrong. They are not empty inside. They are quite happy and content. I know it makes us feel better sometimes to think they are empty or unhappy or not content but they are doing just fine inside. They are living off all our money and quite well I might add. The empty ones are the blind followers who are broke while driving a bunch of junkers around. Material possessions at a minimum make life in this world a whole lot easier. That's a fact. My parents had plenty of money and they lived a really good life with much enjoyment. Broke people struggle in almost all aspects of their lives. Their relationships usually stink. They work their butts off often to never make any headway.
No, Mike and Tanya aren't doing bad at all. If they die and go to hell, half their congregation or more will be right there with them and if they don't, they'll have lived a whole lot better lives then most of us by far. The people in their church are deceived and according to the bible, you don't get a pass just cause you've been deceived. So who's better off? Mike and Tanya with the mansions, nice cars and so on, or all the broke dummies who are still stupid enough to follow them? Best thing you can do at some point is face the facts and realize that crooks often prosper and being the good deceived guy doesn't pay off.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete" My friend, that's where you are wrong. They are not empty inside. They are quite happy and content."
DNA said:
That's possible but not sure if it's really true. Having never obtained riches by destroying the lives of others, I'm not sure how happy I'd be if I got rich using the ntcc system. There are only a small handful of ntcc big wigs that live comfortably and have many of the creature comforts that we all want. If they are truly happy and at peace in their souls I would be surprised. Being happy and content are not dependent on having everything. There are a lot of rich people that end up blowing their brains out or having problems that most of the middle class and poor can't imagine. My neighbors that used to live across the street from me lived in a one bedroom house, had 3 acres and a couple cows. They were retired and had just enough money to live out their years. They didn't go out to eat very much neither had they the ability to buy nice clothes or many things that rich people want. But these people were the happiest couple I knew. They would cook meals and invite me over for dinner and we would watch John Wayne movies. They found joy in giving and you could see the contentment in their lives at just being able to do something for someone else that was appreciated. I have found this same peace of mind in life and it has little to do with money or possessions. I've had a lot, and I've had not so much. Looking back on my life the most fulfillment that I've ever experienced came from helping others as opposed to having a lot of nice things.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoy a new car and a nice house and things that make life fun. The ability to be able to go to a store and buy $500.00 of anything I want is a good feeling and one that I very seldom experienced in the ntcc. I'm not sure I could feel good about being filthy rich if I knew it took spiritual genocide to accumulate that wealth. I'm not sure Tanya and Mike are really that happy. I know they smile and act like everything is great on their cult compound, but I wonder how one lives with the knowledge and experience of obtaining monetary happiness by conning others out of their financial well being, and being downright cruel to their neighbors and those they call brothers. There has to be darkness and emptiness inside of them that they know will never be filled. I may be wrong, but it will be the first time. Just kidding, I've been wrong many times.
I would say 95% of men in NTCC wear slacks all the time and where ever they went (besides church). It's like when they got saved they threw their jeans away and made slacks their main attire or such like. Where that trend come from? Is it a passed down culture?
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know if Kenson has two daughters? I'm sooooooo sure that he does.
ReplyDelete"My friend, that's where you are wrong. They are not empty inside. They are quite happy and content. I know it makes us feel better sometimes to think they are empty or unhappy or not content, but they are doing just fine inside."
ReplyDeleteAnonymous 2015: Ride or Die said,
Respectfully disagree. If they were so happy they wouldn't attack people so viscously, have affairs, or try to squeeze a dime out of rock!
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone know if Kenson has two daughters? I'm sooooooo sure that he does.
DNA said:
It's Kinson with an i and as far as we know he's been married to his teen bride for quite some time. Kekel is about 9 years older than Tanya and it's conceivable that Kinson was old enough to have spawned a couple of kids prior to his marriage but we have nothing credible to suggest that he does have two kids. If you know something we don't know and have any thing tangible to add, you are welcome to leave a comment. It sound like you are fishing for someone to verify something that you heard or possibly know. Without any evidence or witnesses we can't say that it's true. I personally don't think very highly of Phil Kinson but I'm not going to endorse anyone's opinion that isn't substantiated by sometime of supporting evidence or witnesses. If he did have kids before joining the ntcc, that's really his business, although the ntcc uses info like this against other people. They'll dig up someone's past or find out personal info and use it against them. I think Tom Wright had children prior to being in the ntcc and that's his business. How he treated his daughter after she joined the ntcc and left her with another preacher and went to the Philippines is something that has been blogged about because it reeks of double standards and hypocrisy to not provide for your own children, while railing against others for their sins.
Does anyone want to guess how much money Davis paid for his last Recreational Vehicle? Anyone, Anyone? You can get a really nice one for a quarter million. Any guesses? How about $500.000.00,(1/2 million)? You can get a serious motor home for $500,000.00. Do a google search on Recreational Vehicles and see what $500,000.00 will get you. How about 3/4 of a million dollars? Anyone, Anyone? You can buy just about any Recreational Vehicle off the assembly line at that price. Do you think that would be enough to satisfy Davis? How about $1,000.000.00 in cold hard cash? You guessed it. He had his Recreational Vehicle specially made with granite counter tops. We talked to someone very credible with the inside scoop. We were told that a board member bragged about how Davis spent One Million bucks on his Recreational Vehicle with a King sized bed and three sliders. I would have to pay tithe for one hundred years to pay for such a ride. I'm sure Kekel probably has one too, unless he flies first class everywhere. How many tithe paying suckers does it take to pay for a One Million Dollar Recreational Vehicle?
ReplyDeleteThings are not going well in the ntcc. We have heard that during this last conference things were in a state of disarray. Ashmore was leaving and it appears a lot of people got sick of going through the motions and have left. We heard that Kekel is always telling people to stay away from the blogs, and the person who told us this often wondered how he knew they were so bad if nobody was allowed to read them. We know that a lot of people in bible school and ministers alike read this blog. We don't blame you for reading it. You will find out much more about what goes on in the ntcc by reading this blog than you will if you expect the ntcc leaders to come clean about things.
ReplyDeleteHere is a question for those of you in the ntcc that read our blog. If you are told not to read our blog, or if you know it's something that would not be approved of by the ntcc leadership, why do you read it? I'm not finding fault, or trying to get you to stop reading but I'm going somewhere with this. Did you know that the people that worry about others committing certain sins are often guilty of those sins? If a person says that you shouldn't talk to a member of the opposite sex because you might be tempted to commit sin that usually means that they would commit sin if they were the ones left alone with that member of the opposite sex. Rudy used to Rail against homosexuality. He would preach hell, fire and brimstone to all gay or lesbian people. He turned out to be the gayest of all. They are people with souls. If you are trying to help them you don't gather up rocks to stone them. But people often project their deeply seeded personal issues on others through preaching or pulpiteering.
The more Kekel tells you to ignore the blogs, the more he doesn't want you to know what is going on in the ntcc. Do you think he's going to tell you? He tries to wear a Ten Gallon hat on a pea sized head. Stay tuned because there are some serious things to deal with in the not so distant future.
Wow! A million bucks.
ReplyDeleteAnd the extra he paid to fontenot to draw one of his murals on the side of the rv, unless it was done for free.
I remember that you could admire the huge rv from outside only and if you were worthy enough you might receive an invitation to go inside.
What a joke. And to think that we were duped into thinking that we were blessed by looking at him enjoy all the luxuries that money can buy and then turning around and spitting on our faces saying you are not partaking of my blessings because you are not par to par with the likes of me.
I think the thing Kekel hates the most is the idea where there is someplace to call him out. To call him an entitled punk, a cult leader who's failing and on and on.
ReplyDeleteTo someone like him, being told you're a failure is something no amount of sports cars and Rolex watches will be able to heal.
Mike
I think someone touched on it, but Kekel has to be purposely getting rid of the holiness old timers. You can't reconcile what has happened over the last 40 years and all of a sudden start watching TV and going to Catholic school. These guys preached hell fire and now what? Oh never mind, just kidding?
ReplyDeleteExplain it? Even if you think we're all liars you've got to have personal experiences that aren't matching up from what happened 10 years ago to now. If you're just now getting in I don't know what to tell you but just look around at the testimonies. Where there is smoke...
Mike
Unless they're love children born of PHILandering, Kinson doesn't have any kids. He was sucked into the borg at 17; I was there when it happened. He came to visit his brother in Tacoma when Chris and I were still in the Army during a conference. Phil got saved, went back to New Hampshire to get his stuff and was in BS within a couple weeks. They don't roll like that anymore, but back then they were more desperate for students and you didn't need to jump through many hoops to get admission.
ReplyDeleteI feel sorry for Phil. He was my friend; we lived together and had some great times. I know that he at least used to have some decency inside. Those soul snatchers got to him and twisted him up before he even knew what was happening. They stole his life and married him off for safekeeping. He's a casualty for sure. Although what he's doing can't be condoned, he's definitely the product of some serious mind warping. I hope he mans up someday and throws off their shackles.
If they were so happy they wouldn't attack people so viscously, have affairs, or try to squeeze a dime out of rock!
ReplyDeleteReply: I know people who love being in control who are quite happy. I know people who verbally attack a lot of people who live a very good prosperous life. I know people who have affairs who sleep very well at night. It's a whole lot easier to be happy with money than it is to be happy when you are broke. Who do you think is happier? Mike and Tanya with money or the vast majority of broke people in the NTCC? The vast majority of broke people are more envious of Mike and Tanya than the other way around. Believe it. You see Christians often convince themselves that people who they consider to be wicked have it so bad when in reality it's the other way around.
That's what often makes many Christians and broke people feel better about their own bleak situations. They convince themselves that people like Mike and Tanya must be so miserable. Mike and Tanya don't care how they obtained their money. They've probably convinced themselves that God actually has blessed them. Well thinking that Mike and Tanya are so miserable or going to hell doesn't make me feel one bit better because no one really knows for certain where they are headed when they die. You can say you know but you don't. There is one thing I do know. Being broke ain't no fun. I don't agree with Mike and Tanya's methods but don't think they are too unhappy with their situation.
That's the same thing they taught in the NTCC. They would say: Look at all the rich people with good jobs who don't serve God. They are all dying and going to hell but we are all going to heaven. Praise God. We have it so much better than they do.
That's how they brainwash you. They try to make you feel good about being broke and destitute because you are supposed to be the one going to heaven. Going to heaven in the NTCC. Really? What did you do in the NTCC so that you could go to heaven? Accept Christ? Mike and Tanya accepted Christ as much as anyone else? So they are crooks. Everyone in the NTCC who gave them money supported the crooks. Christ said that many will be deceived by false prophets. A false prophet with money is more happy than a broke person who they deceived. Being real.
All right, all right, we know that money doesn't buy happiness. But let's be honest: More money doesn't exactly make us miserable, either.
ReplyDeleteThe wealthy enjoy an intangible benefit that often eludes the paycheck-to-paycheck worker: a sense of control over their lives. They feel secure in their jobs and less stressed about their futures. (Plus, they can order room service instead of trying to make three meals out of a Subway sandwich.)
But are they much happier than the rest of us wage-earning, '90s-model-Camry-driving schlubs? Not really.
Rich! Happy? Not really
Studies show that lottery winners, heiresses, and the 100 richest Americans are only slightly more satisfied than the guy toiling for his pay in the generic office-park cubicle. Still, mere mortals find it difficult to allow that an extra digit or two on the paycheck won't put a permanent smile on our faces.
Why is it so hard to accept the idea that increased wealth doesn't markedly improve our mental health?
Happy amnesia
The ability to imagine -- to try to predict our future state of mind -- is what sets us apart from less-evolved species. It's also the very thing that stunts our shot at true happiness.
We assume that a sportier car, a bigger house, a better-paying job, or that dress will bring us joy because, well, they did in the past, right?
Not really, says Daniel Gilbert, a Harvard psychology professor and the author of Stumbling on Happiness. "Research reveals that memory is less like a collection of photographs than it is like a collection of impressionist paintings rendered by an artist who takes considerable license with his subject," Gilbert writes. We forget that the new-car high deflated well before our first trip to the mechanic, and the raise came with stressful late nights at the office and a steeper tax tab.
Our appetite for self-destruction
ReplyDeleteWhat's so wrong with relishing and embellishing the good? It's costly. Faulty emotional recall makes us do dumb things with our money, like buying cool new stuff that never quite satisfies.
In so many areas, we know when enough is enough. When we're healthy, we don't strive for extreme health. After a good meal, we're sated -- we don't order another filet mignon to augment our satisfaction.
Yet our "pause" button shorts out when it comes to money. The brief pick-me-up that accompanies a raise or windfall (think of it like a caffeine buzz) drives us to want more. We get a raise, spend it, adapt to our improved circumstances, and seek more money, working up a sweat on what University of Southern California economist Richard Easterlin calls the hedonic treadmill.
But somehow the happy-o-meter stays in the same place, or even slows down. Consider that the average American is less satisfied with life today than we were in the 1950s -- yet we earn twice as much (and, yes, that's adjusted for inflation). No wonder they never crown a winner of the rat race.
How much is enough?
Absent total emotion recall and the ability to recognize when we've hit our happy set point, what will make us happy? How's $50,000 a year sound? That's the contentment calculation from a Roper/ASW survey a few years ago.
Of course, the amount is relative, but consider what it represents to the average (non-Manhattan-rent-paying) American: It's enough to cover the bills and have some fun money left over.
After that, each incremental move up the pay scale has less long-term emotional impact. A 20% raise won't make you 20% happier. And, in fact, chasing that extra 10 grand might just make you miserable.
So the guy in the corner office may actually be more bummed out than those of us in the cheap seats. Does that news bring a smile to your face? If so, it’s OK with us.
I actually see and understand both sides of this argument. The Lottery winner for instance. It's a proven fact and statistics show that a large number of Lottery winners burn through their money and end up 10 times more miserable than they were before winning. But on the other hand, who wouldn't want to hold a winning lottery ticket, and how much fun can you have burning through all that money? I'd be willing to take the risk. I'm all for having more money. They say money can't buy happiness but it sure goes a long way towards the down payment. I think that just about every person on the planet would be more than glad to win a million dollars.
ReplyDeleteThis is where it comes down to the individual person that actually has the cash in hand to choose what they are going to do with it. I'm sure it would make a person happy and reduce the stress in their lives but what determines the level of happiness that person enjoys will be the choices they make and how they spend it. Do you think if a person were to take that money and blow it all in a year or two and treat everyone around them like trash, and use their new fame and fortune to get revenge on people or to make people miserable, that it would bring more hapiness into their life than it would the person who bought a $200,000.00 house and a $30,000.00 car and invested the rest for their future. It's not the money that makes people happy, because than everyone that was rich would be happy and there are a lot of miserable rich people walking around on planet earth.
My point is that there are two sides to this. I personally think that people who obtain their money through fraud and spend their lives stepping on other people are not as happy inside as they appear to be on the outside. I think there are a lot of responsible people that have money and enjoy life and have no reason to feel any type of guilt because they earned their money and didn't hurt a bunch of people along the way. I don't know that anyone can say what a narcissist feels inside. Is it possible that Mike and Tanya are happier than the ones that made them rich. I would seem so, but who knows what goes on in their hearts. I don't think any of us really can say we know how they feel inside.
It all comes down to conscience. People can sear their conscience. Have you ever hurt someone and felt bad about it? I have and until I make it right with that person, I don't feel good about my self. I guess the more you hurt people the easier it becomes to hurt them again. At some point you have to sear your conscience. People like Davis, Mike and Tanya have no conscience. They are beyond the point of feeling bad every time they do wrong to someone. I'm sure they have lied to themselves so many times that they actually believe they are right and everyone else is wrong. They believe inside that they are just as God is and if anyone challenges them, they are challenging God.
ReplyDeleteI have no idea what that would feel like. I'm sure they are beyond conviction and there is nobody that can tell them anything they don't want to hear. They haven't had to answer to anyone for anything they have done.
Recently the Founder of Word of Faith Fellowship was placed on the stand to testify in a court proceeding against one of the WOFF members. Jane Waley, the founder of WOFF was in a position she had not been in for decades. She was not in control of the conversation. The judge had to tell her several times to stop rambling on and answer the question. The defense attorney also told her to limit her answers to the questions being asked. Because she had no experience in having to answer for the things she has done to other people, she lost the case and all the money that she had to pay her lawyers. She went after a former member of her cult for stalking her and writing threatening text messages to her. When the Jury seen how miserable she was towards other people they dismissed the case. This is a woman that has no conscience. The cult she runs is even more abusive than the ntcc. The seasoned members all circle around the new ones and scream at them at the top of their lungs for long periods of time. They physically coerce other members to confess their sins. Members of this cult are even harder to rescue than ntcc members. They think they are a part of the only true move of God on earth, but they are controlled way more than your average ntcc cult member. I don't think this woman exhibits much happiness in spite of her wealth, but then again I don't know what goes on in her mind.
I don't think the kekls bother at all thinking how they acquired their riches.
ReplyDeleteIf you were inside the ntcc and spent time with them u would know.
They don't care period!
I can tell you the times that I was around them and all they talked about was how hard it was to have all those luxury items.
She would play mind games with you.
I remember one time she had some people over and she left her hot water running in her sink while she was doing something, the ladies were curious about what to do, should they turn it off or not, after 5 minutes one of them turned it off.
Out comes tk and turns the water back on again and leaves it running again so this time nobody dared to touch the faucet until she turned it off.
Those skits they put on at the conferences can attest to what they thought of ALL of us working our butts off trying to bring people out to church.
Oh, it slipped my mind and I forgot to mention that Davis's Recreational Vehicle had two flat screen TV's in it that were operational. Of course he told Brother Ken that he was the only one spiritual enough to watch TV and that he had to keep up with current events while the other preachers had no time to watch TV.
ReplyDeleteBrother Ken I learned very fast no to give them money, I paid what I owed, and when Olson wanted me to round up, I made it very clear that I would, but it was going to be the nearest dollar, so if I owed some thing in change .50 and be low was going to the lower dollar amount, he was furies, Off to Davis I had to go, he tried to real on me but I would not have it, I told him isn't that what you take my tax refund dollars for, I told him. it is your wards isn't that we should pay 10% on it in case we owed God money, not that the world was giving us gifts, or we could having any money, after they took it. and then there was the piano, for those who remember in 1981 the collection for a new piano, I was sitting in the back of the church at Forest AV. I like all the other brothers raised my hand to donate, after the collection was taken I realized they had enough money to buy a couple of pianos, so I went to the office to take back my pledge, well there goes Olson no you can't do that, you made it to God, no I told him I made it to the church. off to the up stairs office I go to Davis, he told me I could not do that, I said yes I can, I just won't pay it. now he was really mad, Now pay attention all you NTCC former and present people I then asked him is it just me or is it ironic, that every time tax refund comes around then all the sudden out of no where there is this great need for money, for some project or another, and the only time you can get extra money from us is because we have a tax refund. he jumped out of his chair slammed his hands on the desk and shook his hand at me and said you think your so smart don't you, I told him not really just observant. I told him it just seemed to me that it was the only way you could get extra money from us. so now you are warned you NTCC keep your own tax refund for your self's not them.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI don't think the kekls bother at all thinking how they acquired their riches.
DNA said:
I agree with you. They have no conscience whatsoever. I think that it's pretty warped to play mind games like you mentioned with the water. It's like doing an experiment on how you can mess with people's minds. What kind of people do that? Miserable people. No good, phony, hypocritical, fake oxygen stealing hucksters. They steal from people and play tricks on them.
I have another opinion that I believe to be true with Davis and it's probably true with Mike and TK also. I think they know for a fact that they are not Christians. I think Davis knew for a fact the entire time he was over the ntcc that he was not saved and didn't care to be. I think they know what they have created and they realize that it's all a big money making scheme to con people out of their money. They have to pretend to some degree that they are Christians, or preachers, but as long as the money keeps flowing in, that's all they care about. I think they get together in their board meetings and laugh at how stupid people are. I don't think Davis ever believed he was going to heaven, nor did he lie to himself. He saw an opportunity to make a ton of money off of a group of gullible Christian and knew that they would be easy targets and laughed all the way to his grave. I don't think he's laughing now because I believe God is real, and I think that the last person on earth that would make it to heaven is a religious con artist that purposely makes people miserable so that he can get rich. Davis never practiced what he preached. Olson is nothing more than a figure head and Kekel is the heir apparent to a multi-million dollar cult compound and real estate empire. No wonder Ashmore left and hundreds have left along with him. People are stupid and gullible to a point, but there is no justification for Ashmore leaving. The ntcc can't spin a lie big enough to make the naive masses believe that leaving the ntcc is the same as leaving God. Kekel is a 98 pound weekling compared to Ashmore. Kekel can't preach his way out of a wet paper bag and has done nothing to gain the level of respect that people had for Ashmore. There are a lot of people feel like Ashmore was a big part in ruining their lives but if you compare Kekel to Ashmore, It's like comparing a pop bottle rocket to an H bomb. Ashmore has done everything that Kekel has tried to do and more. That's why ntcc is called ntcc inc. because it's a business. It's being handed down to family and often when that happens the business suffers because it is being run by an underling that has no experience. Tanya runs Mike like Davis ran the ntcc. Give them a few years and enough rope to hang themselves and there won't be much left, because to put it bluntly, the Kekels suck at leadership.
Someone recently told me, "I still pay tithes and give offerings. Been following that for years. Not just for NTCC, but because of love and I trust his promises."
ReplyDeleteSo this guy, let's just call him "Fat Albert", felt a need to justify himself for paying tithe and giving in offerings. Been following that for years, he says. Following that? Interesting choice of words. Fat Albert didn't claim that he was following God's word or the bible or God's will. He said, "I've been following "that" for years. I wonder how many of his tithe dollars went into Davis's one million dollar Recreational Vehicle? I wonder how many of his tithe dollars went into the luxurious mansions that were built up in Graham to house the lazy and non working self proclaimed ntcc apostles, who find it necessary to live like the Hollywood Elite off of everyone else's hard earned money? Fat Albert says Not just because of the ntcc, but because of love, and he trusts 'his' promises. Let's assume that "Albert" is talking about God when he says 'his' promises. I must have missed that part of the bible that says that if we love or trust God's promises that we will pay tithe. Oh, I know, Fat Albert must be giving heads of cabbage and corn to the ntcc leadership because he read in the old testament that if he did what the old testament law required concerning tithe, that God would open heaven and pour out his blessings upon him. There is no commandment in the bible for Gentiles to pay tithe and there never was, so the only promise that this guy 'Albert' must be talking about is the one concerning the Levitical order of tithe. Albert must be a Jew and he must be keeping the entire law, because it is written, "For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them." Gal 3:10 If you are a Jew and you are going to keep the law of Moses than you better keep all of it, and if you do you are still living under the curse.
What Fat Albert and the rest of the ntcc needs is a good dose of Salvation. They need to stop trying to apply the Jewish Old Testament law of tithe to the New Testament Gentiles for the purpose of becoming stinking filthy rich. They need Christ and Salvation. What they are doing is not just contrary to the bible but it defies human decency. Do you know how much tithe has to be paid for Davis to purchase a One Million Dollar Recreational Vehicle? The tithe on Ten Million Dollars worth of income. Back when Davis got his Million Dollar Recreational Vehicle I'd guess that the average tithe payer in the ntcc made $25,000.00 per year. That is a very liberal estimate because many of the ntcc slaves worked for barely above minimum wage. It would take 400 tithe payers one year of paying tithe on their annual salary to bring in One Million Dollars of tithe money. Does Davis and Kekel really love souls? Do they really love God? They are playing all of you ntcc'rs for complete and absolute fools and they are taking all your money for themselves with very little going towards God's work, and all you ntcc'rs are enabling them.
Vic, since you were there at the beginning can I ask what was the straw that broke your back? What caused you to leave?
ReplyDeleteBro. Ken said:
ReplyDelete"Off to Davis I had to go, he tried to rail on me but I would not have it, I told him isn't that what you take my tax refund dollars for, I told him. it is your words isn't that we should pay 10% on it in case we owed God money, not that the world was given us gifts, or we could having any money, after they took it."
DNA said:
Good job sticking up for yourself Bro. Ken. When people use words like "owe" tithe or "pay" tithe, they are misrepresenting the bible. Tithe was never taught to the Gentiles and since we no longer live under the law, if anyone tells you that you owe tithe or that you are obligated to pay tithe they are teaching you false doctrine. People are so uneducated and theologically challenged when they try to drag tithe out of the Old Testament Levitical order and apply it to the New Testament Gentiles that live under the Grace of Jesus Christ which did away with the Law. The only place that tithe was ever paid in the Old Testament was to the Levites. The Levites didn't get rich off of the tithe that was paid, but they had jobs that pertained to the keeping of Sacraments that were necessary to push our sins forward another year. They had no land or crops of their own so the other tribes supported them with tithe which was agricultural.
The ntcc and many other money grubbing churches have taken this Old Testament law and changed it without consulting the bible. They have changed it in every possible way it could be changed. Tithe is no longer paid to the Levites, it is paid to New Testament Pastors who preach tithe or hell. Tithe is now required to be paid or owed by each member of a tithe believing church and it is now paid in Cash. Tithe was paid in the old Testament every three years, but now it's paid every pay day. Tithe was used to support the Levitical priesthood but now it's used to buy One Million Dollar Recreational Vehicles, 1/4 Million dollar cars, Multi million Dollar homes with their exquisite furnishings and amenities and all the nice clothes and things that money can buy for a chosen few that are never satisfied with what they have. If you are paying tithe in the ntcc, you are not doing something that is required by God. You are not even doing something that is pleasing to God. You are enabling a bunch of religious crooks to get rich off of the church members that God has given to you as a pastor to look after their welfare. You are supposed to be a Shepard, but you are nothing more to the ntcc leadership than a pawn to be moved around on their sick little chess board. Let's move this ntcc preacher from being a pastor of a church to riding a pew, because he isn't producing the money and numbers that pad our bank accounts the way we have grown accustomed to. Let's groom this sister to become an ntcc wife so that we can strip her of her rights and dreams and marry her off to some abusive Jerk that's on his third ntcc bride. If you pay your tithe you are enabling a bunch of sick ntcc false prophets and teachers to ruin many lives.
Well, I wasn't there from the beginning; that would be Darwin. I first went to the Tillicum church in 1978, and went off to BS in 1980. I bought into everything and took it seriously. We, like many others, endured all kinds of deprivation and abuse just to remain "faithful" to God and the "call." I studied the bible obsessively and did my best to reconcile everything I read. Because of the expert conditioning to which we were all subjected, I remained for many years in strong denial. But no amount of self-deception can withstand the blatant hypocrisy and conspicuous consumption of the NTCC "leadership." After observing them behaving in an entirely unchristlike manner for years, the sick reality began to dawn on me that they were nothing whatsoever like Jesus. I couldn't imagine Jesus being as petulant and infantile as RW or his cronies when they didn't get their way, and Jesus never treated people with the cruelty they routinely demonstrated.
ReplyDeleteRW was an expert at discerning when his grip over an individual was beginning to slip, and it wasn't long before the running-off process began. I started getting both barrels from the pulpit; even got called out as a "Judas." I was removed from the teaching roster with no warning or explanation; they just announced the teachers from the pulpit and left my name out. The last service I attended was on a Thursday night, and Mark Curry was the designated hatchet man. He ranted and railed and acted like a basic jerk. I collared RW afterward and informed him I was leaving. I had resolved not to sneak away in the night, but I was still tremulous about confronting him. Even then I figured he'd want to talk, but he just looked at me with intense hatred and all he said was "OK." Immediately all my uncertainties vanished and I knew positively that I'd made the correct decision. It still was shocking to learn that all the "love" had been fake and that he didn't even care enough after I'd sacrificed sixteen years and tens of thousands of dollars to persuade me to stay, or even sit down and find out why I was leaving. But I guess he was right; what could he say? He knew I was off my NTCC meds and wanted me out of there before I infected others.
Also, our kids were a huge factor. The NTCC philosophy on child rearing was failing miserably, and I began to understand the bleak future that awaited them in the borg. My daughter was thirteen, and already grown men were ogling her and jockeying to move in. My son was ten and timid from the traumatization caused by a lifetime of occupying the lowest rung of abuse in the NTCC universe. We knew that the only acceptable path was for them to go to BS (guess Mike never got that memo), but I saw how most kids bailed out as soon as they were able. It became apparent that the "leadership" departed radically from the bible in their attitudes towards children. Being a father really opened my eyes to how God relates to us, and there was no way I could continue to believe that God, the perfect father, would subject us to things I would never put my own kids through. Those insights may be one reason NTCC discourages family life; they know that people who might not care for themselves enough to resist them will fight to the death for their kids (plus they also wanted to make sure that the money it takes to raise kids would go to them instead).
To anyone on the fence, I know how it is. You're afraid. You've been programmed to believe that you will burn in an eternal lake of fire for "abandoning" the "call." Don't subject yourself to their guilt and fear tactics. The only regret you will have about leaving is that it didn't happen sooner. I was afraid until the moment I left; then a wave of euphoria and joy swept over me and I felt like I was walking three feet off the ground. We were exuberant with laughter in the car on the way home, and even though there have been rough spots, things only improved from there. Do it--you'll be glad.
ReplyDeleteI doubt any of the NTCC "leadership" is wallowing in misery. These guys are sociopaths, and they don't have the same emotional constitution as the rest of us. That's what enabled them to control us for so long. We can't even imagine being insensate to the pain and suffering of others, but in their case, it's all about them and their own desires and comfort. RW acted just like Ahab pouting about Naboth's vineyard anytime he didn't get his way. They don't care who they have to steamroll to get what they want; it's not in the calculus. Get away from them before they wreak even more damage. They won't lose one second of sleep over your departure, because they know another sucker is just around the corner. They're sick and dangerous, and the sooner you understand that, the better for you.
ReplyDeleteHow did you leave with you marriage intact.( sorry about so many questions,Vic)
ReplyDeleteVic said,
ReplyDelete"These guys are sociopaths, and they don't have the same emotional constitution as the rest of us." [...] "Get away from them before they wreak even more damage. They won't lose one second of sleep over your departure, because they know another sucker is just around the corner. They're sick and dangerous, and the sooner you understand that, the better for you."
The Word says,
Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. - Eph 4:19 KJV
But ye have not so learned Christ; - Eph 4:20 KJV
If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: - Eph 4:21 KJV
Since you do have feelings and care for others, you would do well to heed Vic's advice and leave this group led by men of corrupt minds; even as it is written:
Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. - 1Ti 6:5 KJV
It's pretty obvious that the organizational leaders are past feeling and that they do suppose that gain is godliness. They don't care whom they hurt. They try to justify their wicked deeds by pointing out how rich they are and claiming that their wealth equals godliness. WRONG. That is the opposite of what God's Word says. They are contradicting / fighting against God. It's all right in front of your face. All you have to do is read the Word and ask God to help you understand it and APPLY it in your life.
2 Thes 3:1
ReplyDelete"Finally, brethren, pray for us, that the word of the Lord may have free course, and be glorified, even as it is with you:"
This is what our prayer should be: "that the word of the Lord may have free course". We aren't trying to get anyone to follow us, neither do we want money from any one. What we want is for you to have freedom. We want God's word to have free course in your life. This can't happen as long as you allow the people you follow to twist the scriptures. Christians are supposed to be free. When God's word is not interfered with it can benefit you in ways that you'll never realize.
2 Thes 3:14-15
"And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed. Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother."
In the ntcc everything is cut and dry. Your either for them or against them. If you choose not to obey them, they will cut you off for ever. When they are done with you they will honor the first part of theis scripture that says, "have no company with him", but they would just as soon forget verse 15 that says "Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother." This often happens towards the end when someone starts figuring out they are part of a big scam and their money is going to HQ in Graham to make a few people rich. The only unforgivable sin in the ntcc is to call them on their lies. If you expose them using the word of God, you are committing a trespass against them that they will never forgive you for. They will aggressively destroy you because they don't want other people to have their eyes opened because of you.
Vic said:
"I was afraid until the moment I left; then a wave of euphoria and joy swept over me and I felt like I was walking three feet off the ground."
This is what the ntcc doesn't want you to experience. If you leave, they want you to leave under a cloud of fear and condemnation. They will use you as a false example to encourage others not to follow after you. Once you leave the ntcc, you will be labelled by them as a God hater and disobedient to God's word and they will even lie about you. More than one person including Vic have mentioned that the ntcc accused them of looking at porn on the internet after they left. The thing is that they don't want you to have the freedom that you can have and you should have in your life. They want you to be financially strapped and pinned down under their doctrine so that you and your finances can be solely manipulated by them. If you leave they are done with you. You don't get to be admonished as a brother but you will be forsaken by them utterly.
We blog against the ntcc because we have been participants in the spreading of ntcc doctrine and we have witnessed the cruelty, abuse and down right hatred. We don't want you to leave just because we left. I know that Kekel will say that we are bitter and that we of the devil and on and on. All we want you to do is to take an honest look at the scripture, (Preferably the New Testament, since you are part of a church that calls itself the New Testament Christian Churches of America), and compare what you read to the doctrine that is taught to you.
ReplyDeleteHeb. 9:16-17 "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth."
Before we go forward do we all agree that we are living under the New Testament? Why is there a New Testament? Why are people trying to live by the laws of the Old Testament? So how about it all you New Testament Christians, are your minds and hearts open to the New Testament? The Old Testament applied to the the Jews mainly who were God's chosen people and was given to Moses. The Old Testament involved many laws and sacraments that involved the shedding of blood of animals, but could never wash away sins. Should we listen to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel? (Heb. 12:24) Should we bind ourselves to those laws and live in fear of judgement, or should we live under the New Testament where Jesus shed his blood once and for all so that our sins could be washed away for ever? The New Testament came into effect when Jesus died on the cross and we need to abide by the scriptures that pertain to the New Testament, not the Old. Jesus is now the mediator of a better covenant with better promises. Jesus died so you wouldn't have to keep the Old Testament laws pertaining to the tabernacle. Jesus died so you wouldn't have to offer blood sacrifices for the rest of your life. The feasts and the holidays and the sacraments have been done away with and this includes tithe. God doesn't want you to be burdened down with financial sacrifices that only benefit rich religious hypocrites like Kekel and Olson. They have brought tithe forward from the Old Testament and made it mandatory contrary to the New Testament. It's tithe or hell for New Testament Christian Church members, but what New Testament Scripture requires tithe with the threat of hell?
Vic, thanks for sharing.
ReplyDeleteHow in the world did Kekel get to date Davis' daughter? What rock did he crawl out from under?
I'm not sure how Davis didn't "interview" any prospects for his future son in law and find one that could actually preach. Not only that but one that would stay in line at least... Surely he could see through the little punk back then.
I think we have been exposing the ntcc and it is effecting their bottom line. After I wrote about Kekel being a 98 pound weakling in comparison to Ashmore, I got a threatening email that suggests that if I keep the pressure up that they are going to tell bigger lies about me. I'm beyond caring what they say about me. I know how this game works. To get people to stop listening to what we say on the blogs, they have to discredit the ones that are telling the truth. The person who wrote this message was probably Kekel or someone in his inner circle. He actually admitted to me that they told lies about me in the last "meeting". Now the lies he told were basically blaming me for the actions of others that were committed by ministers in the ntcc who could not control themselves. He said that I was the cause of them sinning. They had that part of their lives supposedly under control until I came along and caused them to return to their filthy lifestyles. The ntcc in Ft. Bragg under Hummel and Rudy was a spiritually wicked environment in those days and it wasn't because of anyone other than Hummel and Rudy. They were in a position of trust and they never confessed their sins or owned up to what they did. I had to call the organization and share what was going on. If there weren't others involved, I probably would have been run off and accused by Davis, but there were others who were violated. I was 18 and 19 years when all this stuff happened. They have nothing to hold over me. Now, I'm thankful to God that he delivered me from these wicked men and from the ntcc. About four years later while I was still dealing with the aftermath of what I'd been through, another ntcc minister tried to violate me but I refused his advances and turned him in. Now the lies that are being told about me are that I was the cause of these licensed and ordained ntcc ministers returning to their filthy lifestyle which they once had under control. I was not going to say anything about this but sometimes it's good to let people know about the lies they are going to hear before they are spun so there is a record of what actually happened.
ReplyDelete"It is a known fact, after this last meeting who encouraged the fallen ones to fall after the had that filthy life style under control for years and it will come out even more so as you keep your pressure up." Written by someone who calls himself 'Albert'.
Sound like a threat? This was just a small excerpt from the message I got after I said that Kekel couldn't preach his way out of a wet paper bag. We must be getting to them. I've heard that hundreds have left along with Ashmore and there have been some folks who have contacted us who have verified that lots of people they knew were getting out of the ntcc. I'm not taking credit for anyone leaving, I think Ashmore had much more to do with the current exodus and that's cool with me. Ashmore has made a lot of people think about leaving. If he could leave why can't anyone else? There are a lot of people that are sick of what they've been going through in the ntcc. Our goal lately has been to get people to realize that the ntcc is teaching them false doctrine. The bible which they claim to love is being shredded and twisted by false teachers and self appointed apostles. What the ntcc needs to learn is that most of us who have left are no longer subject to their demands and threats. You can threaten us and try to take a deeper look into our lives to see what you can find, it that's what you want.
I was there with the few lackeys who started having church at 2170Forest. This was after the Carondelet debacle. COSensabaugh took over as pastor there. Their Moses was dead, but JHO said ours was still alive. Go figure. He forced each student to acknowlege that the Lord would not send you to the school of an adulterer, would He? Yet within me I kept hearing words like, "That's not the Bible" as RWD preached. Or, "In the future you won't be with this group." I did not fully get it, but I noted In My heart, that something within me was amiss with that group. Where Ken was overt, I was covert In My suspicions. Their loyalty was to a man, mine was to the Word. Once in 1974 I went with pop Gaylord and RW to a Gospel Defenders campmeeting in Merced, Ca. They let RW preach one service, and I recall he made a pitch about bible school in st Louis. Im glad they didn't buy into it. Not one teen there fell for it. But he tried. I noted that he believed there were other churches and preachers saved, but not as smart as him. Yeah right.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said:
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure how Davis didn't "interview" any prospects for his future son in law and find one that could actually preach. Not only that but one that would stay in line at least... Surely he could see through the little punk back then.
DNA said:
Davis didn't care about Kekel's ability to preach. Davis didn't do anything to insure that the ntcc would prosper beyond his life span. Davis was a selfish and evil person who pretended to be an apostle. It was all about living comfortably and having more toys than everyone else. Davis always beat people down when they began to show a high level of success. He didn't want others to have what he had. The Kekel's were special because he wanted the best for his spoiled daughter and husband. The qualities that Davis looked were not for a future leaders of the ntcc but he wanted someone to donate sperm so that his adopted daughter could give him the closest thing he'd ever have to a grandchild. The only qualities that Kekel needed to exhibit were loyalty and submission. Beyond that Davis probably was impressed at Kekels blue grass musical abilities.
Davis surrounded himself with loyal yes man, and they didn't need to be able to preach. They had to be willing to turn a blind eye to his own sin, and deny any allegations of adultery, believe in him in spite of his double standards. Davis was a manipulator and he surrounded himself by people who were willing to follow along with his scam. He created the scam. It was never about being saved or reaching souls or living for God. It was all about $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$!
I'm just thinking out loud but it was pointed out that a new position of power, Executive Chair, came about recently. Along with this new position came the departure of Ashmore and it sounds like others as well.
ReplyDeleteI can't imagine what it's got to be like seeing Pee wee and Marsha Brady run the carnival into the ground while everyone knows who should be in power. Not saying Ashmore is a good guy, just had superstar status as a "Minister".
LOL... I love watching this scam fall on MK/TK's serpentine head! Couldn't happen to a better couple.
There is a notion that is floated around that surely Kekel could not be stupid enough to do this or that or to say this or that. Kekel had to be reigned in by someone because of his ego and because the more he wrote on his blog or on Factnet as the Whirwind, the more damage he did to his own cause. He deleted quite a few of his posts because he got his butt handed to him by the Xer community. Thankfully Greg had the presence of mind to copy and paste all of Kekels writings and organize them in a nice, neat package to be read. Go over to GS and DS blog and see how stupid Kekel was and some of the things he said. He had to delete many of his Anti X-er blog posts because when we responded to them on our own blogs it made him look like the complete and total idiot that he was.
ReplyDeleteOne thing that comes to mind was the Facebook post. He was telling people to not keep company with X-ers on their Facebook pages and he used the analogy that X-ers were hanging in trees by their tails in the Facebook Garden waiting to inject their poisonous venom into them, or something to that effect. Jeff had an awesome post that he put up several times called, "Stupid is as Stupid does" in which he refers to a blog post called Ain't misbehaven where he refers to the fact that he didn't make the rules but was in the unfortunate position of having to enforce them. He talked about policies being mistaken for rules and threw Davis under the Bus over the Kid's in sports rule and lascivious sports apparel rules that everyone had to follow or be blasted by Davis, yet Kekel's own son was allowed to wear whatever he wanted. Now, does this make Kekel an absolute fool and stupid? Not really because he was smart enough to get rich conning people out of their money. He was smart enough to keep a large portion of ntcc members to follow him after they followed Davis which would have been a hard act for anyone to follow. When I say Kekel is stupid it's usually in reference to the way he responds to criticism. His ego is so big that he can't control himself and so often as he tries to respond to the X-er community, he usually ends up looking like the southbound end of a northbound donkey.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI'm just thinking out loud but it was pointed out that a new position of power, Executive Chair, came about recently. Along with this new position came the departure of Ashmore and it sounds like others as well.
DNA said:
I think that's a damage control position. We pointed to the fact that shortly before Davis died the bylaws changed giving Kekel absolute power and the last word on everything that needed approval in the organization. The Position that Kekel held was hard to understand because the position Olson held was not clearly defined. Olson was called the President of the ntcc and also Chairman of the ntcc, While Kekel's title was CEO of the organization. CEO was clearly defined as the highest ranking individual in the borg who everyone reported to and everyone answered to. We have a copy of this posted on our blog.
I think that this started hurting their bottom line because people knew that Kekel was the heir of an empire based on who he married and not on who he was or what he had done. Kekel was never highly respected as others like Ashmore and Olson were. If it is true that they created a position called executive chair then I imagine they had to create it to spread some of that power around to try to reverse the damage Kekel had already done.
Preserving my family was the biggest concern I had when the truth about NTCC started dawning. I'd seen so many families broken up by the departure of one spouse that I had no illusions about what pressure might be brought to bear, so it was delicate. There's no way to know how another person will react in that mind-controlling environment, and I was paranoid about my own wife possibly narking me out after I broached the subject. But often, both spouses are secretly on the same page, with each afraid to tell the other. It's like some twisted O. Henry story. That's how powerful NTCC's grip is; you don't really know the people closest to you. Edna did struggle a bit with the idea at first, but in the end she was persuaded and we took the plunge. And you know what? The water was fine. Once we did leave, the arduous process of recovery had to begin, but that wasn't nearly as difficult as the years of bondage to the NTCC overlords we'd endured. We'll be married 33 years in September.
ReplyDeleteWhen we left, my opinion of the org wasn't nearly as negative as it is now. It was a good brainwashing job and it was quite some time before I came to grips with just how devious and exploitative NTCC really is. I even continued to pay on pledges I had made. It was their own hostility and immature behavior which helped me realize what total jerks and users they are. The final nail in the coffin was when Mike and Phil tried to deny that they had boasted to me about making out with Tanya and Debbie while they were my roommates in the dorm and these girls were 13-14 years old. When they disavowed that, it removed any doubt that they are bald-faced liars. I would have respected them if they'd just have come clean and admitted that they succumbed to temptation, but instead they want to pretend that they're bigshot perfect holiness preachers. I'm calling BS on them; I know they're lying and they know it too. Their own egos prevent them from being real.
Each individual has to make a personal decision, but I believe that it's better to leave NTCC alone and broke than to stick around to preserve some sham status quo. That these "leaders" would even think of encouraging divorce just to hang on to a member is despicable, but it does happen regularly. Frankly, Some of these arranged marriages are probably not worth too much effort. Many split up post-departure anyway because they discover that the only thing they ever had in common was the org. The enormity of chaos that NTCC has introduced into human relationships by hooking people up and splitting them apart is staggering, especially when children are caught in the middle. No legitimate church meddles the way they do.
So who is the executive chair given too?
ReplyDeleteI was aware that the one on charge is Olson because I heard the people calling him "pastor " although when the ntcc started putting the churches on the internet it was stated on the info given, that all the stuff that churches put out has to be reviewed by mk and he will give the okay, so that makes him to have power over the churches.
Everything that the ntcc churches have on their respective websites had to pass the litmus test with mk, if that's not control than I'm a monkey's uncle!
ntcc in a movie
ReplyDeletewatch
the undershepard
on netflix
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeletentcc in a movie
watch
the undershepard
on netflix
DNA said:
We suffered through this movie this afternoon. It makes me think that the majority of the church world is just like the ntcc. They had everything the ntcc has: Adultery, Abortion, Physical abuse, Sexual abuse, Faith healing like Ashmore with the adulterous pastor calling on God as the Woman stood up out of her wheel chair, Public humiliation towards the church members, BMW's, Cadillacs, Vacation homes in the Bahamas, Stacks of tithe money being collected by the rich pastor from single mothers with 5 children living in a one bedroom apartment, a ministers wife who hated herself so much because of the abuse she took from her husband that she would make herself throw up in ziplock bags which she saved in a locker all with the backdrop of a preacher screaming into a microphone and calling out other peoples sins while the congregation shouted and danced. I forgot how sick the religious world is. The only thing they did right was the church had a board that could actually remove the Pastor and vote him out. I'm not sure if the ntcc is still incorporated in Missouri, but if it is, has Kekel or anyone been voted in to replace Davis? According to the bylaws of the ntcc the CEO is to be voted in by the church members. You ntcc church members ought to take serious consideration as to which ntcc nut you want running the farm.
it had alot of big name actors i like. too bad i had to watch them feature ntcc.
DeleteFor such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
ReplyDelete2 Corinthians 11:13-15
Exec Chair is currently given to Kekel, then Grant then on and on. Let's end it though.
ReplyDeleteMike
Good Morning! Hope everyone is enjoying their weekend. I was reading in the book of 1 Timothy this morning and did a little research on the structure of the church. Particularly the office of a Bishop and the office of a deacon. I don't know what they teach in the ntcc bible school but it's not coming out of 1 Timothy. I often wondered why the words bishop and deacon were used in the New Testament but not used in the ntcc. I found out during my studies that the ntcc does not believe in those positions because they don't have anyone qualified to fill those positions or offices. I know that Davis had his own structure that consisted of Overseers, (Apostles), Pastors and helpers, (elves perhaps?), and church members, (brain washed suckers). But as with everything I learned in the ntcc, it is necessary to unlearn and study for it out for yourself. Did you know that God gave us a brain so that we could read His word for ourselves and figure out if we were being lied to? I didn't know that for 13 years. Now I do.
ReplyDeleteBishop translated by Strong's from original Greek - an overseer
A. a man charged with the duty of seeing that things to be done by others are
done rightly, any curator, guardian or
B. superintendent
C. the superintendent, elder, or overseer of a Christian church
1 Tim 3:2-7
"A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."
This biblical definition eliminates Davis, Kekel and Ashmore at the very least from being bishops, which is a lower office in the church than an Apostle or Super Apostle which they claim to be. I would say just about everyone of the board members would be eliminated because they are all greedy of filthy lucre. But Davis, Kekel and Ashmore would all be eliminated from being a Bishop because they had no control over their own household.
Davis the husband of a second wife was greedy of filthy lucre, covetous, did not rule his own house well or have his children, (Tanya, who broke the rules everyone else was expected to keep all the time), in subjection with all gravity and was not of good report of them which were with out. One former member spoke with three different members of RW's former church and was told that RW had committed adultery.
As for the office of a deacon, it does not exist in the ntcc. The ntcc has never had any deacons and never will because they don't believe in the bible.
ReplyDeleteThe definition of Deacon according to Strong's from it's original translation is:
Deacon - one who executes the commands of another, esp. of a master, a servant,
attendant, minister
A. the servant of a king
B. a deacon, one who, by virtue of the office assigned to him by the church,
cares for the poor and has charge of and distributes the money collected for
their use
C. a waiter, one who serves food and drink
The ntcc doesn't have any kind of ministry to the poor, therefore they don't have deacons. Why is it that the ntcc never taught this part of the bible to their students in BS? Could you imagine Davis ever taking up a collection for the poor and designating people to oversee that money and distribute it to the poor? How in the name of plain common sense would he ever be able to accumulate enough wealth to go on all expense paid vacations in his Recreational Vehicle which cost one million dollars if he distributed his money to the poor? How would Kekel ever be able to afford to go to all the different churches and preach, (if you can call it that), to the churches across the world, with a few recreational vacation stops to who knows where?
The ntcc never taught that a church should have a deacon because they didn't want their trained, licensed ministers being involved in such menial tasks as taking care of the poor or waiting tables. The ntcc has never taught the scriptures about being a servant of all or caring about the poor or reaching out to those who could do nothing for them in return. Davis was cheap when it came to everyone else. You can't use too much toilet paper. Paper towels are a waste of money in the Servicemen's homes. Lets save every dime we can so Davis can have a little more here and there.
One of the requirements for being a deacon was that a man could not be doubletongued.
Doubletongued - double tongued, double in speech, saying one thing with one person another with another (with the intent to deceive)
Well this disqualifies just about everyone on the General Board from being a deacon which is the lowest office or position you can hold in the ministry. Davis and Olson certainly don't qualify for this position based on this one qualification alone. Kekel and Ashmore are totally eliminated from being deacons. Both of them had Kids that were not in subjection under all gravity and this kept them from ruling their own houses well. Johnson didn't have his daughter under control as Paul stated in 1 tim 3:12: "Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well." She was being felt up by Kinson at a very young and tender age of 13-14 as Vic has recently shared.
If you don't even qualify to be a deacon, than you have any business running a bible school and calling yourself an apostle. There is only one explanation for what is going on in the ntcc. They are not a bible believing organization. The leadership has failed miserably and does not admit their failure because they don't really care about their own standing with God or keeping their lives and families in order according to the bible. They just care about the money that you give them and the things that your money buys for them to enjoy. That's it. That's what it's all about in the ntcc.
Mike said:
ReplyDelete"Exec Chair is currently given to Kekel, then Grant then on and on. Let's end it though."
DNA said:
Not sure if there is an exec chair. Someone eluded to that in a previous comment, but the bylaws have never changed, and if you go by that document, Kekel is still in charge and has the final say on everything. The ntcc spins a bunch of lies to their congregation, the IRS and in their bylaws. They can't just come out and give an honest answer for everything. The IRS public documentation that they file every year has Kekel as the Treasurer and Olson as the executive chair or president and Johnson as "other". Kekel is the treasurer alright, because he's in charge of the ntcc treasures. He takes what he wants, when he wants and none of the members have any clue where their money is going, nor do they have any say. If the ntcc was honest they would show you a breakdown of where all your money was going before you gave so you could make an educated decision if it's even right to give to them. They would have to tell you that 70% of the money you give is going to go to the rich leaders of the organization. You don't believe that? Look at where all the money goes in the organization. It's not being sent over to the Philippines or going towards the poor. You can tell who is in charge by where all the money goes. You don't have to look at the bylaws or the IRS statements or listen to their weasel words. Just look at who lives in the biggest mansion and who drives the most expensive cars.
You bible school students are easy targeted suckers. If you can live on the same cult compound as Kekel and see the house he lives in and the cars that he and Tanya drive while you bunk up with several roomates and eat Ramen dinners to survive while you fork over large chunks of your small paycheck to Kekel. You are just the kind of flunkie that they are looking for. They will use you up like a dirty rag until you can not soak up any more dirt and then they will throw you away. Look around you. How long does your average bible school student last. Most of you won't make it through bible school and if you don't, you will be doing yourself a huge favor and saving yourself a whole lot of grief by getting out of the ntcc before the deeply seeded permanent damage can be done to you. Happy is the man that just leaves on his own accord. You are not called to be in that so called bible school. God doesn't call people to slave while others get rich off of your labor and hardly anyone is getting saved. And what happens to those who do get saved in the Organization? Do they really serve God? They might get a few saved but those few souls will be used for their money and their ability to reach more blind people. I wish there were some way to get through to you ntcc loyalists. Unfortunately a lot of you will have to wait until you are humiliated publicly and you will finally realize that what is happening to you has nothing to do with Christ or the work of God. Hopefully that will happen before you get out into the ministry and have to leave a congregation to another struggling minister. The longer you stay in the more they will heap condemnation and judgment upon you when you leave. They will tell you that you will always be called by God to be a minister, and maybe some of you are, but you are definitely not called to be an enabler of people like Kekel and Olson who are not Christlike and do not live according to the same bible they preach or require you to live by. We are not asking you to leave, just to read the bible for yourselves and compare Kekel to Christ and see how huge the difference is. Jesus never got rich. Jesus never collected tons of money from people so he could build a huge mansion. Paul always worked with his hands and encouraged others to do the same so as not to be a burden to the church. Jesus and Paul cared about the poor and Jesus always could be found healing the sick and saving the poor who had nothing to give Him, neither did He ask anything of them. These people that you are following are so far away from God's will that they wouldn't have a clue who Jesus was if He sat down right next to them. But what do we know? According to Kekel we are the ones who are of the devil. Even though we do not seek a dime from you our only purpose is evil according to the ntcc, while they get stinking rich off of you. That's not Christianity and it's not God's calling for you and your future congregations to make a few rich narcissist richer.
ReplyDeleteIs paying "back tithe" taught in Bible School? Crain (former pastor of the New Orleans church) would teach that if a person "left God" and decided to come back to the church, he or she owed back tithe on the money they earned after leaving the church in order to be right with God again.
ReplyDeleteExec Chair is new. Only can be seen in their by laws. Consolidates power for Kekel and marginalizes Olson or any other challenger
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteIs paying "back tithe" taught in Bible School? Crain (former pastor of the New Orleans church) would teach that if a person "left God" and decided to come back to the church, he or she owed back tithe on the money they earned after leaving the church in order to be right with God again.
DNA said:
Last I heard, Crain was standing out on a corner waving puppets in Memphis Tennessee. He would stand out in front of his church with a puppet and wave at traffic as it went by. Somehow how he ended up with a 1/2 million dollar church after being relocated from New Orleans, LA after Hurricane Katrina swept through. Maybe a fat insurance check allowed him to upgrade to a George Jefferson type situation. Usually it takes an act of God or a natural catastrophe for someone in the ntcc to get a bigger piece of the pie or a de-lux apartment in the sky. So now Crain goes out on a street corner with a puppet or some funny looking glasses and waves to people for an hour or so every morning.
I don't personally think he is a nutcase for doing that, but I know that Davis would have never approved of it back in the day. He probably knew about it after his so called retirement, but didn't care and never seemed to get involved too much, unless he had it in for someone like MDR and wanted to jack them up. Funny, Pop Gaylord never retired, he always talked about refiring instead of retiring. But the whole puppet thing is definitely not in accordance with the ntcc's soul winning program. It seems a little bit like a huge grab for attention, or some kind of recognition that he never got from the ntcc. They are all messed up no matter how you look at it. Crain still runs a money making church and I'm sure the majority of his members are financially imprisoned by the monetary demands of attending an ntcc church. Standing on a corner waving a puppet at people doesn't atone for all of the people that are being abused.
"How long does the average BS student last"? That's a good question. I wonder how long the average person attends the church before leaving. If they attend BS I wonder how long that lasts. I simply do not recognize anyone from my day that's still there.
ReplyDeleteNot sure how many if any church members relocated to Memphis along with Crain. It seems a little odd for an entire church to leave an area and migrate that far. Maybe it was just Crain and his new building that were part of this relocation. Memphis is a ways away from the flood plain. He must have really not had a great burden for the souls of New Orleans, or his call to New Orleans must not have been of God. Most of the Churches in New Orleans probably stuck around to help their communities rebuild but it seems like Jonah I mean Crain bailed. I mean why would you leave a city that God called you to just because of a Category 5 hurricane? When that city needed him the most he found away to upgrade into some nice digs in Memphis. Did God change his mind about where Crain was called to preach because of a little bad weather? Don't fool yourself, it's all about money in the ntcc.
ReplyDeleteKind of getting back to the subject of the women's role at the ntcc, I recall sis Davis talking about how back in the early days of her marriage, she was working on a job and rw was in the beginning of building a church and she helped him by working. She said that things were different then.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteKind of getting back to the subject of the women's role at the ntcc, I recall sis Davis talking about how back in the early days of her marriage, she was working on a job and rw was in the beginning of building a church and she helped him by working. She said that things were different then.
DNA said:
VD had grown accustomed to a lavish lifestyle in the ntcc and quietly in the shadows of RW she destroyed a lot of marriages. Whenever a couple started to talk about leaving or show signs of what the leadership considered to be rebellion, Verna and Tanya would go to the woman and try to get her to leave her husband that she vowed to love, honor and cherish for the rest of her life. While that was happening, Davis or one of his appointed cronies would seek out the man and try to get him to depart from the woman that he vowed to love, honor and cherish for the rest of his life. If neither could be persuaded to leave their spouse, they would both be kicked to the curb and often lied about. We are not making this up. This happened to Ted and Jean Keys and several others. Ted Keys was accused of watching porn on the internet at a time when he didn't know what the internet was really all about, because he bought into the whole 'sinner net' label that Davis placed on it. As a matter of fact Ted didn't even know what porn was. Those two left the organization loving each other and loving God. Verna and Tanya are wicked women who have been the cause of splitting up marriages and families. Why does this happen in a church that is considered to be the last move of God among it's members?
As far as Verna having a job way back when, it's possible that before she was a part of the ntcc, she might have had a job to support R-dubs endeavor to "build a church". Building a church meant nothing more than extracting money out of church members and manipulating people under his control while he was running around with the sisters in the PCOG church. Beyond that nobody knows. If she did work than Davis was a big time hypocrite for condemning women who worked in the ntcc. If she said that she worked she might have. Davis made exceptions to that rule when people like Greg and Deb were overseas. The overseas works often were expensive to run and people were not as rich as in the U.S. They gave Greg and Deb a letter that was required by the Government of Korea, (I believe), before they were allowed in the country, stating that they were missionaries from the U.S. and that the ntcc would give them what ever financial support they needed, (a big lie). Because there were so many expenses overseas and the ntcc didn't want to help out a little, God changed His mind on the ntcc women working policy, (rule), and the ntcc told the men overseas to put those women to work.
More scriptures today for all of you bible believing Christians. I've made it a point to share some of the scriptures that I come across during my daily bible reading that contradict the daily teachings of the ntcc. There have been quite a few. 1 Timothy is loaded with scriptures that define the ntcc and the majority of it's ministers. I know that most of you ntcc'rs don't want to hear what I have to say, but surely you wouldn't close your ears to what the bible says, would you? I remember how we used to define the ntcc when we invited people to church. We would tell them that we were a non denominational, bible believing church, where everyone was welcome. We always left out that we were a tithe or hell preaching church that was not supported by the bible. So are we ready to hear what Paul has to say in the book of 1 Timothy?
ReplyDelete1 Tim 6:5-10
"Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself. But godliness with contentment is great gain. For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. And having food and raiment let us be therewith content. But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition. For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."
If the ntcc leadership is Godly and they believe the bible which they say they preach, why is it that this passage of scripture is ripped out of the bible and not applied to them? Oh, sure, they will teach it to you, as if they already learned this lesson, but they will not live by it. "And having food and raiment let us be therewith content". This is Paul speaking. He's the apostle that worked a job so that he wouldn't be a burden to the church. These 6 verses are loaded with wisdom that the ntcc leadership does not possess. How can you buy a One Million Dollar Recreational Vehicle that would cost 400 of your followers a whole years worth of tithe and say you are content? And that is just a fraction of the big ticket items that the ntcc leadership spends on a regular basis. So, you thought your money was going to help lost souls? You thought it was going towards the work of God? Sorry, you have been deceived by your ntcc hirelings, and they will continue to deceive you until you read the bible for yourself and realize that what they are doing is far from biblical.
When I was trapped in NTCC, RW was the only one billed as an apostle, and even that assertion kind of evaporated in later years. He used to talk about it, though, and personally claim to be one. He nullified deacons with math--since there were only six appointed for at least several thousand believers, RW maintained that no church in the org was even close size-wise to needing one. Maybe he didn't catch the fact that deacons were appointed at the "organizational" level in the bible so at some point NTCC became delinquent by not having even one. But we know that adhering to what the bible actually does say isn't high on the priority list.
ReplyDeleteRW never hid the fact that Verna worked, because it played into his demonization of other churches--he was just a dumb Baptist then; had his wife out on the job. He even copped to smoking cigarettes while he was a Baptist preacher. It represented his ignorant beginnings. But I always wondered how come he never gave anyone else the benefit of the doubt. No way would RW cut any other preacher slack if he found out he smoked cigarettes. He'd be on his way to hell--do not pass go, do not collect $200. He'd spin tales of his own defects early in his Christian life, fondly recalling his innocence and naivete, while simultaneously expecting near-instant perfection from all new converts. How narcissistic is that?
ReplyDeleteBrother Ken I do recall Davis talking about Verna working, back when he was a Boilermaker, and after he started out as a minister. he even said she had to turn her check over to him no questions asked, but he also said that if she asked for any thing he would get It for her, because in the end he made out with the money he deposited into there account from her, example he used was so she would ask for a new clock so he got it for her, but look at all the money he had from her pay check. he gave back to her in the little things she asked for, and made out big from the money she gave him.
ReplyDeleteI remembr that at one conf., kekl talked about how that exers talked about ntcc being all about money and he said if that would be true they would change the policy about women not working and send them to work so they could have more money but no, they wanted the women to be keepers at the home.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteI remembr that at one conf., kekl talked about how that exers talked about ntcc being all about money and he said if that would be true they would change the policy about women not working and send them to work so they could have more money but no, they wanted the women to be keepers at the home.
DNA said:
It seems as Kekel has misrepresented what the X-ers have said if he is implying that we said the ntcc is all about money. Very few people in the ntcc have money. The ntcc leadership is all about money, and because of that the entire ministry is about money and numbers. Having the wives work would just enable them to leave of their own accord and that is why the ntcc chooses to leave the women powerless. You take away their right to work and allow that ntcc husband to abuse her and she doesn't have very many options, does she? The ntcc is pointing attention to one of their policies or rules that has no biblical reasoning. There is no place in the bible where it says that a woman can't work. Any man that has a spine will admit that he is a keeper at home also. He keeps the Lawn Mower running. He keeps his eye on the trash so he can take it out to the garbage can and to the curb on trash day. It doesn't say that the woman's sole responsibility is to wait on the man hand and foot while he does nothing to help out, nor does it say that the women in the church can not have a job. That is ntcc doctrine and by Kekel saying what he did in conference just draws attention to the fact that there are other reasons they don't want women working. If you think the divorce rate is high in the ntcc now, just wait until you give women options and allow them to work. A woman doesn't have to take any type of abuse for her entire life. Neither should the children. This is just another case of the ntcc taking one scripture and twisting it so that they can control women.
Bro. Ken said:
ReplyDelete"Brother Ken I do recall Davis talking about Verna working"
DNA said:
If Verna worked it was to benefit R-dub. He got the check and she got a few gifts. At some point R-dub decided that he wanted more control and all of the sudden God must have changed His mind about Verna working and made a new rule that applies to women under R-dub's ministry that they can't work. Unless of course they are overseas and the ntcc doesn't want to honor their agreements with the Governments of those countries and give financial support to the churches over there. Why would they want to spend your World Missions dollars on World Missions when they can put the women to work over there. No body would see them working overseas and surely they would never say much about it, because Gawd made an exception for them, but you country redneck bumpkins that are struggling stateside, better not let your wives go outside the traditional boundaries or they will die and go to hell for getting a job. Can you see the hypocrisy dripping from Kekel and the ntcc leadership? Davis might have bought a clock for Verna to get her to shut up, but he took her money and used it however he pleased.
Vic said:
ReplyDelete"He nullified deacons with math--since there were only six appointed for at least several thousand believers, RW maintained that no church in the org was even close size-wise to needing one."
DNA said:
R-dub always tried to downplay any biblical doctrine that interfered with him getting rich. He deliberately steered away from the many scriptures that Paul shared about giving. Paul taught everything there is to know about giving in the New Testament and tithe never came up except in the book of Hebrews chapter 7 if you attribute that book to Paul. Hebrews talked about Abraham freely giving 1 10th of the spoils of the war one time in his life not as a requirement but as a gift. And then it goes on to say how tithe worked under the law, and then goes on to explain what the Law couldn't do Jesus did. No where does it say that tithe should be changed to adapt to New Testament ministry. They would first have to change tithe from agricultural gifts being paid only by those who had land to monetary gifts due every payday. You can not find these changes anywhere in the bible, only in money grubbing churches. The ntcc uses the argument that Abraham paid tithes before the law, but there were also animal sacrifices before the law and you don't see people offering up rams in their churches today. If we were to take Malachi's warning about robbing God and apply it to the New Testament, we would have to pay our tithe to the Jews and to the Levites. People in the ntcc need to wake up and read for yourselves so you can rightly divide the Word of truth. Davis also didn't believe that the Acts 4 distribution to the poor that was practiced in the early church before deacons were even appointed. People during that time freely gave so that the poor Christians were taken care of. Davis wanted nothing to do with that. But distributing to the poor was a huge part of the ministry back then, and if God is the same yesterday, today and forever, maybe churches like the ntcc should get rid of their money grubbing rich pastors and self appointed apostles and stop paying them huge salaries so they can live in the lap of luxury and try giving to the poor and less fortunate in their communities.
I understand that Money may be the driving factor in what motivates the higher ups but I'm thinking they love the total control, the celebrity of it all.
ReplyDeletePower over others must be highly intoxicating. People hanging on your every word, doing your bidding. I can't and don't want to imagine what I'd be like if I'd moved up the org. It seems like it corrupts everything about a person.
Mike
"I remembr that at one conf., kekl talked about how that exers talked about ntcc being all about money and he said if that would be true they would change the policy about women not working and send them to work so they could have more money but no, they wanted the women to be keepers at the home."
ReplyDeletethere is tons of evidence where ntcc IS about the money! that is like saying Hitler was a misunderstood nice guy, because he would buy flowers for his girlfriend.
Power and money are mutual to some degree. I believe their unquenchable desire for money stems from their need for power over others.
ReplyDeleteThey have all the money so they have all the power and they flaunt it as if they're the hottest stripper in the club (as my squad leader used to say).
I'm just glad RWD got to see his org begin a steady decent into irrelevance. I'm sure he's cursing in hell right now at himself for picking such a dimwit to run things.
I doubt anybody could become anything in the ntcc. Maybe they may put you in a big church like Devonshire or another fairly big church but you won't become somebody that will have any say so in the org.
ReplyDeleteThe buck stops with kekel.
That's why ashmore left.
He thought that he had the gravitas to change the org or at least to bring new ideas but he found out that rw wouldn't want to share his kingdom with outsiders.
I recall back in a conference he saying this.
Back when he had gotten the campground. He arranged everything to be in the hands of the org so that when he died his "sinner" family wouldn't come out and try to get a piece of the pie.
I don't know why he shared this at this particular conference but he did and all his houses and lands and luxuries he had it under the ntcc name.
We all heard Olson say that ntcc was rw and he was right.
This org belongs to the kekels now and nobody can do anything about it.
I feel sorry for the ntcc pastors because they think they are working for the kingdom of God when in reality is the kingdom of kekel.
Kingdom of Kekel... I like that.
ReplyDeleteMike
Mike said:
ReplyDelete"I understand that Money may be the driving factor in what motivates the higher ups but I'm thinking they love the total control, the celebrity of it all."
DNA said:
I agree with you Mike. Money allows them to have that power over people. The fact that they manipulated ntcc members into giving their money to them, makes them power hungry. The ntcc leadership is not a Christ centered organization. Jesus, Paul or any of the other apostles would never seek to be popular or feel the need to have that kind of power over a group of people. When you con people out of their money and you watch them become poor while you become rich, and you get off on that kind of power where everyone says yes sir and no sir, what can I do for you today; you might as well stop pretending to be an Apostle, a teacher, a shepherd, a pastor or a worker for God, because you are only fooling a few people. You are definitely not fooling God and most of the people you think you are fooling know what you are all about. As people start leaving and the organization clearly is in a downward slide you'll have to hope that there are enough crooked people that are unwilling to acknowledge what is happening around them to keep the level of support necessary to maintain an operation of this magnitude. An Exodus has begun and Davis's prophesy of a holiness organization not lasting beyond 4 decades seems to be coming to pass, although many of his other prophesies were false. I often thought that when Davis made that statement it was because he built it so that only he could sustain it for that long. I think he knew after his death that Kekel did not have any of the right qualities to sustain such a cult. In fact, if you look at the history of cults, usually the second guy that takes it over, runs it into the ground. In a few cases the second guy might keep the organization barely running above it's means but usually it sinks by the time that second cult leader dies. The second cult leader usually tries to live a lifestyle even more luxurious and commits the same level of sexual, physical and mental abuse as the first guy did but people are more aware and know what to look for because of their mistakes with the first guy. Very few cults out of hundreds go on to make it to the century mark.
The Mormons and a few others have made it, but they had to adapt to the changing of times and their members had to adapt along with them. The ntcc has been exposed for some pretty sick things and I don't think they have the momentum to continue to operate the way they have been operating for the past 4 1/2 decades. I'm not an expert and I could be wrong, but the ntcc is not a huge organization although it does have a very large amount of real estate and money. It would take someone with a lot of wisdom to make it through the downsizing phase without spending too much money on themselves, or making public mistakes that draw unwanted publicity to their members and outsiders. Usually the second guy in charge of a cult, spends as much money as the first guy or even more and the organization can not sustain that kind of spending as people leave and money stops flowing. The Jehovah's witness cult provides a unique example of how a cult can succeed over a long period of time. The JW's have close to 100 times more assets than the ntcc. They have huge cult compounds that run legitimate businesses but what is missing from this cult is the rich leaders. Usually when you follow the money trail from a cult you will find it's leaders living like Kekel or even better than Kekel. In the JW organization they brainwashed not only the members but the leaders also to the point where all of the board members have taken a vow of poverty and even though they have a little bit more than your averaged brain washed JW sucker, there is no money trail that leads to any of the board members or anyone in charge having huge amounts of money. If there is anyone that has gotten rich they have managed to keep it private. Where does all the money go? Huge amounts of it goes back into advertising and into the making of Watch Tower Literature. When the leaders of a cult have been trained to live like the members you end up with a cult organization that thrives financially.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said:
ReplyDelete"They have all the money so they have all the power and they flaunt it as if they're the hottest stripper in the club (as my squad leader used to say)."
DNA said:
Funny and sad at the same time, but also very true. They get what they want usually. Now it seems like the blogs have made people aware of what they are all about. Perhaps they have done more damage to themselves than we could ever do, but we are here to document their failures and educate people to what is going on in their own church that has been hid from them for so long. Because we see it differently than they do, it is a shock to their senses. We are not afraid of the ntcc and don't recognize it's leadership as being of God or even being inspired in anyway by God, while the average ntcc'r has been programmed for so long to place their leaders on a pedestal and they actually revere them as they would God. These members have a difficult time believing anything we say, because we have been discredited over and over by Kekel in conferences and other preachers who say the blogs are full of ungodly filth. Why do we do this? We believe that as good people leave the ntcc others will follow and realize what they are all about. For us it has never been about trying to get people to stop serving God, but on the contrary, we hope that people will free themselves from the bondage of the ntcc's legalism and Old Testament Law of tithe and learn to enjoy their lives for God without having to become poor, broken and in debt to the rich ntcc leadership.
D/A,
ReplyDeleteIt's actually an important part of recovering. I had no idea that these people were neck deep in scandals (what happened to avoiding the appearance of evil) until I just started doing research. Are some NTCC haters? Maybe, but people like me could never have started the "moving on" process without reading what truly was going on at the heart of this org. I had no idea these holy men were predatory con men. In the end I'm angry with myself for following them for 5 years like a moron.
Mike
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"The buck stops with kekel.
That's why ashmore left."
DNA said:
Very good insight. Ashmore at least felt like he played a role in the ntcc's success. When he seen it all begin to crumble he bailed. He'll probably build his own little megachurch down in San Diego, because he knows how to stick with the successful program that Davis ran. If Davis could manipulate thousands of mindless Christians with all of his allegations of adultery and child Molestation, surely Ashmore could do a better job than Kekel. In fact if Ashmore hadn't wasted 40 years of his life in the ntcc he'd probably have a much bigger cult than Davis ever imagined. It's all about timing and not getting caught by your congregation. Davis surrounded himself with a bunch of loyal board members that were willing to hide his sin and to help him cover up the abuse. Kekel is surrounded by some of the same people but are they going to be willing to fall on their swords to protect Kekel? He doesn't command the same amount of respect as Davis did so I doubt it.
Rw made a remark at a conference and he was throwing this to a minister:
ReplyDelete" you are not indispensable, when you leave somebody is ready to take your place."
He said it in a mocking manner.
It's sad but true. Men and women at the ready to become their court jesters.
D/A said
ReplyDeleteKekel is surrounded by some of the same people but are they going to be willing to fall on their swords to protect Kekel? He doesn't command the same amount of respect as Davis did so I doubt it.
He doesn't command any respect. No one believes lightning will strike them down when he talks. He's laughable as a leader, a little brat that got the keys to the kingdom.
I personally am very grateful to God for everything that he has done for us and all that we have. I have a beautiful wife that loves me we live in a nice house and have a few nice things. I feel much more secure financially than I did in the ntcc and right now we are enjoying life. Did you know that you could enjoy life and be a Christian at the same time? I'm condemning anyone that does these things but we are not hitting the bars every night and we aren't having drunken parties at our house every night and yet we genuinely enjoy what we have been given. Someone recently suggested that I was sick and unable to work and almost broke. God has been very good to us, and we have enjoyed being able to spend a lot of time together. Along with a good job, comes financial security. We have that because we worked for it, but we also feel that God has given us this gift and the ability to work and He cares about us enough and loves us enough to provide all we have need for, and it is wonderful to have that assurance. I've often heard ntcc pastors say they don't need insurance because they have assurance and then they get sick and can no longer function or in the worst case they die and leave nothing for their families. We have assurance and insurance, now that's a good feeling. We are in good hands and we don't have Allstate, but because God has given us a good job with benefits we are able to prosper through the hard times. This wisdom was absent in the ntcc. Your money is their money and they don't care if you provide for your family. If you have money they will try to find a way to get it. Our God doesn't do that to us. Our God is better to us than the ntcc's god ever was and we don't have to send our pregnant wives out soul winning in 100 degree weather causing them to have miscarriages. Our God is much better. He takes care of us and provides for us and we don't have to attend 5 church services per week so an ntcc licensed minister can belittle us and humiliate us for not giving enough or doing enough to make their church grow so they can be recognized and honored at conference for meeting the money and numbers requirements that earns them praise. Thank you, God for not treating us like the ntcc leadership treats it's loyal church members.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said:
ReplyDelete"He doesn't command any respect. No one believes lightning will strike them down when he talks. He's laughable as a leader, a little brat that got the keys to the kingdom."
DNA said:
I agree with you. If he gets any respect it's only because of who he married and that will only take him so far. If you look at his social network pages there are a few people out there that are always saying God Bless you sir but the numbers are waning. What little respect people have for him was probably not earned and he definitely is lacking in people skills.
I don't think people should be called Xers. I think a person's ntcc status ("in" or "out") should be described like bellybuttons - He's an "Innie"; she's an "Outie"!
ReplyDeleteHere we go again. Hebrews is a very good book to read if you are a bible believing New Testament Christian. Why is Hebrews such a good book? The book of Hebrews really breaks things down for those that were still wanting to live by the law of Moses and continue in the traditions of the Laws of the Old Testament. Did you know that Jesus is now our High Priest? It's no longer the tribe of Levites that are required to perform the Old Testament sacraments. In fact, it's called the Old Testament because it was replaced by the New Testament. You might say, "I know where you are going with this. Why do you always have to speak about tithe"? Tithe is an important topic because money means more than people do in the ntcc. Tithe was never required of anyone until the law of Moses was given to the children of Israel. Abraham gave tithes of 10% of the spoils of war freely, not of commandment, and tithe wasn't given by commandment until it was written in the Law of Moses. So tithe was brought to the Levites in the form of Agricultural goods, every three years and paid only by land owners and used to support those in the Priesthood who had no possession of Land.
ReplyDeleteThe book of Hebrews tells us that Christ is our new High priest and that he sprung up out of the tribe of Judah, which gave no attendance at the altar. In other words only the tribe of Judah had nothing to do with the temple or any of the Old Testament sacraments. In other words, out with the old and in with the new. In case the ntcc has not taught you this, we are not living by the Old Testament Law any more. Everything that God requires of us is written in the New Testament. There is not one thing that we are required to do that God forgot to put in the New Testament. You know why? It's simple but people make it so hard. Everything has been done. Jesus took away the handwriting of ordinances that was against us and nailed it to the cross. If you are still trying to please God by paying your tithe as if you owed it to God because some religious huckster wants to control your finances, you are missing the whole concept of what Jesus did for us on the cross. Jesus don't want your money, and He never asked for it. Hebrews is the only book in the New Testament after the death of Christ and the Law was replaced by the atonement of the Lamb of God, where we find tithe mentioned, and it was mentioned in a book written to the Hebrews whose author was uncertain but many attribute to Paul. The Jews were the only ones that were still hung up on the law and the Author of Hebrews was telling these people that they had a new High Priest and that what the law could not do, Jesus had done for them. I hate to break it to you ntcc'rs but tithe was never carried forward into the New Testament. If you are paying it, you are not doing so because the bible requires it of you and the ones that are collecting it are not doing so because the bible commands them to. You have been had.
Mike said:
ReplyDelete"I had no idea that these people were neck deep in scandals (what happened to avoiding the appearance of evil) until I just started doing research."
DNA said:
Neither did I. I think most people in the ntcc do what they are programmed to do. Even in this modern day of internet, if you believe that Kekel is a man of God and you want to go to heaven, many will obey him and stay off the blogs. But there are a lot of people visiting the blogs these days and I also believe that the more Kekel tells people to stay away, the more people get curious and want to know more about the crooks that are running it. When I was in, the internet was just beginning to become popular, but I would never think of trying to find groups online that were against the ntcc, because I thought they were the last hope of God on earth. I was totally brainwashed. Thank God they wore me down and I got tired of going through the same worthless routines over and over again. I had seen corruption with my own eyes through 3 pastors and 2 pastor's wives, but still refused to believe that corruption was something that was common place in all levels of the ntcc. They do a good job of stealing your mind from you. I mean, you are trying to do the right thing and you have made the assumption that you are in with the right people. There is only one God and Davis always taught that you had to dance with the one what brought you. We always thought that the ntcc brought us, but if we were saved, and I believe that many are and were, it wasn't because the ntcc invited us to cult meetings, but it was in spite of the fact that the ntcc invited us to their cult meetings.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteRw made a remark at a conference and he was throwing this to a minister:
" you are not indispensable, when you leave somebody is ready to take your place."
He said it in a mocking manner.
It's sad but true. Men and women at the ready to become their court jesters.
DNA said:
This is very true. Davis could say that he could here the footsteps of your replacement. He always sneered at people when he made such statements as if he were above them or incapable of doing any wrong. I remember one time when I was sitting at a table with Davis and Tieman in a restaurant Davis reached down under the table and pretended to pull out a vaginal hair from his private region and waved it in front of my nose and warned me to watch out for women because they were the cause of many people getting crossed up with God. Later on in my life I was visiting Infausto's church and he regurgitated the same Vaginal Hair story that Davis told him. Infausto also stated that Davis was at a building site one time and asked for a one inch nail, and added, "the size of my penis on a cold day". Infausto laughed and you could tell he told these stories a lot. Could you imagine anyone saying something like that in front of him? I think Tom Wright told me one time that he or someone got Jacked up by Davis for saying it was so hot in Arizona that the devil didn't even hang around that place. What a hypocrite. Glad I'm no longer part of that garbage.
Our teachers are trained and highly experienced in diverse fields of ministry from pioneering and missionary work to executive level church administration and education. Their commonality is a love of teaching and a desire that their students become all that they can be, for the glory of God.
ReplyDeleteBecause of our low student/teacher ratio, students have almost unlimited access to their teachers.
You can find this statement on the faculty page of the ntcc website along with their mugshots. They aren't kidding about their low student/teacher ratio, because there were only about 5 or 6 dudes that graduated from bible school in the class of 2014. Since women don't really count for anything in the ntcc and they are not allowed to pastor churches or have any say in anything important, it doesn't really matter that there were twice as many women than there were men in the graduation picture. What is sad is that there were more people on the Faculty teaching these guys than there were graduating. It's funny, Tanya Kekel's picture kind of stuck out like a cabbage patch doll in the Faculty picture. Mike Kekel is pictured as the President of the BS college right next to the Flounder Davis, I mean Founder. Kekel's description of the staff being trained and highly experienced in diverse fields of ministry from pioneering and missionary work to executive level church administration and education, was able to accommodate his calling to be a church administrator and educator. Kekel was "called" to be a church administrator, as he once shared on his blog because people were calling him out for not having any experience in the field. He even had to reach back to his child hood upbringing and point out how hard things were on him when he was growing up in the 60's. He became qualified to run the organization when Davis died and by virtue of the fact that Davis wanted his business to stay in is unsaved family and have the daily affairs overseen by his unsaved son in law. One day, if Kekel doesn't manage to run the ntcc into the ground or if he is not hauled off to the Federal Penitentiary for tax evasion, he will probably hand the ntcc off to his unsaved son, because it's a business, not a church. Incorporated businesses that call themselves non profit organizations fall under the unwatchful eyes of the IRS, may someday have to answer for their gross profits and any other illicit scandals they might be involved in.
In or Out said...
ReplyDeleteI don't think people should be called Xers. I think a person's ntcc status ("in" or "out") should be described like bellybuttons - He's an "Innie"; she's an "Outie"!
DNA said:
Lol!
If you want to see a good example of Damage control, look at Ashmore and Meinecke's Youtube channel. They cranked out over 50 videos in 2 months but ever since we called out Associate Pastor Meinecke for his blood moon doctrine there hasn't been one (nairy) a video posted.
ReplyDeleteThat's funny about the qualifications they give about the teachers @ ntcc.
ReplyDeleteI can give a few more that came from rw via conference:
One of the teachers was called out because according to rw he couldn't put it together.
He was given churches and servicemens homes with tithe payers and people and he would run them down to the grown, this is according to rw at the conference.
I recall @ graham people would go to the kekls about advice to build a church! Really?
I recall the many times the ladies at the conference abstained from having relations with their husband because some of them remembered how one time at a conference some people were out eating with rw and as they were leaving this couple stood up and left and after they left he made a comment about how this couple had just had sex because they smelled like uknowwhat!
The ladies that said this were so brainwashed that they didn't think it was bad for him to say that!
They stated the fact that rw had a very acute sense of smell!
One time me and my husband was in a meeting with pilkington and his wife, (a set up meeting in our opinion) and he was going on about what they were going to do in the church how they could make things better and so on..so I caught him off guard and asked him a question,I said you say the women can't work outside of the home then why are all these sisters going to the local college in Killeen (Central Texas College)? They are getting a monthly amount and they are doing it outside of their home. They have to go to the school to do their assignments, work on a computer which you forbid them to have in their home. I said they are going outside of their home (working) and they are getting paid to do it, they are working outside of the home. That was the end of the meeting...the look on his face was priceless only if I had took a picture he was dumb founded..had no words to say..then he was like well they are not career minded....haha...how would you know...really..So if you are not career minded you can go to college..(sarcasm here)of course I got blasted..he called denis and denis said you don't ever ask the man of gosh a question like that catching him off guard and blah blah blah..but his facial expression and catching him off guard was worth the rebuke..
ReplyDeleteThis is a very good topic I was reading in the book of Samuel chapter 8, this is what it says about his sons. Verse 3, And his sons walked not in his ways, but turned aside after LUCRE(dishonest gain) sound familiar? took bribes, and perverted judgment. Then it says they wanted a king and it grieved Samuel but the Lord told him to hearken to their voice but he also said this is what this king will do,Verse 11, And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots. Verse 13, And he will take your daughters to be confectionaries, and to be cooks and to be bakers.. and if you keep reading this king just kept taking and giving nothing in return So this was not for their good but for their hurt and this sounds exactly like the things RWD and Ron Denis does just use and abuse people for their own selfish gain, pleasure and enjoyment. Constantly keeping the woman oppressed knowing what their potential really could be.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThat's funny about the qualifications they give about the teachers @ ntcc.
I can give a few more that came from rw via conference:
One of the teachers was called out because according to rw he couldn't put it together.
He was given churches and servicemens homes with tithe payers and people and he would run them down to the grown, this is according to rw at the conference.
I recall @ graham people would go to the kekls about advice to build a church! Really?
DNA said:
That's pretty funny. Most of their highly trained and experienced teachers are in Graham because they couldn't hack it in the ministry. They drove their churches into the ground so now they have been delegated to teaching classes and living in the Bonco. What a great reward for 3 or 4 decades worth of service. I wonder if they got a raise or if they are still making $25 per class and eating Ramen like the BS students, while Kekel who has never had the chance of pioneering a work or being a missionary or digging out a Servicemen's home is taking his wife out to their restaurant of choice every night in the $250,000.00 Mclaron.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"I recall the many times the ladies at the conference abstained from having relations with their husband because some of them remembered how one time at a conference some people were out eating with rw and as they were leaving this couple stood up and left and after they left he made a comment about how this couple had just had sex because they smelled like uknowwhat!
The ladies that said this were so brainwashed that they didn't think it was bad for him to say that!
They stated the fact that rw had a very acute sense of smell!"
DNA said:
What do you expect people to smell like when you house them in wooden shacks with no A/C or fans and make them take group showers in cold water after shouting and dancing in church when it's hot and humid all day and all night? How embarrassing and how sick is it to have someone like Davis making comments like that in front of people you know. I don't blame anyone for wanting to abstain from sex while they were around that Old Goat. The thought of him talking about what he smells is disgusting at the very least.
Just had a good time with some co workers... Stuff I would have missed having gone to NTCC. I would have had no money for 1/2 priced apps, no way would I try a half priced drink... I wasted some of the best years of my life on these pukes. I'm ticked off right now!!! All the good times I passed on, all the life I didn't get to live.. Only to make * Kekel and his entitled wife wealthier. I'd rather dance with the devil who admits he's the devil than dance with the devil in angels clothing. Screw you NTCC
ReplyDeleteCan smell when someone has sex? What complete rubish. Marshall used to claim the same thing. Must have got his super sense of smell from Davis. Only problem Marshall claimed this when my spouse and I did not have sex, took a shower prior to church and had clean clothes on. What idiots!
ReplyDeleteI also remember Davis' all knowing led him to believe and announce a member was masturbating when he came out of the bathroom. The poor guy was devastated and the whole table sat in silence.
Also, I quickly found out how Marshall and Davis knew things via the Holy Ghost. Everyone was spying on each other. I chastised my husband more than once for following members in his car for Marshall's information. Remember the saying, "the holy ghost works by information and inspiration." Those idiots only worked via information!
Marshall encouraged all his members to move into subpar trailer/shack park down from the soldiers home in Tillicum, WA. This way he could keep an eye on his flock. I refused to move into that ghetto. Tillicum at that time was nothing but drugs and assaults.
I could go on but I will give it a rest for now.
Cherrie said:
ReplyDelete"They have to go to the school to do their assignments, work on a computer which you forbid them to have in their home. I said they are going outside of their home (working) and they are getting paid to do it, they are working outside of the home."
DNA said:
Sounds like more double standards to me. The more rules they expect others to follow, the more they break themselves. Denis is also a double standard hypocrite and a false teacher and prophet just like Davis. Among Denis's false teachings was that the internet was the mark of the beast. Anytime a religious nut like Denis or Davis tells you that something is a sin, and then they turn around and make exceptions, they are showing their true sinful nature and their hypocrisy. Davis and Kekel used to do the same thing. They would make exceptions which usually benefited them financially in some way. Many times they would get caught and they would be outed by X-members so they would have to reverse themselves and take immediate damage control measures, like they did with the 39 acre land deal. What a fiasco that was. There were ministers that left over that maneuver.
Cherrie said:
ReplyDelete"So this was not for their good but for their hurt and this sounds exactly like the things RWD and Ron Denis does just use and abuse people for their own selfish gain, pleasure and enjoyment. Constantly keeping the woman oppressed knowing what their potential really could be."
DNA said: That is a good comparison. Denis and Davis were both living like Kings that were forcing their will upon people. The bad that they done, the damage and the wake of carnage that they left behind them is not something they will enjoy answering for because so much of what they did was for their own benefit and not that of the people who trusted them. What did they really accomplish other than get rich off of the work of others? There is no lasting work they have accomplished that is going to help the people who were loyal to them. Denis isn't doing anyone any favors. He's even more controlling than the ntcc is, but church members under his ministry aren't be nurtured or protected in anyway by him. He's using them just like Davis used them. He knew that the ntcc was compromising their standards and he seen an opportunity to exploit some people and get a bigger piece of the pie.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"I'd rather dance with the devil who admits he's the devil than dance with the devil in angels clothing."
DNA said:
I hear you. You are much better off being yourself and being real. When I got out of the ntcc, I didn't look them up on the internet and tried to just get on with my life with as little interference from them as possible. Of course I thought I was on my way to hell the whole time, but now I'm not so sure. For some reason that I can't explain, I don't think God ever forsook me, no matter what I did. What if Grace goes beyond what we've been taught? What if God loves us like His own children and never stops even though we give up? I lived under the delusion that there was no hope for me because I felt like I deserted the ntcc. I can tell you that you may have left the ntcc, but I doubt God has deserted you. So you enjoy a half price app or drink, is that as detrimental as what the ntcc does to people? After what you have endured spiritually in the ntcc, maybe you shouldn't be that hard on yourself. The ntcc projects all the negative stuff on you. They get you walking on egg shells all your life thinking that every little mistake you make is pushing God further away from you. Do you ever wonder why God put the story of the prodigal son in the bible? To me it shows that God's love never leaves a person, and that God is not like the ntcc, waiting to kick someone to the curb when they are done using them. I drank and smoked when I left the ntcc and lived under a cloud of condemnation, because that's all I knew. I was way to hard on myself and didn't realize that God could ever care about me. Looking back on it all, it was all a bunch of brainwashing. I think leaving the ntcc and learning how the world actually works, and learning how to do things with your own two hands is a good thing. I try not to focus on the years I wasted in the ntcc anymore. I'm sure we can all look back and say that if we hadn't wasted so many years in the ntcc, there is no telling where we could be today. We can't really change the past, but we can keep ourselves from repeating it and warn others along the way not to make the same mistakes. As for the future? Well, it never looked brighter. Once you unlearn the ntcc way, and stop allowing their teachings to interfere with your life, you are on your way to living a fulfilling life.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDeleteRemember the saying, "the holy ghost works by information and inspiration." Those idiots only worked via information!"
DNA said:
I remember them saying that. They would always say the Holy Ghost told me this or that and then they would threaten with judgment and hell. If a person didn't conform to the ntcc way and left, they had a little checklist.
1. discredit them so nobody else will believe them.
2. run them off for ever and never welcome them back.
3. use them as an example so that others will fear.
God don't treat people like that and neither does the Holy Ghost. It's all showman ship. Look how spiritual I am and how God shares the secrets of everybody's heart with me. In actuality it's a bunch of Rats, that like to tell on people to the pastor so they can get a scooby snack. That ain't God telling them anything. Then they end up robbing a bank and getting all 'crossed up' with God themselves. What a bunch of sick people. The ones that act the most spiritual and say that it's God doing everything all the time, seem to be the ones that have the most skeletons in their closets.
Be advised the Vikings are going to win the Superbowl. The Cowboys are going to go 2-14. Tom Brady is going to retire. Payment Manning is only going to complete 44% of his passes. John Elway is going to replace Manning. The Jets are going to all die in a horrible plane crash. Rex Ryan is going to become commish of the NFL.
ReplyDeleteJust some thoughts on the NFL.
Brother Ken I would like to give you an update, first I want everyone to know my heart goes out to all the victims of Johnny Jordan, and to those that did not believe my story of the rape at the Eiller Street dorm, Johnny did apologize for hurting me. I have forgave him, and I will do what ever I can to help him finding his way to healing. though one must take responsibility for there action, Johnny did have a trouble past growing up, and I want to say shame on George his brother for letting Davis talk him in to thinking he could help Johnny. Davis never wanted any one to get professional help, he never had any real psychology training, and could not help a fly. any thing that could draw attention to NTCC Davis was against. I know a lot of people will not understand, healing came to me because I forgave, but most important as a retired minister, and still a leader in my church as a Christian, it is my duty to help all people to find there way to Christ. Johnny is a lost soul that needs God. and to know that someone cares about him also. and I hope in time He will apologize to all the people he hurt.
ReplyDeleteI think rw finally relented about this issue when there was a minister that had a breakdown and came to the graham chapel dressed up and carrying a sword.
ReplyDeleteWhoaaaaaaaa... Explain the who dressed up carrying a sword thing.
ReplyDeleteMike
The more I read the book of Hebrews the more clearly I see that they are two totally different covenants. The Old was unable to do what the New has done. It must really grieve God to see groups like the ntcc taking a doctrine like tithe from the Old Testament and applying it to the New Testament. The Hebrew Roots Movement loves to take Old Testament feasts and laws and practice them as if the New Testament was not enough. The ntcc does the same thing with tithe. Surely God didn't know what He was doing when He inspired the men He chose to pen down His words. God needed the Catholic Church to come along 100 years after the death of Christ and reconstitute tithe into their doctrine so that Rome, the Catholic church and the Pope could be the richest religious institution in the world. All of the other churches that hopped on this bandwagon have done so because of money.
ReplyDeleteThe Author of Hebrews whom many believe to be Paul was rebuking the Hebrew church because the Israelite people as a whole rejected Jesus and continued living by the law. They continued the feasts and sacraments that were done away with by the death of the Son of God on the Cross. A lengthy Epistle was written to the Hebrews in which the Author clearly explained that the Old Testament laws were done away with and the New Testament was now in effect. The Old Tabernacle was done away with and now we have a New Tabernacle not made with hands. What the law could not do, Jesus did through His death, burial and resurrection. In Chapter 11 of Hebrews the author explains that it has always been faith that pleases God, not the law given to Moses. He talks about Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and Joseph all pleasing God before the Law. Then it goes on to talk about how Moses pleased God, but it his faith in God before the Law was even given to him that Pleased God. It went on to talk about Joshua, Rahab, and many others to include Samuel and David who all pleased God through Faith and they hadn't even seen the promise for themselves but they believed none the less. During the time of the Old Testament God said: "Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;" Heb. 10:8 and then later said these words: "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more." Heb. 10:16-17
Bro. Ken said:
ReplyDelete"I have forgave him, and I will do what ever I can to help him finding his way to healing. though one must take responsibility for there action,"
DNA said:
Thank you brother Ken for sharing that. We all can learn from your actions and how you handled this situation. I'm sure there are people in the ntcc that will criticize you for the way you handled this, but who are they to criticize anyone. You did the right thing, while they did nothing. Many times the X-er community are the only ones that can even attempt to clean up the messes that RW, Kekel and the ntcc leaves behind. While they are busy getting rich or trying to obtain the approval of the leaders above them, they do absolutely nothing for the victims of abuse or for those who have come out of broken homes and families. Davis was too busy trying to hide his own sin to help someone like Johnny Jordan. George was too busy worshiping Davis and probably didn't want to acknowledge that there was a problem. George has always projected and lashed out at others. If you look at FACTNET George used to get on there and say baseless things that had no substance and he really ended up looking like a used up pawn in the ntcc leadership's hands that couldn't even defend his own positions. I hope the Jordans find their way out of the ntcc, because I believe that Georges wife Kathy and some of their family are not as judgmental towards people as the others are. After all we were all caught up in that mess for years and made our own share of mistakes.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteBe advised the Vikings are going to win the Superbowl. The Cowboys are going to go 2-14. Tom Brady is going to retire. Payment Manning is only going to complete 44% of his passes. John Elway is going to replace Manning. The Jets are going to all die in a horrible plane crash. Rex Ryan is going to become commish of the NFL.
Just some thoughts on the NFL.
DNA said:
Now that, my friends is insane. The Vikings may get close, and it's possible but not probable that Brady could retire, but everything else you predicted is humorous but absurd at the same time. Good luck with that!
Brady just announced his retirement on ESPN7. Manning just signed with the Patriots.
ReplyDeleteAlso, just FYI, ILB Erik Kendricks will win the D Rookie of the year.
In his psychology classes, RW did tell us to not mess around with serious mental illness, but to engage professionals. He told us we weren't equipped to deal with profoundly disturbed people. I remember thinking that was pretty weak, because if Jesus can raise the dead he can certainly fix someone's emotional and mental problems (although now I believe he was talking sense on that topic). But for "routine" counseling, he didn't want anyone going outside the church "leadership."
ReplyDeleteThe sword situation was interesting. That guy used to post on the blogs, and some of the things he said about NTCC were very perceptive and right on the money. But NTCC got him involuntarily committed, and were able to wrest him back into their orbit. He did have some major issues, which hanging around the org no doubt exacerbated.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteWhoaaaaaaaa... Explain the who dressed up carrying a sword thing.
Mike
DNA said:
A guy named Blaine McAuliffe claimed he had received a message from God concerning the Board members in Graham and the Bonco. The message or prophesy that he had was that God was not pleased with the ntcc leadership and that God was not pleased with the way they were living in luxury in the Bonco. He said something to the effect that God would destroy the Bonco, or tear it down or take it away from them. Then Blaine went to Johnson, Kekel, Olson and finally Davis and confronted them personally with this message but they said he was wrong and that God would never tell him that. He eventually came to a church service one night wearing a sword, a cape and a crown. He knocked on the back door and one of the brothers let him in at 7:25 pm just before church got ready to start. He got up behind the pulpit and started preaching about his message to the board members and that God hated the Bonco. Blaine never once threatened anyone with his sword, in fact it was a ceremonial sword that had no blade on it. According to one account it took about 9 people to wrestle him down and throw him out of the church.
The ntcc convinced the authorities to throw him in jail and he rotated back and forth from a mental institution to the Pierce County jail. Only one concerned ntcc minister visited him and tried to help him while he was in jail and in ward at the mental facility. This former ntcc minister of over 30 years who has contributed a lot on our blog shared this with us. We don't use his name on our blog for reasons that we mutually understand but he has probably done as much for the X-er community behind the scenes than as anyone has ever done. He also shared that Blaine helped him realize some of the corruption within the ntcc leadership. At one point this former ntcc minister and Blaine mailed the following short version of a letter to all of the ntcc ministers on the locator. It read as follows:
"$5,000 REWARD {$1000 EACH}
payable to the individual who causes THE PROSECUTION, AND RESIGNATION OF THE FOLLOWING LEADERS OF NTCC OF AMERICA, INC.
Rev. R.W. Davis
Rev. M.C. Kekel
Rev. J.H. Olson
Rev. J.L. Johnson
Rev. P.A. Kinson"
Blaine signed it "Messenger of Satan"
To Be Continued.....
Continued....
ReplyDeleteAt some point the police got a warrant and found about 10 guns in Blaine's residence. Blaine was thought by many to be insane, but who is to be the judge of insanity? We all were nuts for attending the ntcc and many of us were pushed beyond what most humans have to go through in life. Isaiah was told by God to walk naked for three years and I'm sure a lot of people thought he was a nut. Isaiah was a prophet so he was most likely prophesying during that time against all the religious hypocrites of his time.
Now the minister who helped Blaine write all of those letters and send them to the ntcc ministers didn't believe that Blaine was insane even though he was bipolar and they had him on medication. He told me that much of what Blaine shared made a lot of sense to him but not all of it. I know that Blaine got a bad rap by the ntcc and the X-er community but I personally have heard nothing that has been shared that makes me think his views of the ntcc were motivated by his mental instability. He had a blog at one time and I never was able to read it and there were a few people that felt some of the things he shared on his blog were disturbing. As for signing his letter to the ntcc leadership as "The messenger of Satan", I can see how people feel that way but I can also see it as satire. Greg used to call himself, "Gregory the Unlearned" on his blog because Kekel called him unlearned. I'm sure Davis and others probably called Blain "The messenger of Satan". Well they didn't care much about him when he was in jail but they managed to convince his wife to convince him to go back to the ntcc. They need every tithe dollar they can get in the ntcc and they convinced Blaine to go back and there you will find him, another ntcc tragic story whose probably going to live the rest of his life paying tithe and riding a church pew in Graham, WA.
I remember him back when he was at a servicemens home.
ReplyDeleteHe was very spiritual kind of guy, a nice fellow.
Later on when rw brought up his illness at the conference we found out from some of his members that he used to go praying outside and he would come back and tell the brothers that God would show him spirits hiding in the trees and other he would see different kind of animals talking, just stuff like that.
The last time I saw him and his wife in graham, he was like a zombie.
His dear wife would lead him in and out of the chapel. Really sad.
Sometimes I think that the org makes people act weird and some just can't take it and go bonkers.
I knew some ministers who had wives who were also under medication and all you had to do was pray that u wouldn't come to that.
James 1:9-10 "Let the brother of low degree rejoice in that he is exalted: But the rich, in that he is made low: because as the flower of the grass he shall pass away."
ReplyDeleteIn the ntcc, the brother of low degree is everyone who is not bringing in money and numbers. In the eyes of the ntcc, you're only purpose is to pay tithe and bring other potential tithe payers to church. In the ntcc there are only two categories or two classes of people. The rich who got rich by fleecing the poor and the poor who became poor by getting fleeced by the rich. According to James its the poor who are going to be exalted and the rich hypocrites like Kekel are going to be brought low. It's the rich people that God warns us about. Which rich people do you think are being talked about? Those who choose money over God, or those who make merchandise of the people of God should be the most worried. I don't think God has a problem with people being rich if they worked for their money and they don't use their status to look down their nose at folks that have nothing. Judgment first begins at the house of the Lord, therefore I think God looks at the religious hypocrites that have accumulated wealth by lying to their congregations and telling them or implying that if they don't pay tithe that they will go to hell. And then that tithe money is used by a hireling like Kekel to buy all the nice things money can buy and become filthy rich. Then he gets up behind the pulpit and tells people how to live and who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. That's exactly who James is talking about. He's talking about people just like Kekel and Davis. They are already low in the eyes of God but they will be brought down and laid low for the world to see, because you can't just use the people of God to get rich.
James 1:22 "But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves."
ReplyDeleteDavis used to preach this but he never lived it. The whole time he was preaching against the devil vision, he had them in his million dollar mansion and he had two of them in his million dollar Recreational Vehicle. Davis was a money grubbing hypocrite that used to preach against all of the other religions like they were the enemies of God while his quaint little ntcc inc. organization was pure as the wind driven snow. Davis was a hearer of the word and not a doer. Most of the rules were made for others to follow, not him. He would control the relationships of others, but do you think he allowed anyone to tell him who he was allowed to date, or which women he was allowed to commit adultery with, or which underage girl he was allowed to molest? He was a hearer of the word of God, definitely not a doer. But if you were to skip a tithe payment or argue about how much you 'owed', you would be better off as a child molester in the ntcc. Child molesters get hidden and harbored, while people who argue about tithe get crucified spiritually. In fact if you are a victim of molestation or rape, the predator that molested you or raped you has a better chance of surviving the ordeal in the ntcc than you do. You will be told to move on and find another church while the predator is allowed to continue to lurk among the ntcc children and women while he looks for his next victim. Most of you ntcc'rs choose to follow people like this. You have an entire board that needs to be removed from leadership of the ntcc and all you have to do is vote them out. But even thought there has been much more than two or three witnesses, you will allow them to continue, business as usual. Don't you dare rock the boat.
James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."
ReplyDeletePure religion. When is the last time that the ntcc went to an orphanage or visited the widows in their affliction? It's all about helping people that can't help themselves and the ntcc does not have pure religion, they have religious hypocrisy.