I See The LORD: Holy, Holy, Holy!

In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.

Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, [is] the LORD of hosts: the whole earth [is] full of his glory.

And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke.

Isa 6:1-4

Video Link

Then said I, Woe [is] me! for I am undone; because I [am] a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.

Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, [which] he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:

And he laid [it] upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here [am] I; send me.

Isa 6:5-8

The Unforgiven

 Are You Unforgiven? 

An Anonymous comment was left on a previous thread entitled Return to Normalcy Toolkit:

Anonymous said:

"Don, that must be some of the best advice post-NTCC that I've ever read. De-programming is a slow process and we were taught to act and react in certain ways. Hopefully over time we can become less critical and more loving and more like Christ."

Our response turned into a comment long enough to be a thread so we will make it a new thread.

Don and Ange said:

"I'm not an expert by any stretch, but for me the de-programming took place during when I left the ntcc and God.  For 14 years I learned that the best way to de-program was to be free from it all. I learned the hard way; but much of it worked.  I did many of the things on this list except for that which pertained to serving God.

When I did come back to God, there was a new struggle.  The first step in this process was to realize that God still loved me.  He wasn't sitting up in heaven with lightning bolts waiting to strike me down.  God wanted me back.  Then I had to look at that huge portion of my life spent in the ntcc and try to sort out the good from the bad.  Recognizing that the ntcc was a cult was easy for me at this point.  They were not interested in getting me back; God was.  They were not interested in loving me any more; God was.  If you don't believe this, try crawling back to them and see how accepting and forgiving they are. Oh sure, you'll get the same old love-bombing they used to 'win' you into ntcc; but they will never really trust you.  Like davis often says, "I forgive; but I don't forget!"  Well, I've got news for him:  God was ready to forgive me immediately; and God forgets!!

What's really cool about God is that He loves us and deals with us on a personal level.  I never dreamed that God would ever care about me again.  I was programmed to believe that there would never be any hope for me.  People that leave the ntcc believe this also.  It seems so hopeless; but when you feel the love of God in your life again it erases all the erroneous teachings, all the poor examples of ntcc style Christianity that make people so critical of others.  We were De-eXisted by the ntcc because we were no longer of use to them.  They practice the opposite of everything that God is all about.

Instead of loving people they see them for what value those people can be to ntcc's program.  Instead of comforting folks they instill fear in them.  Instead of helping people they use them for stepping stones to become more like the greedy leaders they serve.  They don't practice Christian values.  They call themselves the Children of God and everyone else is a sinner.  Their only interest in the sinner is to convert them into individual stacks of money.  This is what they are after.  Rwd doesn't want to help anyone, in fact every time I've sought spiritual advise from him he'd just pass the buck and say "Pray."

You can pray and pray and pray, as I did; but if you don't have the love and support of the leaders that demand respect and loyalty from you, you find yourself on a one-way dead end road. There is no where to go. You pray; but they won't change.

It's like going to the SPCA and rescuing a dog.  The dog loves you because his previous conditions were deplorable.  You pet the dog and feed him and in turn that dog is grateful that he is no longer living in a disease infested prison waiting to be euthanized.  You allow the dog to live in the house and show it attention every day; and that dog in turn loves you unconditionally.  It follows you around.  It waits for you to come home from work.  It greets you in the morning when you wake up.  The dog loves you and asks for nothing in return but to be part of your life.

At some point the dog has an accident or does something that makes you mad.

A cruel person would chain the dog to a dog house and feed and water it, and tell everyone, "This is my dog".  The dog of course doesn't understand.  He used to be part of your life, now he sees you for five minutes a day and spends his life pacing back and forth.  Many times he runs out of water and doesn't get enough food.  He has ticks and mosquito bites and still all he really wants is love.

Some dog owners  will take that same dog for a ride.  The dog thinks, this is great he's letting me out of my prison; he loves me again; but something is wrong.  There is no love.  They'll drive for an hour and drop the dog off on the side of the road and speed off.  The dog waits, and waits.  The dog can't understand what happened to the love He once knew.  How could they do this? The dog then wanders around lost not knowing where his next meal is going to come from, not knowing if he'll ever be loved again. The dog doesn't have survival skills because he was taught to depend on those he loved for everything. Perhaps something horrible will befall him like being torn apart by a wild animal or getting hit by a car.

Rejected and Abused

I was like this dog.  I loved the ntcc and the people that were in it.  I was taught to trust them and depend on them.  But I also loved God.  When these people left me on the side of the road I wandered around and had no peace in my heart.  I wondered over and over how they could be so cold and cruel.  I didn't blame them or God; but I equated their love for God's love.  I thought if they don't love me anymore than neither does God.  This was my mistake; and this is what caused me so many years of grief.

God is Love; the ntcc leadership is not.  They teach you not to love and not to forgive.  They laugh at grace and mercy and tout individual responsibility and works.  The ntcc does not try to reconcile folks unless it profits ntcc.  The only thing that we are trying to get across to folks in the ntcc is that God loves you and doesn't want you to waste anymore of your life.  God doesn't want you to become like those you honor and trust.  God want's you to become more like Him.  He wants you to have love and grace and mercy and peace in your life.

The Dog may never trust a human again and may never find the love he once knew.  We are not dogs but we were created with a soul that was made to love God.  We were loved and always will be loved by God.  The ntcc has failed.  As an organization they have left their first love and they no longer have any compassion, mercy or love. If they did, they would stand up against the establishment and do what is right.  God is walking to and fro among them looking for someone that will stand for what is right.  They can ignore us on the outside and say we are just bitter; but if a significant number on the inside that would unite and stand for what they once knew to be right, they could make a huge difference.  To the ntcc you will become as we are:  "The Unforgiven".

But to God, we are Precious, a peculiar people, a Holy Priesthood, washed in His blood; because God so loved us that He gave His only begotten Son...

Have You Been Told?  Watch On YouTube >>

Return to Normalcy Toolkit

It has been shared that when a person leaves the ntcc, there is an undeniable transition that takes place.  There is a healing process that also takes place and for many this is something that happens over the span of  the rest of their lives.  Talking on the phone with Jeff the other day he said something to me that bears repeating.  You never fully recover from the ntcc experience.  You never get over it.  Jeff is doing a very great work and we admire his resolve in this fight.  If anyone has done a great job of getting on with their life it is Jeff.  I believe that God has blessed him for taking a stand against the ntcc.  He has his priorities straight, he is prospering in so many ways and he enjoys his life with his wife and children.  I'm not saying this to eat a bunch of cheese, but I'm saying this because in spite of everything he has and all he does,  Jeff has stated that the ntcc experience stays with you for the rest of your life.

We have scoured the blogs and found countless stories of lasting damage caused by the ntcc in peoples lives.  This damage in many cases seems irreversible and only God can heal those whose hearts have been broken.  When that happens there still remain memories and questions that people have a hard time dealing with.  Many will say give it all to God and let time and God heal you.  When everything is said and the veneer wears away, there are voices that must be heard.  There is a need to share.  When you keep things bottled up inside you, they eat away at you and that is where true bitterness takes place.  When you begin to share those experiences with others that have gone through the same thing you begin to feel true healing.

Many people just want their lives to be normal.  In the words of Doc Holiday, there is no normal life, there's just life.  This is true in many cases but when you have been living on the edge of  "extreme" you desire a return to normalcy in your life.  We have a life outside of the blogs.  Blogging is very therapeutic but you have to do things to enjoy your life so you can bring things into perspective and achieve balance in your life.  God has given us a planet to enjoy.  When I come home from work, sometimes I have to wind down before I can fall asleep.  When your life has been going a trillion miles per hour, sometimes you have to wind down and enjoy yourself a bit.  What do you enjoy doing?  Can you allow yourself to have fun without feeling condemnation?

The following is a list of things that people might consider to bring about a sense of normalcy in their lives.

1.  Treat yourself.  Do something for you and you alone.  Go somewhere or buy yourself something that you've always wanted.  Realize that it's okay to have nice things and it's not a sin to do something for yourself.

2.  Do something nice for the loved ones in your life.  It feels great to make a difference in the life of the ones you love the most.  I buy my wife plants and flowers and stuff.  It feels so good when you give to someone you love.

3.  Show kindness and take opportunities to help those that are in need.  Example:  When I see another truck driver that needs help, I take the time to help them.  If they need a jump or help securing their load, I think, what if it were me or someone I love?  There is satisfaction that goes along with loving your neighbor as yourself.

4.  Show kindness and have charity towards a complete stranger that doesn't have anything.  Buy a KFC dinner or a combo meal for someone that is homeless or afflicted.  It's not a sin or a waste of money to help someone who is helpless.  We have been taught that they are in that position because they made the wrong decisions in life, but allow your heart to be tender towards those in need and you will find a degree of peace in your heart.

5.  Load up your family, wife, kids or friends and go somewhere fun.  Go see something you haven't seen.  Find a state park or something in your area that you've always wondered about and enjoy the afternoon.

6.  Get a dog or a cat.  I'm not crazy about cats but to me dogs are very cool.  If you like cats don't allow the ntcc teaching to deprive you of having something you want. It's not a sin to have a dog or a cat or an alpaca as long as you take care of it.  This sounds crazy but before I met Ange, I had a dog that kept me company in my truck and I enjoyed it.  That dog loved me without any conditions.  Don't let the ntcc dictate to you that you can't love animals or have one of your own.  I'm not talking about anything freaky or unnatural.  It's sad but sometimes a dog can be better company than some humans.

7.  Try to separate false teachings from what's really in the bible.  Download the blue letter bible for free and study the scripture on each questionable subject that you were taught by the ntcc.  Look at every scripture pertaining to that subject  in the bible and take it in context.  Filter out all the garbage and trash that the ntcc taught you and keep only what is in God's word.  Try to unlearn all that was said that never made sense by studying what God says about it in His word.  Keep that which is written and get rid of the rules that restrict your freedom in God.

8.  The greatest of all commandments is to love God and your neighbor.  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.  If you concentrate on these two everything else will fall into place.

9.  Don't condemn yourself for past mistakes and failures.  Try to learn from your past by changing the way you do things now.  We can't find any peace if we condemn ourselves all the time.  What is done is done and can not be changed.  But we do not have to repeat our past mistakes.  Forgive yourself and you will find it is easier to forgive others.

10. Share your past experiences with others.  If you do not feel comfortable talking about it with anyone you know, try blogging.  Post anonymously if you want and realize that there are many that have gone through what you are going through.  We all have differing opinions and views but don't take things personally if someone disagrees with you.  If you don't feel comfortable with this than get some professional help.  Find someone that you can talk to and let it all out.  All you need is a listener and if you can get some of this off your chest you will feel much better.

11.  Trust your instincts and believe in yourself.  Don't let others walk on you or think less of you because you no longer live under the delusions of the ntcc.  If it looks or smells bad, it probably is bad.  The ntcc has spent years teaching us not to trust our own feelings and even after you've been out for years they still want to tell you that you are wrong.  Don't let them tell you that you are bitter and angry.  You know the real deal.

12.  Don't be afraid to ask questions and don't be too quick to believe everything you hear.  Study things out in life before making big decisions.  When people want you to believe something really bad, question their motives.  That doesn't mean to think bad about everyone or not to trust anyone, but don't be too quick to jump on somebody's bandwagon without knowing what they are all about.

We hope some of this might help you.  These are things that we try to practice in our lives but there will always be memories and clouds of doubt that try to obscure the true light.  This is our way of getting on with life.

Don and Ange

Life's 45 Most Important Lessons by Regina Brett of the Plain Dealer, Cleveland, Ohio

 Dew Drops On Hydrangeas
 An Every-Day Miracle 

Written by Regina Brett, 90 years old, of the Plain Dealer, Cleveland , Ohio .
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"To celebrate growing older, I once wrote the 45 lessons life taught me. It is the most requested column I've ever written.
My odometer rolled over to 90 in August, so here is the column once more:

1. Life isn't fair, but it's still good.

2. When in doubt, just take the next small step.

3. Life is too short to waste time hating anyone.

4. Your job won't take care of you when you are sick. Your friends and parents will. Stay in touch.

5. Pay off your credit cards every month.

6. You don't have to win every argument. Agree to disagree.

7. Cry with someone. It's more healing than crying alone.

8. It's OK to get angry with God. He can take it.

9. Save for retirement starting with your first paycheck.

10. When it comes to chocolate, resistance is futile.

11. Make peace with your past so it won't screw up the present.

12. It's OK to let your children see you cry.

13. Don't compare your life to others. You have no idea what their journey is all about.

14. If a relationship has to be a secret, you shouldn't be in it.

15. Everything can change in the blink of an eye. But don't worry; God never blinks.

16. Take a deep breath. It calms the mind.

17. Get rid of anything that isn't useful, beautiful or joyful.

18. Whatever doesn't kill you really does make you stronger.

19. It's never too late to have a happy childhood. But the second one is up to you and no one else.

20. When it comes to going after what you love in life, don't take no for an answer.

21. Burn the candles, use the nice sheets, wear the fancy lingerie. Don't save it for a special occasion. Today is special.

22. Over prepare, then go with the flow.

23. Be eccentric now. Don't wait for old age to wear purple.

24. The most important sex organ is the brain.

25. No one is in charge of your happiness but you.

26. Frame every so-called disaster with these words 'In five years, will this matter?'

27. Always choose life.

28. Forgive everyone everything.

29. What other people think of you is none of your business.

30. Time heals almost everything. Give time time.

31. However good or bad a situation is, it will change.

32. Don't take yourself so seriously. No one else does.

33. Believe in miracles.

34. God loves you because of who God is, not because of anything you did or didn't do.

35. Don't audit life. Show up and make the most of it now.

36. Growing old beats the alternative -- dying young.

37. Your children get only one childhood.

38. All that truly matters in the end is that you loved.

39. Get outside every day. Miracles are waiting everywhere.

40. If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else's, we'd grab ours back.

41. Envy is a waste of time.. You already have all you need.

42. The best is yet to come....

43. No matter how you feel, get up, dress up and show up.

44. Yield.

45. Life isn't tied with a bow, but it's still a gift."

Psalm One by Eden's Bridge

Some things are too good to keep to yourself.  Some things are so good, you hesitate to share them with others...  This song qualifies in both ways. ;~)   

Psalm One by Eden's Bridge

For my money, they could have left off the picture of the passed-out drunk for the "wicked man"  {2:22-2:24}; instead it should be a picture of a very religious man, a whited sepulchre, scowling down on a congregation, while taking them for every penny they have.  After all, Christ contended mightily with the Pharisees in their robes, with their meeting places, and titles, and seeking favor among men...  He told them they made the commandment of God of none effect teaching man's tradition, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.  Sound familiar?  Think about it.

Mobile Views

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The Mobile View works with home computers for viewing; but some can't comment in that format.  There seems to be a JavaScript conflict.
 
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Blackberry users:  Sorry; but the codes just haven't been hammered out yet.  You may see the new look; but many links won't work. (You won't be able to click into much of anything.)

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To access this blog's different pages, click on the down arrow on the right side of the light blue bar beneath the blog header.  (See Figure 1)

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Clicking that arrow will open a drop-down box with this blog's page links.  Highlight a  page title (Worship Videos) and click to go to that page.  (See Figure 2)


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Having Your Say on MSNBC

Dear Readers:  MSNBC is having a documentary team put together  a series about groups like ntcc. The documentary team is especially looking for stories of folks who have left ntcc within the last year.  Others may share their experience.

  

We encourage you to use your voice and let people know what your ntcc experience was like.

You may contact the documentary team at clpdocumentary@gmail.com

We recommend placing "ntcc" and your initials or "anon" in the subject line of your correspondence.

This is an update to our previous post:  Documentary (factual series) on NTCC?  You Decide

The team has already covered one group.  Now the team is looking for more.  Feel free to share your story and be a part.  Your voice matters!

Let Them Go or The Mass Exodus

 ...the LORD said unto Moses ...
 stand before Pharaoh ...
 and say unto him,
 Let my people go. 

On June 6th we found this great material on mck's blog entitled "Letting Go".  We thought it seemed fitting due to the recent exodus from the ntcc to post this "stuff"quoting one anonymous ntcc'r who wrote, "Wow, good stuff"!  This is material that was borrowed from T.D. Jakes.   The following two paragraphs are excerpts:

"There are people who can walk away from you. And hear me when I tell you this! When people can walk away from you: let them walk. I don't want you to try to talk another person into staying with you, loving you, calling you, caring about you, coming to see you, staying attached to you. I mean hang up the phone. When people can walk away from you let them walk. Your destiny is never tied to anybody that left."
"Let me tell you something.. . I've got the gift of good-bye. It's the tenth spiritual gift, I believe in good-bye.. . It's not that I'm hateful, it's that I'm faithful, and I know whatever God means for me to have He'll give it to me. And if it takes too much sweat I don't need it. Stop begging people to stay. Let them go.

We re-titled it "Let Them Go or The Mass Exodus" because it seemed good to the Holy Ghost; and because we can.  It also seems very fitting due to recent information of long time preachers in good standing leaving what is correctly termed as an organization.  It could be called a church but seems to be less and less the body of Christ than it ever was considered to be.  It is a family run business that is starting to crumble as projected by it's founder; that stated on numerous occasions that "History shows that a holiness organization only lasts 30 to 40 years; and then enters compromise."

As mck quoting T.D. Jakes, said:  "And if it takes too much sweat I don't need it.  Stop begging people to stay.  Let them go".  How many times have we heard this?  Let them go.  You want to leave?  There's the door.  If you walk out that door, we are not coming after you.  Don't knock on brother so and so's door any more; he has chosen not to be a brother.  God doesn't need them; or, God doesn't need you.  God can build his church without them or without you.  Sound familiar?

We've heard many reports lately of people leaving; and to be honest we probably have more accurate info on this than most ntcc'rs.  I recently heard that the Dorsie's left two years ago.  There's probably more people in the Xer community that know this than there are in the ntcc; because they are not allowed to speak of such things.  We have heard that attendance in Graham is down to 1/2 of what it has been; and churches in that area have been consolidated.  Most of this is old news; but it's kept from many on the inside; because they are a cult; and they know if they are truthful and honest about these things that many, many more will leave.  If you are an ntcc'r and you want to know what's going on in your organization,  just follow the blogs; and you will see people commenting on these blogs that you thought were still in.!

Most people that are hanging on for dear life do so out of fear.  They equate leaving the ntcc with burning in the lake of fire for eternity.  That fear is the mortar that holds the ntcc bricks together.  When people see compromise they realize that the ntcc has changed; and they know that God is not supposed to change.  That fear that keeps them in the ntcc begins to crumble like bad mortar.  Of course there are many that would follow mck and rwd to the Red Sea.

Moses said, "Let my people go" and Pharaoh hardened his heart.  What will it take for rwd and mck to follow those that are leaving in mass exodus down to the Red Sea?  They want slaves; but most men desire freedom.  Many are rising to the occasion and leaving the ntcc.   Yes we have heard reports of a mass exodus; and while it is sad that the ntcc could have been something great and wonderful, it has been reduced to these three words: "Let them go".  


What about all the sweat and labor it took to reach them?  Doesn't matter, it wasn't their sweat.  Let them go.  What about the men and women that have been a part of your program for decades?  Let them go.  What about people that have given tens of thousands of dollars to the ntcc out of love for God?  Let them go.  What about those who cleaned your house on weekends, washed and waxed your expensive cars and Motor homes, and cleaned the sanctuary of God for you?  Let them go.  What about those that have attended every stinking church service you ever had for year after year after year?  Let them go.  What about those that have physically given everything they could to build your empire, and remodel your buildings for peanuts so that you could sit on escrows of more than a quarter million dollars?  Let them go.  What about those that have preached sermon after sermon, run servicemen's homes, and were missionaries in foreign lands?  Let them go!

It sounds to me like you would be doing them all a favor if you would let everyone go worship God in the wilderness!  Because what you are doing to them now is destructive and wasteful.  Why don't you be honest with the ntcc congregation and tell them all of the deeds you have done.  Why don't you tell them where the money is going?  Why don't you tell them where the people are going?   Why don't you tell them that holiness was never a doctrine that was intended to bring them closer to God; but it was used to control their lives and their pocket books.  Why don't you tell people where God has gone?  Why don't you tell them why God has changed?  Why don't you tell them why God's word has changed?  You brought about these changes.  Why will you not have the decency to tell them?

The ntcc is a sinking ship!  And we hope that people will escape before it is too late.  People are hell-bent on defending the ntcc leadership unto death.  Doesn't matter what we say; or who leaves.  It doesn't matter what the leadership does; the members will believe a lie.  If olson says that stealing a paperclip from work is a sin, how can he justify the misappropriation of so much money in the ntcc?  It never ends!  And it never will until people wise up and wake up.  The ntcc has twisted the rules for years and years now for whatever purpose suits their needs;  and people go along with it.  We will continue to speak out against them.  You can call us bitter if you want to.  We have been accused of ruining peoples lives.  I submit to you that if the truth that we speak causes anyone grief, which we hope it does, it also causes people to see the hypocrisy that they are living in.  If people see that their leaders are hypocrites that frees them up to make more responsible decisions regarding their own futures.  We implore the ntcc leadership to continue pushing them away and to "Let them go".

Your Legacy

Not sure who the original author is, but:
It's what you scatter that matters
Shared by Diana Taylor on Friday, June 10, 2011 at 8:24am

IT'S WHAT YOU SCATTER

I was at the corner grocery store buying some early potatoes... I noticed a small boy, delicate of bone and feature, ragged but clean, hungrily apprising a basket of freshly picked green peas.

I paid for my potatoes but was also drawn to the display of fresh green peas. I am a pushover for creamed peas and new potatoes.

Pondering the peas, I couldn't help overhearing the conversation between Mr. Miller (the store owner) and the ragged boy next to me.

'Hello Barry, how are you today?'

'H'lo, Mr. Mill er. Fine, thank ya. Jus' admirin' them peas. They sure look good.'

'They are good, Barry. How's your Ma?'

'Fine. Gittin' stronger all a' time.'

'Good. Anything I can help you with?'

'No, Sir. Jus' admirin' them peas.'

'Would you like to take some home?' asked Mr. Miller.

'No, Sir. Got nuthin' to pay for 'em with.'

'Well, what have you to trade me for some of those peas?'

'All I got's my prize marble here.'

'Is that right? Let me see it', said Miller.

'Here 'tis. She's a dandy.'

'I can see that. Hmm mmm, only thing is this one is blue and I sort of go for red. Do you have a red one like this at home?' the store owner asked.

'Not zackley but almost.'

'Tell you what. Take this sack of peas home with you and next trip this way l et me look at that red marble'. Mr. Mill er told the boy.

'Sure will . Thanks Mr. Miller.'

Mrs. Miller, who had been standing nearby, came over to help me.

With a smile she said, 'There are two other boys like him in our community, all three are in very poor circumstances. Jim just loves to bargain with them for peas, apples, tomatoes, or whatever.

When they come back with their red marbles, and they always do, he decides he doesn't like red after all and he sends them home with a bag of produce for a green marble or an orange one, when they come on their next trip to the store.'

I left the store smiling to myself, impressed with this man. A short time later I moved to Colorado , but I never forgot the story of this man, the boys, and their bartering for marbles.

Several years went by, each more rapid than the previous one. Just recently I had occasion to visit some old friends in that Idaho community and while I was there l earned that Mr. Mill er had died. They were having his visitation that evening and knowing my friends wanted to go, I agreed to accompany them. Upon arrival at the mortuary we fell into line to meet the relatives of the deceased and to offer whatever words of comfort we could.

Ahead of us in line were three young men. One was in an army uniform and the other two wore nice haircuts, dark suits and white shirts...all very professional looking. They approached Mrs. Miller, standing composed and smiling by her husband's casket.

Each of the young men hugged her, kissed her on the cheek, spoke briefly with her and moved on to the casket. Her misty light blue eyes followed them as, one by one; each young man stopped briefly and placed his own warm hand over the cold pale hand in the casket. Each left the mortuary awkwardly, wiping his eyes..

Our turn came to meet Mrs. Miller. I told her who I was and reminded her of the story from those many years ago and what she had told me about her husband's bartering for marbles. With her eyes glistening, she took my hand and led me to the casket.

'Those three young men who just left were the boys I told you about.

They just told me how they appreciated the things Jim 'traded' them. Now, at l ast, when Jim could not change his mind about color or size....they came to pay their debt.'

'We've never had a great deal of the wealth of this world,' she confided, 'but right now, Jim would consider himself the richest man in Idaho .'

With loving gentleness she lifted the lifeless fingers of her deceased husband. Resting underneath were three exquisitely shined red marbles.

The Moral :

We will not be remembered by our words, but by our kind deeds. Life is not measured by the breaths we take, but by the moments that take our breath.

Today I wish you a day of ordinary miracles ~

A fresh pot of coffee you didn't make yourself...

An unexpected phone call from an old friend.... Green stop lights on your way to work....

The fastest line at the grocery store....

A good sing-a long song on the radio...

Your keys found right where you left them.

Send this to the people you'll never forget. I just did...

If you don't send it to anyone, it means you are in way too much of a hurry to even notice the ordinary miracles when they occur.

IT'S NOT WHAT YOU GATHER, BUT WHAT YOU SCATTER THAT TELLS WHAT KIND OF LIFE YOU HAVE LIVED!

If you don't like the X-ers remember:  Go look in a mirror.  You made us.

What will people lay on you when you close your eyes in death?

What will they say to your widow about what you gave them?

Comments will not be allowed on this post. 

Nichelle Tieman's Adultery and Lying Revisited: NOT_Overseer Material

In a previous post titled "The Celibacy Policy" or {Forbidding to Marry, Part Two of Don's Story}, Don shared how Nichelle Tieman repeatedly tried to seduce him to have sex with her, rubbing her breasts and rear end up against him, and coming to Don's room when David Tieman, Sr. was at work, trying to convince Don to "lay with" her.  We also shared how Don reported that years of forced celibacy in the ntcc, brought on by ntcc pastors interfering and  telling women not to talk to Don and telling Don not to talk to women, helped Don give in to this temptation.  Though Nichelle and Don did not have intercourse, there was inappropriate touching going on.  


As Don shared in another thread titled "Homosexual 'Pastors' in the ntcc: Names Included"  {Part Three of Don's Story}, he had already been sexually abused by three homosexual ntcc pastors.  This abuse of authority, coupled with long years of forced celibacy made Nichelle Tieman's forward advances seem appealing at first.  In Don's words:  "At first I welcomed these advances because they made me feel like a man is supposed to feel and that is masculine."  Of course the Holy Ghost continued to convict him; and Don repented of this sin.  After praying for forgiveness, Don called Pop Gaylord and told him of his involvement with Nichelle Tieman, who had also told Don that she loved another brother, Rev. Rice, and if anything happened to her husband, David Tieman Sr., Rice was the one she would marry.  Pop Gaylord called davis and r w got on a plane to visit Colorado Springs.  


From the moment davis got off the plane at the airport, (Ange was there with the Tiemans to pick up rdub at the airport) until the day he left, r w 's demeanor was mean, gruff, condescending and condemning.  davis screamed out the 'message' "What's in YOUR books?", which really was a message for r w davis that he pitchforked onto everyone else without applying it to his own adulterous self.  Hmmn.  


Afterwards, in the kitchen, Nichelle Tieman lied and told r w davis that Ange wanted to go to bible school.  If you know anything about ntcc, you know what a nail in the relationship-coffin that was.  Don was not going to bible school.  So in ntcc this made Ange off-limits to Don.  Not only that; but Don had wanted to go to bible school and unforgiving - but - guilty - himself -  davis had not "allowed it" even though Pop Gaylord gave Don a good recommendation to go. (See "Letters From The Past", {Part One}  for proof of Pop Gaylord's good recommendation, in Mom Gaylord's own handwriting.)  Talk about a twisted diabolical scheme to keep Don living a forced life of celibacy!  Three different ntcc pastors told him or a woman he was talking to they should not be talking!  Then this lie by nichelle tieman, the adulteress!  Forcing the ntcc rule-induced separation of Don and Ange; just because nichelle lied; and davis did not "allow" Don to go to the bible school.  Why?  


Even davis knew that Don is a good brother.  In davis' own words to Don:  "I [rw] never saw the devil fight anyone as hard as he fights you [Don]".  It was also at this time that davis told Don:  "I know what happened with you [Don] and [hummel and  rudy, and the rejected advances from broadnax the homosexual pastors] was NOT MUTUAL [Don did not want homosexuality.]  But, [davis continued] I think THIS [Don's involvement with nichelle tieman] WAS MUTUAL."  Ya think?  Seven years of not even being able to talk to a woman does wear down a brother who does not have the 'gift' of celibacy!  Of course he's going to be tempted even if it was Nichelle Tieman doing the tempting.  


Why did  Nichelle approach a single brother to meet her sexual needs?  At a conference in Missouri Nichelle was telling a room full of women how bad her husband David Tieman Sr. was in bed.  She was doing it in her usual scornful manner of speaking.  If you know Nichelle, you know what we are talking about:  How she makes fun of people constantly, including her own biological brother....  In that room were church members, bible school students, and ministers' wives.  Let them come on here and say that these things we share are true; because they were there and saw and heard it too.  In fact, this incident was the reason why davis, the very next day, stopped "letting" people fellowship in the rooms at the campground!  Additionally, many people have shared how horrible the Tiemans were as overseers because of their rude, sanctimonious, holier-than-thou behavior.

That brings us to the heart of the matter. The Tiemans (Nichelle and David Sr.) can not even keep their own house in order. They should NEVER be set up as Overseers to tell others how to do ANYTHING.


To date Nichelle has never apologized to Don or Ange for her adultery and lying. This indicates her lack of repentance (impenitent).   The bible says to rebuke openly before all, that others may fear. It says to not suffer a brother to sin.  People may not like the truth; but eXposing the truth is the only way to affect repentance. The ntcc would rather lift up Nichelle and David Sr. in pride and could care less that they are impenitent. As one anonymous poster shared on Jeff Collin's blog:

Anonymous said...
Jeff, then why is the woman that this man mentioned by name one of the leaders in ntcc?
I don't know but they are going to churches and preaching around and are seen as leaders for the ntcc, if I'm not mistaken her husband is in the board of ntcc, while real men and women like the John and Rebecca Rodrigues in the phillipines are just put on the back burner so to speak.
Is that what you have to do to belong to the board? Wow and wow!!!

February 09, 2011 3:36 PM

These things ought not to be so.  Nichelle should repent of her adultery and lying; David Sr. should repent of his lack of meeting his wife's sexual needs. Or else David Tieman Sr. should step down from the board of the ntcc and relinquish his Overseer status.  They really are not qualified.  Just ask those who have had to endure the Tiemans coming to town on their broom  in their recreational vehicle.
  

NOT nichelle tieman; but it does
evoke memories of her actions...

The ntcc wants to disregard the bible commandment concerning Overseers found in 1 Tim 3:15: 

For if a man know not how to rule his own house, 

how shall he take care of the church of God?

That's what the bible says, people.  That is what God expects.  So how about it ntcc?  Perhaps the real reason the Tiemans have been allowed to advance is because they are not the only ones with unrepented-of sins.  Perhaps the very top 'leaders' of the ntcc have impenitent hearts and seek others who have skeletons in the closet to share the board room (or bedroom) with them.  Something to think about.  Perhaps the top ntcc leaders themselves do not know how to rule their own houses and as such should not take care of the church of God!


Update:  From the comments section on this post:

Anonymous said...

Somebody was telling some years back that when the tiemans were in denver pastoring a church, they used to invite the members of thier church to come to their house and enjoy the spa that ms. tieman had found for free in the newspaper. They used to have a blast when the tiemans were pastoring there.
NOw with this info about how ms. tieman behaved with don, it is so telling what were the intentions of nichelle bringing their members to enjoy their "blessing" (spa)

Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:13:00 PM

1 NCO 2 Another said...

Yeah, it's as obvious as when nichelle purposely pushed Don into the water from the paddle boat that they were in on a small pond at a park near the ntcc servicemen's home in Colorado Springs (Ft. Carson) on Circle. Drive.

nichelle wanted to flirt and get a good look at Don in his wet clingy clothes. I was there and saw the whole thing. nichelle's oblivious husband david tieman sr. was there too and saw the whole thing. I could not believe my eyes! I could see very plainly that she was flirting with / coming on to Don. Is david tieman sr. that dumb or did he just not care who nichelle was throwing herself at? It really was freaky.

Of course now we all know the rest of the story with Don.

And now thanks to your post we see that this was a pattern of bad behavior exhibited by nichelle tieman. A spa? Seriously? In a HOLINESS preacher's house?

I guess the Lord really does "use that jacuzzi in mysterious ways".

Here's a link to a video that says it all:

{Click here} The Lawd Uses That Jacuzzi (SPA) In Mysterious Ways

Shaking my head. You know, I'm starting to wonder if david tieman sr. is a little gay himself? I mean; come on? How many times does your wife have to throw herself at other men to try and get your attention? Are you gay, dave? Or is nichelle some kind of nymphomaniac that you just can't keep up with her? Or do you both just need some good old fashioned counseling from a real counselor, not davis the blabber mouth who WILL air your private business from the pulpit if it suits him; (as he has boasted that he does do that.... And we've all seen and heard it too!)

I just don't get it; why do you want to continue in sin? Lying to yourselves about who you are and what you want. Why not just go out and be REAL bad girls or bad boys and quit pretending?

Or better still, why not go to the cross and really get a touch of salvation and healing from Jesus Christ the Merciful?

Are you really that proud that you'd rather go to hell for halfway-living in sin?

You don't have to. Repentance is one prayer away. Forgiveness is yours for the asking.

(Don and) Ange

Wednesday, September 21, 2011 4:54:00 PM

Related Stories:


To See All Related Stories In Mobile View, click this label "Don's Story"


Or, to view each part alone:


1)  Why I Left The ntcc


2)  The Celibacy Policy


3)  Homosexual Pastors

Dysfunctional Church Equals Cult

While reading Jeff's new post I began to post a comment and the comment took on a life of it's own and we thought we would make a new thread out of it instead.  So here it is:


The ntcc used to be really slick about things but now there are so many gaps and so many holes.  It's hard to hide a Woolly Mammoth.  They can no longer walk cool, but they have to shuffle along like they are on heavy doses of tranquilizers.  The news is out, the gig is up, they finally found you. I think it's beyond damage control at this point.  Sometimes you have to cut your losses, sell your real-estate and start paying taxes like the rest of us.

I got a really good idea.  Maybe the ntcc can hire a new overseer.  Get one from the outside, maybe someone who has experience running a successful, ethical spiritual church organization.  It might be hard to find, but than again anything would be an improvement.  Change the bible school into an accredited bible school and stop pretending to be holy.  Instead of making women wear dresses, try a different approach.  Try allowing women to have opinions and let them enjoy their salvation a little bit.  Instead of insisting that men don't have facial hair, try allowing them to talk to members of the opposite sex without permission.  Maybe both the man and the woman have enough God to make the right choices in their lives without "apostolic" interference.

It happens all the time outside of the ntcc.  In fact I would venture to say that men and women in normal churches have less of a propensity to commit adultery than those in the ntcc.

They need to think outside of the box.  Fill up their motor homes with Church members and take them to a football or baseball game.  Have a tailgate party at the stadium, no beer of course.  Allow people to do normal things and enjoy there lives for a change and see if their new found freedom doesn't bring them closer to God than they are now.  Ntcc'rs never get to stay on the mountaintops, they spend most of their time in the valleys fighting principalities and powers and such.  I will say that the average ntcc'r has a much tougher adversary than a normal Christian.  The ntcc'r must live a victorious life while making sure not to break any man made rules, violate any unbiblical ntcc policies all while obeying double standards and turning a blind eye to what's going on all around them, plus they have to fight the devil at the same time.

It's not going to stand the test of time because it was not built on the right cornerstone.  It was not built with the right motives or intentions.

I know it sounds like I am callous, but I'm trying to get ntcc'rs to snap out of their mind numbed state and see that there is life and Christianity outside the ntcc, and it's much better.  We truly care about those that are unknowingly giving large chunks of their lives and finances to a group that is dysfunctional and will not be there for you when everything falls apart in your life.  We hope that you take a close look at what's going on around you.  They will tell you not to ask questions about people because they don't want you to know who is leaving.  Is that normal?  Is it a sin to ask, what happened to Rev. Barnes, or what happened to Rev. Dorsie, or anyone for that matter.  If the answer to those questions is going to affect your salvation in a negative way than you must ask yourself, is what I have real?  I wish there was some kind of eye-salve that you could give to people to help them see they are in a cult.

The Expendables. The Throw-Aways. The Disposables. The Rejected. The Outcasts.

Graduation:
NTCS Commencement exercises will be held 10 June 2011 at the Main Chapel on the Graham, WA Campus at 7:30 pm.


As another ntcs graduation approaches, we've been giving some thought to some of the titles ntcc could give the new graduates:

All these titles come from real-life experiences of previous ntcc bible school graduates.  They too met the challenges of ministry with a twinkle in their eyes, prayer, faith, blood, sweat, and tears...  They followed the rules made by r w davis, no matter how often he reversed himself and changed them.. Knock on doors, don't knock on doors.  Have church in your house.  Don't have  church in your house.  Having a married woman work on a job is "prostituting" that woman.  You missionaries overseas should have your wife work so you can pay all the church bills and pay to fly to three conferences yearly - all on your dime, while sending us the tithe on your income, your wife's income, and the church tithe.  yada yada yada,,,

Yes, those graduates of years gone by obeyed and prayed and stayed and paid....  But in the end, it was never good enough for ol' rodger w. davis or the ntcc.  So year after year after year he would blast them during conferences.  And heaven help them if they ever needed  his help.  Instead of help, they would get berated; their stories would be broadcast from the pulpit in a way to send the message,

DON'T EVEN ASK FOR HELP!

And so, by experience, those graduates of years gone by would learn that the borg of ntcc considered the workers to be expendable, throw-aways, disposable, rejected, outcasts.  One by one ntcc would wear them down, use them up, and throw them away.  They would go in and clean up some of ntcc's dirtiest messes and as a reward the ntcc would discard them like a used diaper wipe.

So as we approach another ntcs graduation day, consider what title will be given to you, current graduates:

Will You be Expendable?
Will You be Throw-Aways?
Will You be Disposables?
Will You be Rejected?
Will You be Outcasts?
Will You be Jezebels?
Will You be Absaloms?

It is something to carefully consider.  Just look at the blogs and the many testimonies of people who labored ten, twenty, thirty plus years for ntcc, only to find themselves kicked to the curb for no good reason.  Then ask yourself:  How long will you work for ntcc for no reward only to find yourself ten, twenty, thirty years older with nothing to show for it, no job skills, an unaccredited minister's license, a worthless degree, a broken family, a bankrupt financial situation, yada yada yada...  Will you learn the hard way?  Or will you consider what we say and cut your losses before it is too late for you, your family, your children???  The choice is yours.  You can learn from others.  Or you can learn the hard way.  Choose wisely; or end up like this:

A 2009 ntcc 'gangsta' graduate 'throws his set in the air'

 Remember:  The Ostrich Buries Its Head In The Sand
Thus Exposing Its "Fourth Point Of Contact" 

Don't let others do your thinking for you; or you could end-up with your rear-end hanging out in the breeze!

Vote Anonymously On This Post By Clicking On The Lettered Boxes Below:

A) Sounds Like A True Description Of ntcc.

B) ntcc Sounds Like A Cult.

C) I Read This Post.

D) ntcc damaged / destroyed my family

E) ntcc damaged / destroyed my finances

F) I'm afraid to get caught commenting on this blog.

G) Glad To Be Out of ntcc

H) ntcc damaged / destoryed my faith in God

I) I'm Thinking Of Leaving ntcc

J) I wish I had never joined ntcc 

**You Can Choose Multiple Answers**

Xer Blog Page Links

Here's a summary of our blog pages' link addresses.

This article is to enable people using the flipcard view to navigate to blog pages not visible in that viewing format:

Home:  http://ntccxerblog.blogspot.com/

ntcc News:  http://ntccxerblog.blogspot.com/p/newspaper-articles-on-ntcc.html

Worship Videos:  http://ntccxerblog.blogspot.com/p/worship-videos.html

In Memoriam:  http://ntccxerblog.blogspot.com/p/in-memoriam-ejb.html

Cult Info:  http://ntccxerblog.blogspot.com/p/cult-info.html

Travel:  http://ntccxerblog.blogspot.com/p/travel.html

Ad Hoc:  http://ntccxerblog.blogspot.com/p/ad-hoc.html

Blessed Songs:  http://ntccxerblog.blogspot.com/p/secular-songs-that-have-been-blessing.html

Don's Story:  http://ntccxerblog.blogspot.com/p/dons-story_20.html