This is a little excerpt from Ashmore's friend page on Facebook called James Ashmore's commentary which is only visible to invited guests. For someone who spent the better part of 40 years in this sleezy organization practicing the same principles he sure did execute an abrupt about face and now all of the sudden, he has seen the light. I think not. He is basically blasting the ntcc for the same things we have been blasting them for the same things that we have been blogging about for years. In fact it looks like he got the majority of his talking points straight off of our blog, or Chiefs blog, because he also has been blogging about this stuff for years. It's funny how we were made out by many in the ntcc and some in the X-er communities to be devils and the nastiest of bloggers and here we find the minions flocking to Ashmore with their itching ears ready and willing to hear him say the exact same things that we have been saying. They can't wait to jump on his band wagon so they can replace the ntcc with another cult. Do you really need to be followers of one of the architects of the ntcc abuse? Ashmore is a long time abuser of souls and has been doing the exact same things that he now preaches against.
If you want to become thoroughly mixed up in your mind, heart and soul than by all means, jump on board the Ashmore train. Don't be ignorant of the same devices that destroyed you in the ntcc. If you leave the ntcc and get mixed up with Ashmore you will be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. The only reason this guy left the ntcc was because Davis died and the only leverage Kekel has over Ashmore is what Kekel himself has been guilty of and all of that information can be found on this blog. Read Julie's stories. Read Ken's story. Read Lisa's stories. Read Moreno's story. Ashmore is a first class abusive narcissist with a history of destroying people who got in his way and who now has no place in the ntcc and has decided to get him a bigger piece of the pie. In common vernacular, Ashmore wants your money. He already knows how to build a cult.
Comment # 1:
Ashmore says: We feel great sorrow for those who are still blinded by their sinister methods and for all the church members who still suffer mental and spiritual abuse under the KING KONG type ministries behind some of their pulpits.
How much sorrow did Ashmore feel when he was dispatched by Davis to call Lisa a whore after she was raped and abandoned to hide Davis's sins? How much sorrow did Ashmore feel when he rebuked Moreno for turning in Kinson? Moreno did the right thing and reported Kinson for retrieving his wallet from a whore house in Japan. Moreno was spiritually assassinated by Ashmore and later took the lives of his wife and two children (The unborn counts), before allegedly killing himself. How much sorrow did Ashmore feel when he allegedly raped Julie? How much sorrow did Ashmore feel when he told Brother Ken, I wish you would just leave. King Kong type ministers? Really? The pot calling the kettle black.
comment # 2:
We are hearing reports from many who have gone through hell on earth under the manipulative and controlling leaders they once trusted, only to find out later what they really were!
comment # 3:
Spouses have been recycled under the sinister notion that one should leave and divorce their spouse if said spouse LEAVES the GROUP (even if they are still serving God!)
UPDATE:
This comment came in from one man who shares that Ashmore allegedly told the man's wife to divorce him; then Ashmore allegedly targeted the man's children, telling them that man "wasn't their dad, just a deadbeat that wanted them kept from God." That's a powerful accusation to say to somebody's children. Ashmore might be guilty of slander. Brandon may want to look into that with a lawyer. It sounds like defamation of character, slander, and spiritual abuse. Don't worry about going to law, brother against brother. Brothers don't attack you from the pulpit, call little girls whores, try to pit your kids against you, or tell your wife to divorce you or any of the other things that people testify that Ashmore has done. Can you people now see Ashmore's hypocrisy? By condemning the ntcc, without first repenting for doing the exact same things, Ashmore is actually condemning himself with these things he has written on his secret/members only commentary page on Facebook. Wake up folks.
Brandon, we are sorry for what you went through.
Anon Brandon said,
"My ex wife was told by Ashmore God wanted her to divorce me and if she didn't God would not bless nor would our kids have an opportunity of salvation. She believed when he said God spoke to him. (I wouldn't go to pastor a certain church Davis said to go)
Visitation was difficult with all the moving they did with the new husband Ashmore set her up with per the instruction of God so he said. I had to shell out a lot of money to go see my kids but I loved my kids so I was willing to do it. Ashmore even told my kids I wasn't their dad just a deadbeat that wanted them kept from God. I paid all child support payments. I tried to be the best dad I could even tried to respect the dress code when the kids where with me."
Brandon, again, we are sorry for both your sake, and the sake of your family to have been broken up, apparently, by spiritual abuse. And, allegedly, all by Ashmore; who now condemns the ntcc for doing the very same things he has done.
comment # 4:
The Day of wrath awaits these "blind leaders of the blind" and may all whose eyes are opened flee this Whore while there is still time!
Now Ashmore is calling them "this Whore" and warning people to flee. When did the ntcc all of the sudden take the Catholic Church's place and become the great whore of Revelation? Chief first made that assertion years ago because the Catholics and the ntcc are pretty much doing the same things. We also have made this comparison. I guess since the great Ashmore, Bashmore, Cashmore left, the ntcc all of the sudden is now a whore. I would say that they have always been a whore in the same sense that Jesus spake of in Revelation. Perhaps Jesus was talking about all of the religious hypocrites and not just the ones in the Catholic church. Ashmore also called Lisa and Lori whores when he was dispatched by Davis to cover up his sin. Ashmore is one of the biggest hypocrites you will ever find.
While we do encourage people to set themselves free from the abuser found in the ntcc, we would not recommend following one of the ntcc's chief architects and enforcers of those abusive ways, James Ross Ashmore.
Jesus said "Follow me." Christ alone has paid the price for our salvation.
Jesus said "Follow me." Christ alone has paid the price for our salvation.
J Train by tobyMac featuring Kirk Franklin on YouTube
Don't make the mistake of jumping onto Ashmore's train. There is Only One Good Conductor; His name is Jesus. He is the One we need to follow. Click the comment name "J Line" or copy and paste the following
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/-R2Or1bVLE0
It's a fun song by tobyMac featuring Kirk Franklin
DeleteDon and Ange reading Ashy's words really p***ed me off! How many recycled weddings did he perform? Why did it take him 40 years to take a half-***ed stand?
ReplyDeleteHere is the deal DnA. Many people thought Denis was the next great hope when he left the NTCC and Denis started his own organization. The horror story's which came from HOP are countless. Denis may be (if it's even possible) worse than the NTCC. In fact if it could be measured, I'm convinced Denis is worse than the NTCC.
ReplyDeleteWhat people need to do, is take their time before they jump on the said of Ashmore. One thing (in my opinion) we shouldn't forget; whether Ashmore is just another con artist or not, what he's saying about the NTCC is right. Of course we understand that he's just the pot calling the kettle black but that fact in itself, doesn't make his statements wrong as you well know.
If the truth be known, there will always be money grubbing churches with or without Ashmore's involvement. He's just a very small piece of the pie. I'm happy that Ashmore is throwing the NTCC leaders under the bus whether he's cut from the same cloth or not. I'll never go to Ashmore's church or even consider Ashmore a credible Christian leader but if his statements result in hardship for the NTCC, then for me, I'm down for it whether Ashmore is still a crook or not, (which for the record, I'm convinced he is).
My personal grief is with the (current) NTCC, so if Ashmore can be effective at persuading people to leave the NTCC, I'm all for it. If someone was trying to abuse a little girl and a crook saved her, crook or not, I'd be glad that he did.
Ward said...
ReplyDeleteWhy did it take him 40 years to take a half-***ed stand?
Chief said...
Because with Davis being gone, he finally gave up hope on ever having any real portion of the money train or any real power in the NTCC. None of us knows what went on behind close doors, but I'd bet toward the end, that Ashmore and Kekel weren't best of friends and Kekel essentially ran him off after the death of Davis. Make no mistake, Davis' death certainly had something to do with Ashmore's departure.
With all the NTCC coverups that Ashmore was involved with, there is no telling what Davis was breaking him off either in position / job security within the organization or straight monetarily. For the record, there is no way I would know, but what I do know is that it's been reported that Davis has paid people off to keep their mouths shut about his dirty deeds. That's a fact, so with Davis gone, I'll guarantee the support for Ashmore went right along with him in one way or another. I'm very confident of that.
About 7 years ago, I called Kekel and Kekel told me on the phone that he didn't like or support Denis but Davis did support Denis, and M. Reed told me the same thing. I'll bet the farm that the same sentiments existed with Ashmore. So Davis dies and support for Ashmore died right along with him no doubt!!! NO DOUBT!!!
Why else would Ashmore now be so against the NTCC??? I'll tell you why. Because now it's become personal with Ashmore and I'll guarentee that Kekel, with the support of Olson, has everything to do with it. Olson "WILL" support Kekel because that's where Olson's $$$ support comes from and you better believe it.
Ashmore left many long acquaintances in the NTCC, so naturally he going to highligh the NTCC's known crooked, non biblical, cheating ways, so that Ashmore can justify his own departure from the NTCC. I understand that.
Just understand that if you leave the NTCC to go with Ashmore, you are jumping right out of the pot and into the kettle.
By the way, this is a good article DnA. I like it that's it's short and to the point. Easy to read.
ReplyDeleteANON MIKE
ReplyDeleteIt's almost comical the words he's using. It's like he's trying to get on your good side.
I wonder... Might he have repented? What kind of church is he running now?
I will keep trying to encourage Chief and D/A to keep up the pressure no matter who is blogging or not. Chief has had massive influxes of new people on his site based on his counter.
Something is happening and you guys are responsible.
That's great he's criticizing the whore, but until he comes clean and confesses to having been a chief pimp of said whore for decades, his words are empty. He knows where all the bodies are buried, and until he starts singing, there is no credibility. I suppose he is implicated in the same criminal activities they've committed, so it's no wonder he's reluctant to go into too much detail about them.
ReplyDeleteOne of the things that disturbed me most after I left was knowing that I had allowed myself to be manipulated into treating others badly (although nothing like what these "leaders" dish out). I don't have any problem confessing that I was wrong for so doing. Apparently he does.
When I left the borg, I had unpaid missions pledges--$5 a month each for four years to Germany and to Panama. Trying to obey my conscience, I continued to pay on these pledges, and then I learned that the Panama work had been closed down (when my wife ran into the former missionaries in the supermarket). So I wrote a letter to RW chastising him for taking money under false pretenses. He called me and told me that the payments were being "escrowed" until they reopened the work, so I (stupidly) continued to pay. Some time later, I got an insulting note from JR. He addressed me as "Mr. Johanson," and informed me that I hadn't designated where a payment was to go. This is the same guy who was my former pastor and sucked me into the whore, and it was before FACTnet and all that, so I hadn't denounced them in any way--for crying out loud, I was STILL PAYING PLEDGES as an act of good faith on my part. But he had already excommunicated me in his mind and couldn't bring himself to view me as anything other than just another "sinner." Now he wants us all to think that he's filled with the utmost rectitude and is shocked and appalled at the vile actions of the whore, even though he was a willing participant and for years unquestioningly went along with everything his overlord did.
So step up, Jim, and fill us in on what really went on in those secret board meetings. Inquiring minds want to know. Redeem yourself and show us that you've really changed and aren't just trying to start a rival cult.
Good job vic....
DeleteMy ex wife was told by Ashmore God wanted her to divorce me and if she didn't God would not bless nor would our kids have an opportunity of salvation. She believed when he said God spoke to him. (I wouldn't go to pastor a certain church Davis said to go)
ReplyDeleteVisitation was difficult with all the moving they did with the new husband Ashmore set her up with per the instruction of God so he said. I had to shell out a lot of money to go see my kids but I loved my kids so I was willing to do it. Ashmore even told my kids I wasn't their dad just a deadbeat that wanted them kept from God. I paid all child support payments. I tried to be the best dad I could even tried to respect the dress code when the kids where with me.
Wow, good stuff being posted. Seems like a good old fashion blog revival going on. I wish some of the other guys and gals would show up. There were plenty of people doing this before I ever got involved. I used to really like FACTNet. It was non-stop about 7-8 years ago. When they changed the format and required a paid subscription, that was the end of that.
ReplyDeleteIt may sound like I am but I'm not patronizing you Vic, but for those of you who don't know, Vic was one of the original people who started "effectively" exposing the NTCC. I've long respected Vic's stance and approach to exposing this church. He was my battle buddy back when I started posting on FACTNet. He'd been there for a while already, (maybe a couple years I guess). Anyway, Vic helped me see and understand the NTCC a whole lot more clearly and quite rapidly I might add. I called Vic on the phone on more than one occasion to get a better understanding of the extent of the NTCC leaderhip's dastardly deeds. I genuinely appreciate your input over the last, nearly decade Vic.
JC AKA Chief
Oh, by the way Vic,
ReplyDeleteWe all know that Ashmore is only trying to start as you put it a, "rival cult". When I say "we all" I mean those of us who've really left the NTCC in both mind and spirit. In my firm opinion, those elect to leave the NTCC and follow Ashmore, haven't left the NTCC at all. I just like to see the NTCC get broke in two, and I'm sure Ashmore's departure is having some effect in that regard.
I hope Jim takes half the church with him and after, I hope his followers wake up and leave him also. Of course HOP (or whatever they've named it now) is proof that plenty of people will stick with Ashmore. That's the nature of the modern day church business. It's more important to people to be a part of something than first taking the time to figure out what they are trying to be a part of.
Chief
Wow Brandon, that's really sad. Very sad. You ought to call Ashmore to see if he recalls pulling that mess. The horror stories never end with the NTCC. Brandon's story was particularity troubling.
ReplyDeleteChief
The problem with Ashmore, Bashmore, Cashmore, Trashmore is that he is a narcissist and narcissists don't admit they are wrong. He is more than welcome to admit it here on this blog and if it's sincere and heartfelt, if he owns up to some of the many spiritual atrocities that he's been involved in. There are a lot of people that have been hurt way past the point of accepting an apology though. An apology isn't going to change what happened to the Moreno family. It isn't going to change the last 30 years of 'hell on earth' that Lisa, Julie and Ken had to go through.
ReplyDeleteIt's amazing to me how someone on Ashmore's level can all the sudden start spewing out judgments against the ntcc as if they hadn't been a huge part of it for so long. The people on this blog to include myself, Chief, Vic and many others show remorse in our involvement in the ntcc and who we influenced along the way. I brought quite a few people to the ntcc throughout my years and some still remain. I wish I had known or that I could give back to them the years that were wasted. We don't see any remorse from Ashmore. Perhaps it's because it's not all about being right with God or helping people get back on track with God, but most likely it's about the same thing it was about when he was in the ntcc. TITHE AND OFFERINGS. Does Ashmore still collect tithes? Does he still consider it a sin not to pay tithe? Is he passing the offering plate around along with a guilt tripping plea for more funds? Is he living in a nice house out there in the San Diego area? Who paid for that house? Are his members prospering as he is, or is the Lion share going into Ashmore's bank account. It would be interesting to know.
The ntcc was very secretive about everything they did. Ashmore is also very secretive about what he does. What's wrong with a little transparency? How about making your church books public record like some churches do? If there is nothing to hide, than you shouldn't be afraid of the IRS or anyone knowing how much money you are raking in.
Chief said:
ReplyDelete" In my firm opinion, those elect to leave the NTCC and follow Ashmore, haven't left the NTCC at all."
DNA said:
This is what many ntcc'rs have been waiting for. I'm sure Ashmore will take a whole bunch of people with him. There are some that have enough confidence in themselves to break out on their own and be successful, but the majority of the ntcc'rs want someone to follow and someone to do their thinking for them. They don't want to have to expend the energy that's necessary to turn on their brains.
Ashmore is the perfect solution for someone that has been wanting out for a while. He has renounced holiness and appeals to those who still want be subjected to a cultish environment. My opinion is that Ashmore is a big time Chameleon and want's to look like the modern day Moses that is going to lead people out of the ntcc desert to the promise land.
There are people who have upbraided us for not listening to what Ashmore has to say. They have contacted me on facebook and said "Do you realize how much he's changed"? I explained to them that the Ashmores have their Facebook settings to allow only the people who want to see his junk to be on his friends list. I know for a fact that he is drawing some big time names and ntcc X-ers who were once notable ministers in the org. to his friends list. We received this from particular regurgitation of X-er beliefs from a source that we'll keep anonymous.
ReplyDeleteThe same ones that have told us that Ashmore is wonderful and he was just a lot like us and he was blinded for all those years and brainwashed like everyone else, are the same ones that used to attack us for saying the same things that Ashmore is saying now. Sorry, I don't have any patience for hypocrites and false teachers.
ANON MIKE
ReplyDeleteSo does anyone know other than his Church in SD CA who else has joined him? Are preachers leaving and going with him? Are their plans to start a bible school? This is one of the only places you can find solid info so I'm asking to see what he's trying to form.
Didn't hear anything about tithe, but sure, he still passes the plate:
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8Y5rnA87fN0Zn1jWaMIf0g
If you're jonesing for some more of "the preaching machine," here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCfPxzlGl2Jt9gCFDIRX_wCg
Try not to have any PTSD nightmares.
Ashmore has changed but he still loves his money. He likes being in charge and not having to answer to anyone.
ReplyDeleteRev Ashmore still passes the plate not for tithe but for every other reason he can dream up and he has a very nice house and car. He doesn't like people bring up the wrongs against that are on this blog and chief's blog but gladly speaks of other wrongs in NTCC and HOP by orhers. He ill of Lisa,Pam,and Julie.
ReplyDeleteChief said...
ReplyDeleteWow, good stuff being posted. Seems like a good old fashion blog revival going on.
Blogs not dead it's still alive! Blogs not dead it's still alive!
Blogs not dead it's still alive!
I can type with my hands!
I can run with my feet!
Almighty God has set me free!
Brandon,
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment. We felt it's really important for people to understand the depth of Ashmore's hypocrisy, so we incorporated your comment into the main blog post.
To us what you described constitutes spiritual abuse. You may literally have grounds to sue Ashmore for damages ($) that he caused to you by influencing your wife to divorce you based on statements like "God told me" and other comments that caused her to fear for your children's salvation based on whether or not she obeyed him. That's some serious stuff. You might want to look into that.
Ashmore was not able to keep his own house in order. His wife Helen's son abandoned his wife and ran off with another preacher's wife. It was a huge scandal that ntcc helped Ashmore bury. Then, Ashmore, for years, ignored his grandkids that came from the adulterous affair, while fawning over the one child that his wife's daughter had with her ntcc hubby (DiFrancesco).
This stuff is maddening if you think about it all at once. The ntcc is so convoluted, and Ashmore was a big part of that. His coming out now and trying to throw them under the bus is ludicrous. If he ever repents, there will be fruit to show for it. There will be lots of apologies and confessions of his involvement in other scandals. Until that happens, in our opinion, he, like a rat leaving a sinking ship, is still the same. He is still a rat. Any attempt to condemn the ntcc, in our opinion, is just his way of trying to get and keep their members' tithe dollars.
People, don't be so quick to give the right hand of fellowship to somebody just because they left ntcc. Be a fruit inspector.
ReplyDeleteLook at what happened with Denis and the HOP split. Can you honestly think this is any different?
So now Ashmore is bashing churches? Where are the cries of protest from the NTCC crowd.
ReplyDeleteAny of you ntcc pastors who are a little strapped for cash this month should withhold your payment to the ntcc and go ahead and buy some groceries and maybe a second suit so you have one to wear while the other one is at the cleaners.
ReplyDeleteWe're pretty sure kekel will be much more forgiving, now that indoctrinated ministers are on such short supply. The more of them that leave, the more "forgiveness" you who remain will receive...
Go ahead splurge. It's rumored that tanya kekel said, "Let them eat steak."
Phillip Kinson
ReplyDeleteMarch 18 at 10:37am ·
Please pray for us today, thank you. Serious meeting at 1:30 that involves the work of the Lord.
Hah--I bet old JR was a prime subject of the "serious meeting." No doubt they're wringing their hands over another Denis-style exodus of tithe payers, since Denis was a nobody compared to Ashmore.
I thought Denis was the second coming of Davis? If I was there till 2000 should I know of this guy?
ReplyDeleteI do agree that Ashmore was the right hand to the preachers. He was the guy they all talked about outside of Davis.
I wonder how difficult it is to keep this church together at this point in time. I think there are too many people and too much word of mouth for people within these org's to ignore.
Just from what I gather about Kekel, aside from money it's the power that he loves. Money might be great but controlling an organization is where the narcissism is at.
Just my 2 cents.
I've really enjoyed learning from you guys. It's helped me heal, vent, and see there is a future for me.
ReplyDeleteI'd love to see this to it's conclusion. Kekel and Tanya in prison along with all his henchman.
I had a friend join the 119 ministries cult a few weeks ago. This cult is part of what is called the Hebrew Roots movement. I tried to reason with him, and share scriptures with him. I realized that there was nothing I could say to change his mind and he was thoroughly convinced that he was doing the right thing.
ReplyDeleteNow there are folks (not just 1 or 2) that we have considered to be pillars in the fight against the ntcc that are joining themselves to Ashmore. There are folks that have done as much or more than we have on our blog to help people get out of that cult that are jumping on board with Ashmore. I'm afraid there is nothing we can say or do to change their minds. It's like people were just waiting for someone they could follow.
I have a really hard time throwing my support behind someone that has spent 3/4 or more of their lives conning people out of their money and forever damaging peoples lives. I would expect someone like this to have an ounce or two of remorse and that they would reach out to the people they hurt with an apology at the very least. Not just by getting up in front of a bunch of former ntcc members that have decided to follow you and giving an RWD apology, "If I offended anyone, please pray it through, your the one with the problem, not me". There are many people out there that we know of and pretty sure there are others that we don't know about who's lives have been sacrificed by Ashmore at the ntcc pulpit. People have been slandered, run off, beaten down, humiliated and embarrassed so that Ashmore could thrive and share in the wealth and greediness of the ntcc royalty.
I'm not saying any names and I'm not going to. They were once fighting the same fight that we are, and now that a big fish has landed on the shores of San Diego, X-preachers are flocking to him without doing their due diligence. We don't understand how that after what we all went through in the ntcc how someone can just throw caution into the wind and get in bed with someone like Ashmore.
We are glad that people are leaving the ntcc. If they all leave and move to San Diego, Graham would be a better place, but I'm not sure how it would benefit the people who want to follow the Ashmores. There was a time when I had a lot of respect for Ashmore. There was a time when he could have made a difference but he chose to align himself with the likes of Davis.
It all comes down to, who is really the whore? Or who is the bigger whore? Who is selling their religion at the lowest price? Whose more appealing? Right now it is the ntcc, but if they all leave to suckle with Ashmore and Denis, what has really been accomplished? When it's all said and done, Ashmore might end up with a bigger mansion than Kekel. Now, I'm all for seeing Olson and Kekel lose their power base but I feel for the people who get caught up in all of the Ashmore hype and have to pay the price when it's all said and done.
Vic Johanson said...
ReplyDeleteDidn't hear anything about tithe, but sure, he still passes the plate:
DNA said.....
Well he didn't record video of the money collection process during his service, so it's hard to say if he is pumping people for tithe or not. He has renounced ntcc holiness standards, but I doubt from looking at his church building that he is encouraging people not to give large amounts of money. I'm sure he's accumulated enough treasure from the ntcc tithe paying masses to live in a pretty nice house and drive a nice car. Of course there is nothing wrong with that if you work for it and achieve it honorably. I don't know exactly what he has or how much he's stashed away, but has he ever had a real job in the last 40 years or has the brain washed sucker footed the bill for his wealth? I wonder how many people had to drive around in oil puking junkers and live in roach infested flats to sustain Ashmores comfort level as an ntcc Executive.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous Anonymous said...
I thought Denis was the second coming of Davis? If I was there till 2000 should I know of this guy?
Denis is the second coming of Davis..The evil that this man has done has surpassed that of Davis..I know that maybe hard for some people to believe but this man is so evil there are just no words.
Yes be a fruit inspector because you will be duped again if you are not. I knew this at the split and tried to talk to my husband about things being the same or worse with Denis but for some reason I could not reason with him which normally I can but I did not find out later that Figueroa told him if he did not go with hopcc he would pray a curse on us and of course he did not tell me till years later he knows I would have left that day.. how can you call yourself a preacher/man of God and say your going to pray a curse on a fellow brother and sister? wow is all I can say... As far as Ashmore goes unless he repents publicly there's no sincerity!
It should be interesting to see how all of this plays out. Denis is running the more controlling cult and it must be getting old by now for those who are still hanging in there. The ntcc is luke warm. They aren't sure how quickly they want to plunge into worldliness but they are trending in that direction. Ashmore has the most appealing solution of all three cults. Not sure what Ashmore's cult is called. Does anyone know if there is a name for Ashmore's cult yet? Anyway, his cult has renounced ntcc holiness altogether, whatever that means, but he has replaced the Catholic Church with the ntcc as the great whore in Revelation, (MYSTERY BABYLON THE GREAT, MOTHER OF ALL HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH). Now he believes more in the institution of Marriage as opposed to when he was in the ntcc encouraging divorce. He also is opposed to people going through hell on earth at the hands of manipulative and controlling leaders who they once trusted only to find out later what they really were all about.
ReplyDeleteIf you can trust Ashmore, it sounds like he has a pretty good thing he's got going. He already has a nice church edifice that you can be sure he will need some help paying off, (or paying for even though it's already paid off), not sure exactly what his policy on fleecing the flock and real estate payments will include. His ministry also seems to revolve around the assumption that the 40 + years that he spent in the ntcc was sin free almost like Davis. He must have been the only preacher in the ntcc that wasn't money hungry or greedy, and none of the people that have testified about his abuse could have been telling the truth, because if they were, he surely would have tried to make those things right by now.
After what we all have been through it's hard for me to fathom someone leaving the ntcc and joining up with Ashmore. Just months ago, Ashmore was on the other side of the fence doing all the things he's preaching against now. So all of the sudden Davis dies and Ashmore gets a new revelation and decides to change? The only reason I can think of that a person would want to follow someone like Ashmore is that they just can't make it without following someone. The blind leading the blind.
"As far as Ashmore goes unless he repents publicly there's no sincerity!"
ReplyDeleteThat's what I'm saying--everyone is supposed to just forget that JR was RW's hatchet man for years on end, eagerly fulfilling his every wish and unquestioningly promoting anything he was told. I have a tape of him preaching where he related that someone outside of the church building who was mocking RW as he preached fell down and broke his arm--he said he believed that God did that. Like RW was Moses and God was going rain calamity on all who opposed him. He was expert at spreading fear and guilt. Bah.
I'm not holding any grudges, but there's no basis to trust him unless he's going to come clean. I haven't seen that yet. Not sure what all's going on on the Facebook page, but the excerpt seems to indicate he's mostly just throwing stones at the "whore" without admitting any kind of complicity on his part. I was well trained by the NTCC experience to be suspicious of "men of God" and their schemes. This looks like another one to me.
I feel like getting some popcorn and settling in for the war of the cults...should be plenty of entertainment. Sad that people are willing to jump from the frying pan into the fire, though. That part isn't fun to watch.
Isn't JR's outfit called "Jesus Revival Ministries"?
ReplyDeleteOkay, so now we have the ntcc, the Hop and JRM, The New Testament Christian Cult, The House of Pancakes and the James Ross Manipulators,(and Womanipulators). What a mess! The ntcc has spawned some seriously demented groups and people are jumping off of one shipwreck onto another.
ReplyDeleteI heard that tape of Ashmore, He also said that someone fell dead from mocking God. It's possible but the ntcc leadership have been mocking God more with there actions than others have with their voice. You would think that they would learn from their own words.
ReplyDeleteHOP= House of Pain!
ReplyDeletePeople continue to look for something to fill the void in their lives. Unfortunately, their will always be people who will prey on those people. Imagine what awaits those who mislead the weak. "If anyone causes one of these little ones--those who believe in me--to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
ReplyDeleteBy ashmore leaving ntcc, is he not making a statement, that he no longer believe that God is there? And if he believe that God is there, then why is he walking away from God. Also, since kekel, considers everyone who is not apart of ntcc as an enemy, does that not make ashmore his enemy? Just saying.
ReplyDeleteI would like to add a different opinion. Though I do see Don and Ange's point of Ashmore being in for so long and part of the problem and now he is out with no apology to those he hurt (that we know of). That being said, he is OUT, so why can't we be a little more understanding of the journey. It is different for all of us. Leaving is a huge step which in my book shows that God is shedding light on a persons path so why can't we step back from hurling stones and come down from the judges seat and lean a little more toward actually being like Jesus. As I read all these comments about Ashmore I was somewhat grieved as to how easy we forget the long journey out of NTCC. Being that we have been out for many years and have walked that genuine close walk with Christ and Him alone, should we not be the stronger ones in helping a brother who may be erring in his way? Don't misunderstand me, I do see the concern of Ashmores apparent lack of repentance but hurling stones at a professing brother who is really a babe in walking with Christ outside the constricting grip of NTCC cannot be the answer. The way his departure has been handled kinda reminds me of an NTCC type of reaction on our part. I would like to propose that we check our spirit to see of what spirit we are of at this moment in time. Sincerely, please, take this to the throne and see if it is of God. Bryan David Hill
ReplyDeleteBryan Hill said:
ReplyDelete"That being said, he is OUT, so why can't we be a little more understanding of the journey."
DNA said,
I understand your concern and respect your opinion, but Ashmore leaving the ntcc would be no different than Kekel leaving. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. We are trying to help people not make the same stupid decision that we made the first time. People are flocking to Ashmore as if he never had anything to do with the ntcc. People have itching ears and they want to follow someone. If we are right and people heed our warning than it might save people from making the same mistake twice. The first time we made this mistake it was a devastating waste of years of our lives. The people that are leaving the ntcc cult and jumping into the Ashmore cult have not learned their lesson from history and they are going to repeat it again.
Bryan Hill said:
ReplyDelete"why can't we step back from hurling stones and come down from the judges seat and lean a little more toward actually being like Jesus."
DNA said:
What have you done with the scriptures of Jesus calling the Pharisees a bunch of vipers and whited sepulchers? What have you done with the scripture of Jesus driving the money changers out of the temple after over turning their tables? Do you think that if Jesus were walking among us and he seen a Pharisee leave the Pharisees and become a Saducee, that he would have the same attitude as you? Ashmore was in this cult for 40 or more years and as soon as Davis dies, he jumps ship and starts his own cult which is raking in the bucks. We've already heard that he has a nice church, a nice house and a nice car, but what is he actually doing for the people that are flocking to him. Are Ashmores going to share the wealth? Where does it all end? How much money do you have to make off of people in the ministry before people wake up and say "Enough"?
Bryan Hill said:
ReplyDelete"should we not be the stronger ones in helping a brother who may be erring in his way?"
DNA said,
Is Ashmore really a brother? What has he done since he left the ntcc? There are people that expect you to consider them a brother and follow them as a minister, and then there are people who live by example and show others that they are a brother and a minister by definition. A minister is a servant of all. A true brother will love you for who you are and watch your back. It was never like that in the ntcc so why should you expect it from Ashmore just he was no longer part of the ntcc future plans of Kekel.
Bryan Hill said,
ReplyDelete"I do see the concern of Ashmores apparent lack of repentance but hurling stones at a professing brother who is really a babe in walking with Christ outside the constricting grip of NTCC cannot be the answer."
DNA said:
Really, a 'babe walking in Christ'? Hurling stones at a babe walking in Christ is not what we are doing here. Ashmore has left the ntcc and he has been hurling stones at the great whore ever since he left. Does a babe in Christ call their former church members and brothers the great whore? Many of those people are there because of his preaching. You can call Ashmore a lot of things, but please don't call him a Babe in Christ. In my opinion, if Ashmore wants to be considered a brother than he should have done the things that a brother would do after leaving the ntcc. He should make things right to all the people that he hurt with his ntcc ministry if they are still alive. He should be completely transparent, because he was not that way in the ntcc. He should right all the wrongs of the ntcc by publicly, (not on a secret page), admitting to all of the thievery he was involved with while in the ntcc and confessing his part in the great Whore's transgressions. If myself and others can be honest and own up to our part in this cult, why can't Ashmore? If he was a brother and a true minister, he'd be signing right now.
Hi Bryan. The journey from Ntcc is a difficult leap. Apologizing to people that were hurt by errant words is basic Christianity. Was Denis a also babe walking in Christ when he departed?
ReplyDeleteBryan Hill said:
ReplyDelete" The way his departure has been handled kinda reminds me of an NTCC type of reaction on our part. I would like to propose that we check our spirit to see of what spirit we are of at this moment in time. Sincerely, please, take this to the throne and see if it is of God."
Bryan David Hill
DNA said:
First of all, I appreciate the fact that you put your name on your comment, and I know where you are coming from. Many of the opposing views we get on this blog are from anonymous snipers who are afraid to take ownership of their opinions. We don't post stuff on this blog without carefully and prayerfully considering what we post. With this particular post we considered all of the people who could be hurt even worse a second time. You have to take an offensive posture when you deal with these people. They are experienced hucksters and they will take you for everything you got. All I can say is wake up and don't be a victim again.
NTCCers,
ReplyDeleteYou must ask yourself whether or not Ashmore is qualified for ministry per 1 Timothy 3. Who am I kidding? You didn't ask that question regarding your current leadership, and I shouldn't expect you to ask that question regarding Ashmore.
DnA wrote...
ReplyDeleteHe should right all the wrongs of the ntcc by publicly, (not on a secret page), admitting to all of the thievery he was involved with while in the ntcc and confessing his part in the great Whore's transgressions.
Chief said...
I agree with "almost" everything you've written but the part I've pasted and specifically the mention of quote, "thievery". Follow me DnA on this one while I elaborate just to insure that there is no misunderstanding. I'm convinced that open dialogue is good. These blogs thrive when everyone is allowed to voice their opinion, obviously to include Bryan, and have their statements posted which certainly has been done in this case.
Having said that, let me first preface my point with my feelings about Ashmore. As you emphasized, he's certainly no "babe" in Christ. At a minimum, the guy knows the Bible inside and out and that's a complete understatement. The dude's ability to regurgitate scriptures verbatim is remarkable to say the least which shows much studying having been done on his part. So in that regard, he's certainly no babe. Without question, Ashmore was for decades a MAJOR part of the problem and ANYTHING but the solution. We also understand that the reason he left the NTCC was because of Davis' death and undoubtedly the desire to have complete control of all his churches money. It's also slightly possible, that he had a guilty conscience because of all the crap he's put people through over the years. Of course if that is the case, it's certainly way behind, (in priority) the first to reasons I mentioned for sure. Now to my point.
There is no way he should be expected to admit to "thievery" certainly in the literal sense. To do so would be willfully providing a legal Judge and Jury the means to convict (not only the NTCC leaders) but also himself of crimes and send him to prison. Whether you or I believe that the NTCC leadership should be in prison or not (which I do) is not my issue here. I don't expect Ashmore, Kekel, or Olson to provide self incrimination that would result in them being convicted and sent to prison. My point is, who would do that? I wouldn't. I would not incriminate myself and consequently spend the rest of my life locked behind bars because I decided fess up and ruin my own life in the process.
Sure DnA. You could say, "oh Chief, he ruined the lives of others", and no doubt he did, but to expect him to in turn ruin his own life is an unreasonable and unrealistic expectation the way I see it.
You guys know that my views concerning Ashmore ever so slightly very from that of yours and Vics. I actually don't expect the guy to come clean. It would be nice if he did, but again I think it's unreasonable to actually expect that to be forthcoming. The reality is, most people will not incriminate themselves and I don't have a problem with that but I understand why you and Vic would and I also don't see anything wrong with all of us having differing opinions and views.
I can't stand cults. I have less tolerance for cults then probably anything else in this world almost without exception. Religious people are almost always impossible to have an intelligent conversation with and I'm confident that Ashmore is still no exception. I don't however blame the guy for wanting freedom which he'd be at serious risk of losing if he admitted to thievery. Just my views and I also believe that Bryan and a lot of people who think like him are a great addition to this and any other blog. A one sided blog is boring and generally non-productive. Again, my views.
ANON MIKE
ReplyDeleteI was a bit surprised to find Ashmore Preaching as a pastor in San Diego months back. Not sure if this happened on Davis' watch or Kekel's but maybe that's what started it.
I like a lot of what Hill said in regards to "Hey, if he brings down NTCC then who cares".
I'm glad they're having to fight morning noon and night to keep every pastor, congregation, church, tithe money and the list goes on.
Crooks have to work extra hard when their scheme or racket is up.
Chief said:
ReplyDelete"I agree with "almost" everything you've written but the part I've pasted and specifically the mention of quote, "thievery".
DNA said:
It's all good Chief. Disagreement doesn't make anyone right or wrong. In this particular instance I was using the word thievery to describe my own definition of them extracting tithes and offerings out of people and then turning around and charging Usury to the people that they extract it from. I also agree that it is unreasonable to expect them to criminally implicate themselves in criminal actions that they were a part of.
However, if they are going to start another cult and carry on like their own stuff don't stink, there is a level of hypocrisy that can't go by unnoticed. If you are going to accuse the ntcc of the very things that you enabled them to do over the past 40 years, how can you expect your voice to be credible?
It would be very hard for someone like Ashmore to make things right after everything he's been involved in. But if I were going to even consider following him, I would want some evidence that he's changed before I went headlong into another huge mistake in life. At the very least I would want to see his books. How much money is he now extracting out of his church members? Other churches are transparent, why can't he be transparent? I would want to know how much of the churches money goes into his personal comfort and luxurious life style?
So Chief, when I say "admitting to all the thievery he was involved with" I'm talking about coming clean, not with all the specifics that implicate him personally, but that he should confess his part in this great whore's transgressions. Ashmore acts like nothing that happened bad during his 40 years had anything to do with him. I think we pretty much agree on everything except my definition of thievery might have been a little different than yours. I don't have any evidence that Ashmore was involved in outright stealing or embezzling from the ntcc, but I consider what the ntcc has done over the years to be stealing. If you acquire wealth by deceiving people, it's all thievery to me.
Should Ashmore publicly admit that the practices of preaching mandatory tithe and offerings with an ultimatum of hell being attached to it and being a part in sharing in the wealth and the mansions and nice cars? I think he should admit openly that it was wrong, but I'm pretty sure he won't because I'm pretty sure that's a big reason he left the ntcc, was to get his own piece of the pie.
So what to summarize what I'm saying is that people should consider carefully before climbing on board with Ashmore is how he conducted himself prior to leaving the ntcc and how he has conducted himself now. I'm not anxious to follow someone right now but if I was looking for a church before I'd consider getting involved with an expert manipulator and mind controller, I'd want to make sure he changed. If he is unwilling to confess his own involvement with the ntcc as being corrupt, why should we believe that there was a big reformation in his life now?
ReplyDeleteI can't blindly make the same huge mistake I made before, so unless he shows the world that he's truly changed, I'm going to be very skeptical and I'm going to continue to warn people about him. I can't help that people are not going to listen, they don't listen about the ntcc either. They can't say we didn't try to warn them.
Point well taken my friend. I agree totally.
ReplyDeleteChief
For the record, I don't regard him in the same light as Kekel and Davis. However harsh he may have been, I think he was acting on his convictions, as screwed up as they might have been. He hasn't manifested the same moneygrubbing spirit; although he certainly isn't broke, I never perceived him to be pursuing the same ridiculous excesses as the royalty. As to why he couldn't discern what was going on right in front of his face all those years, well, we've all been there, and although he no doubt saw way more than we did, he may also have been subjected to a far higher level of mind control. No way I'm joining his church, but time will tell whether he will act in an abusive NTCC-like manner going forward. We'll see if the denial will wear off. My current uber-negative attitude toward the NTCC leadership didn't emerge until quite some time after I left. I didn't even leave over their crooked ways, and my perception of that only took hold after hearing the multitudes of sick horror stories chronicled here and elsewhere. Now that he's willing to entertain negative thoughts about the borg, he may yet come around to an appreciation of just how much misery he helped inflict. We can at least hope, right?
ReplyDeleteI am not going to follow Ashmore, because I am enjoying life outside of ntcc & i think their methods don't work, period. I've seen too many churches and experienced them myself where they grow with simple bible teaching and preaching grace and love.
ReplyDeleteHowever, to Ashmore's defense, The last 5-10 years before he left, every chance he got, he did apologize and called himself stupid for preaching the way he did and regretted ever doing those things.
Having said that, his nature for 40 years has been yelling and forceful preaching of his convictions. Now they have turned to healing, grace, and more. But his nature is still the same, its my way or the highway.
I am just not into that anymore. Maybe when we were young that worked but now we are more mature.
One thing that woke me up as a preacher was, Take the Sermon on the mount, from the greatest preacher ever, Jesus Christ. Then try to re-preach word for word what he said. You can't do it with yelling and grunting. They are questions and answers. So why have we changed Jesus' methods? Just sayin'
ANON MIKE
ReplyDeleteWell said Vic,
I think his light bulb moment was Davis dying and having to be led by a fraud. Who knows though, I didn't have the experiences you guys did.
Very good point Vic. Yes we can. Time will tell but then again it might not. He may distance himself from all or most social networks resulting in no one really knowing what going on in his mind or life. I haven't heard from the Shunks for (I think) a couple years now. It seems as thought they've simply moved on and I can understand why. They probably don't want to be reminded of that mess. For a while Greg and (to a much lesser extent) Debbie were displaying strong written opposition to the NTCC. but then they moved on and I don't blame them one bit.
ReplyDeleteI've just chosen not to, (move on that is) at least for now. This whole Ashmore thing has grabbed my interest so I'm back in the saddle again. I like to see the NTCC leadership squirm which I'm sure to some extent is taking place as the result of Ashmore's departure.
Chief
To clarify the "Babe in Christ". What I said was "a babe in walking with Christ outside the constricting grip of NTCC" - I can see how many went right for the "Babe in Christ" due to its more common use, it's ok, I do not hold it against you. Do you see the difference though? Even though Ashmore has been around the organization and can memorize scripture, if he left, as I did, which was to walk with Christ without the constant intruding and controlling of the organization then he should be slowly shedding the org's affect on him spiritually as the Holy Spirit lights his path. The idea of scales falling from the eyes come to mind and this can be a slow process. It is a whole new walk with God when its Jesus plus nothing. There really is a journey in freeing oneself of NTCC and as I said, the fact he left was a big move and to paint him as you do seems void of a sense of humility (simply my opinion and I very well may be wrong). Time is a truth finder, he may prove to be a 2nd fold child of hell or with God's handiwork, he may repent and show true fruit as you are calling for. Yes, Jesus called the Pharisees a bunch of vipers but he also said "he that is without sin cast the first stone". All of us are guilty of contributing to the NTCC model to some degree or another. Because his was 40 yrs and more grievous and mine only 12 yrs and less grievous does not give me a license to aggravate a possible work of grace he may be experiencing. "He that has been forgiven much loveth much". If Ashmore is not following Christ then It will "come to nought" but if he is and slowly gaining his spiritual equilibrium it will be because of Christ of which we are His hands and his feet as well as his mouthpiece. Brother Don, there really is a more excellent way, remember I Cor 13 and the part especially about "love keeps no record of wrongs"? I'm not saying don't blow the trumpet and warn of possible pitfalls, nor am I saying to not call a spade a spade. I did read thru your blog and found plenty of that and rightfully so, and by the way, thank you for sounding the alarm on so many fronts. I would like to suggest to you brother that you take that extra precaution and ensure a stumbling block is not the unintended result. By the way, I am not a Ashmoreite nor am I even the slight bit interested in going to his church. I am just a brother like you that is concerned. God bless you and your wife.
ReplyDeleteStrange but there are a few youtube videos out there and of other preachers from that church. I thought that was footage that was snuck out but I think they tape it and put it out there.
ReplyDeleteI am starting to turn a corner on this whole Ashmore thing. I hope his leaving destroys the NTCC but not create a cult to take its place.
ReplyDeleteIf he was apologizing for years to people that's something. If he goes on social media and calls NTCC out that's something.
I don't know him personally as many of you did but could this be something better? What happens if he does come out from the shadows?
Of course with all the homosexual and perverse conduct, stories of rape and on and on, to me that's just too much to forgive without true punishment first being applied.
To have perspective the leadership of NTCC must be @#$%ing their pants because of his departure and that's good enough for me right now
ReplyDeleteMany years ago, say around 1988 I heard RW Davis recount a dream he said God gave him. It went like this (to the best of my memory):
ReplyDelete"I had a dream where God showed me the future of this organization. In this dream I heard a low buzzing that slowly got louder and louder until it overtook the organization and I couldn't bear to hear it, I got to asking God what this meant and he said the buzzing was people talking". He then went on to say "there is more God showed me but I will not tell you". That is all I remember. Is there anyone else that can remember him talking about this. The people talking I interpret to be all of the abused people who escape and who would of known that the internet would be created and actually used as a tool to do this. I don't think the internet was even talked about back then so there was no way that he would of even seen this coming.
Bryan David Hill
Bryan Hill said:
ReplyDelete"Yes, Jesus called the Pharisees a bunch of vipers but he also said "he that is without sin cast the first stone".
DNA said:
You are comparing apples with oranges, Bryan. Jesus wasn't addressing other Christians, but he was addressing hypocrites. There is a big difference. The Pharisees brought the woman to Jesus to see if he would judge her. Jesus dealt with the woman taken in adultery with love and compassion. He didn't call her a serpent or a viper. We are not out here condemning sinners and collecting money from Christians, absorbing the profits and living large while everyone waits on us hand and foot and supports us so they can be full time free loaders. The Pharisees were full time religious hypocrites just like Ashmore was and still appears to be.
I don't care how long his journey has been, but our point is that his journey has left a trail of carnage of spiritually hurt people, and now just because Kekel has no position for him in his cult, we are all supposed to receive Ashmore as a brother. The people that Ashmore has hurt are not hard to find. Many of them have Facebook accounts just like he does, but has he tried to reach out to any of them? He had been out of the ntcc for months, secretively sucking people into his cult, and hasn't apologized or made any reparations to anyone.
Why shouldn't we warn people about him just like we do about the ntcc? It's okay for us to expose the hypocrites in the ntcc but since Ashmore left we should automatically assume that he changed without evidence of a shred of remorse from him? Denis left the ntcc and now is running a cult even more destructive than the ntcc, and nobody has said a word about his journey and how we should allow him to repent. We aren't disallowing anyone to repent. Repentance is between them and God, but usually it is accompanied by a change in your life. That change should be seen by others.
Bryan said:
ReplyDelete"To clarify the "Babe in Christ". What I said was "a babe in walking with Christ outside the constricting grip of NTCC"
DNA said:
Thanks Bryan for clarifying that. I think many of us did take what you said as meaning "Babe in Christ". However, a hypocrite can be full of the knowledge of God and deny the power thereof. It's hard to even imagine some one like Ashmore being a Babe in Christ in any capacity. First we have to assume that just because he left the ntcc means that he got saved all of the sudden, and now he is new in Christ. I learned from my first ntcc experience not to trust someone who professes Christianity. The ntcc taught me more about how not to serve God, than how to serve God. Sometimes if I have any doubts, I will do the opposite of what they did, because they were flat out wrong on so many fronts, especially when it comes to treating people.
I am amazed at how many people are flocking to Ashmore just because he left the ntcc and now has come out against them. There are many people who blog or speak out against the ntcc that don't consider themselves to be Christians. I have more respect for them than many others who claim to be Christians and do nothing to warn others.
I also understand that some people are just so fed up with the hypocrisy that they choose to ignore it all and live their lives. There are some that have chosen to completely hate God and deny His existence. I have chosen to blog about the ntcc hypocrites, Denis and Ashmore because I see them all as users and abusers. If Denis miraculously got saved I would expect the same changes in him that I would in Ashmore. If Kekel somehow got saved I would expect the same.
I'm tired of people using others to get ahead financially. I'm sick of all the nice buildings, cars and money going into some hypocrites retirement fund while families that struggle are promised that God will bless them if they support the so called Man of God. None of the New Testament Saints, or Jesus carried on like the ntcc leaders or Ashmore.
Bryan Hill said:
ReplyDelete"thank you for sounding the alarm on so many fronts."
DNA said:
Thank you for participating in this blog. I have disagreed with you on much of what you have said. You have been honest and I know that you are not alone in your feelings on this subject. There are many people that are looking at Ashmore almost as if he were the next Messiah. I personally wish he would change, but until that change manifests itself, I'm not going to respect him any more than I respect Kekel, Olson or Denis. I see these people as the scum of the earth, because of how they have prospered off of the weak and how they have used and abused people over the years.
I disagree with you Bryan, but I don't hate you or think any less of you because of your opinion. I don't know if we have met or if our paths have ever crossed, but in spite of our differences I respect the fact that you don't hide behind a fake name or use the anonymous tag to hide behind as you drive by and take shots at us. So many have done this in the past.
I want to second that, thanks for giving your opinion on things. I only hope to see HOP/NTCC destroyed. Whatever Ashmore creates, we can only hope that it isn't destructive.
ReplyDeleteMy biggest problem is there needs to be a formal accounting of misdeeds and crimes against children by everyone involved.
While Ash appears to be going the assembly of God route, Denis is going the Strangle them to death route. NTCC is right in the middle.
ReplyDelete2 of them shall perish but Ashmore can tickle ears pretty well.
Time will tell.