The following is a tragic history of abuse shared by Julie, the Daughter of Ralph and Joan St. Clair.
As I thought about writing what has happened to me, all I can think about is those that continue to live in silence. This may be a challenge to read I know for it is a difficult to write but the truth can’t hide behind the door no longer.
Abuse can come in all forms and it would take me a long time to put it all out there so I am going to only focus on some of sexual abuse.
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| Mike Kekel Circa 1983 |
I remember Michael Kekel in Tillicum, Washington. I don’t remember the whole time he was there for I was quite young but there is something I do remember. I didn’t like him. Back then I pretty much loved all people and had no problem talking to complete strangers. Kekel on the other hand always seemed proud, stuck –up, and rude at least that is the words I would put to it now.
He took a few pictures of me back then which is not odd in itself but what these pictures were of was strange for him to take or even keep. Like any little girl sitting in a dress modesty isn’t the first priority. Each of these pictures you could see up my dress some even seeing part of my private area. He has never let me forget he still has these pictures.
I still remember my parents telling me when we left Tillicum to go to St.Loius, Washington for my parents to go to Bible School that Kekel would be coming with us. It bothered me that my mother and father did seem to mind how rude he was to others.
They keep telling me he is your elder obey and respect him. My parents gave most adults in my life the freedom to spank me as they saw fit. Kekel was no exception. This included flipping me over pulling up my dress and pulling down my underwear and spanking me. (This gave a lot of men free access to me)
It seemed like I was getting spanked over and over that trip. Spanking gave freedom for touching. (Why was I spanked by him with my parents present?) I look back on this now it seemed he had a thing for little girls’ bottoms even back then. This began my fear of this man. Over the years he would never let me forget he was my elder and how the bible said for me to respect him.
This was just the small step into guys and sex with me. I knew if a man told me I was in trouble a bare butt spanking was to follow. I don’t remember the name of every man that touched but I will never forget the moments. Spankings included more than just swats in many cases. I will say this there were times that swats were the only thing that happened.
St. Louis carries so many mixed emotions for me for throughout my life there were people that treated me well and those that didn’t. It is in St.Loius that I started school. I loved my teacher but hated the principal. His name was Rudy. When I was sent to his office he would threaten me with the belt and then would touch me in weird ways. I told my mom and she just told me then be good and you won’t have to go to the office. I feared the touching more than I feared the belt. He told me at 5 years old he had different feelings towards people then others did. He said He loved men and little girls not women. I asked him why he got married and he said they made him do it. No one believed me when I shared what he said. At the time I had no idea what that meant.
I will never forget this next scene as long as I live. My parents went to the bible school so I like all other students’ kids went to babysitters which were anyone you could get to watch your child for cheap at crazy hours. One of my many babysitters were the Kellys (think that is the right spelling). They had a son by the name Tim I believe. Being as young as I was he was probably 17 to early twenties. One day I was wearing a dress my mom had made for she was a seamstress. It was yellow with flowers and lace on the ruffles. This particular day I was wearing homemade blue underwear. What engraves this day into my mind was until that day I knew there was a difference between male and female but had not seen the difference. Their son took me into his room pulled down his pants showed me his private area laid me on his bed then told me to show him my private area. I said I didn’t want to but he pulled my underwear down anyway. I thought at that point he was going to spank me since I had refused to show on my own. He put his fingers in my private area and then just smiled at me. He had me get dress and we went out of the room. I tried to tell my mother but she just told me to not make up stories. She talked to me about being obedient to elders also said you wouldn’t want people to make up stories about you. I was in kindergarten. I had no access to TV or the outside world; let your mind think on this.
I lived in St. Louis for my kindergarten and first grade years. I attended the borg day school as they called it. There were many men that had access to me some I don’t remember their names but I will never forget how they treated me. Davis was no exception. I don’t know if he loves butts or breasts more. He had this thing for grabbing my butt when I was little and when I was older the touching changed. It always puzzled me that ministers were told to never been alone with members especially women/children but yet that didn’t apply to him.
He had this thing for insulting kids. He would tell little boys you aren’t a boy you are a sissy girl. Remember one day a little boy finally pulled his pants to proof he was a boy. The parents were more upset at their son then they were at Davis for pushing to that point.
You may think they are just hiding perverts but in reality it is perverts hiding perverts. Insulting the righteous for fear of their own sin coming to light.
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| Ralph St. Clair Raped his daughter, Julie shares, and even got her pregnant! Joan let this happen. Allegedly both of them knew others were sexually abusing and spanking their daughter Julie, including then-time NTCC President Rodger Wilson Davis and his son-in-law the current NTCC CEO, Michael Craig Kekel. |
This leads me to the beginning of the sexual stuff with my father at the age of 7. At first it was just touching. He would use every reason in the book to touch. Once he said he feared a rash so called me into his room and made me take off my underwear to touch. Why would he think a rash when I had made no indication of there being an issue down there?
At this time my parents had started a new servicemen’s home in Texas which is now the Ft. Hood, Texas servicemen’s home. Many men came through that place while we were there. Some okay and some as much as a prevent as my father. (we moved to 4 different homes in my 2nd grade year) I think the reason for moving one of the times was I had said something to the neighbor about not liking how men touched me. This began the rule of what happens in our home stays in our home because the sinful world doesn’t understand how God wants us to live.
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| Rodger Wilson Davis Prophet?! or Pedophile?! |
I remember Davis coming through and being scared of him. The first time he came through we were in the first home which had a converted garage. This is the place we held what I call the insulting sessions. (Some would call it church) My father didn’t share the gospel. He just got up and told everyone how horrible they were. Anyways Davis came and that night he said He wanted to talk to me. I told him I had to go to bed. He told me what he says is over what my parents say. This night he explained the chain of command. It was Davis then my father and then my mother. He told me he had the right to change any rules my parents gave me. We were in the converted garage and as the norm insulting session began by this age I had low self –esteem. He also did sexual stuff to me. My father didn’t even stop or question him about pulling me aside in that room nor when he decided he would be put me to bed himself. This I believe started me hating the bedroom. It was no longer a good place anymore.
Playing Church - Caution NTCC Church Meeting - May "Trigger" or Bring Up BAD Memories - Length: 4 Seconds
Above Video: NTCC Minister Ralph St. Clair (hiding behind a NTCC Pulpit) is accused of raping his daughter.
The sexual abuse of my father didn’t stop it continued until my marriage to Donny Ridgeway. What helped me survive it was I had an awesome brother John St.Clair.
The scenes continued with only touching until I moved to Louisiana. Louisiana is where it began to get worse. Some details of Louisiana is too painful to type. A lot of spankings happened here. Some of the stuff happened by other ministers from other denominations. No area I lived in excluded sexual spanks from many men.
One person that was good to me there was Chris Kinson complete with his van that started with a screw driver. I hated when he moved from Louisiana because he was so kind to me.
Be careful how you treat children for the good and bad are engraved in them. It is important to apologize to a child when wrong; for it will change what pain they carry into adulthood.
In Louisiana the touching continued until I turned 9 that is where full sex began. I didn’t understand it but the sexual stuff threw me into early puberty. I had 36 C breasts by 9 ½. This caused some ill development. ( by the age of 10 some people thought I was 18)
There were a few men that lived near us which started having sex with me. At first it would seem that they acted alone but I began to complain about going over to their house. They had kids that I was supposed to be visiting but some times when I was sent over there they weren’t there. My father didn’t seem to care almost like he knew what was happening. My mother started having many health issues and I became even more important to my father with his sexual needs. This is when the journey began of having sex with my father started until I was 16 and married.
Once again it was the love of my brother that carried me through. Like all states I lived in we moved a lot. One of the places we lived while in Louisiana was the projects. Now I love of races of people but there was an interesting part about living in the projects. There at that time you had the black side of town and the white side of town. We were living in the black side of town the only white people in that neighborhood. We would leave our windows up since it was hot. One night this young man came into my window because he wanted some with a white girl. I begged him to leave for he had woke me out of a dead sleep. After he left I was scared so I went to my parents. They just laughed at me and they blow it off. A day or two later my mom was in my room and she found a condom. She got angry at me about having it and told me it belonged in the garbage. It had fluid in it yet my mom didn’t care where it came from. (Her action just floors me now) My brother found out and was quite upset for me. He offered to sleep in the same room as me which led us to sleeping in the living room. This was one of the few places we had our own rooms. He slept in the same room I slept in until the day we move out of that place.
Nine months after I turned 9 we moved back to St. Louis where my father began teaching in the bible school. We lived first in a duplex by the old NTCC building. The sexual stuff continued with my father. Davis never stopped touching me when opportunity was given. Over the next few years we stayed in Missouri. During that time many men had their way with me which include me getting pregnant while in St.Loius. (Doctors say due to the early sex, pregnancies, miscarriages, etc. it led me to have female issues as well as difficult pregnancies with the 2 kids I have) When I lived on Vermont Ave in one of the houses that flowed back and forward ownership between people in the borg Davis would sometimes park his RV by those group of houses. One I was told he wanted to talk to me in his RV. I went in there. This time unlike others time where his wife was in the RV as well, he was alone this time. He asked if I had been spanked for disobeying him. I told him this time I had not told my father so no I had not been spanked. He decided since I had failed to tell my father of my wrong he would spank me himself. Like I said before people had the freedom to spank whenever they felt the need especially leaders in the borg. He told me to pull down my underwear and bend over his lap. I had been so trained fighting never crossed my mind. That day the underwear came off and there was more than spanking and touching. Though this was the only time he strayed from spanking and the touching only, I will never never forget that day.*
*At the time that this was written, Julie considered all violations of her body that were sexual in nature to be rape or sex acts. All of these acts would be considered sexual crimes committed by Davis, and some have different legal terms. We asked Julie specifically about this sentence because it appears to mean that the only time that Davis did anything other than spank or touch her was on this occasion. When Julie used the word 'touching' she clarified to us that it included oral sex, and other sexual violations of her body that did not include sexual intercourse. A child who grows up in this type of atmosphere has no idea what all the terms are and what the legal implications are. She was taught to blame herself for all of Davis' actions and Ralph and Joan's also. Julie confirmed that this was the only time she and Davis had sexual intercourse. But there were many other times when the touching mentioned in the above paragraph was referring to other types of sexual acts such as oral sex and molestation. At the time this was written, Julie was still processing all of the horrible things that happened to her. Even today, people have different definitions of what sex is, what intercourse is, and there are also many legal descriptions that define many actions that even people who are not a victim have a hard time understanding. Bill Clinton even tried to get away with saying that oral sex was not sex. He said: "I did not have sex with that woman". How hard is it for a victim of many sexual crimes to distinguish all of the terms and legal definitions? Julie also was just starting to share her story and felt uncomfortable which is normal. How many of you would like to admit that some old pedophile raped you and did other horrible things to you? If you put yourself in the victims shoes and stop trying to justify the actions of the wicked, you might understand a little better what she went through.
*At the time that this was written, Julie considered all violations of her body that were sexual in nature to be rape or sex acts. All of these acts would be considered sexual crimes committed by Davis, and some have different legal terms. We asked Julie specifically about this sentence because it appears to mean that the only time that Davis did anything other than spank or touch her was on this occasion. When Julie used the word 'touching' she clarified to us that it included oral sex, and other sexual violations of her body that did not include sexual intercourse. A child who grows up in this type of atmosphere has no idea what all the terms are and what the legal implications are. She was taught to blame herself for all of Davis' actions and Ralph and Joan's also. Julie confirmed that this was the only time she and Davis had sexual intercourse. But there were many other times when the touching mentioned in the above paragraph was referring to other types of sexual acts such as oral sex and molestation. At the time this was written, Julie was still processing all of the horrible things that happened to her. Even today, people have different definitions of what sex is, what intercourse is, and there are also many legal descriptions that define many actions that even people who are not a victim have a hard time understanding. Bill Clinton even tried to get away with saying that oral sex was not sex. He said: "I did not have sex with that woman". How hard is it for a victim of many sexual crimes to distinguish all of the terms and legal definitions? Julie also was just starting to share her story and felt uncomfortable which is normal. How many of you would like to admit that some old pedophile raped you and did other horrible things to you? If you put yourself in the victims shoes and stop trying to justify the actions of the wicked, you might understand a little better what she went through.
By this time so many men had spanked, touched, and had sex with me. Some of them I only knew by name Bro. others I have trouble saying or even typing their names but I will never forget the moments. I didn’t know all this was called sex until I got married. I will say this borg is led by some very power hungry and sexually driven people. It is a sexual ring that they like to put God and the church stamp on.
This takes us to Lakewood, Washington. I hope things would be different but they just got more intense in the sexual department. Like I said before the sexual stuff was still continuing with my father. In Washington is where several of my pregnancies happened including the one with my father. One of the ladies in the church who had 3 kids of her own, was such a great help to me. I wish I had told her that it wasn’t teen rebellion that I got pregnant. She only discovered one of my pregnancies which I am surprised she noticed one. (She unfortunately dead later in a car crash)
I had my weight scrutinized all the time. If I gained 1lb on a diet I was put. This started at the age of 8. If I looked fat I was humiliated by my father and the leaders. I got married 3 months before my 17th birthday and weight 120lbs and was told I was fat by Davis and Ashmore thought it was pretty funny when I began to cry. He always thought it was funny whenever Davis, Kekel, or any other man got on me for anything. Ashmore has had his time with me as well. It is very hard to talk about it.
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| James Ross Ashmore - Alleged NTCC Sexual Predator Hiding Sex Crimes with Children Behind a Religious Title and Cheesy Smile |
In Lakewood there were a few different men that came through the church that had their way with me. (I sometimes wonder if they were brought into the church by my father to have their way with me) Mind you I know for a fact I wasn’t the only little girl sex toy my father had. My father would make sex remarks from the pulpit that were so wrong.
When we moved into Lakewood they brought all the civilians from Tillicum Washington to begin the church. One thing I think is so down right stupid is why force and I mean force people to leave a military church because they are civilians. Believe me the military don’t hate civilians. There might be a few but not all. Why not get them an opportunity not a man-date. Oh I am sorry that would go against your controlling ways. You say you are not part of the mean, controlling, and prejudices people. Then why do you act like them.
Anyways back to what I was talking about. They moved two men into the Lakewood civilian church mind you. They were supposed to help pay the bills. So my father could be full-time. (Are you joking?) Well it started out the guys would have the full attic to themselves. My brother, my parents, and I would have the 3 bedrooms on the first floor. I had a new bedroom in the fact the niceness one I had ever had before. Davis came to see the house. He said I didn’t deserve the room I was in because I didn’t pay rent like the guys so up to the attic I went. Being in the attic away from everything started the free access to me by one of the men living there. Sex between us in the attic happened quite often. All he had to do is wait for my parents to be a sleep and up he would come. When others in the church couldn’t watch me this man Lange would do the watching. I was so scared of him. A few times my father came upstairs caught him coming out and didn’t seen bought by it. It was one of those times it hit me he knew what was happening just like himself.
My parents wouldn’t take me serious. My mother accused me of lying because I had hate for men in my heart. I didn’t hate men at that time but I was very confused about everything. A preacher in another one of the Washington churches at the time heard of my supposed lies. (This man had some overseeing of at least the Lakewood church I think……all I know is he had say over who lived in the house) He ended up talking to me and I was shaking and crying uncontrollably. He said the men were to move out immediately. I was shocked he took me seriously. I guess Lange was known for his sexual problems. I wish I would have been brave enough to tell this man what my father was doing but he was friends with my father. I feared that it would be back to having both my father and Lange under my roof.
In time we moved to the Tillicum servicemen’s home. I was scared I didn’t want to go. There were so many men and no one to stop them. Those that know the lay-out of that servicemen’s home will know when I say no one cared where my room was in that place. My parent’s room was on one side of the kitchen and my room was on the other side of the kitchen and bathroom. There were the good and the bad ones that came through there. There were two G.I.’s that made me feel most safe and I was so upset anytime duty called them away. I knew my father didn’t care but these men did.
I hated sleeping in that place because I never knew who would show up and when. I had a lot of sexual encounters with men there. Finally one G.I. decided I needed a lock on my door. My father decided the leaders needed to be contacted about this. Davis said as long as this G.I. paid for everything involving it he could go ahead. My father didn’t offer a dime or any help at all. I remember it got broke and no one wanted to take claim for the breaking of it. It didn’t get fixed for a while. I was accused of destroying property because I had no idea what happened. My theory is sense I had a key I always locked it before leaving since anyone could come in while gone; I think someone tried to break in while my parents and were gone. A caring parent would have fixed it right away before any other duty in that home.
By this point in my life I had had a few pregnancies; internally physically and emotionally I was a hurting mess. I then got married and the road that led to that is a whole another story.
There are details of the sexual stuff I am unable to type out but I hope you will stop and think about what I did share. Are you paying for a child to be sexually scarred for life? With your money there is more time for sex with the unwilling participates.
Related Posts:
Inspired by Julie's story and similarities of controlling groups like NTCC, WOFF and the Waco, TX Branch Davidians, a heart-felt analysis of the cheapening of life within these groups, written by John Huddle, the Administrator of the Religious Cults Info site.
We often suspected that things were a lot worse than anyone could imagine. We believe everything you wrote Julie. You should have never had to go through any of that at any time and none of it is your fault. You were failed by adults, ministers, pastors, church members and board members and Davis and Kekel. My blood boils right now because for all these years these ministers have painted a picture of themselves being pure as the wind driven snow, and now we find out that they are nothing but a bunch of child molesting predators and as you described them, they are perverts hiding perverts. It means nothing to them to destroy a child's life and to ruin a young girls childhood.
ReplyDeleteJulie, we love you in Christ and nobody will ever be able to love you like God loves you. I hope these evil people are done trying to ruin your life. They have done enough damage to last a hundred lifetimes. You are so completely brave and we have nothing but respect for what you are doing. This proves that there is a pattern of abuse in the ntcc and we know that there are many, many victims out there. We've had others share stories but they couldn't go public. I can't imagine how hard it was for you to do this, but for the souls out there that have endured similar abuse, they can now be comforted that they were not alone and that you are overcoming this horrific past. If you can overcome what you went through it gives others hope.
These people are rotten to the core and they need to be shut down. Many of them should be in prison. If this ever does go to court, I don't think there is a jury out there that would side with these rich hypocritical predators. I can't stand what they did to you.
If you are an ntcc church member or minister, you need to start searching your heart and think really hard if you want to be a party to all of this corruption. Open your eyes and wake up to reality. You can jump the pews and run the isles, you can shout and dance and go through all the motions but at the end of the day your ntcc is only as spiritual as it's leaders. The ntcc was a sex ring and it all was covered up and the ones that are guilty of it are the ones we all made rich with our tithes and offerings. It makes me sick to think about it.
Wow..... That's all I can say. I got your message Don. NTCCers are so brainwashed that they'd even ignore this thread. Who knows, maybe there is a senior Chaplain who would be interested. I guess it's worth one more try.
ReplyDeleteThey'll say that this is the devil fighting them. I'm sure we've got lots of new readers. If Joan and Ralph happen to be reading this, don't you dare try to lay a guilt trip on your daughter by saying that she is the cause of any souls that will miss out on heaven. You need to place the blame where it belongs, and that is on yourselves. You are not fit to be in the ministry and you are responsible for any damage that people might receive because of this.
ReplyDeleteIf anything, Julie is doing them a huge favor. If people leave it will be for their good. They will not have to spend years of their lives in a cult that was built upon corruption and lies. A person has a better chance of making it as a Christian outside of the ntcc than they do on the inside. The ntcc has a horrible track record when it comes to keeping people saved, and most of you ntcc'rs do nothing to help a person get to heaven. You burden people down with rules that you make up as you go along and you introduce them to unspeakable sins. Don't even try to pat yourself on the back for winning souls to Christ after you have corrupted so many people. You might as well have held her down and allowed her to be raped repeatedly, because that is what you have actually allowed. How many people have violated your daughter because you turned your back on her and failed to protect her? You are supposed to be the protector of your child but you allowed her to be hurt and ignored her cries for help and deliverance. God has heard her cries and the cries of all others that have been hurt in the ntcc. The one that you thought would never be able to stand up for herself is now being used by the true and living God to help others that have been hurt just like her. The best thing that all of the ntcc predators can do is to confess their sins publicly to all they have wronged and step down and spend the rest of your lives and your fortunes trying to help people that are hurting inside because of people just like you. Don't knock on doors and think you are doing God a favor when you are not even right.
If anyone leaves the ntcc because of your unthinkable behavior, don't blame Julie and don't feel sorry for them. They will have a much better chance at making it to heaven without the perversion that you have allowed to take place over the years and they will be free from dedicating their time and finances to an organization that was built for the sexual gratification of it's leaders.
I read this last night and I couldn't even think of writing a thing until this morning I was so upset!
ReplyDeleteJulie, we love you and support you! What can I do to support you/help you? Have you received proper healing, proper counseling if needed? You do realize NONE of this is your fault right? NONE of this should've ever happened to you.
If we can get a group of people to be as brave as Julie & come forth with their truths, I personally will spend every waking moment I have to expose them via media. I personally will take the list TO the Graham church and demand answers. I know they won't give any answers except kick me out and say I'm working for the devil, but I will personally do it and all I can. I will pickit as often as I can with signs outside their gates, just off their property so they can't kick me out. I am willing to do whatever it takes to get this years of lies and deceipt exposed. Anyone on board?
I am going to contact TLC - they are the channel that is running all of the FLDS stories. I know they would like to hear about all the stuff thats been going on here. Is anyone else willing to share their stories? Julie, IF by an answer of God, I get TLC to respond, would you be willing to go public? I am willing to put all I can into the truth getting out there. I'm praying people will open up and share more truths and realize it is to help stop this. It is to help others from being hurt as many of us have been. How about Dr. Phil - maybe I should write him too? What do you all think? I'll start writing everyone I can and I'll do whatever I can. I just need to know people are on board and willing to share/open up.
Thank you Julie & Don and Ange for sharing.
Membership in NTCC does not guarantee that you are walking the straight and narrow way:
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/UL0Mlmitw60
If you were sexually abused...
ReplyDeletehttp://youtu.be/IbtyVjbtoDo
http://centers.rainn.org/
ReplyDeletehttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1BIn3NZs7EGGUzqHCJSIAIjEPC8kZZd_xZQkngTACMbE/edit
Check out WWW.RAINN.ORG
Kat says...I read this last night and I couldn't even think of writing a thing until this morning I was so upset!
ReplyDeleteThe fact that you were upset shows you have a heart!
Thanks for your care and support.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA says...Julie, we love you in Christ and nobody will ever be able to love you like God loves you.
ReplyDeleteIt is only because of His love I can stand today.
DNA says...These people are rotten to the core and they need to be shut down. Many of them should be in prison. If this ever does go to court, I don't think there is a jury out there that would side with these rich hypocritical predators. I can't stand what they did to you.
Yes they are rotten and shouldn't be able to call it church. Like you said with your video in the post "They are playing church"
DNA says...
If you are an ntcc church member or minister, you need to start searching your heart and think really hard if you want to be a party to all of this corruption.
I hope member and minster alike will think twice about what they are supporting.
Hugs,
Julie
Anon...says Wow
ReplyDeleteYes when things are done in the name of God it can leave one speechless.
I have to say though I am surprised how many are shocked and even upset by what has happened. I didn't know how many would even care what happened to me since I am only dirt to the leaders.
Hugs,
Julie
I want to challenge all parents that have been in or are in NTCC
ReplyDeleteto ask your children that were in or are still in (Minor or Adult) what is the worse experience they had in NTCC
....you say I didn't abuse my children then I applaud you but think on this.
Were your children with you at all times........what about the babysitters during bible school, conferences, church programs, Graham church, while you were doing the "Work of the Lord".I wonder how many times they have and were humiliated, yelled at, maybe even hit etc.
You say this will be hard....Your children maybe carrying a burden you know nothing about....free them and let them know how sorry you are it happen and you would have stopped had you knew....A heart felt apology goes a long way....if you are in show your children you truly have a protective parent's heart and leave.
Leaving is the greatest act of love you can do for your children.
If you have left you are a hero. If you haven't left it isn't too late to be come a hero for your children.
Hugs,
Julie
There are a few things that we will address in the coming days. Today, we will address Rudy, the principal of the ntcc K-12 school. Rudy had absolutely no business being around children. It is alarming that he was given power to spank other peoples children whenever he deemed it necessary.
ReplyDeleteRudy was caught cross dressing by Davis. Davis knew that Rudy had a sexual appetite that controlled him. Why would Davis make him the principal of the ntcc school? You don't give someone like that access to boys and girls bare naked butts.
Rudy went on to become servicemen's director at Ft. Polk, LA, which was another position that gave him access to and power over young men. Rudy was replaced at Ft. Polk by Broadnax, who was another predator who couldn't control himself around young men. Is that a coincidence? Or was it a coincidence that Rudy replaced Hummel at Ft. Bragg. Homosexual pastors were following each other to take over from other homosexual pastors. Perverts hiding perverts. Now you can call me 'homophobic' if you want to, but if anyone has a right to be homophobic it is me. I personally think that homosexuals are people just like everyone else. I think they need God just like everyone else. But when a person is in a position of Spiritual leadership over young men and they use that power to exploit and manipulate them for their own sexual gratification, it becomes a sickness and there is no excuse for it.
Rudy was a manipulator and a predator of the worse sort. He preached hell fire and brimstone as well as anyone to include Ashmore. He preached salvation and many people received ntcc style salvation and many moved into the Servicemen's Home. In fact we had 17 brothers living in the home. Rudy used scriptures to justify his feelings toward other men and he used his position to gain sexual access to them. I know that many will not understand this, but is very much the same as what Sandusky did at Penn State. I was 19 years old, which is legally considered to be an adult. However, I grew up with an inferiority complex, because my step father drilled it into my head that I was stupid. I had no confidence in myself, but believed that the ntcc was the only hope for me.
So what is the age when a boy becomes a man? Does it magically happen at 18? The legal drinking age is 21, and in many cultures to include the Jews of the old testament, men were not considered to be mature until they were 25 and in some cases 30 years old. I was confused and fearful for my soul. I knew what Rudy was doing was wrong but he kept saying, "Unto the pure, all things are pure". I'll tell you this, I thought about leaving many times and I prayed over and over that God would deliver me from Rudy. There were others in the home that were manipulated and violated against their will besides me. There was a married man in the home that was forced to get circumcised and Rudy 'doctored' him. There were others that would go into his bedroom for 'counseling' and they would come out with that fearful and betrayed look on their face.
Eventually, God heard my prayer and I was able to escape from the torment that I was enduring. Rudy would preach against Homosexuality vehemently and then force others to commit the sin with him. This is really the same way that Davis and many of his sick pedophile subordinates manipulate young women.
ReplyDeleteAs for me, I ended up being tested in Korea by Broadnax who actually used to sleep with the brethren on the floor of the servicemen's home in Korea. He attempted to fondle me, but I refused the advance. Why are we going over this again? Because I know it happened to others as well. I know Rudy was a predator and a pedophile, who took liberties with boys, girls and young men. Julie has verified this much.
We want people to see how sick the ntcc is and how sick the people in charge are. The ntcc board members are not good people. They are loyal to Davis and they are manipulators just like Davis. Olson, Kekel and Ashmore are all the same. They use people and mistreat them and kick them to the curb when they are done with them.
What Julie has shared, is not all new. It verifies what others have shared and it also establishes a vicious pattern that many have ignored or discounted for years.
I feel the need to share this.
ReplyDeleteI know some of you have been withholding your stories. You have your reasons. I think some of you believe you are protecting family members by not talking about abuse you or they endured.
However, I am reminded of this passage of the scripture:
Ezekiel 33:6
But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand.
I don't mean to cast a snare on you; but to caution you. Are you a watchman? Should you warn others about those running the ntcc?
I lived in some apartments one time. My apartment was upstairs. I heard a strange sound and went to the balcony to see what it was. Below me I saw a young boy throwing stones at a house behind the apartment complex. I thought about telling him to stop; but decided not to do so. I reasoned that he would only return later and break out the windows of my apartment. As I thought about it, one of his stones met the mark and shattered a sliding glass door of the neighbor's house. *sigh*
I had done nothing, and now the neighbor was going to pay for my inaction.
I called the police, but nothing ever came of it. The house was empty, for sale. Maybe the owners' insurance paid for the repair?
Meanwhile, within a day or two, one of the windows in my apartment was broken. And I received instruction. Will you?
Will Julie have to continue to stand alone in what she endured? Will others bravely step up and verify what she has said because they know the truth because they too have suffered? You could choose an anonymous screen name to put on your posts. I just am concerned that if you remain silent, your silence may cause a different result than what you are hoping for. I'm not mad at anyone. I'm not condemning anyone. I just felt I should share this.
Ange.
Another thing about Rudy. There were many red flags and warning signs that were ignored. Davis put many people at risk because he knew what Rudy was all about and he enabled him to do the things he did. He removed Rudy when his homosexuality became public as a damage control measure only.
ReplyDeleteWhat we are really trying to convey here is how silence can cause the suffering of many. Now the cat is out of the bag and people are learning how dangerous the ntcc is, but even with this knowledge, there are still predators that have flown under the radar. They are lurking in the midst of you ntcc'rs waiting to hurt and destroy someone else's lives.
In the name of religion many terrible things happen. People strap bombs on themselves and kill folks. Families are torn apart and people are abused physically and sexually. The ntcc is a cult. The things that are done to most people in the ntcc defy human decency. Many long time members have become desensitized from the enormity of it all. To repeat the words of a friend and advocate of abuse victims: It must grieve God immeasurably.
How is it acceptable that someone else should spank your child? I am finding out now for the first time that parents were allowing their kids to be spanked by so called ministers in the church. Child services would take your child away if you spanked them in public, what about if someone else pulled your childs pants and underwear down and spanked them? Huge warning flags here. This was common place and everyone has been hush hush about it. This is your ntcc.
Now that we are out of the ntcc, we don't have to worry about being jacked up by some preacher or becoming conference fodder. Back in the day we were all scared to think for ourselves and that questioning anything was a sin. We blamed the devil for thoughts that any ordinary person would have. But we don't have to be scared of these people any more.
ReplyDeleteDo you think that the St. Clairs were anointed to abuse their daughter? Do you think that they should be allowed to hurt another person the way they hurt her? Should they be in the ministry in a position of trust? It's called child abuse people, and in the ntcc they are harbored and protected by men and women of like minds.
Don said...Another thing about Rudy. There were many red flags and warning signs that were ignored. Davis put many people at risk because he knew what Rudy was all about and he enabled him to do the things he did.
ReplyDeleteI remember after a few children had complained about Rudy I was at Davis' house and over heard something. He said that Rudy, like all men have trouble not having their sexual needs met. He went on to say it is better for him to be around adults. ( like if he were to do it to adults, they as a church wouldn't get in as much trouble because they could claim false consent)
Davis knew what Rudy would do going into that servicemen's home. Davis said we need workers no matter their sexual desires.
Like saying We will take Homosexual or straight as long as they will be a minister.
Hummel was another that like to do sexual stuff to me. Davis knew long before he went into a church what he was all about.
Once again "Perverts hiding perverts".
Don said.. He removed Rudy when his homosexuality became public as a damage control measure only.
Yes Davis and all the leaders like to put on the surprise face when things come to light. Like if we had an idea we would have done things different.
Davis would blame others and say they failed to tell me what was happening. He turns a deaf ear to people.
He knows the truth yet you follow him and his sex addicted junkies....think about people.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA says...How is it acceptable that someone else should spank your child? I am finding out now for the first time that parents were allowing their kids to be spanked by so called ministers in the church. Child services would take your child away if you spanked them in public, what about if someone else pulled your childs pants and underwear down and spanked them? Huge warning flags here. This was common place and everyone has been hush hush about it. This is your ntcc.
ReplyDeleteHow many have got a hold of your children for a spanking? Have you asked them?
Hugs,
Julie
DNA says...We want people to see how sick the ntcc is and how sick the people in charge are. The ntcc board members are not good people. They are loyal to Davis and they are manipulators just like Davis. Olson, Kekel and Ashmore are all the same. They use people and mistreat them and kick them to the curb when they are done with them.
ReplyDeleteIt is like bubble gum they chew you until there is no flavor for their enjoyment then in the trash you go.
You don't have to live this way anymore. You can rise from the trash and have a new beginning.
Hugs,
Julie
This "I have a Name" series is an over reaching, steaming pile of BS, the Scriptures enjoin us to ".. comfort the feeble minded" not empower them to fabricate scurrilous and nonsensical anecdotes, of an over the top inflammatory nature. We are supposed to believe that the lovely Julie St. Clair was systematically alternately, spanked, "panties down", and fingered/raped by ever man she came in contact with, and not only this, she had "magical powers" to cause known homo's to abandon their sexual proclivities towards men, and engage in hetero activities with this lovely young lady, not quite a Christmas Miracle, but without a doubt one of the biggest Fairy Tales you degenerates have attempted to Foist on your reader ship. You will not publish this, but know this, intelligent folk can see through this load of Crap. "Hugs"
ReplyDeleteCongratulations Julie! You've received your first anonymous-driveby-sniper attack on this blog! Guess it's the cowardly son of the spanker with the camera. What a coward.
ReplyDeleteWe've shared this before, and here it is again:
ReplyDelete1) This is our blog. It is not run by you manipulative liars and cowards.
2) Comments attempting to dump on and mock victims of your father's sexual predatory behavior will not be tolerated from anonymous punks.
3) Look in the mirror. Your father and grandfather are hypocrites and liars. Your mother and grandmother are materialistic frauds.
4) You would have nothing without the hard labor of all the people your parents and grandparents have taken advantage of.
5) None of you have worked a day in your life. You are leeches on the body of Christ. May God require it of you.
Anon you need to get your facts straight. Let’s go through them one by one.
ReplyDeleteAnon said....We are supposed to believe that the lovely Julie St. Clair was systematically alternately, spanked, "panties down", and fingered/raped by ever man she came in contact with.
Julie says….I never said all men. If you would thoroughly read what I wrote with a clear mind you will find I mentioned some that didn't treat me that way and I never used the word all involving men hurting me.
Anon said.....and not only this, she had "magical powers" to cause known homo's to abandon their sexual proclivities towards men, and engage in hetero activities with this lovely young lady
Julie says…Anon haven’t you ever heard of bisexual? Bisexual people like both sides of the fence though they prefer one side more than the other. Rudy like males more than females but did like touching little girls for he like how they feel in their private area. He said so himself.
Anon said…..This "I have a Name" series is an over reaching, steaming pile of BS
Julie says…..It is kind of interesting that you would even use the letters of a curse word for you leaders to me to do that would send someone straight to hell.
Anon said….You will not publish this, but know this, intelligent folk can see through this load of Crap
Julie says…..There you going again using a word that was taught in NTCC as a curse word.
Anon said……the Scriptures enjoin us to ".. comfort the feeble minded"
Julie says…..Okay you want to say I am feeble minded let go with it. If you in fact think me feeble mind why did I not get comfort from the leaders in NTCC. Why did I receive insults and put downs? So you think me feeble mind….I would rather be accused of that and have love for the hurting souls NTCC cares nothing about, then have all the intelligence in the world and throw people away like garbage.
Anon I want to leave you with this. Everyone needs God including you. I will pray for you. You must come to Him with a humble heart. God doesn’t care how perfect you may think you are; you still need God. We all must stand before God one day; all the way from the lawyer to the beggar. What will he have to say about your life?
P.S. I know you mocked my way of ending a comment but I will still end it the same.
Hugs,
Julie
I think we all should pray for Anonymous. He sounds like a pretty bitter person. After reading what our Anonymous poster wrote a few times, it was written with a lot of hatred and sarcasm. It almost sounded like that person might have been someone involved in the abuse or someone who knew about it when it happened and wants Julie to remain silent.
ReplyDeleteI do think that the love that Julie has in her heart to want to pray for that individual is something that we all can learn from. When I read what anonymous wrote, it was more of an attack on her credibility than anything else. You see, the ntcc sympathizers, have different standards that apply to themselves, and a set of standards that apply to everyone else. They are the only ones that are allowed to accuse and excuse. Everyone else should just remain silent. We are referred to as 'degenerates' yet we are not the ones that are out there taking advantage of others for gain or self gratification. The ntcc has a track record of harboring pedophiles and a pattern of trying to cover up abuse. We are advocates for the victims and there are many.
So another victim comes forward and this time there is so much dirt that they can't cover it all up so what do they do? They don't deny that it happened, nor do they address any of the issues, but they exhaust themselves by slinging mud at the messenger and the victim.
"Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye."
ReplyDeleteCol 3:13
It's sometimes hard to do, but as Christ forgave us, so should we also forgive others. This doesn't mean that we will not stick up for those who have been wronged by the ntcc and it's leadership. We will continue to allow the Victims of ntcc abuse to have a voice, which they were not allowed to have while they were in the ntcc.
All of us know how it was in the ntcc. We knew better than to speak up on many occasions, so we kept things inside. I remember a time when a minister that I was keeping the books for was making false entries into the ledger. I knew it was wrong, but I also knew what would happen to me if I ratted him out. I've seen what happens to people who try to do the right thing in the ntcc during conferences. It doesn't matter if you are right or wrong. The person I was keeping books for might have been jacked up, but so would I have. We've all seen it happen in the ntcc so many of us kept our mouths shut. I was asked in a board meeting by Davis why I did not turn this guy in and I said, that I had no witnesses and it had been shared by Davis himself in a conference not to bring an accusation against any of his ministers without two or three witnesses.
When I told Davis about what Rudy was doing in the Servicemen's home, what do you think his reaction was? Pop Gaylord came through and comforted me saying, Brother none of this is your fault. Mom and Pop loved me like a brother and assured me that God still loved me in spite of all the manipulation and abuse that I endured. Do you think Davis reacted in the same way? Nope. He asked me if I had been tested for aids. I should have asked him if he had been tested for aids, because their was no telling how many times he cheated on his wife. When the Rudy's replacement came along, (his name was Beja), he was on the opposite end of the spectrum than Rudy. He was going over to certain of the brothers houses that didn't live in the home and he was watching "Faces of Death" with them on TV. I called Davis and told him and in turn for my honesty, I got kicked out of the home. It wasn't until I got promoted to E-5 and started bringing bus loads of people to church that he allowed me to move back into the home.
People do not have a voice in the ntcc and there is much fear for doing what is right. Any one that has been around Davis for any length of time knows that you keep your mouth shut most of the time and you don't bring any type of accusation against his hirelings. He won't stand for anyone questioning him, and he also won't stand for anyone questioning his hirelings. He will however listen and use things against people when it suites him.
Has anyone in the leadership of NTCC has ever said something similar like the following at anytime regarding abuses:
ReplyDelete1. We are all truly saddened by what happened to you. We feel that by what happened to you we failed you as your spiritual leaders. We recognize that we will stand before God and have to give an account for what was done in his name.
2. We are saddened that this tragedy has caused you no longer to be able to fellowship with you no longer. Your presence will be sorely missed at our table.
3. We recognize that our failures have caused you to lose your faith in God. We are but weak, sinful men. We are weak like Peter was in Paul's epistle to the Galatians. Please do not use our sins as a reason to turn your back on Christ. Jesus knew that sin would be inside his Church (see Matthew Chapter 18). If you do plan on leaving then we leave this warning for you: (http://youtu.be/t5caksOsm88)
I am just wondering if at anytime, there has been a public apology via the internet, the Trumpet, or over pulpit regarding any issue.
No, they are narcissists. They do not apologize or take responsibility for their actions.
ReplyDeleteYou brought up some really good points, Anonymous. Normal churches or people with decency would be appalled by this type of behavior taking place within their own ministry. All three of the responses that you have listed would be appropriate. These correct responses defy the true culture in the ntcc and what the leadership is all about.
ReplyDeleteThere are a few Pastor's in the ntcc that I believe are sincere and their response would be similar to what you have shared. They also are living in fear and are very afraid to step out of line. The ntcc teaches that if there is a failure in your ministry that you need to look in the mirror first. I've heard Davis teach this with my own ears. But the overwhelming majority of ministers in the ntcc and especially the board members and those who are highly esteemed in the ntcc will never take responsibility for their actions, nor will they admit to any wrong doing. You will find no transparency or accountability among them. They will not repent the way David did in the old testament and they will not confess their faults one to another as James gave commandment.
The worst part of it is not their unwillingness to repent or admit their faults and sins but the treatment of the victims that they have violated. We find in every case of ntcc abuse, that the victims are blamed for the sin of the minister who violated their office and sexually preyed upon the weaker in faith. We also find that in every case of sexual abuse that has been reported, the victim is not believed and the victim is shunned when seeking help from the higher ups in the ntcc. Olson has always played a huge part in the covering up of Davis's sins and the victims of his abuse. Everyone worships the ground he walks on and they refuse to believe that he is capable of the iniquities that he has committed. According to the account of other victims, Davis is a predator just like Ralph St. Clair. Davis gets a free pass and perhaps Ralph will too. Their wives are guilty also because they know about it all and say nothing. The victims are trampled all over and they are left for dead. If half of the victims of ntcc abuse would find their voice and speak out it would support the few that have spoken out and it also would help those who have suffered and are holding it all inside for fear.
Davis can't remember the last time he sinned but there are many women that were in the ntcc that do remember his sins. There are many others that think they have gotten away with their abuse, but God sees it all and one day they will give an answer for the ones they hurt.
An appeal to all victims of abuse: We know there are others out there and we know what you went through is horrible. We want you to know that we are here to help you and not blame you or accuse you. There has been enough of that, already. Sometimes it helps to share your experiences with people who understand and with people who have endured abuse. If we or Julie can help you in anyway that is what we are here for.
ReplyDeleteMost of all we want to convey to you that above all we know that God is a God of grace and love. He is much more willing to forgive than the ntcc leaders would want you to know. They don't ever want you to be free from the burdens of your wrecked and abused past. But God actually does want you to be free from it all. The first step to recovery is to realize that it is not your fault. Even if you were a part of something wrong that was instigated by the man that was supposed to be responsible for caring for your soul, God does not want you to carry it around for the rest of your life, nor does he want you to live in guilt for the actions of a spiritually sick and perverted man. You are important and your life has meaning and their are people who actually care about you.
We also know that there are many out there who have lost their way. People have been turned off by religion and the so called wolves in sheep's clothing that misrepresented the gospel. Whatever stage you are in, it is so important for you to forgive yourself and realize that you are loved and valued as a person. Remember that we were all members of the same cult and we all have suffered wrongfully in one way or another. We have this in common. We all can help each other. We have been greatly inspired by Julie and the faith she has shared.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteHas anyone in the leadership of NTCC has ever said something similar like the following at anytime regarding abuses:
Sad to say no one for any case has ever done a public apology.
When no one that claims to be a Christian apologize it leads the victim to believe they are the guilty one even most so when they are told they caused it all.
They tell you when they do the abuse to you if you don't comply you aren't obey God but yet publicly humiliated you when you speak of it to others.
If the abuse is pleasing God why must it be a secret?
Anon I really appreciate your comments.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA said....When I told Davis about what Rudy was doing in the Servicemen's home, what do you think his reaction was? Pop Gaylord came through and comforted me saying, Brother none of this is your fault. Mom and Pop loved me like a brother and assured me that God still loved me in spite of all the manipulation and abuse that I endured.
ReplyDeleteYes Pop was always one to care for the hurting. Mom Gaylord was like that as well.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA said.....Rudy was a manipulator and a predator of the worse sort. He preached hell fire and brimstone as well as anyone to include Ashmore. He preached salvation and many people received ntcc style salvation and many moved into the Servicemen's Home. In fact we had 17 brothers living in the home. Rudy used scriptures to justify his feelings toward other men and he used his position to gain sexual access to them. I know that many will not understand this, but is very much the same as what Sandusky did at Penn State. I was 19 years old, which is legally considered to be an adult. However, I grew up with an inferiority complex, because my step father drilled it into my head that I was stupid. I had no confidence in myself, but believed that the ntcc was the only hope for me.
ReplyDeleteThey used the pure desire of people to always be right before God to fill their ungodly wishes. Thankfully God sees people's true heart desires when they are really longing to please Him.
Hugs,
Julie
Don and Ange said...
ReplyDeleteAn appeal to all victims of abuse: We know there are others out there and we know what you went through is horrible. We want you to know that we are here to help you and not blame you or accuse you. There has been enough of that, already. Sometimes it helps to share your experiences with people who understand and with people who have endured abuse. If we or Julie can help you in anyway that is what we are here for.
Yes I ask for the same. If you come forward you will help yourself and many others. Please don't let my story stand alone. I am here for you. I understand the burden you carry so do Don and Ange. When you share your story they will treat you with more love and care then you can imagine.
You are important! Don't ever forget it.
Hugs,
Julie
You know Anon really shows the possibilities of who he is b/c like Julie said with him using the word "crap" and also using "BS" - the person who is the COWARDLY "Anon" is likely one of those who preaches from behind the pulpit that these are cuss words and fill-in words, etc. However, I heard you little Mike once say BS. I don't care. I really don't. It won't send a person to hell - except your pit of hell called ntcc. It's a borg member who's playing anon there and I'd lay odds if I were to bet that it is.
ReplyDeleteI'm just saying . Come out and play with your NAME on ANON. If not, go away and go away mad!
I was watching a special on TLC about the FLDS Cult. They are a very strict sect of Mormons. Their Prophet, Warren Jeffs is in prison now where he belongs but the cult is still in control of the entire town of Colorado City, Arizona.
ReplyDeleteAs I watch this unfold it reminds me of the NTCC in so many ways. They dress just like the ntcc (Huge Red Flag). They manipulate their members just like the ntcc. They have sex with minors just like the ntcc. They own lots of real estate just like the ntcc.
The FLDS owns every single house in Colorado City, AZ and they use that power to evict people if they rebel against them and they also have all kinds of rules associated with living on their property. It's just like living in a Servicemen's Home or living in the Bonco. If you are a grown adult and you have to have permission to have someone visit you in the home that you pay rent to stay in, you are sadly in a cult and you don't even know it. If you are a grown adult and you pay to stay in a Servicemen's Home or live on NTCC owned property and you have to tell your pastor, church leader or servicemen's home director what time you are going to be home and where you are going to be when you are not at home, you my friend are in a cult. If you pay rent, home offering, dorm fees or whatever you wish to call them and as a grown adult you are told that as a condition of your housing agreement that you have to attend every church service, bible study, soul winning event, prayer meeting and Fellowship, then you are in a cult. If you were a free man or woman you would not have force fed ultimatums attached to every second of life and you would do live a Christian life out of choice rather than obligation.
You were all given brains for a reason. You were not given your own brain so someone else could do all of your thinking for you. You need to think your way out of this bad situation that you have volunteered to be a part of. If you step out in faith and decide to use your own brain to make the decisions that govern your life and your Christianity, you will find that life is much more rewarding. You also will find that even in your Christian life freedom to make the right decisions without being interfered with brings spiritual independence and satisfaction in your every day walk with God.
Stop letting the child molesting freak show run your life. The people you are following (to heaven, supposedly) have never done anything of their own merit. They have achieved the level of success that they have in life by requiring you to pay them and subject yourself to them to the point where you don't have a life of your own. What do you think Kekel or Davis do all day while you are at work? What do you think they do while you are out soul winning? What do you think they do when they leave town? You don't have the slightest clue what they do, yet you will give every dime you have to them as they get richer and richer.
If you are a grown adult and you have to have permission to have someone visit you in the home that you pay rent to stay in, you are sadly in a cult and you don't even know it.
ReplyDeleteMan this brings so many memories to my mind. I remember in order for any family to visit while growing up we had to first and ask permission. Then if they came they had to agree to be at every church service and bible study even if they were not staying in our home. I remember one time some family were passing through and wanted directions to our house. My father called but was unable to get a hold of Davis so he called this family member back to say it wouldn't work out to meet up with him.
I also remember in one of the servicemen's home a group of guys after the service wanted to go out to a restaurant and my father told them they couldn't go for God wanted them to have a prayer meeting instead. The group of men: A. were adults B. Had just come off the field right before church and were hungry wanting to relax.
Something is wrong with this picture.
While in NTCC I had to have permission to call family members that were in NTCC. Sometimes I would be denied without a given reason.
Hugs,
Julie
I was just thinking about those weekly reports that every minister had to give. When I was pregnant with my son my ex-husband had got off work later and it was a Monday night. I was in hard labor. He still had to get his weekly report in the mail. We had learned in the past they didn't care went I was in the hospital with complications it was no excuse for him not to have the report out on time. So he began filling out the report.
ReplyDeleteI told him honey we have to go. He finished and we left to head to the post office first. Then we took the roughly 45 minute (give or take a few) drive to the hospital. This is what they push people to do.
The leaders believe that a piece of paper is more important than someone's safety and life. They have no compassion.
Hugs,
Julie
Why do you give money to these people?
ReplyDelete"All Christians pay tithe and give in the offering"
Why these people?
"They are the only ones who preach the truth."
Which truth?
"That you have to live right to get to heaven."
Mormons will tell you that. As a matter of fact false religions will tell you what you must to prepare for the after life.
"You have to do what the Bible says."
Is NTCC the only church that teaches that the Holy Scripture is the only sufficient, certain, and infallible rule of all saving knowledge, faith, and obedience?
"No, but people need to stop sinning."
Is NTCC the only church that teaches that such is the provision which God hath made through Christ in the covenant of grace for the preservation of believers unto salvation; that although there is no sin so small but it deserves damnation; yet there is no sin so great that it shall bring damnation on them that repent; which makes the constant preaching of repentance necessary?
"We must live a holy life."
Is NTCC the only church that believes there is also by the work of the Holy Spirit a progressive sanctification by which the state of the believer is brought closer to the standing the believer positionally enjoys through justification? Also through obedience to the Word of God and the empowering of the Holy Spirit, the believer is able to live a life of increasing holiness in conformity to the will of God, becoming more and more like our Lord Jesus Christ.
"I look at my leaders and see how God has blessed them and hope that God will bless me by my obedience."
How has he blessed them?
"They have nice homes and cars"
1 Timothy 6:6-8 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out. 8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
"What do want me to do? Have a kook store mentality?"
No, but your leaders seem to be making a lot of money from the tithes being paid in.
"You are just jealous"
Was Peter? And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
"How dare you say that!"
Let me get this straight. The reason you are giving money to NTCC is because you want to be prosperous. It has nothing to do with supporting missionary activity around world. You are more worried about being "blessed by God" than about people who need to be reached with the Gospel.
To some it all up, they seem to have an answer for every question. The answers that you get from an ntcc hireling will often not sufficiently address the specificity of the question, in which case you will get an answer that has nothing to do with the question. For instance:
ReplyDeleteQ: Why is it Kekel, that you live in a huge mansion and drive cars that are wastefully expensive and have ridiculous amenities and furnishings in your own personal house, while many of the churches in your organization are ramshackle buildings with oil puking junkers parked in front and people wearing thrift store clothing inside worshiping a God that owns the cattle on a thousand hills?
A: Your just jealous.
Correct Answer: While God owns the cattle on a thousand hills, you have designated your selves to be heirs to all the riches that your cult brings in. You are the beneficiaries of vast riches that you have not labored for nor do you have a biblical claim to any of it. You have convinced the brainwashed masses that they are giving cheerfully to God, while you have taken advantage of them and have made heaps of money off of those you have conned out of their own futures.
Oh, they have an answer if you ask them about the Mormons, the Baptists, the Catholics, the Seventh Day Adventists, the Oneness or any other religion. They have a scripture for each religion, but they ignore the scriptures that clearly apply to their own false doctrine. Other religions do the same thing. If you were to go to a Jehovah's Witness church and tell them that you attended an ntcc service, they would tell you why you shouldn't attend and they would have scriptures to convince you.
For instance:
Brainwashed Jehovah's Witness confesses to JW elders that he went to an NTCC service.
Question from brainwashed JW member to brainwashed JW Elder:
Q: Why Can't I go to a church like the NTCC?
A: Because they are brainwashed cult members and they live contrary to the bible.
Q: How does the ntcc live contrary to the bible?
A: The bible says "Forbid not to marry" and they will absolutely tell you that you can't marry this one or that one. They do not promote or allow many of their members to marry who they want to.
A: The bible says honor your mother and father and they will not allow you to have your loved ones visit you on their property that you are paying them to live in. Just ask MDR. He was offered a nice Bonco house, but he was told that relatives would not be welcome to visit him if he moved into one of those houses.
A: The bible has guidelines for divorce and the ntcc ignores them by allowing members to divorce and remarry different spouses while conducting the ceremonies for them and therefore they promote living in adultery.
A. The bible admonishes Husbands to love their wives and children, but the ntcc treats women like objects and encourages many types of physical and sexual abuse, while harboring the abusers and ignoring the victims.
Are you beginning to see a pattern here? HELLO?
I have some things that I would like to say, But I'm not going to do it right now. I will wait until all the posts are in that Julie is going to post, and then I will make my comments. I have read everything that has been written a couple of times, and I will probably read everything a couple of more times again. I have to admit that there are some things that are bothering me about some of the things that have been said, but I'm going to wait until all the information is in. Mark
ReplyDeleteIf you leave a comment expressing doubts about Julies testimony, it probably will not be published on this blog. We have read through Julie's story and found it to be consistent all the way through. We also find the content to be alarming but true. We have no reason to disbelieve what she has shared with us. Now I will say that we are not pouring over it everyday looking for inconsistencies. We have no reason to. What Julie has shared supports what many of us knew and suspected.
ReplyDeleteIn this case, the burden of proof falls on the ntcc, and as usual they are silent. We know what the ntcc is capable of and we know that it's leaders are also corrupt. This is not the first time that someone has come forward and shared that Davis sexually abused them.
Joan St. Clair has admitted that she knows what has happened. They have not made any attempt to deny this, nor has anyone in the ntcc. The only activity you will ever get from the ntcc or their sympathizers is a credibility attack on the victim. The ntcc has a history of sweeping things like this under the rug.
So unless you have some strong evidence that this never happened, which you don't, don't expect us to publish your comment, which by the way you said you were not going to leave until all the comments of Julie were ended.
We are an anti ntcc blog for a reason. The ntcc has a long history of abuse and there are many that can attest to that. We are not going to hold ourselves to the same double standards that the ntcc claims to follow. They say two or three witnesses. Well, Nathan only had one witness and that was God. If the ntcc had a spotless record and there was not a pattern of sexual abuse and the harboring of predators, than perhaps we would have reason to doubt. But this thing was not done in a corner. There are many other testimonies that support Julie's testimony of abuse. The ntcc has left a trail of broken lives.
We are going to side with the victims every time and not with the rich hypocrites that have conned people out of their money and have abused so many over the years. In the past, whenever the ntcc has gone public, they have done more to damage their own credibility, (which is at an all time low right now) than any of us could possibly do. I've shared the truth and there are many out there that question me. I don't have any witnesses that will verify every part of my testimony, but I know it's true and so does God.
Abuse victims are afraid for many reasons to come forward. When they do find the courage to share their stories, I am not here to shoot them down and find fault with them. People did that to me, but like Julie, I knew what happened and I shared it anyway.
There are many others that have shared things that we can't publish because the people involved have family members inside the ntcc or they have been threatened or they just can't deal with the shame of what they went through.
So if you get to the point where you think you have it all figured out, you better come with some hard evidence, or we will not give you the time of day on this blog.
One more thing to consider. Do you believe or not? Sometimes people nitpick because that's what they have been taught. In the ntcc, we were taught to believe every single word that rolled off of the *MOG's tongue. We were not allowed to dispute any of it, or we would be singled out for causing division among the brethren. They had so many rules to protect the MOG. 2 or 3 witnesses is biblical if bringing an accusation, but there are exceptions in the bible and in real life. I've seen accusations brought forward by one in the ntcc and if it was convenient for them to believe the person than they would.
ReplyDeleteDo you believe that St. Clair lost his license for six months or do you think that a person would just make that up? Do you think that she is making everything up? Why would she do that? She has nothing to gain. If she ever does take legal action it will be an uphill battle with no guarantee of a monetary award but you don't have to read between the lines to find what Julie's real motive is. She cares about others and doesn't want to see them suffer like she had to.
I hate it when people are wishy washy. So many people are so quick to side with the ntcc, when they don't even have all the facts. They are the ones that have lied over and over again. They are the ones who have destroyed peoples lives. They are the ones who have ignored the victims and promoted the predators. I get so sick of people saying, "well I've moved on" or question us for being 'bitter' and 'angry'. Someone has to stand up against these narcissistic, lying abusers.
Somebody come on here from either side and show us what overall good has come from the ntcc. Share with us how that your church has reached out within it's community and actually done the things that Jesus did. You all laugh at and despise the poor. You operate for profit and have no problems leaving people in poverty for your own gain. Show me an ntcc church that gets people saved, genuinely saved and does not use them for their money. Show us an ntcc church where the MOG is a servant of all, and where he really loves the people that he is supposed to be ministering to. If the ntcc hireling really loves the ones in his congregation, he would never send them to a bible school, (or institution), where they will be taught to exploit people for their money by someone like Kekel who has made his fortune off of weak minds and strong backs.
Go ahead and stick up for this bunch of crooks and criminals if you want to, but make up your mind which side of the fence you are on. Don't be like MB, who now attends an ntcc church but still tries to suck up to all the Xers. Don't be like LT who sat in her pickup truck and watched her boyfriend beat a dear and precious lady on her front porch and then tries to act Super spiritual around all the others.
MOG - Man of God
There is a saying “Where there is smoke there is fire.” When I think of fire it brings to mind when I see a fire I always feel the need to offer up a prayer. “God watch over anyone in that fire and if there is one lost in that fire may they found and saved.” (Not always those exact words but always a prayer for those involved)
ReplyDeleteThere are many aspects to think of involving fire. Some just hear of the fire. Some see the smoke. Some maybe in the building and end up smelling like smoke. Some may see the fire. Others may experience the fire. Then there the ones that are burnt by the fire on many levels. There is one thing that doesn’t change there was or is a fire.
Some that see a fire they stop to just watch it. Some ignore it feeling someone else will get the help needed. Others want to offer aid. Then there are those that are willing to do everything it takes to stop the fire. You just can’t say it is a little fire don’t worry it will go away on its own.
If you have ever seen areas of a building that only experienced the smoke you will know even smoke can have it lingering effects.
The news of a fire spreads. No one says the fire was a secret don’t tell anyone. Many times when the fire is very severe and things were lost. People wants to help. Sometimes people can think they have only a little help to offer why do anything but the fire survivor can say every little bit helps. Even a personal story of tragedy from a survivor can give a burnt victim hope.
Then we have the little fire in the grass. Oh it little and no one needs to know about it. Little fires can become forest fires.
You say Julie what in the world are you getting at here?
With NTCC some only hear of them. I say to them please stay away I don’t want you hurt. Some see only the smoke. Please don’t go any closer for beyond that smoke is fire. Some may have the smell of smoke. I say to them if you are in get out for smoke can be just as damaging as the fire. If you see the fire, you may not have realized yet but you have blisters for you have been unknowingly burnt while doing what you think is your duty in the middle of the fire. Others may have experience the fire. You may think it is your fault for experiencing the fire for you saw the smoke. I want to say to you. You deserve that fresh air outside. You can rise in beauty from the very ashes you think is your fault.
You may have been one that has been burnt very severely by the fire of NTCC. You may be so wounded. You may be bitter and even angry at God. I want to say to you. God understands how you feel and yes He still cares for you. I care about you, no matter how you view life right now. You don’t have to carry your pain alone.
You may have been with all your heart wanting to do the will of God. Now you know it wasn’t God’s will to give it all to them and you are so overcome with guilt. I say to you “it is not your fault”. I say it again “It is NOT your fault”. If this is you, you have the right to say right now “It is not my fault”.
You may say what I experienced a little fire. What good is it to share? Your story can help fight big fires. Just like in a forest fire, everyone is important in stopping it from spreading. In fact, not one person in a forest fire ever hears you weren’t needed you help was pointless. Just like in a forest fire there will be aftermath but it can come back and be built again step by step. It takes time for it doesn’t happen instantly but there is hope of recovery with time and patience.
I want to leave you with one last thought.
Nothing can grow where no seed is planted. Our stories are like individual seeds. My seed can only grow one apple tree but with the seeds of everyone we can grow orchard which will stop the starvation of many souls. I am willing to be an apple tree. How about you?
Hugs,
Julie
Thank you for sharing Julie. The NTCC reminds me also of a burning building. I think that there are lots of folks sleeping that don't realize they are in danger. There are also many folks out there that will say, don't warn them for they have chosen to live in this building and they won't listen.
ReplyDeleteWhat if it was you sleeping in that building? When I was in Korea, I woke up one morning to press my Class A uniform so I could catch a hop back to the states for leave. While ironing my uniform, I heard a very loud explosion. Within seconds I heard cries of people that were burning to death in the fire. I looked out the window and there was a house down the street that was totally engulfed in flames. The people didn't have a chance. There was a family of five in the house and there was a natural gas leak. The house filled with gas overnight and early in the morning someone flipped a light switch and the spark ignited the gas. There was nothing anyone could do.
In many cases there is still time for folks to escape, but they are sleeping and unaware that they are in a burning building. What kind of people would we be if we did not try to wake you up and get you out of that burning building? You might think that what we are saying is ridiculous. There are many survivors that have been burned by the ntcc. Why would true Christianity burn so many people? Why is it that so many folks that are still in are just going through the motions? There are also lots of survivors that don't want to get anywhere near the fire again. They've already been burned.
Anyway, in spite of what you may think of us, we care and we will continue to warn people. We truly believe that the ntcc is a burning building. The leadership walks contrary to the words of Christ, and the followers blindly follow. There are people out here that really care. Seeds are being planted.
As Julie shared, God understands, more than anyone. He cares and we care. It's never too late while you still have breath in you.
Deu 18:21
ReplyDeleteAnd if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken?
Deu 18:22
When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
Davis says that he does not remember the last time he sinned. Do you believe him? "RW said that he saw that when the Rapture took place he was in the old St. Louis stadium- (now demolished) with other believers being persecuted- having heads cut off- then a trumpet sounded and the Rapture took place. I recall his other vision of the Octopus with tentacles reaching out to people." Double D.
"Concerning the rapture, Olson declared he also had a dream of it. The trumpet sounded and and The Church started rising up, with Davis First, then the NTCC leadership behind him, then the members...
A perfect cultist-pyramid scheme. 1) davis at point, then leaders, then the rest of the schlubs...that were obedient to Davis and his leaders.
2) The Church and Body of Christ is obviously NTCC. (ALL others being so-called Christians who have compromised with the world)" Robert Derrick
The bible says if the prophet speaks presumptuously and the thing which he speaks comes not to pass Don't be afraid of him. Don't revere him. Davis is a liar with a capital L. Kekel is also a liar with a capital L. Most of the stuff they preach doesn't come to pass, but it's used to keep the brainwashed suckers living in fear.
God isn't going to make up a list of rules and have someone like Davis preach that if you break those rules you are rebelling against the man of God and God himself, and scare you into thinking that you are going to die and go to hell, only to have Kekel come along and change all the rules so that he and his son can break those rules and set a new precedent for the brain washed masses to follow.
Jesus isn't going to speak out against adultery and divorce and then change his mind about the subject and allow two people that are married to each other in the ntcc, to divorce and remarry other people that are also in the ntcc, so that now you got four people living in adultery whose marriages were performed by ministers in the ntcc and all four people still attend the ntcc. Come on people, wake up! The reason we are not afraid to speak out against Davis is that he is a big time fraud and he has been playing you all like a fiddle since he started the organization back in 69. The bible says not to be afraid of them so why would you follow them? Keep paying your tithes and offerings to them if you want, but when that trumpet does sound don't be surprised if your feet don't leave the ground.
1 Ti 3:1-7 "This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
ReplyDeleteA bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil."
How many of you think that Kekel is qualified to be the dean of an ntcc bible school? Let's examine his qualifications.
1. Is Kekel blameless? Does he live his life in such a way that he irreproachable? Have people within the influence of Kekel's ministry been blamed or accused of wrong doing for the very things that Kekel gets away with. Do Kekel's standards apply to others but not himself or his family?
2. Is Kekel of Good behavior? Many will say no. He does not carry himself in such a way that brings honor to God. He put's people down in a way that is demeaning to them. He refers to children as being filthy and evil, throwing hissy fits in the cookie isle.
3. Is Kekel given to hospitality? Not according to many. He once got right in DR's face and said, "What are you looking at?" Davis was the same way. Rebuking Maria Moreno for looking at horses. That's not given to hospitality.
A bible school student was left stranded on the side of the road because another bible school student was not allowed to pick him up without Kekel's permission. Is that hospitality? No it's stupidity!
4. Is Kekel greedy of filthy lucre? How many times has he seen his brother in need and shut up his bowels of compassion? How do you live in complete and total luxury when many of the people that are making you rich are living below the poverty line? Kekel is greedy of filthy lucre and Davis is too.
Continued.....
continued....
ReplyDelete5. Does Kekel rule his own house well, having his children in subjection with all gravity? No he does not. Kekel only has one son and he does whatever he wants. He is not in subjection. Kekel can not even control Tanya, but that's no surprise because Tanya is a spoiled brat. Tanya the adopted or illegitimate Filipina has always broken the rules while growing up and even as an adult with her tight and lascivious clothing. I remember a girl got jacked up to the point of tears, because she wore a bow in her hair at bible school, meanwhile Tanya was cutting her hair, wearing jewelry and tight clothing and rebelling against all the rules. Kekel and Davis are definitely unqualified to be bishops, let alone ministers or even Christians. If a man knows not how to rule his own house how can he take care of the church of God?
6. Was Kekel a novice? Let's examine this qualification. Kekel never pioneered a church, he never was a Servicemen's home director, never was he a missionary, but he was called to be an administrator. Kekel has been a bolo all his life, but only because he married the daughter of Davis was he exalted to a position of control and influence over multitudes of followers.
7. Does Kekel have a good report towards them that are without? Not even close. When you have thousands of people that you have stabbed in the back to get to a place of power, you will fall into reproach and the snare of the devil every time.
Well, Kekel, it appears that you fail miserably in every category. It's too bad there is not a category for lying, cheating and conning people out of their money. You would win that one hands down; well you might come in second place to you're father in law before you.
Wow, that certainly sums it up biblically and succinctly.... amen, so be it! They have disqualified themselves...
ReplyDeleteThat's not all. The ntcc leaders, especially Davis and Kekel live contrary to many other scriptures also, like
ReplyDelete1 Tim 6:6
"But godliness with contentment is great gain."
Kekel and Davis are never content. They have never been satisfied or content. A $300,000.00 mansion is not enough. They can only live in a mansion so long and they become discontent. They then will take the money that they have made off of the tithe paying masses and upgrade into a bigger mansion, Because everyone knows that a $500,000.00 mansion can only keep the MOG content for so long. They do the same with their cars and their wives cars and their home furnishings. They are insatiable and will never be satisfied. When Davis croaks they will most likely connect the two mansions and that will probably be their next upgrade, because everyone knows that their current $750,000.00+ mansion is just not glorious enough until you connect it to Davis's 1.1 million dollar manision.
The sad thing is that all of the brain washed, mind numbed assimilated pawns will continue to follow them because they have not used their own brains in so many years that they will continue to believe whatever lies Kekel tells them. Kekel cranks out lies like a mustard pedal at a weenie roast. But people will not use the bible to measure Kekel but they will conform to Kekel's lies because they really don't believe the bible like they say they do.
How many times did we used to share that we were a bible believing church? We all used to believe that lie but we never measured ourselves or our so called church leaders to the bible. What we did is we took large portions of scripture out of the bible and ripped them up and threw them away. We took the heart out of 1 Tim Chapter 6 and trashed it because we didn't want to believe that Kekel could not be content with food and rainment. We didn't want to believe that Davis or Kekel being rich would allow them to fall into temptation and snares and into many foolish and hurtful lusts or that they would be drowned in destruction and perdition. That scripture couldn't possibly apply to Davis or Kekel, so lets just rip it out of the bible and forget all about it.
After all it's not possible that the love of money could be the root of all evil, now could it? There's no way we could possibly believe that Davis or Kekel have coveted after money and erred from the faith and pierced themselves through with many sorrows? No way. That scripture could not possibly apply to Davis and Kekel. Hey, I got an idea! Let's just ignore all the scriptures that they ignore and then we can feel comfortable in our religion, and we can subscribe to all of their lies that aren't even in the bible. We can believe that the ntcc is a special and chosen people above all other churches and that we are the only ones going to heaven because every other doctrine but ours is false and we only ignore the scriptures that our leaders ignore. It's got to be revealed to you.
Bunch of hypocrites!
Sorry Kris, What you wrote was too flaky to publish. Figure out what you believe in and stand up for it. You can't have it both ways. We are not here to promote the ntcc agenda nor as a platform for you to investigate if a victim of abuse can be believed or not. In the past you have vacillated back and forth. You published a lot of really good articles and then asked all the bloggers to delete them because you allowed others to influence you.
ReplyDeleteWe have no axe to grind with you or anyone else out there. There are some folks that want to use this blog for the wrong reasons and we just can't let you do it. You are more than welcome to start your own blog and tell everyone how you feel.
We have prayed for folks to come forward and we have finally found someone with the courage not only to share her past, as horrifying as it was, but with the strength to stand up for others who have suffered. I was the victim of a very tragic life in a cult, and there are many who do not believe my story and many that have disputed much of what I shared. I know it's real, and more importantly God knows that I have shared actually happened. We also believe that Julie's testimony is true.
The ntcc leadership has never come forward with the exception of Phil Kinson in an extremely lame attempt to cast doubt on the accounts of his trips to the whore house in Japan. The only time they will come forward is to discredit those who they have already damaged. We have no reason to disbelieve Julie and nobody has even come close to casting doubt in our minds. We have given a pretty good chunk of our lives to studying and researching people that have left cults and what they have been through. We are here for them, not for those who want to advance their own agendas. Find some other blog or start your own, but we reserve the right to defend those who never had any rights in the ntcc. Again we do not hate you nor are we saying you are not welcome to comment on this blog, but we reserve the right to decide what gets published and what is constructive.
Unless you are made new creatures in Christ Jesus, you never can give thanks to God always for ALL things.- C.H. Spurgeon
ReplyDeleteUnless you pay tithes and give in the offering, you can drive your GEO Metro while I drive my Cadillac (or BMW).-NTCC
Well said, Anonymous!
ReplyDelete1 Pet 5:2
ReplyDelete"Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;"
It seems like constraint and filthy lucre go hand in hand. In the ntcc, nothing is done willingly, although they will say things like "No one put a gun to your head" or "If you don't like it here pack your suit case, there's the door, here's a quarter to call a cab".
If you want to be a member in good standing you are constrained to give them quite a bit of your hard earned money. To you it is a sacrifice but to them it is filthy lucre. The common person going through bible school has to get a job that allows them to attend every function that they are constrained to attend. You don't willingly attend all of the services, bible studies, Classes, soul winning, prayer meetings and required fellowship events. You are constrained to do these things and if you miss one event, you will lose your good standing with them. You will also pay them a pretty significant chunk of change over the years so they can live large right in front of you. While you are eating ramen dinners and buying your clothing at a Kook store, they are trying to decide which $50,000 car that they would like to purchase with the filthy lucre that you were constrained to give them. When is the last time they added a new car to their collection while your oil puking junker barely gets you around?
Just about every one of the ntcc preachers, I've ever known, were constrained to preach and to enforce rules. Peter was talking about the ministry but willingness to live for Christ is more excellent than constraint. Giving out of a willing heart cheerfully is much more rewarding than doing it out of constraint. When you place ultimatums on every aspect of a Christian's life you get a bunch of people that are constrained to keep the law as if the dispensation of Grace never occurred. It works out great for the money grubbing, hypocritical ntcc hireling, who is greedy of filthy lucre and wants a bunch of mind numbed robots to follow them and do whatever they say.
1 Cor 12 talks about love being a more excellent way and chapter 13 breaks it down for all to understand. Jesus was definitely not into filthy lucre like the ntcc leadership is. He never once constrained anyone to pay their tithe to him so he could go out shopping for mansions to live in. You will not find any of the New Testament Apostles or ministers living like Kekel or Davis. You also will not the ntcc leaders doing much out of a willing or kind heart. There will always be things that you are constrained to do, but they feel no obligation to lead by example. It's called "Double Standards". You are constrained to follow all of their rules while they willingly spend your money on themselves.
DNA said...3. Is Kekel given to hospitality? Not according to many. He once got right in DR's face and said, "What are you looking at?" Davis was the same way. Rebuking Maria Moreno for looking at horses. That's not given to hospitality.
ReplyDeleteA bible school student was left stranded on the side of the road because another bible school student was not allowed to pick him up without Kekel's permission. Is that hospitality? No it's stupidity!
I remember being in the bible school. One day I was needing to go the store for female products. I asked one of the ladies if she could take me since I couldn't wait until my husband was home. She was like yes just we need to call Kekel. It wasn't a call I was looking forward to make for I knew I would have to tell him why I needed to go.
I tried placing the call a few times. Each time I didn't get a hold of anyone. I was getting despite. She was new to bible school and she finally said, Let's go I am sure Kekel will understand the emergency he has a wife.
I was nervous but didn't feel like there was any other way so we went to the store. I went to class that night and I guess Kekel finally got word about me going to the store. After class I was called into the office for a meeting. I told Kekel before I meet with you can I find my ride and let her know I will be in the office. I don't want her to think I left. He said No we having this meeting now. It is because of you this meeting is called.
The meeting began I was reminder I am an example to all the new students I known the rules for years. I shouldn't be so rebellious. and so on the conversation went.
We got out of the meeting and going outside I realized everyone was gone. I turned to Kekel and asked if I could use a phone to call my husband for a ride. He said No the office is already locked for the night. I stood there not knowing what to do. Kekel chuckled as he got into his car to drive across the street and said, It would be pretty funny if you were still standing here tomorrow morning.
I finally went out to the road and began to hope my then husband would figure out to come looking for me.
One of the guys from the dorms was outside for some reason and saw me just standing there. He walked over to me said I know I am not suppose to talk to you but I was wondering why you were out here alone?
I explained I missed my ride. He said I am new here so I am not sure of everything but can't you knock on one of these houses here to use the phone? I told him no that is against the rules. He said what are you going to do? I said, Hope my husband shows up.
I don't know his name but that man stood there until my husband did come looking for me. He said I don't know all the rules but I don't think you should be out here in the dark alone. The only thing he made sure of is that no one would find him standing too close to me.
Do you think God truly would have a Man of God leave me in need?
Hugs,
Julie
Photon said....They have disqualified themselves...
ReplyDeleteYes they have disqualified themselves. They preach the phrase "Actions speak louder than words" NTCC's actions do speak louder than their words. They say one thing yet do another.
Hugs,
Julie
Anonymous said...Unless you pay tithes and give in the offering, you can drive your GEO Metro while I drive my Cadillac (or BMW).-NTCC
ReplyDeleteAnonymous you make me think of the time when Davis was getting a new Cadillac while at Holly Hills in St. Louis and he gave Olson his old Cadillac. After church everyone was sent outside to see these "men of God" get into their Cadillacs for the first time. To congratulate them on what they had earned for their faithfulness to God.
I am not against people earning nice things but the key word is "earning" not by lying plus stealing.
There is a saying "You want respect show respect."
They have people that fear them this is not true respect. True respect must be earned.
Hugs,
Julie
For those who follow on mobile devices, or who cannot see the recent comments widget, there have been some new comments on the Tour NTCC Part 4 Thread. Click here to see them.
ReplyDelete1. Is Kekel blameless? Does he live his life in such a way that he irreproachable? Have people within the influence of Kekel's ministry been blamed or accused of wrong doing for the very things that Kekel gets away with. Do Kekel's standards apply to others but not himself or his family?
ReplyDeleteStandards always change to fit what they wanted for Grant. I remember when the campground first was being used for their meetings you couldn't bring your child on the campground unless they were over 12 years. Davis said that the children destroyed the spirit at the conference. It left parents putting their children wherever they could find a place. Some people would bring their children and they would take turns watching a large group of children for the different services in a hotel room. It was a nightmare for me the first time I brought my son to one of those "torcher sessions" conferences. My son was 4 months old and I was nursing him. I would have to leave a crying baby to be in their eyes right with God. This same conference Grant stayed in the lodge with his parents. They had someone care for him during the meetings on the campground. They had people that would come get Tanya if the baby needed her.
When Grant turned 4 years old they decided they didn't want him being babysat during the meetings so all of a sudden the rule changed that children 4 and above could come on the campground to the meetings.
At first it wasn't going to change but Tanya threw such a royal fit Davis gave her what she wanted.
I heard Davis say it was pressed upon his heart to have it over the age of 12. Hmmm Davis was it the same one that twisted your arm to change it to 4 and above.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA said.....One that ruleth well his own house
ReplyDeleteIs Kekel blameless? Does he live his life in such a way that he irreproachable? Have people within the influence of Kekel's ministry been blamed or accused of wrong doing for the very things that Kekel gets away with. Do Kekel's standards apply to others but not himself or his family?
This makes me think of when I was living in Washington when my son was young. Grant and my son were in the same class. Now all two year olds as we know have their moments. Tanya would bring him into the room. He was generally throwing a fit about something. There was always an excuse for it. Yet I was always insult by her and other leaders if my son acted out.
We would have snack time and Grant would have his personal snack for he didn't like what "other" children would be having. We had to make sure he wasn't in a bad mood when Tanya would come get him or teachers/children would be accused of not caring for the 'man of God's' child. When it was my turn if Grant wouldn't be in a good mood I would get told "Do you think God is please with how you are treating the man of God's child." If a child was biting the parents were chewed out. Oh but when Grant bit a child, it was "What did the other child do to poor Grant for he wouldn't do that without a just cause." I could give many stories of this time period that involved of how Grant got better treatment.
You don't have to have a child to know how stupid this is.
Tanya would brag about Grant over and over. Always trying to compare him to my son. I would get so tired of hearing it but wouldn't say anything. Until one day I got frustrated. She was doing her normal talking and said So what special thing does your child know? I turned and said Thomas speaks Spanish. I think that was the only time Tanya was lost for words with me.
I don't dislike rich people.
I dislike seeing noses in the air. I dislike unfair treatment of the very people who's money the rich our spending.
Hugs,
Julie
DNA said....there have been some new comments on the Tour NTCC Part 4 Thread.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the heads up. I know personally I wouldn't have seen the comments. So glad to see Kerstin's comment on the Tour NTCC Part 4 Thread.
Hugs,
Julie
Julie said:
ReplyDelete"I remember being in the bible school. One day I was needing to go the store for female products. I asked one of the ladies if she could take me since I couldn't wait until my husband was home. She was like yes just we need to call Kekel. It wasn't a call I was looking forward to make for I knew I would have to tell him why I needed to go.
"I tried placing the call a few times. Each time I didn't get a hold of anyone. I was getting despite. She was new to bible school and she finally said, Let's go I am sure Kekel will understand the emergency he has a wife."
DNA said:
I know the answer to this question before I even ask it. Does a bible school student have to ask Kekel for permission to have someone else take them to the store to buy a tampon? I Know this has got to be true because I've heard the rule about riding with others without permission.
This shows you exactly how sick these people are. Kekel is a miserable control freak who needs to experience a few years of hard labor in a penitentiary so he can have a small taste of what he has been dishing out to others for years.
There is no hospitality in Kekel's nature. He is incapable of human decency. What a loser. And Tanya is a loser too, because she supports and endorses him. She loves being a control freak just like her husband and father. I bet Kekel would love to be just like Hitler. He gets off on control. He loves to make people miserable and he has dedicated his life to teaching others to do the same. I've never been around such a bunch of rude and arrogant people as ntcc ministers. Oh, they'll say God bless you brother, and Praise God, while they live to make people squirm and tear people down all the time.
I read this stuff and it just amazes me that there are ministers out there that will send their converts to such a wicked place. If you send people to ntcs, you don't care about them. They are going to be taught to be arrogant and rude and they will be the opposite of the qualifications that a bishop is to possess. You are not helping people and you are not doing what God has called you to do. You are indoctrinating young people into a cult that will tear them down little by little until there is nothing left. In the name of religion you are killing people.
Julie said:
ReplyDelete"We got out of the meeting and going outside I realized everyone was gone. I turned to Kekel and asked if I could use a phone to call my husband for a ride. He said No the office is already locked for the night. I stood there not knowing what to do. Kekel chuckled as he got into his car to drive across the street and said, It would be pretty funny if you were still standing here tomorrow morning."
DNA Said:
This shows the true nature of Kekel. Not only is he a control freak but he also enjoys making people miserable. You wonder why we have a blog. It's amazing that people will attack us as if we are the problem. They'll send us hate mail and comment that we need to get over it and move on with our lives.
The ntcc leadership are a menace to society. Very little is said about what they are doing. We have a few folks that comment from time to time and we appreciate that. Many folks just leave and forget about the people they once loved and cared about. They ignore all of the mistreatment of others that they had witnessed while they were in. They have excepted the ntcc's behavior as normal and many will defend it with their dying breath even though they are no longer considered Christians by the one's that threw them under the bus.
What a bunch of sick freaks. Kekel leaving a young women, a child of God, and a sister, in a dark parking lot and sneering as he gets in his car and saying it would be funny if she were still standing there in the morning. Such hospitality. Such love. Such kindness and neighborly love.
Julie said:
ReplyDelete"Anonymous you make me think of the time when Davis was getting a new Cadillac while at Holly Hills in St. Louis and he gave Olson his old Cadillac. After church everyone was sent outside to see these "men of God" get into their Cadillacs for the first time. To congratulate them on what they had earned for their faithfulness to God."
DNA said:
Yeah, All the brainwashed suckers were sent outside to watch their cult leaders get into their expensive Cadillacs that they purchased for them with their tithes and offerings. This is your reward for all the people you brainwashed. If these people keep giving like this we can by a new Cadillac every year. I bet these people are even stupid enough to buy us mansions. We'll keep stringing them along and make them think they are giving to the program of God while are bank accounts grow bigger and bigger. We'll continue to buy nice things for ourselves while they sacrifice eating Macaroni and cheese dinners and Ramen noodles. These people are so stupid, we'll have them shopping at Kook stores for their clothing and using dish washing rags as feminine products. It's been done and worse in the ntcc.
I bet they get together in their Board Meetings and laugh at how stupid all of their cult members are. They know that if they can keep you poor, that it will benefit them. They aren't pouring your money into anything that's going to benefit you or reach the lost. The lion share of every dollar you give goes to making the insatiable ntcc hypocrites fatter and more comfortable. And you think this is Christianity?
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteWhen Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans, was there any attempt by NTCC to provide support for those affected to include their own church members?
Has NTCC provided Typhoon relief for the Philippines just like this (http://www.mtw.org/Pages/DisasterPhilippines.aspx)?
I am not sure if there is anyone with that information.
Giving to any Charity other than the ntcc is frowned upon by the ntcc leadership. In their statement of beliefs they require all tithe to go to headquarters and none of it to be used for charity.
ReplyDeleteIn the aftermath of Katrina the NTCC moved their church from Louisiana to Memphis and bought a $600,000.00 church building. They probably got an insurance settlement and rather than staying in the community and helping their own hurricane victims they took the money and ran, investing it in something that would benefit the Organization and it's leaders. Who cares about the church members who were too poor to move to Memphis.
Now the church in Memphis is being led by the hireling Crain who stands out on the street with a puppet trying to get people to come to his church.
The ntcc has never really cared much for any kind of Charity and if it was up to Davis or Kekel not a dime would go outside of the ntcc. All other charities have always been spoken against by the ntcc hierarchy and many of it's pastors.
Hi julie, I know that your testimony has taken you a long time to come to grips with. And I cant' imagine how difficult it has been for you to deal with all of this, being brought up in a "christian home." ???
ReplyDeleteI'd like you to think back, if you ever went to the doctor during those years, so that you could get a copy of those records. Those records would help cooberate your story. Even the records surrounding the birth of your children would help for the sake of the unbelievers, and scoffers of your testimony. There was one witness to all those years of sorrow, and abuse, Jesus has seen you, and been there for you, and what you went through, and we want you to know, that we love you, and we're praying for you, and we hope that others would stand up, and let their voices be heard, as well. I hope that this group could be exposed like the Catholic Church, and the corruption at the Penn State Sandusky coach program. Truth will always prevail, we hope for the best for you and your children. And if the legal system does not stand up against the perpetrators, at least those who read your words and hear your words will feel the pain and anguish of your heart, and know the truth. I would also suggest that you tape or even do a personal interview, even if it's just an audio of your voice, telling your story and putting it up on YouTube, because those who hate God, and who hate the truth, will try to discredit your word, but the truth will always prevail. God bless you, keep on hammering.
I assure you that Tanya, was never left to fight off sexual perverts without a lock on her door! Her windows were not left open, for some filthy animal to crawl through, and rape her! She was never without the finest medical treatments, etc. She would have never been sent to the attic, and forced to have sex, as her "parents" pimped her out, so they could scatch out an existence, and say that they were full time.... full time at what?
ReplyDeleteFull time cult leaders?
There was one witness to all those years of sorrow, and abuse, Jesus has seen you, and been there for you, and what you went through, and we want you to know, that we love you, and we're praying for you, and we hope that others would stand up, and let their voices be heard, as well. I hope that this group could be exposed like the Catholic Church, and the corruption at the Penn State Sandusky coach program. Truth will always prevail, we hope for the best for you and your children.
ReplyDeleteYes Jesus does care that I am thankful for. Thank you for your love and care that is so important as well as greatly appreciated. I also hope others will come forward for this must not stay in secret for the sake of all others in the future. People may think they have healed and their stories don't matter but their stories are needed for so many reasons including to let others know it isn't their fault it happened as well as they are not alone. Others stories could be the thing that frees other victims from the guilt they are carrying.
Everyone needs to know what they are like behind closed doors. I pray the truth frees others.
Thanks for your concern for my children as well as myself.
Hugs,
Julie
Anon said...I assure you that Tanya, was never left to fight off sexual perverts without a lock on her door! Her windows were not left open, for some filthy animal to crawl through, and rape her! She was never without the finest medical treatments, etc. She would have never been sent to the attic, and forced to have sex, as her "parents" pimped her out,
ReplyDeleteNo she got all you could ever want life.
Anon said...
full time at what?
Full time at separating people, destroying marriages, families, little children, G.I.'s, making beggars out of people in the name of God, making a mockery of the bible, etc
Hugs,
Julie
Hi julie, what has been the response of your "biological parents?" Real parents, even foster parents, would never consider such disgusting, and degenerate conduct toward their children.
ReplyDeleteOnly the lowest, and basest of people would hide behind the bible, and dare call themselves "christians!!!" They must be truely deluded, and one day, they will answer to God!
Anonymous said,
ReplyDelete"Hi julie, what has been the response of your "biological parents?" Real parents, even foster parents, would never consider such disgusting, and degenerate conduct toward their children.
Only the lowest, and basest of people would hide behind the bible, and dare call themselves "christians!!!" They must be truely deluded, and one day, they will answer to God!"
DNA say,
In a word, the organization and the St. Clairs' response has been:
DENIAL
They are deplorable. And we agree with you 100% that they are deluded, and one day, they will answer to God!
What is stunning to us is that Julie continues to reach out in Christian love to all souls. That is charity!
Anonymous said, "This "I have a Name" series is an over reaching, steaming pile of BS, the Scriptures enjoin us to ".. comfort the feeble minded" [...]" (click here for full comment)
ReplyDeleteDNA say,
Hmmn. For someone with only a fourth grade education, and who, according to Anonymous is "feeble minded", Julie sure does do a good job of showing what the NTCC is really all about. Her child like faith and love for souls shines an amazing light, her true stories show what these pompous phonies are really like. That's pretty good for someone who is allegedly "feeble minded". At least she is not a coward and is willing to sign her name to her posts, unlike this anonymous attacker who contradicts his / her own admonition to comfort someone he or she esteems as "feeble minded"; instead, anonymous attacks with no proof and accuses us and Julie of lying by calling her story a "load of Crap." Anonymous then finishes the attack by mocking Julie's customary signature "Hugs"
Really? That's your idea of comforting someone you esteem "feeble minded"? Anonymous, you really fail.
Hugs
Anonymous said, "This "I have a Name" series is an over reaching, steaming pile of BS, the Scriptures enjoin us to ".. comfort the feeble minded" [...]" (click here for full comment)
ReplyDeleteDNA say,
Hmmn. For someone with only a fourth grade education, and who, according to Anonymous is "feeble minded", Julie sure does do a good job of showing what the NTCC is really all about. Her child like faith and love for souls shines an amazing light, her true stories show what these pompous phonies are really like. That's pretty good for someone who is allegedly "feeble minded". At least she is not a coward and is willing to sign her name to her posts, unlike this anonymous attacker who contradicts his / her own admonition to comfort someone he or she esteems as "feeble minded" and instead, anonymous attacks with no proof and accuses us and Julie of lying by calling her story a "load of Crap." Anonymous then finishes the attack by mocking Julie's customary signature "Hugs"
Really? That's your idea of comforting someone you esteem "feeble minded"? Anonymous, you really fail.
Hugs
And, for the record, we both think Julie is very intelligent. She certainly is more capable of thinking for herself than most people in the borg are.
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of "parents" would allow multiple men to "discipline," spank their child? Allow men to photograph their daughters panties, allow their daughter to be sexually assulted, and molested, with an incestuous relationship with her
ReplyDelete"father," and when made known ignore it, and consider the word of the victim as lies!!!
What kind of "parents" would want their child to be ignorant of the basic knowledge of history, etc.
The reason that some of us choose to publish annonimoisly is the posibility of retretrobution. These people have henchmen that would do practically anything to serve them. Some years ago when the Taliban came into the news, people I worked with referred to our church much as the Taliban are associated in the world. At the time I thought they were crazy, but the more I think about it, the more what they said becomes crystal clear to me, we were fanatics, we had fully embraced the doctrine of the ntcc and we were blind leaders of the blind. hypocrites and lossed in our own self righteousness and pride.
DNA say,
ReplyDeleteHmmn. For someone with only a fourth grade education, and who, according to Anonymous is "feeble minded", Julie sure does do a good job of showing what the NTCC is really all about. Her child like faith and love for souls shines an amazing light, her true stories show what these pompous phonies are really like. That's pretty good for someone who is allegedly "feeble minded". At least she is not a coward and is willing to sign her name to her posts, unlike this anonymous attacker who contradicts his / her own admonition to comfort someone he or she esteems as "feeble minded"; instead, anonymous attacks with no proof and accuses us and Julie of lying by calling her story a "load of Crap." Anonymous then finishes the attack by mocking Julie's customary signature "Hugs"
Well when Anonymous used the words 'Loving Julie', "feeble-mind", "Crap", and "BS" they kind of gave a way who they are or who they are speaking on behalf of just by these words. Their speech doth betray them.
Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, Romans 1:22
Thanks Don and Ange for your comments.
Hugs,
Julie
Anonymous said... Hi julie, what has been the response of your "biological parents?" Real parents, even foster parents, would never consider such disgusting, and degenerate conduct toward their children.
ReplyDeleteOnly the lowest, and basest of people would hide behind the bible, and dare call themselves "christians!!!" They must be truely deluded, and one day, they will answer to God!
Yes only the lowest would do such things. I has a parent would never consider such things towards my children nor would I refuse to hear as a mother my children when faced with the abuse as my mother has done. Nor tell my child things like this are best left secret so it doesn't destroy the work of the Lord.
How a father can do what my father did to me, I will never understand? Then feel he had a right to get behind a pulpit and tear people down for sin in their life when you are guilty of far greater un-repented sin.
Hugs,
Julie
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteWhat kind of "parents" would allow multiple men to "discipline," spank their child? Allow men to photograph their daughters panties, allow their daughter to be sexually assulted, and molested, with an incestuous relationship with her
"father," and when made known ignore it, and consider the word of the victim as lies!!!
What kind of "parents" would want their child to be ignorant of the basic knowledge of history, etc.
I as the one victimize don't get it and definitely as a mother I say "When something is made known to a mother about abuse to her child and she does nothing she shoulders the blame as well.
Anonymous said....and when made known ignore it, and consider the word of the victim as lies!!!
When one has sin to hide they are willing to hide the sin of another until someone finds the closet where are the sin is hidden.
Anonymous said....What kind of "parents" would want their child to be ignorant of the basic knowledge of history, etc.
Parents that fear that the child may learn that all that their parents allowed them to suffer was wrong and the sin of those parents be uncovered.
Hugs,
Julie
I. Want to say its good to chat wig you guys without getting permission. First of all I was raised in the church for 15 years it was horrible .. I was raped by Jhonny He was one offs is boy he was married to my sister Pam. He would always grab my butt I used to stay home from church because I was so sick all the time.. He would wait til my dad would be outside he would put his hand over my mouth and he would play with my virginia.. He did rape me I was a virgin I got pregnant by him thank God I lost the baby.. I told my sister she told Davis he said to her he was so sick of these girls lying on his boys moved Jhonny to Seattle Davis turned my family away from me I had no one I started drinking at 15. Prayed every. Ight for me to die. It was not until Jhonny was arrested recently for child abuse. That now my sister knows the truth.. Nobody understood me I became. Very sexually active because I did not care about my body. Davis always wanted to make excuses to spank me mash ire did spank me I could swear he looked up my dress the way he bent me over. I have blocked so much out because of the pain.. I am remembering he put his hand in my underwear and was rubbing me .... I can't believe this came back to me.... I think of all people that where aloud to spank me. This one lady watch me and pull my dress up and spanked me with a orange race car track that was plastic I remember It hurt to sit down there was whelks on my butt I would cry to sit down my mom said I was crying and deserved everything I got... There is so much I have to share with you group.. Them men are nasty old men I apologize if I misspelled some words my eyes are real bad now that. Is another story about my health
ReplyDeleteHi Lisa,
ReplyDeleteWe are very sorry for what you went through in the ntcc. Please realize that none of this is your fault. You did not deserve for any of this to happen to you. You are very brave for coming forward and sharing this. There are others out there that have suffered in silence and had because of the deeply personal nature it is hard to share these things. Many of the readers of our blog have been through similar things and we hope that this will encourage them to share also.
By sharing your testimony you are validating the testimonies of others. There are people who have given love and support to Julie and there are those who do not believe Julie. They would rather believe that she was making things up, but she has been very honest about everything she went through. Now that you have come forward, it verifies that there is a pattern in the ntcc. We know this from what people have privately shared. Now there are two witnesses that have come forward publicly, and we know there are others out there who might be emboldened to come forward.
We thank you, Lisa, for sharing what you have been through. I know it's hard but people really need to know this. So much has been done in secret and there has been a lot of cover-up. People have been living in fear because the ntcc left them no hope. We just posted a new thread and we are going to carry this forward into the new blog post so that others will see.
I read with interest what you said in response to my desire to find out more about what happened. So am I now the enemy, because I have expressed some doubt? I understand why you chose not to post what I said, But what I don't understand are some of the "backhanded comments" that were said by you regarding what I said. I'm not anonymous, so I won't sign my name as such. However, “Anonymous” does raise some good points, albeit having been done in a sarcastic way. Also, I never said that what was posted by Julie St.Clair was not true. While I am not ridiculing her story, I am bringing in to question certain components of it. I even called you and expressed some concern. Does this make me "wishy washy"? Am I expected to agree with everything that is written on your blog-site that is "Anti NTCC" or risk expulsion just because I have some questions and concerns? I never said that Julie was lying. In fact, I think that a good portion of what she is saying is true. My concern is the fact that she is saying many of these things and not having to answer any questions about them. Is it OK for her, (or anyone) to make statements and then others don't have the opportunity to even question her on those statements? To me, It's like she gets to say anything that she wants to, and then NOBODY is allowed to even so much as question ANYTHING or risk being ridiculed or called “wishy washy.” I understand the concept of protection, but when someone has the opportunity and the podium and then makes all kinds of accusations against people and then are “wisked away” and nobody is allowed to question anything regarding the testimony it raises suspicions. It does with me anyway. I'll sum up what I am saying by just simply saying this. I think that Julie is telling the truth about some of what she is saying. In fact, a good portion of what she is saying is true. But I think that some of what she is saying are simply lies woven into the truth to make the story more readable and exciting. I also will say that she is enjoying the attention that she has gotten out here. Now, on my part, I'm finished saying what I want to say about this subject. Hopefully we can move on from here.
ReplyDeleteOkay, Mark,you have always been welcome to comment on this blog and much of what you have shared in the past has been worth while. When you called me, you expressed more doubt and in your comments you have expressed doubt. This is an ntcc X-er blog and it exists so that ex-members of the ntcc can have a voice which they were not allowed to have in the ntcc. Julie and Lisa have both come forward with accounts of their childhood in the ntcc, and that was a huge step for them to take. They shared deeply personal accounts of how they were abused by church members, ministers, family members and even Davis himself. Julie tried to share her story while she was in the ntcc, but many of the people she reached out to were like you, calling her a liar, which is what you just called her.
ReplyDeleteWhen Julie began to share her testimony, it was the first time in her life that she realized that she wasn't to blame for the horrific acts that were committed. At this time we wanted her to have her say and to let everything out. We are not obligated to publish any comments that would make the victims of sexual abuse feel the same way they felt while they were in the ntcc. Now Julie has become strong and she is sure of herself. We published your comment because there are others out there that express your concerns. However, this is not a forum for pro ntcc'rs to come on and disparage the testimony of Julie or Lisa or any of the many others that have come here for healing and to share their experiences. We probably will not publish a whole lot of comments like this because it is counter productive.
Now you can believe whatever you wish to believe and if you feel you have the right to interrogate these women about what you feel is not true and what you believe is true. Sorry, that is not what this forum is all about. Since Julie shared her testimony, Lisa has come out and validated much of what Julie has shared. They suffered needlessly and nobody would listen to them while they were crying out as children for help, and you think that we should allow you to interrogate them?
Mark G. Said:
ReplyDelete" I understand the concept of protection, but when someone has the opportunity and the podium and then makes all kinds of accusations against people and then are “wisked away” and nobody is allowed to question anything regarding the testimony it raises suspicions."
DNA said:
Who does that remind you of? Someone who has the opportunity and podium to make accusations? That sounds familiar. I guess that you are expecting us to take the fair and balanced approach, when we never had a fair and balanced opportunity ourselves. We were never given a chance to question anything. Young girls were molested, raped and pimped out for sex, and we have supporting testimonies from multiple victims. So you want to believe some of what they say but not all of what they say. Believe what you want. Start a blog, and share how the ntcc is wonderful and horrible. Sounds wishy washy to me and my guess is that many will not even visit.
In case you haven't noticed, we are not here to sugar coat anything, we are not here to cast doubt on the people who have spilled their life stories. We hate the ntcc, because of what they have done to countless people. They are sitting up in Washington all fat and happy and when they can get people like you to defend them, that's less work they have to do. They are all about discrediting those who have exposed them. They don't take any responsibility for anything they've ever did.
Not sure what you are wanting from us, but obviously, we are not on the same page as you are. We are not interested in scrutinizing people that have the guts to stand up to these creeps. We've been asking for someone who is brave enough to speak out and we finally get someone that not only speaks out but has encouraged others to do the same. Sorry Mark, I just don't see things the way you do. I not only believe that these things have happened, I believe that there are worse things that may not ever be shared. No hard feelings, but we just don't feel obligated to publish things that are counter productive and show more support for the abusers than their victims.
First off Mark I am thankful that you don’t post anonymous that is very commendable. I know it is very shocking to read what I write. With you not as a witness it is even harder to wrap your mind around what has taken place. As I heal I am learning to look at this, from how others might view my life history.
ReplyDeleteI didn’t want what has happened to me. In fact I would not wish it on another child for it was very hard to go through even now think about or deal with it.
When I stand before God I know that He would say my child “I saw every detail, action, every written word and spoken word.” I can stand before God knowing I told the truth.
Mark one thing I am having a hard time understanding is how you are all of the place on whether I have told the truth.
You statements that confuse me.
Mark said….Also, I never said that what was posted by Julie St.Clair was not true. I never said that Julie was lying. In fact, I think that a good portion of what she is saying is true. I think that Julie is telling the truth about some of what she is saying. But I think that some of what she is saying are simply lies woven into the truth…… (First part of sentence)
First you say I am telling the truth then you go all over the place on how you feel about what I have said to end with you believe it is truth woven with lies.
Like I said above when I stand before Him it will be known the whole truth was told as disgusting as it was to have happened.
As I am healing it is hard to have judgment on such a painful time of my life. It kills me to go through the healing process for it means to go through what has happened to get to the outside to freedom.
I pray that God can give you His eyes for just a moment to see how He sees what happened, how He views me, and how He sees the healing process for just one moment.
Don and Ange have saved my life with the help of God. I was just barely surviving before someone cared and showed me that I didn’t have to carry the guilt and the shame anymore. It has been said my children didn’t live with me through my childhood but they have lived through the symptoms.
As I write I have begun to understand me and how others’ actions have affected what I have become. I now know my life is in my grasp and I can truly live for the first time. My children see the difference they say I am happy….Mom I am glad to see it.
Mark said….But I think that some of what she is saying are simply lies woven into the truth to make the story more readable and exciting. I also will say that she is enjoying the attention that she has gotten out here.
You say I write to make it exciting????...... How is pain and horrible abuse exciting? I find what I write to be so difficult to write even worse to read but I need people to see things the way they are; saving victims in the middle of it all.
You say I am enjoying the attention…..no I am slowly enjoying the freedom in Jesus…..I am for once realizing I have a right to live…..to know without a doubt heaven is my home that is what I enjoy.
I may not be understood by people but God understands me as well as stands by me.
My fear and distrust of people still haunts my life but healing is a step by step process. I have not arrived nor claim to.
If me speaking out bothers you….I am sorry you feel that way. I hope we can agree on two things and that is the world needs Jesus and we can both pray for each other.
Hugs,
Julie
Mark and others, I think it's important to understand that Julie and Lisa have been taught to blame themselves for everything they went through as Children. When they went public with their testimonies, they were listened to and supported for the first time in their lives. When they found that others were loving and gracious toward them they realized that God loved them. I speak from my own experiences, not just on the account of these girls who were abused as children. The ntcc, wants you to blame yourself when you leave. As a friend put it, One of the most egregious teachings of the ntcc is that you can not be saved outside of the ntcc. Many of us have this in common. We felt like it would be impossible to be saved outside of the ntcc. Why do you think that is? Is it because they preached against every denomination and used fear to keep us from leaving? Where could we go, we gave all of our money to them?
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to leave the ntcc. We left and now we blog about what we know. Much of what has been shared is true and unfortunately the sicker it gets, the truer it turns out to be. NGE=Not good English. Julie is the first to go public, but when she went public we believed her because of all the other private testimonies we have heard, but we also read what she wrote and she speaks truthfully. She doesn't contradict herself and she shares what is on her heart. Davis contradicts himself and we therefore scrutinize what he says. Kekel does the same. Just about everyone in the borg contradicts themselves. So we have no reason to scrutinize or investigate the things that are being shared by Julie. Now Lisa has also come forward, and they both were in the organization about the same time, and went through much of the same things.
Just remember that in studies done on sexual abuse, there are many people who don't go public for every one that does. When people begin to share, others realize I'm not the only one, and they see the support and they also begin to share. If I were the ntcc leadership, I'd be scared. This does not bode well for them.
Mark said:
ReplyDelete"However, “Anonymous” does raise some good points, albeit having been done in a sarcastic way."
DnA said:
What are the good points that anonymous raises? I didn't see any. There was no substance to anything that anonymous said. Anonymous was stating opinions and had nothing to offer other than criticism. If you were a counselor and someone like Julie were to come to you for help, how would you handle it? To us, it sounds like you believed the anonymous hate filled comment as much or more than you believed Julie's testimony. Did you ever try to think in your heart, what if everything she is sharing is true? We gave the ntcc the benefit of the doubt. We believed them when they told us that we would die and go to hell if we didn't pay our tithe. We believed all of their outward appearance propaganda. We believed them to the point where we changed our lives and our friends and our finances to accommodate everything they said. We found after years of slavery and waste that we were being lied to the whole time. If I have to choose a side, I'm not going to side with the devils in the ntcc that have taken advantage of people and became filthy rich off of it. You told me yourself of testimony that you have heard from others about Davis's infidelity and you even were going to share the info of the guy that new Davis before he was started ntcc and you said that guy had a lot of dirt on Davis and his adulterous ways. We believe Julie not just because she has shared negative stuff about Davis and the organization. We don't publish this out of hate or revenge, but we believe her because she is down to earth honest and she has poured out her heart and what she says confirms much of what we already know.
I didn't use your name because I wasn't wanting to single you out. There are others that have expressed their doubts, but they had no substance in their opinions either. Their is much substance in everything that Julie has shared.
People think that as moderators of this blog that we are obligated to let everyone speak their minds and say whatever they want. We have been very forthright about the purpose of our blog and will state it once again.
"One of the primary reasons that we started this blog is to help people. Not only to help folks get past their experience in the ntcc, but also to help people realize that they can be a Christian outside of the ntcc."
If you want to know what this blog is all about click the blue link above that says "Our Mission Satement".
Those of you who are reading this please if your still in ntcc and you feel alone your not I prayer. For all of us that God will heal our souls and heal us. If nothing else talk to the board members the preachers ask them why they live in mansions. And your driving a broken down car.. What about those of you doing a work for God but eating of trash cans? God is a God of love. If you have to live with hell. Sermons to scare you to stay. Ask them what about them Hell. Waits them for the stealing of money for the rape... If nothing else please. Ask your children if anybody has touched them ? God have mercy on your souls
ReplyDeleteMark you first of all leave Julie alone. First of all Davis had a church he shared with another person this man was a God fearing man when the church split up he begged people not to follow Davis. Davis said he had this vision something about a duck and water flowing over his back... Davis Convinced these people to follow he told those women to get those Quaker oat dress to fix there hair whatever. Mark, Davis was kicked out if the truth be known he was sinning back then sleeping with the women. The children as they grew up his sick twisted mind love the little girls. Leave Julie alone stop taking Joan's side. She lives in sin ask God for answers.
ReplyDeleteSomething that Julie said about Tanya that strikes me as so “Tanya” and that is that Tanya just started “poofing”my hair. Just started. By the statement I assume that she meant without her permission. The first time I ever saw Tanya was in Tillicum, WA. In 1979 at a conference that was titled “Is there not a cause.” I actually took leave time in order to be at that conference. I think that Tanya was around 11 or 12 at the time. As I remember her my thoughts at the time was that she was very bossy even then. It seemed like her interaction with the other girls was that she thought she was better than they were. She was loud AND bossy. At the time I attributed it to the fact that she was just a very young girl, around young girls. After my meeting with both her and Mike Kekel not much had changed with her.
ReplyDeleteMark G. said:
ReplyDelete"As I remember her my thoughts at the time was that she was very bossy even then. It seemed like her interaction with the other girls was that she thought she was better than they were."
Proverbs 20:11
"Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right."
You were right about Tanya, and she turned out that way because she was raised by RWD and Verna. RWD and Verna are wicked people. They are not good. Tanya is a product of a toxic mixture between Rodger and Verna. They are the ones who started the ntcc, and surrounded themselves with really gross and wicked people.
Tanya was raised by Rodger and Verna, thus she became a product of the two. We all know she was adopted and probably the result of one of Davis' many afairs but her mannerisms and attitudes came from years of being raised by Rodger and Verna.
ReplyDeleteMark, I published your first comment because it was objective and it supported the purpose and cause of this blog. Your second comment is calling Julie a liar. You come right out and say that you don't believe her. You express more doubt than support. This blog is not factnet, in fact we have moderated it so people will not have to worry about people like you trying to tear them down. You find it hard to believe all the things that Julie went through, but you do believe most of it, or so you say. You say that you don't believe that Joan and Ralph could both be that bad. I do believe that both Joan and Ralph were rotten to the core and there are witnesses that corroborate a lot of what she went through.
ReplyDeleteNow I've fully explained what this blog is all about and if you want to continue to slander us for trying to provide a safe place for victims to share their stories than you'll have to find another vehicle for that. Since Julie shared her testimony others have come forward. I don't care if you believe them or not. If you want to start a youtube video by all means have at it. This is a free country and I am exercising my freedom to blog.
Why are you projecting your outrage towards me and this blog and the victims of ntcc abuse? The ntcc is the source of all the mayhem that has been created in the lives of it's former members.
In fairness to you, I published your first comment because it was objective and you have supported this blog in times past when very few have. I'm not trying to kick you off of this blog, but I will not publish anything that disparages Julie, Pam, Lisa, Lori, or any of these victims who have bravely laid out their personal lives for everyone to see. They did it to help others. Julie spends hours talking to victims that are afraid to come forward, and so do some of these other women. There are many people out there that have shared horrible things that you probably wouldn't believe either. Just because you don't believe them doesn't mean that they didn't happen.
I will restate the purpose of this blog so that you will know what is acceptable and what is not. We are here to help former victims of the ntcc. This blog is a safe haven for people to share their stories and testimonies of what they went through while in the ntcc. The ntcc was allowed to use their pulpits to tear people down and nobody was allowed to question or refute anything they said. This is not a place for you or anyone, I don't care who they are, To dump on people that are pouring out their souls. People have shared their hesitation to comment because others will attack them. It's not going to happen here. We are moderated for a reason.
The ntcc have not come forward to clear anything up or to refute anything since Briggs owned his comments on Chief's blog. They have had their chance to admit their wrong doing but they never have not admitted to anything. People are now coming forward and I'm sure that there are many out there that want to dispute what is being shared. Of course there are ntcc'rs and those who still defend the ntcc out there that want to dispute things. I wanted to dispute things that were being shared by the 14 pastors that brainwashed me and force fed their doctrine to me, but the ntcc was not a democracy. The women that have come forward on this blog would have been run out on a rail, if they would have shared anything that they went through. Look what happened to Fontenot's wife, when she tried to get help from Olson and Kekel. They didn't believe her. I wonder how you would have handled that situation, Mark? Probably the same way Olson and Kekel handled it. They told her to find another church and then let the child molester and rapist lurk among them. If you would have expressed more doubt toward Fontenot's wife than belief, she would have probably done the same thing she did. She prayed and God told her, you are at the wrong place, you should be at the Police station, and that's where she went. It is really sick when you think of it. Are these really the type of people you want to defend?
ReplyDeleteMark G. said:
ReplyDelete" However, “Anonymous” does raise some good points"
Anonyomous said:
"This "I have a Name" series is an over reaching, steaming pile of BS"
DNA said: By the way Mark, we never took down the Anonymous comment, we left part of it visible and made the rest a link. You showed more support for anonymous than you did for Julie.
Mark G. said in a comment that will not be published:
"By the time I finished reading part 4 I felt that the things that were being said were so outrageous that I simply could NOT believe them"
DNA said:
So that's not calling her a liar?
Mark G. said:
" But I think that some of what she is saying are simply lies woven into the truth to make the story more readable and exciting."
DNA said:
So, Mark, that's not calling her a liar?
Mark G. said in a comment that I will not post:
"Don, I did NOT call her a liar".
Mark G. said in a comment that I will not post:
"Sure, it's your blog, but don't put words into my mouth. It's time to move on."
DNA said:
Sounds wishy washy to me. You are all over the map on this one. You wrote some really off colored remarks that we will not publish. You basically mocked Julie and the only reason that I've published this much of what you shared is because Julie is strong and she can take it, and I'm sure others will have a lot to share on this topic.
Mark G. said:
ReplyDelete"If you don't want me to post anymore, then just tell me not to."
DNA said:
You are welcome to post as long as you stay in the clearly defined guidelines. That goes for anyone. Most everyone that has been commenting since these stories have broken, seem to understand this and they are all complying with it. Anonymous got the message apparently, and has not posted anything obnoxious since his first and only comment.
This is an anti cult blog. We believe that cults have a history of sexual abuse and that Julies testimony is not only believable but from all of the patterns of sexual perversion exhibited by the ntcc's founder, R.W. Davis, It is very conceivable that not only is everything that Julie is saying true, but also there is a lot more that we have yet to hear that would make your ears tingle. If you think Julie's testimony is far fetched you need to do some research on other cults and the sexual misconduct carried out by their leaders. Study FLDS and WOFF and other cults. Just do a google search of sexual perversion in cults. We already know from the facts and testimonies that have been shared that the ntcc is a perverse cult. Do you have any idea how easy it is to hide sexual crimes in a religious cult? You don't think it's possible for a young girl to get pregnant in the ntcc? Just because you didn't notice it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It has been reported on the blogs that bible school students had been forced to get abortions. Do you think Pam told a bunch of Lies? Do you think Lisa lied about being raped by Johnny Jordan and being pregnant at 15 years old?
To me this is just getting stupid. You can believe whatever you want to believe. I don't put anything past these cult leaders. I've seen enough corruption with my own eyes to last 10 lifetimes.
All they care about is money and they will destroy people and use them and sexually abuse them for their own gratification and this is one place, the only place that many of the victims feel safe sharing with others what they went through and you are hell bent on interrogating them for their honesty?
Somebody needs a check-up from the neck up!
ReplyDeleteMark,
ReplyDeleteI'm so disappointed in you. In times past you presented yourself as a man who cares about women.
Now I read your comments and it seems to me that you are more worried about what people think about you, than you are worried about what happened to defenseless young girls in the NTCC.
You say you would support them? How can you?
If you want to help somebody, you have to LISTEN TO THEM.
Mark,
ReplyDeleteYou seem quite distraught that we have not published all your comments.
You seem upset that you do not have a voice here.
Yet you, by your comments, would silence these victims of abuse.
Is that really what you want?
What if your wife told you she was raped?
What if she was raped as a defenseless child in a church that had such strict controls she had nowhere to go, no escape, no help from anyone outside the strict controls of the group?
Have you at least considered this?
Have you ever gone to a Doctor for an illness?
ReplyDeleteWhat was the first thing they did?
When you saw the Doctor, did he or she ask you what was wrong, what were you feeling, where was the pain or problem?
Did he or she listen?
Or did he or she tell you "I'd like to support you, BUT..."
I've read your unpublished comments. 99% of the comments say something. Only 1% says I'd like to support you.
That alone leads me to believe it's not true. How can you profess support in such a weak fashion and expect us to take it seriously?
It leads us to believe you have an entirely different agenda here. One that points to Mark defending his friends Ralph and Joan St. Clair.
You know, loyalty can be a good thing. But it can also become a fault or flaw when it blinds us to the truth.
The Germans under Hitler were loyal.
If we are going to err, would it not be best to err on the side of the defenseless?
Why haven't Ralph and Joan come forth to explain their side?
Why do you feel you need to take up for them?
How do you explain the witnesses who state that Joan denies having a daughter? Independent witnesses have stated this. They were stunned at the audacity of Joan's lie.
Shouldn't you consider this lie as proof of her willingness to tell multiple lies?
What about the other children and adults who have witnessed other people spanking children in ntcc who were not their own children?
Doesn't that tell you that other people were indeed spanking children that were not their own?
This stuff to me is so obvious. I understand wanting to believe in a friend, but only to a point. When the evidence and multiple witnesses verify that something was indeed awry, it's time to consider that your 'friend' has duped you and lied to you.
Did you know the bible says:
Pro 26:28
A lying tongue hateth those that are afflicted by it; and a flattering mouth worketh ruin.
I don't blame you for not liking being categorized as "wishy washy". That is not a name I'd want. But does it fit your actions?
ReplyDeleteHave you gone on the record that you really dislike Tanya Davis Kekel, yet seem completely enarmoured with her mother Verna? You profess that you thought she was good looking and seemed thrilled that she came up to you at a restaurant not too long ago and hugged you.
YUCK. To me, as is the Mother, so is the Daughter. Everything you dislike about Tanya Kekel she learned from Verna and Rodger. Don't you see that?
If that isn't double-minded or wishy washy, I don't know what is. They are exactly alike in spirit and purpose and pompous sense of entitlement. Both are bossy. One may be more subtil (Gen. 3:1) about it, but just as bossy. So approving of one and disapproving of the other makes no sense to me. It seems wishy washy or double-minded as if you are waffling.
I used to think you were a gentleman who respected women and would not hurt a woman.
ReplyDeleteWas I wrong to think that?
How can you read these accounts and not feel for their plight?
I'm going to pray for you. I'm going to pray that God will give you the answer and the grace to receive it. Because right now I feel in doubt of your ability to receive that grace on your own.
Wouldn't it be nice if everyone just prayed that the truth about ntcc would come out? But how can it? People need a voice. So should we stifle those who are sharing their stories?
Disappointed. Just so disappointed.
Mark,
ReplyDeleteYou are right. I was wrong about Verna hugging you. I read the thread again and it was actually Don who she hugged, and you were surprised by that since the ntcc used to teach against that for people of the opposite sex (gender).
I'm not looking for anti-ntcc comments. I'm looking for the truth.
I also want to create an environment where victims of abuse feel safe sharing their stories without fear of people accusing them of lying or telling them outlandish things like it was their fault.
I feel there are elements in your comments that would harm these girls who have suffered enough already. If you can write something supportive or neutral that doesn't do that, I will post it.
Here's a link for your comment about your encounter with the Davises at the Black Bear Diner:
Click here If you read the subsequent comments you will see how I made that mistake. I do apologize for that. I'm not perfect. And I'm not going to ever claim that I am either. :o)
Hi all,
ReplyDeleteThis is Diana Taylor. For many years I was involved in this organization. To some of you some things may sound unbelievable, but I have to say that you need to read and listen with an open heart.
I was a victim of sexual abuse...for many years I did not talk about it because I thought I would not be believed. It is really hard for a victim of any kind of abuse to come out right away. Only those that have been through it can relate! Those that have never been through such a thing are the ones that will come out and say that they (meaning the person abused) was the cause of their abuse.
Mark, I can understand somewhat why you are sceptical about what these girls are saying. I just want to say to please be patient. There are others, but because of their fear they are not coming out. I can appreciate these girls bravery for coming out. Don't be so hard on them!
I have shared some things with Don N Ange and it will come out in a future post.
Eight Ways To Support A Victim Of Abuse
ReplyDeleteWhat You Can Do To Help A Victim Of Abuse
ReplyDeleteThanks Don and Ange for helping me clarify what I was saying about Davis. Yes I am still learning how to explain everything that has happened to me. I only started learning last year that some of the stuff that took place was wrong and some it has taken until recently to understand it was also abuse against me. Learning it isn't my fault people abused me was shocking to me for I had been taught it was always my fault.
ReplyDeleteI have carried the burden for many years. It is like a growth so imbedded in me it takes time to know how to fully remove it from me.
There is so much that has taken place in my life. It is like a vine that has so covered the house I am still removing as I try to found the house underneath.
Learning to understand what has been done to me doesn't define who I am really. I still struggle with being loved but I am getting better at excepting I am worth loving though it is a day by day struggle for me even now.
Hugs,
Julie
Why are these people still allowed to be around innocence kids? They may have changed but if they haven't kids are endanger. Why risk even one kid's life to see if they have changed? NTCC seems to care more about the abusers then they care about kids yet they say they are all about souls. Kids are souls that can be lost forever too.
ReplyDeleteI have been bothered by some of Rev and Sis St. Clair behavior around kids. Now I understand I am not wrong in not wanting my kids around them. I thank God for directing me to have peace as a parent in my gut feeling.
ReplyDeleteThese people need to learn how to treat kids. They know how to draw kids in but not how to care about them.
I do plan on confronting Rev. St. Clair the next time I see him. This is just sick what his daughter says he did to her. If he even admits to part of it I don't know I could be a considered a pastor in such a place that allows him behind the pulpit. I am sitting here shaking my head.
ReplyDeleteOn Hidden Secrets, Anonymous said,
ReplyDeleteWhy are these people still allowed to be around innocence kids? They may have changed but if they haven't kids are endanger. Why risk even one kid's life to see if they have changed? NTCC seems to care more about the abusers then they care about kids yet they say they are all about souls. Kids are souls that can be lost forever too.
DNA say,
You raise some good questions. Why would anyone in their right mind allow accused pedophiles and perverts to be around any kids or even adults? What kind of so-called church has leaders who are the worst offenders of them all? Why would any parent risk loosing their child for eternity just to get a pat on the head and Scooby Snack from a self-appointed so-called preacher who has never pioneered any churches, doesn't soul-win, has a reputation for being mean and not seeming to be saved....???!!!
Do you parents think you are pleasing God by staying in this religious hypocrite environment? Don't you realize that God loves your children too and would never expect or want you to put them at risk like this?
Please consider these things folks. Your children are souls who need you to protect them and show them the ways of God, not the ways of perverse men. We love you guys and want your families to be safe and sound in Christ. Please heed these warnings before it is too late.
And as for you single or married folks who do not yet have the blessing of children. Remember, you too are God's child. He wants you in a living and breathing church that points people to Christ, not trains them to be mindlessly obedient to men who would have you sacrifice your future just so they can live in luxury. Please open your hearts and eyes to all that is right in front of you and ask yourself if it really lines up with the bible examples lived by Christ and His servants the apostles and prophets. That book is there for a reason. It's to show you God. Please heed what IT says. Learn what God says and follow THAT more than the voices of men who have given themselves titles.
On Hidden Secrets, Anonymous said,
ReplyDeleteI have been bothered by some of Rev and Sis St. Clair behavior around kids. Now I understand I am not wrong in not wanting my kids around them. I thank God for directing me to have peace as a parent in my gut feeling.
These people need to learn how to treat kids. They know how to draw kids in but not how to care about them.
DNA say,
Anon, we are glad you heeded your gut feeling. We hope this has led you completely out of the NTCC. It would be nice if these perverts would get saved and change; but since that hasn't happened yet, it would be best to leave a group led by the worst sort of perverts around. A little leaven leavens the whole lump. It only takes a tiny bit of yeast to make the whole lump of dough rise. It only takes a little bit of sin to make that whole church dirty. You don't want to be part of that. Please leave and find a safe environment a healthy church where you can serve God.
On Hidden Secrets Anonymous said,
ReplyDeleteI do plan on confronting Rev. St. Clair the next time I see him. This is just sick what his daughter says he did to her. If he even admits to part of it I don't know I could be a considered a pastor in such a place that allows him behind the pulpit. I am sitting here shaking my head.
DNA say,
Anonymous, Congratulations on having a backbone and a conscience! You may want to mentally prepare yourself that you are already on your way out of the NTCC. Why? Because these things (and more) really did happen to Julie and the other women who have shared their testimonies - Pam Norton, Lisa Norton, and Lori Kelley. And Davis was fully aware of all of it. And Kekel is accused too of being a rapists. And St. Clair has his "Minister In Good Standing with the NTCC" license. When you confront him, he will be MAD. He will run to Kekel and Kekel will try to bring the heat down on you. You might as well accept it right now, you, my friend, have a Christian conscience. You will never fit in with these devils. What fellowship has light with darkness? NONE. Just accept it and embrace freedom in Christ. Freedom from religion. Freedom to worship God in Spirit and in Truth!
I am the one that asked why are these people still allowed to be around innocence kids?
ReplyDeleteThank you for mentioning that God cares about couples too. My wife and I sit here reading what you wrote. It makes us think even though we have never had kids with what you say maybe God wants us out of this group. We have no opportunity now to have kids but it would be nice to not be miserable. My wife is so unhappy that she suffers from great depression. She has physical health stuff but since we don't have insurance she can't go to the doctor.
Is God against having insurance? Do you guys believe insurance is biblically okay to have? You really believe God wants me happy?
DNA say,
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, Congratulations on having a backbone and a conscience! You may want to mentally prepare yourself that you are already on your way out of the NTCC. Why? Because these things (and more) really did happen to Julie and the other women who have shared their testimonies - Pam Norton, Lisa Norton, and Lori Kelley. And Davis was fully aware of all of it. And Kekel is accused too of being a rapists. And St. Clair has his "Minister In Good Standing with the NTCC" license. When you confront him, he will be MAD. He will run to Kekel and Kekel will try to bring the heat down on you.
I know I can't question the leaders because that is disrespectful to God but you really think I will get kicked out for asking Rev. St. Clair about the past. Why would he get mad for me inquiring what happened between him and his daughter so many years back it will just be a few questions? I do get he may send me to Rev. Kekel to speak. Well I am going to speak to Rev. St. Clair this week and I'll see what he has to say. I have read the other posts yesterday and today it is strange and shocking what has happened to each one. From what I read about Julie she had to be thinking of suicide? I pray these men are sorry for what they did and repent of their ways. Do you think Julie is emotional and mental stable in this point of her life with all that has happen? I don't mean mentally off. I am just concern how this has made her.
Thank you for mentioning that God cares about couples too. My wife and I sit here reading what you wrote. It makes us think even though we have never had kids with what you say maybe God wants us out of this group.
ReplyDeleteDNA say,
Hi Anonymous. Yes, we believe God wants you to leave ntcc. Here is why.
When you are part of a group, you are saying you agree with what the group does and that you follow their leaders. In a healthy church that is fine. In a dangerous group like NTCC, that is not fine. Here's why.
Since you are a Christian and will lift up Christ as such, Jesus will draw souls and build a church. But if the men running that church are evil, those souls that you brought to God are now in danger. The souls were attracted to the God in you. When you introduce them to your 'pastor' the souls will naturally transfer any holy love they have for you over to your 'leaders'. Why? Because they think your leaders are going to be like you.. - whether they are worthy or not, the people will think they are. That puts those people in danger of being taken advantage of by the corrupt leaders.
Christianity is more than just looking out for ourselves. It is loving our neighbors as ourselves. It is saying, Even though Julie is not my daughter I can't be part of a group that raped her!
We love our neighbor as ourselves. How would you want others to treat you if you were raped by a so-called preacher? Would you want them to sit and listen to a rapist preaching? How would it feel to you if they did that? Would you feel like the rapist got away with it and that his mocking God and hurting you was okay? Isn't that the message that is sent to the victims of these crimes if we do nothing? We have to be responsible for what we join ourselves to.
You folks seem like good people who are trying to carefully sort out the truth. We get that. We understand that. But truthfully, when 1, 2, 3 witnesses come forward saying, davis raped me, johnny jordan raped me, kekel raped me, ...!!! You are seeing the pattern. When Fontenot's ex-wife shares that she told kekel and davis that Fontenot raped their daughter, but they let Fontenot come back and be part of the church without warning anyone... you see the problem. These guys are guilty. The ntcc is not safe. Even if you don't have children, you cannot be a part of that and lure other people and their kids into that trap.
We believe you want to do the right thing; and we know God will help you.
We have no opportunity now to have kids but it would be nice to not be miserable. My wife is so unhappy that she suffers from great depression. She has physical health stuff but since we don't have insurance she can't go to the doctor.
ReplyDeleteIs God against having insurance? Do you guys believe insurance is biblically okay to have?
First of all, we are sorry you are miserable. We know that leaving the organization will help you greatly. The ntcc has so much wrong. The busy schedule is meant to wear you down and make it impossible for you to think about all the wrong things you see. Just leaving that and developing a walk with God according to His direction will help you greatly.
If you or your wife is suffering, try to see a doctor. Even if you don't have insurance, there are many programs that will help pay for the visit, and the price is often much lower than what it would be for a person with insurance. Go figure. But that's how it is.
When the org leaders are sick, they go to the doctor. They go to the hospital. Do they have insurance? Probably. They make so much money it probably doesn't matter. Jim Johnson - ntcc's long time board member - and his wife Deborah used to sell insurance. Whom do you think they sold it to? Probably the ntcc board members. davis used to 'preach' against insurance because he would rather have your money for himself. When davis found out that some women had joined a gym, he was so angry he 'preached' and ranted and raved all night long about how they had so much money to throw around blah blah blah. Then he raised the bible school tuition on the classes to take away that money. He also taught an extra class so there would be no free time. He was the gawd of ntcc and wanted full control of everything from who you marry to getting the men snipped or the women's tubes tied if the man refused.
God blessed Adam and Eve. He told them to be fruitful and multiply. The bible speaks of children as a being a blessing. The man that has a quiver full is blessed. Children are a blessing, not a hindrance as davis called them.
Even if you are past the age of having children, God is able. Consider Abraham and Sarah. :o)
You really believe God wants me happy?
ReplyDeleteYes, yes, a thousand times yes God wants you to be happy.
He loves you.
He loves you so much He gave His only begotten Son to die in your place so that you could have life more abundantly!
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. - Jhn 3:16 KJV
I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. (part of) John 10:10
And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost. - Act 13:52 KJV
Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full. - Jhn 16:24 KJV
Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance. - Act 2:28 KJV
And now come I to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they might have my joy fulfilled in themselves. - Jhn 17:13 KJV
That last verse comes from the gospel of John that records Jesus praying for the disciples for all time (including us). It such a special portion of scripture that shows us how much He loves each one of us. Check it out and you will see what we mean.
Yes. God wants you to be happy!
It is not disrespectful to talk to church leaders and ask questions. People asked Jesus lots of questions. He answered them honestly. :o) He had nothing to hide. For more info, we recommend reading this post:
ReplyDeleteTouch Not Mine Anointed
Thank you for responding to my questions. I read the touch not mine anointed article.
ReplyDeleteWow I never thought about the word touch being different from talking. I am scheduled to meet with him tomorrow. I feel a better now about talking to him about these things. Thank you for helping me be ready for whatever the out come is with this.
It is strange with everything that has been said about you I really think you care. How can you care with all the things they speak against you for supporting Julie as your sister in Christ?
Hi Anonymous,
ReplyDeleteYes, we care. LOL. You know how it is easy to tell if somebody cares about you? They will be a friend in need. They will love you whether you are up or down, healthy or sick, fun or grumpy. They will just keep on loving you the way that Jesus loves you - unconditionally.
The world is not so, although there are many people whom the ntcc labels as "sinners" who demonstrate far more love and compassion than the typical person who is in the ntcc; who claims to love Christ, but will follow the bad example of the ntcc 'leaders'; they will cross to the other side of the road to avoid helping the person in need.
We've heard that kekel has said that a person was so greedy that they were begging while homeless.
We almost had to laugh at his confusion; but it is just too pitiful.
Isn't mike kekel the greedy one? Look at the many mansions and homes built for him and owned by him and his wife tanya. For all that 'wealth' (for they are poor towards God), have they ever really done anything to help anyone? Have they ever brought home a homeless person or even given them $20?
Instead mike kekel tries to say a homeless person is greedy for begging? ? ? ? ? ?
So, according to mike kekel's confused way of thinking,
Lazarus who begged in front of the rich man's place was "greedy" and "lazy" for "begging". It seems to me that mike, like the rich man in the gospel true story, is in for a rude awakening when he too winds up in hell, "begging" for Julie, like Lazarus, to come cool his tongue by merely dipping the tip of her formerly "crippled" fingers into the water to cool his tongue from the flame...
Luke 16:19-31
You know, we take no joy in pointing out the obvious flaws in kekel's life. We wish he would just repent. Do you understand what the bible says of a person who is impenitent? To put it nicely, they have a horrid eternity awaiting them. Why not just confess and repent?
Please, folks, use a little common sense when dealing with these religious hypocrites like the kekels of the world who have only used religion as a scheme to get rich off of the sacrifice of God's children and to try and satisfy their lust of the flesh by raping God's children, and to try and satisfy their lust of the eyes and pride of life by buying more, more, more expensive musical instruments, recreational vehicles, luxury cars, private villas or mansions or ... etc. etc, etc. It's all about the pride of life with them. They don't care about souls.
They care about only one thing: MAMMON
Anonymous said,
ReplyDeleteThank you for responding to my questions. I read the touch not mine anointed article.
Wow I never thought about the word touch being different from talking. I am scheduled to meet with him tomorrow. I feel a better now about talking to him about these things. Thank you for helping me be ready for whatever the out come is with this. ...
DNA say,
Anonymous, You are welcome! Thank you for commenting. Thank you for reading the article, "Touch Not Mine Anointed". We want people to learn and understand how the ntcc works. We had many people help us understand what we had gone through. We've read countless other articles on blogs trying to process how the ntcc is able to convince people to serve satan all under the guise of religion and service to God.
That seems like a big claim. But please think about what happens in your ntcc. Let's say you hear the gospel and God deals with your heart. He said His Word would not return void (empty) but would accomplish His will.
11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper [in the thing] whereto I sent it. [Isa 55:11 KJV]
to be continued
continued:
ReplyDeleteOkay. So you get saved. Praise God. That's great! But it doesn't end there.
Now let's say you have that first love. You love God. You are thankful for salvation. You want other people to have that too. So you bring them out to church. Okay. So far so good. You're real, they get saved, they are real. But it doesn't end there.
You start hearing about the bible school (now called a seminary, though davis and kekel used to make fun of that term and say that other churches had "cemeteries". How rude of them to mock or "blaspheme" those other churches. How hypocritical of them to reverse themselves and now adopt and use the word seminary for something that is really just a cult indoctrination school.) You don't really learn about the bible there. All you learn is what they want you to do - obey the self-titled "man of Gawd" who is not of God. His actions do not line up with the Word or with the example of Christ, so he is not "of God". Just a man. A man with a bunch of rules he wants you to follow. And why? All so he can make a buck. Or rape your daughter.
And that brings us back to the issue at hand. You, as a Christian, want souls to be saved. So please, don't bring them out to church where allegations incriminate the top leaders for being pedophiles and child rapists, where former "seminary" instructors and "lay pastors" have been CONVICTED of Murder and Sexually violating the corpse (kelly merz), and Raping their own child (michael fontenot). Then you have the board members' family member Johnny Jordan related to both (Timothy) Paul and George Jordan (by blood) and the Ashmore and DiFrancesco families (by marriage) who is a CONVICTED child rapist. Plus the ntcc founder, rodger davis, was allegedly kicked out of his former church for having sex with the wives of two of their church board members! And women have come forward who stated davis violated them sexually when they were children and teens. The sexual impropriety starts at the top of ntcc and has spread throughout the organization just as the bible describes that a little leaven leavens the whole lump. Please don't drag other people into that group and put them and their children at risk. Please stand for Jesus and seek a healthy safe church environment. Look for leaders who practice what they preach and preach the Word. Look for leaders who serve the congregation as Jesus served. Look for the fruit of the Spirit in their lives. If you don't see that, look somewhere else.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. ... 25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit. 26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another. [Gal 5:22-23, 25-26 KJV]
My name is Mike Johnson,
ReplyDeleteI attended this church back in the late 90's but was done after about 5 years... I had a couple of good pastors so my experience wasn't all negative.
I read the entire I have a name article and am kind of in a bind. I want to believe it but holy cow what are the chances of all that happening to one person. I think because I grew up in a good home I don't have the understanding of what it's like to be in a circle of people like this.
Julie, I hope your doing well.
I'm wondering if there is a connection between sexual misconduct and being in a holiness movement church. When you believe in perfection it would seem like people are so tight and wound up in their own heads... I don't know...
I have to admit I haven't been to church much since I left. I don't know what I believe anymore. I hope that if all this is true your site is successful in bringing down a bad organization.
Mike said:
ReplyDelete"I read the entire I have a name article and am kind of in a bind. I want to believe it but holy cow what are the chances of all that happening to one person. I think because I grew up in a good home I don't have the understanding of what it's like to be in a circle of people like this."
DNA said:
The chances of it happening to 1 person were increased by the number of sexually deviant people in the ntcc that were able and willing to take advantage of a handicapped young girl. What made it easier was the fact that Julie had parents that were not only willing to molest her, but that were willing to make a profit off of others who wanted sexual gratification. R.W.D. has a long list of young women and girls who claim that he took advantage of them. He started the ntcc under allegations of adultery when he was with the Pentecostals and there are many ministers and old time members from the 70's that have testified of R-dubs adultery.
They have so much power over young girls that it's amazing that anyone has been able to come forward and share the details of the horror they have suffered. For every one that has come forward there are many that are too afraid to share. They keep it inside and live in fear.
The things that you have read are unthinkable when you have grown up in a good home or attend a good church. The ntcc was started by a serial adulterer, and many people ignore that. We exist to hear the cries of those who were ignored by the ntcc, and we publish their testimonies. We believe many of those who share their accounts of horror because they are consistent with the pattern of behavior that others have exposed the ntcc leaders of committing.
We are not after your money and there is no benefit that we get by blogging about this stuff. Sometimes I wish that none of it were true and that I didn't feel the need to be involved to this extent, but I also have passion to expose the ntcc crooks and pedophiles for what they are. They had no problem preaching from their pulpits the hell fire and brimstone message to all who failed to pay their tithes, calling them God robbers and threatening them with eternal damnation. They are welcome to come on this blog and defend themselves but they never do, and they probably never will. They might come on here anonymously and take a couple of shots at us but they have no desire in coming clean or showing transparency. They will continue to hide behind their banner of holiness while taking advantage of those who are weak and follow them out of fear. They will continue to destroy people and climb over the backs of those who they have down trodden and abused until one day they reach the end of their journey and they have to answer to God for the ones they have destroyed. They'll have to answer the questions that they were too afraid to confront on this blog. What about Julie? What about The Morenos and the Norton Children who were abused? What about all the countless others that were too weak or afraid to speak for themselves? What part did they play in ignoring and marginalizing the down trodden saints who struggled to survive while being kicked over and over by the ones that were charged with shepherding their souls?