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| Pastor Ramirez Nov. 20, 1959 - Jan. 31, 2013 |
The system in the ntcc didn't allow for a whole lot of fun, we stayed busy pounding the streets and trying to get people saved and faithfully attending church and somehow within that system we managed to have some enjoyable experiences.
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| Schmidtke Wedding Korea |
We understand that there are folks that have had bad experiences with Rev. Ramirez. While we understand that many have had difficult times with their ntcc pastors my personal experience with Rev. Ramirez was mostly positive.
To Sister Ramirez, all we can say is that we are very sorry for your loss and can't imagine what you must be going through. We hope and pray that God will carry you through this difficult time. I know that we are probably considered public enemy number one by many in the ntcc, and we definitely have voiced our opinions publicly, but for now, we wish in respect and humility to offer our sincere condolences to you for a man that was greatly loved and respected by many.
Arrangements in Lawton, OK are being handled by Lawton Ritter Gray Funeral Home 580-353-2940.
According to the Lawton Constitution published Feb. 5th, 2013 - This brief online obituary for Rev. Ramirez was published this morning (Feb. 5). If you are local and looking for info, you may be able to attend the service today (Feb. 5, 2013) at 2 P.M. at the Lawton, OK / Ft. Sill NTCC according to the newspaper obituary found at:
http://www.swoknews.com/obituaries/item/4586-eduardo-ramirez-jr
According to the person we spoke with at Ritter Gray, the family plans to fly Rev. Ramirez' remains to his home town of Aurora, Illinois. For more information, Daleiden Mortuary, Aurora Illinois can be contacted at 630-631-550 or online at
http://www.daleidenmortuary.com/obituaries/Eduardo-Ramirez3/#/Obituary
I never knew Pastor Ramirez, But I am saddened by the fact of his untimely death. I am equally saddened by the fact that he left a wife behind. Not trying to be the bearer of bad tidings, I have to admit that when this kind of thing happens at NTCC it sends a shudder down my spine. I just hope that the LEADERSHIP (Yes, that means YOU Mike Kekel and R'Dub) will step in and offer some kind of assistance, and not take up another STUPID OFFERING on the flock that is already over tithed and "offered out" to begin with. If I sound as though I'm jumping to conclusions to soon, I'll be quiet and watch,wait,and listen.
ReplyDeleteMark,
ReplyDeleteThank you for your thoughtful comment. This morning The Lawton Constitution online news site finally published a tiny obituary on Rev. Ramirez.
We've heard that people in the organization are really upset that the NTCC did not notify anyone in a timely fashion about Rev. Ramirez' passing. That, as we know, is the organization's typical mode of operation: needless secrecy and cover-up. We know they will try to deny this. But we know the truth of how it really is in the NTCC.
Is that any way to treat the Ramirez family who has dedicated a combined 62 years or so of service to your organization? The NTCC is unbelievably lousy. As a result of their actions and lack of action, we will be rededicating our In Memoriam blog page so people can learn about the passing of their colaborers and friends from the NTCC.
I don't know how "reliable" your sources are, But I'm assuming that you have some kind of a pipeline/source coming out of NTCC telling you these things. Secrecy and Isolationism is what they seem to play on, as well as the control of information. I hope I live long enough to either see a mass exodus, or a complete overhaul of leadership. My prayer for Sister Ramirez is that she will be adequately provided for, and that she won't have to go to work at Walmart.
ReplyDeleteDon and Ange wrote...
ReplyDeleteWe've heard that people in the organization are really upset that the NTCC did not notify anyone in a timely fashion about Rev. Ramirez' passing.
Chief said...
I don't think that's what they were upset about. It's my firm understanding that some were upset about not finding out about Briggs and or the other minister who died shortly before (I think Hastings was his name) until well after the fact. Just wanted to set the record straight on that one.
Mark G wrote...
ReplyDeleteI don't know how "reliable" your sources are
Chief said...
Very reliable and currently serving in the NTCC in an Official capacity.
Having said all that, it is sad to see someone so young (relatively speaking) die unexpectedly. What you wrote was very nice Don and thoughtful.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comments and clarification, Chief. You were close; the other deease minister's name: Hasty. People can read those stories by clicking into the now updated In Memoiam page - Click Here.
ReplyDeleteSorry for that typo. *deceased*
ReplyDeleteTrouble loading the blog? Try the mobile view click here.
ReplyDeleteSister Ramirez just wrote a very nice facebook message in response to some of what was written in this blog post. She also corrected me on some info that I posted incorrectly. Chief also corrected us on this in an earlier comment.
ReplyDeleteWe mentioned that ministers were upset about not being informed about Rev. Ramirez's funeral. What Chief actually told me applied to ministers not knowing about a previous funeral in which ministers were not notified. Because of this, calls were made this time to every minister, so that this would not happen again.
Sis. Ramirez told us that there were many calls made and a lot of folks made it to the Memorial service in Lawton.
I misunderstood Chief in a conversation we had on the phone earlier this week. I was driving my truck while we were talking and there was a lot of noise in the truck and Chief sometimes talks loud when he gets excited and it comes through a little distorted.
I should have verified what was said before it got posted on this blog. My bad.
Don and Ange wrote...
ReplyDeleteSis. Ramirez told us that there were many calls made and a lot of folks made it to the Memorial service in Lawton.
Chief said...
Sure there were a lot of calls made and I want to re-emphasize my previous point. Yes there were many calls made about Mr. Ramirez's death which incidentally is very unfortunate and sad. Shortly after his death, I was contacted (called) by a current NTCCer who is "NOT" a church member but who serves in the ministry. This individual told me that they had in fact be notified about Mr. Ramirez's death but they had also been told that some ministers were previously upset with the NTCC leadership about not being notified about the death of other NTCC ministers or another NTCC minister who had recently died. They were referring to Briggs and or Hasty, I don't recall.
My point here is that it was made clear to my by my source, that the calls about Mr. Ramirez's passing were the direct result of complaints made to the NTCC leadership by current NTCC ministers or an "NTCC minister" who had not been notified about previous passings. In other words the NTCC leadership was just checking the block and I have no reason to doubt my assessment because they have a history of keeping things a secret. Had there not been complaints, I'm convinced, (because of what my source told me) that numerous calls would not have been made as the result of Mr. Ramirez's unfortunate, sad and untimely passing. I have no reason to believe that the NTCC leadership's calls had anything to do with true care and concern but had everything to do with additional damage control and an effort to cover their backs while attempting to appease disgruntled NTCC ministers. My source had no reason to lie.
Secondly,
For decades, RWD and many of his ministers have been openly proclaiming judgment against all adversaries of the NTCC while claiming that calamity happening to them was the direct result of God's judgment. However, in direct contrast, NTCCers proudly proclaim that all who die in the NTCC are going home to be with the Lord, but if someone like me died, it would be proclaimed that I had just received the judgment of God and I'd be spending eternity in hell. How convenient. I could flip that around quite effectively I might add, but I digress.
Well I tell you this: I'm not putting anyone in heaven or hell and I certainly hope with all sincerity that Mr. Ramirez is not in a place of torment. The fact is, I have no way of knowing for sure but I do know this... Many, many, people in the NTCCC such as R.W. Davis, J. Olson, M. Kekel are no better spiritually or righteously than a bunch of quote, "sinners" that I know and in fact the quote, "sinners" that I know show much more love, common decency, and overall goodness than many ministers both current and past who have served in the NTCC. To love thy neighbor has a whole lot more to do with giving to someones needs vs simply blasting them and raking them over the coals because you think you are more spiritual than they are, WHEN YOU ARE NOT but rather, just the opposite.
James 2:15-17 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteContinued from above...
ReplyDeleteDon't tell me, "I'm praying for you" if I'm destitute of daily food you NTCC hypocrites. How about taking some time out of your blasting schedule, to go down town to help the needy or give to the less fortunate and poor or helping the fatherless and widow instead of funneling yet more money into another mansion or more furniture for RWD and or Kekel you bunch of con artists. I find no example of such practices taking place in the Bible where someone like Tanya is daily spending her church members money to shop for yet more clothing or furniture while folks in the same exact church are living in poverty and going hungry other than a few hot dogs and a pack of ramen noodles and some stinkin Kool-Aid.
Well the NTCC preachers like to highlight everyone's faults and I like to highlight theirs right back at them. They need to worry less about everyone else going to hell spend more time worrying about their own spiritual shortcomings because they are many. And turning a blind eye to the Kekel's/Davis' hypocrisy makes you just as guilty or have they selectively forgotten how RWD blasted folks in conference for not attending the NTCS but isn't it convenient how is own grandson is attending a Catholic college which was preached against by probably every NTCC pastor I ever had to include RWD himself and the last time I checked Kekel is still in charge!!!!!! And you NTCC ministers still try to send your folks up to that bible school in Graham to be taught by the Kekels? Really? And you are supposed to be doing the work of the Lord? Really? You might want to stop placing everyone else in hell, lest you find God telling you that you should have judged not and as a result, you were judged!!!!!!
Well, y'all NTCCers are no better than the average person who you call a sinner so you better hope that God has mercy because you making it into heaven ain't going to have anything to do with how many people you blasted or how many door you knocked because you do more harm than good. You better get off your high and mighty NTCC attitude and hope that God's got mercy and it's just that simple. And it doesn't say anywhere in that Bible that a woman can't work on a job. Keepers at home means to be a "good house keeper" and Proverbs 31 clearly point out that a "virtuous" woman will have a job. So you NTCC leaders are willfully teaching false doctrine because I know you've read my articles about this topic on my blog but you've elected to ignore them and that's why me and my "WORKING" wife have means and most of you NTCC ministers and your wives don't. Your wives aren't virtuous like you suppose because you've ignored Proverbs 31. Additionally Pro 31:6 says... Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish. I wonder how many NTCCers would try that one but yet they'd blast anyone who thought about it. Throw that one out of the Bible also right? Throw all of Proverbs 31 out if you are in the NTCC because you certainly thinking about trying to apply it.
Briggs didn't even have life insurance for crying out loud because he told me before he died. Is that what you consider providing for your family? That's what the Bible considers being an infidel.
1 Tim 5:8. But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.
Continued below...
Oh but you send your money to Graham while loading up the Kekel's with yet even more but not effectively provide for your own family? Stop blasting everyone else and start examining yourselves a lot more closely because the lives of many of you don't line up with what you preach 5 times a week. You are judging yourself every time you get behind the pulpit and that's the main problem I have with most of you NTCC hypocrites. You conveniently ignore the parts of the Bible that don't line up with your whacked out doctrine. You also may want to take a closer look at Deu 22:5 because it doesn't have jack to do with a women not wearing pants. It has to do with a woman not wearing the battle gear that pertains to a "STRONG MAN" or a "MAN FIT FOR BATTLE". Look it up you willfully ignorant abusers. You strain at a knat but you swallow a camel and you know what Jesus had to say about your type.
ReplyDeleteDeuteronomy 22:5 clearly pertain to those who were under the Law of which we are not. ( WE ARE UNDER GRACE.)However ntcc does not rightly devide the word of truth, because they mix the teachings of the Law with the teachings of Grace.(THE NEW TESTAMENT.) James 2:10 teaches For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, is guilty of all. By ntcc teaching and preaching any parts of the law as to how there members/students should live, dress, pay thihes,etc. etc. they make them selves guilty or indebted to keep the whole law by cherry picking parts of the Law that they want to impose on there members/students.
DeleteFor the record, what I'm about to write here, I am dead serious about and I say this in all respect to Mr. Ramirez's memory and to his wife. I thank God for Pastor Ramirez and I'm not saying that sarcastically but in all sincere seriousness. That man, unknowingly at the time basically saved my life. If I were a superstitious man, (which I'm not) I would speculatively suspect, that God used Pastor Ramirez to help me out when I was too brainwashed and ignorant to help myself.
ReplyDeleteI had fully made up my mind that I was going to attend the NTCS and get out of the Army. Well that would have been the biggest mistake that I could have possibly made in my entire life because attending the NTCS is probably the biggest waste of time and money of anything that a man could possibly do and of that I'm convinced. Staying in the Army on the other hand was the greatest, most fulfilling and most valuable endeavor that I've ever made. Well Pastor Ramirez didn't like that I'd talked to a lady in the church and that she'd given me a card showing me her appreciation for picking her up for church while driving hours out of my way because she was stationed in a whole different city in Germany than the one I was stationed. So Pastor Ramirez called me into a private room and commenced to chewing me out and then he told me to my utter disappointment, that he would not recommend to the NTCC leadership that I attend the NTCS. I had already lived in two other serviceman's homes prior to the one Pastor Ramirez was over and I had already prepared and planned to get out of the Army by not extending. Well, when Pastor Ramirez told me that, I was so disappointed that I simply quit going to his church as soon as I worked up the nerve.
So the end result is, I now have 30 years of Military for pay and I'm still on active duty having been recalled some 26 years from the year that Pastor Ramirez told me that he wouldn't recommend that I attend the NTCS. No one reading this blog can have any idea how thankful I am that Pastor Ramirez made that decision because he single handedly did more to help my life and my prosperity than anyone in the NTCC by far and for that matter most anyone I've ever met for sure. Now I have great benefits a great retirement check, plenty of money, a great life and that never would have happened were it not for Pastor Ramirez whether at the time either one of us knew it or not, (which I'm confident, neither one of us did). So in the NTCC, along with the Hunts looking out for my wife and son when my wife was sick, (which despite some of the things I write, I'm very grateful for) no one, (knowingly or not) has ever done nearly as much for me as Pastor Ramirez most likely in my entire life. I say this with all humility and sincerity; I thank God for Pastor Ramirez and I sincerely wish that he rests in peace.
Sincerely,
Jeff
And to Sis Ramirez,
ReplyDeleteI sincerely wish you the best under such difficult circumstances. Thank you for always being very nice and pleasant. You always were. I've written a lot of things but I'm sincerely very sorry that you've lost someone so dear to you. "I pray that our Heavenly Father may assuage the anguish of your bereavement, and leave you only the cherished memory of the loved and lost". The words of President Lincoln and words that are near to my heart.
Sincerely,
Jeff
Jeff,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the comments.
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ReplyDeleteOur Good Guru Buddy helped us sort that out.
DeleteThis obituary was just published. There is a guestbook and photo album.
ReplyDeleteFuneral services will be held Tuesday, February 12, 2013 at THE DALEIDEN MORTUARY, Aurora, Illinois at 10:00 AM. Rev. R.W. Davis will officiate according to the Daleiden Mortuary website.
ReplyDeleteDis said...
ReplyDeleteDeuteronomy 22:5 clearly pertain to those who were under the Law of which we are not.
Chief said...
Just want to emphasize. Even if Deu 22.5 wasn't part of the law, the NTCC leadership is willfully misinterpreted the scripture anyway. If you look up the Hebrew word "man" which is referenced in the scripture, it is referring to and translated as a "Strong Man" or a "Man with the ability to fight". Then if you look up the phrase "shall not wear that which pertaineth" which in Hebrew is ONE word it logically means armour or weapon which is the only reason that the "man" part referenced a Strong man or a man fit for battle. They go together. So the translation, is that a woman shall not wear a weapon or armour that is worn by a strong man or a man who has the ability to fight.
We know for sure the type of man referenced was a man with the ability to fight so why would the scripture be saying a women shall not wear the everyday clothing that is worn by a "STRONG" man or a man with the ability to fight? That wouldn't make any sense whatsoever. If that was the case, then I woman would be permitted by the law to wear the everyday clothing worn by a weak man or a man with NO ability to fight. And that wouldn't make sense either. So it's obvious that the only sensible translation option available in the Hebrew dictionary for a "man with the ability to fight" would be a weapon or armour which were two of the available options. Most importantly, NONE of the 325 options for the Hebrew word numbered "3627" were clothing!!!! All options were some kind of "UTENSIL" worn by a man such as specific type of JEWEL, A WEAPON, ARMOUR, TOOL OF LABOUR, IMPLEMENT OF HUNTING OR WAR.
PERIOD.
The NTCC has it all wrong and it's just that simple. But because it was specifically referring to a man "FIT FOR BATTLE" it only makes sense that the logical options were "IMPLEMENT OF HUNTING OR WAR", "ARMOUR", or "WEAPON". That scripture doesn't have shit to do with a woman not being able to wear a pair of pants which incidentally for a fact didn't even exist back when the scripture was written and a pair of pants is not a "war weapon" anyway. The NTCC has it completely wrong and I'm no smarter than them so the only logical explanation is that the NTCC leadership is deliberately misleading people and it's just that simple.
Let me tell you what gets me. These NTCC flunkies will read my last message and not even consider it, for fear they will find out that what I'm saying is true and that will put their entire faith in question in their own minds. So rather than admit the truth, they'd rather live a lie and that's a guaranteed fact. So RWD the con artist will keep women in a state of unnecessary bondage when they could otherwise work and have their own career in the event that something happens to their husbands and it would help them be more financially stable. Misery likes company and that's the messed up part. You'd think these women would wake up but it seams that because they plan to live down and out for major portions of their lives, they want to bring as many other women along to experience the same mess. There is one person that I absolutely would not want to be in this world under any circumstances, (other than Tanya Kekel or Sis Davis); a woman in the NTCC. Women in the NTCC get played, used and abused and I don't care what the faithful ones say. They've been to blinded to recognize it. They've had their God given rights, stripped by the NTCC.
ReplyDeleteThe NTCC is misleading people and it's just that simple but if they are content on saying, "praise God, I'm on my way to heaven" and that makes them feel better than so be it. The only problem is they are actively recruiting people and really messing up folks lives in the process and that is why I have such a problem with that church and why I am vocal about it. If they'd just leave everyone else alone, I could care less about how they live. If these NTCC women are content to be treated as second class citizens, that's up to them, but stop trying to bring so many other folks into your cult while ruining their lives in the process.
Oh, I'm going to find you a husband Sister. One who is broke and a blind follower who has no real ambition in life other than to follows known hypocrites like Kekel, Davis and Olson. Who thanks, I'd be better off single.
ReplyDeleteThe Beacon - News / Chicgao Sun -Times Obituary for Rev. Ramirez has a guest book feature that scrolls through people's messages to the family: @
ReplyDeletehttp://legacy.suburbanchicagonews.com/obituaries/stng-beaconnews/obituary.aspx?n=eduardo-ramirez&pid=162924799
Or Click Here
Don and Ange
Click the Beacon News above.
ReplyDelete"Funeral services will be held Tuesday, February 12, 2013 at THE DALEIDEN MORTUARY, Aurora, Illinois at 10:00 AM. Rev. R.W. Davis will officiate according to the Daleiden Mortuary website"
ReplyDeleteI wonder if the family had to pay for R'Dub to officiate at the funeral. I remember it used to be customary when I was in the service that if you wanted him to come and see you, then you had better pony up because he wouldn't do it on his own dime. That's a bit cold, but it's the truth, nonetheless.
Mark G. wrote,
ReplyDelete"I wonder if the family had to pay for R'Dub to officiate at the funeral. I remember it used to be customary when I was in the service that if you wanted him to come and see you, then you had better pony up because he wouldn't do it on his own dime."
DnA say,
That's a valid question. I also remember davis stumping from the pulpit and lectern and in conferences that if you wanted his grand high poobahness to come shower his superapostle status on your congregation, you'd better "take up an offering" and buy his tickets, or he wouldn't show.
Can you imagine Jesus treating us that way? No? I couldn't either.
It gets worse, though. I remember reading once on Chief's blog the following comment [in bold]
Kristofer Moore said...
I was relaying this to someone last night, how selfish it is of Davis to fly like a bird to Arizona in the winter and require all those preachers to stay there and endure the cold. I hated the winters in Washington. So cold and miserable. I remember his secret departures. We all knew it was like secret intelligence and it was taboo to ask where he went. We could wind up getting him killed or thwart the program of God if too many people knew where he was, of course (so we thought). Who knows how many other mansions he has acquired over the years. I know that he came to Hawaii with the Kekels one year and showed up one time then we didn't even see them until they were getting ready to leave. Sis Kekel was talking to the people in the service like she was sad she had to go and hoped to return. They hadn't even been in a service that week. I was thinking, what are you talking about? These people probably don't even know who you are. You didn't spend any time with the church. We don't even know where you have been all week! Wish I could have just taken off for a week and not tell anybody where I was going when I was in the ministry! Oh wait, I didn't have any money to do that!
JULY 05, 2011 7:22 PM
@ http://truestoriesoflifeinthentcc.blogspot.com/2011/07/confused-and-misguided.html?showComment=1309908176611#c4278582272288114512
DnA say,
Did you catch that part about the big wigs flying in to Hawaii? They showed up one time and didn't come back until it was time to leave??? And "They hadn't even been in a service that week."
Sounds like the big wigs are just using the servicemen to pay for vacations to Hawaii. And Arizona. And who knows where? Vegas? Disney World? Europe? Branson?
How will you know? Don't you think you have a right to know where they go on your dime?
Thanks Cha-Cha-Cha Chief! Got it.
ReplyDelete"They hadn't even been in a service that week. I was thinking, what are you talking about? These people probably don't even know who you are. You didn't spend any time with the church. We don't even know where you have been all week! Wish I could have just taken off for a week and not tell anybody where I was going when I was in the ministry! Oh wait, I didn't have any money to do that!"
ReplyDeleteAnd the thing is, Tanya said it, complete with tears streaming down her cheeks, and all, just to make it look more "realistic".
FLASHBACK:HAWAII/1981::::: All of us got together and paid his way out. James Ashmore came out as well with him. I can remember everything being in "hushed" tones around them. But it's like you knew where the action was. Anyway, after a couple of days they just up and abruptly left. Even back then, For 2 people to come over to Hawaii it cost around $1,000.00 round trip. We paid for his and Sister Davis's airfare more than once to come out there just to get reamed out and crapped on. In all fairness to him, He did come out a month or 2 later and paid for it. I look back on that now and all I can do is shake my head, But, we were a bunch of gullible GI's back then. And oh, how he used to badmouth them/us!!! We couldn't do ANYTHING right! We were all a bunch of idiots, and had to much money AND time on our hands,and he was more than glad to help us in the parting of both! He has a house here in Glendale, Arizona. I go by there on occasion and there are people there, for sure. It's a pretty nice home,complete with an iron gate in the front, and a tall picket fence in the back. For someone who is the "General Overseer" or whatever his title is, He is way, way, WAY to secretive, and paranoid. It reminds me in many ways of the communist bloc countries in the 50's-70's.
When he came back a month or so later,YOU may not have paid for that trip; but I doubt that he did either. I would suspect he scheduled you as a stop on his way to Japan / Okinwawa so those Airmen and Marines could pay for that vacation.
ReplyDeleteIn all fairness to him, I don't think that there was a Serviceman's home back then in Japan. We are talking about 1981. I was a short timer back then. In so many ways it seemed like life was less complex then than it is now. But I'm not going to complain.
ReplyDeleteHey, I'm vacationing in Hawaii now (a sure sign I've escaped the borg); maybe I need to keep my eyes peeled at the beach for partying board members.
ReplyDeleteThis is state #49 for me; I spent so many hours in cars crisscrossing the country going to stupid NTCC conferences that I've nearly gotten them all knocked out. Still need to visit Oklahoma; it couldn't really compete this time as a vacation destination. Aloha!
Hello Vic, And good for you! My wife and I had planned on going to Alaska this year, But we decided to wait until next year. Alaska is 1 of the only states that we have not been to. It should be nice on a Goldwing Trike. I wonder if there is still an NTCC Church in Hawaii?
ReplyDeleteThere is. My old buddy Malsingh is there the last I knew. Man he was a good dude. Unfortunately I suspect that he's gotten pretty good at brainwashing people over the years. Man, the NTCC leadership takes good guys and turns them into monsters and more than not, they don't even know it.
ReplyDeleteMalsingh's were in Graham before I left. I dont remember who was in HI in there place.
ReplyDeleteKat, Thanks for the update.
Delete