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| How does your church make you feel? |
Click Here to read an excellent article about spiritual abuse.
This is another tragic story of spiritual abuse suffered by a couple in the ministry. This comes from a former ntcc Pastor and Missionary's wife.
While the ntcc does not consider a Servicemen's work overseas to be missionary work (so that the ntcc doesn't have to support [$$$] them), this couple labored in a foreign country for two years (just like missionaries) and during that time they were exploited and their personal needs were ignored to the point of personal crisis. This testimony is lengthy but on point; it will resonate with anyone who has been with this group. If you are in the ntcc read it carefully and allow it to speak to you. If you are a former member of the ntcc it will reinforce the decision you made to leave.
Unfortunately this is not an isolated incident. Others have shared bits and pieces of their own accounts that are similar to what Diana went through during her time in the ntcc. This one blog post goes a long way towards summing up what the ntcc is all about.
Diana Molino-Bullington shares the following testimony:
I'm thankful for these blogs, because, they showed me I am not alone.
Even after a year of telling Rev. Olson we couldn't handle it in England anymore, the best he could offer was, "We love you, God loves you, we are praying for you, and maybe, just maybe, you will have 100 people in service and someone might write a thousand dollar check."
Then you just press on, right?
But the fact remained, what he said never happened, and we were ready to leave.
My husband (now my ex) came to the conclusion he was not called to be a pastor, but a helper, and when he told Rev. Olson that, Rev. Olson said that at the next conference, we will get to talk with Pastor Davis about it. My husband was instructed to write down his thoughts on a piece of paper. We were invited to the Lodge for the first time, and there was a large group of church leaders and pastors and pastor's wives. We sat there in this awkward group of two circles, one with men, one with women, and it was mostly quiet. Pastor looked at the paper, and looked back up at my husband, but never said a word. At the end, Pastor Davis said goodnight to us and he never talked with us about it. We went back to England never having that talk we were told we would have, and Rev. Olson said that if Pastor didn't say anything to us, it's because God didn't tell him anything to say. Well, that told us enough.
They had no one to replace us when our two years was about up. They had plenty of time to work something out. He even asked us to extend our visas another two years! After we were adamant about not extending, he explained that they would've had someone sooner, but he said they still had to replace them and the ones replacing them still had to be replaced! There was a problem because someone that was supposed to replace someone, had left NTCC. Finally, my husband said he would extend, but I refused. Rev. Olson asked, "What about the church?" And I responded, "What about us?" Then Pastor Davis said they would close the church. This did not change our minds. This was about one month before our visas were to expire and we were told to sell everything, including the car, and moldy beds and stained sheets that were left to us. We stayed with a brother until it was time to leave. All Olson had a problem with at that time was the fact that he would've liked us to get a little more money for the stuff we sold to cover our plane tickets.
Later we found out through Pastor Davis himself, that the church in England was going downhill even before we got there. Before going, he had told us it's full time work, making it seem self sufficient, but then he admitted to knowing otherwise. He knew the 20-30 some church members were mostly all PCS'ing or getting out of the military about the same time we arrived there. Quite a few people did not understand why we went, even Mike Kekel said he originally didn't want us to go, and he even offered my husband a lay pastor position back in Graham. Mind you, this was after we said we were not coming back to Graham. He tried buying us with a position, which we did not want...by then, we were so sick of door knocking, to be brutally honest, how could we motivate a team to go!? We just wanted to see our family, the ones who were there for us emotionally through the whole time. Olson even asked me if I agree with my husband, and I told him I am 100% with my husband. Then, Sis Olson asked, for the first time in two years, to talk with me, and she cried out pleading for us to stay, but the damage was already done.
We began to read these blogs and realized many other good people were leaving, like the Reeds and the Butlers, and we saw people weren't afraid to question the leaders of this organization. We began to see very similar stories, how NTCC draws people in, and then takes advantage of them. We started looking back, to the beginning, and realized there were so many red flags that we ignored. Rev. Webster and his wife, in Germany, pastoring, even though Pastor Davis had said that Rev Webster told him he's a helper, and we thought that could be us, doing what the org wants, instead of what God wants.
I spoke with Tanya Kekel, telling her I had decided to start working a job, because I decided it's not a sin, just NTCC policy. She wanted us to come back "home" to Graham. I told her that I don't feel like being preached at about working and she said "many women here work". I said that may be true, but it is looked down at and preached against. She said it's never been preached against, at least by her husband. At that moment, I knew she was full of it. She knows very well what is taught. She had asked me if she wronged me, and I said no. I told her some of what happened and she said, "It seems your problem is with Rev. Olson, not us.
"Later, someone tells me that Tanya said to them, when they were leaving NTCC, "Just don't do what Diana did, she said I did nothing wrong, but then talks bad about us". Tanya knows very well, it's the organization, NTCC, that wronged us, and she is a big part of that. Some won't talk with me because I am a part of these blogs and because I talk against the org. Those two were my closest friends while in, and they know very well the pain I went through in England, and still tell me I am wrong for telling my story. Even when I decided to appease them and I said I would stop, neither kept their word. So, I decided to stop trying with them. Funny, they want me to not tell my experience, but they can talk all they want about me. I remember one person calling me in England, telling me, in almost a whisper, that we are allowed to go skating now. I wondered if Sis Webster knew. How silly, and yet, this is life in the NTCC, secretly lifting rules for some, and not telling others. I would never have known I could go skating if it wasn't for her telling me. That was a big deal to me, that if they are going to disallow us to do something, when they change their mind, they should tell us.
I decided to email my first pastor and his wife, because most of the red flags we noticed, were from them, and here are parts of the email:
"Someone told me that you said that we would probably have made it if Bro Bullington wasn't such a perfectionist. I told my ex what was told to me, and he said that "maybe we wouldn't have gone through all that we went through, if you didn't say in front of him, "I'm just waiting for Bro Bullington to realize he's called to preach". 
You told him things like, "I was praying for a leader" 
and lifted him up so much and he wanted to please you and God, and did whatever you wanted him to do.
and lifted him up so much and he wanted to please you and God, and did whatever you wanted him to do.
Even when it came to me.
From the very beginning, you told the congregation that if we want to date, we should ask the pastor, because he knows the people.
So, what do we do? Of course, we ask you. Why? You said if the pastor says to break that piano, you do it because he said to. You taught us to follow you blindly.
I remember first asking about Bro CJ Wallace. You quickly advised against dating him and plenty of times it was taught against any "mixed" relationship.
Then I asked about Bro Bullington.
Then I asked about Bro Bullington.
I definitely found him attractive, but really, I wanted to focus on God. But you taught so much about "you shouldn't go to bible school single". You put us together as a soul winning team. You had him pick me up for church instead of the Prentice's. You'd invite me and him out to eat.
You put us together as a soul winning team. You had him pick me up for church instead of the Prentice's. You'd invite me and him out to eat.
You put little things in our heads.
Like, when we went on our first date, and my ex didn't want to continue a relationship with me, and you told him he needs to apologize to me.
Then you told me he's waiting for me to ask him on a date. I even wanted you two there. Haha. I think though that that's because you told me a story of someone having their pastor there on their first date, probably putting it in my head so that I do the same.
I specifically remember, when I was doing the Atkins, and wanted to have a cheat snack, and you said in front of me to your wife, "I'm trying to do something here." You wanted me to continue losing weight.
I knew from that moment, you both were matchmaking us. I remember you telling your wife, "we're not supposed to be matchmaking". She'd agree.
Fiddler on the Roof MatchMaker on YouTube
But still, when we were considering not being together, and just being friends, you'd put us together soul winning. You made us a team, even though, you both know, that would be unacceptable in Graham, to put a single lady and a single man together soul winning. I mean, the singles couldn't even talk unless they had permission.
When you would tell us things like "any two Christians could work anything out" you were putting into our heads that, even though we don't feel like we should be together, we could make it work, for "the ministry", but it was really for "your own selfish desires".
I know the pressure the org puts on you guys out in the field, to send people to Graham, and a married couple at that!? Oh yeah, how exciting it is when a married couple shows up.
When someone spoke against you two at Graham, I always defended you guys, knowing full well that I was lying for you, but my husband would say that we don't want to get you in trouble, and if we say anything, we would be looked at as trouble makers.
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| In ntcc, it's ok to have your eyes open - as long as you keep your mouth shut! |
We sat in Pastor Davis' classes, and many times, he would teach how we, as pastors, are not supposed to get so involved in people's lives. Many times I wanted to tell him that everything he just said we shouldn't do, you guys did. He'd say, "don't go do laundry at their houses", and that's what we did. He'd say, "don't go on base with them" and that's what we did. Remember that, when I said I couldn't bring you to the commissary anymore, because we were making a lie? There were signs at the cash registers prohibiting civilians from doing their shopping there. How could we justify that!? Just because other pastor's wives do it? Funny how NTCC can make exceptions when it benefits them, especially financially.
I loved you guys and I know your love for me was genuine.
You guys did help me, a lot, and always made me feel safe and accepted. I will never forget you two being like parents to me. If I ever had the chance to sit down and talk with you guys, I would love to.
But, you know the marriage between my ex and I was a mistake.
You know you match made us.
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| That Look on Your Face When You Realize That Your Cult Leader Has Matched You up for Life With The Person They Thought was Right for You |
Please, if you don't agree, tell me, but if you are honest with yourselves, I think you will know the truth.
You didn't want us telling our family, that we were even dating, because they would talk us out of it. We didn't tell our family till two days before the wedding, when you told us it was okay. The church members were shocked because they didn't even know we were dating.
We suffered because of it.
Chickens Break Up Rabbits' Routine: on YouTube
In the following video, two potential love bunnies are following nature and are cavorting, or, as the bible says, "sporting" [Gen 26:8]. Suddenly two meddlesome chickens break up the rabbits' routine, adding a few extra pecks for good measure. This chicken and rooster are just like so many ntcc so-called 'leaders' who interfere with the natural order of relationships in which two adults think they like each other and proceed to date to determine if they want to marry or not. This dating process should be fun; and as Christians it can be innocent too. But ntcc so-called 'leaders' don't trust God enough to lead you Himself, so they match-make, interfering with God's work and the natural order of life. They are just like the chickens in this video as they break up the fun and then throw in a few mean pecks to establish dominance. They then strut off, shaking their tail feathers with not so much as a look back or a by-your-leave. Don't expect an apology from them. They are certain they are doing "the work of the Lawd". But they aren't. You just don't see this relationship manipulation in the New Testament.-- DNA
Watch it on YouTube
Our relationship was more of a "business" partnership. And it's because of you two convincing us we need to be together. Scaring us into not going to bible school single.
Yes, we made our own decisions, but we were definitely played by you guys.
As you know, we are divorced, and I know that God knows what we went through. I want to forgive you guys, but it's hard. I'm angry and hurt.
It was actually in England, while still in NTCC, we talked about divorce. We got back to the states in 2011, and by 2015, we finalized it. We knew it was all a sham, our marriage, from the very beginning. All the red flags we ignored. Things like this are why we believe NTCC truly is a cult. The tactics used to take advantage of people that just want to please the Lord and make it to heaven. There's a lot of good people in NTCC, but the persuasive tactics to get what they want for their program, supersedes what God wants in someone's life, and it's wrong.
You even convinced us not to have kids, "just in case they need us for servicemen's work". You made the Prentice's out to be disobedient when they had their kid. I remember, the Olson's were there, and the Prentice's were made out to be disobedient, because of it, saying that she is hindering him from his ministry.
Everyone that I have told this to, cannot believe a church would encourage their people to not have kids. Yes, we understand the reasons for not having a kid in a servicemen's home and we would explain that.
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| If Children Hinder the Work of God, How Did Jesus Find Time for Them? |
When kids started popping up everywhere in Graham, starting around 2008 or so, could you imagine all the jealousy and hurt that the older women, that didn't have kids, felt? Now it's okay to have kids, and they are popping them out everywhere.
My Ex and I tried for kids after leaving NTCC, and had complications. I HATE that I didn't get to have a kid before now. It hurts. The Bible speaks of children being a blessing, and I may never experience that, all because it didn't match up with YOUR agenda and the org's needs.
Even when Pastor Davis asked me if I want a kid, I said no. I knew, at that moment, it was a lie, a lie that I believed because I let you guys convince me that if I wanted a kid, I could possibly ruin my husband's chances at a ministry.
We just wanted to be usable, and in the end, we were used.
Yeah, we're taught that we need to encourage ourselves, but God gave pastor's for a reason, and sometimes, they are too controlling, and sometimes, they are not there for you at all. I got to experience both.
I will NEVER step foot back into an NTCC.
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Is my church abusive? Read More
***THE ONES ***
Of all that I've been through The pain Being taken advantage of My feelings were numbed My passions turned away Talked out of reality Convinced to be enslaved I became what they wanted I worked for their agenda They didn't care for me It was all about them Their rise, their gain But in the end, they lost it all All the trust, all the love The ones who gave all they could They say we gave up They say we lost out But in their darkest day When they face the Truth They'll know they're the ones Who will be turned away
Written by Diana Molino
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Is my church abusive? Read More
***THE ONES ***
Of all that I've been through The pain Being taken advantage of My feelings were numbed My passions turned away Talked out of reality Convinced to be enslaved I became what they wanted I worked for their agenda They didn't care for me It was all about them Their rise, their gain But in the end, they lost it all All the trust, all the love The ones who gave all they could They say we gave up They say we lost out But in their darkest day When they face the Truth They'll know they're the ones Who will be turned away
Written by Diana Molino
I just read this person's testimony on their experience in the NTCC. Once again, NTCC proves to be no more then a man driven organization where it's members set it up on equal or higher level than God Himself. I also left because of their meddling in my life where only God had a right and for sabotaging a personal walk with the Lord, all for the NTCC to rule supreme instead. I chose to not allow men to set themselves up as God in my life. Glad I left many years ago.
ReplyDeleteThere are so many dynamics that scream cult in this blog post. The relationship manipulation, the match making and the false calling placed on their lives by those who felt they knew what was better for them more than they or God did.
ReplyDeleteYou know you are in a cult when your pastor tells you if you want to date, you have to ask your pastor because he knows the people.
You know you are in a cult when your pastor "allows" you to tell your family that you are getting married two days before the wedding.
You know you are in a cult when the cult leader asks you to write on a piece of paper what your grievances are and then he sits there and stares at you and offers no help or solutions, leaving problems unresolved.
You know you are in a cult when the assistant cult leader, (Olson), tells you that if Davis didn't say anything than God didn't tell him anything to say. I think at this point in Davis' life it had been so long since God told him anything that Davis wouldn't know the voice of God if it thundered from heaven and exploded his ear drums. God didn't speak to Davis because Davis wasn't right with God not because God didn't have anything to say. God would have told Diana, "The best thing you could do is get out of this cult and get away from these phony hypocrites"!
You know you are in a cult when the cult leaders express their disappointment in you because they have to spend their money which is really your tithe money, to buy your return plane tickets home after you sold all you had and it wasn't enough to buy them yourself.
You know you are in a cult when the new cult leader's wife changes the rules and lies, telling you it's okay for women to work when they know good and well it was preached against for years.
You know you are in a cult when after you leave the cult, your best friends treat you like the plague. You find out that you really had no true friends.
You know you are in a cult when you are told: "If the pastor says to break that piano, you do it because he said to".
You know you are in a cult if they have to tell you Skating is okay now.
You know you are in a cult if you are in the ntcc. Wake up from your sleep ntcc'rs. If it looks like a duck, smells like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck. You are in a cult.
Have you ever noticed how that many who share their testimonies on this blog take ownership and include their names with their account of what they went through? It makes it much more credible when someone is willing to say who they are and what they went through. Diana put it all out there because she read the blogs and it helped her realize that things were wrong. In turn she wants people that know her to understand why she left. The ntcc no doubt has their lies prepared to discredit her when anyone asks why she left. Tanya was already spinning lies when she told someone else who was leaving not to do what Diana did proving that Tanya was lying having previously told Diana that she did nothing wrong.
ReplyDeleteHave you ever noticed that people who side with the ntcc, never leave their names? They know they are wrong or they are ashamed or afraid to say who they are. Their masters have told them that they are not allowed to be on the blogs and they are afraid that if they leave their names they will get in trouble with their cult leaders. Yet they are on the blogs and want to be heard. When they make a habit of doing and saying things that are wrong they don't want to be identified publicly. They post as anonymous, buddy or incredulous because they want to preach at others but deep down they are ashamed of their false doctrines and they know they are the ones that are not right with God. They operate out of shame and secrecy. What they do is shameful and they don't want to be identified.
You might be in a cult when you tell the cult leaders that you feel you are not called to be in the ministry and they ask you to stay anyway and renew your visas because the only person who is "qualified", (having no kids), to replace you, has to be replaced by someone "qualified" to replace him, and the person who is earmarked to replace the replacement has left the ntcc because they figured out it was a cult too.
ReplyDeleteWOW!!! I am so sorry Diana that you had to go through that. I totally understand going through a forced marriage. I went through one myself. It sounds like you feel robbed in life and rightly so. It is hurtful when they take advantage of your wanting to service God and use it for their own gain. When its the leader's child in England they can help but when its someone else there they won't. They say they don't lie yet they told you it was a full-time work in England you are going to when in fact it is not. They are such liars! It is horrible for them to have you sell some disgusting bed, sheets, and other stuff excepting you to come up with enough money for airplane tickets.
ReplyDeleteYea that is just like them to make you wait until two days before you are married to tell your family. For mine wedding no one outside the cult knew until a week after it happened. They claim they don't do matchmaking yet they do it all the time. They force some together and tell others they can't be together. Then they stand in amazement that marriages don't work. They make marriage a burden and they burden others with the inability to marry.
ReplyDeleteI was thinking this was going to be more horrible than it was but I think I figured out why. Diana sounds far and away more strong than the typical wife. I think reading this what I got out of it is the more honest and strong you are with yourself the more you'll be spared in terms of staying 5 years verses 35 years. I found this to be more of a normal story than one that's completely horrifying.
ReplyDeleteI'm happy for Diana and I hope she kicks some major butt in this new life.
Morning Diana. Really sorry to hear about your experiences and hurts you have because of this org. Thanks for sharing.
ReplyDeleteI pray you keep turning to God and the bible and really find the peace God wants for you and how He wants to restore you. There are so many scriptures dealing with this, for example, Joel 2:25-26 and Jeremiah 30:17. My wife and I dealt with so many hurts and pains from this org, but have since then, experienced so much love, understanding and hope from both God's word and a healthy church with people who actually love others.
There is hope and there is a healing in Jesus. You're not alone.
Edna and I were similarly matched up. RW dissuaded her from reconciling with her first "sinner" husband so he could hook us up instead. He even instructed her to ask me "when are we getting married?" when I didn't move fast enough for him. Well, in that environment, there is no resisting these influences, and we were married in short order, having spent zero time alone (except they did permit us to go together to get the marriage license) and probably less than ten hours in actual conversation. A month later, we were on the road to Fairbanks, Alaska in my beat up Honda Civic. It was insane. My head was already spinning as a brand new husband and dad, and now I had to cram in the pioneer pastor and job-seeker roles too. That anyone would even try such an endeavor is a testament to the strength of the mind control NTCC exerts. What kind of organization would even think of putting anyone in that situation?
ReplyDeleteWe've been married 33 years as of last month, but it's not because we're compatible; we've just taken a "glass half full" approach to a very difficult situation and made things work. In Myers-Briggs terms, I'm an INTP, and she's an ISFJ. Google that and just imagine the challenges two such people would face if they were paired up. The only thing we had in common was the org, so we have had to work hard to remain together. I'd be lying if I said we both haven't questioned the wisdom of that strategy, but at this point in our lives we aren't too inclined to start over. We both can't help but fantasize about what it would be like to be married to real soul mates, but I expect we'll never know. The only consolation is that it could have been worse; we've seen other pairings that were even less workable.
I wouldn't hold divorce against anyone NTCC matched up; the blame belongs to old Rodger Dodger (who hid from us the fact that he was on his second marriage). He was a true creep and manipulator that finally did the world a favor and croaked. Good riddance.
What is incredibly unfortunate is that my husband, Branden, is grossly misrepresented here in this post. Diana is no longer his wife, and we have asked to have space so that he can move on from the mistake of their marriage and the mistake of NTCC. Yet, WITHOUT HIS PERMISSION, you have PUBLISHED HIS NAME on this blog. The accusations here are one-sided in regards to after he left the church, and it's defamation of character. He's been through ENOUGH. I agree - it's important to share your testimony - but for the people who run this blog to not have considered my husband's personal privacy and time to heal and move on from the trauma of NTCC, it makes you no better than those who are still in the church. Why was this not edited to be from Diana's perspective ALONE?! Why did no one reach out to my husband and I to see if we wanted his/our names on this? Diana isn't even a Bullington anymore. Please edit this post to respect us and our time to move on from the trauma of the church. I don't mind the story being shared, as I have left a cult-like church as well. I get that good could from that. BUT PLEASE TAKE OUR NAMES OFF THIS POST AND RESPECT OUR PERSONAL PRIVACY! Diana does NOT speak for Branden and I.
ReplyDeleteJennifer,
ReplyDeleteWe took Branden's name completely out of this post only because Diana asked us to. We are not removing the last name because it was Diana's legal last name and she is every bit entitled to mentioning it because she lived with that name for years and also that is how she was known while in the ntcc. In your zeal to reprove us you attached your husbands name to this blog post in this comment. Do not get upset at Diana, because she asked us to remove his name and you have reinserted his name by commenting. Your comment is one of the most condescending and insulting comments that we have ever published on our blog. You are very presumptuous if you think that we need your permission to mention Branden's name on this blog.
In your comment you said that we grossly misrepresented Branden but you failed to provide any substance as to what we said that misrepresented him. Are you denying that Branden did the things that Diana said he did, or are you just mad because we published the truth? We have no reason to believe that Diana lied to us. Diana was also very gracious about Branden in her remarks saying that he never meant to hurt her and that she didn't hold any of this against him.
Jennifer, you are no longer welcome to comment on this blog and we don't want any of your nasty emails like the one you sent us that we could publish publicly on this blog if we wanted to. If you want Branden's name removed from these comments we will be glad to remove every mention of him if he mans up and contacts us himself and politely explains how we misrepresented him. If he denies it, he can tell us his version of what he believes to be a one sided misrepresentation. There are two sides to every story. We get that. However what was shared was common place in the ntcc and a lot of husbands have treated their wives much worse than Branden. I don't believe you were present when this happened so your accusation that we misrepresented Branden isn't credible at all. This blog post wasn't even about Branden. He was mentioned very briefly but in a very small portion but it is more about what she went through in the ntcc. Don't blame Diana for anything we write because she did what you asked. We are the ones you now have a problem with.
If Branden admits to hitting on women in front of Diana and making her cry while he was drunk, then he should apologize to her. You've accused us of defaming Branden's character, but what about Diana's character? Did she deserve to be humiliated in public by Branden? You haven't denied that this happened. Were you there when this happened? We will gladly remove all mention of his name, which you brought up, if he contacts us via email or in a comment on this blog and comes clean. Having his wife make excuses for him is not good enough. You said that you are his "real wife", implying that Diana wasn't. It sounds like sour grapes and that this whole thing could have been avoided if you weren't so bitter and angry. Oh I forgot, we are the bitter and angry ones according to you.
Diana wrote a lot about her experience and very little about Branden. Since we deleted his name from the blog post, we are not interested in publishing comments about him. This is not about Branden. We are not judging him and we are not condoning his part in all this. We are "moving on" from him as a topic, so if you want to comment on the hundreds of other issues raised by Diana's testimony, please feel free to do so.
ReplyDeleteWe can talk about the culture in the ntcc. For instance how the ntcc sends people overseas and promises to support them and lies to them about it being a full time work when they know most of them are military rotating back to the U.S.
We can talk about how Davis and others match-make people and convince them to marry the wrong person for life sending them out into the ministry to fail.
We can talk about Olson the Enabler who assures them that everything will be great. You'll have a hundred people in church and maybe one of them will write you a great big fat check so you can pay tithe on it and we can celebrate good times here in Graham.
We can talk about how manipulative Davis was in the lodge when he has people segregated in gender based circles writing down their issues on a piece of paper so that he can stare at them and make them feel bad while he offers not a stitch of hope or support, nor does he counsel them in any way. Olson later tells them that if Davis didn't say anything than God didn't have anything to tell them. What a crock! Davis and Olson are so out of touch with God they are like Eli who needed the child Samuel to deliver God's message of impending doom to him.
There are tons of great topics we can talk about.
How about how long it takes the ntcc to replace someone and how they need to move 20 people around to different churches to find someone qualified to replace someone overseas when the replacements are leaving the cult? That's a good topic.
How about how they expect the exiting preacher and his wife to sell moldy mattresses to come up with money to buy a plane ticket because they are too cheap to pay their way back to the states?
How about how Olson's wife got involved and pleaded for them to stay?
With all the great topics, why use Branden as the only topic they can find to talk about that will cast doubt and take away from all the great points that were made by Diana in this blog post?
What about Tanya Kekel who lies continually about the ntcc never telling women that they can't work? That's a really good topic. And how about how Tanya threw Olson under the bus by telling Diana that her problem was with Olson and not with them. They did the same thing with Davis saying that people were confusing policies with rules so that Grant could wear lascivious clothing to sporting events which were also frowned upon for everyone else's kids.
Or how about breaking pianos at the pastor's request just because he is a pastor? If that is not cult jargon, what is?
Man, there is a treasure trove of topics that can be discussed in this blog post, so we are not going to allow it to be hijacked by someone who never spent a day in this cult and want's to manipulate this blog by talking about how awful we are for not asking her permission to mention her new husbands name. We hope that this new marriage works better than the last one. Maybe these two were meant to be together. If that's the case than good for them. So long, good bye, don't cry.
I could go on all day about the "replacement issue" they've had. Not only are they not replacing people but no one is graduating that worthless school to replace anyone. They aren't grooming young graduates to cope with a ministry. There are no minor leagues.
ReplyDeleteIt's straight into the fire... Maybe you'll be a helper for a while but eventually you'll be a straight slave to NTCC... Helpers have it rough but Preachers are sort of the Corporal of the church... All the work is on their shoulders and all of the blame and responsibility.
Hope you enjoy those 2 AM phone conversations about your weekly tithe and numbers if Olsen so chooses to call you.
Quite a testament of "Gods last move on earth."
ReplyDeleteI don't know what they used to graduate but I can't imagine 5 or 6 guys are able to replace the losses they are currently enduring.
ReplyDeleteSo if they suffer a loss of 3 preachers and three helpers this year they'll have to replace them with single guys or helpers not called to preach or even one of the new graduates... HMMM I find it unworkable or at least a situation that will deteriorate at a faster and faster clip.
I could care less so long as the Vikes kick the Eagles straight in the face.
Oh yes I remember the whole guilt trip thing over having babies. I remember the big deal that was made after I was married and had my son. I was ruining the ministry. Which was and is so ridiculous. Now for me they had already said not being healed among other things in my life had ruined my father's ministry. It is just crazy the ideas these people come up with to burden people.
ReplyDeleteThere's lots of good topics to discuss and one is the way the kkls are trying to distant themselves from olsons mnistry.
ReplyDeleteYou'd think that they would have olsons back just like he did with their father rw! Olson said in a conference way back that the first think he did when waking up was pray for rw and then rws wife then tk and so on down the ntcc line, I mean isn't this worthy to at least have give this man some respect?
Sounds like tk was playing " good cop, bad cop" when she told diana their problem was with olson, not them!
Sounds like there's some bad blood with the 2 families, olson vs kekel.
Julie, I love the last line of your statement...
ReplyDeleteSo true!!! The burdens bordered on insanity...
Mike
Diana I admire your strength. There are so many huge issues here that you touched on. Especially being a match-made couple, then the criticisms for being an inter-racial one at that. It's stomach churning to think about.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said:
ReplyDelete"Sounds like there's some bad blood with the 2 families, olson vs kekel."
DNA said:
Every con man has a hype man. Olson has always been Davis' hype man. I'm sure it's the same for the Kekels. MuCK threw Davis under the bus and now he's throwing Olson under the bus. Olson don't care. That's part of his role as hype man. The ntcc is set up like that. There is always a hype man. Even in the local churches the workers are hype men for the local pastors. Their job is to help establish idol like reverence for the hirelings who lord over the flock. Olson is considered by many to be filling Davis' shoes but Davis was "retired" and enjoying his wealth while Kekel and his lying wife ran the show. Kekel is the heir apparent and the bylaws were changed to reflect that. Olson's role is the same.
Olson is extremely wicked. He has always been an enabler and he existed to cover up all of Davis' scandals. I doubt if there is bad blood between Olson and the Kekels. Olson's role has always been one that builds up an idol worshiping atmosphere in the ntcc. The idol used to be Davis, and now it's the Kekels. Most ntcc'rs can't stomach the thought of Kekel being the pastor of the ntcc, so Olson temporarily meets the same need that Davis met and that is for the ntcc pastors to have someone to follow and admire. Olson don't care if he gets thrown under the bus. Olson was always there for Davis when Davis needed someone to cover his sins. Olson was a lot like Ashmore. Davis used him to destroy anyone who became a threat to him. Davis surrounded himself with people who worshiped the ground he walked on. As far as Ashmore and Olson were concerned, the sun rose and set on Davis' butt. They could care less who they had to destroy to protect Davis, and they destroyed a lot of people. People who questioned him, people who could expose him for who he was. While they were doing his dirty work for him by covering up all of his illicit sexual sins, Davis was maintaining his public image as God's appointed apostle in the last move of God on earth, the ntcc. What a joke!
So do these guys think of themselves as Christians or hucksters? Do they even know what they are? I'm almost thinking they have bought into their own hype.
ReplyDeleteOne comment reads: " I was thinking this was going to be more horrible than it was". Huh???
ReplyDeleteIt amazes me that people would think that what this lady went through isn't that bad.
Whoever wrote that comment doesn't seem to grasp the ordeal that Diana went thru!
Her marriage ended in divorce and the possibility of her having kids is not good so is this not that terrible?
I would hope that whoever made these comments think about what they wrote.
They say her story isnt that horrifying.
Really?
Anon, I don't think the writer is minimizing Diana's experience by saying " it wasn't as horrible". They were talking about how she made it out through strength and perseverance, and has maintained her intestinal fortitude.
ReplyDeleteDiana,
Don't worry about your friends. They are probably as scared as we all once were.
I caught that too about not that bad. I hope it reads more heartless than what was intended. It may have been meant to communicate that the experience is common in NTCC rather than not tragic.
ReplyDeleteThe NTCC's meddling in relationships, careers and family planning are serious, life changing manipulations. The emotional, spiritual and financial damage perpetrated by NTCC cannot be overstated. They SUCK.
Eric
Pedophilia is the worst of the worse, but nobody goes to a church expecting any kind of abuse. You go for the spiritually uplifting experience but in the ntcc it's more like a house of horrors than a church. Who goes to church thinking, "I hope the preacher gets in my face today and humiliates me in front of a whole bunch of people". Or, "I can't wait to go to church so the pastor can tell me that my kids are of the devil and my wife is rebellious and I need to isolate myself from all of my evil friends and acquaintances because they will tell me I'm in a cult when they find out I'm giving thousands of dollars a year to a preacher so he can by a 2017 BMW.
ReplyDeleteMan we must have had "SUCKER" stamped across our foreheads. How dumb do you have to be to shop for your clothes at a kook store so you can afford to give till it hurts to some huckster that pretends to be the only called minister who loves souls and lives holy in a particular city? I remember the arrogant ntcc preachers who said, "If there was someone in this city doing God's will there would be a need for God to send us here", as if every other minister in town was a hypocrite and they were God's chosen oracle for a city of over one million people. Obviously the preacher who was expected to go there had a different burden than the ones that the poor new minister sent the lion share of money to back to in Graham. The fat cats in Graham had visions of new cars and bigger mansions, while the ntcc naive minister wanted to set the world on fire and win souls to God. That only lasted a little while because Davis would come through and jack them up for their lack of a vision for the lost and their struggles to achieve money and numbers. Now they send some loser like Tieman to do that.
What Diana went through was spiritual abuse on many different levels. It's horrifying when it happens to you. We've all been through a lot. The longer we stayed in the ntcc, the more abuse we endured. That abuse was accelerated exponentially in the lives of those who went to bible school and into the ministry. Diana was one of the few who stood up to them before she left. MDR confronted Davis several times. Diana confronted Tanya Kekel about women working. Tanya lied to her because Tanya is a liar, just like her father and her husband. The entire ntcc organization was built on lies. Most of us chose to shut off our brains and blindly follow them. We internalized everything and blamed ourselves for everything that went wrong. This is what a cult wants you to do. If you leave a cult, blaming yourself, there is no backlash on said cult. They would rather have you leave and spend the rest of your life thinking you are condemned to hell, than to admit that their rules were lies and their control over your lives quenched your spirit and extinguished any fire from God that you might have once had in your life and pushed you away.
ReplyDeleteTo this day there are people who left the ntcc that are afraid of them and they blame themselves for what happened to them. They were loyal to them in life and they'll take that loyalty all the way to the grave, rather than expose them for what they are. What they are in fact doing is enabling the ntcc to abuse more people. We know that for every person who shares the horrifying details of what they went through, there are many who keep it inside. Many lie to themselves and blame themselves for what happened. This is why the ntcc is allowed to exist and continues to destroy lives.
Is Diana's testimony as horrifying as someone who has been molested or raped? God knows about the personal hell that we've all been through. It's not a contest to see who can be pushed the farthest or who can be abused the most. There are cults that are more controlling and more manipulative than the ntcc in many ways but when you are the recipient of unnecessary spiritual abuse it is horrifying to you and others that have been through the same thing. Many of us can identify with Diana and thank God she shared it publicly. It's one more confirmation that helps us realize that what the ntcc does is wrong and not of God.
What the ntcc does as well as any other organization is place people in hell with their false teachings and they make people think there is no hope for them outside of their organization. The ntcc commits their share of crimes against children and crimes against women. They harbor pedophiles and reward the adulterers and whore mongers. They enable the rapist and the child molesters. They keep these types around and have unlimited mercy for them while they destroy the lives of people who don't pay tithe.
ReplyDeleteThere are many levels of sick things that they do. One of the worst things you can do to a person is take away their hope and take away their freedom. Christians are not free in the ntcc. They place a yoke of bondage on each person who gets saved. They use their own system of rules and control by brain washing them and channeling all of their energies into purposes that best serve their own lusts and desires. They use people to obtain wealth. Davis would look at people and think, "How can I use this person"?
When someone publicly shares what they have been through it is very liberating for them and for those who have suffered in like manner. We sat in service after service and were berated by professional hucksters. We were conned out of our money and our future. We don't marginalize people who have the character and fortitude to come forward and call these phony, Pharisaical, hypocritical false teachers out. Diana wants people to know what she went through and she was not afraid to own her testimony by signing her name to it. This not only speaks for her character but it gives credibility to her testimony. We wish everybody would show this level of commitment. If Ashmore would be as honest as Diana, he could bring down the ntcc, but he would bring himself down in the process. There is no way for Ashmore to condemn the ntcc with condemning himself.
The ntcc is not going to change as long as people like the Kekels and Olson continue to run it. Each time someone calls them out they get weaker. They are not a healthy and thriving organization. Their board is riddled with self inflicted wounds and their hypocrisy stinks to the high heavens. More and more people are finding out what they are all about and leaving. Each time X-members come forward and publicly share their life stories of abuse it exposes the ntcc. Diana and all the others who have spoke out were all once known and loved by those still inside the cult. We were all once loved and accepted of them but when we left we became their enemies. We are hated for sharing the truth. We are despised for being honest. But what does God think about all this? Isn't that more important than anything else? Does God want us to live a lie? Does God want us to ignore the abuse and pretend it never happened? Many of us considered the ntcc members to be brothers and sisters. Would God be proud of us if we left our brethren behind enemy lines to die on the battlefield? Do you think that God would want us to enjoy our freedom while we watch others suffer needlessly? The ntcc teaches lies and false doctrines. You mean to tell me that Kekel and Olson know more about the bible than Jesus or Paul who never once condemned a person for not paying tithe? They never collected tithe so why would the ntcc? They lie to you about tithe. What else do they lie to you about? Why do you ntcc'rs sit there and allow them to engorge themselves with your money while you live from paycheck to paycheck? They laugh at you when they go to the New Mercedes dealership and pick out their new hundred thousand dollar cars. Your money isn't going towards souls. Your money isn't building the kingdom of God.
ReplyDeleteThere are people that used to work in the office and know where all the money went. They know the corruption but you will not hear a peep from them. That's their prerogative. They are enjoying their freedom while others continue to suffer. There are others who know intimate details about the pain and suffering the ntcc has caused but they don't share it. They don't have the stomach to go public and people suffer because of it.
We understand the fear involved. Most people are anonymous for various reasons and we respect that, unless you are hiding behind the anonymous tag and lobbing hand grenades at those who are putting themselves out there on the front lines of this war. We do make it our business to do everything we can to provide a safe place for people to share what they have been through.
We have been attacked in the past for not publishing every comment. We do publish stuff we don't always agree with but there are somethings that we won't publish. Personal attacks are not welcome especially those directed towards contributors to this blog. There have been some against the daughter in law of the Tiemans and some against Diana that we haven't published. Some of these comments were down right ugly. We also don't publish stuff that takes our blog in a different direction than it's going. For instance, recently we had a series of comments about Denis that were completely unrelated to the topic at hand. We published one or two of them and ignored the rest because the Ashmore blog post wasn't about Denis. Many times we also will not publish dissenting comments with no substance. It's a waste of time. If you want disagree that's fine, but add something substantive to the conversation. Tell us why you disagree. Don't tell us that we are just as bad as the ntcc without qualifying your statement. What makes us just as bad as them? For instance, if we were getting rich or benefiting in some way similar in fashion than we have a conversation. But just saying we are as bad as them is like a sixth grade argument. We are not interested in arguing about your insults.
ReplyDeleteMany of us have had our share of being berated and belittled by the ntcc. This is not the forum for that. If you want to preach at us, start your own blog. We do not have a monopoly on blog space. We are anti-cult and anti-ntcc. We are not here to advance their causes or to justify their deeds. They do not waste one breath trying to help one person that they've run off. They do not waste one breath apologizing to the former members that they have harmed. They make excuses to justify their actions. This blog is here for the purpose of giving a voice to those who have suffered because of the actions of the leaders of the ntcc. Why would we want to allow someone to use our blog as a platform to further tear down someone who has done contributed to our cause? Our cause is exposing the fraud in the ntcc. Our war is helping those who were beaten down and left for dead by the ntcc. It's a war. We know who the enemy is. We know their tactics. They are not on God's side. Their doctrine is laced with lies and deceit. They have left a wake of carnage and destruction behind them. They have no value or use for someone who they have used up. They think nothing of destroying families and driving wedges between friends.
Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to join in with your voice of truth and expose the ntcc for what they are, so that others will not have to suffer.
Ntcc shatters lives, plain and simple. They break up families, they control marriages, they will make the strong minded person believe they are no good. They will lie about you and accuse you of doing things you never did. They use fear tatics to bully the strong into submission. They will call you a bad mother or father and accuse you of neglecting your children, while they are the ones who take up all your time, some night your out "soul winning" until 10. How can you properly take care of your family or yourself if you run everyday for them? I was chided by one pastor for not going to ladies soul winning on my day off. I stood my ground and said I've worked the last 11 days in a row, I'm taking this day to run errands and be with my kids. He was mad and condemned me, but I felt such peace not being there, and just taking one day for myself and my kids. I was denied job promotions because I wouldn't open up my schedule at work. But I adhered to all their services and jumped through hoops for that church. They will use you until the moment you begin to loose faith in them, a little light flickers and you realize these people are not God, they are just people. Why do they deserve so much power and authority? Do you not think God himself can lead and guide you? Do you really need a man telling you God said this or that, this is what you should do. They accuse innocent people of doing all sorts of evil, yet their big wigs get up and parade their sin right in front of you. Are you not blind, how many countless people, good men and women, you knew in your heart loved God, who had big hearts, they are sent out, and the next time you see them in their youth they look worn and frail, the light is dimming in their eyes, and you wonder what happened to their fire. It was sucked out of them by people who refuse to help. All the church that church is is a name on the door they do not provide financial assistance to those who need help, they didn't even pick up the phone. In my dire hours I reached out and they were not there for me, yet I was always there for them. They left us in a strange city to fend for ourselves with very inadequate training. We are not taught how to deal with suicidal people, or people who have subtance abuse problems, you know nothing when you are sent, nor are you legally qualified to help some of the people you meet. And in your dire need of someone being there, a phone call of encouragement any tangible hope that they are there, they were all to busy rolling to Hawaii or Grease or whatever trip they afforded. We were told from the pulpit not to go camping with our families, yet they can go to Grease for 3 weeks because they served God for so long. All their garage will eventually back fire, the wheels are justice are slow, but you as an organization continue to lie about good people, you call them all sorts of names, you tear down their character, and you parade the very sins you accused them of right there in the church, people know you are wrong and they are starting to see it. They are leaving by the droves, I pray to God there is a mass exodus from that place. God is good NTCC is not, you will not die and go to hell for leaving, you will find who God really is. God loves you, he wants good things for you, he doesn't want you to suffer alone in silence any more. Every single story I have read or have heard is heart breaking, all on different varying degrees. Only those who left can truly understand your pain, it's time those of us who got out stand in unity and not remain silent. Our stories are imoortant, it takes time to be strong enough to share it, be prepared for some NTCC negative comments, they are trash talkers unwilling to admit maybe their system is a sespool of corruption. Thank you Diana for sharing your story, I wish you peace and healing, this took courage and you will help enlighten someone along the way.
ReplyDeleteOne thing I never understood was how ntccers could bad mouth a sinner who lies, yet tolerate a preacher who habitually lies about church members. i remember arguing with a preacher about an egregious lie he had said about me in front of the whole church. guess he thought i was that afraid of him not to defend myself. thank God a brother was able to chime in and back up my story in front of everyone. did the pastor apologize, nope! he just preached about the lie! smh! its not a sin to defend yourself or family
ReplyDeleteDiana,
ReplyDeleteI wanted to thank you for sharing your story. What a nightmare!Once again we see ntcc's true colors when they tell you to find someone to pawn off a bunch of old junk furniture at rip off prices so you can get tickets home to your own country. What kind of organization does that? A no good greedy one, that is for sure.
You sacrifice everything to go to a foreign land because they need someone to run their business interests, then when it is time to come home they want to make it a hassle over how the tickets are paid for? They sent you there, they should pay to bring you back.
What I want to know is why did they not buy your tickets with the escrow money? They could not even be fair enough to use the escrow money to help you get home? I am sure they was at least ten's of thousands of dollars tucked away in an escrow account funded with money from the church in England. What happened to all of that money? Where is it now that ntcc no longer has a church in England?
I am sure kekel could tell us how he stole the money and re-appropriated it...
I bet Kekel didn't have to sell any moldy mattresses to make that trip to Greece. I'm sure he didn't sleep on any either. He's probably saving the England money for his next all expense paid vacation. Him and Tanya can probably be found on a beach somewhere drinking Mai Thai Cocktails eating bon bons while everyone else is out knocking on doors trying to save one more soul from eternal flames.
ReplyDeleteThe last three anonymous comments were really good. I bet the Kekels hate it when people bring light to their evil deeds. They are superficial money grubbing double standard hypocrites and they don't like it when they are publicly exposed for their own lies. I wonder how the Kekels would respond if Jesus asked them to sell all of their possessions and give them to the poor and follow him? They would no doubt respond like the rich ruler responded. They would go away sorrowful because they love their possessions more than God. They sure don't want to give them to the poor. The Kekels despise the poor. When is the last time you have ever heard of Kekel doing anything for the poor?
ReplyDeleteThese scoundrels wash their hands of any responsibility by claiming they don't send anyone anywhere--God does. That sounds all pious, but RW routinely would tell people to "pray about going to (insert city)." We knew what that meant, because he broke it down for us. He stated, from behind the pulpit, that if he told us to pray about going someplace, it meant that God had already dealt with him about it. So if you didn't get confirmation when you prayed, it only meant that you were out of touch with God, because the "apostle" already had the revelation. Then when everything falls apart and you're stranded in Timbuktu with no money, they just blithely state that "you said God was sending you," when it was just them telling us that it was what God wanted. They have many such manipulative tactics, and when you trust in them and think they love you, you succumb. One of the best days of your life will be the day you wake up and understand that NTCC isn't a spiritual endeavor which exists to help people, but a soulless machine designed to misappropriate wealth for an elite few from the deceived and oppressed masses. It's an old story, and they're just another example. You certainly won't be departing from God by escaping the greedy clutches of these no good lowdown conniving grifters that violate every tenet of the Christian faith for their own gain. Do it today!
ReplyDeleteOne thing you could always be sure about rwd - he would find someone else to blame for everything that went wrong. I think it is time we correct the record about who is to blame for EVERY preacher or preacher's wife who quit the ntcc ministry while rwd was still alive...rdw was the real failure; rwd is the one to blame.
ReplyDeleteHe called himself their pastor, he claimed to be a Doctor of Divinity, he claimed to be a great teacher, he claimed to be some kind of modern day Moses who heard directly from God about everything and everyone...
If rwd was even 1/2 the things he led people to believe he was, his success rates would have been better. You wasted three or four years of your life going to rwd's bible school of rules, then the supposedly all knowing rwd told you where God himself wants you to go minister. How can you fail?
Everyone who "failed" ntcc's sham ministries can lay the blame at the feet of rwd - because he did not do his job, he was not what he claimed to be, and most of the time rwd knew he was setting people up for failure and later use the excuse that said individual simply did not listen to him.
As far as I can tell, by 30 years after someones exposure to ntcc's life sucking ways, at least 95% of people quit. So we could say as a pastor, teacher, leader rwd had a 95% failure rate. It will be the same or worse under the current leadership. The best thing they could do is just admit they are failures and close down.
Oh, I know how they tolerate preachers that bear false witness! When confronted, ntccer's say "im serving God, not man!"pffft!
ReplyDeleteWe've added a cute yet instructional video (with commentary by DNA) to this blog post. Look for the bunnies and chickens, receive instruction, and be wise. LOL. Didn't God put the things of nature all around us as evidence of His will and work? Some things are meant to be so simple, so natural, yet the ntcc twists and mars everything, making even the most beautiful things in nature convoluted because of their meddling man-made ways and traditions that they teach, making the word of God of none effect.
ReplyDeleteOne problem I noticed was the preachers will play favorites. If a golden boy member says something bad about a lesser member the preacher will preach on that topic and embarrass him/her.
ReplyDeletePastor wives, helper wives act outrageous as well. Pastor wives hate helper wives who are more liked by the members.
It seems all set up for the sole purpose of dissention. Part of the beat down I guess???
What a mess! I am so glad Imleft when I did. I want to say it again, thank God I listened and left when I did !
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said:
ReplyDelete"Oh, I know how they tolerate preachers that bear false witness! When confronted, ntccer's say "im serving God, not man!"pffft!"
DNA said:
The ntcc'rs are definitely false witnesses. They continue to preach tithe or hell doctrine which is a lie. They get rich while you get poor. The ntcc lies to good people. Those good people become part of the lying culture in the ntcc. When an ntcc pastor says to "break that piano", and "you do it because he says to", you are living a lie. You don't do things just because some religious nut tells you to do them. In the ntcc, if you disobey your pastor, you are rebelling against God even if the pastor is wrong. This is a lie. Davis used to test the loyalty of ministers by asking them to do dishonest things that were completely wrong. He asked Philandering Phil Kinson to throw garbage out the window of his car to test his loyalty. He had Ballard chop the heads off of a litter of puppies to test his loyalty all because Davis didn't want those puppies around. He could have called the SPCA, but he'd rather use this slaughter of life to test a preacher. Davis had Ashmore spiritually assassinate people to cover up his own sin. They are liars. They make a lie. They live a lie and they cause others to lie and live a lie.
Tanya Kekel is a pathological and habitual liar. Tanya told an outright lie to Diana, saying that women working has never been preached against by her husband.
This was pointed out by DS/GS and was a quote taken directly from Kekel's blog:
"One of the biggest enemies of aging Ministers is their fear that they won’t be taken care of in their old age. This fear causes them to resort to secular education and employment, abandoning the call of God; but the key is taking care of their old age, in their youth. Then, the wives go on jobs too, which is against the bible, and they find that the same spending habits that got them into the mess, rob them of happiness, even with a double income."
Tanya is an outright pathological and habitual liar. People in the ntcc are living a lie. This proves it.
Bro Bellamy shared these ntcc rules on Chief's blog in 2012:
ReplyDelete"Examples of NTCC becoming a Lord over God’s heritage…
You can only wear white shirts to preach.
You must wear a belt when leaving your house.
You cannot have facial hair.
You must ask permission to fellowship, call, or do anything with anyone.
You cannot get gas or go to the store after your seminary class.
You cannot refuse to leave where you live and buy a house without being rebuked from the pulpit and being told that you love your house more than God.
Seminary students have to ask for permission to date someone and can only have any contact with them during fellowship in a seat against a wall, and if Pastor Davis is out of town or decided no one can talk that evening then you cannot until he decides you can.
Wife cannot work on a job.
Preachers cannot fellowship with members.
A preacher should not go to secular college, because he is neglecting his ministry.
And there are many other rules that are so stupid and degrading to an adult.
Children hinder the work of God
You cannot ask another preacher to see if they can come and be a helper with you at your church without being rebuked openly from the pulpit at conference."
This stuff is not made up. I don't care how many times Tanya and Mike Kekel lie about what is preached in the ntcc, people aren't stupid as they would have you to believe. They want to convince you that you don't know what you are talking about or that they have not done the things that hundreds of people have claimed. They are liars and deceivers. And yet, people will follow them by the droves and give their money to them while they laugh all the way to the bank.
Bryan Hill said:
ReplyDelete"What a mess! I am so glad Imleft when I did. I want to say it again, thank God I listened and left when I did !"
DNA said,
We are glad you left too, Bryan! You are much better off without the ntcc meddling in your life. You are much more likely to have a healthy relationship with God outside of the ntcc, also. If you want to be a law abiding citizen, you don't hang out with a bunch of horse thieves. If you want to be honest, you don't hang around with liars. If you want to be forgiven, you don't hang around a bunch of unmerciful hypocrites. If you want a life long relationship you don't allow a cult like the ntcc to match make you with someone who isn't right for you. You don't allow a bunch of adulterers to tell you who to date and who you can talk to.
The reason we bring up adultery is that the ntcc uses it to shun people, while they play the mercy card for themselves. They judge everyone for every sin, but when you bring up their sin, they play the mercy card and act like we don't understand God's grace and forgiveness. God is merciful and He's forgiven people for much more than many of us could ever think of doing, but the ntcc does not have this quality. They use the very things that they are guilty of against you and expect you to come groveling back to them as if your salvation depended on their forgiveness. They are hypocrites and liars. They use the ministry to enrich themselves. They destroy good people and their families while they profit from them. Do they think that God doesn't see through their lies?
In reference to the "in crowd", I too noticed that sisters who were in good could gossip with no consequences while everyone else was a sinner going to hell. I was accused of being a lesbian on more than one occasion.
ReplyDeleteThe other lady doing it was dating the helper so no one questioned her statements.
Yea, and I despise the whole "in crowd" mindset. I have never seen butt kissing like I saw it in the NTCC. Don, my life has been much better out of this controlling organization. I know that people in the NTCC will automatically think I am on my way to hell, nothing could be further from the truth. The only way I could be on my way to hell is if Jesus didn't die to save sinners and doesn't answer prayer. I have a very close relationship with God in spite of what the NTCC says. They lie and say people can not serve God outside of their organization, this is to control them. The organization in many ways is their god.
ReplyDeleteThe "in crowd" consists of:
ReplyDeletetattletales
spies
provokers
stepford clones
false witnesses
spineless
boot lickers
sneak dissers
Spies, that is so classic... I got busted my first month in the church when I saw Independence Day (the good one) with a buddy. I got an ear full from the pastor and I still can't figure out how someone would have been around that area to see me. I didn't even know it was "wrong".
ReplyDeleteI think you nailed the order of which the in crowd exist... Tattletales/spies would have been my 1 and 2 as well. I don't know what a sneak disser is though but I think I like it none the less.
Mike
Don't forget brown nosers...
ReplyDeleteThe Stepford wives are horrible... No personality... No common Sense... Everything revolves around if your a pastor or not, good at it or not... They hate women... They hate themselves... I couldn't stand many of them.
ReplyDeleteThe way that the NTCC grooms people to be spies and busybodies is almost the same way that the Hitler Youth worked with the Gestapo to spy on their own families.
ReplyDeleteSneak dissers are Surreptitious two faced conniving back stabbers who smile in your face, but the second you walk by they are gossiping and slandering you in their little cliques, and trust me, the ntcc is full of those.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said:
ReplyDelete"I was accused of being a lesbian on more than one occasion."
DNA said:
You are not alone. I've heard ntcc preachers, inspired by Davis, say that if a man was alone with a woman, and nothing happened, either they were lying or he or she was a homosexual/lesbian. If a man and woman were having problems in their sex life it had to be because he was getting some on the side or he was a homosexual. But that wasn't always the case. Some relationships were just destroyed by meddling preachers and micro management of every spare minute of time to the point that couples had no quality time together. Relationships and families suffered. They loved to label people as homosexuals because along with that title was the stigma of being a reprobate without hope. Davis said he never seen a homosexual get saved. Davis hated people without a cause and loved to classify people "without hope".
When I left the ntcc there was a certain sister who had left prior to me and she wanted a ride somewhere. She was married and at the time things were not working out. I drove her to a place and dropped her off at a friends house. I never heard from her again for years but she had got back with her husband and they've been happily married for years. After this incident I actually tried to go back to the ntcc, and I was honest and told Dorsie about this incident. Dorsie told Davis. Davis said I either had sex with her or I was a homosexual. Later, after I left the ntcc for good, the rumor was started that I had "ran off" with this woman. This is what the ntcc does. They want to discredit everyone who leaves so they start rumors and lies about people. The ones that remain believe these lies and rumors and break off contact with those who leave. Everyone who leaves the cult is believed to be God haters because of this. It also serves as an admonishment to those who remain that if they get out of line they will turn out just like the ones who are labeled as God haters, homosexuals, lesbians, adulterers and reprobates. Who is really the reprobate? Is Ashmore a reprobate? Maybe, but not because he left the ntcc. I think the ones who stay are more in danger of being without hope than the ones who leave. When a person leaves they can unlearn all of the false doctrines and find peace with God, but people in the cult are in constant turmoil until they leave.
What a sad, pathetic and perveted view of the world. For Davis to believe if your alone with the opposite sex, it can only be to have sex andbif that doesnt happen, someone is gay! Like we are a bunch of rabbits. That is the thought process of a sexual predator in my opinion.
ReplyDeleteEric
Without a doubt good 'ol Roger Doger was a sexual predator. He was an adulterer, who could not remember the last time he sinned. He talked so much about it, his peons talked about it. I was around a pastor who had been involved since the beginning and a lot of his after-church jokes, were about sex. The other guys would laugh, but it made me very uncomfortable, especially as a single guy.
ReplyDeleteRoger enabled many of his peons to become sexual predators. They use their position and authority to seduce women, grab women and men.
And that is just the stuff we know and can see. What else is still under-wraps. Makes me shudder.
RW was fixated on sex, and often got crude in his "psychology" classes.
ReplyDeleteWe heard all kinds of intimate personal details taken from his pastoral "counseling" sessions, and he'd also blab similar content from the pulpit, usually for the purpose of ridicule. Most preachers are absurdly prudish and uptight about sex, so I found the contrast refreshing, but failed to realize that the opposite extreme is also problematic and didn't understand how he was desensitizing us for his own reasons.
I was a teacher in Graham and was expected to sit at the Big Table in the fellowship hall, where Rodger held court with the teachers, pastors, workers, and other minions while the student peasants ate their overpriced chips and salsa and foodbank bread bologna sandwiches. The public impression was that we were up there discussing the deep things of God, but mostly it was RW bloviating about building, politics, money, and sex. There was nearly zero spiritual content. He was a fake to the core.
just wanted to know how long don't and ange. was in ntcc my family and I were in ntcc many years they left in the split
ReplyDeleteVic,
ReplyDeleteWhen you were a teacher did you ever feel like you were apart of the in crowd? Did it ever pump you up to sit at "the table"...
Just really curious as to your state of mind back in the day.
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeletejust wanted to know how long don't and ange. was in ntcc my family and I were in ntcc many years they left in the split
DNA said:
13 years from 83 to 96.
One time at the Servicemen's Home in Ft. Bragg, Davis sent me after some cold medicine. He wanted extra strength Contac. I went to 3 different stores looking for it, only to find out that it had been discontinued or recalled because back then people were tampering with drugs. He ended up having me get him some other brand.
ReplyDeleteLooking back on this incident it just dawned on me that Davis never exhibited any flu or cold symptoms. I used to wonder why he would sit around and glare at people. I think he was high on cold medicine. He was a Nyquil/Contac junkie. Very seldom would he ever come through and talk about anything spiritual. He would sit there in prayer meetings just staring into space. Davis was trippin on severe cold and flu medicine.
Don,
ReplyDeleteJust realized I carried your "torch" for the next 13 years...96-2009. NTCC experiences more turnover than a mattress in a pay by the hour motel.
Eric
Vic said,
ReplyDelete"Most preachers are absurdly prudish and uptight about sex, so I found the contrast refreshing, but failed to realize that the opposite extreme is also problematic and didn't understand how he was desensitizing us for his own reasons."
I felt the same way. It eventually became uncomfortable and I hated trying to explain away his obsession to myself and others.
Vic said,
ReplyDelete" The public impression was that we were up there discussing the deep things of God, but mostly it was RW bloviating about building, politics, money, and sex. There was nearly zero spiritual content. He was a fake to the core."
I was so excited after I graduated and could sit at the big table during fellowship. I had anticipated it being such a great experience and man I was let down. I stopped going up there, but he would sometimes ask why I wasn't sitting up there with the other minister, so I felt like it was expected of us. It was a complete let down.
Going to Olsen's house such a bore and it drove me crazy. He even fell asleep on me a few times and I had to sit there waiting for him to wake up.
Going to Kekel's house was fun because he had so many wide interests, the food was good, and he would talk and teach and we would even joke around. Once I got married, we stopped going there. Years after we left the Org, my wife told me Kekel had brushed up against her inappropriately several times. She kept trying to explain it away and stopped going over there to help clean her house.
Eric said:
ReplyDelete"Just realized I carried your "torch" for the next 13 years...96-2009. NTCC experiences more turnover than a mattress in a pay by the hour motel."
DNA said:
Ha ha ha. They turned us like tricks. It's a sad way to look at it but it's true. Ashmore was right when he said to flee from the Whore. Especially when you think how little they cared about us after we left. When you leave the ntcc, there usually is an ultimatum involved. We were treated worse than we would have been if we were one night stands. It wasn't enough for us just to leave and live our lives in peace, but in so many cases we were told that if we made the decision to leave the church, we would be choosing eternity in the lake of fire. Then they would even lie about you after you left. He ran off with someone else's wife. He was into porn. He wanted sin more than he wanted God. And the list goes on.....
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteThe "in crowd" consists of:
tattletales
spies
provokers
stepford clones
false witnesses
spineless
boot lickers
sneak dissers
You forgot to mention one other group:
navel-gazers:
Engaging in self-absorbed behavior, often to the point of being narcissistic. If she would stop navel-gazing, she would realize the light had turned green. As defined by the Urban dictionary.
"Vic,
ReplyDeleteWhen you were a teacher did you ever feel like you were apart of the in crowd? Did it ever pump you up to sit at "the table"..."
I never quite felt like I attained that status, even though I was a teacher. Despite being brainwashed, I still retained a modicum of nonconformity--for example, I've still never had a pair of wingtips on my feet. At some level I suppose I craved it, but couldn't bring myself to jump through every ridiculous hoop. It just wasn't in me to become a Keith Gandy or Eli Gesang type suckup. The identity I'd assumed was already false enough. I was in the No Wingtip Zone (which didn't go undetected, btw).
Sitting at "the table" was OK from the perspective of just hanging out, but that's all it amounted to and it got old pretty fast. My wife and I actually got in an argument once because I quit wanting to congregate up there for fellowship, and I had to enlighten her that the spiritual giants in attendance weren't imparting pearls of divine wisdom; they were telling dirty jokes and trash talking "loser" preachers.
I just never fit in at NTCC and the day I left was like getting born again again. All kinds of people submerge their personalities in a vain attempt to become someone they aren't. We were under constant pressure to be manpleasers.
Also:
ReplyDeleteCheese Eaters
Hey Vic,
ReplyDeleteI remember you as a teacher in Graham. I can confirm fellowship at the at the big table was almost never spiritual, unless their was a push to manipulate the sheeple into giving more or doing more - then some new doctrine would come up like people should tithe not just their money - but a real dedicated christian should also dedicate a tithe of their time to the church. I heard that from the mouth of rwd more than once while they we building the big church and needed free labor. He calculated the tithe of your time should be about 17 hours. He was a no good, self-serving, carnal-minded, master manipulator from the get-go.
Your post reminded me of the flat-top craze that went around the church in the 90's. rwd had some kind of skin condition on his scalp and felt the best way to treat himself involved wearing a flat-top haircut for a few months. During that time, the completely yielded men went out and got flat-tops and rwd encouraged this kind of behavior among all the men. He used this, along with the wing-tip thing to judge an individuals loyalty to him. He took it personal that if people did not follow his myriad of ways to test people to see how he could use them; then he would squeeze them for all he could.
Vic, does that remind you of old rwd?
Qas just reading an article in the wall street journal entitled grifter-in-chief. The article was about the relationship between the Clinton foundation and thenClintons personal enrichment. The article has this quote, "Any nonprofit lawyer in America knows the ironclad rule of keeping private enrichment away from tax-exempt activity, for the simple reason that mixing the two involves ripping off taxpayers."
ReplyDeleteI could not help but think of NTCC and how Davis designed a charitable organization for personal enrichment.
Disgusting.
Eric
Non profit religious organizations are about the only tax shelters for low life hucksters that want to mix private enrichment with tax-exempt activity. There are a lot of loopholes for religious hucksters. If they say that spending money on personal enrichment is part of their religious belief system and they can quote a twisted scripture that supports it, the IRS will turn a blind eye. The FBI has to have an awful lot of dirt to open an investigation into a religious huckster like Davis or Kekel. Congress opened an investigation into the top six money making hucksters in America but nothing ever seems to have come of it. One former ntcc minister wrote letters to the IRS and congressmen but never got any answers. It's hard enough to prosecute these sleaze bags for molesting children. The Statute of Limitations protects predators from being tried when the child has grown up and overcome their fear enough to turn them in. Those cases are hard enough to prove in a court of law when there is evidence.
ReplyDeleteGoing after rich church leaders doesn't seem to be high on the priority list of the IRS or anyone in Law enforcement. A civil suit would probably be the best way to go but those cost a lot of money and there are not a lot of lawyers out there that don't want to go through the process of attempting to take down a rich institution unless they have a lot of evidence against them. The problem with the ntcc is that everyone is afraid of them. Very few people will go public or pursue any type of legal action against them. The ntcc will make their case that there is precedent in ripping people off because other churches do it. There is precedent in preachers getting rich. There is precedent in preaching a whole bunch of man made rules and controlling every aspect of a persons life. The Amish do it and so do many, many other cults. One of the few prosecutions that we know about was Fontenot and that is because his x-wife went to the police because Olson and Davis wanted to protect and harbor the pervert. I know people don't like harsh language or to hear about the 3 "P"s of the ntcc: perverts, pedophiles and predators but it makes me sick that they have got away with so much abuse. I hate people that take advantage of the weak. The ntcc takes advantage of women and children. What they have done openly should be a crime, but they get away with it because Mothers and Fathers allow them to abuse their children. They put their children in harms way by allowing unsupervised access to their children. Husbands allow their wives to be abused. They do not stand up for them. In some cases they are the source of abuse.
"Vic, does that remind you of old rwd?"
ReplyDeleteSure does--everyone went around wearing barongs all the time because of him, and ministers were getting diamond pinkie rings too. I never fell for those, but I did get in on the brief fad for clerical collars. RW said he wore them when traveling because it led to preferential treatment. I had some church members who bought me a couple, and I'd wear them to church. Got the weirdest looks in the grocery store with my wife and children; I guess people thought I was a Catholic priest or something. It was really goofy.
I must have been gone when he pulled the flat top thing in Graham, but he did the same thing in St. Louis when I was still a student. I was up playing the drums and he put me on the spot in front of the whole church, asking me if I was going to get one too. So of course I caved and said "yes sir." The next day he sent word that I really didn't have to if I didn't want to, which was a big relief. I guess I failed that test, because I didn't want to and I didn't, so I suppose he made a mental note that I wasn't quite putty yet. But a bunch of other suckers did. He loved having a bunch of mini-me clones scurrying about imitating him. A true narcissist.
I wrote about this before but I remember when I was fairly new all the people coming back from a conference sometime in the 90's. Everyone started saying (Pas TORE) instead of pastor. I didn't know what to make of it at the time but it is definitely a place full of sheeple.
ReplyDeleteIt's funny, the whole group think thing. I wonder how ridiculous you could be before some of these people finally said "OK, now that's stupid, I'm not doing that".
ReplyDeleteFrom haircuts, how you say pastor, to wing tips... It's hilarious.
I remember when it was cool to listen to and quote Rush Limbaugh. Once RW expressed some likemindedness to something Rush said then all the butt kissers would do the same.
ReplyDelete