Recently we've received good news. Someone mentioned on Chief's blog that the Freeman's had left the ntcc; and more recently it was shared that Gene Pellicia had also left the ntcc; where he had been an instructor at the seminary. We received an e-mail the other day from Gary Freeman that stated he had indeed left the ntcc back in September of last year; and that he took his wife and congregation with him! **Woot! Woot!** Normally we wouldn't do a blog post over someone leaving ntcc; but we have found that it is becoming more and more common for ministers in the ntcc to leave with their families in tact and now they are even taking their congregations with them! Why shouldn't they? They get sent to remote places like Cheyenne, WY and spend so much of their own time, energy, and money winning souls and pioneering a work for God. Why should they leave their congregations to the ntcc vultures who are only interested in their tithe and offerings?
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| These ntcc Vultures are Looking for a Free Meal. Who Will They Devour Next? |
Who's Out?
Not sure how many others have taken their congregations with them when leaving ntcc; but most are lucky to get out with only the clothes on their backs. Even that is better than staying in a controlling cult! When Denis left, he not only took his congregation, but he also took other congregants and ministers with him. And ntcc alledges Denis took money and property too. In other words, Denis beat Davis at his own game by defying him and the ntcc in a way that led to Davis' so-called 'retirement', and struck a serious blow to the ntcc's treasure chest; which, up until that point, seemed to be untouchable. When Barnes left he took a very large congregation with him; but it was his group of people that he labored to reach. This also was a huge blow to the ntcc. A lot of tithe dollars stopped rolling in when Barnes departed with his church. Then Ashmore moved into his inheritance in San Diego and left ntcc while taking his large group of followers with him. Again, the ntcc lost a lot of money. And Ashmore continues to draw people away from the ntcc and has also created a vacuum that seems to have been successfully sucking in lots of X-ers.
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| "Ashmore Taking up an Offering Prior to Preaching About the Great Whore" while imitating her every whoredom! |
We're not sure what size Freeman's church was, but even if it was not as big as some of the above mentioned churches, it is every bit as impactful; because now the 'common' ministers in the ntcc are leaving with their converts and their church members. This is encouraging news; because now all the ntcc ministers who read this blog, (even though they aren't supposed to) are being shown an example that the average mistreated ntcc minister can follow if they want to lead their group of people that they have won to God, out of the bondage of ntcc false doctrine.
We are blogging about this; because we feel that many ministers in the ntcc feel trapped. Most are financially strapped and probably feel that leaving the ntcc with their group would be a difficult task at best. Nothing is easy in the ntcc. You can do this if you plan it out and exercise your right to be free from this scandal ridden organization. Many before you have left with nothing; and their sheperdless congregations have been taken over by the ntcc vultures; who often swoop in with an iron fist and lay down the law in an unmerciful way. "Get right; or get left!" is what your congregation will be told by some ntcc abusive-jerk hireling who didn't labor for the people that he will run off. People are taken advantage of; and the weak are often kicked to the curb in the ntcc. We've seen it so many times. Every time a new pastor came into town people would leave. The new minister would have to show their so-called superiority and demand respect. This would turn people off; and they would leave.
How To Do It
There are a few ways to go about leaving with your church in tact. First of all you have to realize that your church members are part of the body of Christ. Who does the church belong to? It's not a building. The church is the body of believers. Who are the people who make up your church? Are they not a part of the body of Christ? Why should the ntcc lay claim to the people that you have labored so hard for so long to win to Christ? Why should you be sending their hard earned money to Graham so that the likes of the Kekels can live like the Pompous Hollywood Elite? The ntcc leadership spends your money on their own creature comforts while you struggle to pay the bills on the church building. That is backwards; the Apostle Paul said:
"for the children ought not to lay up for the parents, but the parents for the children." 2 cor 12:14
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| Tell me if this doesn't Accurately Represent the ntcc? Did you know that you purchase the Board Members' vehicles for them? It's part of their bylaws. When was the last time someone bought a car for you? Stop getting played by these religious hucksters! They don't care about you. They only care about your money. If you don't believe us, stop giving them money and see how fast the 'love' stops. |
Paul was speaking about not being burdensome to the Corinthian church. It is the opposite in the ntcc. A generous cut of your tithe dollars and your offerings go to the ntcc 'royalty'. The ntcc is nothing but burdensome to your church and your members. They only come when you pay them. They reap all of the financial benefits, while they force their false doctrines down your throats. What would happen if you stopped paying them your tithe and offerings? They would shut down your church building and confiscate everything they could from you. This is how they roll. They say "it's all about souls;" but if you don't pay them, they will shut you down; and they don't care how many souls they destroy in the process! So guess what? It's not all about the souls. It's all about the dollars!
L.C. Barnes Did It.
We're not experts on the subject of leaving the ntcc with a congregation of people, but we will say that one of the biggest obstacles to a successful exodus would involve having enough money to make the transition to a different building not controlled by ntcc. Many ntcc ministers have been taught to become "full time" ministers. What does that really mean? What do full time ministers in the ntcc actually do with their time? I know that they will say that full time ministry frees them up to pray and study for messages and properly orchestrate the administrative, spiritual and official activities of their office as a bishop. If that is your position, the first thing you need to do is come down off of your high horse. I'm just saying that I had at least 10 full time ministers and none of them were all out prayer warriors or administers. They chose to spend their time micro managing the lives of their church members. The one that prayed the most was L.C. Barnes; and he was full time military at the time and built a bigger congregation in a shorter period of time than any others that I had been around! I believe that the ntcc eventually influenced him to do things that went against his own personal convictions; but because he was a praying man, he left the organization when God moved him to do so. Unfortunately some of the reports we got from others who witnessed his ministry in the latter part of his tenure with the ntcc revealed that he was very much into the money and was abusive towards people who attended his church. This is not in character with the Rev. Barnes that I knew and respected. I would like to think that getting away from the cult has helped him and that he prayed his way out and made some changes for the better. The truth is, I don't know. I called him at the phone number listed on the church locator and left him a message, but he never got back with me. Saying all of this, who am I to be critical of him? When I knew him, he was the real deal; and I believe that God was very real in his life. The ntcc's example of abuse and money grubbing has a way of corrupting folks; and I only hope that any damage done to L.C. Barnes was reparable; and that he has done what God would have him to do concerning his ministry.
Denis Did It. Ashmore Did It.
You will most likely need money and a job if you wish to leave the ntcc with your church members. In reality it shouldn't take a whole lot of money. You can have church in an apartment and God can be just as real as He is in a fancy church edifice. If you wish to have a building to have services in that is separate from your living space than you will need some money. Getting a job is not a sin. Chances are that most full time ministers are putting an unnecessary financial strain on their congregations. Paul didn't want to be a burden to his churches so he worked for a living as a tent maker. If you insist on staying full time and leaving with your congregation then chances are you will have to hit them up for the cash to do so. Hopefully you are not just wanting to jump ship to start your own cult full of the same false doctrines and controls taught by ntcc. We believe strongly that Denis and Ashmore have done exactly this. There seems to be no remorse. Alledgedly Denis runs an even more controlling cult than Davis ran. Ashmore denies having any knowledge of the financial iniquities that he was involved in with ntcc. He also will not address any of the allegations from people who have claimed that he abused them; nor will he apologize to anyone. He leaves the ntcc after 40 years of abusing people and all of the sudden he calls the ntcc the great whore and acts as if he was never part of the problem! We're not buying into that. I know how he treated my own mother. We have testimonies from people that he has hurt; and yet he will not acknowledge them in any way. He rents a a building worth more than 1.5 million dollars and basically carries on just like he did in the ntcc. Many have ignored the disturbing reality of what Ashmore is all about; and they have joined his cult or supported him in all his exertions. He says the same things that we have said. We compared the ntcc to Mystery Babylon, the Great whore, and people accused us of being bitter and not moving on with our lives while people flock to Ashmore when he says the same things. He parroted our views on recycled relationships and divorce on demand. As we have, he also accuses the ntcc of being abusive towards its ministers. We are not wanting anyone to flock to us. We don't even care if you think we are devils and full of bitter hatred towards the ntcc. We know for a fact that what we have shared on this blog has been effective; and we have received plenty of feedback that supports us. There always will be folks that don't agree with our approach; and that's okay. The freedom to have your own views and beliefs is a gift from God. We would like for you to escape to freedom but we also would like to warn you of the danger of whoring after Ashmore. What you do with this advice is entirely up to you. Is it time for you to fly?
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Leave and take your congregations with you. If you are being oppressed to the point of wanting out, just think how bad it is for the men, women and families of those who are following you. What's going to happen to them if you leave them to someone else? Do you think that the next ntcc minister who replaces you is really going to care for them more than you? You wouldn't be leaving if you didn't have a reason. If you are leaving because you want sin, you can stay in the ntcc and have all the sin you want. There are ministers who frequent whore houses who stay in the ntcc and get promoted. There are ministers who rape and molest their own children who stay in the ntcc. There are ministers who have cross dressed, and committed habitual acts of homosexuality who have stayed in the ntcc. There are people who abuse children that stay in the ntcc. There are people who abuse animals that stay in the ntcc. They will absolutely keep you around no matter what you do, as long as you support them financially and go along with their scam. If you become a liability or a public embarrassment to them, they will get rid of you in a New York minute unless you have the goods on them. Usually when people leave the ntcc it's because they want to get away from that garbage. Your best course of action is to leave and take as many with you as you can.
"We are all Jews here." MSG Roddie Edmonds
The following account was given by Rev. Chris Edmonds, the son of former Master Sergeant Roddie Edmonds. This account was given on a radio broadcast that I heard yesterday and I'm giving details as I heard them.
There was a man named Roddie Edmonds who was a Master Sergeant in the U.S. Army; who fought in World War II. He was a Christian and highly respected among his men. He went from the rank of private to Master Sergeant (E-8) in about one year. He was 24 years old when he was captured during extreme combat during the Battle of the Bulge. While he was in captivity at a POW camp he was the highest ranking NCO and had to answer for himself and 1270 men who were imprisoned to the Nazi officers running the POW camp. The Nazis ordered MSG Edmonds to have all the Jewish American prisoners, (about 200 men), fall out into a formation. MSG Edmonds had all 1270 men fall out into a formation. Edmonds then commanded all Jewish American soldiers to step forward and all 1270 men took a step forward. The Nazi officer than put a pistol to Edmonds head and said, "They cannot ALL be Jews". Identify the Jews or you will be shot in the head. Master Sergeant Edmonds said: "We are all Jews here. If you shoot me, you will have to shoot us all; and you will be tried for war crimes when we win this war." The Nazi walked away and let all the men live. Seventy years later the Nazi officer says he still remembers those words spoken by Master Sergeant Edmonds!
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| Master Sergeant Edmonds |
I Did It. Pellicia Did It. You Can Too!
I escaped from the ntcc by myself and took nobody with me, thinking that I was wrong and they were right. The ntcc is a lot like a spiritual Holocaust. Look how many souls they leave in their wake of destruction. They destroy 100 souls for everyone that they keep. People who think they are damned for eternity give up on God, thinking there is no hope for them. If you escape from this cult, please take as many as you can with you. You will be doing them a huge favor. If Kekel or the powers that be find out that you are trying to escape with your church members they will do everything they can to destroy you; and your members will be the ones that have to suffer. If you stay, you will continue to live the lie that they want you to live. Folks are leaving; and that's great news. Pellicia is reported to have left also. He was a teacher at the brain washing academy and his departure will be noticed among all the 'students'. We hope that those who leave will share their stories so that others may benefit. Find your way out and lead as many as you can to freedom. Then help others get out. It's the Christian thing to do. Isn't it time for you to fly?
Time For Me To Fly by REO Speedwagon on YouTube
Don and Ange said
ReplyDelete"The only freeloaders that can be found in the ntcc are mostly in Graham. H E L L O !"
I love the HELLO at the end. I just can't stop laughing at it. HELLO was always used when they spun their psychological webs and wanted to let you know that they have your number. Funny how times have changed and we now have their number. I often wondered why we were so indebted to Johnson, Olson and gang. I now get it, we were intended to pay their salaries for the rest of our lives. Ooops I guess I didn't get the memo in time.
Best post in a while D/A
ReplyDeleteI guess I love news of people leaving because a steady drip can turn into a flood quickly or a really nasty STD.
Bryan said:
ReplyDelete"Funny how times have changed and we now have their number. I often wondered why we were so indebted to Johnson, Olson and gang. I now get it, we were intended to pay their salaries for the rest of our lives. Ooops I guess I didn't get the memo in time."
DNA said:
The shoe is now on the other foot. All they can do now is damage control, which consists of calling us the devil and telling their brain washed subjects not to read our blog posts. I think that if nothing else, they are learning that tithe is a big scam and that the Kekels are lowlifes.
Davis used to teach that in order to become a full time minister that you need to have at least 10 tithe paying suckers. Why was ten the magic number? If you could sucker 10 people into paying their tithe you would have one complete salary to pay for your lazy butt to stay at home and be supported by the 10 who worked. 10% of 10 incomes coming from 10 people who work for a living equals the income of one person who works for a living to be distributed to one lazy individual who wants to free load off of the body of Christ. Now they thought they were doing God's will according to Davis, but they definitely were not following Paul's model. A full time minister was a more of a burden to the program of God. The one income generated by ten tithe payers was often not enough to support all the bills and expenses of the church and the ntcc hireling would often brow beat their congregations to give more and more.
The egg heads in Graham didn't mind because they were going to get their pastor tithe and church tithe anyway. The more money given in offerings meant more money flowing into the Davis and Kekel slush funds. They got rich while the churches struggled to get by and the church members were the ones who had to foot the bill. The local pastors were a byproduct of this spiritual Ponzi scheme. Anyone who didn't go along with tithe became an outcast and was separated from all the brain washed flock so that their common sense was not allowed to debunk the false doctrines that make them rich. Thus tithe was always used as an indicator that someone was "in". You could not partake of the so called blessings if you didn't pay tithe. HELLO!!!
I used to keep the books and knew how all of the money was distributed. I remember the payments that were sent to Graham for Pastor's tithe and church tithe. I also remember all of the offerings and funds. Unfortunately it's been a long time and some of the intricacies of how this was done have slipped away from my memory. It seems like Pastor's tithe included any income that the pastor made personally on a job or any increase that he received from someone other than church members. I think that 10% Sunday morning offering was also included in this figure. If memory serves me correctly, the church tithe included 10% of all tithes and other offerings that were given with the exception of earmarked offerings like escrow, budget or revival offerings. The bottom line is that these hucksters in Graham were going to get a pretty big chunk of all incoming money. If someone out there has a better memory than I and would like to add to this, we would welcome your imput.
ReplyDeleteHey,
ReplyDeleteI would say leave and decompress... You need to get yourself right before trying to keep a congregation you've most likely been abusing. There also needs to be a mea culpa to all those you've screwed over.
Mike
What's the status with Grant? Does he work for the org now?
ReplyDeleteWhy do you care worry about your own life and leave people alone seriously you guys are pathetic
DeleteI was helping at a church and the pastor was sending in between 30% and 40% of the income back to Graham. A real racket. I could maybe understand if they offered any kind of support, but they just sucked people dry...vampires. They offer no support to move around, no health insurance and definitely no retirement benefits. When thy visited us, we had to pay for their RV parking or their hotel, their food, and give them offerings. While they were with us, we had to pick up their dry cleaning, etc. Then once in a while the speaker would generously give the money back for one night and we would laud them for their generosity and kindness. They would make fun of people and talk about people behind their backs and it was awful.
ReplyDeleteReal men of gawd and examples of meekness and kindness and love, NOT AT ALL . These men and women were dripping with pride, haughtiness, lust and greed. They expected us to get excited about their tired and repeated messages which just became such a joke after a while. It got to the point where we could tell what they would say, when they would say it and when they expected us to respond with a hearty, "Amen" or "Yessir". They wanted our loyalty without offering any in return.
I don't consider my time there a waste, because God taught me so much during and after my time there. It was an education in what a church, a leader, a life should NOT be and as Olsen reminded us often that Education is never a waste.
I learned that God is love, even in real pain and suffering and internal anguish, God is love.
Anonymous said..."I was helping at a church and the pastor was sending in between 30% and 40% of the income back to Graham."
ReplyDeleteThis is absolutely TRUE - They have what they call a General Fund for all offerings that come in from Sunday Night until Saturday. They pay 10% of this amount back to Graham in their weekly report. Then for any tithe collected throughout the week and Sunday Morning, this is put in account called Tithe Fund and they also pay 10% of this amount back to Graham. Many churches may participate in conference pledges, World Missions, or host a revival that pays for the expenses of the speaker plus the maximum $500 per week. Your church may not be able to support itself but this is still expected of you as a pastor. Pastors and church workers are also not supposed to pay tithe to the local church, so the tithe of their personal income would go back to Graham as well. No one in NTCC can dispute these FACTS.
Also as stated about the bylaws their cars and personal vacations are paid by the organization's members. I also know they have corporate credit cards (possibly Citibank or Chase) that they use during traveling and no doubt their personal expenses are paid for by you as well.
They were being paid for their blind loyalty to RW Davis, think about it. Remember all the times that this organization and the churches were referred to as running a business well when people leave they are so full of themselves that they think that it is a personal affront to them, however it is just "business" if someone wants to leave, how do you like them apples? HELLO!
ReplyDeleteBut now they switch it on you and it's all about you being of the devil, full of sin and a reprobate before God if you decide to leave. If they are presently not acting like this then it is because they know they have been found out and are trying to change it trying to make changes and not bring attention to the way they used to be. If this is the case then you have every X NTCCer to thank, make no mistake what you are reading in these blogs is how it used to be.
The reason many of you guys can't leave this organization is because you have to be spooned fed and spooned led in your little walk with God which in many cases is simply a business relationship you have with that organization and can hardly be called a walk with God. HELLO!
Just think, your pastor is making money off of you is that how it should be? HELLO! And if you decided to no longer pay into their program your pastor now calls You a devil, full of sin and a reprobate of God, is that how it should be? HELLO!
I'm really glad that people are realizing what the ntcc is all about. So often, people will get out of the ntcc and they refuse to process what they went through. These anonymous comments are very thoughtful. I think that the ntcc has changed and evolved but only because their corrupt ways have been exposed. They can not practice hypocrisy as openly as they once did, but they have to keep their double standards away from public scrutiny which makes them even bigger hypocrites. They are still hypocrites and they are just as wicked as they were back in the day. They change the language to change the perception. Kekel can say that they were never rules, just policies, but we know they were rules. People just don't go out and get vasectomies because they feel like it. They are still the same cold hearted, unmerciful, greedy users that they have always been. You can clean up a pig and put a bow on him, but the first thing he will do when you let him back out is go straight to wallowing in the mud. He still is a pig no matter what you do to clean him up. Olson, Kekel and Ashmore still hypocrites. Ashmore can leave the organization but he continues to collect tithes and he continues to live just like he did in the ntcc. What's different? What about the people he needs to make things right with? Why is it that in all of his Youtube videos that he doesn't come out and denounce tithe as a false doctrine? He's very quick to call the ntcc a whore and convince others to come suckle with him, but why would anyone want to make the same mistake twice? He changed the language to change the perception, and the X-members are flocking to him just like that pig with a bow on it. I don't see any difference. The Ashmore camp is locked up tighter than the ntcc. They won't come on this blog and defend the indefensible actions of Ashmore. Ashmore doesn't want to be exposed anymore than he already is. The only ones that left a comment on our blog from the Ashmore camp were the Blood Moon Prophet, Matthew Meinecke, and Donny Ridgeway. We didn't publish Donny's comment because he wanted to slander Julie. That's what the ntcc does. They try to destroy the credibility of those who expose them for their abominations, rather than answering their allegations. These hypocrites can not defend their own actions. That is why Ashmore has a private blog. He hasn't changed. People find fault with us for not publishing every comment but they love Ashmore and he doesn't allow anyone on his blog that he doesn't accept as a friend. He's even worse than Kekel, in that sense. I could probably get a comment published on Kekel's blog, but not on Ashmores. Ashmore doesn't even make his blog public so that people can see it. Kekel's blog is public. What is Ashmore trying to hide and why do people flock to him as if he were the last prophet of truth on the earth? It's all the same. They are trying to replace the ntcc with Ashmore. Good luck with that.
ReplyDeleteI have to admit, aside from comments from people that are attacking victims I'd post everything, cause I'm truly curious as to what their thought process is. Also it's a reminder of where I once was. I'm sure some of the stuff they may try to post is just silly and or stupid but if there is anything remotely interesting I'd love to hear it.
ReplyDeleteMike
Let us not forget about the General Fund or any fund that is left over when a Pastor moves on from their church and a new one comes in.
ReplyDeleteThe org will take ALL of that money and not even tell the new Pastor about it. They will instead send an overseer who will take and send all that money raised by the local church and intended for that local church back to the black hole, NTCC headquarters.
The org's answer men, Olson or DiFrancesco, will tell you the funds are there for when the next guy needs it for something. NOPE, it's not there. People need some help to get set up, to get things going, but they never see a dime, no matter the dire circumstances some find themselves in.
Oh, the man of gawd may show some little act of kindness, but never truly help. They are all about taking and never giving If they do give, it is something that doesn't cost them anything. They give a very little bit out of their abundance.
I would suggest leaving any controlling church and being outside of a church for some time. Give yourselves sometime to read your Bible, pray and spend some time getting reacquainted with your Savior, Jesus. Spend time with your family and get to know the people you love. Take some time to relax, take a trip with your wife and kids. Take a moment before jumping into another church. God will take an active interest in your communion with Him and will lead and direct you. Change is hard, but there are people who have left, are leaving and can help. Reach out to people. You are not alone.
Remember you are loved by God and you don't have to earn His love. You can't be any more loved by God than you are at this moment.
Mike said:
ReplyDelete"Also it's a reminder of where I once was. I'm sure some of the stuff they may try to post is just silly and or stupid but if there is anything remotely interesting I'd love to hear it."
DNA said:
I hear you Mike, but some of the junk Donny Ridgeway wrote is so insulting and off color we just don't want to publish his junk. He was Julie's X-husband and he now has found religion again and is allowed to preach behind Ashmore's pulpit. I'm sure Ashmore and his cult members love to here Donny slander Julie but out of respect to her and what she went through in the organization, we just don't want to give him a platform to do so on our blog. I will say that Julie has not said anything derogatory toward him, but he has called her some pretty filthy names, and I'm not just talking about your garden variety curse words either.
He also has wrote us some pretty disturbing emails. We allow a lot to be said on this blog but we just don't want to encourage people to rag on folks that have already been run through the mill.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"The org's answer men, Olson or DiFrancesco, will tell you the funds are there for when the next guy needs it for something. NOPE, it's not there. People need some help to get set up, to get things going, but they never see a dime, no matter the dire circumstances some find themselves in."
DNA said:
That is so true. Usually if they do something for someone there are strings attached. Nobody really knows where all the escrow and general fund money ends up except for DiFrancesco, Kekel and God. Most of that money is gone forever. They will not be accountable to anyone for how it was spent. Millions of dollars were paid into escrow funds and nobody really has a clue to how that money was spent. Preachers were lambasted for asking to use the money for practical reasons. Davis told Reed to take up an offering when he inquired about the $279,000.00 dollars that was in the escrow at Ft. Hood. The ntcc is a big scam and if you want a reality in God, you need to get away from these common thieves who run the ntcc. Jesus didn't build his church with Pharisees, Saducees or Lawyers.
Scripture of the day:
ReplyDelete"Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision." Philippians 3:2
Strong's lists the word Dogs as a metaphor meaning a man of an impure heart or an imprudent man. You are supposed to beware of those with an impure heart. Concision means mutilation. They wanted Gentiles to get circumcised. The ntcc wanted men to get vasectomies. What is the difference? Beware of impure evil workers that want you to mutilate yourself. You don't have to get a vasectomy because children hinder the work of the Lord. That is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. If your parents followed that rule, you wouldn't have been born to be a part of the work of the Lord.
Let's examine how stupid this doctrine really is and how we were played for fools by the ntcc leadership. Davis, who compelled people to go pay for an operation to get snipped, went and "adopted", (wink, wink), a child that would greatly hinder his 'ministry' in the Philippines and every other venture he partook in. Tanya is still hindering the work of the Lord to this day. The vasectomy rule didn't apply to the Kekels because he was called to be an administrator. But you need to get snipped so that you will never have a filthy evil child that will hinder God's work. If this doctrine were true the human race would become extinct because every God fearing man would not want to hinder the work of the Lord by bringing a child into the world. If everyone on the planet obeyed Davis, their would not be anyone left to propagate the human race. Many of Davis's followers felt so guilty that they mutilated their bodies and put an end to their family tree. Children are a blessing, but they twisted the scriptures and made children a curse so that men and women would cease to multiply. Kids were considered a distraction in the ntcc. Kids were the scum of the earth in Davis's eyes except for the sinner Grant Kekel. He was treated as royalty and was allowed to break all the rules and create new rules to accommodate Grant's spoiled upbringing. This is your ntcc.
DNA,
ReplyDeleteI agree that you shouldn't post it but for me it's a double edged sword. Posting it puts it out there for the Ashmorites to see. Maybe he'll have some explaining to do when they see what kind of person he is.
In the end I would side with Julie and not post that punk's messages.
If anything of interest from others comes along please post it. It's almost cathartic to see what I once was and to know there are still people trapped in a stupid ideology.
Keep fighting the good fight...
Mike
Anonymous said..."Let us not forget about the General Fund or any fund that is left over when a Pastor moves on from their church and a new one comes in."
ReplyDeleteYes if there is a separate account and especially the ESCROW account that our friend Jeff "NTCC Watchdog" Collins highlighted on his blog. I believe the example was when Matthew Reed left the servicemen's home in Killeen, Texas. Places like that who have been around for 20-30 years collecting tithes and offerings and part of it goes into this account that only board members can touch. If churches need a new furnace or roof, they basically need board approval and the pastor can't be on that account. Maybe Don needs to resurrect that and put some more light on these escrow accounts. The way pastors get shuffled around, they can take that money before the next pastor knows what hit him.
50 ways to leave your lover
ReplyDeletehttps://youtu.be/-xbnE-i2bfQ
No need to discuss with someone why you are leaving. Just leave.
Heres some of what grant is up to
ReplyDeletehttps://www.linkedin.com/in/gkekel
I didn't check any other google results
No you idiot classes were moved around...when people leave ntcc why do they have to make a big fuss if you leave then go and leave us alone no one is holding a gun to your head people are more than welcome to come and if they decide to leave then that's there decision we welcome anybody and everybody and we have a good time...admin keep deleting my comments but I'm gonna keep coming back its about time someone stands up to you sorry losers who sit behind a computer with your pathetic lives telling lies like a big shot but guess what I'm here to stay so keep deleting I'm going to keep coming back!
ReplyDeleteJesus exposed the religious hypocrites. Now others can expose the ntcc hypocrites.
DeleteWhat is so wrong with that?
If the ex-ers are lying, tgen please do start a counter-blog exposing and proving how what the ex-er blogs are saying is a lie... Instead of making childish posts on the Internet.
We arent hiding behind a computer. If you'd like to meet, let's meet.
The last comment was left recently on an older post that referenced an ntcc tweet that instructed ntcc brain washing academy students that their classes were moved around. Someone suggested that it was interesting how classes were moved around right after the news of Pellicia's departure. We saved this comment for you, Mike. Thought you might want to handle this and the earlier snarky comment.
ReplyDeleteAnon sounds like the typical empty headed NTCCer who only knows how to name call and threaten like a 3 year old. Notice there was no substantive counter to any of the myriad intelligent references to scripture consistancy we have made to the NTCC doctrinal inconsistancies. They never seem to learn that that crap only works with their own.
ReplyDeleteSomething tells me that Grant was never a groundskeeper when he was 13 or going through college...
ReplyDeleteWonder how much he got paid on top of the thousands in tuition.
Thanks D/A for posting what the super spiritual guy said. I guess that's nothing too bad. I understand his frustration to have his churches business put out there on blast. An org that prides itself on secrecy is probably driven nuts trying to do damage control with all the updates that can be had.
mike
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"No you idiot classes were moved around...when people leave ntcc why do they have to make a big fuss if you leave then go and leave us alone no one is holding a gun to your head people are more than welcome to come and if they decide to leave then that's there decision we welcome anybody and everybody and we have a good time"
DNA said:
If you don't like what we have to say, why are you reading it? Aren't you supposed to be praying and winning souls to God? After all, nobody is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to read our blog. You call us idiots because a connection was made between Pellicia leaving and Kekel changing the class schedule. Your answer is that the classes were just moved around for know reason at all. I don't think that anyone buys into that. If you are going to call us idiots, than present something more substantive as to why the class schedule was changed. That's the problem with the cult that you are attending. They say things and expect everyone to go along without asking questions. You have the same attitude. Classes were just moved around and anyone else is an idiot for suggesting that they were moved around for a reason. We are trying to get you and others that are trapped in the ntcc to use your brains. Think about the stuff that happens. Do you have a right to question them? You pay them 10% of every dime you make. Do you have a right to know where that money is spent?
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"admin keep deleting my comments but I'm gonna keep coming back its about time someone stands up to you sorry losers who sit behind a computer with your pathetic lives telling lies like a big shot but guess what I'm here to stay so keep deleting I'm going to keep coming back!"
DNA said:
Your comment was deleted to spare you from looking like an idiot yourself. You call us idiots and liars. Tell us what lies we have told, and if they are actually lies, than don't just call us liars and tell us that classes were moved around for no reason. Tell us why they were changed. My guess is that you have no clue as to why they changed their class schedule. Not only do you have no clue, but you wouldn't dare ask them why because they might find out that you are participating in an "evil" blog. Have you asked permission to come on the blogs? I bet you haven't and I bet Kekel would not approve of you blogging. That is why you are anonymous. You are afraid to own your comment. You are in a cult and you are afraid of your cult leaders. Why would you let someone have that much control over your life? Well, you said that you were not going to go away, so we expect to hear some logical explanations from you.
Mike said:
ReplyDelete"I understand his frustration to have his churches business put out there on blast."
DNA said:
Davis, Kekel and the rest of that bunch had no problems putting our business out there on blast. How many times would Davis get behind the pulpit and blast people by name for stuff that wasn't even a sin? How many times would they call folks out for their sins by name and humiliate them in front of hundreds of people at conference? I've heard Davis humiliate fat women because too many of them sat on one pew. Davis has brought women to tears preaching that they were hindering their husbands ministries by getting pregnant. Davis called people out by name whenever they did something that he didn't agree with.
News Alert: The ntcc is a cult. They are self righteous and they are abusive jerks. The anonymous person that left the snarky comments has no clue of what Kekel is all about. People in the ntcc sit there with their blinders on and are oblivious to the corruption that surrounds them. They give large amounts of money to the likes of Kekel while he spends it on his million dollar mansions, Million dollar Recreation Vehicles, Quarter million dollar cars, Antique furnishings, frivolous interior decorating upgrades and all expense paid vacations to Europe and who knows where else while people like Anonymous are sacrificing his/her future and barely scraping by with nothing in savings, shopping at kook stores for clothing and eating ramen and bologna dinners. Who is the idiot? Don't feel bad anonymous. We all made the same mistakes that you are making. That's why we blog. We hope that you and your friends will wake up some day and have enough sense to leave the cult.
That tirade wasn't directed towards you Mike. You just got me going. I definitely understand the point you made and I try to see things from both angles. The person who left this comment is defending what he or she thinks is a holy organization just like we used to. They are definitely an org that prides itself on secrecy. They all have the same uneducated opinions of anyone that disagrees with them. It's like a plague. The only remedy is to leave the ntcc and then perhaps God can take the broken pieces of their lives and put them back together again. The problem with this solution is that many folks think that God and the ntcc are one in the same. I sure did, for 14 years after leaving the ntcc. I left and didn't want anything to do with this cult or religious hypocrites that ran it and I still don't. At some point I realized that the ntcc had very little to do with God. It's just a big money making venture and it's leaders are no more spiritual than a snake slithering around in the grass. Realizing that they are corrupt is the first step to getting control over your own life. They have a way of ruining everything good but when you realize that they no longer have this power over you, it gives you a sense of freedom and control over your own life. What good is it to be religious and fervently follow a bunch of cult goons if you don't have any freedom to be yourself? We hope folks will leave this cult and keep God but we also believe that after what people went through in the ntcc, that nobody wants God or the bible rammed down their throats. Leaving the cult is the first step towards getting your life back and we hope that this blind anonymous person finds their way out. Usually people who get on the blogs end up leaving the cult at some point.
ReplyDeleteDid Jesus love Judas Iscariot? He was one of the 12. Yes he did because if He had not, His love would be imperfect and He would have been guilty of partiality, therefore, could not be our Savior and Leader. So, if a Christian or organization is partial, are they right with God? Can we love only those in our organization and be right with God? Christian = Like Christ!
ReplyDeleteJust saying
No offense taken D/A...
ReplyDeleteI sometimes need to remember what I was like in order to keep empathizing. I remember going on AOL chat rooms and blasting all the sinners. If I was still in the organization I'd probably think you were Satan's biggest minion.
It's really interesting to me at this point with all I'm sure they've seen that it can still be defended. That's what is so striking.
You have the son of the guy in charge who's not even involved in the church business. That was a cardinal sin back in the Apostle's day but Kekel still got the CEO spot.
How do you defend that? How do you ask your church to defend that?
You lose your most esteemed preacher the minute Davis dies. How do you explain that?
The Son in law of Reverend Olsen leaves the church. How do you explain that?
I guess that's what's so striking when I read the defense of the organization. There isn't a viable defense so it results in the shut up and move on routine.
Mike
"If churches need a new furnace or roof, they basically need board approval and the pastor can't be on that account. Maybe Don needs to resurrect that and put some more light on these escrow accounts. The way pastors get shuffled around, they can take that money before the next pastor knows what hit him."
ReplyDeleteLove the way this person tries to shift the focus of this post away from the leadership of NTCC back to the wicked and thieving individual pastors. The shift tries to point out how it's the evil pastors are who will steal from the church when they leave. Love it. It is remarkable how this person does not see how the beloved board takes and never gives. It is a system which flows one way. It is a system designed to enrich the few and burden the masses.
No, whenever a church needs a new roof or water heater, the beloved board will tell them to raise the money for it. No matter the amount in the fund when a pastor leaves, that money is sucked into the NTCC coffers. They new pastor will be told to take up offerings for that piano, take up offerings for that remodel, take up offerings for that refrigerator, take up offerings for that Conference trip. Give us an example of how the beloved board members approved and actually gave money from the General Fund of that local church back to the local church. The local church is burdened beyond belief.
You should be asking why this church and beloved board members are so closed lip to where the church finances go. Why are they not transparent? You have to ask yourself why they are so secretive? You have to ask yourself, why they are so offended when anyone questions them.
The beloved board NTCC pastors love to say, "Touch not the Lords annointed...", they love to say we are doing things Gods way, they love to say that NTCC is the last hope of this world. Oh man, what a group of narcissists founded by a narcissist.
I understand the knee-jerk reaction to protecting his/her leaders, because I used to do that. I get it, but it is time to ask questions.
Ask God questions. He loves to answer and lead in the ways of truth. Get back to your first love, Jesus.
Mike said:
ReplyDelete"There isn't a viable defense so it results in the shut up and move on routine."
DNA said:
So true Mike. It's always been that way. If you are willing to adapt to their lofty expectations and look down your nose at everyone else in the world, you will fit into their cultish scheme. When you begin to figure out that it's all a scam, then you become just another hater that needs to move on. If you ask questions that expose them for their true inten$ion$, you become one of the 'sinners' that they preach at. If you desire transparency or dare to want the truth about where finances are going, they will use the pulpit to humiliate and ostracize you. Cults have to create an "us against them" mentality, and to be a cult member you have to accept all of their rules as if they came from God. Any disagreement becomes a challenge to their superiority. This attitude spreads like a disease from the board members, to the seminary teachers, to the local pastors and to the church members. We all were infected by this arrogant doctrine that dissolves every bit of individuality that makes us who we are and we become fuel for their machine that continually drains us of finances, energy and life. Our sacrifices and the sacrifices of each cult member only serve to enrich the lives of Kekel and a few select favorites of the religious royalty within the upper echelon of the ntcc. The sole purpose of existing in the ntcc is to feed the monster. The monster is insatiable. The monster takes good people and corrupts them. The monster is never satisfied but continues to rule with an iron fist as it gobbles up every useful resource in it's path leaving good people destitute of all the good things in life that God has blessed them with.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"Give us an example of how the beloved board members approved and actually gave money from the General Fund of that local church back to the local church. The local church is burdened beyond belief."
DNA said:
I don't see this ever changing. If anything the financial demands will increase in the light of common pastors leaving the church with their congregations. The oversight will become more suffocating and the board members will become more vicious in their preaching. In other words they will make it more difficult for a pastor to leave. The last thing they want is for a local pastor to leave and take his tithe paying members with him. There will be more audits, more visits, more demands, more rules and more oversight.
It's a lot like slavery. Slaves don't question their masters. Slaves don't have a right to know where the money goes. Slaves don't labor for their own futures. Everything they do is done to benefit their masters. No matter how cruel, no matter how rude, no matter how overbearing they are, you are all still slaves and have no right to have an opinion or question their motives. Your money is God's money and how you spend it determines your status within the cult. You are a slave and you are being used not to further the kingdom of God, but to make others independently wealthy. God built His church on love but they have corrupted every last person in their organization. Beware of these hypocrites that live one way and expect you to live another way. Follow the money trail. You are funding this cult and your money is destroying people. HELLO!!! The trap is sprung at an ntcc church near you. Come visit us this Sunday and stay for fellowship and refreshments. We'll treat you so many ways your bound to like one of them. We will give you a home away from home and we will love you so much that you will open your wallets and make us rich. You will become one of us so fast that your head will spin. Stick around for the rest of this carnival ride, because once we get our hooks in you, you will become part of this circus and you will never want to leave. But when the love wears off, and every dream you ever had of doing something great in your life for God fades away into the background as the greedy power brokers dictate your future and you lose all semblance of human dignity, you will find yourself a slave. Not a slave that is ruled by the love of God, but a slave to a religious money grubbing hypocritical master, who will never reciprocate or reward you for making him rich. When you finally wake up from this nightmare, decades of your life will be gone and so much of your life will seem meaningless. But don't lose hope. None of this was of God and your life can still have a purpose. God can give you back the years that the locusts destroyed. Is there actually a world where people are real and love prevails. There sure can be. It's not about God in the ntcc, because God is love, and the mess that you have seen in the ntcc has very little to do with love.
"Love the way this person tries to shift the focus of this post away from the leadership of NTCC back to the wicked and thieving individual pastors. The shift tries to point out how it's the evil pastors are who will steal from the church when they leave. Love it. It is remarkable how this person does not see how the beloved board takes and never gives. It is a system which flows one way. It is a system designed to enrich the few and burden the masses."
ReplyDeleteDon, I could be wrong, but the way I read "The way pastors get shuffled around, they can take that money before the next pastor knows what hit him," is that the poster is saying that during the transition, the org snatches the escrow money before the pastors can figure out what's going on. I can see where the wording could be construed as you have, but judging by the context, the "beloved board," and not the local pastor, is the target of criticism. This is a good example of how it's possible for two people to give a statement different and conflicting interpretations. Either way, you are right that the primary scammers in NTCC are those in the Graham HQ, although there are certainly individual pastors who are blameworthy (mostly those which want "one of those chairs"). Maybe the original poster can clarify.
There is so much love, acceptance and a willingness to help outside of NTCC! You no longer have to equate leaving the controlling cult NTCC as leaving God. It is simply not true and never has been true.
ReplyDeleteGET out of NTCC before Kekel and his minions destroy you, your family, and your love for God. God wants to bless you in so many ways, just leave that mess.
It can be scary, but just take that first step.
“The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.” Lao Tzu (yes I know Lao is the found of confuscionism, but some quotes just fit no matter who said it)
God wants to do so much in your life, outside of NTCC.
Lao Tsu wrote the Tao Te Ching from which that quote comes. He is the origin of Taoism and Confucius was his contemporary. Just to clarify. And it is very true. There is some wisdom in Taoism, the philosophy not the religion.
DeleteIf there is one thing I have to feel sorry for the average brother is their need to defend these frauds. On the bright side maybe some have gotten sick of it and that's why they'll leave or move on to something else.
ReplyDeleteI just look forward to the day these hucksters are pushing up daisies.
The hypocrisy of the NTCC leadership is almost funny. I just heard of Kekel giving certain women permission to wear pants while preaching it's a sin. He gives them permission to wear pants when riding motorcycles, which is a good and smart thing to do. He gives them permission to wear pants to work, which is probably a smart thing to do, but why they double standard.
ReplyDeleteThen again, I thought women and pants were a constant no-no.
My head is spinning with all the changes. TV is bad, no it's good. Well, no tv, but you can watch movies on your computer monitor. Internet bad, no it's good. You can wear a fancy watch, but not earrings. You can only trim the split ends of your hair. You can only wear clear nail polish when you get your french-tip manicures.
Are you being Gaslighted I know I was.
ReplyDeleteI am not going to lie, it took me many years to get over the control NTCC had on my life. I knew I had to leave NTCC, but I still heard Davis and others saying if a person left NTCC they were leaving God. I could hear them saying NTCC was the last hope of the world. I could hear them saying that Davis would be the first one to go in the Rapture, then the board members and then the rest of us.
Yet, I could no longer handle the obvious compromise and double-standard coming from the leaders. I wanted to be in the ministry and help people and tell people about the Love of God, but bible school was more about success than anything else. It offered very little in the way of learning the gospel and what it meant to lead others to God. Sure, they might have had a few good teachers and neat classes and said the ministry was all important, but their lives and their homes and their pursuits spoke much louder than what they said. I knew Kekel listened to worldly music while preaching against it. To him it was about learning different styles to make his gospel style better. I remember when Kekel told the story of allowing his son to watch “The Lion King”. I was blown away, not because it was a bad thing, but because it was totally opposite of the preaching that took place for years. These “little” things started to put a chink in the NTCC armor. I started to look for other compromises and I found them right under my nose. How could I have been so blind?
I knew people would cut me off, I would probably move and lose what I thought was my family. I was devastated and I could not break free of the mind control I allowed them to have on me. I went to different churches, but looked at the so-called Christians who were obviously not right with God. The women worked, cut their hair, wore pants, they had tv's, etc.
I could not reconcile all that NTCC had told me about being right with God and here I was floundering in the sea of life, and I was refusing the hand Jesus was extending to me. At first there was booze, drugs, illicit sex, jobs, money, movies and really anything allowing me to escape my reality for even a little while. I was miserable and was so close to suicide. I was literally within minutes of ending it all, but thank God for HIS unending mercy.
I still had a rough road for a while, but God has continued to help in so many ways. It’s been a long time since I left and I have a great career, money in the bank, I vacation, I am at peace, I have a great church with great friends.
God is good.
This is a good simple article on what it means to be gas lighted.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/power-in-relationships/200905/are-you-being-gaslighted
Anonymous said: "but why the double standard?"
ReplyDeleteIt's very simple. The holiness standards, was and is nothing more than the arbitrary rules of a man created for control and psychological subjegation along with fear of judgment and hell. The leaders know they aren't of God as they've either never kept them or followed them mostly outwardly. This is how they can change them now so glibly without worrying about what God thinks about it.
And it makes sense financially, to them, as they can bring in more members -possibly- by doing so. Davis could never change them without it being an admission of error. But with him gone what time is better?
I would commend them for the change but I question their motive and I heard the preaching with my own ears that if we did not follow these rules we weren't saved and would be judged and go to hell ...oh how times change!
Quite a bit of surmiseing...but most is wrong!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said: "Quite a bit of surmiseing...but most is wrong!"
ReplyDeleteC'mon if you expect to be taken seriously you have to bring more than that to the table or you've added nothing to the discussuon.
I would guess that the surmising comment came from a different anonymous poster. If not, I'm not sure what they are referring to but some very good points are being made, none the less.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said:
"I could not reconcile all that NTCC had told me about being right with God and here I was floundering in the sea of life, and I was refusing the hand Jesus was extending to me. At first there was booze, drugs, illicit sex, jobs, money, movies and really anything allowing me to escape my reality for even a little while. I was miserable and was so close to suicide. I was literally within minutes of ending it all, but thank God for HIS unending mercy."
DNA said:
Sorry you went through all that. It sounds very familiar to me, because I went through it also. I think that it's all part of their psychological tampering they do with the minds of those who buy into their cult. They don't want anyone leaving the cult happy or with peace in their hearts. So they do their very best to make you think that leaving their cult is the same as leaving God. I thought I was leaving God when I left the ntcc. Do you think that God immediately stops loving a person because they leave the abusive environment of the ntcc? That would contradict a very important scripture: "He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is Love" 1 John 4:8 When we leave the ntcc, their love for us is over. They 'love not' because your money has stopped flowing into their bank accounts. God doesn't need our money like the ntcc does. You can read the beatitudes in Mathew 5 and you will find that the people who are blessed are not the ones that living like the Kekels and Ashmores of this world. It's the broken in spirit, the poor, the reviled, those that mourn, the meek, they that hunger and thirst after righteousness, the merciful, the pure in heart and the peace makers who find favor with God. It's not the judgmental hypocrites who get rich off your tithe, drive wedges between families and then run you off when they are finished using you.
If you have left the ntcc and it feels like your life has been broken into a million pieces, try not to feel like its the end of the world. I personally believe that those who leave and turn to drugs, alcohol, illicit sex are actually closer to God then when they were in the ntcc and participating in the hypocrisy and double standards. God was much more forgiving to the sinners and the adulterers than He was to the Pharisees and hypocrites. You can't help those that don't acknowledge that they need help. Wasn't that how it was for us in the ntcc? We thought that we were the only ones going to heaven on planet earth. The men we held in such high regard were enforcing standards that they themselves were not willing to live up to. The ntcc is a cesspool of adultery and a breeding ground for pedophiles and perverts that will not repent or acknowledge any wrong doing. You are labelled a God hater if you don't pay your tithe but you can abandon your wife and/or kids or beat them so long as the ntcc benefits financially. There is a God in heaven that sees everything. I was better off "living in sin" and lost than I was when the ntcc had their hooks in me. I was a hypocrite just like Davis and Kekel, thinking that I was on the narrow path and watching helplessly as people were destroyed for their own financial benefit and for the good of the corrupt organization that tries to pass itself off as a church. I was unable to help a single soul and when a person was cut off from the ntcc, we all watched helplessly. Once we realize that we are nothing and we find ourselves hopelessly lost and in need of a savior, we find ourselves in a much better position to be saved then when we are blending in with a bunch of hypocritical phony liars.
Kekel is a liar and this is a plain and simple truth. He is like his father in law before him. People in the ntcc refuse to look at the hypocrisy that surrounds Mike and Tanya Kekel. They refuse to look at the money and how it has been misappropriated for years. They refuse to acknowledge the double standards. They refuse to care about the people who were run off for watching TV, surfing the internet or dressing in a way that they preached was inappropriate for a holiness Christian. They refuse to take any responsibility for influencing men to get vasectomies and cheating them out of the blessing of having children. They refuse to acknowledge that they were the cause of families and marriages being torn apart. They refuse to acknowledge that their own adultery, fornication, trips to whore houses, child molesting, child abuse, wife abuse or any other kind of abuse was a sin against God and an affront to the church of the living God, while at the same time they would run people off for disagreeing with them or questioning their motives.
ReplyDeleteKekel preached against compromise and now he embraces it. He preached against TV and now he embraces it. He preached against the sinnernet and now he embraces it. He preached against social media and now he embraces it. Kekel is a liar and a hypocrite. Kekel wants your money and your praise and that's all he cares about. If you want to see Kekel's true colors, stop paying tithe to him. Stop requiring your church members to pay tithe. Stop putting money into an escrow fund that you or your church members will never benefit from. Next time they want to come and preach a revival, tell them to get saved and stop making merchandise off of the people of God. Next time they want you to go to conference tell them that you are going to have your own conference, and sit down with your congregation and tell them that the ntcc is nothing more than a big ponzi scheme that is only benefiting Kekel and a few select board members. Tell your church members that you are leaving the ntcc and they are welcome to join you. That would be a true revival and give you and your people a reason to shout and dance. Freedom is a wonderful thing and without it, you are just going through the motions.
Davis was a self made man, no he wasn't.
ReplyDeleteDo you guys remember Roger talking about how he was a self-made man? All of his talks about coming from nothing to where he was now. Now, we have to give credit where credit is due and he made many great choices and he was very focused on his wealth and his land empire. He was driven to succeed and he definitely did. You have to admit that, but he left out a key part. He was given a big leg up.
Back in the 90's, Rogers wife, Verna, told my friend her father gave Roger some land to get his start. He made the great choice to build houses on that land and he was successful. She said most people didn't know this. We never heard him admit that.
For so long, he was bigger than life to me and could do no wrong.
To me, it was just another peak behind the curtain to what Roger really was. He was a narcissist, a braggart, an adulterer, a liar, a man who could not remember the last time he sinned.
I personally liked Roger and learned many things from him.
ReplyDeleteRoger was a great motivator and speaker and he inspired me to be more than I was. He was a change agent God used in my life to propel me further than I would have gone on my own. For that, I am appreciative of the experience with him.
I like and appreciate his success in business and somewhat moderate success in building a church. He had a commanding personality, kind of like John Wayne did in his movies.
What I could not reconcile was the drive to build a church and win people to Jesus with the drive to build his personal wealth and use the churches non-profit status to do so. We were told to pay tithe and offerings in cash. We were belittled for wanting to get tax write-offs by claiming our donations. We were told to give until it hurt. Those who gave big at conferences and in church were held in higher regard than the rest of us.
I also noticed how very little they actually helped pastors and missionaries start and maintain their churches. I know Roger liked to use desperation as a great motivator and drive to make people work harder, but it got a little ridiculous. Brothers were having to sell their plasma, work several menial jobs, ask for handouts because their organization chose not to help them. I agree hunger can be a great motivator, but what about setting people up for success? I have talked to several successful pastors from other org's who pioneered and built several churches with the help of their organization. If they were sent by them, they were helped by them.
The atmosphere in the serviceman's home I was in appeared to be one genuinely concerned with winning people to Jesus, but the Bible college was so different. It was driven by who could wear the nicest suits and dresses, who had a nice car, who had a great job, the houses the leaders built were a big deal.
I truly believe in the blessings of God on a persons life, but am troubled by a person using the ministry to become wealthy. I don't think Jesus had that in mind.
Davis negatives, cancels out any positives that he might have done, because the negatives effects of his preaching and teaching is still having a adverse effect on people long after his death, his ministers, pastors, and other ntcc leaders are still preaching and teaching his lies, and perverted doctrine. There are numerous examples of davis lies and perverted doctrine.
ReplyDeleteI disagree with you Maurice...but I understand where you're coming from.
ReplyDeleteNo one is completely good or completely evil. I think old Rog was definitely wrong in a lot of his teachings and his approaches to people and the ministry, but on the other hand he started the military outreach and because of that, I was reached for Jesus. I learned a lot, both what to do and what not to do.
God can use anything to draw people to Him and for me NTCC played a vital part in my walk.
He had some great qualities and some very bad ones. I met my wife in school and for that I am very grateful.
Finally, I had to leave because the good of NTCC (friends, wife, traveling, etc.) was far outweighed by what the bad (legalism, pride, lies, adultery, etc).
I am grateful for my experiences...Rom 8:28
Yeah, it's really too bad.
ReplyDeleteSo is the Pentecostal Church of God just as bad as NTCC? If not why not?
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete" I think old Rog was definitely wrong in a lot of his teachings and his approaches to people and the ministry, but on the other hand he started the military outreach and because of that, I was reached for Jesus. I learned a lot, both what to do and what not to do."
"I am grateful for my experiences.."
DNA said:
I have to agree with Maurice on this one. Pop Gaylord started the outreach to the Military and Davis saw a financial opportunity and completely corrupted the whole thing. Any good that ever came of anything in the ntcc was destroyed by the deception and double standards that were prevalent in this cult. I got saved in the ntcc but I was corrupted by the ntcc leadership. People are totally mixed up and completely brain washed by the teachings of this cult. Jesus taught about how seeds were planted and were choked by thorns, and that is what my ntcc experience was like. The fact that I made friends and met my wife in the ntcc made it even worse because I left the ntcc after 13 years without anything to show for it. The ntcc wasted 13 years of my life and I left in a worse state than when I came in. They wouldn't even give Maurice 20 bucks for a bus ticket home after he faithfully paid tithe and gave in offerings for years.
I used to think like you, anonymous, until I realized how corrupt this bunch was. Davis was as worthless as teats on a boar hog. What good did he do for anyone but himself? Truly I drank the Kook-aid while paying my tithes and offerings to contribute to making Davis and Kekel rich. They played us all for fools. If you were lucky enough to get out with your spouse, don't attribute that or your salvation to them. Maybe God had mercy on you and it worked out that you got a wife but for everyone who leaves with their relationship in tact, there are families that have been destroyed. For every 'good experience' you had in the ntcc, some terrible things were happening in the background. While you were collecting memories so were young girls like Julie, Lisa and many others who were molested and raped. It's hard for me to cherish any of the good memories in light of the wickedness that took place in the Servicemen's Homes that I was a part of. Three Homosexual pastors, two adulterous pastors wives and I was so brainwashed I thought that this is the last move of God on earth! It takes a while for all this to sink in but if you read the blogs and see all the corruption that was exposed by so many people, and then think about how God feels about all the people whose lives were effected by these hucksters, it's hard to think of anything that we were part of as a good experience. Romans 8:28 is a consolation scripture for sure but doesn't give us an excuse to ignore the atrocities that took place in the ntcc.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"Roger was a great motivator and speaker and he inspired me to be more than I was. He was a change agent God used in my life to propel me further than I would have gone on my own. For that, I am appreciative of the experience with him."
DNA said:
I'm sure a lot of people felt the same way about Jim Jones and David Koresh, but how did that work for them? I'm sorry but I can't buy into that. I know better. Rodger was a blow hard dictator that influenced dozens of ministers to get vasectomies because they were made to feel that children hinder the work of the Lord. Do you realize how wicked that is? Do you know how any normal person that isn't part of a cult would think that Davis was a totally sick psychopath for this? This is just the tip of the iceberg. Do you know how many people left God because of Davis? Thousands of men and women have departed over the years because they were spiritually abused. Some were physically and sexually abused. Children were beaten and treated like sub humans. Hitler was a great motivator and speaker but after he was exposed for Genocide very few want to identify with him. Hitler motivated an entire nation to watch him round up all the Jews. The Jews were openly shot in the head in front of the German people and millions were gassed and burned in ovens. Oh he was a great motivator just like Davis. Whats the difference between physical murder and spiritual murder? Ask the thousands of X-ers who hate God and don't want anything to do with Him because these money grubbing hypocrites expected them to live one way while they lived another and exhibited a total lack of love and patience with them. Ask the dozens of women who have testified that Davis either molested them when they were children or committed adultery with them or were the unlucky recipients of sexual advances by him. There are people that are walking this earth that will never find the peace of God because they were spiritually destroyed by Davis. I'm glad that you appreciate your experience with Davis, but there are more people out there that feel like they are without hope because of Davis than there are that appreciate what he has supposedly done for them. What has Davis really done for you? If a person teaches you great things but doesn't lead by example, how does that really help you? Inquiring minds would like to know.
Lots of valid points here and believe me, I understand the pain and the low points of associating with Rog and the NTCC funky bunch, but overall I was introduced to a Savior who can turn all these bad things around for the good.
ReplyDeleteIF YOU LET HIM. That is the key. I had to initially forgive them and sometimes I have to forgive them every day for Myself, not them. That bitterness of what seems like wasted years and the betrayal of who we thought was the man of God can sweep in and take the joy and life and love right out of me again, If I let it.
I will not be a victim I have the power, through Jesus, to change anything I don't like. I could have walked away back then, but I ignored obvious warning signs for so long, until I could no longer ignore them. It's the same for people in there now.
I had a great relationship with Jesus when in the military and then things started to go downhill at the Bible School, because I took my eyes off Jesus and put them on men. The key is I allowed them to be taken off Jesus.
When I left ntcc and then I just quit trying to live a Christian life because of the condemnation and the guilt they load people down with when they leave their cult. I was looking for the relationship with Jesus I had as a young man and was bitter and lost and angry and mean because I could never have that again.
The other day, I was praying and writing and the Holy Spirit was telling me to let go of the desire for that relationship I had as a young man and get a new one. That He wanted me to grow up, let go of the bitterness and the resentment and draw near to Him. He was lifting me out of the clouds of disaster I was in for so long and it has been a great journey. I wouldn't change a thing right now because of my relationship with Jesus as it is now. It's better and deeper than it ever was.
Pastor Davis in some of his words pointed us to Jesus and to a better life. Roger in most of his actions demonstrated his own shortcomings he was dealing with, i.e., sex, money, inferiority, etc. God is so much bigger than Roger and what he did.
Rog pushed me to make something of myself and to not accept what others and even myself told me I was. He said to replace anything negative about myself and replace it with the word of God. I did and I am continuing to do that.
I go back and forth between wanting ntcc to be shut down and the leaders go to prison and knowing that God can use anything to draw someone to the cross, even this bunch.
Rog spoke of Jesus and the word of God does not return void.
People who have left God, not ntcc, and I was one of them, need to quit being a victim and look unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith. He can take us through anything and come out the better for it. Read Corrie Ten Boom or Viktor Frankl's book, "Man's Search for Meaning". These are people who went through such horrible times and yet their books and lives helped so many others.
God is love and I am loved by the Creator of all things.
Anonymous said: "No one is completely good or completely evil"
ReplyDeleteAnd yet murderers still go to prison and I wouldn't want a child molester watching my children.
All actions are not equal and it is our behavior that shapes our character and reveals who we are.
What fellowship hath light with darkness?
Ultimately we either have light or darkness in our hearts.
All I ever saw was ego, greed and self serving church building, never a genuine love and concern for the members.
I would never commend that.
It wasn't Davis who pointed us to a good life. We joined a cult and we were deceived into believing that this cult was God's plan for our lives. What kind of salvation did we have? I was a lot like you Anonymous. I really feel that God saved me in the ntcc, but we were mixed in with a bunch of Pharisaical hypocrites that did more harm than good. God could have saved us in any church or any denomination and there are a lot of misguided groups out there.
ReplyDeleteTelling the truth does not make someone bitter. Warning people about the ntcc is not playing the victim. If this were true, Jesus would have spent more time praising the Pharisees and trying to convince people that that they were not all bad. He would have praised the Pharisees for introducing them to God and wouldn't have bee so bitter by calling them snakes and vipers and whited sepulchers. We compared the ntcc leadership to the great whore in Revelation and people said we were bitter and full of hate. Then Ashmore called the ntcc the great whore and everybody shouted Amen and people flocked to him to hear his wisdom.
If you realize people are in danger it does them no good to sugarcoat their situation by praising the people who are using and abusing them. Often times people get out and they do this unknowingly. They want people to know that they are saved and they were taught the whole time that they were in the cult that you can't speak against these so called "holy men of Gawd". It is very common for people to defend the ntcc hypocrites and use cult jargon like, "don't be so bitter" or "you need to move on, or get over it" towards those who are warning others about the ntcc's money grubbing ways. We want people to know what they are all about because we know. Maurice was 100% right about them. Any good they've ever done has been destroyed by their actions and lack of love towards those who Jesus loves. The ntcc Leadership has literally made people two fold more the child of the devil than they themselves are because they have misrepresented God and pushed people so far away from him that they may never find their way back and they've done this all in the name of God while profiting off of the suffering of others.
Our purpose and mission as we have often stated is to let people know that the ntcc is and was a controlling cult but that they can still have God in their lives in spite of this. We are glad when we hear that people are living for God in spite of what they went through in the ntcc. It takes time to filter out all of the false teachings. Separating what is true and real from what we learned is not an easy task. Learning from our past mistakes is part of this process. Praising the people who imprisoned us is like putting a coat of Polyurethane over a dirty surface.
ReplyDeleteask for handouts because their organization chose not to help them.
ReplyDeleteThey did this even on the german economy in Großbottwar - somebody told me not long ago. Asking people for money that have nothing to do with their church. Hey Kekel what a bad testimony your church is even abroad in Europe-Germany!!! Don't you never ever try to enter our country for we will throw you out!
Anonymous, praise God that you and your wife made it through ntcc experience still married, because many have not, if the destroyer could have destroyed your marriage he would have, he takes no prisoners.
ReplyDelete"but overall I was introduced to a Savior who can turn all these bad things around for the good. "
ReplyDeleteWhoop-di-do Anonymous. Would you like a gold star and a cookie? Those of use who were molested and abused don't have that privilege. There's a lot of us, the folks who shared their traumas on this blog doesn't even reach the tip of the iceberg. If we COULD turn these 'bad things' around. These 'bad things' ruin lives. You've been apart so long that you're sense of empathy has weakened.
I recall the first mental manipulation in 1973, Verna did the work of pushing soldiers to go to BS. RW had to boast that he never asked anyone to come to BS. He in his preaching made you feel that you could not serve God unless you went to BS and became a ntcc preacher. This is true. His sermons in Tillicum were scorching and extremely manipulative. Pop Gaylord fell under his spell. Even the Gaylords who lived God, had a fussy spell of you pushed their buttons the wrong way.
ReplyDeleteRW used so many other churches and preachers as he went up the ladder knowing full well they would be ejected and jettisoned as soon as he didn't need them. That spirit is still there and is one thing Kekel is unable to jettison itself. Payback. What a person sows, they reap. Hallelujah, our God reigns.
ReplyDelete