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Friday, December 18, 2015

Wanted: Someone in the ntcc with Truth and Integrity

We are seeking one person in the ntcc that has honesty and integrity.  We have come across information that is damaging to the ntcc that has been communicated to us by several witnesses that have left the ntcc or been coerced to leave the ntcc recently and in the past.  In our many attempts to uncover the truth we have yet to hear from anyone credible in the organization that can confirm or deny multiple accounts of abuse committed by the Executive Board of the ntcc. When researching other instances of malfeasance that were alleged in other religious organizations we have found that innocent church officials have answered such allegations immediately to clear their good names.  In other instances when church officials were silent and refused to comment on any allegations they were found to be guilty of the allegations.  The ntcc has been completely overhauled by Mike Kekel; and there are ministers that have admitted publicly that the ntcc has changed many of the rules that were once enforced as forbidden sins that would keep a person out of heaven.  To our knowledge no apologies were ever made to any of the people who were forced out of the ntcc for not complying to these excessive rules.



James Ross ("Jim") Ashmore, a long time board member and highly respected minister, teacher/apostle and recipient of a very rare and arguably worthless Doctor of Divinity degree from ntcc founder R.W. Davis, recently left the ntcc organization with no explanation and has referred to the ntcc as a whore, warning members and ministers to run for their lives.  If anyone on the planet is qualified to call the ntcc a whore, it would be Jim Ashmore.  He knows all of the people who have fornicated and committed adultery with the whore; and he was basically that whore's pimp for forty years. Although we commend James Ross Ashmore for leaving, he has not had the spine to explain why he left and why it is that he is warning people to flee.   One minister has testified that Jim Ashmore would sit in on the meetings with ministers that were accused of sins and as such was witness to Davis relieving those ministers of their credentials and demanding that they ride a church pew until they were deemed worthy to get back behind the pulpit.   James Ross ("Jim") Ashmore also was Secretary, Notary, Bible School Dean and Overseer among other titles in ntcc, and his signature was on a large number of documents that frankly implicate the ntcc in profiting off real estate which violates their non profit status.

We are looking for someone honest and that has the integrity and spine to ask Mike Kekel and Joe Olson some very important questions.  As moderators of the ntcc Xer Blog we have had many people share tragic stories of abuse that they have endured at the hands of Rodger Wilson Davis, Kekel, Olson and James Ross ("Jim") Ashmore.  Many of the testimonies that have come to us are first hand accounts of sexual abuse committed by ntcc founder, Rodger Wilson Davis.  While Davis was influencing several ministers to get vasectomies because, as he claimed, "Children hinder the work of the Lord", it was reported that Davis molested, and by legal definition raped a 16 year old girl named Pam Norton.  At the time of this incident, Pam was married to Johnny Jordan.  Johnny had previously raped a bible school student named Ken who has come forward on this blog and shared his horrific story.  Ken has recently had recorded conversations with Johnny Jordan who, while in prison for raping a child, admitted to his act of cruelty of raping Ken; in fact Jordan also made a point to tell Ken he wasn't high on drugs as he had once claimed and Jordan stated that he "enjoyed it".  The marriage of Pam and Johnny Jordan happened with Davis' knowledge that Johnny Jordan had forcibly raped Bro Ken.  Davis even allowed this sexually deviant man Johnny Jordan to work for him in the office at St. Louis while Davis was having his way with Johnny's sixteen year old wife Pam (Norton) Jordan.  During this time period Johnny Jordan raped Pam's younger sister, Lisa Norton, and got her pregnant at the age of 14. Lisa Norton was the youngest girl to ever graduate from the ntcc bible school at the time.  Lisa reported that she was also physically abused by her mother, Barbara Norton Warwick.  Barbara Norton abandoned two of her children - pregnant by rape Lisa and Lisa's special needs brother Terry at Davis' behest on Christmas day. Later Davis dispatched Jim Ashmore to run Lisa and her best friend Lori Kelley out of the church.  Lisa and Lori both stated that J. R. Ashmore called them whores and sluts in front of the entire congregation, humiliating them and causing them years of grief.  They believe he did this so that they would leave and never come back.  It was hoped that their story would never be told in the ears of anyone from the ntcc.  Meanwhile, Barbara Norton and child rapist Johnny Jordan along with his wife Pam, whom Davis was molesting, were all moved to Graham Washington and these sex crimes were brushed under the carpet.  But just as dirt under a carpet mounds up, so did these sex sins.  Pam and Lisa have an older sister and it was shared that Davis made unwanted sexual advances toward her too; but she denied him, being older and mature enough to know that it was wrong.  Other slightly older married women have shared that Davis made inappropriate visits to their houses while they their husbands were at work.  Two of them simply did not open the door for him. And they did see him knocking on the doors of other married women, and even entering some.  One lady even admitted that "the same thing" happened with her as had been shared by Pam.  There are many allegations and testimonies of other instances of physical and sexual abuse.  Families have been separated and children have been displaced because of the policies and rules enforced by the ntcc leadership.  A former Board Member's wife also stated that early in her tenure with ntcc, while she was alone in the office with Davis, he asked her, "What part of your body does your husband like the best?" and he wouldn't leave her alone until she awkwardly answered his sexually-innuendo-laden and inappropriate question.

There are too many corroborating accounts of this abuse to ignore.  The bible only requires two or three witnesses.  Wake up folks.  There are more than that who have testified on this blog alone.  We know that many ntcc'rs and Xers alike would love for us to drop this and leave it alone. Unfortunately we feel obligated to follow up on this because Mikey Kekel, Jimmy Ashmore, Joey Olson and Stodgy Rodgy Davis have tried to ignore this altogether and refuse to address it.  To our knowledge nobody has denied that any of this took place; and in the light of all the suffering that was caused by these sick acts we are looking for someone that has the backbone simply to ask Kekel about his knowledge of what took place. We are looking for someone in the Graham area, current or past member or minister that is not afraid to ask Kekel about these accounts of abusive behavior by R.W. Davis.  Please be aware of weasel words and misleading lingo that Kekel and the ntcc leadership have used in the past to avoid questions.  Vic testified that Kekel and Kinson proudly boasted of "feeling up" their underage teen dates, (Tanya Davis and Debbie Johnson), and when Kekel was confronted regarding this by Bruce Smith of the Mountain News, Kekel replied, "We didn't go there".  That is not a straight answer.  You either did or you didn't feel her up. Yes or no.  Don't accept weasel words.  Kinson was confronted on Chief's blog about leaving his wallet in a whore house and he came on the blog and said, "I never slept with anyone but my wife".  Those are also weasel words.  Nobody ever accused him of sleeping and who goes to a whore house to sleep, anyway?


Clinton perjured himself by saying he "never had sex with that woman"; but DNA proved that he received oral sex from Monica Lewinsky as she had testified. Be aware of snakes.  They come in all shapes and sizes, with scales on their eyelids. (TobyMac).  If Kekel tries to say, I wasn't there, ask him specifically if he has any knowledge of it.  Don't let him weasel his way out of it.  While you are at it ask him if Kinson was moved from Japan/Okinawa to Graham because he was reported for visiting a whore house.  I guarantee that Kekel knows about that.  Ask him if Ralph St. Clair lost his license for having sexual intercourse (raping) with his preteen daughter Julie.  These are all questions that can be answered with a simple yes or no.  While you are at it, ask Kekel to show you where in the New Testament we are commanded to pay tithe with the judgment of hell hanging over us if we don't?

 Don't be Fooled Again!  Keep your Brain  and Use it to Recognize Money Making  Scams 

Why should we ignore these things and pretend like the same people who oppressed us with man made rules and got rich doing so, should not have to answer for any of their own perverted actions?  Why should anyone be so naive as to think that Kekel got rich investing his money or that God has blessed him for being super spiritual when countless people have testified of being victims of harassment and ridicule for doing things that Kekel himself has done openly?

So we are looking for someone who has the backbone and integrity to ask Kekel and Olson about these reports of abuse.  We highly doubt that anyone will stand for these victims; and we are not holding our breath.  We know that any such questions will be recompensed with judgment and ridicule.  This is precisely how cults operate; anyone who 'gets out of line' thinks for himself will get raised up and have the blocks knocked out from underneath him.  They were here before you and they will be there long after you are gone.  Another phony church hypocritical leader gets away with abuse and as long as people go along with it they will continue to abuse folks.

Let us ask you something.  If today you saw a 24 year old dude groping a 15 year old girl, would you follow him into the ministry and call him Sir and ask his spiritual advice?  That's what you do when you follow kekel.  He did that to Tanya, bragged about it, refused to repent, and yet you follow him. Why?  How about it Gilbert Luna (if you're still there)?  Any answer for that?  Would you want someone to do that to your daughter?  Would you stand around and let it happen?  Why do you stay in the ntcc?  How about any of you so-called men?  Are you going to invite someone to attend ntcc, and then, when that family reports that their kids were raped or molested, what will you say to their parents?

The sad thing is that many of you Xers have jumped in bed with James Ross ("Jim") Ashmore and you are getting ready to make the same devastating mistakes that you made with the ntcc.  We challenge you to ask Jim Ashmore a few questions also.  Did he call Lisa and Lori sluts and whores from behind the pulpit in front of  a church crowd to run them off for R.W. Davis?  Yes or no?  Did he say anything negative to them at Davis' request?  I would respect him more if he would man up and come forward about his involvement with the ntcc.  If you are supporting him, you owe the ntcc leaders an apology.  He was just as involved in the splitting up of families and the profiting off of tithe as anyone else in the ntcc. He was Davis' hatchet man; and he did whatever Davis ordered him to do.  If he were truly repentant and concerned about saving people from the whore he would come clean and admit his part in this wicked organization.  Instead he has created his own whore, given her a fresh coat of make up, and sold her to the ntcc xers!  He's just a religious pimp profiteering off folks so desperate for approval that they refuse to recognize the simple truth that Jim Ashmore's religious group is just an imitation of the ntcc model, a new whore to get the pimp rich.




We are living in a time of false prophets and false teachers.  There are thousands of religions and thousands of doctrines.  Everyone thinks that they have a monopoly on the truth and if you don't get behind their program you will be condemned to an eternity in hell.  Why would anyone who has been through hell on earth in the ntcc be so quick to get cozy with James Ross Ashmore?  How many more years of your life will you waste trying to obtain the approval of a hypocrite?  He is running the same scam under a different name.  He is the same person that he was in the ntcc.  He admits no wrong and will not implicate his former partners in crime with any specific wrong doing.  If you believe his lie about not knowing anything, you are gullible and just as culpable if you support him as you would be supporting Kekel or Olson.  You don't just leave an organization after oppressing people for 40 years and start calling them the great whore without any clue as to why you led them down that road of prostitution.  He can see you coming.  You were suckered one time and you can be suckered again. You're just recycled Johns.  Don't ask him any questions, and don't scrutinize him.  Don't wonder in your heart why he is still secretive or why he is still not transparent about church finances.  You jumped off of one sinking ship and survived only to get on another sinking ship.  But it's Jim (James Ross) and Helen ("Nin") Ashmore.  They are such wonderful people aren't they?  They didn't write that letter full of lies to Greg Shunk saying that they would be supported by the ntcc as missionaries did they?  Oh, perhaps that letter was a forgery or they didn't know that they wouldn't actually be supported. I'm sure Jim Ashmore's having been all over the world didn't have a clue as to what was going on.  He's either blind, stupid, grossly incompetent, or just a big fat liar.  HELLO.  And Helen is just another bobble-head borg wife, blithely smiling and nodding her head as if all is well, while hiding in her heart some of the darkest secrets on earth!  Don't be like them.  Don't join yourselves to this latest ntcc splinter group.  It's just a bad remake of the same old same old.  Just another whore; one allowed to wear make up and jeans, but every bit the whore, same as ntcc.  Another body to be exploited in order for the pimp to have a phat wallet.  Wake up.



Come on people.  Beware of hypocrites.  Beware of phony showmanship. Ministers today should be teaching people how to live for God on their own and how to stand for God in the absence of church leaders; because there are too many religions and money hungry posers out there that don't care about your spiritual welfare.  We're going to give you one little piece of spiritual advice; and you can throw it away or disregard it if you want.  Don't trust any man with your salvation; and don't throw your money away into a program or a building.  Jesus never asked for a dime and never was concerned about having a building.  It was all about loving others and helping one another.  He was a servant of all and admonished his followers to be the same.  You can't go wrong if you follow the model that Jesus left for us.  Mathew, Mark, Luke and John penned it all down for us, and very few seem to want to follow the example of Jesus.  Salvation is free; and Christianity was never intended to be dictated to you by a bunch of hirelings that want to profit off of your misery.

70 comments:

  1. They are some very self-centered people that claim to be like Christ yet Jesus while on earth care for others above himself He taught his disciples to do the same.

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  2. The more I think about this, and you or others may have mentioned, it seems that they take away the sincerity of loving Christ. You know like how communism takes freedom away one step at a time. It becomes more robotic than a true relationship. Mc Kekel reminds me of Barry O.

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  3. Anonymous said...
    They are some very self-centered people that claim to be like Christ yet Jesus while on earth care for others above himself He taught his disciples to do the same.

    DNA said:

    That's a very important observation. If people in the ntcc would allow themselves to have the same revelation, they would be one step closer to freedom. People follow the wrong examples and the ntcc hirelings set the wrong examples for them to follow. Jesus told Judas, "What thou doest, do quickly". Judas was the treasurer and he had the bag which had money in it. The rest of the disciples supposed that Jesus was directing Judas to give money to the poor. Why would the disciples think this? Would they think that Jesus instructed Judas to give money to the poor if he hadn't done so several times in the past? If Jesus never instructed Judas to give to the poor, this thought never would have entered into the disciples minds. Can anyone out there in ntcc la la land recount one time in the history of the ntcc that Kekel or Davis have ever instructed anyone to give to the poor? Can any of you ntcc'rs refresh our memory as to when they or anyone were ever taught by Davis or Kekel to give to the poor? Or to minister to the poor? When has anyone in the ntcc ever cared about the poor? If the love of Christ were really present in their lives, helping the poor would be a byproduct of their Christianity.

    So who gets helped in the ntcc? Jesus knew who was going to betray him so why did Jesus allow Judas to carry the bag? Could it be that Jesus wasn't all about money? Who holds the bag in the ntcc? Kekel used to hold it, or so his title suggested. Now the bag is too small to hold all the riches that Kekel has accumulated and there are no poor people that can testify that Kekel has ever lifted a finger to help them. The bag has grown into a series of bank accounts, real estate investments, mansions, Recreational Vehicles, sports cars, furnishings, Jacuzzis and amenities that flaunt wasteful and excessive living before the financially distraught people who enabled the McKekels to become filthy rich. Nobody in the ntcc can realistically claim that they thought that the money was going toward the poor. As they give, the only fruit of their labor that can be seen is Kekel flaunting his money before them all. Kekel knows that you all are a bunch of suckers and he will continue to play you as long as you are willing to open your wallets and empty them out into the offering bucket. Judas never intended on feeding the poor, but his plans were to betray Jesus to the religious hypocrites that were getting rich off of God's people and could care less about the poor. Judas got his 30 pieces of silver while Jesus paid a whole lot more for our sins. What kind of lasting contributions will Kekel make towards the Kingdom of heaven? What kind of example is he setting for the monkey see monkey do crowd that strives to duplicate his works?

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  4. Acts 20:30 "Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them".

    I have to highly recommend this youtube video addressing what could easily be NTCC. Trust me on this, this will speak straight to you as a exntccer or someone who is seeing the light.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fKWELPtWEo

    and here is the link to the websight she keeps referencing.
    http://pimppreacher.com/

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  5. You know I saw an article (3 separate parts to it) and was titled "Warning signs of spiritual abuse". now this is a blog that covered ANY church. And who ever typed it covers all true accounts of pastoral abuse from other different churches. Anyways one of these sighns was, they make it hard for you to leave. That is what I went through long ago and reading these three part stories of real accounts, it really touched on my experience.

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  6. Merry Christmas! Hope everyone enjoys this day and the reason for this season. We spend a lot of time blogging against hypocrites and it's unfortunate but as long as they continue to live one way and preach that others should follow, we feel obligated to point out the double standards. But today we would like to reflect on Christmas, the day that Jesus came into this world as a baby, born of a virgin, in a manger to save us all from our sins and to give us hope for eternity. I know many of you have heard this message a million times but to us it never gets old and because of what Jesus did, we all can experience the joy and peace that we were intended to have in our lives. We are not here to preach, "You better get right", or "Why aren't you in church?" or "You need to do this or that to make it to heaven". Our God is a God of compassion and love above everything else that you may have heard of Him. It's by grace that we live and breath and regardless of what we go through on this planet, Jesus desires that none of us parish. Some emphasize judgement and punishment so much that the true message of the cross is overlooked. Is there a heaven and a hell? There sure is. But it's not all gloom and doom. What does God want from us? Does he want us to attend a church five days a week and put every spare penny in an offering plate so a preacher can buy himself a new Cadillac every year? Does Jesus want us to dress a certain way and live by the letter of the law? Does he want us to be threatened with hell for not paying tithe, or not subjecting yourself to rules that are not even in the bible? What does God want from us? God wants us to love Him and to share his compassion with the world. Love reigns and if you live your life in a way that shows compassion to others, love towards your neighbor and you do it because you love God, not because some hypocrite uses Christianity to extract money out of your wallet and bank account, but if your actions and words are directed by the love that Christ has shared with us, you can't go wrong.

    We believe that X-members of the ntcc have been through a lot and it is a huge adjustment for folks to transition into life outside of the cult. We are not looking for people to follow us and we definitely are not looking for money, but our purpose and mission is to help people realize that God still loves them even though they left the ntcc. Jesus never stopped loving any of us just because we left the ntcc. If you really look at the history of people who carry themselves like the ntcc leadership does, you would realize that God has wanted you to come out from among them for years and any state you are in outside of the ntcc is an improvement of the life of hypocrisy that is glorified inside this cult. We all did the best we could to live up to the standards that were manufactured and taught as God's mandate for heaven bound saints but none of us and none of those who still strive in the confines of this abusive cult will ever be able to reflect the true character of God in their lives because it does not exist in the ntcc. They take the Christ out of Christianity. How do you claim to be a Christian when you don't have compassion towards anyone outside of your clique? If Christ is in your life, how do you give your money to make Kekel filthy rich, while ignoring the homeless and poor that cry out all around you?

    There is a more excellent way and it has very little to do with the church world today. We don't come preaching another gospel and we are not interested in pedaling any strange doctrines today. Its Christmas and Christianity is all about a personal relationship between you and God. It's not our place to add anything to the message. Jesus died for you and loves you. We hope that you love him back and love others as yourself. Merry Christmas!

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  7. How many people are left that have been there 15 plus years? Do think any more board members will leave? With the internet and there being so many different churches how to the bad ones like NTCC still gain new people?

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  8. As long as people feel the need to follow a man beyond their own convictions to follow false doctrines and seek the approval of others, they will stay. It wouldn't surprise me if several of the board members left to get their own piece of the pie. Rodrigues might be the next to follow his buddy Ashmore out. Other disgruntled old timers who feel under appreciated might follow. Some people never learn. You would think after witnessing the hypocrisy of people like Ashmore for decades that they would use extreme caution before joining up with them in a splinter group. People are hypocrites with this cult. They will rail against the ntcc while ignoring Ashmores indiscretions and deceiptful involvement. Anyone who joins up with him should apologize to the ntcc hypocrites because they are all birds of a feather. There is a whole dirty laundry list of Ashmore abusing people while in the ntcc. Has Ashmore ever spoken out against Davis? He calls the ntcc the great whore but what about it's founder RDW who initiated all of it's whoredoms? It would be one thing if Ashmore publicly admitted his own wrong doing and sought forgiveness from the people he wronged, but he hasn't changed. What is different about his ministry now as opposed to when he was in the ntcc? His followers are so much like ntcc followers it's ridiculous. They can't defend the indefensible so they keep everything private because Ashmore can't answer for any of the things he's done, and people are oblivious. It's a cesspool of hypocrisy. Those who have witnessed the ntcc and it's abuses are ignoring Ashmores roll in the ntcc and turning a blind eye to what he is doing now. Was Ashmore just ignorantly following Davis the whole time he was in? He knows too much and his silence and privacy allows him to benefit and profit off of the misery of former members while enabling the ntcc to continue their abuse. Ashmore is like Generic drug. He dulls your senses and relieves some of your pain but the ingredients are just about the same. He hides behind his private blog, telling people what they want to hear while profiting off of them. It might be a little cheaper and it might seem like he's offering more freedom so people continue to follow him blindly without questioning his motives. The showmanship of a healing ministry appeals to many but it's really no different than what he did in the ntcc. In fact if you look at many of the cults who use healing to lure people in, it's often based on sensationalism and attracts many attention seekers who claim false healings. Some may actually receive healing based on their own faith, but when it's used to create streams of income that make preachers more disgustingly rich than they already are, you have to question the integrity of that so called man of God. Jesus healed many that had serious life long ailments without profiting and those miricles can not be denied. There were a lot of people dying around Ashmore when he was in the ntcc and in all of the miraculous healings that he supposedly was involved in can anyone recount him healing someone who they knew for a fact was severely deformed, permanently blind or deaf, diagnosed with stage 4 cancer or healing broken bones? I'm not marginalizing minor illnesses or sicknesses, but let's not be gullible either. We can't change people and we have no interest in controlling anyone. We know first hand how devastating the ntcc was to so many people in the organization.

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  9. Ashmore was cold as ice towards my own mother when she visited the Servicemen's home in Colorado Springs. She drove all the way down there from Denver to meet Ashmore and hear him preach at my request when I was in Korea. My mom loved God much more than the ntcc hypocrites and the evidence of God's hand in her life was greater than that of so many prominent ntcc pastors. She got saved and her life changed for the better. She ignored the hypocrisy of the Tiemans who tried to convince her that she needed to dress like them to be a Christian and she showed more love to the people around her than any phony ntcc preacher ever did. Her love wasn't conditional. The ntcc and Ashmore would shun people and treat others like absolute garbage if they didn't approve of them. They are all a bunch of hypocrites, snakes and vipers. They didn't care back then and they still don't care about anyone but themselves and how comfortable their lives can be as they profit off of the labors of others. Many X-members have forgotten what they went through and so many of the long time preachers and/or wives who got out and blogged about Ashmore and Davis are now secretly following him. Perhaps they want that same watered down religious hypocrisy or they just want approval and recognition from someone who they once worshiped. I once held Ashmore in the same high regard while in the ntcc. Now he is out and calling everyone else in the ntcc whores. What makes him different? Has he really changed or has he just put on a different mask? What you do with your life is your business and I'm positive that my opinion matters very little in the grand scheme of things. To sit back and watch people blindly following a known huckster and con artist after leaving the source of Ashmores false doctrine is disturbing and all we can do is try to help people think rationally. What you do with the truth is entirely up to you, but people who don't learn from the past are most likely going to repeat it. We have encouraged people in the past to confront Kekel and their ntcc preachers about their hypocrisy. How many of you Ashmorgites have confronted him about his involvement in the ntcc? Why should he get a pass? Has he done anything to earn a free pass? What has he done that's any different than any of the other ntcc hypocrites? He's nothing more than a pimp calling out other pimps as if he were never involved in the ntcc. He was a ring leader of that sect. If you have been given a new lease on life and escaped the cult experience don't join up with the same loser who helped brainwash you in the first place. That's like getting burned by Jim Bakker and going to Jimmy Swaggart for help. Who will you run to next when you find out it's all a scam?

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  10. Don said:

    "We can't change people and we have no interest in controlling anyone".

    Those members of the NTCC organization do not even realize the liberating and eye opening healing and power in those words. The intoxicating drive to change and control the people they seek to indoctrinate has made slaves and prisoners of both the converts and those who propagate the underlying message of NTCC. When it is all said and done it takes the Holy Ghost to prod and apply the eye salve to those in need, not Don or anyone else. If you are a hard core NTCCite then you do what you think you need to do put if you want to get out of the changing and controlling business then set yourself free.

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  11. Bryan said:

    "The intoxicating drive to change and control the people they seek to indoctrinate has made slaves and prisoners of both the converts and those who propagate the underlying message of NTCC."

    DNA said:

    So true. There are alot of folks that continue to propogate the underlying message of the ntcc. Maybe we don't belong on Facebook. We see so much junk that people post that really leads us to believe that while people have left the ntcc, they really haven't left the rules and hypocrisy. It's like many wish they were still in. That ship has sailed but lets all find another ship to board that's going in the same direction. Some people hop from cult to cult. Gandy was a mormon and now he is a controlling and manipulative ntcc pastor. Many others have left the ntcc and sought new abusers who could think for them and structure their lives for them. People seem to need someone to follow and they revel in the controlling ways of others. It's a strange phenomenon in the spiritual realm. An escapee from a concentration camp would never seek to go live in another concentration camp after they were freed. But many people who leave cults seem to gravitate to other controlling groups. Paul said: "Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage." Gal 5:1 People were more willing to keep the law than they were to suffer for Christ. People are in bondage in the ntcc to manmade rules but they would rather stay in that bondage than to seek freedom. They are institutionalized by the false doctrine and they have chosen to follow their corrupt leaders rather than to seek Christ's greater riches. We see evidence of this every day on Facebook. The monkey see monkey do Christians are conditioned to replicate their cult leaders actions and words. It's a routine and even when many people leave they tend to keep the facade going. When we used to refer to the ntcc as the great whore there were many on both sides of the ntcc that would call us bitter and say that we needed to move on with our lives. People hated us for sharing the testimonies of others that exposed the ntcc. For some reason, Ashmore has gone public stating many of the same things that we have been sharing for years and these same folks are tripping over each other trying to find acceptance from him. They are still slaves and prisoners to the same ideals. Salvation was never intended to be about forced worship and routines that are religiously kept by pious seekers of notoriety. But what do we know? We are just bitter Xers filled with hate and animosity towards these wonderful rich people.

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  12. Like a lot of rules and regulations in NTCC they contradict themselves. For one example when I used to live in the home there was a homebrother that played video games a lot, I mean a while lot. The pastor walks in says hello but nothing at all said about the video game ��. But one time he scolds a homebrother for watching a nice clean Disney movie �� and tells him to put it up and no more watching any movies. That don't make sense. I know what it is, the rule that watching TV is a sin you know the deal. Well you know video games are WAY more adictive and of distraction than a TV. It's like they allow women to wear skirts below their knees but a man is not aloud to wear shorts below his knees. What an oxymoron

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  13. so have you reached out to anyone? Call one of the old timers up and just ask for his input. I don't see many "old timers" left other than those who've retained a position. There are some out there if their directory is any good. Just call and tell them you'd like to know there thoughts and feelings about everything that's transpired. Surely if you tell them they'll remain anon they might talk to some degree.

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  14. Christianity is so simple if you LIVE these two commandments from Jesus. Matt. 22:37-40: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul. This is the greatest commandment. Second, love your neighbor as yourself. There are no greater commandments than these.

    When one reads the Bible, understands and embraces these two commandments, one will live a life emulating Christ. You will no longer have room in your heart for man made NTCC rules. As a matter of fact, you will quickly see the hypocrisy of NTCC and how it hinders your walk with Christ.

    I had to leave NTCC for many reasons but one of the main ones was that I was ridiculed for giving money to food banks and dropping off groceries anonymously on the door step of "sinners" that had empty cubbards. Yes, I mingled with the unsaved and started only using my tithe for food banks and the needy. I decided to live my life as Christ commanded and it did not go unnoticed by my ex or NTCC. All hell broke loose and I left NTCC and my ex. It was best decision I ever made as a Christian.

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  15. Without an unhealthy concept of both hell and satan an organization such as the NTCC has no wind for the sails. when you add having a vision and religious goals such as a building program you then have a great money making machine. By the way if you leave you go to hell and they also say that satan has you now.

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  16. Anonymous said:

    "I know what it is, the rule that watching TV is a sin you know the deal. Well you know video games are WAY more adictive and of distraction than a TV."

    DNA said:

    Interesting new dynamic in the ntcc. When we were in, nobody would be caught dead playing video games or watching TV in any of the Servicemen's Homes. The ntcc is full of hypocrites. They follow the lead of people like Kekel, rather than doing what God wants them to do. It is getting harder and harder for people to be led by the Spirit in the ntcc because there are so many man made rules that people just do whatever they can get away with or whatever they see done by their pastor and board members. Board members are now going to Football games. What is the difference between attending a football game and watching one on TV? They are hypocrites and they bind heavy burdens on others which are grievous to be borne, while they do whatever they want. These hypocrites are getting rich off of the giving of anyone who is gullible enough to ignore their double standards.

    ReplyDelete
  17. Anonymous said:

    "Call one of the old timers up and just ask for his input. I don't see many "old timers" left other than those who've retained a position."

    DNA said:

    I understand why you are saying this. However, we are looking for someone on the inside to do this because we are considered to be devils and haters of God by many in the ntcc. If I were to call any of the old timers that are still in and ask them about tithe or any of the issues that are brought up on this blog, they wouldn't give me the time of day. They would tell me that I just need to get saved and hang up on me. In the little exposure that we have had with talking to ntcc ministers on the blogs, we have found that they will not answer any of our questions and they usually are too self centered to entertain any questions. Usually they are too ashamed to leave their names and they have no answers.

    We want someone on the inside to get a backbone and confront these hypocrites. I know that it might be a spiritual death sentence but what's the point in living a lie and pretending to be saved if you can't confront the hypocrisy of the people you idolize? We never expected anyone to confront these hypocrites, because most people in the ntcc are followers. There are very few leaders and even the ones that are esteemed as leaders never question the double standards that every minister in the ntcc preaches. We hope that by confronting them with these double standards that one person would turn on their brain and think for themselves. We hope that one person would have the spine to confront the ntcc leadership about the lies regarding tithe and offerings that are being taught behind every pulpit in the organization. If there is not one scripture that commands gentiles to pay tithe in the entire bible, why would they teach it, and why would ntcc followers sit back and watch the Kekels get richer and richer off of their tithe without saying a word to him? If they had integrity they would answer. We have yet to have one person identify themselves as an ntcc pastor, come on this blog and defend the tithe doctrine. They can't minister without preaching lies to people. They feel they can't support a servicemen's home with out lying to GI's and telling them that they will die and go to hell if they don't pay tithe or that they will be too heavy to go in the rapture if they don't pay their tithe. I wish I could point to one minister or one church in the entire organization that has enough faith to have a ministry that is supported entirely by free will offerings, but I can't, and neither can they because their treasure is not in heaven but down here in Kekel's mansion and garage or tied up in real estate. You are not going to die and go to hell for not paying these con artists your tithe. In fact you've got a much better chance of dying and going to hell for enforcing their hypocritical rules on others while they break these very rules themselves on a daily basis.

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  18. Freebird said...
    Christianity is so simple if you LIVE these two commandments from Jesus. Matt. 22:37-40: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind and soul. This is the greatest commandment. Second, love your neighbor as yourself. There are no greater commandments than these.

    DNA said:

    Great comment Freebird. We share your belief that these tow commandments, if kept are enough to keep a person saved and get them to heaven. God just wants our love and for us to love one another. He doesn't want our money, nor does He need it.

    Freebird said:

    "When one reads the Bible, understands and embraces these two commandments, one will live a life emulating Christ. You will no longer have room in your heart for man made NTCC rules. As a matter of fact, you will quickly see the hypocrisy of NTCC and how it hinders your walk with Christ. "

    DNA said:

    Great point. If you are being taught to only give your money to the ntcc hypocrites and not to not to do anything to help the less fortunate, you are being manipulated and prevented from doing what God called us to do. Rules in the ntcc prevent you from loving your brother or anyone else and money that could be used to show love to people who need it, is hoarded by people like the Kekels who are dripping with wealth and are not needy at all. They will blame people for being poor and starving, while they keep spending money on their own creature comforts.

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  19. Freebird said:

    "I had to leave NTCC for many reasons but one of the main ones was that I was ridiculed for giving money to food banks and dropping off groceries anonymously on the door step of "sinners" that had empty cubbards. Yes, I mingled with the unsaved and started only using my tithe for food banks and the needy. I decided to live my life as Christ commanded and it did not go unnoticed by my ex or NTCC. All hell broke loose and I left NTCC and my ex. It was best decision I ever made as a Christian."

    DNA said:

    You committed the unforgivable sin in the ntcc by not paying your tithe to the ntcc. Helping someone that needs help is not on the ntcc agenda. Everyone knows that in the ntcc, all Christians pay tithe and give in offerings. You broke protocol by actually showing the love of Christ to those who need it most. You offended these money grubbing hypocrites by doing what Jesus did. It is so telling that giving to the poor would be the cause of all hell breaking loose in the ntcc. When a real Christian comes along, their true colors can be clearly seen. Jesus would have been blasted by these ntcc hypocrites for feeding thousands of people when he could have sold that food out in front of an ntcc church and given the proceeds to their money grubbing figure heads. If the ntcc doesn't profit from it, you are just seen as a hindrance to their ministry. You can lead an ntcc'r to the truth, but you can't make them think.

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  20. Bryan Hill said:

    "Without an unhealthy concept of both hell and satan an organization such as the NTCC has no wind for the sails. when you add having a vision and religious goals such as a building program you then have a great money making machine. By the way if you leave you go to hell and they also say that satan has you now."

    DNA said:

    That describes the ntcc in a nutshell. If it were not for hell and satan, the ntcc would be out of business. What would they use to spread fear in the hearts of their loyal subjects? How else would they get people to pay tithe. It's certainly not a biblical commandment for New Testament Christians. Their vision of souls is nothing more than an excuse to get into your wallet. Leaving the ntcc is the only way you will ever be free to exercise true Christianity, but in their opinion, leaving will cause you to split hell wide open. No wonder ntcc ministers have that glazed over look. They are so busy trying to work their way into heaven and so afraid of spending eternity in hell that they don't have time to figure out what it is that they are really called to do. They over-ride any and all conviction to obtain the approval of people like Kekel, Olson, Jones, Johnson and Tieman while their only focus is on money and numbers.

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  21. It looks like ms Davis and stclaire are in the glendale facebook page picture.
    Looks like they are having the time of their life without their husbands to boss them around, I wonder if they go soulwinning too, ; )

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  22. There is a huge part of me that can never comprehend ANYONE following Ashmore or any other ex-NTCC "elite" pastors. Then I think about how an abused spouse will keep returning to their abuser. The abused will go back thinking the abuser has "changed this time". Unfortunately the change never occurs and at the subconcious level the victim knows how to play the role of victim and can find comfort in it.

    Many ex-NTCCERS are those spiritually abused "spouses". They keep returning to the familiar even though Ashmore and the like have not and will not change. Those of us that have spiritually healed from the abuse can only hope and pray that the spirtually abused will one day be willing to stop the cycle of abuse that they keep putting themselves into.

    All we can do is keep stating the obvious. One day something will click in the spiritually abused minds and they will find the strength to trust God and break the cycle of abuse.

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  23. The Kekels, who have never pioneered a work, seem to be trying to add validation to there credentials by taking expensive trips to biblical sites that are mention in the bible. It also seem to be a lack of faith in the word, the bible speaks of those places, so the kekels, have to visit a bunch of old ruinous structures for what, to make sure that they are there? Where is there faith? Is that not what religious folk do? I contend that because the kekels have never pioneered a work that they will do, and say anything to raise there profile and keep there members from seeing the truth. Phony, Phony, Phony, Jim and Tammy-faye baker type Phoness.

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  24. Happy new year! God is in control even if we do not understand it all. I have been out now for 21 years and never regretted one day. I hope you all have a wonderful new year whether your in or out of the NTCC. Part of being liberated from the NTCC mind-frame is being able to wish the best for all no matter their religious affiliation or status in life.

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  25. Anonymous said...
    It looks like ms Davis and stclaire are in the glendale facebook page picture.
    Looks like they are having the time of their life without their husbands to boss them around, I wonder if they go soulwinning too, ; )

    DNA said:

    It never ceases to amaze me how that the Kekels and Verna surround themselves with the worst of company. It was shared that the Kekels were pretty tight with Barbara Norton and the St. Clairs back when they were exposed on this blog for some really sick stuff. It was reported that the Kekels paid their way to conference among other acts of favoritism. When Phil Kinson was caught visiting a whore house, he became Kekel's right hand man.

    It has to grieve God that the worst offenders in the ntcc have been exalted and glorified as sufferers of persecution that need special coddling and favoritism among the borg leadership. Now we understand the concept of mercy and grace but these same hypocrites never showed mercy or grace to the victims of Barbara Norton or the St. Clairs. In fact there are a lot of people who were stepped on and kicked around in the ntcc that were discarded and never thought of again. Now we are expected to forgive and forget, and many times its been suggested that we are the ones who are unmerciful and unforgiving because we have the audacity to expose these creeped out sycophants for their double standards and hypocrisy. We really messed up when we expected Ashmore to be forthcoming and transparent. We got some nasty feedback when we started sharing testimonies from people who have been hurt by the Ashmores. How dare we speak against them or suggest that they had anything to do with the decades of corruption in the ntcc.

    Meanwhile people ignore what Kekel, Davis, Olson and Ashmore have done to others. According to them, we are the devils that should just let it go and forgive and forget. They make their living by creating an atmosphere that causes others to live in fear and guilt. People who have been kicked to the curb have testified against them and testified publicly on the internet about the hypocrisy and this doesn't sit well with the ntcc cronies. It also rubs ntcc'rs wrong because it rains on their religious parade and shines light on their phoniness. Even many of the X-members of the ntcc who sympathize with the borg leadership find reasons to point their fingers at us as if we created all the misery that exists because of people like Kekel and Ashmore. They have yet to answer for any of the people who they have hurt and now they play the victims and are milking it for all they can get. As long as the money keeps flowing in, they will continue to harden their hearts and you will never get any apologies or explanations from them. The hurt will keep hurting and those who were wronged will never hear a peep from the likes of Kekel or Ashmore.

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  26. Freebird said:

    "Then I think about how an abused spouse will keep returning to their abuser."

    DNA said:

    This is a very good point and one that we also have made in the past. Victims of domestic abuse will suffer violence and all types of physical, emotional and sexual abuse. It seems that when people reach out to these folks to help them, more often than not, they will disregard the people who really care and they will go back to their abusers. They endanger themselves and their children. I have a lot of respect for those who fight back and remove themselves from that abusive situation. When they take it a step further and become an advocate for others that are in the same situation that they came out of, it speaks volumes for their character while exposing the abusers and making it harder for them to continue wrecking lives.

    My mother married an abusive jerk who was my older half brother's dad. He would beat her and my older brother who was just an infant at the time. My mom did the right thing and left him. She moved from Minnesota all the way to California with my older brother and she didn't tell a soul where she went. She didn't even tell my grandparents because she didn't want them to involved when her abusive husband interrogated them. Many victims of abuse never attempt to remove themselves from the source of the abuse and they endure incredible amounts of internal torture over and over again.

    This is what it like in the ntcc. It's spiritual abuse plain and simple. We all suffered in different degrees and the longer we stayed the more we enabled them to control our lives. As the abuser always blames the victim, so it was in the ntcc. We dared not confront these abusers about their abusive ways or we would be humiliated and further abused. We tried so hard to love our abusers in hope that we would be accepted of them but it never happens. Everyone has their place in the ntcc and if you don't submit, you will never be free. As Freebird shared, it is a cycle of abuse that must be eventually broken. The ntcc is a scam and everything revolves around making a few people rich. When their enterprise is threatened and exposed the abuse increases and the thumbscrews are tightened. Hell is presented as the eternal resting place of anyone who dares to think for themselves and if you ever try to break this cycle you will become an outcast in the eyes of these abusers and all the other oppressed victims. This is why they call it a cult.

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  27. Maurice said:

    " It also seem to be a lack of faith in the word, the bible speaks of those places, so the kekels, have to visit a bunch of old ruinous structures for what, to make sure that they are there? Where is there faith? Is that not what religious folk do?"

    DNA said:

    Another very good observation. The Kekels are doing everything they can to create a new image. While it's incomprehensible that they would spend so much of the tithe payers money to take an all expense paid trip half way around the world, it also seems to fit in to their profile of trying to make others believe that they have been there and done that. I guess everyone is supposed to be in awe that they are so well traveled because in all actuality they really haven't done anything for God. Everything they do wreaks of hypocrisy. If you ever visit their social media pages you will see what we mean. They quote so many other motivational speakers and they have adapted their lingo. Team Graham, synergy and so many other stolen colloquialisms and plagiarized idioms and quips are tweeted over and over again and everyone in the ntcc uses these expressions in their status updates tweets. It's like an epidemic.

    Has anyone looked at the Kekel's social media accounts? What is up with them holding other peoples babies? There are several pictures of people who have recently had babies and the Kekel's are pictured together holding the babies in a photo-op that is supposed to make people think that they love children? You have to wonder what aspect of their lives that they are trying to cover up and why they find it necessary to create an image of themselves loving children. Is this a form of damage control or a campaign to remove Davis's legacy of bringing women to tears for hindering the God's work by having children? Perhaps they are doing this to cover up the many accounts of child abuse that have been shared by people on the blogs. So much of what they do is phony and I can assure you that they are not doing this because they actually love children. Kekel could not control himself when Bruce Smith was attending a service in Graham. He referred to children as filthy and evil and throwing hissy fits in the cookie isle of the grocery store. How dare we draw attention to Kekel's true nature.

    Maurice, you must be wrong. Surely Kekel's intentions were entirely innocent and he is just being a great scholar of the gospel by visiting the ruins of false gods. To assume that Kekel would use tithe payers money to travel across the globe just to make up for his lack of experience as an actual leader in the ntcc is preposterous. Actually I think you hit the nail on the head, Maurice and I would venture to say that just about everything Kekel does in public or on social media is a phony attempt to legitimize him as an actual qualified church figurehead.

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  28. Bryan Hill said:

    Happy new year! God is in control even if we do not understand it all. I have been out now for 21 years and never regretted one day. I hope you all have a wonderful new year whether your in or out of the NTCC. Part of being liberated from the NTCC mind-frame is being able to wish the best for all no matter their religious affiliation or status in life.

    DNA said:

    Well said. I know we spend a great deal of time contradicting the ntcc and trying to get people to think about what is going on. We know from experience that the ntcc is a cult and that what they practice does much more harm than good. But we also were in your shoes and believe it or not we understand what you are going through. I know that much of what we say can seem offensive to someone in the ntcc that thinks they are part of the last move of God on earth. We used to feel the same way.

    We know that many of you in the ntcc are there because you love God and you feel that you are in a place where God wants you to be, but for every one of you that are sincere, there are many that are in it for the wrong reasons. There was a time that many of us would not entertain one negative thought or remark about the ntcc and we took criticism of the ntcc as an insult to God and a personal attack on our own Christianity. We get it. We sometimes refer to ntcc members and ministers as brainwashed suckers, but we don't do it as a personal attack. We also will tell you that at one time we were brainwashed suckers too. We do what we do because we don't want you to have to endure another day of enabling the ntcc hypocrite leaders to get rich off of your sacrifice. We do what we do because one day you will become the target of their condescending preaching and you will end up devastated like so many others before you. The ntcc leadership does not treat you the way that Jesus treated people. Read your bibles and see how people like Kekel and Ashmore are so much like the Pharisees. When you look at their lust for money and their continual need to accumulate wealth you will see a huge difference between Jesus and their ministries that can't be ignored.

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  29. Happy New Years. I would say that I hope everyone has a prosperous New Year, but I know that if you are in the ntcc it will be another difficult year full of financial pitfalls and challenges unless you are part of the ntcc royalty. I know that Christ's greater riches are more important than your own wealth or financial status but when you feed the ntcc monsters through the practice of mandatory tithe or hell sacrifices, you are not laying your treasures up in heaven. When you are threatened with hell every time you put your ten percent into a tithing envelope you are being deprived of the blessings that come along with giving cheerfully as we are admonished in the New Testament which does not command us to pay tithe, neither does it condemn us for not paying tithe.

    It's not a sin to provide for your families and to use your money wisely. Many of the ntcc members are young servicemen and women who are just getting started in life. If you choose to pay your tithe and give in so many of the ntcc offerings, please do a little research about where your money is actually going. Prospering in God is not a by-product of giving large amounts of money to a church whose leaders are multi millionaires. We hope you have a prosperous year but to be honest with you, very few in the ntcc have ever prospered. People have found freedom after years of financial oppression and when they eventually leave the ntcc after decades of servitude they usually leave with little more than the clothes on their back. The ones who stay are no better off than the ones who leave. Not just financially, but spiritually also.

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  30. Well, it's been two weeks and nobody has answered the call, not that we are surprised. People are afraid of their borg leaders. They know that they can not get away with asking questions that have to do with accountability or transparency and that asking such questions would be looked at as a personal attack and would be dealt with harshly. We've asked numerous times for anyone to provide biblical proof that not paying tithe will send a New Testament Christian Church member to hell and so far nobody has shared one scripture that backs up this false doctrine. Could it be that the ntcc leadership are a bunch of money grubbing hypocrites? You might say or think, "Why should it matter to you"? To be honest with you, it doesn't really effect us one way or another if you pay your tithe for the rest of your life and never have anything as long as you live. Having paid tithe for 13+ years and giving in mandatory offerings and leaving the ntcc with nothing, we are just wanting folks to utilize some of their inactive brain cells by asking themselves a few questions. One really good question that you might want to ask yourself is, "Where is my money going"? Is that a fair question to ask? Many of you are taught and believe that tithe is not your money, but it's God's money. If that is the case, should you be a good steward of God's money and know where that money is going, or should you just give it to your pastor and trust that God is going to inspire him to spend it wisely? If that's the case than it's understandable why people in the ntcc follow so many man made rules without questioning anything. Nobody has any valid answers for why they ignore the poor and homeless while giving large amounts of money to their pastor who sends his portion of it to Graham where the lion share goes towards Kekel's insatiable lifestyle. They ignore their own Christian brethren who are struggling so that Tanya Kekel can afford to buy new tapestries for the windows in her Jacuzzi room. Do ntcc'rs have a right to know this or should they just think that God is blessing the Kekels and mind their own business? What would Jesus do? Those brain cells that you have chosen not to use can still be activated. Your brain is not like the government's budget where you have to use it or loose it. You can turn over a new leave in 2016 and say to yourself, "This year I'm going to think about the things that I do". This is a good year to be thoughtful about what you are doing with God's money and what Kekel is doing with God's money. You might think that 10% of your money belongs to the church and that 90% belongs to you, but it really all belongs to God. Everything you have belongs to God and if he didn't want you to be happy, he would take it all away from you and give it to someone else. You are leaving this world just like you came in, naked and with no earthly possessions. Does this mean that you have to give your money to someone wiser than you so they can determine the best way to spend it? The ntcc leaders are not very wise. If they were, they would treat you much better and keep you around longer. They would practice cheerful giving instead of threatening you with hell for not giving and then spending your money on themselves. So it all boils down to choice and common sense. Ask God for better reasoning skills so that you can make more responsible decisions in 2016. Ask God for courage to question those who claim to be your spiritual guides in life. Or just keep living according to the way they want you to live and supporting them with your tithes and offerings.

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  31. Wow, the Kekels use Social Media? A few years ago that would be called worldliness and preached against, but now under the new leadership, the new leader, his wife, and son are making it clear that Social Media is cool and ok. However, they also should use Social Media, to explain there ten percent tithe, or hell doctrine, or is that just another little dark secret that they don't want Social Media to know about. The kekels trampling on davis legacy makes it look easy, and it probably started before the maggots and bugs finish eating davis flesh. The ten percent tithe issue is probably the only part of davis legacy that they want get rid of, everything else is fair game.

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  32. We just watched a movie on the "devil vision" called war room. It was a Christian movie by the Kendrick Brothers about praying and the war room was basically a prayer closet. It was a good movie and had a message that would useful for ntcc'rs if they were not forbidden to watch the "devil vision". These kind of movies often seem too perfect in some ways because everything always works like the characters are living in a perfect world. The ntcc leadership would not want their congregations to watch this movie because it is about a woman getting a hold of God to save her marriage, while the ntcc promotes divorce on demand at an alarming rate. In the past when the ntcc powers that be see a marriage in crisis they move in swiftly to drive wedges and split up families. One or both individuals are encouraged to leave their spouse and very little prayer is ever said for the one that ends up leaving the ntcc. Everything revolves around church membership in the ntcc and nobody fights for their marriages. Nobody seems to want to fight the enemy that causes divorce, but they quickly assign blame to the Christians who are struggling not only to keep their marriage together but they also are struggling to survive and make ends meet on their meager salaries that are left after they have given their mandatory tithes and offerings. Couples in the ntcc often end up fighting each other rather than fighting the enemy together. The Pastors who are supposed to help them often take sides and make things worse by humiliating both man and wife publicly by airing out their dirty laundry before all of their friends and family. I think it would be a great idea for the ntcc to allow "devil visions" to be watched by their cult members to see how real Christians are portrayed on the screen. They might learn how to deal with many issues that face Christians in the real world if they were allowed to live their lives without so much interference. Even if the movies are not 100% realistic, they sure make much more sense than the ntcc way of dealing with problems. Blame yourself for everything and live with a guilty conscience for the rest of your life or do the best you can and leave the rest in God's hand. Don't let some false prophet brow beat you for every decision in life you make. All you can do is your best and when you've done your best and tried your hardest there will still be a great deal of doubters and fault finders that will try to make your life miserable. Just because the devil appears as an angel of light doesn't mean you have to entertain him. Tell those scoundrels to go find some other fool to mess with and don't give them the time of day!

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  33. Maurice said...
    Wow, the Kekels use Social Media? A few years ago that would be called worldliness and preached against, but now under the new leadership, the new leader, his wife, and son are making it clear that Social Media is cool and ok.

    DNA said:

    In April, 2010, Kekel published a blog post entitled "Facebook" where he blasted people for a number of things related to social media, that are now contradicted by Mike and Tanya's own social media posts and tweets. Kekel goes on to state:

    "So what about Ministers of the gospel, whose wives display themselves with their legs revealed, cleavage, their hair cut and faces painted? Why are they in NTCC? That’s not what we are, neither is it godly."

    Well, Kekel, let's examine this question. What about your wife? What about Tanya? We recently had someone come on our blog and make reference to how Tanya's clothing was so tight you could see the outline of her nipples through the fabric. Why does everyone in the ntcc listen to anything Kekel has to say? Mike and Tanya are big time hypocrites. What about Tanya's tight clothing and the board members wives wearing foundation? That's make up, according to Davis and according to the manufactures of the stuff. Why is Tanya in the ntcc you big hypocrite? Five years ago you called people that display pictures of women that resemble your own wife's ungodly appearance and now Mike, you are allowing her to strut around in public in a way that describes the lasciviousness you've been preaching about. How about it, you ntcc'rs out there? Do you have the guts to confront this hypocrite that is getting rich off of your tithe or are you going to enable these phony, two faced, double standard hucksters to continue manipulating you? Then the hypocrite Kekel posted this:

    "But some of you have your church members on your Facebook, along with X-ers and ministers, etc. So you are putting church members, members of OTHER Pastors and churches, at RISK on your Facebook, making them accessible to haters of the church. How is that ethically right? It’s time to clean up the mess."

    These are Kekels words, not ours, so don't get mad at us. If you look at Kekel's Social Media pages you will find a whole slew of X-ers following them. I looked at Kekel's list and I had to get rid of a snake or two off of my list, because I don't want to associate with those that follow Kekel. Kekel said:

    "Some of the resident evils of Facebook and MySpace are cases where for example teens, find themselves in contact with the wrong types of people and sometimes run off to meet them; then it’s a very bad situation."

    I'd be more worried about the perverts in the ntcc than I would about the perverts on Facebook. In the ntcc you might end up living with someone like Fontenot, Johnny Jordan or Ralph St. Clair. Or you might even end up with a Homosexual pastor. I had three homo pastors chasing my tail, so don't think it's impossible. Kekel said:

    "But these X-ers have been flying under the radar long enough, creeping among you, ostensibly as your friends, while sowing discord and driving wedges. It is high time for NTCC’ers to realize that these serpents hanging in nearby trees need to be grabbed by the tail and yanked out, and removed from the garden."

    So there you have it. Kekel who once plowed people for being on Facebook, once again shows that the rules don't apply to him. Maybe some of you ntcc'ers need to snatch Kekel by his tail and cast him out of your Facebook garden.



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  34. Yep! You're right on again dna.
    There was even a skit in graham where they reviled social media.
    They had 3 potraying Christians on the internet, chatting about how the sisters put ugly pictures of their babies that look like monkeys!
    I mean it was way way weird.
    By the way there's a review on the St. Louis church which says that this lady's ex is getting alone time with some sister who is married and the pastor is siding with the ex husband.
    Poor lady, probably she was thrown under the bus.

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  35. Anonymous said:

    "They had 3 potraying Christians on the internet, chatting about how the sisters put ugly pictures of their babies that look like monkeys!"

    DNA said:

    That's pretty hypocritical. Kekel has been making it a point to take pictures of him and Tanya with all the Newborns in the ntcc. I guess he's trying to present an image that makes people think he actually cares about children, but the Kekels look so phony in those pictures. It's nothing more than a photo Op to change their marred image. Gandy does the same thing with Service men. He has them dress up in uniform so he can get his picture taken with them so people will associate him as an advocate to the military men and their families, while he collects their tithe and wrongfully warns them that hell will be their home if they don't cough up their 10%. These ntcc hypocrites are nothing more than modern day Pharisees preying off of anyone who will contribute their money and labor to them. Has anyone seen Gandy lately? Go check him out on his Facebook page, (New Testament Christian Church of Jacksonville, NC), and then pull up an up to date picture of Rex Ryan and tell me if they don't look like twin brothers.

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  36. Anonymous said:

    "By the way there's a review on the St. Louis church which says that this lady's ex is getting alone time with some sister who is married and the pastor is siding with the ex husband. Poor lady, probably she was thrown under the bus."

    DNA said:

    It sure is ironic that Devonshire who is the Pastor in St. Louis once was on the ntcc meat market auction block as Davis had him stand up in one conference while he was married and implied that he was available after his wife had taken off because she wanted children and that was considered a sin worthy of abandonment. So while this man was still married to Christine, Davis had him stand up during a conference and told the ladies to look at this man as if he were available, BUT HE WAS STILL MARRIED! So to save her marriage, Christine came back to David and got pregnant. Their punishment was to get sent by ntcc to a third world country and have their offspring in the mission field so they could understand first hand how children hinder the work of Gawd. I'm sure Davis would have loved nothing more than to split up their marriage and match make Devonshire into an adulterous affair while shunning Devonshire's wife. Devonshire is a big hypocrite just like all the ntcc board members and long time loyalists. The longer they stay in and obey hypocrites like Kekel and Olson, the more they turn a blind eye to what's going on around them.

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  37. I liked Devonshire as a guy... Was really nice in my opinion. You could tell he worshipped Ashmore's circular preaching style. Throwing tons of info out at the beginning of the message and then tie it all up in a high octane message.

    Anyways, the Vikings are the NFC Champions as you all should know and will face the Hawks in Minnesota next week. It's a battle for all that is holy.

    Have a good new year.

    Mike

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  38. Hey Mike,

    Your Vikings are doing good. I hate that their reward for beating Green Bay at Lambeau filed was that they get to play the Seahawks, while the Cheeseheads are rewarded with the Redskins. I guess that's just the way things go in the NFL. At least they are playing at home and if they do beat the Seahawks, it would give them a lot of momentum in the weeks to come. Good luck to you Mike and your Vikings. I wouldn't mind seeing them in the Superbowl.

    I didn't know Devonshire very well and I don't have anything against him or many of the ntcc ministers that go with the flow. I do think that at some point they are going to be held accountable for turning a blind eye to what they are a part of. When it comes down to it, the ntcc is nothing more than a money making scam that uses sincere Christians as a front to cover up their illegal activities and their multi million dollar profits. They file as a non-profit organization but people like the Kekels have gotten filthy and disgustingly rich while the people who give are sacrificing many of their basic needs in life and neglecting their families so they can avoid hell by paying their tithes. According to Old Testament tithing doctrine God is supposed to open the windows of heaven and pour out a blessing that can not be contained. If Tithing were mandatory in the New Testament, and if this scripture applied to the ntcc tithe payers there would be a lot of wealthy Christians in the ntcc. I can't look at any of the ntcc ministers as innocent. Maybe they are sincere to a certain degree and they might have a good heart but they consider themselves to be ministers and they preach mandatory tithe or hell to their congregations. If you are called to preach the truth and you preach lies from behind the pulpit, can you claim ignorance? If a preacher tells a church member that they will be overweight when the rapture takes place and that they be left behind for not paying tithe, that preacher is lying to his church members.

    I'm not sure how much things have changed in the ntcc, but I had 13 pastors and attended dozens of conferences and fellowship meetings, heard hundreds of preachers in the ntcc and they all believed the same lies. They all warned people that hell would be their home if they didn't pay tithe. I know people think that I have a problem with giving to the church. I really don't. Paying tithe doesn't even bother me. What bothers me is lying about what the bible says so that people will pay tithe out of guilt, not knowing where their money is going and being threatened with hell for not paying tithe. This is false doctrine. There is not one place in the bible that tells Gentiles or New Testament Christians of any sort to pay tithe. There definitely are not any scriptural warnings that condemn folks for not paying tithe or place them in hell for not giving. This doctrine serves only the ones at the top and reveals the true motives of the Borg. If you question this doctrine you are rebellious and you will not be welcome in the ntcc.

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  39. A good way to tell if you are in a cult is by asking questions and only accepting straight answers to those question. Here is a good example:

    Church Member: Rev. Moneygrubber, Can you show me where the New Testament commands me to pay tithe?

    NTCC Preacher: Well Brother Givesalot, the fact that you are asking this question leads me to believe that are rebelling against God's word.

    Church Member: John tells us to "try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world". Your spirit seems to be lashing out at me right now because of your love for money.

    NTCC Preacher: If you were of God you would receive my teachings because I am called of God and God has placed me in the church to exhort and rebuke. If you were a real Christian you would not question the bible.

    Church member: I'm not questioning the bible. Jesus warns us "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves." Also Paul said: "Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." How can I accept you as a true minister of God when you are adding to the word of God and taking away from the word of God?

    NTCC Preacher: You gave 100 % of your money to the devil while you were a sinner, why would you have a problem giving 10% to God?

    Church member: I don't have a problem giving my money to God, but if I give it to you, where will my money be going? Can you show me where my money goes if I pay it to you?

    NTCC Preacher: It's none of your business how God directs us to spend your money.

    Church member: What do you have to hide? If my money is being spent in a Godly manner why would you be so secretive about where my money is going? If you can't give me straight answers to simple questions and you can't support your money grubbing ways by using scriptures, than I'm not giving you another dime, and neither should anyone else!

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  40. Church member: So you can't give me a straight answer to any of my questions? Where does the New Testament tell me that I have to pay tithe to be a Christian? Where is my money going? These are simple questions, answer them straight up.

    NTCC Preacher: Paul said, "Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour".

    Church member: Maybe if they rule well, they deserve a double honor but what does that have to do with sending a person to hell for not paying ten percent of their wages to you? Nobody is muzzling oxen here, in fact you are living in a Servicemen's home free of charge haven't worked a day since you've been here, you are well fed and drive a nice car while the people supporting you are struggling to feed their families and put gas in their oil puking junkers. The sad thing is that your outreach is only to people who can pay tithe and continue to support you. There are people who are poor and homeless that cannot pay tithe because they have no money, period. Why do you ntcc preachers only reach out to those with tithe paying abilities?

    NTCC preacher: You can't build a church with homeless people. Don't knock on doors of people if you see blankets being used for curtains.

    Church member: So where, Oh were, is all the money going? If you don't care about poor people and have no outreach to less fortunate folks? Where is all the money going you snake?

    You have to get real with these hypocrites. Jesus didn't allow the ntcc types to get away with weasel words and neither should you. He called them snakes and vipers. He called them hypocrites and compared them to those who murdered the prophets. The ntcc is a cult and we are trying to help you see them for what they are, but you have to ask the hard questions and think for yourselves.

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  41. BRAVO! BRAVO! STANDING OVATION FROM ME! Don your conversation example reveals how they really have no worthy answers. I hate how people are so wimpish when it comes to standing up to these *$#holes. They all hide behind selective scriptures to support their lifestyle and greed (minus the few good ones). I hope to see more dialogue like that. It represents the conversation that should be happening if someone would just grow a pair and quit hiding behind churchanity. Bam! Yea, I said that and feel the Holy Ghost too.

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  42. I should also say I didn't know Devshire well but I thought well of him when he was doing revivals. Good preacher.

    Anyhow, I'm sure he's in neck deep at this point with the Washington crew. That's too bad.

    Found the following comment on "The Blaze" website following an article about how two ministers needed a private jet... Just had to wonder who this was...

    Mike

    Author "Malthus"

    We had a preacher when i was a kid that got church permission to get a new car for hospital visits etc. the preacher told the story from the pulpit where he went to buy the chevy biscayne stripped down car, but there was a beatiful new cadillac right there. G*d told him to get the cadillac because G*d didnt want his servant going second class. Thgats right, thats what he said. Somehow he ended up G*d told him to invest in apartment buldings and land and he retired to arizona.
    malthus

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  43. "If a preacher tells a church member that they will be overweight when the rapture takes place and that they be left behind for not paying tithe, that preacher is lying to his church members."

    Not necessarily. Lying involves the intent to deceive. Most NTCC preachers believe the tithe scam themselves, so they would actually be lying if they told people it wasn't necessary. I believed it for years, and even though I was always uncomfortable doing it, I felt conscience bound to pass on the "truth." Lying is an intentional act, and the mere passing on of false information doesn't qualify if the intermediary is convinced of its verity.

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  44. DNA said:

    I understand where you are coming from Vic, but I have to disagree with you. Regardless of the intent a lie is a lie and a person who regurgitates tithe doctrine is preaching lies from the pulpit. Most preachers in the ntcc have read the bible from cover to cover several times. I know that they have convinced themselves that tithe doctrine is truth, but that doesn't change the fact that it is a lie. Preachers in the ntcc believe everything that Davis told them and now they blindly follow Kekel. Davis taught that children hinder the work of the Lord and dozens of preachers went out and got vasectomies. They were lied to by Davis and they believed those lies. Davis told Blumenthal and Blumenthal told others and they believed the lie and got snipped. We all lied to ourselves and lived by ntcc doctrine. We shared these lies with everyone else that would listen and even though we thought we were doing God's will, we were lying to ourselves and anyone else that would listen to us. We heard Davis and other board members and pastors parroting him about being overweight for the rapture. Just as Eve was beguiled by the serpent, we were all beguiled by the ntcc leadership. Eve was the intermediary that passed on the fruit to Adam, convincing him to disobey God, but they all had to answer for eating that fruit. Adam said it was the woman's fault. "The woman thou gavest me to be with, she gave me the fruit and I did eat. The woman blamed the serpent but they all had to answer for the lie that the serpent told.

    Davis, Olson, Ashmore and Kekel all probably believe the tithe or hell doctrine that they preach but that doesn't make it any less of a lie. And if they did actually believe it they know it's not true now, because it's been exposed over and over again. I will say that many of the preachers in the ntcc didn't get rich off of tithe and many didn't hammer it as much as others. You said that you were uncomfortable doing it and I'm sure that many others are also. I was never a preacher but if I was, I would have preached the same lies, because I believed in the tithe doctrine and never missed a payment.

    Prov. 30:6 "Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."

    This is why the ntcc is so evil. They add to God's word and they cause people to take part in their hypocrisy and most everyone goes along with it all, asking no questions.

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  45. And these guys think that cuz they worked a job for a few years and claim to of "built a church" (except kekel) that they can live off your money the rest of their lives. I would be willing to bet they have houses and land all over the country not to mention retirement accounts where there money is invested in stocks and bonds. What a huge sense of entitlement we have here, my my my. And not one real man in the NTCC who has the gonads to ask where all that money is going? wow! It's only a matter of time until the light comes on and you will leave that organization but then you will be out thousand and thousands and thousands of dollars. You may have to take a minimum paying job cuz you have no real education and turn 50 with no money in the bank and living in a cheap rented apartment and taking the bus to find work in town. Meanwhile top dog over there at NTCC is checking on his stocks and bonds as your money is making him richer and richer. Those real estate investments pay nice dividends thanks to you. I wonder how much of your money they lost in 2008 when the stocks took a dive. The whole doctrine of tithe is believable only if you willingly choose to not do a honest study of the Bible and if your paying out of fear or for the approval of man, then you are in bad shape friend, in fact you are weak. Now don't fret, I have been there as all have, the real work of God in your life is when you recognize this religious farce and you step out in faith and not allow this religion to run your life. NTCC is a crutch when Jesus ought to be your crutch. Don't worry about what these $$$holes think about you, they are only advocates of their business called the NTCC, once you become your own man and make a stand they will pull away from you and treat you like dirt almost overnight and call you a devil who is not saved, meanwhile your drawing closer to God and finally growing as your faced with the task of finally growing up and off their bottle and walking with God. But no, really go ahead and pull those greenbacks out this Friday and pay the man so you can feel good about yourself til next payday. For God sakes someone please break the ice and go tell these crooks your not funding their brand of sectarianism while they get to hide out in the woods their in Graham and purchase and indulge on their favorite coffees and cereal while you fight the traffic to get to work. Be a man, get your wife and bible and get to your knees and pray and ask God to take the idolatry of NTCC away from your hearts so the HE can be high and lifted up. He is HOLINESS not your smug church standards of sectarianism. HE is to be followed and obeyed not your high maintenance preacher. HE is to be prioritized even if it means prioritizing the likes of most of these NTCC so called leaders right out of your life. Trust me, I'm telling you that within 5 minutes of you leaving they have wiped you off their conscience and out of their prideful hearts. I can hear it now, "they left God because they wanted sin, well I'm not chasing them and I will have a preacher behind their pulpit before it gets cold". Some of you need to quit soothing your religious conscience and ask the hard questions instead of being a wimp and then boo hoo to your wife and family about the NTCC. I hope you don't sleep tonight, I hope your wife tells you to quit whining and make a decision, I hope you wake up starting right now and realize you have religion, your serving man, your part of the problem and until you rise up against those Lords of Gods heritage and say enough is enough - YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO CRY ON YOUR WIFES SHOULDER AND THEN TURN RIGHT AROUND A POLISH YOUR PASTORS SHOES WHILE HE IS PLANNING HIS NEXT VACATION ON HIS NEW IPAD AIR 2 TABLET!!!!! I got some land I want to sell you, WAKE UP!

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  46. I disagree with both. I don't necessarily consider it a lie (committed by the person who is telling it) but I do consider it to be someone who is "deceived". I don't think the person who believes what he says is lying, but I do believe they are passing on a lie due specifically to their own state of deception. So what I'm saying is that both Vic and Don are correct. Christ warned to beware of false prophets. A false prophet can be someone, (like the preachers in the NTCC) who sincerely believe that what they are saying is correct but in all actuality they are completely wrong and mistaken. And when they are in fact wrong; they still qualify as someone who can be categorized as a false prophet regardless of their intentions and beliefs.

    So the end result is that while they may not technically be telling a "lie", they are clearly perpetuating a lie and deceiving people in the process. And they are often doing so by willfully electing to ignore their own conscience and the facts that have been brought to their attention. Just my view.

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  47. That's a pretty good assessment. My whole problem with the tithe doctrine is that preachers who have been in the organization for decades are preaching tithe or hell. How long can they play the ignorant card? We were talking about Devenshire who has been in for well over 2 decades, probably closer to 30 years. Do we hold the same opinion when we are talking about terrorists who strap bombs to their bodies and blow up innocent women and children in the name of their false prophet? They are doing what they do out of religious fervor and they are manipulated by others to believe that they are doing it for a worthy cause. They didn't perpetuate the lies but they carried out the will of their so called spiritual leaders without questioning them or coming to their senses and doing the right thing. I know that this comparison is extreme but look at the damage that the ntcc has caused in peoples lives. All of us were part of the deception and many propagated not only the tithe deception but many other hurtful doctrines that have turned people away from God and caused them to not want to have anything to do with God.

    In my original statement I said this: "If a preacher tells a church member that they will be overweight when the rapture takes place and that they be left behind for not paying tithe, that preacher is lying to his church members."

    I don't honestly know how else to look at this. They definitely are not being truthful about what the bible actually says. At what point does the sincere pastor stop over-riding that feeling of discomfort and study the bible for himself? We blame the leadership of the ntcc but who is the leadership? Is Devonshire a leader of the ntcc? He is pastor of the most expensive church outside of Graham. They love to quote the scripture: "Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they watch for your souls, as they that must give account,...". They use this scripture over and over to justify all of the doctrines that they preach so we know that they believe they have to give an account for the things they say. Wouldn't you think that a man that is being led by the Spirit of God would study the bible and doctrines that he preaches before condemning others to hell? Tithe is just a very small part of the false doctrines that are preached in the ntcc. How many current ntcc ministers have read this blog and all the other blogs that have exposed tithe doctrine for what it is and have admitted to preaching false tithe doctrine? None. Zero. Nada. They all try to justify it and not one has come on the blogs and apologized or admitted that they were wrong. Are they being truthful with their congregations?

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  48. I'm sorry but, I think that there is more cause to focus on the ones that are involved in spreading the lies than the those who are exposing them for spreading the lies. I said they are lying to their church members. Is that a worse crime than what they are doing? Maybe one of these 'sincere pastors' will read this blog and research tithe in the bible and stop lying to their congregations. It hasn't happened yet, but who knows, maybe it can happen. There have been people who have got out of the ntcc and realized after the fact that they were wrong for preaching about tithe, but I would like to see someone in the ntcc stand up and confront the leaders who propagate this lie. That is what this whole blog post is about. We can't even get one 'sincere ntcc minister' to come on this blog and answer a few simple questions about tithe. I doubt if they are going to sincerely read and study tithe for themselves and change their thinking. That's why we warn people. They sure aren't doing it. If they were telling the truth than we would have no reason to blog.

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  49. The evolution of this church is staggering. I know Tithe might be focused on now but I think that too will change and here's why. The churches that are truly growing in this country have no focus on it yet they rake in millions. If Kekel uses their formula he might actually attain greater wealth.

    I just wish I could be a fly on the wall every time the board changes their minds on holiness doctrines of the past.

    Would be interesting for sure

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  50. For some forty years, some of ntcc Minsters, Pastors, Teachers etc. etc. have been preaching a perverted gospel, those same ntcc Minsters, Pastors and Teachers have probably read the bible from cover to cover a lot of times. There is no where in the bible that teaches, that, just because they are or were afraid to stand up to Davis, Olson, Ashmore, and kekel that they should get some sort of a pass for not standing up to ntcc leaders. They are responsible, for what they preach and teach and some are even accomplice. Those middle leaders are a big part as to why ntcc have been able to get away with preaching and teaching a perverted gospel for so many years, they could have stood up for Gods word, or left, instead they choose not to do anything in support of the truth.

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  51. Anonymous said:

    "I know Tithe might be focused on now but I think that too will change and here's why."

    DNA said:

    You might be right. I think they will milk it for all it's worth and when it starts hurting their numbers they might steer away from making it an ultimatum. I don't think they'll ever denounce tithe doctrine. If someone in the ntcc were called upon to preach at a conference and they were to expose the tithe doctrine as being false by bringing up many of the points that we bring up, it would force the borgites to use their brains and think for themselves. I'm sure that person would be kicked to the curb but seeds would be planted and a lot of people might start asking questions.

    Tithe has always been preached in the ntcc as an ultimatum with consequences of hell or missing the rapture. Basically, the importance of tithe paying in the ntcc has been emphasized much more than any Christian value that you would find in the bible. They teach tithe much more than they teach showing love and kindness to their fellow human beings. They also spend a lot of time refuting other church beliefs. Very little time is spent in the ntcc doing the kinds of things that Jesus actually did. If a person were to denounce tithe, they would be gone in a flash. Their reputation would be smeared and they would be made a public example of immediately, to create fear among the tithe paying masses that remained. I do believe that if one person from within the organization would stand against them publicly, others would follow and they would be openly exposed for the fraudulent money grubbers that they are. Kekel has finally learned that when he goes public against people who disagree with him, it draws more attention to the obvious double standards that he created within the ntcc. Davis was much smarter than Kekel. He knew if he stuck to his guns people would follow him to the gates of hell stumbling into the fire without questioning him or listening to reason. Kekel changes like a chameleon and concocts lies to smooth things over. He has mastered the art of deception as well as any politician that ever ran for a public office. If you look at the entire ministry of the ntcc, it revolves around the Kekels obtaining more wealth. People blindly continue to give and they shut off their brains and harden their hearts. They have ears but they do not hear. They have eyes, but they do not see. A little leaven, leaveneth the whole lump and the ntcc is one big lump of self centered and misguided souls who are being used and played. Such were some of us, but at some point we had to wake up and escape from this bunch.

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  52. While I agree with Maurice on most of his points here is why I give some mercy to those middle preachers/leaders.

    1st they're brainwashed into thinking the top leaders were the mouth piece of the lord god.

    2nd they're trained to be flat out yes men.

    3rd It's all they know and they've invested their life into it. How can they look back at what could have been the best years of their lives and question everything they've done.

    I sort of look at it as a card trick. Card tricks are silly fun for the most part but in order to get someone to buy into the trick you can't give away any of your tells or the whole thing crumbles. If these preachers were to open their eyes and see all the double card lifts going on then the real estate scam, the tithe scam, the Grant scam, the vasectomy scam... It would all crumble and the trick would be over.

    Mike

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  53. Okay I haven't spoken in a while but this money stuff really gets to me. Now when I was growing up I would ask questions always got me into trouble yet I couldn't stop curiosity. One thing that puzzled me is why did God want ten percent plus more but the amount of the plus more was a mystery amount that was still required for you to be right with God. Why have Sunday morning offering and then Sunday night offering? I mean most times the same handful of people in the Sunday morning service were there in the Sunday night service so why did there have to be two offerings in one day. Why didn't God want people to know the plus amount God only told the pastor never the church members why? Why couldn't God tell people at the beginning of the month how much he wanted from them that month? I had many questions around money while growing up.

    This all comes from someone that had no other knowledge or understanding that not everyone did this with their money in the world but I still questioned it. It makes wonder how someone that had a life before NTCC and have all this information on here can still not question giving all this money or even preach it like it is the truth. There are many that had a great life before NTCC without paying all this money to some church. So why in the world do you think it must change upon becoming involved with NTCC or any other organization.

    So the girl that was label mentally retarded was questioning it so how can not all of you that claim to believe it as truth not be puzzled by this doctrine? If I were you preachers that preach such falsehoods; I would be more afraid to stand before God that a man. When you stand for truth God is on your side. "The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?" Psalm 118:6

    What do you have to loose if you stand up and ask questions? They might throw you out and you will loose the right to be poor and you will gain more money in your pocket. Sounds to me like a good risk.

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  54. Well anonymous, rather ntcc mid-level leaders Pastors, Teachers, Ministers, etc. etc. falls within the three points that you mention, or not, they are still responsible for what they preach and teach to there individual flocks. If they were called/anointed to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, as some will claim, then why would they preach davis perverted doctrine? Jesus, is far larger than anyone inside or outside of ntcc so why are they so fearful of davis, olson, ashmore, or kekel? The ntcc pastors are good at pointing out the wrong in other church organizations, so, they know whats true. However, they choose to remain and preach and teach davis perverted doctrine, shame on them for not having a spine, and standing up for God and right, and agaist the leaders of ntcc.

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  55. Maurice,

    I guess I look at it like this... We were all reading the bible and falling for the same garbage these preachers were teaching. Were they anointed? Doubt it, as I doubt anyone really is. Preachers in America are money grubbers anyways.

    All I know is that every guy thought he was supposed to go to bible college because he'd been brainwashed into thinking he needed to be apart of the last great move. Why question it when you believe it? I feel for some of these guys who are trying to be genuine and now having a crisis of faith (if they are anyways).

    I tend to be much more skeptical of religion in general. I don't know what's really correct at this point. I do empathize with people who've wasted years of their lives and can't bring themselves to disavow it.

    Mike

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  56. I lot of good points are being made and it seems like even though there are opposing views as to the motives and sincerity of the ntcc ministers, at least we are civilized enough not to attack each other. In the ntcc things were pretty cut and dry. I've had my share of ntcc ministers that were a lot like Maurice's description. I also had a few that I thought were pretty cool. The ones that I thought were alright were still preaching the Davis doctrine and they were were often non-forgiving in the sense that good people were not received as brethren if they didn't pay tithe or get with the program. I don't think calling ntcc ministers out for what they are doing is displaying a lack of compassion for them, nor do I think that they should get a free pass because they were passionate about what they believed. I believe that we were all deceived and that we all were living a lie to some degree. I thought I was saved, but being honest about things, there were times that I treated people wrong and I was not a shining example of what a Christian should really be. I think that a lot of good points are being made in this thread and I also think that for the most part we all agree that the ntcc is a cult and that the leadership brainwashes it's ministers. Mike and Maurice, you guys have been great. You've disagreed but neither of you have made it personal. I appreciate that. Lately I've not been commenting as frequently as I have in the past. Some people probably say, "Praise God". But we have been getting really good comments from a lot of people. Bryan, Julie, Freebird and several anonymous comments have been really good on this thread. This blog is what you all make of it and it's been getting pretty interesting lately. We appreciate all who contribute. Thank you.

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  57. That being said, the purpose of this blog is to help people recover from their cult experience and to reach out to those who are looking for a way out. Over the past five years we have been very passionate about helping victims who have survived the ntcc experience. Many have reported acts of abuse committed by many different pastors. The ntcc has a high number of deviant individuals who have abused their office. Now if an ntcc'r comes on here and tries to disagree with folks who comment regularly on this blog, we will often allow them to have their say but if they start talking down to folks and preaching to others, they will hear from not just us, but many others. If you are supposed to be an Xer and you want to tear people down for disagreeing with you, your comments might not get published because it is too much of a distraction. We have been very patient with certain individuals and even though they have attacked and mocked us openly on our own blog and on other blogs, we have allowed them to have their say. But I learned that there comes a point when combative attitudes and personal attacks become a distraction. I know that nobody wants to be jacked up as if they were still in the ntcc. When someone gets abusive it's easy to fire back at them and it's also the nature of folks to stick up for themselves. It redirects the flow of the topic at hand and often becomes self serving. I've fallen into that trap before, but I'm trying not to be provoked into back and forth arguments that go nowhere. If someone has a strong opinion they are welcome to share it on this blog and others can agree or disagree but when personal attacks are made over and over, it gets old fast. This is our blog and we reserve the right not to be jacked up, talked down to or preached at. Some share our views and when you rebuke us, you are rebuking them too. So comment if you like but please keep it objective and remember most of us are on the same side. It seems like every time the topic gets interesting and people start participating, that's when people want to get personal and drag others through the mud. I'm not singling anyone out here because there are several comments from different people that we haven't published recently. We get some insulting comments from time to time that are directed to people who have shared their testimonies on this blog. This is not a platform for tearing down people who have poured their hearts out and shared what they went through in the ntcc. This is an anti-ntcc blog. We feel that the ntcc is an abusive organization that has profited off of the suffering of it's members and our commitment is to expose them, not to tear each other down. The ntcc would love for us to strive against one another and provoke us to an outward display of hate and division. We think that a united approach is much more effective and hope that in spite of what we went through in the ntcc, we can at least present our opinions in a civilized way.

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  58. I understand that ntcc ministers have to preach tithe if they want to keep their license and remain in good standing with Olson and Kekel. It would be ntcc suicide to do otherwise. Everything in the ntcc hinges upon money and numbers. I fully believed that tithe was a requirement that came straight from God and back in the day, I would have fallen in lock step with all of the ntcc ministers who preach tithe or hell. I totally bought in to it. This scripture comes to mind: "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things." 1 Cor 13

    I think that many of our views are the same about this but we also might disagree about the sincerity of those who continue to believe and preach tithe. We all know that the lies originated from the very top. RWD founded the ntcc and the "pay your tithe or go to hell lie" was probably the most preached doctrine in the ntcc from it's inception and it's still being preached. Please don't mistake what I'm saying. I believe, and this is my opinion, that you can only claim ignorance for so long. I think many became disingenuous over a period of time by pretending to know less about tithe than they actually knew. We lied to ourselves and then we lied to others and that's not surprising because it is the culture that exists within the ntcc. This is just my opinion and I understand both sides. I was never a pastor, but I preached a lot and even preached about tithe several times. I believed I was being honest and truthful, but it was a lie none the less. I was spreading lies just like many of the ntcc pastors do on a regular basis. Saying this is not an accusation that the ntcc ministers are purposely lying to people about tithe. I think they are brainwashed and negligent in many ways, and quite a few are purposely deceptive. Again this is my opinion.

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  59. Today begins the NFL playoff Season. Today and tomorrow I will be immersed in wild card weekend, which involves gorking in front of the "devil vision". My team is not playing this week because they earned a first round bye and home field advantage throughout the playoffs, which they received through a whole bunch of lucky events and circumstances that worked in their favor. I hope that all NFL fans will take the time to enjoy this football weekend and good luck to your teams. I would love to see the Vikings demolish the Seahawks but that is a very tall order and I would not bet the deed to my house on it. The Broncos will end up playing the lowest remaining seed next week and the Patriots will play the highest seed. Peyton Manning will be leading the Broncos towards another Superbowl bid. As uncertain as their situation seems to be, I couldn't ask for a better situation. Hope everyone enjoys their weekend.

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  60. Growing up I had a Step Father that was verbally abusive all the time. You see, he had a drinking problem and was drunk a lot, or hung over, and he would express his true feelings towards me whenever he was drinking. When you are a young teen and impressionable and the only adult role model in your life calls you stupid and trifling all the time, it's a hard thing to deal with. I used to get in a lot of trouble when I was in Junior High School and High School, because I would act out trying to get the attention from people at school that I should have got at home. Try as I may, I could never get my Step Father's approval and no matter what I did, he would treat me like a stupid step child. There were times when he would make excuses and admit that he was wrong, but I lost all respect for him over a period of time because his true feelings toward me would come to the surface too often. There were times that he would change his tune when he wanted to patch things up with my mother and he would treat me good for a short season, but I knew that he was disingenuous because he already told me how he really felt about me too many times and his actions always spoke louder than his words.

    About 10 or 15 years ago, he stopped drinking and his personality changed for the better and now we get along okay, but we are not that close. I have forgiven him but I keep my distance. We don't agree on politics and that seems to be the only thing he likes to talk about these days. Politics divides people and I've learned to avoid the topic with people because it often brings out the worst in people.

    I'm sharing this because it relates a lot to many of the experiences I had in the ntcc. Our status in the borg seemed to hinge on our willingness to blindly give our money, time, obedience and loyalty to them. There were times when you could do everything right and still be wrong. There were times when you could expend every ounce of energy towards trying to gain their acceptance but no matter what you did, it never seemed to be enough. I was duped into thinking that if I could obtain favor in the eyes of the mid level pastors, that I would have the favor of God, but they would always say just enough to keep stringing you along. They collected my tithe and used me for what I was worth as long as I played their games. I have a hard time believing in their sincerity because they always would reboot to towing the company line and this was much more important than anything else. Everything they did was centered around pleasing the board members and obtaining their approval. It was much more important to these men pleasers to obtain approval from people like Kekel and Davis than it was to have favor among the peons in the Servicemen's home. While there might be some honor among thieves, a lot was stolen from church members that can never be returned. It's hard for me to make excuses for ntcc pastors at any level because I was around dozens of them for 13 years and seen how they lived and treated people. Some were half way decent and treated people with a certain degree of respect but everything revolved around money and numbers for every one of them. I'm happy for each one that gets out of the borg and I think that their lives begin once they are released from the bondage of the ntcc.

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  61. DnA said:It's hard for me to make excuses for ntcc pastors at any level because I was around dozens of them for 13 years and seen how they lived and treated people.
    It's not much different as a minister to minister relations . It probably was much more eye opening than anything to see how ministers were really like because When ministers were around other ministers they let their true self come to the surface.
    I was around some people that were petty and plain jerks specially the ones in graham.
    When the overseers were around they would be all sweet and nice but when you were alone with them it was horrible. Talking down to you or giving stupid orders to see how you would react and have an excuse to rat you to mk or olson or rw. If they felt threatened by you it was the worst because they didn't want anybody to come and steal the show from them so they would try everything in their power to discredit you with the higher uppers.
    It was a big soap opera and probably still is. Talk about "alter egos" going to church!

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  62. It is a wonderful thing when your free to be yourself as Jesus lives through you as opposed to the NTCC living thru you. This is truly something one must experience before the full richness of it can be appreciated. No regrets at all on my end for leaving, Jesus is nearer and dearer then ever and I don't need to be indebted to an organization for it either. They may like to tell themselves they have a monopoly on Gods love and favor but, eh humm, sorry trigger that's a NO GO.
    I know they think they are special with some healthy dose of self righteousness and/or entitlement that is off the chart but got news Charlie Brown, they pit their pants on and stand while urinating just like anyone else. God has to have mercy on them and grace as well just like anyone else. The ground Is level and they have nothing to look down their noses about. That goes for any of them; Mr's Johnson, Olson, Jones and kekel as well, even all you other no namers. Ah did that hurt your pride? Good, that was intentional.

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  63. I was infected with the ntcc virus back in the early eighties, however, it did not take long after leaving ntcc, for the infection to began to wear off. God delivered me from it all. I have been walking in the liberty where with Christ has made me free. If I want to eat chicken, pizza, are anything with my hands fine go ahead its not a sin or a crime,(is what I tell myself.)As, Bryan hill said it is a wonderful thing to be yourself as the Master lives through us.

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  64. Anonymous said:

    "I was around some people that were petty and plain jerks specially the ones in graham.
    When the overseers were around they would be all sweet and nice but when you were alone with them it was horrible. Talking down to you or giving stupid orders to see how you would react and have an excuse to rat you to mk or olson or rw."

    DNA said:

    I know that there are some pretty good people that were ministers in the ntcc but as with all things ntcc the ntcc leadership did their best to corrupt anything good. I have found that the majority of the ntcc ministers current and former seem to like to talk down to people as if their opinions didn't matter much. I am not saying that this applies to everyone, because it doesn't. If you just look at the blogs and FACTnet, there is a lot of evidence that supports this theory. People get out of the ntcc and they might get on the blogs and share what they went through and many of us can relate to what they have to say. Then when they are done sharing and have garnered their sympathy, they will proceed to dump all over others who have their own horror stories to share. They usually say things like, "You are just bitter" and "You need to get over it". Many X-ministers will find fault with what you say and disagree because they never got over the narcissistic nature of what has been instilled in them from the master manipulators of the ntcc. I'm sure that there will be some that take offense to this as if I'm lobbing bombs specifically to them, but that's okay. There are many ntcc ministers and X-ministers that used to come on the blogs and bloviate about how messed up the ntcc was and now they have gone whoring after Ashmore as if he was never part of the problem. The ntcc messes people up really bad and that's why there have been so many blogs and people who have something to say about what they went through.

    I'm not exempting myself from this equation by any means. I will tell you that my personality and Christian walk was severely altered by the ntcc pastors and board members alike. I know there are people who think that most of the former ministers and members were all pretty cool people that were manipulated and that they did the best they could with the circumstances that they were expected to live by. I was never involved in the ntcc brain washing academy but I observed the same narcissism that originated from Davis, Kekel and other board members, as it rolled down hill and trickled into the congregations and servicemen's homes. Many of my mid level pastors were clones of Davis and that same attitude still exists today even though they are no longer around. You are not allowed to have an opinion unless it's approved of by them and it's okay for them to rebuke you even if they are the ones that have the problem. You however are not supposed to challenge them because they are the authorities on what is right and what is wrong. Don't get me wrong, there are some folks that are not like this, but the vast majority of X ntcc ministers that have been on the blogs still carry that chip on their shoulders.

    Usually we get the largest amount of grief and never ending criticism from former tenured ntcc ministers and teachers who can't just agree to disagree but they have to make sure you know that they are superior to you and they do this in a condescending manner. You can take the person out of the ntcc, but it's hard to get the ntcc out of the person. Our crime has been that we believed the abuse victims and we supported them. This caused a lot of animosity that is difficult to understand or comprehend. Why would someone defend a child molesting pervert and tear down the victims of such abuse? That is the culture in the ntcc, but it shouldn't be the culture among survivors of this cult, but this is just my opinion which I feel I should be allowed to have.

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  65. Bryan said:

    "The ground Is level and they have nothing to look down their noses about. That goes for any of them; Mr's Johnson, Olson, Jones and kekel as well, even all you other no namers. Ah did that hurt your pride? Good, that was intentional."

    DNA said:

    Well said, Bryan. Jesus came down from heaven and became one of us, and died for us so that we could one day live with Him. Jesus wanted us to be servants of all and He led by example. The only examples being exhibited by the ntcc is how to rule and Lord over people and their money. If they spent the same amount of time living what they preach instead of ramming tithe doctrine down peoples throats, there would be a real revival. In the ntcc a revival consists of a money grubbing hypocrite and his wife showing up at your church in a Recreational Vehicle bought and paid for by tithe payers to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dollars or even a million dollars which is what Davis paid for his and Tieman later drove as a hand me down Rolling Cathedral on wheels, bringing mandatory church services and blasting sessions while taking up offerings leaving people scratching their heads wondering why this so called revival left them spiritually and financially bankrupt. Meanwhile the so called evangelist is driving to his next group of brain washed suckers with a big grin on his face and a stack of green in his wallet. The next Church will be waiting with an envelope full of money that was sacrificed by hard working peons who have to steal from their families and/or scrape by on less money than most people put aside weekly in savings or 401ks and still be expected to give in offerings every night to add to the stack of green that was already collected before he got there. The money grubbing ntcc hypocrite that calls himself an evangelist will refer to this mandatory offering as a "double honor" as his shifting eyes betray his smile and the cycle is repeated over and over again. They will vacation and visit family and freinds while going on shopping sprees in between "revivals" while you are left to figure out how you are going to pay your next electric bill before they shut it off.

    These people are not above you and the good news is that you don't have to allow them to rob you blind? Will a man rob God? They are robbing the people of God and in doing so they are the ones that are robbing God. But these are not servants of all. They are self serving religious hypocrites and they are no better than you. They demand your respect but they have done nothing to earn it. You can be a Christian without them. Without their influence you can do so much more for God. There are people in the world that we all can minister to, but in the ntcc, you will be greatly hindered from doing the things that God puts in your heart. You will be directed to do things their way and your own feelings and beliefs will not be respected. If you pray and ask God to speak to your heart about a ministry and it does not fall lock step in with what Olson and Kekel have planned for you, then you will not be allowed to follow the ministry that God puts in your heart. Not only that, but you will be scoffed at and ridiculed for following your own desires if you do not happily accept your ntcc sentence.

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  66. Maurice said...
    I was infected with the ntcc virus back in the early eighties, however, it did not take long after leaving ntcc, for the infection to began to wear off. God delivered me from it all. I have been walking in the liberty where with Christ has made me free. If I want to eat chicken, pizza, are anything with my hands fine go ahead its not a sin or a crime,(is what I tell myself.)As, Bryan hill said it is a wonderful thing to be yourself as the Master lives through us.

    DNA said:

    You are right in calling it a virus, because it infects and spreads just like a nasty virus or disease. It turns good people into toxic people. There is a cure, however and I believe you have found it. I really believe that God has the cure and even though they have done their best to convince people that God does not exist, they definitely do not have a monopoly on God and I would even say that they don't even have God at all. I'm sure that as they use the gospel to obtain riches that people will sincerely give their hearts to the Lord, but as time passes them by they will be robbed of their joy and their freedoms a little bit at a time. Each person gets infected as false doctrines are preached. They will make choices to either stick around and buy into the scam or they will eventually fight back or run for their lives. The cure to this virus is first and foremost to depart from these money grubbers. When you get your freedom back you can begin to unlearn the false teachings and you can even find God in a more personal and meaningful way. When you get rid of all the manipulative people out of your life and you ditch the controlling doctrines, the virus can no longer mutate within your soul. You can pray and read without the influence of some hype man who has ungodly motives. You do not have to be in the ntcc or any other group to be a Christian. If Christianity is rooted in making people like Kekel rich while despising the poor and less fortunate of the world, than it really is nothing more than an infectious disease. I read the bible and really enjoy it. I know it was a grind in the ntcc, but there is so much in the book that they left out. I learned that God loves us and doesn't want to take away our personality or individuality. He wants us to be ourselves and that is who we were made to be. I know there are many wounded people out there and I think many have confused the ntcc cult religion with the true God. People have not been able to separate God from the false teachings that were force fed to them in the ntcc. When you realize that you are loved and valued by God and that we are not some junk parts put together by a shade tree mechanic who is only concerned about his own fame and fortune, it changes the image of who God really is to us. This God can not be rammed down peoples throats. Preaching has been a method that God has used to reach people, but preaching one thing while living another destroys people. Your life can preach much louder than someone behind a pulpit pointing fingers and screaming while taking up offerings. Love speaks so much louder than words do and if you don't believe me then just read 1 Cor 13. Love can be counterfeited by people who want your money, but this kind of love only endures for a season. When someone really cares about you, they aren't going to put money or anything else before that love. I think people see Jesus differently. Some see Him as a tyrant who hates people who don't pay tithe or dress a certain way. Others see Him as the only hope they have in eternity and they find peace in knowing that Jesus loves them for who they are and not who some other man expects them to be.

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  67. The NTCC is a type of North Korea; isolated, authoritative, submissive to one leader, possessing a huge appetite for entitlements and recognition. North Korea has stripped its citizens of any resemblance of themselves as they practically worship their leader. They lie about their true intentions as a handful of the "inner circle" enjoy the spoils and the rest of the country lies in blackout both spiritually and physically. The grand message we are trying to convey is that it DOES NOT HAVE TO BE THAT WAY. Jesus Christ did not save you in order for you to be a robot at the beck and call of the NTCC self appointed leadership. He did not save you in order for you to live under imposing rules that only serve to further isolate you from being free and a free thinker. Just as we in the USA beg of Kim Jung Un or whatever that idiots name is to lay down its pride and join with the South Koreans and its allies, we beg of the leadership of the NTCC to lay down its pride, admit that your man made set up is falling short of putting Jesus up as it's ruler, let the past be the past and lets all do something for the Lord, not for the NTCC. If I was Mr. Kekel, I would accept this challenge and do something outside the NTCC box that is larger than both life and the prescribed order of the NTCC starting with admitting the wrongs done and the abnormal lordship of its leaders over Gods heritage. LET MY PEOPLE GO! this doesn't mean your a failure, it does mean that you are big enough to grow with the truth when it is presented. Everyday Mr. Kekel is presented with the conundrum whether or not to forsake its communistic dealings with God's people or to set them free, give them back to the LORD fall on your face and I will to, so that we can please please please put this all behind us and go on to greater and better things. We will not go away until justice comes, when I left your organization, the Christ inside of me was severely offended at the high and lifted up leadership stealing the Glory of God and attempting to take the place of God in my walk with Him. I just listened to some preaching tapes and thoroughly enjoyed them and can see clearly that God was trying to have revival, what happened? it never came, it was stifled by smugness and pride and a desire for a money making business. I have more to say, this lives in my soul til this day. I want Jesus more than anything, do you?

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  68. Bryan, loved the North Korea analogy. Does that still hold true today? Is Kekel the "one leader" that people still worship?

    It almost sounds that since Davis passing everyone is glad to be out from under that tyrant. It also sounds like the pastors are more than happy to be involved with sports, TV, movies, and whatever else they can get their hands on.

    While I agree they have the tithe thing still over their flock or whatever they are... It almost seems like they want to transition to something more 21st century.

    Mike

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  69. Mike said,

    "It almost seems like they want to transition to something more 21st century."

    DNA say,

    Agreed. To rephrase what you've said about kekel's ntcc:

    "They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them." (1Jo 4:5 KJV)

    They don't want the "holiness" that davis pushed; because for them it was never a heartfelt worship of God, just the drudgery of serving man and man made doctrine. Once the man is gone, so is his doctrine. davis just used those doctrines of so-called holiness to control people and to have easy access to girls' butts, (something which kekel too, allegedly, 'appreciates').

    Now, anything can be a worship to God:

    "Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled." (Tit 1:15 KJV)

    So, it's fine if a woman wants to wear modest dresses as a form of what the bible calls "will worship" as unto the Lord. But we seriously question davis' and kekel's motivation for any such doctrine requiring girls to wear only dresses, especially as the ntcc trends toward tighter and shorter clothing, being led into that immodest apparel by tanya kekel herself; for even while her adopted daddy dearest rdub bloviated about girls' dresses and such, teenie tanya herself was seen wearing tight outfits that really didn't evoke thoughts of "modesty" but instead broadcast "Look at my boobs and my butt."

    Anyhow, true holiness is a state of heart, a willing submission to God's Word born of a love for Him and desire to do those things that please Him and lift up Him, not us:

    As John the Baptist confessed,

    "He must increase, but I [must] decrease." (Jhn 3:30 KJV)

    In kekel's ntcc, everything one sees all about, especially where satan's seat is, in Graham, is a man made empire, a tribute to the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh, and the pride of life. There is no better way to describe kekel's lust for his mansions and that stupid Mercedes McClaren than this:

    "For all that [is] in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." (1Jo 2:16 KJV)

    And this:

    "Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God." (Jas 4:4 KJV)

    So all you followers of kekel just know that you're not really serving God when you follow kekel:

    "No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." (Mat 6:24 KJV)

    "No servant can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon." (Luk 16:13 KJV)


    So there you have it. And if you hadn't gotten bible reading done yet today, there's a nice little bit for you.

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