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Saturday, September 5, 2015

"The Psychology To Play the People": Kekel's Life as a Religious Huckster - In his own words...

Image:  A horse stares brazenly over a barbed wire fence declaring:  "You can lead a human to knowledge; but you can't make him think."  In My NTCC My NTCC:  "Be ye not as the horse or mule, which have no understanding: whose mouth must be held in with bit and bridle, lest they come near unto thee." - (Psa 32:9) - At least think about it.

Recently Bryan Hill forwarded us a sound clip from a tape of Mike Kekel rapidly babbling about the Psychology of playing people.  We posted this link inside a comment that Bryan left with a transcript of Kekel's recording.  Click to hear Kekel talk about the psychology of playing the people.  The audio was of fairly decent quality considering how old it was and that it was a cassette recording.  We listened to it several times and agree with Bryan's assessment.  Bryan also gave us a written transcript of what kekel said and what it meant to Bryan:

From Bryan's transcript and recording of what kekel said:  "He (the devil) paints pretty pictures, he says (to kekel) look what you had before you got saved, you can't go there and you can't go here now and he begins to fill your heart with the desire to go back to the places you used to go."
He then quotes a few scriptures.

"The devil comes and says look at you now, you got off of dope and you got your mind all squared away and God delivered you, now you can go ahead and you can be that rock musician, now you can do all the things you wanted to do because YOU HAVE A LITTLE PSYCHOLOGY AND KNOW HOW TO PLAY THE PEOPLE, now you can do these things"


Then Brian shared this assessment:

In effect, the devil wanted to tap into the idea that he (kekel) had gotten saved and went to Bible School and learned the psychology needed to PLAY THE PEOPLE. Where did he get the psychology to PLAY THE PEOPLE at? well, how about NTCC Bible College where RW would teach and prepare people for the ministry/church business.

We recently received an email from Vic Johanson that contained an up to date verification that Kekel is still playing the people. The email consisted of a comment that was left on Kekel's "good report only blog", along with Kekel's answer to that comment which also contained more babbling. This was the comment left on Kekel's blog on May 8th of this year by someone named Michael B.:

"Win a lot of souls on vacation? I know when I went to school with you vacation was considered a bad word and basically forbidden." -- Michael B.

We are going to supply some running commentary on this with our words in red and Kekel's words in blue.  This Is Kekel's response on May 12:

Well Hello Michael (B.), long time no see! Now, your comment wasn’t very nice., but that’s okay. You’re saying that I did something wrong, by seeing the sights of New York. You’re also implying that Pastor taught us that vacations were forbidden, which he didn’t. -- m c kekel

The question that Michael B. asked was legit.  If Kekel is all about winning souls, why would it offend him to be asked if he won any souls on his vacation?  Nothing mean spirited about that.  But kekel is using manipulative loaded language to change how you feel about what Michael B. asked.  If Kekel is supposed to be a full time Christian, would a vacation negate his responsibility to win souls? Or does ntcc soul winning only take place as part of a 'program' on nights designated for soul winning?  Michael B.'s comment goes on to say that "vacation was a bad word and basically forbidden" in bible school.  Kekel admits guilt by interpreting that to mean that he did something wrong by seeing the sights of New York.  The comment left by Michael B. simply states a fact.

If vacations were not basically forbidden in bible school, then how many bible school students were allowed to go on vacations?  Are there any of our readers that have been to bible school that have ever taken a vacation in the middle of bible school or even during their years in the ministry? Remember, the cult-required biannual conferences (where you dropped off your kids at grandma's so she can babysit them) trips don't count as vacations!

Les R. got kicked out of bible school and evicted allegedly for visiting another church on his day off.  Perhaps the real motivation for ntcc to run him off was because he discovered davis' sordid lecherous ways in the church that disfellowshipped davis.  But for the sake of conversation, let's say ntcc kicked Les R. to the curb as they claimed, because he visited another church; we'd hate to see what would happen if someone in bible school went on a vacation.

So, if davis didn't teach that vacations were forbidden, then we should get a lot of comments from former bible school students and ministers that share about their joyous vacations that they took while attending bible school or being in the ntcc ministry (as such). My guess is that vacations were forbidden; because people have shared that it was next to impossible to even attend a funeral of a blood relative while attending cult indoctrination courses at the ntcc or even when attending services at a Servicemen's Home Mini Cult Indoctrination Center (MCIC).  Most people we know have never taken a vacation their entire time in the ntcc.  Could it be possible that Kekel is once again being deceptive?

kekel continues playing the people -- "Pastor taught, what Jesus taught (and it hasn’t changed in NTCC), that if you put such things, or ANYTHING ‘before God’, THEN, it’s wrong. God also sanctified a day of rest in the very beginning. I can hear it now, Genesis 2 (2) – “And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he ‘went soul winning’ on the seventh day”. I remember Pastor sending overseers to take Servicemen’s Homes for a week so the Pastor could get away. It didn’t all pan out, but he wanted them to take time away, because everyone needs that."

Davis taught what Jesus taught?  Really?  That is one of the most blasphemous statements we have ever read, especially since we are very familiar with the many false doctrines of davis!  This false claim by kekel is where you see the psychology of a huckster being peddled to the masses.  Kekel is using the psychology he learned from davis to play the people.

Next Kekel assumes and implies that anyone (other than he himself) taking a vacation is putting things before God.  So if a bible school student were to take a vacation, he would be putting that vacation before God?  If a minister wanted to take a vacation, why couldn't he?  A lot of churches have  trained workers.  Why can't these workers step up to the plate?

Then we have Kekel's illustration about soul winning on Sunday.  This draws attention to how condescending and hypocritical he is.  He needs time off; because his responsibilities are so demanding that he invokes Gen. 2:2; but the consequences for anyone else missing one ntcc scheduled event for any reason are so dire that nobody dares to break any rules. Rules are mainly broken by the ntcc leadership.  Not paying tithe is the only Old Testament ordinance that will land you in hell as far as Kekel is concerned. Tithe paying followers are the only followers that will help maintain Kekel's lifestyle.  

Then kekel says he remembers davis "sending Overseers ... so the Pastor could get away."  I was in and around Servicemen's homes for 13 years; yet I never saw or heard of any Overseers taking over churches for a week so that a Pastor could get away. I wonder why that program failed?  Davis has never been about helping anyone but himself.  He probably did it one or two times just so he could say that he did it; just like Tom Wright asked Bryan to ask him about tithe so that Tom could preach that someone asked him about tithe. They all learn the psychology of playing people!

And then we see this Freudian slip:  "I remember Pastor sending overseers to take Servicemen’s Homes for a week so the Pastor could get away." Yeah, so the Pastor could get away!  From what?  That 14 year-old girl's dad with the shotgun?  Or get away from that Brother who wants to know why his 'pastor' Philandering Phil Kinson was retrieving his wallet from a WHORE HOUSE!?! Yup, in those cases, the ntcc will definitely send an Overseer (also known as a Spiritual Assassin) "so the Pastor can get away".  Ahem!

kekel also said -- "My three jobs involve the Bible school with all its needs; weekly office hours involving both the Org. and Sch. offices; Organizational business with Pastors and leaders and administrational tasks. The grounds crew and maintenance men; class administration and teaching; office hours; counseling; the music program; soul winning program; pastoring, and much more."

Three jobs?  Puh-leez! The only "job" kekel has is giving you this huge snow job!  He married the founder's daughter and it's been nothing but gravy and vacations ever since.  Three jobs? Seriously?  Wow, Kekel, you must have been given super human powers to deal with all of these responsibilities. I guess this justifies your need for a vacation while everyone else is expected to keep their nose to the grindstone.

All of the activities that Kekel mentioned above are delegated to some schlub that doesn't know the meaning of the word vacation.  What is the purpose of having DiFrancesco around?  Isn't he an administrator?  What about George Keys and Mark Ripka?  How about (Timothy) Paul Jordan or whoever the current office schlubs are?  Doesn't everyone administrate in some form or fashion?  We administer this blog and right now I'm up at 3:00 in the morning. Big deal.  We're not asking anyone to cry us a river.  


kekel then complains -- "All this places demands on my wife and me, which BTW, we gladly bear, especially since many in the past have been unwilling to ‘stay the course’ and carry their responsibility, so it falls on whoever is willing to pick up the slack. We do it for the Lord, and no task is too menial; I’m not complaining, it is a privilege. Nevertheless it’s high stress."

It's got to be very demanding, living in that mansion and driving expensive cars around to fulfill all of Kekel's "administrational" tasks.  It's a good thing that Kekel is around to pick up the slack for all of those many people who have been slackers in the ntcc.  What makes them slackers, anyway?  The fact that they want to go on vacations like Kekel but can't?  It's amazing that people are brainwashed enough to actually believe this stuff.


No task is too menial?  Why do you need a Squadron of women to clean your Mansion every week? If you are in the ntcc, you are being played like a bluegrass fiddle at Winterfest, where Kekel was caught sneaking around in blue jeans (slacking off) during hours when everyone else was out soul winning. Oh, BTW, since the borgites love to be grammar nazis, here's sumpin' for ya:  It's "administrative" tasks; so Wright Back at Ya.  And "Sch", according to Wiki, refers to Schizophrenia and a dozen other things, but not a school.  Sounds like kekel made another Freudian Slip.

Kekel complains about more regrets -- "Over the years when we HAVE had a chance to take a little time, the work of the Lord required us to cancel plans, change plane tickets. Anniversary plans of a few days to ourselves, have gone to pot over and over, because someone had a need, or there was an emergency in someone’s life. No regrets, that’s the ministry."

How many pastors in the ntcc get to make anniversary plans?  You know what my wife Ange and her first (late)  husband Eric Barden did for their honeymoon? They spent it on Guard Duty watching kekel's house and the other ntcc assets while everyone else was at the Campground.  Wow!  What a fun honeymoon, making hourly tours of the campus and driving over to the kekels' Mountain View Mansion to make sure that no thieves break through and steal.  (Mat 6:19)  How many trips do other ntcc folks get to take to Disney World?  (Like the kekels did.) How many trips do they get to take to Europe?  Or Hawaii?  Kekel was reportedly vacationing in Hawaii for over a week and only attended ONE church service!  This was supposedly a revival where offerings were taken up to help finance this vacation.

For someone with no regrets, Kekel sure does a lot of bellyaching over it. Kekel's entire rebuttal is an attempt to justify his hypocritical lifestyle.  The dude, Michael B., asked Kekel one question and then made a statement that was one sentence long; and Kekel has to explain himself by writing 7 paragraphs of excuses as a response.  A guilty conscience needeth no accuser. -- from ntcc's book of wisdom aka the Book of Hezekiah. ;-)

Kekel blathers on -- Besides, here in Washington, I have Pastor (Philandering Phil) Kinson and a great staff working closely with me, so that I can be away from the church and school. What Pastor (davis) never understood, and I agree, is how someone can just shut the doors on their work for God and be gone, while it falls through. If you went to the store and it wasn’t open during its business hours you would not be a happy customer. The doors in Graham are NEVER closed, everything is always in place.

The doors might not ever be closed, but the gates sure are!  There's a reason the local residents call NTCC "The Church Behind The Fence".  Kekel has Kinson and a great staff? Great bunch of people up there.  Must be nice to be able to leave your responsibilities behind to someone else while you slack off and gallivant around the country at the expense of the tithe payers, checking out all the amusement parks, bluegrass festivals and historical landmarks; you slacker! 

The problem here is that the rules never applied to Kekel; and that is why he doesn't mind breaking them. In fact, Kekel was surrounded with people that preach rules to others; but they don't live what they preach.  The rules only apply to 'the little people' - those whom they brainwash.  It's all about psychology and playing the people.  If you can get people to believe that the rules and policies originate from God, then people will think they are sinning if they break them.  If you can convince people that you are God's messenger and that they are out of place to question your motives, people will often ignore your willingness to break your own rules.  That's what the ntcc is all about.  Davis has said, "He loves a house more than God".  Meanwhile, Davis had the most elaborate mansion in the ntcc.  They preach against makeup, while their wives wear foundation makeup. Kekel learned this hypocrisy and Psychology from Davis; and mc kekel has been playing the people now for years.  

kekel complains about his heavy cross -- During that five days in New York, I preached four services, spent time with numerous Pastors regarding a host of subjects; we spent time with their people; we fellowshipped; I worked on their PA Systems; we put over 1,200 miles on our rental car. Now you’re going to find fault with me over a rest day? I forgive you.

This is confirmation of the true meaning of Kekel's blunderous remark on the audio clip that Bryan sent us.  It appears that Kekel really got his Super Spiritual feathers -SSF- ruffled by this comment.  Kekel closes his tirade with the words, "I forgive you."  Kekel has it all backwards. The person who left this comment is doing the people a service by pointing out that vacations for you, the little people, were never encouraged in the ntcc.  When Kekel flaunts his travel tour to the Big Apple on his blog, he must know that it would upset the ministers who have never been able to do such things. 

Image:  A cartoon stick figure preacher hides behind a pulpit while laying down the law in My NTCC:  An ntcc huckster declares "I am not trying to control you.  I only want you to control yourselves... in accordance with my RULES; oops, I mean, policies.  Heh, heh, heh!"

The Vacation 'policy' Rule was a lot like the Vasectomy 'policy' Rule.  One person testified that he got his vasectomy when he was only 19 years old and still to this day suffers from pain resulting from that operation.  kekel claims that Davis never said that vasectomies were mandatory?  Hogwash!  All davis had to do was say that kids in the ministry would cause you to be a failure.   All davis did was rail on married pregnant women when God blessed them with a baby, bring those women to tears by falsely accusing that they "ruined their husband's ministry" and that they would have to answer to God for doing so.  Why would people get vasectomies if they didn't think there was anything wrong with having children in the ministry?  Why would Davis encourage dozens of men to get vasectomies when God said having children was a good thing?  Davis could have stopped his false doctrine when he learned of the first person who got snipped; all davis would have had to do is tell them that it wasn't his intention for men to go out and get neutered; he could have on many occasions rescinded his false claim, something completely contrary to God's Word, that children hinder the work of the Lord; but Davis loved controlling every aspect of the lives of his followers.  So he blithely continued encouraging other men to be snipped, cutting off their chance for a family, an inheritance from God.  How Satanic!  

Just because Davis never directly said that vacations were a sin or forbidden, it doesn't mean that people were not manipulated (played by psychology) to believe that vacations were wrong.  Kekel himself in his rebuttal is using weasel words to imply that taking a vacation is putting things before God. 

This is what cult leaders do. They play the people with psychology!  They convince people to do things; and then deny that they had anything to do with it. 

They can't win people to God by coming out and telling them that they are required to pay them 10% of their money for the rest of their lives.  Nobody would come out to church if they were honest about their motives.  They convince them first that they are God's chosen; and then they use psychology to get people to pay up. This process may take a few weeks or months.  Most people don't understand that the Old Testament ordinances like tithe and sacraments were done away with when Jesus died on the cross.

What Kekel and the ntcc leaders do is an affront to Christ and the true church. They have misused the Old Testament scriptures to turn the ntcc into a money making enterprise. They truly are professional con artists and hucksters who use Psychology to play the people!


156 comments:

  1. Speaking of Schizophrenia, now known to real psychologists as Dissociative Identity Disorder, hearing kekel speak out of both sides of his mouth, and reading his duality in his written statements, reminded us or another infamous case, The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde ( a novella by Robert Louis Stevenson more at Wiki or copy and paste https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strange_Case_of_Dr_Jekyll_and_Mr_Hyde ). Of course, with mike the title would become Dr. Kekel and Mr. Jive.

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  2. Kekel is full of crapola! Anybody that was in that org knows that it was taught you did not go on vacations!

    Remember that I was called into his office for taking my son to the fair! What the hell was wrong with that? I was not drinking, nor was I participating in illicit activity; but oh yeah things changed because Davis family members were going on vacations.

    What a bunch of lies these people come up with! I don't know how these people will make it to heaven. If heaven has men and women like this I don't want to go.

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  3. Another infamous alter ego reminiscent of kekel and his nefarious ways, is highlighted in this video from The Lord of The Rings Trilogy.

    **SPOILER ALERT** We will be discussing the end of the story, so don't read beyond this statement if you don't want to know the ending. **

    In this video Sméagol wrestles for dominance of his own alter ego, Gollum, the skin and bones shadow of a one-time hobbit. Though Sméagol wins this battle, joyously proclaiming "Sméagol's FRreeEE!", Gollum exceeds in the end, giving in to his lust and dancing his way into the flames. While the personality struggle reminds us of kekel, physically Gollum reminds us of Elliot Gesang; and Eli's past proclivity for spelunking dovetails with Gollum's former abode.

    If the "Comment By" link does not work, to watch the video "Gollum vs. Sméagol (LOTR)" click here or copy and paste this URL into your browser:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NB2CNr692RE

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  4. Anonymous said,

    "What a bunch of lies these people come up with! I don't know how these people will make it to heaven. If heaven has men and women like this I don't want to go."

    Ange says,

    Anon, I understand your passion. That's why God dealt so fiercely with the hypocrites, proclaiming:

    [Mat 23:13 KJV] 13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

    [Mat 23:4 KJV] 4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay [them] on men's shoulders; but they [themselves] will not move them with one of their fingers.

    You see, I too reached that point, where I considered all the stunning hypocrisy of the ntcc and its devastating effect on sincere people who want to serve God. And I felt EXACTLY like that, if that's what goes on in heaven, if the ntcc-types are going to be there, I don't want anything to do with it! But God graciously sent two different people, in two different churches on the same day, to two different church services that I attended that day. Both people spoke for God when they stood up and prophesied:

    THEY HAVE MISREPRESENTED ME!

    I knew this was the Word of the Lord to my broken heart; that God was nothing like the ntcc leadership said; that God would not allow such hypocrisy to come near His throne.

    I still love God and look forward to going to heaven some day. Don't worry. There won't be any hypocrites there.

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  5. Vacations ever being an option for servicemen's home??? That was never an opportunity in any servicemen's home I was in. In fact when Ralph and Joan opened the servicemen's home in Ft.Hood, Tx we had some of Ralph's family visited us. We were not even allowed to do much with them. He called in to ask for even the kids to go do something with them but that was out. He was told they must attend every service while in town. One thing we did do was take them out so the females could buy dresses to wear for church. Yet when the Olsons, Johnsons, or Davises were in town they wouldn't spend the full days with us. They would go do things and only came around for dinners, services and after services times. Kekel is such a liar!

    Hugs,

    Julie

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  6. Kekel, has been found out. I see clearly how he manipulates words to his advantage while revealing just how far removed he is from how things were for the last 30 years. I guess being an administrator has its advantages. That trip to NY was so rough, I mean it snowed and everything. Here are some other things I witnessed thru the years that were for the privileged only:

    Kekel - gets to work out with weights while everyone else is blasted with how fleshly an activity it is while being quoted the "exercise profiteth little" scripture. He gets to take up art and has time to learn the information technology skills as well as build his own house. (I'm not saying that was a easy task and that he didn't sacrifice a few blisters, but I would take that any day over deploying to a combat zone again and/or working night and day to pioneer a church just to leave with my shirt on my back). But listen closely for the weasel words that bind you to a guilty conscience for even thinking of doing such things yourself, when, (here we go) "souls are dying and going to hell" is being hurled at you like hand grenades. Well they were dying and going to hell when you were at disney-land to silly.

    Blumenthal - found time to take flying lessons and earn his pilots license to fulfil the lust of trying to be like Davis. He use to put alot of pressure on winning souls and made the statement that I was responsible for every soul I came in contact with and if they go to hell it would be my fault. This was the reason to tell everyone I knew about Jesus. I asked him if he witnessed to those he passed by enroute from the church to the restuarant on Sunday afternoons. Weasel words, so asked again and wanted a real answer, which was "NO". I said then according to your own words, you would be responsible for them if they went to hell. It was not entirely about souls for Jesus, it was the numbers he was after as well. I don't appreciate the attempt to be played with weasel words and bootleg psychology in order to build your church and beef up your Monday reports to Graham.

    Gandy - well Gandy's not even worth mentioning. Next.

    Jones - comes rolling down the street in a brand new sports car, flips a u-turn and parks in front of the Holy Hills church and then chides everyone else for blowing there money on big macs and soda pop while he sacrificed to have nice things. Of course they are going to tell you that you have to pay your tithe or go to hell, it supports their lifestyle and feeds their pride. BTW Jones claims he would not take the time to see his own dying father on a hospital bed if it meant missing a church service and then quotes "he that loveth Father more than me, is not worthy of me...". Hey you bible illiterate numbskull, that is not what the verse means. It in no way means you cannot miss a church service if you wanted to comfort your dying father on his death bed. How does that equate to loving your Father more than Jesus? Manipulating scripture to keep your sheep in the sheep pin. Can't have people thinking they can take off and go see family now can we. I wonder if he still believes that NTCC is the last and only work of God on earth and that you cannot be saved outside of this org.

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    1. Gandy is a big huge control freak. I don't know much about other preachers but what u mentioned about them, that describes Gandy. I had nothing but bad experiences with him. I mean real bad.

      Delete
  7. If you look at the bi-laws, it in effect says that the NTCC schlubs owe vacations to the leadership each year, and, oh yea by the way, you will be paying the bill. We use to use our vacation time to go the conferences while the hard working and sacrificing elitest leadership gets to motorhome it to the conferences while stopping where they want on the way and at times even to see family. They will get a real paid vacation as soon as you get back to your work for the Lord and hit the streets soul winning again, even if your own father is dying on a hospital bed - don't even think of asking permission to go see him. You know you been played when you are controlled by those you pay to control you and then feel guilty for questioning what normal people see as cultish personality traits. You know you been played when your pastor comes rolling up in a new car that your tithe dollars paid for and then demeans you for blowing your money on big macs. You know you have been played when your secretly reading this blog but then you go to church and put on the act that you are NTCC all the way. Why don't you grow a pair and stand up for what your convictions really are? Start following your God instead of the NTCC god. The NTCC god is the NTCC org itself along with the leadership that traded in their convictions for position under RW who had lost his way the minute he decided he wanted to be a business man over a true follower of Jesus Christ. He loved that CEO stuff and enjoyed hammering those who simply wanted Jesus. The only way RW could build this org was thru some home-spun psychology that used and abused people and then these same people would believe it was God doing it. He would use scripture to keep you reeled in tight. The moment you cut loose and break free, you now have become satan incarnate and this same psychology will start to work on those who saw you leave in order to cause them to fear and to dare not ask questions. You can be the greatest thing one minute cuase you have taken up the NTCC cuase and then the devil the next if you drop the ball. It is some serious manipulating that keeps people in this vortex. Look up RG Stair and his overcomer ministry, much of the same stuff goes on there as he used to manipulate people to give up all they had to join his ministry under the guise of holiness and being God's last day apostle (hey I thought RW was God's last day apostle, what is going on here). So if you see it in other ministries and it stinks to high heaven, then why can't you see it in the one your in? could it be that you have drank the Kool Aid? What strings are binding you to this organization? If you look close you will see that they got in your head and you think your special by being a part and you want to be accepted and approved by your leadership, you want nothing more than to hear "well done thou good and faithful NTCC minister", that "NTCC minister" part is what they put in your head thru strings of diseased psychology and manipulation spun by RW after he broke away from all his peers and started a organization, notice, he started an organization which speaks of being caught up in its kogs, not a church. I'm trying to turn the light on for you but I can't make you see. If you really think these people are your ticket to heaven then you have been played royally. Wake up!

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  8. when D/A comment, they are one in the same, they are all nuts.

    Buddy

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  9. Anonymous said...
    when D/A comment, they are one in the same, they are all nuts.

    Buddy

    DNA said:

    Perhaps. They said the same about Paul. "thou art beside thyself; much learning doth make thee mad." Acts 26:24 We'll take that as a compliment, Buddy. Is that your real name?

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  10. Julie said:

    "In fact when Ralph and Joan opened the servicemen's home in Ft.Hood, Tx we had some of Ralph's family visited us. We were not even allowed to do much with them. He called in to ask for even the kids to go do something with them but that was out. He was told they must attend every service while in town. One thing we did do was take them out so the females could buy dresses to wear for church."

    DNA said:

    This shows their true colors and how much family members were considered a threat by the borg. In the Military we were given 30 days leave every year. That was our vacation, because even when you are getting paid to live under a dictatorship structure, they are decent enough to let you go home and see your family. Do people that go home on leave always come back, or do some go AWOL. Most come back and I would venture to say that more soldiers who go on leave come back to the Army than those who take vacations in the ntcc. Even in an authoritarian environment like the Army people have more freedom and more to come back to than in the ntcc. I would guess that the percentage of soldiers who go on leave and never return back to their military units is much less then 1%. Those who go home to visit their families in the ntcc and don't come back is much higher.

    The military is a picnic compared to the ntcc. You might be under subjection to your military leaders and have to do things that you don't like to do, but when you are off duty, you pretty much get to do what you want to do. You can breath and make some decisions for yourself, and you don't have to ask your leaders for permission to do the things you wan't to do. In the ntcc, people go on leave and they don't come back because their families recognize the ntcc for what they are and warn their loved ones not to fall into the trap. You want to talk about a bunch of nut cases, you will find them in the ntcc. They don't want you to go home and they don't want your families around either.

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  11. On Deb and Gregory's blog it was shared how that they convinced their older sister, Ester, to come to St. Louis and attend bible college. She and her children came and were allowed to live with Deb and her former husband Rick Blumenthal. Shortly after this, it would seem that Davis seen Ester as a threat and decided to send the Deb and Rick to another work. The Women that were recruited by Davis from Colorado were given promises by Davis that they would be able to return to Colorado upon completion of bible school. Deb felt awful that she had encouraged her sister to attend bible school and then had to leave her, but Rick wanted to please Davis so they were forced to abandon their sister Ester and her children. Unfortunately, Ester and her children were sentenced to live with Gesang the abuser. Deb and Ester's mom came to visit and help with the children and found Ester had lost a lot of weight and one child was sick with diarrhea running down their leg while the other had a very painful toe injury. Deb's Mom wanted to be a blessing to the Gesangs for allowing their daughter to stay at their house so she decided to cook for them but when she looked in Gesang's cupboards, there was nothing to cook. Gesang rebuked Deb's mom for looking through his cupboards. Later Deb's mom did a very smart thing and offered Ester to take the kids home to California and take care of them until Ester and her husband Manuel got on their feet and were financially set up. Gezang was listening to this conversation and went running to Davis to spread the gossip. It was too late because Deb's mom had loaded the children up on an airplane and got them to safety. Davis was infuriated and had Gesang kick Ester and Manuel out of his house and into the streets without any money to get an apartment of their own. Davis was so furious he threatened anyone who helped Ester and Manuel with Excommunication from the cult. One man named Salvador, who had children of his own and was from the church in Colorado who was a real Christian and actually loved people and cared about them offered Ester and Manuel a place to stay with them in their home. Davis dispatched Gesang and Taylor to go from house to house and discover who was hiding them so that he could excommunicate that person. Gesang and Taylor knocked on Salvador's door and when Salvador told them that Ester was staying with him they tried to force their way into his house, but Salvador stood his ground.

    This is what Davis, Olson and Kekel are all about. They look at families as a threat to their existence and they will do anything to tear down and destroy relationships between anyone who might be considered a threat. Deb shared this story over five years ago. Everybody still is drinking the Koolaid and many look at Davis as if he was God's appointed apostle and should never be disrespected. Davis was nothing but a big time abuser and narcissist that feared anyone who stood up to him. Looking at his Sordid past, it doesn't appear that Davis ever exhibited any Christian qualities and the ntcc was spawned of of his desire to get rich and have control over the lives of the victims of his scam, so he could abuse and torment them. Olson and Kekel are products of Davis and are just as corrupt as Davis was. They are a nuisance to society and they don't care about people in any way whatsoever.

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  12. I was thinking about how confusing the organizational leadership structure in the ntcc is. You have Olson who everyone is calling Pastor of the Organization which is not an official title according to the bylaws. Olson also calls himself the Chairman of the Board on his blog otherwise known as the Chairman's blog. It also says: About JHO: COB of New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc., headquartered in St. Louis, MO. So, when they list the Officer's of the Executive Board, they have Davis first listed as the Founder, then "J. H. Olson - Chairman of the Board (COB) & President" and then "M. C. Kekel - Chief Executive Officer (CEO)". The Bylaws pertaining to leadership read as follows:

    Article I — Executive Chairman of the Board
    (A) The Executive Chairman of the Board shall be elected to an indefinite term of office by the incorporators.
    (B) This term shall begin immediately upon election and expire upon the decision of the Executive Chairman or his demise.
    (C) The Executive Chairman of the Board shall be Chief Executive Officer of the organization. (Hereinafter referred to as C.E.O.)

    Article II — President
    (A) The President shall work under the C.E.O.

    Who is in charge of the ntcc? Why are they mixing titles and making it as confusing as possible to know who their master is? Do people in the ntcc even know who is in charge?

    This is my take on it. Nobody goes by the title of Executive Chairman of the Board, but Olson's title is Chairman of the board and President. The bylaws do not recognize "Chairman of the Board" as a position: but only the "President" is recognized. Then it goes on to explain that the position "Executive Chairman of the Board which hereinafter is referred to as CEO". Kekel holds the title of CEO and according to the bylaws the president, J. Olson reports to Kekel. Why the misdirection and the deception? Does anyone in the ntcc even care who is in charge or why this leadership structure is so confusing and misleading? This was contrived by someone for a purpose. The only thing that I can think of is that ntcc'rs can not stomach the thought of calling Kekel pastor, and Kekel doesn't want to deal with the responsibility of all the phone calls and the demand of that position on his life. It would definitely interfere with his ability to be unaccountable all the time. Right now Kekel says he has everything in place so he can leave any time he wants to and go on trips. Too bad Kekel has to pick up the slack for Difrancesco. According to the bylaws Kekel's title doesn't require any "Administrational" responsibilities but there are apparently so many slackers in the ntcc and nobody will step up to bear those burdens so Kekel has bear the cross and do everyone else's job for them. Is there not another man that will fill in the gap and make up the hedge in the ntcc so Kekel can get some relief?

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  13. "But that's okay..."

    when are they going to retire those lame a-- terms? you'd think after 40 years they would come up with something new!

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  14. Some guy that calls himself buddy attempted to leave a disparaging comment that was directed toward Bryan Hill. He wanted to bring up Bryan's past. It's interesting how that these ntcc'rs and sympathizers don't want to acknowledge the past of the ntcc leadership but they will attempt to smear people who comment on this blog. Bryan uses his full name and therefore he has credibility. "Buddy", however, has no credibility on this blog and doesn't get to use this blog as a platform to run people down. All Bryan did was share a tape of Kekel saying that he learned psychology to play the people and buddy looses the victory over it. You should be outraged at Kekel, not the messenger who exposed him for his hypocrisy. If you want to post something negative about someone who contributes to this blog, don't expect your voice to be heard, especially if you don't own it, by putting your name on it. You ntcc'rs are to afraid to own up to your comments. What are you afraid of? Does your master know that you are reading the blogs? I published your negative comment about Ange and I, but you don't get to come on this blog and run people down just because you don't like what they share. What have you done, buddy, to help people whose lives have been destroyed by the people you worship?

    I don't care what Bryan or anyone did while they were in the ntcc because they have since departed and are no longer under their influence. The whole purpose of this blog is to expose the ntcc and it's leadership for the abuse that people suffered at their hands. People were influenced and manipulated to do things that they normally wouldn't have done, and that includes me. The ntcc hypocrites want to catch people in sin and have the congregation stone them for it, while they hide and cover up their own grievous sins, but when they are told to pick up the first rock and throw it, they don't want to live with the public perception of being unmerciful. Davis had people write confessions of sins on papers called "This is I", and then publicly used those papers to assassinate their character for what they shared in confidence about their past. The ntcc is a cult and people like "buddy" are the products of ntcc manipulation. When "buddy" gets kicked to the curb by his beloved borg leaders, he might decide one day that they were never his friends in the first place, and he'll be on the blogs sharing what they put him through. Don't expect us to be fair towards people like Kekel whose sole purpose in life has been to make people miserable and get rich in the process. Don't bring up the past of the people that you want us to help you stone. The best course of action for you, buddy, is to walk away with your head held in shame like the Pharisees who wanted to provoke Jesus by bringing up someone else's sins rather than their own. They all walked away leaving the woman taken in adultery with Jesus, who was more interested in her salvation than her condemnation. The Pharisees were the ones who Jesus had little patience with because their sole purpose and mission was to live lavishly while heaping condemnation on others.

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  15. This is an amazing thing to have on tape. Thanks Bryan Hill so much for taking the time to share this. It shows how a proud fool can never keep from showing his true colors. He probably hates that you have this and that you have been willing to share with others. You have contribute a lot of important information on this blog. I appreciate it.

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  16. For Buddy to bring up some past sin of mine in response to my posting is so reminiscent of how I remember NTCC. Kinda of like when RW, in response to five people who showed up at a conference in St. Louis asking forgiveness for some past slight against him. RW got behind the pulpit and in no uncertain terms blasted out these words - "YOU ARE NOT FORGIVEN". George Jordan alluded to two past sins of mine on Factnet when he soon learned he could not control me; one a myth and one true. In those wonderful and pios words of Kekel. "Its ok, I forgive you".

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  17. Bryan Hill said:

    For Buddy to bring up some past sin of mine in response to my posting is so reminiscent of how I remember NTCC.

    DNA said:

    I doubt his name is really Buddy. He's a coward like many in the ntcc. They will speak bold words against the people that they offended, but they don't have enough character to be a man and own up to their statements. They live in utter fear that anything they might do would cause them to loose favor with the hypocrites that they worship and serve. Buddy, or whatever his name is, has an inferiority complex as many in the ntcc do. They know that the ntcc is a dead end road but they are so used to marching to the drumbeat of the ntcc that they tremble at the thought of doing anything against their deadbeat leaders. The pastors in the ntcc are terrified to think for themselves and do anything that contradicts the hypocrites they worship.

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  18. Hey Buddy, if I remember correctly Bryan Hill gave an apology in the comments of this blog this past year asking forgiveness for any wrongs he had done to others while in NTCC. He admitted he did things he was not proud of while under the influence of the Borg.

    Buddy, that what a man does. He acknowledges his wrongs and asks for forgiveness. Now pass that along to Kekel and the administrators, they clueless on how to act like a man!

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  19. ABC...Acknowledge, Be forgiven(by asking), Change your ways.

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  20. Yea, it is quite easy to hide behind a mask and hurl accusations. I stand by what I say and who I am, though quite imperfect. My strength comes in whose I am and in whom I serve, and it sure isn't the NTCC. I'm not a puppet on a string. It must infuriate them that they cannot control those outside their sphere of hypocrisy. If you are wondering why I even take the time to join the chorus of voices exposing the NTCC, it is because this organization, in my opinion, and according to my experience, is an affront against the person of Christ. As Don says, from a biblical stand-point, they would equal the Pharisee's of bible times. Let me give you an example of how the spirit behind the NTCC offends the person of Jesus Christ. Show me in the Bible where scripture puts the amount of effort and emphasis on building an organization that doesn't feed the hungry, visit those in prison, support widows who are widows indeed, send forth missionaries around the world, cast out demons and heal the sick and perform miracles. Here, let me help you out; show me in the bible where this amount of emphasis is put on even building an organization, or for that matter, show me where your suppose to secure buildings and real estate for a church as a primary focus of ministry. Let's go a step further, show me where one dollar of tithe, in scripture, has ever went to any of what NTCC does. Lets nail this down, show me one scripture in the bible where NT churches paid tithe at all.

    So, the manipulation that goes into building this type of a hierarchal organization is offensive to the Christ of those who he calls to take up their cross and follow him. If you're in the NTCC the org will Lord over the saint and add to the walk with Christ leaving him on the outside much like Kekel who told the hungry homeless man that he had to go down the street to a different church because, as kekel said, "we don't have that type of ministry here. In addition, like Jones who stopped me at the front door when I brought an overweight, blind, scabbed girl to church after having weeks of bible studies with her. Jones said "what are you doing bringing her here"? I said she is hungry for God and he says "don't you ever bring her back here" and we had not even made it through the door. Yes, I admit she didn't have a car, didn't have money and she even had a bad smell with sores on her blind body as I led her into the church, but it was such Christ died for but she didn't meet the NTCC criteria. LD Jones, you should be ashamed of yourself, it took weeks for her to build her courage to come to church and you told me to not bring her back.

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  21. You know you have been played when you call yourself a church and yet selective in who you let in. You know you have been played when you are required to write a "this is I" paper listing "every bad thing you have done, don't hold back" (RW's words) and not have a clue the real purpose was for it to be filed and later the information you wrote in it used against you, in spite that what was written was prior to salvation. The "psychology" that kekel referred to is the dubious methods RW used against unsuspecting young men and women, all in order to build the organization under a heavy hand of control and manipulation. What I write is derived from my experiences of 13 yrs in the NTCC evolving from a GI to an ordained minister until the day I resigned (due to years of verbal, financial and spiritual abuse) while pastoring in Mesa AZ in 1994. When I left, there was no exposure on the internet. I knew nobody and was black listed because I now was not considered a believer. Leadership from within the org would call my wife while I was at work and try and sell her a bill of goods based on one scripture - "Not of us because he went out from among us", promising her a new husband once she got to the mother church. I got phone calls from board level leadership stating "I fear for you", "God is going to judge you", how can you do this after everything RW has done for you" etc...

    While in the NTCC you have no recourse, you can't even afford to question anything, so after all the Lording over me by my superiors, I stumble on this forum, and the NTCC does not own me. The offense against Christ the NTCC wages is so putrid that I sense righteous indignation even as I am typing, fully persuaded that the inner workings that have overtook NTCC is none more than the psychology to play the people that Kekel so naturally alluded in his younger years not knowing it would be a problem later as people would discover the true NTCC. Instead of giving an intelligent answer to any of the accusations by exers, they bring up some sin I committed over 30 years ago, that alone shows the true colors of this religious group. But this is as old as Adam. Back in the 80's when a good brother would leave, now all the sudden all these sins were coming out of the wood work supposedly and being announce from behind the pulpit. If you current NTCCers think this cannot happen to you, think again. You know you been played when you think you're in a church, saved by the blood and Grace of God, only to find that your pastors reserve the right to resurrect your sins at will and discount the affect of the blood of Christ upon your life. Better yet, as RW did, reserve the right to NOT extend forgiveness. You will look back over the years you spent in that org with mixed feelings as you relive the offenses and the manipulation slowly illuminates in your heart, mind and soul. You will seek an outlet and release the steam of disgust rising within against those self appointed Lords of God's heritage and count your silence a crime against those still trapped, still blind, still religious, still esteeming the countenance of men rather than God. Play me once shame on you, play me twice shame on me.

    Bryan David Hill

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  22. We would like to clarify something we said earlier in a comment on this thread. It was brought to our attention that Schizophrenia and Disassociative Identity Disorder are two completely different things. A common misconception is that Schizophrenia means split personality. While the word Schizophrenia comes from a greek word "skhizein, meaning "to split", and phrēn, meaning "mind", schizophrenia does not imply a "split personality" or a multiple personality disorder, but rather the splitting of psychic functions. Not only is this a common mistake but a survey was taken and 64% of the people asked thought that schizophrenia was the same as split or multiple personality disorder. Medicine has evolved and so has the terminology. The term split personality was replaced by multiple personality and now that term has been replaced by Disassociative Identity Disorder or DID.

    We made an honest mistake but we endeavor to publish information that is correct. The ntcc never admits they are wrong or mistaken about anything. If Davis says the sky is green, then guess what? The sky is green according to Olson. We've been wrong about things in the past but usually it's about trivial things that don't make much of a difference. Not saying that Sch. or DID are trivial but we get corrected by people who know what they are talking about once or twice a year. Sometime people will correct us when we aren't wrong also. Others will rebuke us for saying things that they have said themselves and forgot they said it. We have a fairly decent average, so far. Much of this blog is opinion based on true life experiences. People in the ntcc don't think that we have a right to have opinions while they use the pulpit to spew out hatred and cast aspersions thus humiliating folks that they call brethren in front of large crowds of people. Most of our commentary is directed at their hypocrisy for condemning others in the very things that they allow.

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  23. If the ntcc leadership were honest Christians they would that they are wrong about tithe. They know the bible well enough to know that there is not one scripture in the New Testament that commands Christians to pay tithe. They are not stupid, but they are money grubbers. They take you for a bunch of fools and you let them. They won't admit they are wrong and stop stealing your hard earned money under the guise that if you don't pay tithe, you are a God robber. They have all read the bible enough to know that this is false doctrine. They won't admit they are wrong about anything. You have been played by them because they know that tithe was only paid according to the Levitical order and it was only paid by the Hebrews. They know the bible but they are master manipulators that play the people so they can drive around in their sports cars and Cadillacs rebuking people for eating a Big Mac. Jones is a user and a poser. Jones isn't a Christian. If he treated that blind woman like an outcast he is an absolute rot gut sinner and a hypocrite to boot. He wouldn't know Jesus if Jesus came down out of heaven and appeared to him. They are all a bunch of money grubbers. They are playing you like the dueling banjo's. I wonder what Kekel would do If Jesus told him to sell all his goods and give to the poor and follow him. I actually don't wonder, I know what he'd do because he's already doing it. He loves his money and his lifestyle the same way the Davis did. Kekel is beyond feeling and has no concern whatsoever about doing right and making things right. He's playing you and will continue to play you as long as you let him. Kekel knows that he is a hypocrite also, but don't expect him to confess or repent. He knows that holiness is a huge scam and that his wife and Mother in law are the worst offenders. Kekel knows that his immediate family have broken all the rules while the church members have lived under the letter of the ntcc law. Kekel plays people and uses the psychology that he learned from Davis to manipulate people and bind them with heavy burdens that are grievous to be born while he laughs all the way to the bank.

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  24. Kekel complains, ( let us get the violins): "anniversary days to ourselves canceled( wow, really sad)
    Flights changed, plans going to pot over and over again but hey that's the work of God (omg, tears on my eyes)
    This is what kekel calls " enduring" for the work of God!
    Really? What a joke!
    Apparently he hasn't seen the true sacrifices that preachers make.
    I can't imagine having to go on vacation when you are living it in that mansion.
    The joke's on the ntccers still following them around like little puppies trying to be on their good graces.
    Where were they when the widows needed them.
    I remember seeing a pic of ms ramirez
    after she moved in with her sister and her belongings were in a few cardboard boxes scattered on the small room because she didn't have nowhere to go after years and years of laboring for the org. Christmases away from family, friends and kekel thinks that what he and tk go through are real sacrifices!
    What about preachers having to sleep on floors and their kids going hungry because there's no food, etc, etc. Canceling dinner plans? What a joke!
    Changing plane tickets?
    And this folks is the new and improved leadership of ntcc.

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  25. There was no such thing as a vacation in the NTCC of old, unless it was for board members and other forms of human scum. I remember when RW announced the vacation scheme that "didn't all pan out." I think Mike should have said "didn't pan out AT ALL." RW stated that an overseer would come and assume the work for a week if you were in a civilian work, or two weeks for servicemen's homes. You would be required to LEAVE TOWN (no one addressed where we were supposed to get the money to afford to take these mythical vacations, but we all shouted and danced anyway that "Pastor" loved us and cared so much for us that he was going to make sure we had some time off). I was pastoring a serviceman's home at the time, and no one ever relieved me for a couple weeks, and I have yet to hear of a single person who was the beneficiary of this new policy. I didn't take a vacation for sixteen years, beyond sneaking a quick side trip to see family during a conference. Once we slept in our car overnight at Yellowstone on the way back to Washington and got to see Old Faithful. The closest thing to a real vacation happened when we were moving to Philadelphia and blew a timing belt. It took a week to get the car fixed, and since I was so broke I bought a tent and some groceries and hitchhiked with my family to Pactola Reservoir in the Black Hills of South Dakota. We had the best time, until the shackles snapped back in place.

    When I grew up, my parents took us to all kinds of cool places, so I know what it's like to have a decent childhood. My kids weren't so lucky; they might as well have lived in a North Korean prison camp when it came to recreation. What they were put through is the thing that energizes me to continue to denounce this gang of thieves and abusers. Adults should never have to endure NTCC, but the kids always had it the worst. NTCC is a despicable organization that is so spiritually bankrupt it has no problem masquerading as a "holiness" church while simultaneously discounting and frustrating the most important teachings of Jesus. Wake up--they're liars and scoundrels. Cut your losses and flee; the only regret you will have is that you didn't act sooner.

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  26. "Kekel complains, ( let us get the violins): "anniversary days to ourselves canceled( wow, really sad)"

    Don't be jealous anon! They had to carry a cross in order to choose between filet mignon and lobster. When will you learn the meaning of sacrifice anon!?

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  27. The almost 15 yrs I was in, all of my vacations were used up going to those dang gone conferences. They had a way of relating everything to a measurement of how worldly you would be or how you did not love God if you did it. Of course, that doesn't apply to the elite leadership we were "called to follow". I heard Goerge Jordan say on the front porch of the St. Louis church back in oooohhhhhh, mid 90's, "If the apostle paul were ressurected and building a church across the street, you would still be required to come to this church because this is where God wants you". When I heard it, I was like, huh? really? wow!

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  28. Anon said"

    "The joke's on the ntccers still following them around like little puppies trying to be on their good graces"

    Boy do I remember those days, and they eat it up to, they actually expect it due to their high opinion of themselves. It is sickening to think they are actually still quoting scriptures like "touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm", Pay ministers a "double honor" and all those scriptures that put them on a pedestal and you as their little slaves ready at a moments notice to get in line to shine their shoes. It is so liberating and wonderful to live without needing the approval of someone who thinks I can't get to heaven without them. If you are reading this and currentlty in the NTCC, I challenge you to put this theory to the test: Go to Mr. Mike Kekel and face him like the man or woman you are, and say to him, "Sir, I will be withholding my tithe and putting it in a seperate account while I study the bible as the Bareans and see if what is going on here in this organization is biblical" - can you do that? Can yo man up once and for all to those who you allow to Lord over you? Do it with confidence and without waiting for his approval, you TELL him what you are going to do, and then really do it. If Mr. kekel can respect that without being offended or ridiculing you then both you and Mr. kekel are on the right path. If Mr kekel cannot find it within himself to allow a saint of God to pray and read his bible to see if he is on the right path, as the Bareans in the bible did, then you are definitely on the right path. If you cannot do that, and you are being dealt with by the Spirit of God to do so, then you and Mr. kekel deserve each other.

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  29. Anonymous said:

    Don't be jealous anon! They had to carry a cross in order to choose between filet mignon and lobster. When will you learn the meaning of sacrifice anon!?

    DNA said:

    They had many more crosses to bear than that. Davis once said, "Going to the mall has got to be the hardest cross a man has ever bore". Their wives used to drag them along to go shopping at various places. Choosing the best looking women to clean Kekel's mansion was also a heavy cross to bear. Which expensive sports car to spend your tithe dollars on so that Kekel, Tanya and Grant could all roll in style was a pretty heavy cross to bear. Decorating their mansions with expensive antique furniture and selecting the right designer curtains to hang in on the windows surrounding their Jacuzzi was another cross. Davis had other crosses to bear besides going to the Mall. I'm sure he was in a huge battle over which million dollar Recreational Vehicle that he wanted to buy with all of your tithe dollars. Each year he had to bear a heavy cross when it came time to pick out his new Cadillac that he upgraded into.

    There were many other crosses that these hucksters had to bear also. Which cheating husbands and wives to move around from place to place. I'm sure the decision to move Philandering Phil to Graham was an agonizing decision to make. They executed dogs, committed adultery, molested children and abused children while spending your money on mansions, cars, guns, Rolex watches and diamond pinky rings. They bore so many crosses and dumped on every sincere person in the ntcc.

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  30. All I can say is no matter what, their secrets are now out there for all to read. They can no longer build a fence around the info they want protected. They have been exposed, now it's the members job to open their eyes.

    All it will take if for some preacher who is a bit down to read this blog and have his eyes opened. I just hope they don't spend decades in the org before they realize the scam going on.

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  31. I wonder why mk would write an answer to that fellow whoever he may be.
    It seems to me that he wanted to write such long answer to get some points across to the ntccers who read his blog.
    Nothing they do is for naught.
    The way that mk wrote is kind of weird because he says " pastor never taught"
    and that might be true, he never taught it but he alluded to it when he preached about "putting things before God"
    So it's all just psychological mumbo jumbo that he is throwing out there.
    Another thing that is weird is when at the end he writes: " I forgive you"
    That seems sarcastic and if he is not that he has a bigger problem for he is making himself as a better man than his predecessor rw, who we all heard say: "I can forgive but not forget" which is the same thing as not forgiving.

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  32. Another thing that I found very telling is that the guy who asked the question was addressing vacations in the ntcc it was mk who had to bring his dead father in law to the conversation because they have to blame somebody.
    I think that it's pretty good how mk shifted the question.
    If mk wants the leadership of the ntcc he needs to stop blaming dead people or the preachers, the buck stops with you mk.

    Stop blaming others mk!

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  33. MK has been throwing his father-in-law under the bus for years. Even when RWD was alive. There is a thread about it on another blog.

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  34. Anonymous said...
    I wonder why mk would write an answer to that fellow whoever he may be.

    DNA said:

    Kekel is just trying to justify himself. Any time you have to write an essay to respond to 2 small sentences, you've got some serious issues with your own insecurities. Kekel was definitely offended by that comment. When he could have been praying for lost souls, he spent his time justifying the vacations that he takes. I wish one of the ministers in the ntcc would challenge him on New Testament tithe. I guess they all love that dollar too much to realize that what they are doing is not even biblical.

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  35. That's his agenda now blaming this guy or the other as long as he keeps them in the org. He can't shield himself from the past failures of the ntcc with his excuse : "pastor never taught that"
    when there's hundreds of witnesses who not only witnessed it but also lived it.



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  36. DNA said
    "When he could have been praying for lost souls".

    That's funny, they would always say something like "you shouldn't chew your food more than 10 seconds, swallow it and go, souls are dying and going to hell" or "why would you want to call your parents on the holidays, when you could be praying for the lost".

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  37. Everything was urgent and a matter of life and death in the ntcc as we loyally performed every task they asked of us without questioning them. Because we were so caught up in the sensationalism of being part of such an exclusive group of God's only chosen ones, we didn't stop to look at the lives of the self proclaimed false prophets who endorsed their doctrines of devils. Everything was life or death, heaven or hell. Every time you did something questionable with your own money, like 'squandering' it on necessities for yourself when you could have been giving it to this offering or that offering; they would say, "I'd hate to be overweight when the rapture took place". Like Bryan shared about Jones pulling up in his new sports car jacking people up for eating Big Macs. Holiness or hell. Tithe or hell. Miss a church service and you are hell bound. Miss soul winning and you care about yourself more than other people. Say something that offends them and you are a gossiper and hell bound. Go to another church and you are being carried about with every wind of doctrine. Disobey your hireling pastor and you are of the devil. Fellowship with someone from another church and you are rejecting God's last move on planet earth. Talk to a member of the opposite sex without the permission of your pastor and you are sinning. Read your bible during preaching and you are disrespectful. Come worship with the ntcc and get your daily dose of double standards and learn to be a hypocrite so one day you can become an ntcc pastor and manipulate people for yourself.

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  38. My eyes have been enlightened this morning and last night while I was doing Google searches and came a cross a blog that exposes many factions of the Church of God. I understand now where Davis learned much of his teachings and false doctrines. He must have learned the psychology to play the people from this group of abusers before passing it along to Kekel. Many of these churches don't fellowship with each other and many are forbidden to. They have a "no contact" policy that drove a 30 year old woman to commit suicide. You see, the woman's brother was suspended from the church for 6 months after he was caught and ratted out by the churches spy network for posting an inappropriate remark on Facebook. During his six month suspension he decided not to attend that abusive church any more and because of that, his parents were excommunicated from the church for allowing him to live in their house. The sister was caught up in the middle of this and was encouraged to stay in this abusive organization. The parents were devastated that they were unable to see their daughter for three years at which time she committed suicide being overwhelmed with grief and her body was sent C.O.D. to her parents wrapped in a plastic bag inside a metal container. Another man was forced into celibacy and not allowed to date or have a relationship. At sixty years old he is single and shares that he has had the barrel of his riffle pointed at his head several times with his fingers poised to squeeze the trigger and the only thing that stopped him was his unwillingness to leave his cats without someone to care for them. One man recently was sentenced to life in prison for sexually raping and tormenting to young girls aged 6 and 10.

    This organization is also a tithe hungry and money grubbing group. They command couples to share the most intimate sexual details of their lives before and after marriage so they can use that information to destroy marriages and split up families if they feel the need to do so. They teach separation and remarriage policies that compel ministers to pry into the couples personal sexual histories so they can gather ammunition so they can hold it over their heads. They have a huge cult compound and lot's of real estate. Members of the churches are not allowed to fellowship with members of other churches in the same organization. The ntcc is the bastard child of this organization and is every bit as wicked as many of them are.

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  39. Many ntcc churches are dubbing themselves as being "different" from the ntcc of days gone by.
    Yes, they have charismatic sing alongs
    and have barbecues, picnics , Christmas plays but they still have the same tactics. They might love you but Like one preacher said:
    " don't give them the bone until they do the dance"

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  40. Clearly Kekel must have been both ambitious and opportunistic from the get go. I wonder if he ever bought in or just saw the "light" concerning the power one could wield under the right circumstances. It almost seems like he was on the take from the get go.

    Step one: give a huge some of money
    Step two: get Davis' daughter
    Step three: get a title
    Step four: get dirt on the org
    Step five: abuse abuse abuse
    Step six: Take over

    Maybe Davis was a monster but this guy could truly be a sociopath as well.

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  41. No doubt, Kekel was on the take from the get go. Has he ever been saved? Not sure, only God knows, but he quickly devised a plan to work his way into the money stream and got a few cheap feels of the founders daughter along the way. Most people that know Kekel or have shared what they know of him seem to agree that he has always been lacking in the spiritual attributes department. Nobody has ever described him as spiritual or having love for the brethren outside of a few love bombs that were lobbed to reel them in like sucker fish. Davis surrounded himself with people that would ignore all of his sexual proclivities and adhere to his double standards. Ashmore pretends like he has no knowledge of any of the specifics regarding abuse, but he had to have known what was going on. You don't just sit back and not notice how 15 and 16 year old girls are getting married to men in their mid twenties. You don't just sit back and watch Davis blasting people for watching TV while he had one in his own house. I can assure you that if Ken and Julie knew that Davis had a TV, then just about every board member knew he had one also, but they ignored the double standards. Every single one of the board members were close enough to Davis to see the double standards and ignore them. That is why Kekel spent so many hours trying to explain Davis' actions away. If everything is done above the table and all of the rules apply to everyone, then you shouldn't have to make excuses. You are right about Kekel weaseling his way into his position by using those six steps. It's a sickening process but Kekel has the stomach for it and apparently he's become so accustomed to it, that it all come natural to him.

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  42. What or which churches are dubbing themselves as different from the old NTCC? I'm very interested to know who's pastoring.

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  43. Not sure if any churches are dubbing themselves as different from the old ntcc, however, there are many that are different. Look at the recent post we did called, "It used to be a sin". There are pictures and videos that will show you how much the ntcc has changed. If you ask them I'm sure they will have lame excuses like, "That was never a sin". It might not have been a sin, but people sure were willing to deprive themselves and their families from normal activities to please a narcissistic control-mongering hypocrite.

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  44. The Worldwide Church of God has nothing to do with the PCOG from which RW emerged. It was founded by Herbert W. Armstrong and is a mutation of the Seventh Day Adventists. Definitely screwball, though, and similar in many ways to NTCC.

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  45. While I did confuse this group with the PCOG's they have a lot in common. They treat people much like the ntcc and if you read the testimonies they are much like the ntcc in a lot of ways. I guess their acronyms were a little confusing because they were talking about many of the splinter groups which use similar acronyms like POG and PCOG. I know the Pentecostal Church of God preached outward holiness and tithe, but not sure about their history of abuse. Anybody who subjects themselves to that kind of holiness or hell and tithe or hell preaching and control suffers a certain level of abuse.

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  46. Brady and Gronk are headed back to the Super Bowl.

    Fortunately for you Patriot haters my Vikes are going to kill them!!!

    Mike

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  47. Good luck with that, Mike. Hopefully if Min. goes they'll play the Broncos.

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  48. You'd think that mk would bring better examples of " putting God first" than the ones he listed.
    I mean if that is what he sees as burden my god he really is missing the mark.
    How is he expecting to "lead the people to the promise land" for goodness sake!
    So you mean to tell me that missing a dinner is such a burden that you think is worthy to list as "sacrificing" for the work of The Lord?


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  49. Anonymous said:

    "So you mean to tell me that missing a dinner is such a burden that you think is worthy to list as "sacrificing" for the work of The Lord?"

    DNA said:

    Missing an Anniversary dinner with Tanya must be a huge sacrifice. I'm sure "the Lord" will make up for it as the tithe dollars keep rolling in. Mike has lived a life full of sacrifices in that mansion in Graham. The next time Kekel starts to opine about the hardships he has to endure, ask him if you can take a tour of his house and his garage, and then let him take a tour of your efficiency apartment that you are forced to rent because you're loving and understanding church forces you to find employment that will accommodate bankers hours so you can avoid splitting hell wide open by not missing any church services and after paying tithe it's all you can afford. Kekel is a con artist and a swindling huckster.

    The sad part is that most ntcc'rs that read about Kekel's sacrifices will continue to push wheelbarrows full of cash to Kekel's doorstep. He doesn't appreciate or acknowledge any of your sacrifices and he never has. If Kekel ever want's to get right with God, he would have to repent after the manner of Zaccaeus, who said: "if I have taken any thing from any man by false accusation, I restore him fourfold." According to Strong's, False accusation means to exact money wrongfully. When Kekel preaches tithe or hell, which is false doctrine, he is exacting money from people wrongfully. But Kekel would never do that, because he doesn't want to be right with God. He just wants to be rich.

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  50. Kieth Gandy is probably the biggest kisser in the NTCC hands down he wins the prize. The control comes from his lust to be a little Davis.

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  51. I pay my tithe and I give offerings...and I am blessed....SO, if it is over with?? why am I so blessed? And what it better than this?? Nope, I just plan to keep on keeping doing what works, and I have a pastor too. Was even blessed at the gas tank too, was 1.79

    Buddy

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  52. What buddy said is exactly what is wrong with org. Solid proof that they pay tithe for the purpose of someday being blessed. Sporting some serious shallow thinking there buddy. "SO, if it is over with?? why am I so blessed"? Well, utilizing your measuring stick, then the Mormons and catholics are "blessed" along with you.

    "Was even blessed at the gas tank" - you are seriously shallow in your thinking. Have you ever seen a starving child or pictures of tortured Christians? Are they blessed to? I guess God was busy making sure you got a good deal on your gas tank and didn't have time to save people from the most horrid tortures in the name of Christ.

    It's kind of like the supposed Christian who is praying the God will help him find the keys to the new Benz in the driveway and then rejoices about how blessed they are (for paying their tithe they suppose) but then God overlooks a starving nation of children and refuges who are Christian. You are not blessed son, you are deceived. The moment tragedy comes into your tithe paying life you will have to learnt that you can't pay God off for your "blessings". You were blessed at the gas pump because of oil prices and world market rumblings.

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  53. I am not talking about those groups. I am a christian. I am blessed and I give "out of love" to the one that "gave his son for me" and I am blessed, and you can not change that.

    Well, you can think that about the gas, regardless, I am still blessed. If I have needs, He will provide, He always and he always will!!

    Got you Donald!
    Buddy

    PS: Hope you get a job soon...smile

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  54. Hey there Buddy,

    So you only serve God so you can be blessed? I agree with Bryan, you are so shallow. You have no idea of what serving a living God entailes. Get into your King James Bible and read the words in red. It appears you skipped that part of the Bible. You need to learn what Christianity is and what it is to be saved.

    You have such shallow thinking. "If I give money to God, God will give me blessing of money". You have some real stinkin' thinkin' going on.

    One of the main things (among many) that angered me in NTCC was that their so called Christianity involved such selfishness.

    To be a Christian and love God with all your heart means that you expect NOTHING in return, not even salvation. Until you can understand that concept and your pastor understands that concept you don't love or serve God, you love and serve Santa Claus.

    Also, if you think Don either having a job or not having a job is a sign of God's blessings and Don's salvation you are clueless.

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  55. Buddy said:

    "Got you Donald!"

    DNA said:

    You were responding to a comment written by Bryan Hill, and not me. I go by Don, but if you want to call me Donald that's fine also. Davis used to do that to people to see if he could push their buttons. I'm all growd up now and it's a petty thing to stress over. Lot's of love there. But the fact is, sadly to say, that the jokes on you. 99% of the time when an ntcc'r gets on the blogs they speak about things in a way that hurts their own cause. Kekel does that all the time. We are glad that you are commenting on this blog because you do more to make our case than your own. The fact that you will not share your true identity gives many of our readers an insight to your true character and fear that you have of your loving leaders finding out who you are. Perhaps you are Wayne Eury; we heard that he used to go by the alias: buddy. But whoever you are, it doesn't really matter because you are regurgitating the same things that all ntcc members are taught to regurgitate, and there is no substance to any of it.

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  56. Hey buddy, if that's your name, have you given much thought to your claim that God has "blessed you at the gas tank" because the prices of Gas have gone down to $1.79? The adulterers and whore mongers also paid $1.79 at the same pump. Do they pay tithe? They are getting the same discount as you are. How much gas did you put in your tank, 10 or 20 gallons? How much money did you save, 5 bucks? I paid a little over $2.00 the last time I purchased gas, but that was weeks ago and I still have over a half tank, and drive a comfortable, spacious vehicle that doesn't lack in power. I don't pay tithe to people like Kekel, who are disgustingly, filthy rich and could care less about the poor and down trodden, but my life is full of very rich blessings. I am very grateful to God for every thing I got, but I don't consider a drop in the price of gas to be a result of how great I am for my own super spirituality.

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  57. So, buddy, tell me, do you just pay tithe because they tell you to, or is there a scripture that you use to justify it? What other things do you do that are not supported by scripture? Do you care where your tithe dollars go? Do you think that God blesses you because you pay tithe? Do you even know where your tithe dollars go? Look at the pictures at the top of our blog. That is where your tithe dollars are going. What if you were to stop paying your tithe, buddy? What do you think would happen? Will you die and go to hell? Can you find a scripture that supports that line of thought? Didn't think so. You pay tithe because you are told to and if you were to stop paying tithe, you would be treated as a sinner. Did Jesus ever require his followers to pay tithe? Did Jesus ever Jack anyone up for not giving 10% of their money to their money to him? He was feeding them and saving them, shouldn't they have been obligated to pay him their tithe? There were people being blessed all around Jesus. They were being healed and fed, and loved, but it had nothing to do with them paying tithe. They were blessed because they loved Jesus and they were blessed because they believed in him. You ntcc'rs love your money and think that everything rotates around your monetary giving, but you have totally missed the mark. That is why the ntcc is known as an abusive cult. Everything in your life hinges around how much you give and if you stop giving and if you stop paying your tithe you are no longer considered to be a Christian. Your shallowness speaks much louder than your words, buddy.

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  58. As for my employment, wouldn't you like to know. I can tell you this, we are not hurting for cash and we are not on food stamps or welfare. The Rumor mill must be churning away, because you are not the first one to be worrying about my employment. I don't pay tithe to make a preacher rich but I can tell you that we are living much better than we ever did in the ntcc while we were paying tithe. The blessings of God are not so minuscule that the only thing we have to rejoice about is a 30 cent drop in gas prices. We are better off financially and spiritually. We no longer have to try to impress some religious hypocrite like buddy that thinks God's blessings are contingent upon how much you give to a cult. You can have your organization and your tithe payers. We are happy with what God is doing in our own lives for free. It's already been purchased. Bought and paid for with his own blood. Why do people cheapen God's free gift by placing a price tag on it?

    I actually feel sorry for people like buddy. We used to think just like he does and we were living in the gall of bitterness towards everyone that didn't think like we did. That's a sad life to live. I really hope you find real salvation some day, buddy, that isn't measured by how many dollars you drop in an offering plate. That's a sad way to live. You are not only being deprived of living a functional life but you are being deceived into believing that you can buy your way into heaven. Paul said, "What is my reward then? Verily that, when I preach the gospel, I may make the gospel of Christ without charge, that I abuse not my power in the gospel." 1 Cor 9:14 Without charge is translated to costless or without expense by Strongs.

    Paul's reward wasn't a discount on gas after he fleeced the flock for 10% of everything they owned, but his reward was that after he preached, he made the gospel of Christ without charge. Why? Because he didn't want to abuse his power in the gospel, like Kekel and Davis. You can have your religion that is purchased at 10% cash, but salvation is of the Lord and it's free to those who believe in Him and not the letter of the law that requires tithe, animal sacrifices and circumcision. Thank God that true believers are not money grubbing hypocrites.

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  59. Love that 7:08 am comment Don and Ange!

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  60. Buddy,

    I appreciate you commenting regardless of what I might think of the content. Glad to see someone in the Org with some semblance of "fight" in them.

    Mike

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  61. Hey buddy, simple question for you and the elite of NTCC.

    Which tithing example in the bible should I follow?

    I will wait for your answer.

    Thanks

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  62. I am simply asking which example in the bible should I follow for paying tithe?

    Simple question for the elite of NTCC who have been living off of the tithe for the last 30 years.

    I will wait for answer, just a simple question. Ok I will wait.

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  63. Anon said:

    "Buddy,

    I appreciate you commenting regardless of what I might think of the content. Glad to see someone in the Org with some semblance of "fight" in them."


    This is so revealing of the NTCC elite. They will not bother their peaceful country living with answering the masses, they leave it up to some loner to wrestle with the scriptures and defend their religion. You see, the elite think so highly of themselves that they can't be bothered with anything they can't control.

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  64. WOW, listen to the lies in this Creflo Dollar teaching on tithe, even to the point of having his congregation sign a contract promising to tithe in order to keep the blessings flowing. This happened in St Louis back in the 90's when at a communion service the preacher tied the communion with a cash pledge promised from the congregation by name and threatened that if we did not keep our vows then we would of kept the communion in disobedience and heaped the judgements of God upon us. Man was I played back then.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8-V1gvyb_c

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  65. Well, I will not bother you any more, 4-5 years ago you and yours was and were writing this same stuff. So I will be back in 4-5 years to see if you have changed.

    No longer your Buddy....

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    Replies
    1. The Truth never changes. And you were never our Buddy.

      Delete
  66. Buddy said:

    "No longer your Buddy...."

    Again, how revealing of the internal nature of the NTCC. If you don't play their little game they won't like you. Kinda like my grandchildren when they disown their little friend when they catch them playing with another friend. "Play with me or I won't like you any more and I won't be your friend"!

    Silly rabbit, tricks are for kids.

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  67. There's a better chance that buddy will be the one changing, I mean look at the statistics, easy isn't it.

    All I did was ask which example of paying tithe I should follow in the bible, simple question for those who have carved out a lively hood from it, isn't it?

    Again, I am asking for a example from the bible, is that to much to ask? This is a Bible College and church, right?

    I will just wait.

    Thank you

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  68. Scripture of the day:

    Deu 26:12

    "When thou hast made an end of tithing all the tithes of thine increase the third year, which is the year of tithing, and hast given it unto the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless, and the widow, that they may eat within thy gates, and be filled;"

    The ntcc teaches that tithe is 10% cash out of your paychecks. In the ntcc, you give that money to a professional religious huckster that does not share it with the stranger, the fatherless and the widow, because they do not care about the stranger, the fatherless or the widow. The children of Israel would bring the tithe of their increase, which was agricultural, not monetary, and the purpose of it was to so that the Levite, the stranger, the fatherless and the widow would be able to eat and be filled. This tithe would be "paid" on the third year.

    Isn't it weird how the ntcc has carried tithe forward from the Old Testament but tithe in the ntcc doesn't even slightly resemble tithe in the Old Testament? Tithe in the ntcc is mandatory and if you don't pay it you are considered hell bound. So how did the ntcc come up with it's formula for how tithe is to be paid and what your tithe dollars are to be spent on? They claim to be a bible believing organization but they have never risen to the occasion when asked for supporting scriptures of their beliefs on tithe. Even though the Old Testament law is not required to be kept due to the fact that it was replaced by a new covenant which is called the New Testament, the ntcc fraudulently presents tithe to their believers as a mandatory sacrament that doesn't even slightly resemble any model found anywhere in the bible.

    Instead of giving 10% of your fruits and vegetables they want your cash. Try bringing them some agricultural products next time your tithe is due and see how unthankful and ungrateful they are towards you. Instead of bringing your tithe to them every third year, they want it every week or every time you get paid. They'll even escort you to an ATM machine on payday so they can get their greasy hands on your cash as soon as the machine spits it out. The money doesn't go towards feeding the Levites, the stranger, the fatherless or the widow either. It goes towards whatever that ntcc hireling wants to spend it on with the exception of the big chunk, larger than 10%, that goes to Graham so the high priest of the ntcc can live like King Farouk who was enamoured of the glamorous royal lifestyle. Although he already had thousands of acres of land, dozens of palaces, and hundreds of cars, the youthful king often travelled to Europe for grand shopping sprees, earning the ire of many of his subjects. It is said that he ate 600 oysters a week. His personal vehicle was a red 1947 Bentley Mark VI, with coachwork by Figoni et Falaschi; he dictated that, other than the military jeeps which made up the rest of his entourage, no other cars were to be painted red. In 1951, he bought the pear-shaped 94-carat Star of the East Diamond and a fancy-coloured oval-cut diamond from jeweler Harry Winston.(wikipedia)

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  69. You guys do know that the word tithe means "tenth" don't you? This is where the 10% comes in.

    ReplyDelete
  70. Anonymous said...
    You guys do know that the word tithe means "tenth" don't you? This is where the 10% comes in.

    DNA said:

    It appears that you are still dodging the question at hand. Let's try to make this question so simple that a 1st grader can understand it and then maybe someone can give us an answer. What scripture in the New Testament tells Christians that they must give tithe (or 10% of every paycheck or increase) to a preacher? That is a pretty simple question. If you don't know the bible well enough to answer that question than please ask your ntcc pastor. Hopefully he won't jack you up too bad when he is not able to find the scriptures, (because they don't exist).

    If you have received a new revelation on tithe that doesn't count. Do you understand the difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament? We'll even explain that for you if you'd like. The Old Testament was a covenant with God and the children of Israel that they couldn't live up to. There was nobody in the old testament that was as spiritual as Davis who could not remember the last time they sinned. So not if, but when people sinned, they would bring animals to the Priests who were of the Levitical order and they would kill the animal and sprinkle the blood upon the altar. This was how sin was dealt with in the Old Testament. These priests that performed these sacraments did not have their own land or inheritance, so the people would bring their tithes to them. Tithe was paid every third year and was paid in the form of agricultural goods.

    The New Testament doesn't require you to bring sacrifices and tithe to those Levites who performed the service of the Lord. Neither does the New Testament require you to pay tithes or 10% to anyone. Circumcision is no longer a requirement either, however if you are in the ntcc and you don't want to hinder the work of the Lord than you might want to get yourself neutered.

    The hypocrites were trying to get Paul to live by the letter of the law and finding fault with the Gentile Christians for not being circumcised. Paul brought this before the elders of the church and this is what they said: "Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, AND KEEP THE LAW: to whom we gave no such commandment:" Acts 15:24. (read on further if you'd like to learn more)

    The reason that the ntcc wants your tithe is because they would rather fleece the flock than tend to your spiritual needs. Giving cheerfully out of your own will has nothing to do with mandatory tithing and the condemnation that they heap upon you if you do not obey their false doctrine.

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  71. Anonymous said...
    You guys do know that the word tithe means "tenth" don't you? This is where the 10% comes in.

    I understand, but what old testament example should I follow in a life time of tithe paying to NTCC? Because there are no new testament examples. Can a church that has a bible college answer my simple question?

    ReplyDelete
  72. It is like Buddy said, it works.

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  73. Anonymous said...
    It is like Buddy said, it works


    Yea, for the upline, just like Amway, those on top get paid.

    ReplyDelete
  74. "It works"
    I know people who are rich and have never tithe and still God blesses them, or maybe it's the " devil" but the thing is that it's almost as buddy is superstitious about this matter if tithing.
    I recall many ntcc preachers telling the congregations and even rw @ conferences that " god had a way of getting his tithe."
    We would get out of service with damnation over our heads thinking that one way or another if we didn't give tithe and offerings god was gonna strike us and take something in order to bring us into submission and give.
    I mean how many times we heard somebody getting a hospital bill or having car troubles or whatever and ntcc would attribute that to "god getting his tithe"
    I would ask buddy to not get all proud about it because god might just strike him and take his job away! lol

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  75. Too bad buddy did not mention giving to the poor.

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  76. "buddy is superstitious"

    Buddy is also religious.

    ReplyDelete
  77. You seem to struggle giving to God. Let me explain something to you by sharing a few scriptures with you.

    Psalm 24:1 " The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof: the world, and they that dwell therein"
    Psalm 50:12 "If I were hungry, I would not tell thee: for the world is mine, and the fulness thereof."
    I Cor. 10:26 " for the earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof"
    Colossians 1:16 "For by him were all things created,that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him."

    Daniel 4:30-37 The king spake, and said, Is not this great Babylon, that I have built for the house of the kingdom by the might of my power, and for the honour of my majesty?
    While the word was in the king's mouth, there fell a voice from heaven, saying, O king Nebuchadnezzar, to thee it is spoken; The kingdom is departed from thee.

    And they shall drive thee from men, and thy dwelling shall be with the beasts of the field: they shall make thee to eat grass as oxen, and seven times shall pass over thee, until thou know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will.
    The same hour was the thing fulfilled upon Nebuchadnezzar: and he was driven from men, and did eat grass as oxen, and his body was wet with the dew of heaven, till his hairs were grown like eagles' feathers, and his nails like birds' claws.
    And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:
    And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?
    At the same time my reason returned unto me; and for the glory of my kingdom, mine honour and brightness returned unto me; and my counsellors and my lords sought unto me; and I was established in my kingdom, and excellent majesty was added unt Now I Nebuchadnezzar praise and extol and honour the King of heaven, all whose works are truth, and his ways judgment: and those that walk in pride he is able to abase.

    Everything belongs to God and without him you would have nothing so to give unto God should never be a problem. Yes God may let you get away right now. Some may have to answer for it in this life, some on their death bed, and some before the judgment in heaven.

    Deut. 8:17-18 " And thou say in thine heart, My power and the might of mine hand hath gotten me this wealth.
    But thou shalt remember the Lord thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

    Luke 12:16-21
    "And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:
    And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?
    And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.
    And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.
    But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?
    So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God."

    I pray that you will think about these things as you choose to live your own way. Your sin can keep you from heaven. Remember the pleasure of sin only last for a season.

    After sharing all this I feel like it is time for an alter call to go to the Lord in prayer.

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    1. Some things that some claim I don't believe, BUT, there are true claims of abuse of pastoral athority and many other coruption which I have witnessed. But can not prove. So dispite the thithe debate, many preachers both great and small are guilty of bad conduct.

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  78. You are side stepping the question that we asked. None of the Old Testament scriptures that you have shared answer Bryan's question either. What we asked has nothing to do with giving. You need to quote these scriptures to Kekel and the ntcc royalty that live like Nebuchadnezzer and the man that tore down his barns to build bigger barns. I love it when you ntcc'rs try to get super spiritual and play bible baseball because you strike out every single time.

    We were specifically asking about tithe, because the ntcc preaches that if you do not pay tithe that you are not right with God. This is false doctrine and has nothing to do with free will giving. You are like the Pharisee that stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. (Luke 18:11) What you do is for show and has nothing to do with what we asked you to explain.

    The reason you do this is because you know there is no scripture whatsoever in either Testament that commands Gentiles to pay tithe. The reason you feel it's time for an altar call is because you are doling out condemnation to others when you should be taking a look at your own life. You assume that giving to the ntcc is equal to giving to God, while the bible says: "He that oppresseth the poor to increase his riches, and he that giveth to the rich, shall surely come to want." Prov 22:16 Kekel is the rich religious leader that commands people to pay tithe and give in offerings while condemning those who don't to Hell. You ignore the corruption that is taking place right under your own nose. Do you think that God is blind to what is going on in the ntcc? Not sure who you are, because none of you are man enough to leave your name, but if you are a Pastor and you teach tithe or hell, you are misleading people. You are also using your office to build a family owned business that beguiles unstable souls by convincing them to give so much that they can not even provide the essentials for their own families. The bible says that you are worse than an infidel if you don't provide for your family. There are so many people that have testified that they were too broke in the ntcc to buy clothing or food or shelter.

    Kekel sure hasn't suffered through all this poverty. He's living large because of the lies that are being propagated from ntcc pulpits across the land. You do need to go to the altar because you are part of it. You are not content to wallow in your own filth but you are hell bent on dragging those who have escaped back into it. Misery loves company. The ntcc is so quick to judge others for their lack of support while they throw rocks from the from their glass houses, while raking in the riches that they have not earned.

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  79. You don't know us, Anonymous and you have no idea what giving to God even means. Ange and I both sacrificed our share to the ntcc while we were contributing to sinner Grant's private school education fund. Ange and her now deceased husband lived off of a 40 dollar a week grocery budget so that they could pay their tithe and stay right in the eyes of Davis and Kekel while they were pulling down their mansions to build bigger mansions for themselves. I was giving large amounts to every cause a pastor could dream up and doing it thinking that the offerings were going to the work of God, while my peers were getting married, buying houses and new cars and saving for their futures. Little did I know that Davis and Kekel were using people like me to become millionaires. I was giving so much to the ntcc that as an E-6, I was living from paycheck to paycheck. How many times did an ntcc pastor tell preach the same condemnation that you are preaching to get another buck out of me? It wasn't until 14 years later I found out that Davis and Kekel were storing up treasures on this earth, like million dollar Mansions, Million dollar Recreational vehicles, Quarter million dollar sports cars, Upgrades to their mansions, Jacuzzi and hot tubs, and every thing their soul lusted after. You are welcome to attempt to explain their excess if you wish but please don't bring your self righteous attitude and preaching into this forum while you are dripping with hypocrisy. Your own words are an affront to Christ because you think that God's love and eternal life can be purchased by paying tithe to a bunch of swindling hucksters. Please get off your high horse and explain what scriptures you use to justify tithe or hell doctrine.

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  80. Good Job anonymous at telling them like it is.

    I want to address the question you all keep bring up about them tell you where the money goes. They don't owe you an explanation. It is like a father saying he isn't going to pay child support unless the mother says how the money is spent and proves it is being spent on the child. A judge isn't going to make a mother do that or allow a father to stop paying. I know this because my first wife left me to go back home. She wanted sin and a husband that would turn a blind eye to it. God has blessed me with a God fearing wife now who loves the work of the Lord.

    I don't think they are misspending the money. Even if I did God called me to this church and it needs supporting so I obey with giving. No matter what happens here on earth, my focus is on heaven and hearing God say "Well Done Thou Good and Faithful Servant". Each one of us will one day have to answer to God.

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    1. There are many things that I disagree on this page what some claim. But I will say many other claims are true though. In which I have personaly experienced. Many preachers guilty of bad conduct, arogance, favoritism, abuse of athority, control, yet they get away with. Yes its happened and is still is.

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  81. I have to admit I'm glad some NTCC'ers have some guts to come on this board and explain themselves. Nothing wrong with that.

    I may disagree with some of the stuff said on both sides of the issue but in the end I think the money is going to some bad people and that's the bottom line for me. If I knew these people were supporting their elderly/old ministers/poor/and so on I might not have it in for them.

    The mansions, luxury vehicles, vacations... It's just an obvious sham in my opinion which of course is a fact.

    Mike

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  82. Oh, I almost forgot... Since there appears to be about 3 people from the NTCC commenting at this time can you please give me an explanation as to why the major player of most of your doctrine left and is now calling the NTCC a cult and you its slaves? Ashmore was by far the most esteemed preacher after Davis.

    I'd like to know your thoughts on the matter.

    Mike

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  83. Living In Truth said:
    "I want to address the question you all keep bring up"

    Well sir, though your dialogue is more than welcomed I have to point out that you still IN FACT have not addressed either question:

    1) where is the money going and why not to the poor.?

    2) Which biblical example in the O.T. should we follow in regards to paying tithe because there are none in the N.T.?

    Further more you said:
    "Good Job anonymous at telling them like it is".

    If you think anonymous quoting a few scriptures about Nebuchadnezzar and the others are "telling us like it is", I have to tell you, the scriptures are ill suited to address a false doctrine you and others prescribe to. Your no longer dealing with a young G.I. who will swallow both both hook, line and sinker without challenging the consistency of scripture as it is presented.

    My question to you and all of the NTCC elite, which biblical example of tithe paying should I follow?

    SOME FACTS ABOUT THE CHRISTIAN TITHING DOCTRINE:


    1.Abraham never tithed on his own personal property or livestock.

    2.Jacob wouldn’t tithe until God blessed him first.

    3.Only Levite priests could collect tithes, and there are no Levite priests today.

    4.Only food products from the land were tithable.

    5.Money was never a tithable commodity.

    6.Christian converts were never asked to tithe anything to the Church.

    7.Tithing in the Church first appears centuries after completion of the Bible.

    The Apostle Paul said:

    "Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give, not grudgingly, or of NECESSITY: for GOD LOVETH A CHEERFUL GIVER." (II Cor.. 9:7).

    And if tithing was Gods money and he is gonna get it one way or another as NTCC historically proposed, then Paul had no business not receiving it and would have an obligation to address it in all the Gentile churches. As you should know being a student of the bible, it is not there. If it was then all the churches in Asia would of been paying tithe and funneling it up to Paul and he could of had his own jet and mansion but we find just the opposite:

    1 Corinthians 4:11,12
    "Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; and labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it:"

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  84. So how does RW find biblical foundational material to require tithe and teach that your not Christian if you don't pay it? Son, what you have here is a business plan, look at Amway and how the down-line supports the up-line and the up-line feeds off the down-line. This is similare to the NTCC model which is why you got Johnson, Olson, RW, Kekel and others who are living high on the hog while you beat the streets for more healthy G.I.'s who have a steady paycheck and will do what you tell them to do. Perfect product really and ingenious of RW's part.

    Nobody is asking you not to give to a ministry that is fulfilling the will of God. what is being asked is that NTCC comes clean with some if its heavy handed doctrines that serve the elite thru scripture taught in error and lacking consistency. It would help if you looked at the the organizations that are out there that do hold organizations to financial accountability and the purpose they serve. It is nothing but pure pride for a prevailing stance given by the NTCC elite that suggests church members don't have a right to ask where the money is going, and for you to be regurgitating it shows you have been played by the psychology that runs rampant behind the scenes and in the undercurrents of the org.

    If the Bareans were more noble for searching the scriptures whether what the Apostles were saying were so then would it be inconsistent to hold accountable those who claim to be handling "God's money" and if there are no issues then why the secrecy?

    Acts 17:11
    "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

    Will you search the scriptures, not just on tithe but other subjects of concern you are presently participating in.

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  85. the child support example was a terrible analogy. even the government tells the taxpayer where their money is allocated. ntcc is in the business of God, n'est-ce pas? most non-profit businesses are completely open with their supporters.God never instructed followers to give blindly, but to be a good steward!

    parishioners choose to blindly give because the fear of man. they are afraid to confront the leadership.

    buddy, if you saw your pastor doing anything illegal would you turn him in to the proper authorities or keep mum?



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  86. There seems to be a false equivalentcy in the King Nebuchadnezzer story and the mental gymnastics to tie unrelated scripture together to say, "God is gonna get his money one way or another. If you don't give your tithe you don't get into heaven." If that is how your god works, I don't want to know your god.

    Buddy and Living in Trust, I am way too mature in Christ to fall for such scriptural gymnastics.

    I am blessed and how I share my blessings is only between me and my God. I have never expected God to bless me or expected Him to grant me salvation because of what I have done for others. Salvation is a Gift He freely gives and He judges the true intention of the heart when granting salvation.

    I share my bounty out of my love for my fellowman be they saved or not with no strings attached. For my giving, I EXPECT NOTHING IN RETURN HERE ON EARTH OR IN HEAVEN!!! I do it purely out of my love for Christ!

    Like I said before, until you and your preachers understand and learn how to love and serve God and expect NOTHING in return, including salvation, you are not serving God you are only serving a Santa Claus. Until you understand that concept, you serve man not the living God.

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  87. Buddy, Anonymous, Living in Truth,

    The Nebuchadnezzer verses and other unrelated verses that were combined with Olympic style scriptural gymnastics concerning tithes are ludicrous. "My god will get his money from you one way or another and if you don't pay up here on earth you can kiss heaven goodbye" is insanity at its best. Guess what? I don't want to know your god!

    Unlike you my giving is between my living God and me. I EXPECT NOTHING FROM MY GOD, NOT EVEN SALVATION! I serve Him out of pure love not for what He has done for me but because He is my Creator. His salvation is freely given and He judges the true intention of one's heart in granting it.

    I live my life with His love and ask myself, "Am I doing this thing for praise or do I expect nothing in return- both from man and from God?" When I expect nothing in return, I know I am doing it out of pure intentions and with the Love of God. I do things with no strings attached but God has give me wisdom to not enable those that would take and steal from others for their own gain. I include NTCC, it's pastors and other such groups and people in that catagory.

    Like I said in an ealier post, until you can serve God and EXPECT NOTHING IN RETURN EITHER HERE ON EARTH OR IN HEAVEN you are only serving a Santa Claus. What will Santa give me if I am a good boy or girl? What can I do to get more goodies? That is spiritual immaturtity. Everyone of you NTCC preachers teaching such things for your own monatory gain and praises from man are spiritually bankrupt.

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  88. Very good comments on this thread. So we have the same questions that have been asked for years on the blogs and Factnet concerning tithe and scriptures that support it. We have yet to see one comment that supports the ntcc false doctrine, because their are no scriptures to support it. The mantra of the ntcc has been to draw attention away from the topic in question by attacking other related areas in our lives. If they can discredit or smear us with false accusations, it takes peoples mind off of the real issue at hand and that is the false doctrine of mandatory tithe with hell being the home for all those who don't pay it to the ntcc. Tithe payers in other organizations are not praised by the ntcc, because they feel that the only cause on earth that can lawfully extract money out of it's gullible followers is their own.

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  89. Fighting the truth said:

    "I want to address the question you all keep bring up about them tell you where the money goes."

    DNA said:

    We are still waiting for you to address the question that we asked. Where does all the money go? Do you even care? Obviously not.

    Standing in Lies also said:

    "They don't owe you an explanation. It is like a father saying he isn't going to pay child support unless the mother says how the money is spent and proves it is being spent on the child. A judge isn't going to make a mother do that or allow a father to stop paying.

    DNA said:

    And you know this how? Because you tried to withhold child support from your wife using this excuse? It sounds like first hand information because you said: "I know this because my first wife left me to go back home." So according to the bible and your own words, you are worse than an infidel for not providing for your family and child. 1 Tim 5:8

    Running from the truth goes on to say:

    "I don't think they are misspending the money. Even if I did God called me to this church and it needs supporting so I obey with giving."

    DNA said:

    So it's all right to not provide for your child, which you brought into this world, but you are okay with supporting a church that has a history of destroying marriages and abusing children. Perhaps God didn't call you to be a part of the ntcc cesspool.

    The more these ntcc'rs comment on this blog, the more they make a solid case against them. If you take the sum total of the comments that were left on this thread from ntcc'rs in regards to tithe and giving, anyone with common sense and an elementary school education can see that the ntcc is all about money. They don't love you or anyone else. They love money. You are not standing in truth. You are denying the truth that is right in front of you. By avoiding the questions and diverting the conversation to other topics, you come across as someone who cowardly shies away from the truth. It's too much for you to face alone. You know what? You would actually have a better chance of finding forgiveness and acceptance from the X-er community than you would from the ntcc. They are unforgiving and that is the reason none of you in the ntcc will share your true names. You don't want to be confronted by Kekel or any of the ntcc leadership for being on the blogs. You are still welcome to answer the questions we asked but lets stay on topic next time please.



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  90. OK OK, the Vikings stunk and I'm sad this morning. If I would have stayed in the NTCC I wouldn't know anything about it. Unless I was a head honcho with a TV in my home and RV. Anyone know where there is a church in the Minneapolis area?

    Mike

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  91. Sorry Mike. I wasn't too impressed with Peyton Manning, but the Broncos D showed up. Teddy B. looked pretty good but not sure about the O-line. I think they'll improve and possibly make the playoffs.

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  92. So, it looks like we have proven that there are no scriptures that support the ntcc's tithe policy and the condemnation that is preached towards those who don't pay tithe. The ntcc and it's minions have failed to come up with one scripture that supports their false doctrine, and they never will because there are no scriptures to be found. Can we all agree on that? So, what other false doctrines are preached in the ntcc? How many other controlling and manipulative rules are preached by ntcc hirelings that have no basis in the word of God? I can think of quite a few. But let's talk about what is missing from the ntcc. How about love? Love for the brethren and the love that they are supposed to have for their neighbors? How about their love for the homeless, the stranger, the fatherless and the widow?

    They are too busy loving themselves to love anyone who is broken and down trodden. Only those that are in the mandatory tithe paying class are reached out to, and then the right hand of fellowship only extends as long as the money keeps rolling in. This is really wicked if you look at it. They are a lot like the religious leaders that accepted 30 pieces of silver from Judas to betray Christ. Money is more important to them than anything else. Go ask Kekel to do what Jesus asked the rich ruler to do. Ask Kekel to give all of his goods away to the poor and follow Jesus, and see how loving and kind he is towards you. Ask him to borrow 10 dollars to give to a homeless man or woman and see what kind of response you get. Does the ntcc really need that 10 bucks more than the homeless? Do you think Jesus cares about the homeless even though they can't afford to pay tithe? How many people did Jesus ask to pay tithe? How many times did Paul command Christians to pay tithe? A big goose egg. That's right, zero. Nada. None. So why is tithe the most important doctrine in the ntcc? Why do they preach tithe over and over again from their pulpits while ignoring the poor? Because they do not believe in or practice the bible. They condemn people and tell them that they are going to hell, but when it comes to being truthful with them about what God really requires of them, they fail miserably because their heart is set on accumulating filthy lucre. They use God's people for their own selfish and greedy purposes.

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  93. Don and Ange,

    I've decided to rejoin the NTCC (not the Kekel version) so I don't have to know or endure another Vikings season of disappointment. I will no longer be able to afford Cable as I will be giving thousands to help put Grant through law school as well as helping Tanya get another Coach purse and antique dresser.

    I've given this a great deal of thought you can believe that.

    I can't wait to shave everyday again, go to 5 services, soul win, also known as bothering people while they try to have a nice day, and who could forget about the loud prayer meetings where everyone is trying to act so holy. I almost forgot about singing I'll fly away 3 times a week as well.

    Yes, this is what I've come to after realizing the Vikings O Line is a mess and their run defense can be beaten with two TE sets. There is no point in living free when I can be in bondage and forget about such worldly things. Farewell as I will no longer have the internet either.

    Mike
    "the most depressed man in America"

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  94. Mike,

    Please let us try to talk you off the ledge. We think that we have come up with an alternative to your predicament. The Seahawks are accepting bandwagon fans, so you can shift your allegiance to Seattle. You'll have to switch to Directv so you can get every game in digital quality, but with the money you have stopped giving to pay for Grant's Law School, you can get a nice digital devil vision and a devil dish to watch your devilish football games on. Olson has a picture of the Seattle Seahawks on his blog so he must be of the devil also. If you do go back into the ntcc, maybe Olson will allow you to watch the games on his TV. They lie about tithe. What else do they lie about.

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  95. You see, what a great idea, if I schmooze with Olson maybe I'll get in good with the big wigs. Who knows, maybe I wont have to start a church or be a helper for some Stalinist dictator in love with wearing a swanky suit and living in a trailer park. Maybe, just maybe I can be an ADMINISTRATOR!!! I can yell and the 7 new Bible school students and get me the hottest wife under 285 pounds.

    My mom loves Seattle so that would be nice... Hmmmm Having the Cake and eating it after it molds too. Sounds almost too good.

    Mike
    "The Viking Hater"

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  96. It's very telling how "buddy" which by the way is how the ms tieman used to address her son or any other boy but this individual talks about tithe this and giving to the church that. Maybe he is the one who is having a problem with money.
    Buddy talks about how he still gonna give his money to the ntcc because he is doing it cheerfully just like the bible says and because he isn't a sinner and because he was blessed with a "better" woman and because he is so happy to obey them that have the rule over him so I'm glad he is content with this.
    The only thing for him to ponder is what other stuff he is gonna do for the ntcc?
    He seems like he has crossed the line of fanaticism. It's like those people that get infatuated with something and they don't care anymore and buddy seems like he is going there as long as they tell him he's a good boy but what about when he can't do this things?
    He is gonna find out that he was only liked for whatever he could give to the org.
    He should heed and read the story of brill and how he was on a pedestal one day but when he ended up getting sick and couldn't help the ntcc anymore he was left on the curve: just like a sad country song.

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  97. Anonymous said:

    "He seems like he has crossed the line of fanaticism."

    DNA said:

    Many of the ntcc preachers crossed that line. I remember they used to teach if a person was a sinner but he got his eyeball from an organ donor that was a Christian and the rapture took place that the eyeball that came from the Christian would pop out of his eye socket of the sinner and join the rest of his remains in heaven to be changed. That's some pretty far out stuff. Ashmore's right hand man, Meinecke, believes in signs and wonders and was warning people to get right before the 4th blood moon. Davis seen false visions and so did Olson. These people are Kooks. They say whatever they can dream up to keep people thinking that they are super spiritual. Their scam doesn't work unless they can convince people that they are God's oracles and have obtained special favor from God above everyone else.

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  98. God does guide our steps, if we walk in love. I can see how he led me out of NTCC, almost 30 years ago. Our ministry in Portland is aiding those who cannot recompense us. We have fulfilled Luke 14:10-14. There are things that Ntcc will never know. I pity them. Tainted seed can only produce tainted crops, fruit. It seems like RW and McK have only a reward in this life.
    This thread is the most insightful discussion of the subject manner. Jesus said, freely ye have received, freely give. To charge for the gospel is to sin against the blood of Christ. Good thing Ashmore left NTCC. But I can testify that it may take years to learn what God is really teaching His people, with good seed in good ground, contrasted to bad seed in hardened ground, producing carnal, man-made results, and every evil work.

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  99. I have been asking the question: "Which biblical example in the O.T. should we follow in regards to paying tithe because there are none in the N.T.?

    With all the theologians in the NTCC I would think I would of received a answer by now, especially since their living is made by the receiving of tithe.

    The reason they will not answer is because no matter which example they pick, it is incomplete to justify what they teach as doctrine and can be picked apart by a 10 year old.

    Enough said.

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  100. Anonymous said...
    "Some things that some claim I don't believe, BUT, there are true claims of abuse of pastoral authority and many other corruption which I have witnessed. But can not prove. So despite the tithe debate, many preachers both great and small are guilty of bad conduct.

    Ok, got it, but why support their behavior? Giving money to these elite servants of Gawwwwd only adds to the problem.

    1 Timothy 6:10 says, “For the love of money is a root of all sorts of evil, and some by longing for it have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.” Those who love money will find that they are willing to compromise their integrity further to get more money. The desire for more begins to control their thinking and to dominate their desires, leading to all kinds of evil thoughts and deeds. The Pharisees loved money, and it controlled their thinking and destroyed their souls (Luke 16:14). The love of money is a defining characteristic of the last days (2 Timothy 3:2), but Christians must guard their hearts to make sure that they are free of the love of money. This is why having hearts that are not enslaved to money is a prerequisite of those who desire to be an elder in the church (1 Timothy 3:3).

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    1. Bryan I have not gave them money. Because in not there no more. I'm just stating what I've seen and heard with my own ears. And yes I cant prove them.

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  101. Brother D. said:

    "Our ministry in Portland is aiding those who cannot recompense us."

    DNA said:

    That is what Jesus did. The ministry of Christ was never to the rich in exchange for giving. Jesus never threatened people with hell for not paying him money either. I think a lot of people incorrectly assume that living for God means that they have to give money to a preacher and present an outward show of works that presents an appearance to others that they are living above reproach. The ntcc always presents excuses to keep people under their manipulative rules. It's always, "We don't do this or that for testimony sake".

    They use these rules to their advantage. The ntcc pastor would often tell brothers how to spend their money. If a brother or sister wanted to spend their money on something that would prevent them from giving larger portions in the offering the pastor would find an excuse to keep them from spending their money. They would accuse the brother or sister of squandering their money. If a brother couldn't afford to dress up to play church, they would hound him and tell him that not dressing up was a bad testimony. They would send that brother or sister to the Kook store to buy some hand-me-down suits or dresses so they could play church. Jesus never dressed up like the Pharisees and he never seemed to care what people were wearing. The only time he mentioned clothing was in reference to the religious hypocrites that liked to make an outward show of how spiritual they were. The ntcc is no different. They'll have you buying a kook store wardrobe to free up your money so that you can give it to them. They in turn will do all of their shopping at upper end merchandisers like Bloomingdales, Saks Fifth Ave, and Nordstroms with the money that you saved at the kook store so you could meet their sacrificial obligations. I wonder what kind of shopping sprees the Kekels went on with your tithe dollars when they were vacationing in New York City?

    The ntcc church members live like zombies from church service to church service emptying out their wallets into the offering plates oblivious to the corruption of their leaders. It's a lot like being addicted to alcohol or drugs. Your whole life can be passing you by and people that care about you are warning you and trying to convince you to quit but your addiction makes you want that next fix more than anything in the world. You ignore common sense. You ignore your friends and family. You ignore the path of destruction you are leaving behind you. Your whole life is a train wreck and nobody can do anything to convince you otherwise. You say, "I'm addicted to Jesus". No you aren't. If you are more concerned about paying tithe to people that are using your money for their own wealth, you are not addicted to Jesus. Your pastor is supposed to be an ambassador for Christ. Where do you find Jesus ever getting rich off of the masses?

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  102. Bryan Hill said:

    "With all the theologians in the NTCC I would think I would of received a answer by now, especially since their living is made by the receiving of tithe."

    DNA said:

    I really believe that most of the ntcc pastors have hardened their hearts and seared their consciences with a hot iron. They know there are no scriptures to justify their false teachings, but they are convinced that they are in the place that their God, (ntcc leaders), want them to be. This is why they call it brain washing. Sometimes people just have to be worn down by the system to the point where they realize that it's nothing more than a routine. That's how the law of Moses was to many who didn't believe in God. They just went through the motions because that was what was required of them. They began to pick and choose which parts of the law that they wanted to keep. The ten commandments would be broken all the time while they kept some of the arduous sacraments to maintain an outward appearance of being holy. God began to abhor the sacrifices because they were being offered from a hearts that had no love for God or love for one another. The sacrifices became meaningless and served only to anger God.

    The ntcc is no different than the sons of Eli who laid with women at the door of the tabernacle. They were offering sacrifices and outwardly appearing holy, yet they were taken with the ark of the covenant and slain while their father Eli fell over backwards and broke his neck. The Pharisees would find fault with Jesus because he and his disciples did not wash their hands before eating. They would add to the law which people were already failing to keep. That's what the ntcc does. They cause others to commit adultery by encouraging people to divorce while splitting up their families and they preach doctrines like tithe and holiness with eternal fire and brimstone for all those who don't follow their own man made rules. God has to abhor that hypocrisy just like he abhorred the meaningless burnt offerings and sacrifices that came from corrupt hearts.

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  103. Anonymous said...
    Bryan I have not gave them money. Because in not there no more. I'm just stating what I've seen and heard with my own ears. And yes I cant prove them.

    Hey good for you then, keep a fresh line of communications with Jesus Christ open each day and try to build into your faith the idea that Jesus and Jesus alone can save and did save your soul. Imagine how good life would be in organized religion if we all simply lifted him up with all the Glory and Honor He deserves as we become less and less.

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  104. Update on "Brother Mike"

    In case you're wondering, Brother Mike just received his first holy ghost missle at Tuesday's Bible Study. He wore Tennis shoes to church with his slacks, shirt and tie. Are you kidding me? He should know better. He took it in stride though as he appeared to almost enjoy it.

    Unfortunately he only put a dollar in the plate so I have a feeling he's going to get blasted again tonight for not giving more. Our pastor must be taken care of don't you know. He's been tight on money ever since he purchased a brand new Minivan to do the work of the lord. The JBL sound system he had installed really makes that Southern Gospel pop.

    I've told him since he's retired military and working for the government that he should be able to give no less than 5 dollars a service and to my amazement he's going to give 10 every service. So to everyone concerned about him I'd just like to say he's doing great in the program of God.

    I think now would be a good time for everyone to sing I'll Fly Away.

    Brother Natas

    ReplyDelete
  105. How about singing " I'm headed for the top" good job bro mike, this one for you!

    ReplyDelete
  106. Hey Mike,

    Make sure that you spread a bunch of rumors and lies about us so the ntcc will be able to live with themselves. You can tell them how that we all have corrupted our minds with football and that we are hell bound because we spend our tithe money on Directv. They in turn will preach that we have taken the money that belongs to God and stole it from God and all of the ntcc'rs will feel good about themselves for depriving their families of the basic essentials in life so they could spend their money taking care of the Man of Gawwwwud.

    I envy you Mike. I miss the abuse that was dished out in the ntcc. I wish I could have a 25 year old Pastor and his flirtatious wife telling me how to live again. But you see, Mike, the Broncos are doing good right now and I have no reason to sell my TV. I so long for the day that I can be back in the bondage of ntcc rules and doctrine. Let me know if the ntcc ever stops condemning people for missing church services and Soul winning during Football games. If I could have football and ntcc religion at the same time, that would be great. I mean, I couldn't afford to have my own devilvision or Directv because of tithe, but there's always Walmart.



    ReplyDelete
  107. The ntcc's Twitter page:

    GRAHAM-NTCC,NTCS ‏@GRAHAMNTCCNTCS Sep 8
    No prayer meetings Tuesday and Wednesday night. The Small Chapel will be open before classes for prayer.

    GRAHAM-NTCC,NTCS ‏@GRAHAMNTCCNTCS Sep 4
    No Pers. Evang. 9/5/15 due to holiday weekend.
    6 retweets 5 favorites

    GRAHAM-NTCC,NTCS ‏@GRAHAMNTCCNTCS Aug 29
    Personal Evang. cancelled 8/29 due to power outage. Service at 7:30 small chapel.

    GRAHAM-NTCC,NTCS ‏@GRAHAMNTCCNTCS Aug 25
    Bible study will be in Small Chapel tonight at 7:30. Thank you

    GRAHAM-NTCC,NTCS ‏@GRAHAMNTCCNTCS Aug 21
    There will be no service Saturday, August 22, 2015.

    GRAHAM-NTCC,NTCS ‏@GRAHAMNTCCNTCS Jul 14
    Revelation 2 will not be taught tonight, July 14, 2015.

    Several interesting things to take note of here. I don't ever remember a church service, soul winning event or prayer meeting being cancelled in 13 years of servitude from 1983 to 1996. If you missed one of these mandatory events you were considered to be hell bound. If the power went out, we had church in the dark or by Candle light. If you missed soul winning for any reason, you didn't care about souls. If you missed prayer meeting you didn't have a burden for the work of God. If you missed any function at all, you were forsaking the fellowship.

    Here we see the ntcc cancelling many of these all important events that would keep you from going to heaven 20 years ago. It looks like it might be time to shut down some more local Churches in the Sea/Tac area so that those members can fill the big Chapel in Graham that was paid for by all of our mandatory tithe or burn in hell gifts that we left at the ntcc altar along with our lost souls when we departed. Now a days you have to be on the sinnernet and have a twitter account to find out which Fellowship/church events that the ntcc is going to forsake. Don't you feel stupid for rushing back and forth to all these mandatory events that were used to test your loyalty with threats of eternal damnation for missing just one when you see that they are being cancelled on a regular basis?

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  108. D/A,

    You are correct, things have lightened up a bit because of safety concerns and holiday concerns. Instead of criticizing the lords work you simply need to get re saved.

    This is why I'm happy to once again be apart of the last movement of God on this earth. There are more benefits as well. My pastor does nothing but pray so last night the Pastors wife (who is one hot mountain of mush) needed some lovin and I was the one she picked out. I'm headed to the top so I feel if I can get enough dirt on enough people they'll bring me in on the pyramid scheme portion of the church.

    I'll be picking out a Lexus because I'm not a fan of Cadys.

    Oh and by the way Don, I've told everyone you've become an obsessive Compulsive and turned into a sort of Monk like character. I thought that would be fun to put out there as rumors and gossip are always enjoyable.

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  109. Now you're getting it! You've got the psychology so you can play the people too.

    Oh, and "one hot mountain of mush", or O.H.M.O.M. or just OHMOM for short, --- !! Noice!!

    ReplyDelete
  110. It's odd that all those church functions were cancelled because we just read what mk said to Michael B:
    " What Pastor (davis) never understood, and I agree, is how someone can just shut the doors on their work for God and be gone, while it falls through. If you went to the store and it wasn’t open during its business hours you would not be a happy customer. The doors in Graham are NEVER closed, everything is always in place."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Good catch Anon. Once again we see kekel contradicting himself, also known as talking out of both sides of his mouth.

      Delete
  111. Dearest NTCC Haters... Kekel can't talk out of both sides of his mouth as there is only one side and that's the Lord's side.

    I'm sure the doors were open for prayer meeting it's just not everyone could safely make it to the "yelling at the wall/ceiling/pew/floor event"

    I've heard there was no service on the 21st because Kekel got upset that a brother was talking dirty with Tanya so Kekel had to figure out how to get him a position in the front office so he'd stop hitting on the founder's daughter. He also gave the mystery man free access to some of the single sisters for a month. I'm trying to get some of that action too.

    I'm just saying there are good reasons why things have been cancelled so lets not jump to any conclusions.

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  112. That's going a little further than we want to go. I'm sure some people think that this is a stretch, but I wouldn't put it past Kekel. There have been too many people that have shared that stuff like this actually goes on. Who really knows why Kekel is cancelling services. I would guess there is something secretive behind it all. They've hidden secrets before. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a major scandal that they are trying to cover up. By cancelling services they can tie up loose ends before people find out. That's just supposition right now on my part but it wouldn't surprise me. If there were a legitimate reason for causing people to miss spiritual life dependent functions, you would think that Kekel would explain that to the poor faithful ministers in training. What about all the souls that are dying and going to hell during this time?

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  113. I'm going fishing in the morning on my pontoon and can't help but top think of how this would be such a damning decision if I were under the thumb of those self imposed Lords over me. I feel like signing "I'm so glad that Jesus set me free, I'm so glad that Jesus set me free" etc..

    That being said, I don't need psychology to play the people cuz I have no desire to control them. Psychology comes in when you are attempting to manipulate someone to do what you think they should do.

    "I'm so glad that Jesus set me free, I'm so glad that Jesus set me free"

    ReplyDelete
  114. When NTCC puts single parents in the houses on their property it is mean because it makes it challenging for the other parent to see their children. One day those children will go looking for the other parent that you can not stop.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yes, that's very sad that they would do such a thing.
      Maybe the parent that's still in the ntcc asked to live in the compound for that reason, to keep the ex from trying to see their kids and since that's ntcc private property you can't do anything about it unless you arrange to pick the kids at a public place.
      So sad that kids are the ones to suffer when marriages are broken apart.

      Delete
  115. When a religious hypocrite tells you who can and can't visit you in the house that you pay to live in, you just might be in a cult. Who else does this? Who in their right mind would rent or buy a house and allow someone to tell them who can or can't visit them? A better question is: Why would someone tell you who can visit you in the house you pay for? We are going to tell you why. Because the ntcc and it's leaders want you to have little to no contact with anyone outside of their cult. This is what cults do. They have many secrets and many rules.

    People have shared that they were not allowed to have anyone over to their child's birthday parties without permission. They have also shared that 'sinner' relatives were not allowed to visit the 'saved' person if they lived on ntcc property. Some have shared that people were not allowed to leave the bonco for a period of longer than 4 hours without permission. This is what manipulative and controlling religious nuts do. You can't talk to people that have left the organization and you have to break contact with churches and members once you move and attend a different ntcc church (cult). It's the same way in Servicemen's homes. They are mini cult compounds, run very much like the indoctrination center in Graham.

    This is communism disguised by religion. They are not Christians; they are religious nut cases. They are isolationists and their profession of Christianity comes with a shroud of secrecy because their motives are deceptive and rooted in greed.

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  116. Don and Ange
    "People have shared that they were not allowed to have anyone over to their child's birthday parties without permission. They have also shared that 'sinner' relatives were not allowed to visit the 'saved' person if they lived on ntcc property. Some have shared that people were not allowed to leave the bonco for a period of longer than 4 hours without permission."

    Anonymous says

    Though they say rules have changed with children's birthday parties it still is limited number children plus when is one to have it because you can't miss anything including soul-winning. You can have anyone outside come to it including students from your child's school. If spend much money on it you are questioned where did the money come from and how it is waste. You still can't have your outside relatives visit. Though the high up people can. I have noticed Sis. St. Clair is allowed to have her family come which is puzzling to me. Yes you can't be gone for long periods of time. If you get back late causing you to be late for something that is serious trouble. Even though family does come see Sis. St.Clair I have never seen her children. Someone says she has a few. I wonder why they don't come see her since she is allowed family?

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  117. So I was going Soul bothering and wouldn't you know it the guy had his TV on and I just happen to glance over and the Vikings were winning 14 to nothing. I made sure I talked to him and during the course of our conversation I over heard the announcer say something like 26-16 final score... Vikings won.

    I may have sold my TV a bit to quick.

    Any how the guy didn't want to come to church so I asked him the question "if you died today where would you go?" Next thing you know I'm running down the street with this guy chasing me with a shot gun... Definitely safer to be a Vikings fan.

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  118. I see Graham's gearing up for the next brainwashing festival...er, I mean "conference." The theme is "7X HOTTER!" Looks like they're stirring the troops up to adopt a persecution mentality, so they can play their "us against the world" card in order to induce people to abandon observation and reason in place of fear and manipulation. Yeah, they're all getting threatened with the fire nowadays, but no, they won't bow and they won't burn. I guess they'll be ignoring all the recent changes that have already occurred and pretend that they're still "the last move of God on earth." The mind control rolls on.

    ReplyDelete
  119. Interesting Vic,

    I think the persecution mentality has always been apart of the whole scheme though. I think you're dead on about the abandoning observation and reason...

    How exactly do you go from holiness to whatever it is now without somehow convincing people you're still the last great movement on earth.

    ReplyDelete
  120. Vic said:

    "I guess they'll be ignoring all the recent changes that have already occurred and pretend that they're still "the last move of God on earth."

    DNA said:

    It's amazing that so many people are willing to shut off their brains and follow blind fools. There are Thousands of religions around the world and they all believe that they hold the secret to get into heaven. Many of them will teach that all others wrong. 100% of the time the doctrine that sets them apart from all other religions is based on their own heresy that they claim comes from the God, or they will take verses that they don't care to understand and twist them to create another false doctrine. Then they will mix their teachings with the words of Christ, creating a toxic mixture of dogma that does more to turn people away from God than it ever did to help anyone. People get caught up in this hypocritical cesspool and think that they are part of the last move of God on earth, when in reality they are buying into another phony religion that wastes away their years while the cult leaders get rich and laugh at them all the way to the bank.

    ReplyDelete
  121. Anonymous says

    Though they say rules have changed with children's birthday parties it still is limited number children plus when is one to have it because you can't miss anything including soul-winning. You can have anyone outside come to it including students from your child's school. If spend much money on it you are questioned where did the money come from and how it is waste. You still can't have your outside relatives visit. Though the high up people can.


    Don and Ange say,

    Cults have very strict rules because they rely on secrecy to keep people deceived. They don't want "outsiders" who haven't been indoctrinated one rule at a time to come and see all the weird rules and how different the incomes are. They know that people who are free will immediately see how rich the cult leaders are, while the "little people" in the cult struggle for daily necessities like food, gas money, and so on. Cults have to use deception and time to secretly work in all the rules that teach members not to ask questions; but visitors who haven't been indoctrinated (deluded) will readily ask,

    How can that dude drive a $250,000 McClaren while the rest drive oil puking junkers? He must be skimming from the church books.

    The church member will say,

    Oh no, that couldn't be.

    But the visitor will keep pressing.

    How do you know? Have you seen the books?

    Well, no. But ...

    But what? Shouldn't they show you the financial statements? What are they hiding?

    ReplyDelete
  122. Anonymous says

    I have noticed Sis. St. Clair is allowed to have her family come which is puzzling to me. [...] Even though family does come see Sis. St.Clair I have never seen her children. Someone says she has a few. I wonder why they don't come see her since she is allowed family?


    Don and Ange say,

    There are two living 'children' (now adults) of ralph and joan st. clair, named Julie Ridgeway and John St. Clair. ralph and joan had a third child who, if we are not mistaken, died in Germany years ago, while still a child, possibly before the ntcc came into the picture.

    As for why Julie and John don't come see joan, Julie has shared with us that she has visited joan and talked with her on the phone. We don't know if John has visited joan or not. It's a wonder that they have any contact with her, considering what Julie has alleged against both ralph and joan, and what John St. Clair allegedly confirmed in this post click here.

    It's one thing to forgive someone for years of (alleged) abuse; it is another to allow them any contact, especially with your own children. It might even be considered bad parenting, putting your own children at risk by allowing them to see or visit known (alleged) sexual, physical, and mental abusers. It just seems foolish and irresponsible. But it may be one way of controlling the contact. In other words, your children may want to see granny; because they don't yet understand what she is really all about. So, in order to control the situation, you allow it with heavy monitoring... It's tough to make a call. You don't want your child running off on their own to visit an abuser. But I know I wouldn't want them together if I could help it. Just because you forgive an offender, that does not mean that he or she has repented or changed. It's okay to protect yourself and your children from such. How to go about it is up to you and God.

    Why does ntcc "allow" joan's family who are, in the ntcc lingo "sinners" visit her? They have money. And money talks louder than anything else in the ntcc.

    ReplyDelete
  123. I wonder if Joan had some money left to her when her husband passed away.
    I wonder because the org readily allowed her to come and live in an org house.
    Other widows haven't been so lucky and are left to fend for themselves while Joan is given a home to rent.
    The org is not about to let her live rent free so she might have some money.

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  124. I seriously doubt that Ralph St. Clair had any money and probably didn't even have life insurance to leave to his wife to take care of herself or put him in the ground. He was constantly the butt of RWD's remarks during his self-promotion classes as to not having money and will probably have to always work. Imagine being his age and realizing your had nothing to show for it and still having to do carpentry and handyman work. It's also telling that there was nothing publicized in Graham about a funeral at their headquarters or the church he was pastoring. I doubt Kekel or anyone there would want to see Julie and John show up, if they even would. Plus all of this happens as these revelations come to light and maybe his guilty conscious finally caught up with him. Joan probably lives off Social Security, Medicaid and any VA benefits Ralph may have had.

    ReplyDelete
  125. She wouldn't get any VA benefits (except burial) unless he was 100% disabled and that being for 10 years prior to his death. I believe he wasn't because he wouldn't be a minister. I also thought I read that he didn't retire from military. She would get his Social Security at a greatly reduced amount if he was drawing it prior to 70. Also being a surviving wife it is reduces even more.

    Unless he had a stash of cash and property she will be living at a poverty level and eligible for goverment benefits.

    I find it very odd indeed that she readily got a place to stay and non church visitors. Here is my Conspiracy Theory- They need to keep her on their side. Julie with her Mommy Dearest's testimony could own NTCC as could the families of the girls in MS or LA that he had violated and any other violated children yet to come forward. Next there has to be a pot of gold her relatives are sitting on for them to be allowed into the compound. Finally, they DO NOT want Julie to have an opportunity to walk on any NTCC property for a funeral or visit to Mommy Dearest.

    Okay Mike Kekel/Buddy, tell me which of my theories is incorrect?!

    ReplyDelete
  126. Ralph's death was finally announced on Olson's blog 6 days after he died. Ralph's death took place under a shroud of secrecy and when it was finally announced, he didn't get a "celebration of life" like Davis and he wasn't "ushered into the Presence of God", as they claimed RWD was. Ralph "received his promotion" via a massive stroke and last we heard there wasn't even a service for his almost 4 decades of indentured servitude, nor was there an obituary or any public information for people that might have been concerned. It seemed like the ntcc wanted to keep it a secret until he was cremated, or so the rumor goes. Even Julie had a hard time getting details about Ralph's death and she was his daughter although the St. Clairs disowned her because she left the Borg. They never treated her decently while she was in the borg so when she left they pretended like they didn't even have a daughter.

    Ralph was a huge embarrassment to the ntcc and they didn't want any attention to be drawn to Ralph's death. I doubt if Olson would have even published anything on his blog if it were not for the masses finding out about it on our blog. People are clueless in the ntcc until they visit the X-er blogs and find out what is going on. Then the gossip spreads like wild fire and pressure begins to build in Graham. Olson always has been a master at damage control and that's what his post was all about. It was a very brief statement followed by an explanation why St. Clair wasn't divinely healed and how that the sin sick soul being healed was the greatest healing of all. Rather than explain why everyone was dying and nobody was getting healed they used this as an opportunity to promote their "All ntcc members go to heaven" agenda, but don't expect divine healing.

    On the other hand if Julie had been the one to die, it would have been preached from the roof tops along with a message of judgment for all those who might be thinking about escaping the bondage of the ntcc. I remember all the warnings and judgment that was being pitchforked around in the ntcc. If you left, you were choosing hell, while if you stayed, you had a fighting chance to make it to heaven. It was as if the ntcc had a monopoly on salvation and the streets of gold were all paved for the sole purpose of the ntcc royalty to trod on.

    ReplyDelete
  127. This post was in chiefs blog which I found very interesting because some of us who were in the ntcc in the "dennis days" were in the dark about how things transpired for this guy who one moment was the "golden boy" and the next he was "judas incarnate" :

    "Okay, I am going to let you in one some previously unpublished insider information.

    RW absolutely knew what Denis was doing. Denis was just as much RW's pawn as anyone else until January 2003. RW held one of his manipulation meetings (commonly referred to as board meetings)in an attempt to put Denis in "his place" for some minor infraction. When the meeting was over Denis walked sheepishly out. RW preached his message of doom "The mule walked on" to further put Denis in check.

    Shortly after that Denis began to find out who loved him more than old RW. It took him ten months,but by December of 2003, one of the preachers he was desperate to convert to a hopper began to call RW and directly report to him everything Denis was trying to do.

    Davis set up "The Program". Davis demanded Denis to obey him and produce results, whatever it took. They laughed about it together. This is first hand folks. I have no axes to grind, I just feel it is only right for me to tell you. Davis knew about everything, except the stolen money, all the way to the end."
    That's where we celebrated rw's birthday and we all marched downstairs for a celebration and when we walked into the room there was a table in front of us with rw sitting in the middle and the board members to the sides of him looking at us. No smiles , just glaring at us and pieces of cakes were being passed around from hand to hand and for one moment I was getting short of breath because more people were coming down and we were packed like sardines.
    I shutter to think of the many other programs people have been put under to destroy them!

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  128. Sorry about this, but I read this Factnet post and had to paste it here, if for no other reason than wanting to share a good laugh.

    Vic said:

    ""What's up with the pants issue. If you want to wear your pants ladies, please do. No one is stopping you."

    This reminds me of an anecdote RW related about Finis J. Dake. He said that a woman came up to Dake and asked "can I cut my hair?" Sure, he replied. As she walked away, he added "You can drink whiskey, too." Likewise, no one in the .org is stopping anyone from wearing pants--not any more than, say, smoking crack.

    You say "No one put a gun to no one's head and told them to wear pants or not to wear pants." But someone in an NTCC pulpit HAS dangled them over the pit of Hell and informed them (in that charming red-faced, saliva-spraying way) that it is the place all britches-sporting Jezebels will languish in Eternal torment.

    Somehow a gun to the head seems a bit tame by comparison."

    Thanks Vic for the comedic relief. We laughed our guts out.

    ReplyDelete
  129. I think my best work was done back on the old FACTNet. That was the first internet venue that featured honest discussion about NTCC, and we all had plenty built up behind the floodgates. Plus the brainwashed org suckers were too isolated from normal society to realize how kooky they were coming across, so they didn't hold back with any of their foolishness either. Too bad the the format was changed; that effectively killed it off. But FACTNet spawned the blogs, so at least there is still a place to go to denounce the swindlers.

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  130. I've tried to read most all of factnet stuff. I left the church when a split was unthinkable so I've been fascinated with watching Ashmore pick up and move on. It's astonishing to see people who became free from one pack of loopy religious goof balls but then transfer into another group of sometimes even loopier goofballs.

    Hope they are enjoying their lives though because I'm angry every day for wasting some of the best years of my life.

    Mike

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  131. It's always being about a "program"
    If it isn't their "program" then you're on your way to hell.
    How many times we heard them preach: " get on with the program"
    The soul winning "program"
    Gods "program" but it wasn't about God or about souls or about heaven. It was about furthering and helping "them" to achieve "their dreams" and "their goals"

    ReplyDelete
  132. Mike said:

    "It's astonishing to see people who became free from one pack of loopy religious goof balls but then transfer into another group of sometimes even loopier goofballs."

    DNA said:

    That is one thing that is hard to comprehend. People leave the ntcc because of it's controlling atmosphere and they end up going to another cult or splinter group of the ntcc. I can understand people following both Denis and Ashmore to certain degree. People feel they have the need to follow someone. That's why they joined the ntcc and stayed for such a long time. After a while you become like a zombie, moving from one blood feast to another. I know that sounds sick, but spiritually an ntcc member is not much different from a zombie. Zombies are fictional characters that are driven to devour living human beings. They don't care about anything other than eating people alive and turning other people into zombies. Once they become a zombie they don't care about the other zombies, they just want fresh blood from people who are not zombies. Many ntcc ministers are real life characters that lust for power, money and recognition. They very seldom think for themselves because they are driven to follow their false teachings. They actually devour people in real life by sucking the life out of them. This is accomplished by draining their finances, imposing ridiculous rules on them, and beating them down constantly until they completely stop thinking for themselves and live by the letter of ntcc law. It's a spiritual blood feast, and these ministers go from place to place infecting new victims with their false doctrines.

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  133. Once people have shut their brains off and given themselves to complete reliance on corrupt hypocrites, they become dependent on that poser or figure head to influence all of their thought processes. Things that some people don't even give thought to, an ntcc member will struggle with for hours and this wears them down. It's much easier to follow someone who will take away your choices by demanding you to do things their way. When an ntcc minister tells you how to spend your money; who you can or can't associate with; where you have to be at any given hour; makes you ask for permission to do things that are not a sin; rebukes you for doing things that are not a sin and controls your life to the point where you are walking on eggshells 24/7, you become deprived of using your own brain. You are just like that zombie that seeks living flesh to devour. You no longer think for yourself, you just want to find fresh souls that can be devoured and manipulated into shutting off their brains and living a life of spiritual depravation. You shut out your families and loved ones unless they follow you and your cult leaders destructive patterns of behavior. You ignore the people that you come in contact with every day that you could help, but the only thing you have to offer is a watered down form of religion that is void of love, understanding and forgiveness.

    Jesus never ignored people that were suffering physically, emotionally, financially or spiritually. He healed them and then gave them their own choice to follow him without taking up 50 offerings per month. He never told them to dress like a bunch of dorks or to play church 5 times a week while isolating themselves from everyone around them. It's like the message that Davis preached to himself at a conference in the audience of all of his brainwashed subjects. Davis had used our money to get his pilot's license while forsaking the fellowship and soul winning to pursue his own dreams of flying a plane, while we all struggled financially and slaved around the clock so the fat cats in Graham could prosper. Davis talked about how a plane could be just 1 degree off course. At first, the plane would be so close to it's original route that you could barely tell that you were off course, but as the distance increased the error also increased and before you knew it you would be lost and disoriented.

    That is exactly what happens to people in the ntcc. They hear the preaching of the cross and think they are going the right direction. They ignore all the red flags and begin to adhere to the false teachings that are strategically introduced with a little truth mixed in here and there. At first they are excited and heading in the right general direction but as their brain begins shut down so does their moral compass. They think they are following Jesus but they are actually following a corrupt and greedy man. They learn to rely on that corrupt and greedy man to influence more and more of their decisions. They are no longer on course and they are no longer following Jesus. They get further and further away from the truth and have no idea how to find their way back to the original course they started out on. Then they see someone like Ashmore or Denis leave and it's so easy to follow them and switch allegiance, but in the end they are still just as lost as they could possibly be. They are lost because the people they are listening to are lost. Davis was lost and the Kekels are lost. The blind lead the blind and all end up in a very deep ditch.

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  134. Anonymous said...
    It's always being about a "program"
    If it isn't their "program" then you're on your way to hell.
    How many times we heard them preach: " get on with the program"
    The soul winning "program"
    Gods "program" but it wasn't about God or about souls or about heaven. It was about furthering and helping "them" to achieve "their dreams" and "their goals


    This is sad but true. We were the means by which RW could reach his goals he formed prior to us even meeting him. Then came the RW wantabees, these were those who reached us and we unwittingly became part of the program. We have a church here in TX called the "Church of Wells" and although is considered a cult due to its over aggressive tactics, I would rather of been a part of them then NTCC. The reason is that they are less a business and more a church then NTCC. The founders are part of the street preaching and do not set themselves on some pedestal as if they are beyond or to good to what the peasants do. When I think of NTCC, I see the AMWAY business model all the way. study it out and see for yourself.

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  135. You never was involved in that program, how can you talk?

    FN was and is dead, because dead beats like you and yours would not pay.

    And Buddy sends his regards from...

    ReplyDelete
  136. Anonymous said...
    "You never was involved in that program, how can you talk"?

    Oh, well then I am in better shape then I thought.

    Anonymous said...
    "FN was and is dead, because dead beats like you and yours would not pay".

    Look how deep Mr. Anonymous is, he speaketh in parables. What this means is that the Financial Network of NTCC is dead because I would not pay my tithe towards the end of my bondage.

    Anonymous said...
    "And Buddy sends his regards from"...

    This is what you call a teaser. Buddy is banking on us wishing we knew where he is from. Sad.

    Interpretation:
    You never were an a** kisser like the rest of us. The Financial Network (FN) is dead partly due to you and your wife not paying up. I have nothing of substance to say so I will spice things up with a teaser because I think you have time to actually care where it is I shave my face.

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  137. Ok, I had my fun all grats to Buddy for my morning entertainment.

    To say we were never involved in that "program" is a freudian slip admitting that NTCC is more of a "program", which, in turn, is ran by those who are programmed by those who created the program. Play me once shame on you, play me twice, shame on me.

    I just don't understand why he would bring such a weak arguement to a sobering forum like this one. FactNet was bustling with life and still speaks from the grave today. To say it was and is dead is like shooting a BB gun at a warship; its just plain weak. True, FN ranout of money partly due to us who were drained prior by the NTCC and were not in a position to help. So you got a point there.

    And, I always wanted to sign out so as to not lend credibility to what I am saying and not be accountable for my remarks I am going to sign out Buddy style.
    Are you dready?

    And Slappy Dog sends his regards from.... (well don't you wish you knew, could it be slappy hill on slappy island, or maybe I am at a slappy hotel sleeping on my slappy bed when I am not sipping non-alcoholic slappy drinks. well I guess you will never know where ole slappy dog is from)

    Created by Bryan David Hill while sipping starbucks coffee enjoying a day off of work, going fishing again, life is good. later.

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  138. "Buddy" said:

    "You never was involved in that program, how can you talk?"

    DNA said:

    We all were involved in the ntcc programs and we have a right to talk. Guess what, buddy, or whoever you are? You can't do a lot to stop us from talking. Your sphere of control ends with the ntcc. Nobody else listens or even cares what you are saying. So, you might as well go back to manipulating the brainwashed suckers that listen to people like you in the ntcc. Continue to pay your Mosaic tithe and you might as well make sure everyone gets circumcised while you are at it. Oh I forgot, that portion of the law isn't kept because you can't profit off of people getting circumcised. If you keep part of the Old Testament law it does you no good, so you better keep all of it. Keep the feasts and the sacrifices also since you don't recognize the New Testament that no longer requires tithe. Tithe was not carried over into the New Testament because Jesus knew that there would be false teachers, and hypocrites like you buddy or whatever your name is. Your masters won't allow you to use your real name and you are too afraid to identify yourself because you don't want to be jacked up. That's alright, we got you covered. You are a snake and a viper just like the Pharisees. But we won't hold that against you. Every time you comment on this blog it verifies what we have been sharing for the last five years and makes the ntcc look stupid, as if they needed your help. So keep on commenting because it proves our point and shows how ignorant people who have been around Davis and Kekel are.

    On a lighter note, perhaps one day "buddy" will see the light and leave. Usually when people visit the blogs for prolonged periods of time they end up seeing the truth and can only suppress it for so long. They have no biblical answers for doing the things that they do, and deep inside they know it's a scam. They remain in the cult for a few years building up the courage to escape and in many cases they end up commenting on the blogs about how great it is to be free once they finally leave. It is very nice to be free from cult indoctrination and man made rules that serve to make a few money hungry cult leaders rich. We hope you continue to comment "buddy", and we hold no grudges or ill will towards you. We will be honest with you and sometimes honesty exposes people who are not transparent. We hope that when you read what is written here that you will let some of it sink in to your heart. People can change. You don't have to spend the rest of your life with a people that care more about what you wear than who you are as a person. You don't have to live your life trying to please men who are more interested in your money than they are in your welfare.

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  139. "Buddy," the NTCC thread at FACTNet didn't die because of lack of financial support; it died because the software was antiquated, so they moved to a new platform that wasn't as user-friendly. Not everything was imported properly, and activity dried up because people couldn't figure the new format out. Eventually they did suspend new posting for lack of money, but I sent them $500, so your "deadbeat" label doesn't apply to me. I got at least that much value from the satisfaction of warning others about your pernicious cult.

    I guess by asserting we "never was involved in that program," you're just rephrasing one of the borg's favorite twistable scriptures: "They went out from us, but they were not of us." Yeah, whatever. We were in the boat all right; why else would we submit to financial plunder and ridiculous life control? Here's the reason we "went out": we figured out the captain was pushing spiritual crack, and we jumped ship. I guess in that sense, we really weren't part of the underlying "program"--ripping others off. Hopefully you'll wake up enough to disembark before you wind up on the rocks, "Buddy."

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  140. Buddy,

    whomever you are I don't mind you posting your thoughts but why are you posting as buddy? Why not post as you or at least let us know something about you?

    I'm guessing you're one of 3 kinds of people...

    1. An EXER that is just having some fun.
    2. Kekel or a Kekel minion that he has direct control of.
    3. Someone who wants to prove their worth to Kekel by saving us from our sins... Or are they policies? Or what is the standard of sin over there anymore?

    Either way you're going to a church with a hypocrite for a leader, a cast of sexual deviants who are now rich because of your stinking misery, and we'll just say criminals and hooligans to cover just about everything else.

    Has Kekel thanked you for his NY Vacation paid for by the Church of Davis?
    What about the Mansions?
    What about the 250,000 dollars for private-college (Catholic) education?
    At least you get to watch football now, from what I understand so that's a plus. If you are a Kekel minion you probably don't have a nice Devil vision that's apparently allowed now cuz that was just policy or some crap like that...
    I have an older 35 inch TV that works just fine but it's about 110 pounds. Just shoot me your address and I'll ship it to you.

    Enjoy all of the Policies you live under now because they'll start going away to add to the congregation of tithers and givers to the Church that Davis built. Don't worry, that money will go to good use. A mansion for the new Senior Administrator (Grant Kekel), a Lexus GS450 for the Senior Administrator. A new Ferrari for the Man of God... Yes it won't be at full cost because he'll trade in that other 6 figure vehicle.

    I'm wondering if there is an example in the New Testament of Jesus, Paul, Peter or any other apostle living large... Oh wait Judas did when he got his 30 pieces of Silver.

    Mike

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  141. 17. Tithes​​
    We recognize the scriptural duty of all our people, as well as ministers, to pay tithes as unto the Lord (Hebrews 7:8). Tithes should be used for the support of the active ministry and for the propagation of the gospel and work of the Lord in general and not given to charity or used for other purposes (Malachi 3:7-11; Hebrews 7:2; 1 Corinthians 9:7-11; 16:2).

    Sound Familiar? This was taken from the Pentecostal Church of God beliefs and was plagiarized word for word by Davis, and can be found on the myntcc blog under beliefs.

    The second item on the ntcc's list of beliefs reads as follows:

    "We believe the Scriptures (The Bible) are the inspired word of God, and are to be taught and believed in their entirety. (2 Tim. 3:16, 2 Pet 1:21)
    The Scriptures give us a complete revelation of God's will and His divine plan of salvation, and that this completely constitutes the rules of Christian faith and practice."

    This raises a question that all ntcc'rs should ask their money hungry leaders. "If you really believe that the the scriptures are the inspired word of God and that they are to be taught and believed in their entirety, Where does it say in these scriptures that tithe was ever intended to be paid outside of the Old Testament law? They are not teaching the scriptures in their entirety. None of the scriptures that they use in their 'belief statement' require tithes to be paid by Gentiles. None of the scriptures in the ntcc's belief statements mention impending judgement being dispersed to non-Jewish post Old Testament law believers for not paying tithe.

    The ntcc's own beliefs are written proof that they are teaching false doctrine. They had to plagiarize their own beliefs from the PCGs because there are not any scriptures to be found in the bible, which they claim to believe in it's entirety), regarding tithe. Not only are they lying about tithe but they are also lying about believing the bible in it's entirety. Wake up before all your money, hopes and dreams are completely stolen by your lying leaders. Do you ever wonder why nobody in the ntcc has ever been able to answer our questions about which scriptures command Christians to pay tithe? Not one person has answered that question without twisting scriptures like Chubby Checker does "The Twist". (click here)

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  142. Man made holiness is another scam that the ntcc has used to exploit and control it's brainwashed followers. They are hypocrites for preaching against TV. I've seen worse things going soul winning on a military installation then I've ever seen watching TV. When you visit people at their houses and in the barracks you are going to see some flesh. Some of the barracks rooms at Fort Bragg displayed nude posters and GI's would be watching porn videos. You can see lascivious people walking down the produce isle in Walmart. If you want to be super spiritual and refrain from watching TV because of the lascivious people, don't go to the DMV, the grocery store or McDonald's. People wear what they wear and it's up to you if you want to lust after them. You can drive down the road and see billboards with scantly clad women advertising everything from beer to lingerie.

    In the time of Christ Men dressed in Robes that looked very similar to what the women were wearing. The ntcc likes to use the Old Testament scripture from Deuteronomy 22:5 to keep women in dresses: "The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the LORD thy God." They didn't wear pant's and dresses back then. They wore women's robes and men's robes. As people evolved and clothing evolved, religious fanatics tried to make rules that would keep women in dresses, but it's not biblical. Holiness doctrine as the ntcc preaches never even came into being until the late 1800's. It was never an issue in the first 18 centuries so why all the sudden are women dangled over hell for a doctrine that never existed during the early church?

    It's all about control and servitude. The ntcc teaches this junk because Davis learned it from other hucksters who wanted complete control over women. You mean to tell me that Davis could wear a diamond pinky ring but a woman can't wear ear rings. They are hypocrites and their doctrine stinks to the high heavens. If you look at women in the ntcc, you will find that they are relegated to servitude. They aren't allowed to have hopes and dreams or aspirations. They have to live like slaves. They aren't involved in any of the decisions that are made. They just have to shut up and do what they are told in the ntcc. If women in the ntcc will wear dresses and follow all the women's rules that were made up by a bunch of narcissists they will do anything that their husbands tell them to do.

    The ntcc is all about placing stumbling blocks in front of people to make Christianity seem impossible. This makes them think that they are part of the very few chosen and select people that will make it into heaven. If you will adhere to the holiness scam you will do anything, like give them large amounts of money.

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  143. This next week is going to set the precedent for Kekel to make his move and for Olson and Johnson to die off in the next 2 years. It's not about "7X Hotter" - it's about extracting 7 times more money from church members, students and ministers. Maybe they'll try to imitate what megachurches are doing to get more numbers, but there is no real zeal behind it. People will go along with Kekel's plans out of a sense of obligation but there heart's won't be in it. Hopefully when they look around they'll see that all this activity is for nothing because they have never given back to their communities, never helped the poor, the fatherless or widows (unless it was for show or to pawn them off to someone else) and never built anything that was not to the promotion of their organization. Would they ever help someone after a natural disaster in the Philippines or Panama? If it isn't to serve them, then they will not help at all. It's never been about promoting the gospel, helping to restore lost and broken people or to give hope, it has been to introduce them to religion enough for them to become obligated to a life of giving to what they deem as important. You need more blacktop? You need another building on that campus? Another mega mansion while your church members and others in the community will go hungry tonight? You would be surprised just how many of them are lust filled, filthy lucre, money and skirt chasing perverts...

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  144. Anonymous said:

    "Would they ever help someone after a natural disaster in the Philippines or Panama?"

    DNA said:

    Sadly, they very seldom will lift a finger to help their own unless something is in it for them. They will absolutely see a brother in need and shut up their bowels of compassion. Not only will they sit back and watch their faithful and loyal members struggle in poverty, but they will absolutely jack them up for not giving. They will blame them for their poverty which would not exist if they were not in the ntcc and giving to it's insatiable leaders. If you aren't successful it's your fault. How is success defined in the ntcc? By money and numbers, only. The disciples were loyal to Jesus but they didn't have much and Jesus didn't plunder them for tithe and offerings.

    In the ntcc, nothing you do is ever good enough. Even if you achieve success by their standards and have money and numbers, they will turn on you. How much more will they despise you if you don't produce money or numbers? There are strings attached with everything you do.

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  145. Good day my fellow 'Mericans.

    You should have seen the look on Grant's face when his Papa told him he was going to attend secular/catholic college after he graduated High School. The boy was just as shocked as I was, but at least I was able to disguise my contempt. I asked myself, why didn't RWD tell me to go to college when I told him I could go for free? Why did he act with disdain anytime I was around him and some church member or minister asked or spoke of attending college?

    My opinion? He was always ever only concerned about one thing, taking care of himself and his family. None of us ever really mattered to that man. If you still can't see it for yourself; maybe you need to honestly pray about it again.

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  146. Anonymous said:

    "I asked myself, why didn't RWD tell me to go to college when I told him I could go for free? Why did he act with disdain anytime I was around him and some church member or minister asked or spoke of attending college?"

    DNA said:

    They are very cold and calculated when it comes to shattering other peoples future endeavors and don't ever expect an apology or an explanation. Kekel and Olson are far to arrogant to apologize or even explain the double standards that they lived by. This is what makes them truly evil. It would be one thing if they acknowledged that they mistreated people but they have very calloused hearts and it's beneath their dignity to admit that they were wrong. Kekel will always try to justify his actions like he attempted to do when asked on his blog about vacations. Any time he gets called out on his blog and tries to defend his actions, he ends up bringing more attention to the double standards that he tries to justify. Most of the ministers that were in the ntcc were slaves to the borg and were too busy serving their sentences to visit their immediate families.

    Now is a great time to abandon ship before you go down with it. You could stay in the ntcc for the rest of your life, pay your tithe and watch Kekel get rich if you want to. If you are worried about your congregation and any souls that you might lose, you aren't doing them any favors by requiring them to live by ntcc false doctrines. They would be better off if you convinced them to leave and find a Catholic church like Grant. Davis knew that the ntcc was a scam and he was never interested in getting people saved. The Kekels are just as bad. If you think they are in it for souls, you are sadly mistaken. It's all about the almighty dollar for Kekel.

    Escape! Escape!

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  147. Kekel and Olson can't escape the Vikings 2-1 record after giving the Chargers a pounding. We're going to kill the Bronco with our Defense and AP...

    We will see you soon Kekel and Olson, cuz you're on our schedule and we are the nail in your coffin.

    BOOOOOMMMMMM

    Mike

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  148. Anonymous said,

    "I asked myself, why didn't RWD tell me to go to college when I told him I could go for free? Why did he act with disdain anytime I was around him and some church member or minister asked or spoke of attending college?"

    DNA say,

    davis was a very insecure man. He didn't want anyone around him who was more accomplished than he was. davis claimed to have college degrees, yet even mike and tanya kekel admitted they had never seen any diplomas. davis made many fanciful claims that nobody can prove. Our opinion is that he was an insecure huckster.

    Look at his vehicles. davis always had to have "the best". Nobody would dare upstage him.

    It was the same with clothing, mansions, physical possessions, time in the pulpit, etc.

    Again, our opinion is he's really just a base, little and insecure man.

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