While visiting the Facebook page entitled James Ashmore's Commentary I noticed that he has made some changes, or given his page a face lift. He recently has visited and liked a Facebook page called "Jews for Messiah". Not only did JRA "Like" the Facebook page, but he also replaced the banner on his Facebook page, (James Ashmore's Commentary), with the banner from the "Jews for Messiah" Facebook page and shared pictures from their page. You might say big deal, who cares? Well it seems to me that JRA has spent the greater part of the last four decades preaching against other cults and churches and has been a big supporter of the ntcc being the last move of God on planet earth. The Jews for Messiah Facebook "About" page gives the description of what their Facebook page is all about: "Discussing the long-awaited Messiah promised in the Tanakh."
This word is defined as:
Tanakh is an acronym of the first Hebrew letter of each of the Masoretic Text's three traditional subdivisions: Torah ("Teaching", also known as the Five Books of Moses), Nevi'im ("Prophets") and Ketuvim ("Writings")—hence TaNaKh. Basically the Old Testament of the bible makes up what they are calling the Tanakh. - Wikipedia
Tanakh is an acronym of the first Hebrew letter of each of the Masoretic Text's three traditional subdivisions: Torah ("Teaching", also known as the Five Books of Moses), Nevi'im ("Prophets") and Ketuvim ("Writings")—hence TaNaKh. Basically the Old Testament of the bible makes up what they are calling the Tanakh. - Wikipedia
Apparently they are still waiting for the coming of this Messiah; because the whole purpose of their Facebook page is to discuss the long-awaited Messiah. This group that Ashmore seems to like well enough to pattern his own page after is very secretive like the ntcc and Ashmore. They say that they will not argue about what they believe in. Any attempts to argue will result in you being 'unfriended', which is Facebook vernacular for 'disfellowshipped'. They seem to profess Christianity without mentioning Christ. They seem to believe in the bible but call it the Torah. If they are still discussing the long awaited arrival of the Messiah that was spoken of in the Old Testament, they need to get their noses in the New Testament and read all about it. Don't hide it behind a shroud of secrecy and call it something else. This secretive tactic reminds us of the "movement" called the Hebrew Roots Movement.
Let's take a deeper look at the Hebrew Roots Movement. First of all, it can only be traced back to the early twentieth century. That means from 1 A.D. to 1901 that everyone else was in darkness because they didn't have this doctrine. Much like the Holiness doctrine that the ntcc teaches, "holiness" sprung up out of nowhere in the 18th and 19th centuries. The Hebrew Roots Heresy sprang out of nowhere in the early part of last century and had its most profound impact when the organization called the World Wide Church of God began to teach Hebrew Roots Doctrine. The founder of the Hebrew Roots Doctrine according to Wiki was Herbert W. Armstrong, (HWA) who was the RWD of the Hebrew Roots Movement. Shortly after Armstrong's death in 1984, the doctrine was modified to be compatible with mainstream Evangelical Christianity. Imagine that, folks, it was changed. This is what Kekel is trying to do with the ntcc. By taking the old definitions of "holiness" out of the church bylaws, which were instituted by RWD, Kekel is attempting to make the ntcc's religion compatible with modern Christianity. But let's consider this a little bit. If the Hebrew Roots Movement is correct that would have to mean that all of the Christians were wrong from the early church all the way until the Hebrew Roots Movement got it right after changing it to fit in with modern Christianity in the late 1980's. Out of the World Wide Church of God you will find a whole bunch of splinter groups that have the same COG, (Church of God) suffix but they have done away with much of the Hebrew Roots Movement. Now one large faction of the movement calls themselves 119 ministries.
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| Not only does the New Testament not command Torah-observance. The New Testament teaches AGAINST Torah-observance. Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days" The 119 Ministries (A large group within the Hebrews Roots Movement) teaches these false doctrines. |
What does the Hebrew Roots Heresy teach? Well I'm glad you asked. First of all they have removed Jesus from the equation by renaming him. Jesus is now called Yashua. If you were to go to a 119 ministries cult meeting and say the name Jesus, it would be like going to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting and saying: "My name is Don and I USED to be an Alcoholic". In the AA group meetings, you will be an Alcoholic until the day you die even if you never take a sip for the rest of your life. Saying that you USED to be an Alcoholic makes you a heretic to them. I know, because I actually attended one of their meetings with a friend and said that. They were all appalled and excoriated me for saying that. We are talking about taking Jesus out of Christianity. "None other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved". Acts 4:12 There's one huge red flag for you. They also keep the Sabbath and many of the Old Testament Feasts. They have a diet which is considered to be a vegetarian diet by many; and they like to grow beards. But they have a whole dictionary full of cult jargon that they use to describe their beliefs; and if you don't have a translator of Hebrew Roots words than you are going to have to rely on the Church leadership's honesty and integrity to steer you in the right direction. Sound Familiar? They also teach mostly old testament doctrine. The Jews for Messiah Facebook 'About' page states their purpose fairly plainly. They are still waiting for the coming of the Long-awaited Messiah; who apparently has yet to come. The purpose of the Hebrew Roots Movement or Heresy is to convert Christians into Jews. If you were to do a Google search on the Hebrew Roots Movement you would find a whole bunch of anti-HRM blogs that warn you not to join that cult.
Christ's Gospel vs. Hebrew Roots YouTube
Ashmore is really out there spiritually. He is doing this stuff in broad daylight. Now, we understand that the majority of the ntcc'rs and Ashmorgites all think we are 'of the devil' because we speak out against these cults. Please, please, please do yourself a huge favor and do a little bit of research before signing up for a new cult. Now Ashmore has just been put in the position of having to do damage control. He either has to deny that the Jews for Messiah group is part of the Hebrew Roots Movement which by all accounts they don't deny, or try to convince people that this new movement is not a cult, or he might just play the ignorance card and say he went there because he likes the pictures. There are some folks on JRA's friends list that are part of the HRM and I wouldn't be surprised if JRA rolls up his sleeves and dives in head first, but you can't say that we didn't warn you.
I have a friend who used to be in the ntcc for maybe 2 or 3 years, who got out and remained a Christian and was a big part of his own church back home. He became a youth minister and had a great life ahead of him. Recently he told me about the 119 ministries and started throwing around terms like Yashua, Y'shua and Torah. I tried to reason with him, but there was no changing his mind. He already started growing the beard, (like Ashmore), and he was on the diet and he was keeping the feasts and all the other sacraments and beliefs that are kept by the 119 ministries of the Hebrew Roots Movement. Talk about jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire!
They are also a lot like Dawkins, Marx and Charles Taz Russell (other cult leaders) in that they don't believe in Christmas. RWD was the Grinch that stole Christmas away from what was left of the Norton Family after he coordinated the Matriarch, Barbara Norton Warwick's abandonment of her 15 year old pregnant-by-rape daughter, Lisa and her special needs brother, Terry, leaving them in an empty house that was pillaged by Davis to include the removal of their Christmas tree and presents. Ashmore finished it off by labeling Lisa and her friend Lori as whores and sluts and leaving them bereft of friends and family. I wonder if it hurt the feelings of those girls to have a so-called minister call them sluts and whores from the pulpit? This is the guy that many of you are choosing to follow. Can such a person be saved and capable of leading people to Christ and Heaven? Anything is possible, but I'm certainly not wanting to experiment with a new splinter group of the ntcc.
And just to be clear about how we feel about any of God's chosen people (the Jews):
ReplyDelete1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved. 2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. [Rom 10:1-3 KJV]
4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down [from above]:) 7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; 9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [Rom 10:4-11 KJV]
ReplyDeleteHere's an interesting testimony from a Jewish man who claims Jesus as his Messiah:
ReplyDeleteMottel Baleston I Met Messiah click here
or copy and paste
http://www.imetmessiah.com/index.php/testimonies/mordechai-baleston
He had been taught that the New Testament was a handbook of how to persecute the Jews. He had been taught that the Jews had their bible (Old Testament); and the Gentiles (non Jews) had their bible (New Testament); and they were two separate entities. The Gentiles he was familiar with were Italian Catholics, so he thought Jesus was an Italian man. When he read Matthew and learned that Jesus was a Jew, it was a great shock.
Great testimony.
It teaches us that people have ideas that have been handed down to them or taught to them. But we need the Word of God to prove what is correct.
Wow, have ashmore changed his faith? He seems lost. Maybe he should humble himself to kekel and ntcc and return to the place where he hurt many brothers, and sisters. Ashmore took the cowards way out, he waited until davis died in order to leave ntcc.
ReplyDeleteMaurice said:
ReplyDelete"Wow, have ashmore changed his faith? He seems lost."
DNA said:
It's actually pretty sad. Ashmore is like a ship without a compass. He spent his whole life jacking people up if they didn't believe in the ntcc doctrine that he was trying to sell to them. He preached against anyone who had a different opinion than that of RWD. Ashmore locked himself into this organization and served Davis with all loyalty, doing things that were wrong and hurting people until Davis died. Less than a year after Davis died, Ashmore decides that Kekel is not sharing glory. So he leaves and at the same time, he gets the revelation that we all got and that was that the ntcc was a cult. You can read Ashmore's words and he says what we have been saying for quite some time about the ntcc. Only he is considered by many to be the next great move, while we were always considered to be the nastiest of all the bloggers.
That's okay though, because Ashmore seems to be showing his true colors. He has denounced the ntcc doctrine that he preached for over 4 decades and now he doesn't know what to believe in. He seems to be dabbling in the Hebrew Roots Movement which is another big time cult. How mixed up in the mind can you get? If you are in the ntcc, and you are thinking about joining Ashmore, all we can do is sound the alarm. We know that many of you are incapable of pastoring a church without some kind of support structure and Ashmore seems like the best solution to your problem, but I would caution you to beware of wolves in sheeps clothing.
Now they might say the same thing about us, but we are not trying to get anyone to follow us and we are not trying to get your money. We would like you to remain a Christian, but we know that the ntcc and the Ashmorites are a snare to your soul. If you are serious about staying in the ministry but you feel guilty placing the ntcc's demands on those who you love, Speak to them and out of love explain the situation. Tell them that you are going to continue to have bible studies in your living room or in one of your members houses if they are willing to stay with you. God doesn't care about a building. You can get a building at a later date if the few members want a building and are willing to chip in and pay for one, but don't demand it of them. Give them freedom and see how they prosper according to the fruit of their own labor. Jesus very seldom used the temple to preach in. He preached on the mountainside and anywhere anyone would listen to him.
So many ministers in the ntcc have been conditioned to think that they are a failure. The numbers that you have are not representative of your own personal failure. You were set up to fail. You might think that others have prospered but I can say with a whole lot of certainty that the ones that prospered in the ntcc are the ones that did it their own way. The ones that tried to do exactly what Davis taught them to do not only failed, but they blamed themselves for their failure. Guess what? You didn't fail, you just were loyal and misguided. You thought that you were going to build a great congregation and have OPM (Other Peoples Money) dripping from you like Kekel or Ashmore, but if you place yourself under all of the contradicting teachings of the ntcc, you will find it's impossible to be a successful minister of the Gospel in the ntcc.
ReplyDeleteDon't blame yourself anymore. Look around you and see that the ntcc is crumbling around you. Some of the most humble and good natured Christ like ministers that were in the ntcc, never prospered like Denis, Ashmore or Davis. They were not cut from the same mold and the ntcc was not worthy of them. They didn't treat people like they were a number on a report or a stream of income to add to the wealth of the elitists in Graham. I know that there are still good people in the ntcc, but the environment is never going to benefit them. Once your members go to BS in Graham, WA, you will no longer be able to help them and Kekel will manipulate most of them if not all of them. They will learn the ways of the ntcc leadership and will become victims of false hope and years of undeserved loyalty given to people who do not have God's best interest in their hearts or their minds.
ANON Mike,
ReplyDeleteThis is the weirdest thing I've read so far with the exception of Cats being of the devil. What is going on?
It's almost funny if it weren't so depressing.
We are paying particularly close attention to the Ashmore camp because even though it may seem great that he's helping to tear down the ntcc, we also recognize that people are in grave danger if they hop from one cult to another. We are not advocating that people stop going to church or that they stop serving God or living for Christ. We have always encouraged people to ditch the cult, (ntcc), but keep the faith.
ReplyDeleteWhen we see Ashmore joining up with a secretive group that promotes the doctrine of the Hebrew Roots Movement, it raises red flags but it does not surprise me. People are looking for someone else to follow. Ashmore followed Davis for many years. It's disturbing to see very little change in him, yet so many people flocking to him. People have itching ears. They want to follow and the ntcc ministers are so used to being beat down and believing things are their fault that they don't trust in their own ability in God to continue in the ministry without following someone like Davis or Ashmore. Who is Ashmore following? Now that he has left the ntcc and denounced their doctrine, what does he really believe in? Sure he preaches Christ Crucified and that message will never come back void because it contains God's word, but that's the same thing that the ntcc does. However, the ntcc only uses salvation as a front, a friendly face to hide a multitude of sins committed by their leadership. So if Ashmore has denounced holiness and other doctrines that now make the ntcc out to be the great whore, what does he preach? We only know what he wants us to know and that is the sermons that he preaches and posts on Youtube publicly.
We don't know if he preaches tithe or hell doctrine or how hard he hits people up for money, how guilty he makes them feel. We don't know how big his mansion is or how nice his car is or how big his church building really is. No transparency hides his true colors. We know from the ntcc that not telling the whole truth actually keeps the truth supressed. We had to make a trip out there to Graham just to take pictures and many people were shocked at all the wealth and riches that they had tied up in their own estates and other real estate that they have accumulated.
Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. If you get conned a second time, there is not much we can do.
To the Anonymous person who left the insulting comment: You are right, I don't have to post your comment and I won't until you become man enough to own your comment. The days of drive by snipers on this blog are over. If you have something that is objective to say and you publish anonymously, you might get some consideration and your comment might get published. If you want have a bunch of snarky and insulting remarks that you wish to get published, good luck. Find another outlet for your anger.
ReplyDeleteThis is an X-er blog. We don't care if you think it's fair or not. We are not here to please the mob or to bottle feed people who aren't ready for the plain truth. If you make an accusation without doing your homework please don't expect it to get published. Now we have made mistakes in the past and when we have become aware of those mistakes we have acknowledged them. People have come on this blog and accused us of lying because we have published the testimonies of others. Calling us liars, or calling the victims of ntcc abuse liars, doesn't make it a lie. Therefore, if you come on this blog and start throwing around 25 cent words to describe us, we reserve the right to hit the delete button. If you want to own your comment and put a name on it like a man or woman, we'll probably publish it, unless it is totally without substance.
Not everyone who observes the feasts or uses Yaweh as Gods name are out there. Some of us are Christian, but are Jewish/ Israeli sympathizers.
ReplyDeleteA lot of people out there do not really understand what the Hebrew Roots Movement is all about. They don't deny Jesus, nor do they deny that Jesus is the Messiah. We have never said that Ashmore has denied that Jesus is the Son of God. What we did was point out how Ashmore liked the Facebook page of a group called Jews for Messiah. Not only did he like the group but he shared a couple of the pictures from the Group and he also replaced the banner on his facebook page with the same picture from the one on the Jews for Messiah page. Thanks to an anonymous post that came in early tonight that I chose not to publish, I looked carefully at the picture. The picture is the same with one small detail. Ashmore's picture says Jesus Messiah, on it while the group that he likes so much that he advertises for them has photo shopped the Jesus out of their picture. This is even more damning for Ashmore to associate his Jesus Revival Ministries with a group that photo shopped Jesus off of their logo.
ReplyDeleteIf you have Facebook and you type in Jews for Messiah in the search box you can clearly see that there is a smudge where the word Jesus used to be on their Banner while the word Jesus is on James Ashmore's Commentary. Ashmore spent the better part of 40 years screaming at the top of his lungs about churches that preached a different gospel than the ntcc and condemning people for leaving the ntcc. I remember him foaming at the mouth, and saying, "They went out from us, because they were not all of us. They were not all saved. They were not all filled with the Holy Ghost". And on and on and on.
The Hebrew Roots movement still admits that Jesus is Messiah, but they prefer to call Him Yashua. The Jews for Messiah group appears to still be waiting for Yashua to come, because apparently they didn't get the memo that Jesus already died on the Cross. What makes them a cult is that they require their members to keep Old Testament feasts, Old Testament diets and they grow beards and all kinds of other cultish things. Nowhere in our blogpost do we accuse Ashmore of being part of the Hebrew Roots Movement, but we draw attention to the fact that he is closely associating himself and his group that appears to align itself with the Hebrew Roots Movement. While Ashmore was in the ntcc he Preached vehemently against all other churches just like Davis did. I've heard him preach on many of his tapes about the Catholics and other groups. We are mainly pointing out how flakey Ashmore is and the double standard that he is presenting through his actions. To those that are involved in the Ashmore love fest that is taking place, you should be looking into this stuff for yourselves. Many of you ministers just spent decades in a cult and now you are getting ready to follow one of the biggest cult leaders in the history of the ntcc into his own little splinter group. Don't listen to us if you don't want to, but use your own brain and look at the big picture. Does it really make sense?
Fyi said...
ReplyDeleteNot everyone who observes the feasts or uses Yaweh as Gods name are out there. Some of us are Christian, but are Jewish/ Israeli sympathizers.
DNA said:
Why teach the law and expect people to keep it if it has been fulfilled in Christ? The Jews for the most part have rejected Christ with the exception of a small number of Christians. What is a Christian? It is someone who is born again in Christ. If we are born again what need is there for us to go back into the bondage of the law? Colossians 2:16 "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days". Why is it then that if you have found freedom in Christ, that you want to keep the feasts of the Old Testament? If you are trying to be like God's people, well, sorry to say this, but most of the feast keepers do not even believe in Jesus. If you look at the majority of the Jews, they don't even believe that Jesus was the Savior. They are still waiting for the Savior to come. That's why they crucified Jesus. It makes no sense to subject yourself to parts of the Old Testament law if you are not going to keep all of it. It's all in the Bible. We are not making it up, read the New Testament and find us one scripture that tells us to keep the feasts. We don't care if you call Jesus Yaweh Yashua, or the Messiah. Christianity doesn't forbid what tongue you worship him in, but it does clearly show us that the Old Testament Law was done away with when Christ died. His blood became the sacrifice, and when He rose again he conquered sin and death so now we live by grace through faith in Jesus. It's really pretty simple, but for some reason ($$$$$), people want to make their own religions, so they can take up their own offerings, and fleece their flocks for the enrichment of their own lives, ($$$$$).
Except it, Rev. Ashmore a man of God that you hate, is befriending your friends. See what God does through him before you attack him. You should watch his videos and see what God does to your hearts. Why don't you step back watching the ship sail instead of the moment you see the ship try to sink it. Think about it today could be the day you see a miracle in your life by his devotion.
ReplyDelete*Footnote from DNA: This comment has been amended and re-posted. We removed a couple of names from it because we don't think that the author of this comment is representing them fairly and we don't publish names on our blog because an Ashmorgite wants us to.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"Except it, Rev. Ashmore a man of God that you hate, is befriending your friends."
DNA said:
I don't hate Ashmore, but I hate his deeds just like Jesus hated the deeds of the Nicolaitans. When I started blogging I mentioned Ashmore out of respect and said that he needed to take a stand because there was nobody willing to take a stand against the ntcc. Of all the board members I felt he would have the most impact. Unfortunately after I made that challenge to him, we started learning about his actions pertaining to the Moreno's. We then learned about his role in Lisa and Lori's lives. Then we heard about how he treated Bro. Ken. Are all these people lying about Ashmore?
As for Ashmore being a man of God, that remains to be seen. If he were a man of God, he would come clean and make things right with the people he has hurt. There would be at least a sliver of remorse for the ones he has left shipwrecked.
As for Ashmore befriending people; I assume you are talking about Facebook friends. I haven't really seen a big difference in the lives of anyone that Ashmore has befriended on Facebook. He also liked a Jewish group that photo shopped Jesus off of it's Facebook Banner and claims to still be waiting for the Messiah. Man of God? Really? If the people he is befriending move to San Diego and Join Ashmore's cult, I'll become a little concerned, but being a Facebook friend is not like they are willing to lay their lives down for Ashmore.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"You should watch his videos and see what God does to your hearts."
DNA said:
Funny you should say that. I actually looked at some of the Asmore videos; at least as many as I could stomach. I was looking for the one where Ashmore apologizes to Lisa and Lori for running them out of the church at Davis's request, calling them sluts and whores. I couldn't find it anywhere. I also looked for the video that Ashmore made that would apologize to Bro. Ken, for publicly humiliating him while harboring two admittingly gay church members. All Bro. Ken wanted was to marry the mother of his child and for her to be accepted. Couldn't find that apology either. Couldn't find one for Julie and I couldn't find one for the Morenos.
So lets just pretend that all these people were lying about Ashmore. If that were the case then MDR would have to have been lying about Ashmore also, because he is the one that gave the account of the Moreno tragedy. I don't think they all were lying, but if they were, how come Ashmore hasn't made a video where he denies all of these allegations to clear his name? The only thing that we have heard through the grapevine is that Ashmore blames everyone else.
I also looked for a video of Ashmore admitting his role in the ntcc and apologizing for the wake of destruction that he left behind him while he was considered to be the "Preaching Machine". I couldn't find that video either. Then I looked for a video that would show some transparency. Surely an eX ntcc Board member would want to change his image if he truly repented. Ashmore used to own or live in that hideous *Pink* mansion with the Jacuzzi at the expense of all of us tithe paying suckers. Wouldn't a repentant con artist want to be forth coming with his new flock and show them where all the money is going? Didn't see that video.
What I did see, is what Ashmore wanted me to see and what he wants all of you to see. "Look at me, I'm preaching salvation". That's nothing new. He did the same thing in the ntcc, he was just a little more obnoxious about it. I'm not impressed when I see Ashmore preaching in front of the backdrop of the San Diego coast line. I'm not impressed that Ashmore and his goons are filming themselves interacting with a transvestite. I didn't see any genuine concern about that person's soul, it was more of a judgmental ntcc "I'm better than you" attitude. The Youtube videos that Ashmore is making are being made so that people like Anonymous can see what they want to see and what Ashmore wants them to see.
Anonymous said:
ReplyDelete"Think about it today could be the day you see a miracle in your life by his devotion."
DNA said:
I'm not going to hold my breath on that one, anonymous. By the way, why are you Ashmorgites and ntcc'rs so afraid to sign your name to what you write? Are you going to get in trouble if yo master finds out? Are you ashamed of who you are? The X-ers that have come forward and shared their names on this blog are all much braver than you are. The victims of ntcc crimes have all come forward and shared their names because their stories are true. You hit and run fearful and secretive posers too ashamed to say who you are. I'll believe someone who says they've been raped by ntcc board members over you. You can't even own your own accusations and your own personal attacks.
Do you think that I might see a miracle in my life if I watch one of Ashmore's videos? You are out there Anonymous, somewhere between the Outer limits and the Twilight zone.
Sorry, I'm not trying to turn Ashmore's name into a curse word. If I left out the h, it was unintentional. I'm serious about that. Sorry.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said...
ReplyDelete"Except it, Rev. Ashmore a man of God that you hate, is befriending your friends. See what God does through him before you attack him. You should watch his videos and see what God does to your hearts. Why don't you step back watching the ship sail instead of the moment you see the ship try to sink it. Think about it today could be the day you see a miracle in your life by his devotion."
DNA say,
I'm not sure who it is bending so low to worship Ashmore; but really, you just shouldn't do that:
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See [thou do it] not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. [Rev 19:10 KJV]
Then saith he unto me, See [thou do it] not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. [Rev 22:9 KJV]
For thou shalt worship no other god: for the LORD, whose name [is] Jealous, [is] a jealous God: [Exo 34:14 KJV]
God saves.
God heals.
God alone gets the glory.
Anything else is just idolatry.
D/A
ReplyDeleteI think a lot of people try to post stuff to get a rise out of us. I think it's a red herring when people say Ashmore is a Man of God.
So far I haven't seen any difference in Ashmore or the ntcc. Ashmore preaches the same things that the ntcc preaches 90% of the time. But what you see in his public Youtube videos is what he wants you to see. The ntcc is the same way. If you go to a Sunday morning service in Anytown, USA, you will see preachers behind ntcc pulpits carrying on just like Ashmore, with the exception that they are not as polished. For me and for many of us who have been duped and made the life mistake of joining the ntcc, we would like to see some transparency, some honesty and some down to earth humility out of a man who claims to have regrets about his past affiliation with the ntcc.
ReplyDeleteYou ever go fishing and catch a fish that's not worth skinning and cleaning? What do you do? You throw it back. Have you ever been lucky enough to catch the same fish twice? Or it seems like every time you cast out in the same spot you are catching the same size Blue Gill fish over and over? What do you do? It's time to find a different fishing hole.
It didn't work the first time so why keep going back to that same hole where all the same small fish are hanging out. They are not worth the effort that it takes to clean and cook them. Go find a spot where the big fish are biting and reel in some trout or some large mouth Bass.
In the ntcc we were not allowed to be who we wanted to be. We were beat down and held back in so many ways. Think about it. If there is a God in heaven does he want you to be a peasant for the ntcc rich and famous preachers for the rest of your life? Do you think God saved you so you could make people like Ashmore richer than they already are while you struggle to make ends meet? I don't see any change in Ashmore. He carries himself just like he did in the ntcc. The preachers in the ntcc strive to become rich just like him. It's still all about money. I don't care how eloquent he comes across in his videos, I still see the same throw back religion that benefits those at the top of the pyramid while everyone else struggles to get by. I believe there is a God in heaven, but he doesn't expect us to shine Ashmore's Shoes or to say yes sir, yes sir three bags full to Kekel as they continue to heap to themselves riches, while you live out the rest of your days in poverty.
For those out there that are looking for someone to follow, it would serve you better to follow someone whose life speaks louder than their words. The ntcc was built on corruption, yet we witnessed what we thought was the greatest preaching on earth. The world is full of great orators. Joel Osteen, James Bakker, R.W. Davis, Oral Roberts, James Ashmore, Jimmy Swaggart, A.A. Allen they all could rock the crowd. Their ministries brought in millions to their prospective churches and people would flock to see and hear them preach. Some of these preachers have a lot in common. Some of them were more corrupt than others. Some of them saw questionable visions like Oral Roberts vision of a 40 foot Jesus or RWD's vision of Christians being beheaded in the St. Louis Ram's Stadium. All of them preached Jesus Christ Crucified, and many got saved under their ministries. Some of them allegedly committed adultery, Molested children and were visited by prostitutes. It was said of A.A. Allen that they had to sober him up before his sermons to get him behind the pulpit to preach. What do they all have in common? Unlike Jesus, They have charged people for the privilege of hearing the Gospel. They have prospered off of other people's suffering. I see nothing wrong if all prosper, but when one man prospers greatly off of the hard work and labor of others who sacrifice and do without, I don't see Christ in that.
ReplyDeleteWhat you see is what you get. What you hear is a different story. You have to ask yourself the question, "Who benefits from Ashmore's ministry"? "Who benefit's from Kekel's ministry"? You might say that as long as people are getting saved that's all that matters. What happens to that soul that gets saved. Are they trained to give away their futures so that a preacher can live comfortably? Are they manipulated and controlled by the master brainwasher? Are their relationships controlled?
Ashmore's Jesus Rivival Ministry sounds like a great thing to many of you ntcc'rs that are straddling the fence, and I do understand the appeal. You have been conditioned not only to follow people like Davis and Ashmore all your adult lives, but you also have been conditioned to believe that every failure you have experienced is your fault. It's your fault that you have over $5,000.00 going out every month but only $4,500.00 coming in. If you were a leader, you would be able to put things together. Meanwhile your money, and the members of your church's money is going towards making an eloquent speaker rich. You are paying for buildings that have already been paid for 3 times over and giving in offerings that nobody benefits from.
When you consider all that, Ashmore looks like a good alternative but we would caution you to look at his feet to see which direction he is walking before believing his eloquent speach. Don't be deceived by his spiritual appeal. You've been down that path, and it only leads to heart ache.
ANON MIKE
ReplyDeleteJust saw the HBO documentary "Going Clear". Totally worth it if you've been involved with an abusive religion. It's very eerie how similar their tactics are.
Oops, it was brought to our attention that we had the wrong dimensions on the Oral Roberts Jesus sighting. It did happen quite some time ago, no malicious intent on my part. It turns out that Oral Roberts claimed to have seen a 900 foot Jesus. If we were trying to be deceptive or malicious, or purposely lie about someone else's lie, Jesus would have ended up being taller than 900 feet. You don't willfully deceive people by under exaggerating the truth. When people tell fish stories, you don't out do the other persons fish story by saying your fish was smaller. For instance, if one guy says, "I caught a trout that was 3 feet long." The other guy is not going to say, "Oh yeah? I caught a trout that was 3 inches long".
ReplyDeleteWe know that mistakes might not happen in your perfect world, but they do happen in mine from time to time. We are more than glad to make corrections if we make a mistake. Are you?
Sometimes people strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. I've learned that perfection is not realistic and the ones that expect it of you are big time hypocrites because they don't hold themselves to the same standards that they expect you to keep. That's why they are referred to on the blogs as double standard hypocrites.
ReplyDeleteThe ntcc is full of double standard hypocrites. They search the blogs to find one little inconsistency and when they have found it, they try to discount everything that is shared. But very few will hold themselves to that same standard and if someone leaves a comment that implicates the ntcc leaders in some sexual impropriety, than all the sudden you need to have witnesses, signed statements, notarized documents or video evidence. We have reported at least seven accounts of severe abuse not that we are not guilty of fabricating, but that different people have testified about. Yet some people would rather accuse us of wrong doing than to believe the victims.
Our only crime is reporting what people have shared. Every person that we have stood behind has a name and every one of them with the exception of the Moreno family who is no longer around to verify their testimony has signed their name to their account of ntcc abuse. The ntcc however, are not man enough to use their names to refute the accusations that we have shared. They'll come on here and insult us, and call us fabricators of lies and traffickers of untruth, but they don't even have the backbone to sign their name to their accusations. They definitely have no proof to refute what has been shared. They act guilty for a reason. Any self respecting ministry or minister that has been falsely accused would do everything they could to clear their names. Not the ntcc. Not Ashmore.
The victims of abuse that have come forward on our blog have dates and time periods, names and other witnesses that have come forward and verified parts of their testimonies. The ntcc doesn't even do anything to clear their name. They have not denied anything that has been shared on this blog. They continue to abuse people because as long as they have absolute control over their cult members and as long as they have people to do their dirty work for them by casting doubt on the victims testimonies, they will continue to abuse. Why do people hate us so much for what we share? The only thing that will stop them is if people go to the police with their testimonies and if they do it in a timely fashion.
That being said, we are not going to accuse the victims. As long as the ntcc is silent and the victims keep coming forward we are going to side with them. They are the ones with everything to lose and nothing to gain. They have sacrificed their anonymity and have spoke out against family and friends. They have shared the deepest darkest secrets of their hearts in spite of family and friends hating them for it.
We are here for them, not to war against those who find fault with them. We desire the truth and have spent many hours on the phone talking to the victims of Davis, Kekel, Olson and Ashmore and others. We have corresponded through email and done our homework to get things right. If someone comes on our blog with a comment that verifies what they have shared, and we have no reason to believe that it's not who they say they are, we will always side with the ones who had no voice in the ntcc. The ntcc has their platform and they have used it over and over again to destroy people and they get rich while they do it. That doesn't make us liars or traffickers of untruth, it means that we believe the victims more than we believe the ntcc liars. The ntcc liars are too ashamed to even say their own names because they don't want to be associated with the lies they are telling.
Give the guy a break! You left, he left. Ya'll on the same level.
ReplyDeleteThat man calls heavens attention when he preaches, like it or not.
Some got their feelings hurt, OK.....move on!
If he is guilty, OK. God still honors his preaching. You can't argue with that.....2004 Graham, WA confirms that!
Let him move on and do a work! You guys are doing yours!
Please post this as I will sign this!
Mark Breaux
Mark Breaux said...
ReplyDeleteGive the guy a break! You left, he left. Ya'll on the same level.
That man calls heavens attention when he preaches, like it or not.
Some got their feelings hurt, OK.....move on!
DNA said:
Hey Mark, thanks for commenting. We do appreciate the fact that you put your name on your comment and that you left an opposing view without slandering us. We get a lot of hate comments which we don't post either. When someone leaves their name and slanders us, or preaches at us, we don't give them a platform either. Chief is the same way, he don't like to be preached at. Leaving a name is a plus, but we also are not here to entertain accusatory comments with no substance.
I don't consider leaving the ntcc a prerequisite that makes us all even. Denis embezzled a lot of money and took a bunch of ministers and church members with him when he left. I left completely devastated under the delusion that I was going to spend eternity in the lake of fire and that there was no hope for my soul and I was completely broke with no friends. Ashmore left on his own terms, having fleeced many flocks over the years and accumulating wealth, he also has a lot of people who followed him out. Right now I consider him to be as much of a danger as the ntcc.
There are many people out there who believe exactly the same way you do. He's a great preacher, he preaches salvation, everyone loves him. Did leaving the ntcc make him any different than he was before he left? Did leaving the ntcc make him any different than Denis? We are not the only bloggers who don't trust Ashmore and we are not the only ones that are warning people about him so I hope your focus on this topic will extend to the others also. We wouldn't want to present a double standard.
I'm hoping that you are sincere, Mark, and that you just haven't thought things out. Roland Moreno was excoriated by Ashmore for doing the right thing and reporting Phil Kinson's visit to the whorehouse. It allegedly drove him to an triple murder suicide. Ashmore was nothing more than a spiritual assassin for Davis. Real people have testified of Ashmore's involvement in the destruction of their lives. Ashmore hasn't made any attempt to make things right with those people. Are they all lying? Do you have children Mark? Do you have a daughter? How would you like it if she got raped at 14 years old? Lisa was a brave Girl but her mother was a child abuser. The founder of the ntcc was feeling up Lisa's older sister who was 16 at the time and married to the man who raped her younger sister. So that Davis could hide his own sin, he moved Lisa's sister and rapist husband to Washington, and then influenced Lisa's mother to abandon Lisa when she needed a mother. At the request of R.W. Davis, Barbara Norton Warwick took everything she could get her hands on out of the house and abandoned Lisa leaving her special needs crippled brother with Lisa. Davis then dispatched Ashmore to finish Lisa off. Ashmore made sure that young Lisa would never cause another problem for Davis by getting up behind the pulpit and Calling Lisa and her best friend Lori whores and sluts.
If Lisa were your daughter would you hold the same opinion of Ashmore? I don't care how great he preaches. There were a lot of preachers that could "call heaven's attention" in the ntcc. We are going to continue to side with the victims of abuse, and until Ashmore truly repents and makes it right with those victims, we are not going to be the first ones to shy away from him.
Mark Breaux said:
ReplyDelete"Some got their feelings hurt, OK.....move on!"
and
"God still honors his preaching. You can't argue with that.....2004 Graham, WA confirms that!
Let him move on and do a work! You guys are doing yours!"
DNA said:
I'm not sure how often you read our blog or how much you know about how Ashmore was used as a tool to destroy people. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. I'm also puzzled at exactly where you are coming from. Do you believe the victims that have come forward along with the testimony of MDR that links Ashmore to the Moreno tragedy? Or do you believe them and think that Ashmore has repented and deserves to continue to represent God in a position of trust with no evidence of remorse or a repentant heart?
I'm all for mercy. I've received my share of it. My life is blessed and after all that happened in my past, things are great on the home front. Paul said in 1 Cor 8:13:
"Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend."
Ashmore has offended many. Paul took great care not to offend his brother even in those things that were not sinful. Paul said in 1 Cor: 13
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal."
God doesn't care about how great an orator that Ashmore may be. He might have the gift of prophesy, he can understand mysteries and have all the knowledge in the world, he can have faith to move mountains, but if he doesn't have love, he has nothing.
Ashmore has greatly offended the least in God's kingdom and this is what Jesus says in Mat 18:6:
"But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea."
Do we have a right to see repentance before we trust someone? Should we not warn people if we see a trap sprung? I understand that people hate the ntcc, and Ashmore leaving is a great way to get others to leave. But what if they all leave and the ntcc closes it's doors, but they all go to Ashmore? What has really been accomplished? Same circus, same monkeys, just a different ring leader.
Mark Breaux said:
ReplyDelete"God still honors his preaching. You can't argue with that.....2004 Graham, WA confirms that!"
I'm assuming that you are referring to the Denis split? I'm not sure what your point is or how 2004 confirms that God honors Ashmore's preaching.
Mark, I'm not trying to tear you down here. I feel very strongly about the things that I believe in. I genuinely worry about the impact Ashmore will have on the souls of men, women and children if they choose to follow him. I know Ashmore can preach and he sounds like the real deal, but it's hard for me to ignore his past and not stand for the victims of his malicious actions. We do what we do out of passion, not because we get get pleasure or some kind of reward out of it.
A lot of folks hated us for what we said about the ntcc. Ashmore comes out and says almost verbatim the exact same things we said, and he is looked to as the next Messiah. People are coming out of the woodwork and hating on us because we won't let this go. We are not making money like Ashmore is. We are not accumulating wealth and real estate by blogging against the ntcc and Ashmore.
We feel that the voices of abuse victims have been smothered with a circus atmosphere of snake oil salesmen and revival healing ministries to draw attention away from the ones that need attention. For every victim of abuse that has come forward statistics say there are dozens who haven't. We know of many such cases, but we can not share without permission. We have chosen not to betray the confidence of many that have come forward. There are many people out there who are suffering in silence, but they can read this blog and the others and find out that they are not alone. That might be the only consolation they ever have.
ANON MIKE
ReplyDeleteD/A,
There seems to be a theme that runs deep in every argument against bloggers and people that have left. "MOVE ON".
I'm not sure where this comes from since you're trying to do more than just move on. You're informing people who might go to the church of it's checkered history (and founder). Not only that but for me it's been like a support group.
Just wondering your thoughts about this because I for one will never move on until I see justice.
Mark, you signed your name, bravo. Doesn't change the fact if you're involved with any one of these NTCC outfits you're being screwed out of your life.
Mike A. Johnson Sr, Elk River MN
Anonymous said...
ReplyDeleteANON MIKE
D/A,
There seems to be a theme that runs deep in every argument against bloggers and people that have left. "MOVE ON".
DNA said:
We appreciate your support and agree that the "Move on" term is used quite frequently against the bloggers. It usually means, they don't want to hear what we have to say. However, in this case, I don't necessarily believe that is the correct conclusion. I know that Mark is not a current member of the ntcc and He's probably aligned with us on at least some of our beliefs.
I think the whole Ashmore thing has provoked quite a few people to anger and I understand why. Some look at Ashmore as just another minister that left the organization and should be afforded all the courtesies given to any other minister that leaves and speaks out against the ntcc. I completely understand that. I can relate to where Mark is coming from and I'm not trying to be condescending towards him in anyway. I have freinds who are leaning in the same direction that he is and I get it.
I just feel extremely cautious and alarmed that people seem to be jumping right in with two feet into the Ashmorite camp. To me it's almost like Hitler saying, I repent, can I still be a leader of a different country? Hitler was an extremely persuasive speaker and was historically one of the most efficient mind controlling brain washers of all time. If he were captured and all of the sudden repented, would people be all right with him continuing to commit Genocide? Maybe the comparison might seem a little extreme but to me it seems like Ashmore has hurt a lot of people spiritually and emotionally during the span of the majority of his life. Many of those people can never get those years back. Some are too far gone to find their way back to normalcy.
That's why I don't like the term move on, because it implies that what you are doing is worthless and nobody is being helped. We have both given and been receivers of help on the blogs. If we become silent than everything goes on and nobody takes notice of anything.
People need to warn others of cults. If children are being molested in a cult and the cult leaders have slipped through the cracks while the victims have been ignored, someone needs to stand for them. We want people to know that the ntcc is not just a cult because of the doctrine, but the leaders of the ntcc have been involved in various types of abuse and as much as it might hurt some peoples delicate sensibility, we are not going to ignore it.
Unfortunately when we share the testimonies of people like Ken, Julie, Lisa, Pam, Lori, Fontenot's exwife and others, people on both sides get furious at us. We have been accused of making stuff up and we have been made out by some to be worse than the ones who commit the abuse. Why would such things make people so mad at us? They are channeling there energy in the wrong direction.
1) 2 Samuel 12:11-14
ReplyDelete2) Hebrews 12:11-13
3) Job 42:7
1. Seems to me that NTCC is being chastened for some reason. God is merciful though.
2. If so, I hope that this chastening yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness. (Makes them better)
3. I believe that if there are any false witnesses, God will address them once He's done with NTCC.
Anonymous quoted the following scriptures:
ReplyDelete1) 2 Sam 12:11-14
2) Heb 12:11-13
3) Job 42:7
DNA said:
1) This passage is dealing with David, a man after God's own heart who sinned and later repented. The NTCC doesn't acknowledge any wrong doing. Every member of their General Board seems to be corrupt. None of them has stood for what is right. They can repent but that would involve quite a few confessions. I'm not sure if anyone in the organization can change the culture in the ntcc without a huge miracle from heaven. Most people go through a process that imitates repentance when they get caught and face jail sentences, but I'm not sure I've ever seen an entire group of people admit that they have been wrong and show a willingness to make things right with those they have abused. That would be true revival.
2) Heb 12 I assume that you are assuming that what the ntcc is going through is God's Chastening and that after He is through with the ntcc that he's going to Chasten the rest of us. God does Chasten his children but it's a stretch to consider the organization's leadership as actual children of God. Maybe if you believe that everyone is God's child. We have to turn our lives back over to God, to repent. That goes for all of us. If we live in outright rebellion and don't feel the need to change anything, we are lost. The recipe for eternal life is not that difficult. All the ingredients have all ready been properly mixed, all we have to do is follow the instructions and be willing to love God and love the brethren and everything else will fall into place.
3) Job 42 covers the aftermath of a man who really endured a great deal of punishment without committing crimes that deserved such judgment. All I can say about Job is that he is the ultimate example of love, patience and endurance. I doubt if there were some if any that could go through what Job did and not hate God, besides Jesus of course. It's hard to make the stretch in this comparison with the ntcc. The ntcc leadership is living in wealth and luxury and perhaps would deserve the treatment that Job endured, but I'm not sure they share the same qualities as Job. Job endured and was blessed in the end.
Don,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the understanding. I was not going against you in any wise because I have learned a lot from your blog.
I appreciate your efforts as things need to be exposed and it frees many from the guilt trip of leaving.
Mark Breaux said:
ReplyDelete"I appreciate your efforts as things need to be exposed and it frees many from the guilt trip of leaving."
DNA said:
I get pretty passionate about this stuff, and you are so right about the guilt trip that many experience when they leave the ntcc. I think a lot of the focus in the ntcc is to create an environment of fear. That environment holds people there longer than they want to stay. The love wears off after a while because it isn't real. It feels nice to be loved by others but after a while in the ntcc everyone is weighed down with their own struggles and problems and the love becomes more of a symbolic gesture like the military courtesy of saluting an officer.
I can't say how many times I heard the words, "I love and appreciate you, brother". It's nice to hear that when everything is new and it seemingly comes from the heart. After a while it becomes more of a routine and people say it because they are expected to say it. There are so many stresses placed on a church member and probably even more on a minister in the ntcc. For me it was the schedule and the desire to be a good soldier in the military, the financial stress piled on top of that and than the expectations even as a church member to produce numbers. Bringing people out to church and keeping them involved so they too could become tithe payers.
Too much control zaps the joy right out of your heart. Pretty soon the only thing keeping you there is fear. By the time you finally get out, you are used up and doubting your own mind and heart. You've been taught over and over that leaving the ntcc is like leaving God. It takes a lot of unlearning false doctrine to get back to normalcy and even then you regret the years that you have wasted.
Thanks Mark for your understanding also. Very good point about the guilt trip that is placed on so many who leave. That guilt trip keeps people from leaving and in many cases it keeps people from discussing their experiences after they left.