eX-members' of ntcc Blogspot

A safe place for Xers to share their stories and heal.

A place to learn what it's really like in the ntcc founded by Rodger Wilson Davis;
and run by his son-in-law, Michael Craig Kekel,
the father of the one vasectomy-rule-exception kid in ntcc, Grant Davison Kekel.

He Loves A House More Than God: Bonco Mansions of kekel (l) and davis (r)

He Loves A House More Than God:  Bonco Mansions of kekel (l) and davis (r)
"He loves a house more than God:" *Bonco* Mansions of kekel (l) and davis (r). Meanwhile, on the mission field: ntcc Missionaries to the Philippines "Rev. and Sis. Mackert ... found a place, 9 feet by 14 feet [9'x14'] and one bathroom. It is on the 6th floor and there is no elevator. The last place they had stayed, they had to share a common bathroom with the other tenants! Yikes! This place has their very own private bathroom, although the Rev. shared there is no seat on the throne, and no way to attach one…." from The Devonshire Files Sunday, May 28, 2006 Visit from the Mackerts (5/06). ** Should you know where the money ($$$$$) goes? **

Jesus In The Temple

Matt 21:12 And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, Matt 21:13 And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Gal. 4:16 Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth? John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. 1 John 4:6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Skip To Blue Letter Bible Search Tool

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Thursday, August 4, 2016

NoT Qualified to be an Overseer's Wife: Nichelle Tieman Abuses her 2nd Daughter-in-law

The following story was sent to us by an ntcc Board Member's X - daughter in law.  We have published it in its entirety.  The author gives a first hand account of what it was like to be a mother of three children, a wife of an ntcc minister and to be married to the son of an ntcc board member.  We recommend that you take the time to read this in full.  If you are short on time and you wish to read the main points, we have highlighted  some of the more outrageous abuses and egregious behavior that indicts these ntcc cult leaders as a disgrace to Christianity and unfit to hold any leadership position in any church.  The author refers to the Board member's wife as "mother in law" or "his mother" several times throughout this post.  She refers to the Board member's son as "my ex".

Nichelle Tieman, as she appeared in one of many ntcc Pasadena, TX photos. Don't believe the smile.  This blog post shares exactly what kind of a person she really is, and it isn't funny or even Christian.
 Nichelle Tieman, as she appeared in
 one of many ntcc Pasadena, TX, photos.
 Don't believe the smile.  This blog post
 shares exactly what kind of a person she
 really is; and it isn't funny or even Christian.
Nichelle is the "mother-in-law", "Overseer's
 wife" and "his mother" mentioned throughout
 this blog post detailing years of horrific abuse.
 The following post was written by Nichelle
Tieman's Daughter-in-law, Davy-O's 2nd borg wife.
 He has divorced her and re-married Amy,
 his first ntcc match-made bride. Ugh.
 As you read this post, understand that it is
 the entire ntcc system at fault for breeding
 an environment where such abuse flourishes! 


My Story
  1. Beginning
I was invited when I was 18 at the commissary, the lady who invited me has not been in the church for about 10 years now. I started going in 2001.
My first pastor, had us “soul win” on post, I was once arrested with another “sister” for going door to door on post, this is an illegal action and he knew it, after speaking with the MP’s that day I realized that there were proper channels that could be taken if you wished to go door to door on post. My pastor at the time did not want to go through the proper channels. My baby was 8 months old at the time, I spent a few hours on the base waiting for them to hopefully release us. The outcome of this could have been worse, he knowingly put us in harm’s way.
  1. Meeting the In-Laws
I met my in-laws a year prior to getting married to their son. I knew they were over seers and did not give them much thought. She was kind of nosy and asked a lot of questions. I thought you were just supposed to answer, because they are over seers and that is what you do. Being just a church member no one bothered me too much, I was insignificant to the big wigs. I do remember working 3 days a week in the children’s church, cleaning the church, always donating time or some financial thing to the church, it was expected. I did all the things that made me a good girl in their church, and when I had recently divorced, the big wigs took notice, their goal was to marry me off to some brother.
  1. Marriage
He came to church with his mom and dad on a Sunday in 2006, I had several of my friends from work, and even a family member in service that day, I brought people to church. I believed I was helping them get out of the life of sin. He came in one Sunday morning with his mom and dad, he will claim I stared at him, or noticed him, he was a new person I had never seen before, I wasn’t checking him out as he may claim. I just wondered who this large guy was that just busted the tambourine during a song service, it was quite noticeable because the pieces flew all over the floor.
That afternoon his mother asked him, did you see anyone you were interested in, she was referring to me. My ex said there was one girl, but she had to be young, and he didn’t want another young person. That night his mother approached me and convinced me to stay for fellowship, at the fellowship, she started in with questions, how old was I, what happened in my former marriage, how old were my kids, and the list goes on. I answered, I thought it was wrong not to, the overseers were high up, and you knew it. That night during the fellowship he kept glancing at me, I left early and thought nothing of it.
Wednesday Ladies Bible Study rolled around and I went, my pastor at the time asked if my ex could have my phone number, I thought sure why not, maybe he will be a good brother. He called me within 5 minutes of getting my number. His mother gave me a huge gift basket 2 days later, and then came over with $100 the day after that saying these were gifts from her son. I have since realized if a man does this, run away. It’s a precursor to bad things to come. We communicated for 2 weeks when he asked me to marry him. I asked my pastor, he said this is so and so’s son, he will be great, everyone seemed so happy, I thought I trust these people, they want what is good for me, if they are happy it must be a good thing. I was 23 at the time, as single mom of 2 young children, staying home seemed like a better option than working a lot, so after 3 weeks of talking to him on the phone, I flew across the country to marry this man. Looking back on it now, I realize it was crazy, stupid, and foolish, but when you are controlled by a place like this, then you don’t think rationally or logically. I put my trust in people, and what they thought, I should have followed those strong gut feelings I got about the situation.
  1. The Honeymoon Ended Quickly
We were married in 2006 and he flew off to war within a couple of weeks after that, within a month of being married, his mother made a phone call to me warning me about talking to certain just ordinary members about certain things. There even seemed to be a rift between my pastors wife and I that there had never been before. I cried after the phone call, I was part of this upper group now, and things were going to be a lot different. She held me to an unattainable standard, and it started with small things, your children’s hair is messy, why do you dress them like this or that, they look sloppy, and it just started as a small gradual drip, a drip of nit picking, fault finding, until one day it turned into a flood of unleashed emotion.
Later on, I realized my ex had been talking to a girl in another church, and one at a Pentecostal church, and his first wife was trying to make plans to get back with him right before we were married, I saw letters, overheard things from the church gossips, and realized I may have not been the one he really wanted.
  1. Leaving My Home
I had lived all my life in one place, its where my friends and family all were, after he came home, within a couple months we were moving to 1900 miles away. The first night we stayed with the in-laws house, my ex was yelling at my daughter for something, she was only 2 at the time, and said she had to go potty, I asked him to let me take her potty. His mother jumped in and said don’t you ever interfere when someone is correcting your child, and proceeded to tell me why. I stopped her and said, excuse me, it’s my daughter, it’s my place to look out for her, and step in when I feel someone is wrong, because I am her mother. It blew up from there, I went to bed without even saying a word to her, I was already pregnant with my youngest daughter at the time, and I didn’t feel good, nor did I want to deal with his mom. I was shocked, because I had never experienced someone lash out at me so harshly, jump down my throat and order me to do something, I reacted and stood my ground, and she did not like that one bit. The next morning, with tension still heavy in the air, another argument ensued, her final words were do you want me to call the bigwig, to which I said, go ahead I don’t care. I had a letter of acceptance into seminary, I had been a good girl for 5 years, and in one morning, one argument, they decided I was not good for seminary. My ex hid the referral letter from my pastor back home, saying he had never gotten it, he also hid the acceptance letter to seminary from me, I discovered it a year later.
  1. Pregnant and Stuck
I got pregnant after being married a few short months, I was in 1900 miles from home, and realized this situation was horrible, I cried every day, I felt like a failure. I wanted to go home, but at the time I cared more about what the church people would think of me, than my gut instincts. I wished I had never married him, I regretted it. It wasn’t just the finances, it was the constant phone calls from the mother in law, trying to tear at me. For a while my ex and I had started going to another church and our marriage improved, but then his mother called, and started being nice to me, started being sweet to me, Jr at one point was fed up and done with the church, I realize now, his mother used me to draw him back. I felt like I was betraying my pastor from back home and all the people who had loved me, so I stayed and went back.
The day I gave birth to my child should have been happy, I was talking to my step dad, and they accused me of talking to one of my former coworkers, and said I was going to try to cheat on my ex. After giving birth, I can guarantee no woman is thinking of wanting any man to touch her, or look at her. After my youngest daughters I requested visitors not come to the hospital, it was a difficult birth, her umbilical cord was wrapped around her neck, and I had hemorrhaged bad enough during the delivery they had to force drugs through my IV line to keep me from bleeding more. The room was tiny and crowded and hot, the only ones I allowed in were my daughters and the sister who had kept them for me. The mother in-law was mad at me for me refusing visitors, she said had people not been at conference, they would have all came to the hospital to see the baby whether I like it or not. It was my daughter, it was my hospital room, I should have been in charge of who could come there or not, this was June of 2007.
  1. Difficult Times
We hardly had any money, I couldn’t work, and my ex had gotten laid up. My mother and family sent us some money to help us out. My ex eventually took a part time job at a video store, for a couple months, he delivered pizzas or newspapers, but not a good job, he worked at a coffee shop as well, but we were sinking fast. At this time I maxed out credit cards in my name to help the family stay afloat, even took a personal loan in my name, it was never paid back, he ran through that money like water and we were broke again. It was a constant struggle, We moved half way across the country in 2008 I was constantly being bombarded by debt collectors.
  1. Accusations and Isolations
In 2007, my grandmother, who was dying of cancer at the time wanted me to come home to visit her with the kids. She paid for the plane tickets for the girls and I to come out there, my ex and his family refused to let me take my youngest baby who was 3 months old at the time, because they were afraid that I would leave and not come back. I was breast feeding her at the time, so I knew this would be very hard to leave her for a week. I visited my grandmother, my grandfather had given me a van so the girls and I would have a vehicle to get around in, we agreed to pay for the van as well, it never came to pass, and my ex sold it 2 days after my grandmother died, and pocketed the cash. I should add in as a side note, that my family never cared for my ex because of the way he treated me. I drove back, and got in on a Friday evening, I had just walked in the door, and all I wanted to do was hold my baby, I had missed her a great deal, I had been gone a week. My mother in-law informed me the baby was asleep, I said that’s ok, I will deal with her, I just really wanted to hold her, I wanted to feed her, I ached because of my milk. I went to pick her up, and his mother stated, my son and I discussed it and we decided you cannot breast feed your daughter anymore, she gets gassy, your milk is bad. I was tired and exhausted I had driven 1900 miles with a 3 year old and 5 year old by myself in less than 48 hours. I said I will feed my baby if I want, I went to pick up the car seat where my youngest daughter was and she grabbed it and started jerking on it, she would not let me have my baby. I let go and started screaming and crying, going I want my baby, I want to hold her, let me have my baby. My ex and his Dad left where ever they were and came rushing home, the mother in law played it off as an misunderstanding. I never forgot that day, it was sealed in my mind. What right did this woman have to tell me if I could breast feed my daughter or not, I knew it would not be good with her and I from then on out.
In 2008 my grandparents passed away in, they had raised me and were very much my parents in every way. I dealt with a difficult time, they passed within 3 months of each other, but that did not stop the things that were said about me, a constant belittling, you’re not good enough the way you are, even at one point being called fake. I had lost myself to this group of people, I didn’t think I was good enough just being myself, so I just was floating through life like a robot, showing no real emotion, they did not realize the pain I was dealing with on the inside from my grandmother dying of cancer, I just wanted to shut the world out for a little while and not be around any one. I needed my time to grieve, but was never really given that, life was to continue on like nothing happened. The day grandpa passed, I went soul winning, because well that’s what we do, what is more important than that?
  1. Little Eye Openings
One day I was sitting in a bible study, and it came to me that I was not living my life, I was on the outside looking in, it was the oddest picture in my head, of me unfolding a box and looking down into my life, I decided then and there it was time to start being happy, doing things I wanted to do, laughing, smiling, enjoying life, to stop being so sad. It had been almost 2 years since I had truly had joy, or went somewhere just because I could. I volunteered, at my daughters school, I started setting little goals for myself, I went places around the city, I ventured out to do and see things outside of that church. This did not set well, so once again the accusations started. On one such occasion in spring of 2009 I was called into the Pastors office, and there in that office was my ex and in-laws, my kids were shuttled off to the nursery, and the door closed. We sat there for 2 or 3 hours, the accusation this time, was you wear mascara, there are no way your eye lashes are that dark, or that thick, you know you’re lying, just admit you are lying and you can go. I said no I’m not, I said if I were going to wear makeup I would dye my hair, and wear something to get rid of the bags under my eyes. Nothing I said mattered, there was a constant accusation, and it would not stop, they said we were just having a discussion, but when yelling is involved that is not a discussion. When someone is saying you’re a liar and you aren’t what are you supposed to do. This thing about mascara went on for a few months.
I almost left the church then because of it, I went to visit, my ex had said, well if we want to get to seminary, maybe we will have to go somewhere else, look for a place in there to rent. So I did when I came here, this time I told my family what had happened, and they said it’s a cult, you know it, you need to leave. They still had a strong hold on me, I didn’t leave just yet, I went back. My ex through me under the bus then, he said I can go to seminary, you’re the with the problem you know you lie, and you wear mascara, I’m good, you’re not, you need to figure out what you’re doing. I knew if I every left him, he would take my youngest daughter, he said that from the day she was born, I was afraid of many things. These people dig in, and put a strong hold on your life, it’s a cult, read anything online about the signs of a cult and this church fits it. It’s very hard for the member who is in to leave, and to break the cycle.
  1. Seminary and more Indoctrination
I started Seminary of 2010 and finished in 2013, it was busy, there I heard the leadership get up and tell us what we could and couldn’t do, if we went camping on the weekend, we weren’t giving ourselves to God enough, but never mind the trips they took to with their families. The bigwig once said a woman that couldn’t play the piano was a hindrance to her husband and his ministry. When my ex and I first arrived there, we were confronted by the top dogs one night after service, and asked if we planned on leaving the church, I didn’t have a clue what was going on, my ex had been talking to a girl he was once engaged to about meeting up and leaving. She used to run up and jump in his arms and he’d pick her up and hug her, I wasn’t allowed to contact any former friends or coworkers, not even my oldest daughters dad, because well I may cheat on him, but he was allowed to do what he pleased. He had the passwords to all my accounts, my email, Facebook, etc. I didn’t have his, and if he gave them to me he constantly changed them. I was not allowed to know what was going on with the finances, or check bank statements. I had to get permission to spend more than $10, most of our marriage all but 2 years we were on food stamps, and state assistance, because he would get a job for a few months and then stop working it, it was said this happened because he was disable, they didn’t let me work because I’m a woman, it made no sense to me, why I couldn’t I am an able bodied individual, the mother in law really pushed government programs for us, like VA disability, and food stamps, but we were never to tell anyone we were on government assistance, we paid tithe on the food stamps as well by taking her shopping and buying her groceries.
There was a coworker of my ex when he had an office job, the ladies husband, and several of the people at the office said they were having an affair with this woman, they would go to lunch together, with no chaperone, he rode in her vehicle, and said they were just friends, anyone who knew this church knew this was unacceptable. I couldn’t even talk to a man without getting accused of doing something, and here he was riding in a car, going to lunch and other places with his friend, and many people, including her husband thought they were having an affair, these were people not connected to the church, people don’t generally think things like that unless you give them a reason to.
  1. Horrible Holidays
Every year the in-laws would come home for the holidays, what was supposed to be a happy, family togetherness time generally turned into a fight between the mother in law and I, every year this would happen, the exception being 2011, there was a grim prognosis about my ex, his mother knew I’d return home and not have much to do with her. The last Christmas in Graham was 2012, we went on some trip out to the coast, to West Port, we were very tight on money. In seminary, you pay your tithe, you pay for classes, they may throw an additional class in there, so you will have to come up with the money on the spot to pay for that one too, and you pay a babysitter to watch your children at night time if they are young, you’re broke most of the time, unless you have a really good job, which was never the case with our family, we just didn’t have money. I volunteered at a clothing bank, and I got cloths for the girls and I there, I also volunteered at their school, I had never stopped getting out and giving of myself, I like helping people, I enjoyed being around kids, and spending time with my daughters at their school.
We went on a trip we couldn’t afford to spend it with the in-laws, I budget the money that was on the food stamps very wisely. I raised chickens, and grew a garden, and made everything from scratch just to make ends meet, she wanted us to spend $100 for a 2 or 3 day trip for groceries, I said that takes most of our budget, we don’t have that money, so a fight started on that end. We drove there on a tire that was bad, my ex said the struts went out, no the tread was bald on the tire and it shook the whole way, I was so scared to drive that car, but away we went. While there, we did not get along any better, by this time my oldest daughter was 11, the mother in-law accused her of breaking something, which she didn’t and she yelled at my daughter and she went on and on about it. She said I didn’t pay enough attention to my children, how could I let this happen, I woke up early one of mornings and went walking, I just couldn’t take it, I needed to breathe for a minute. She found fault with me for that, saying she was stuck taking care of my kids, I was gone half an hour. I was made to clean the entire place we were staying in, I had to do dishes, vacuum, and clean up after they all ate. I was told I was lazy, and that I did not help clean or pull my weight there, they all went to the beach, while I was miserable the whole trip. One thing after another, we got home, and I told my ex I would never go on a “family” trip with him again.
New Year’s rolled around, and I knew something was wrong, one night after a church service, we were called to his parents’ house, my kids were sent in the other room to watch a movie, and there I was on a couch by myself, with all of them looking at me, something I was all too familiar with, the mother in-law started in, why do you volunteer so much, why do you help at your daughter’s school? I said because I enjoy doing that, she said, you should help me clean my house, I helped my mother in law, you should help me clean, you spend all your time volunteering and not helping me. I said, I did help you clean your house, I still do I just don’t want to be over here all the time, I have my own family, plus I’m still in seminary. It blew up from there, all I could think as words rolled out of her mouth was Jesus sat there quite before them as they were putting him on trial, I just held my tongue, I said nothing else, I blink away the tears, this went on for a couple of hours. They said say something, now is your time to talk, I said no I have nothing to say, the mother in-law was so red in the face, and upset, she could not get a reaction out of me. We left, I made up in my mind I would never ever treat any member of my congregation that way, I really had a desire to help people, and I never wanted to make anyone feel that way. To me getting out in the ministry was more important than her, or what she said or the accusations. I graduated seminary, and we left to the ministry shortly after.

  1. Their Greatest Calling
We went out into the “harvest” in 2013, having sold all of our furniture, and just about everything we owned, we got a church, a place and started, it was a lot of work, but I was in some ways glad to be there, because this was what I thought was the greatest calling, it was the height of that church, one preachers wife said it was a higher calling than being the president’s wife. That year for the holidays, the in-laws came to visit us, we had everyone over to our apartment, she spilled stuff all over the oven, burned it in and made a mess, I wanted to clean it up, she said no, go to the church and clean, you put that above everything else, and like every other holiday it went downhill from there. We fought like children over dumb stuff, she accused me of not learning to play piano correctly, she got so mad when I tried to tell her what I was learning, she thought I was arguing with her, while we were at dinner, she refused to talk to me, she intentionally ignored me. Her husband even told her she misunderstood me, the dad was always so quite, and never said much, most of the accusations came from the mother in law, so I knew it was bad if he stood up for me. I told my ex about it, he said, she is an overseers wife, she would never act like that, you’re mistaken, he later asked his mom about it, and she admitted to ignoring me, and what I was saying on purpose that evening during our Christmas dinner. I was so tired of it, never feeling good enough, I was the country bumpkin who’d married her baby boy, and I just couldn’t do anything right no matter what, eventually her tactics no longer worked on me, I’d grown numb to them, I stopped caring.
  1. The Wake Up Call
I had decided to make some smoothies and salsa, not knowing I was deathly allergic to a tropical fruit. The next day I woke up with hives all over my body, you could not see my skin, it was red everywhere, that was a Thursday morning, by Friday morning my throat was beginning to swell, I told my ex I needed to go to the hospital, he said it cost too much, take Benadryl, I said I’ve already maxed it out, I can’t take any more and its doing nothing. Saturday morning I woke up, I stepped out of bed, and felt sharp, knife stabbing pains on my feet, I had welds an inch thick on the soles of my feet. I got sick to my stomach then fell on the floor and went into convulsions, the pain in my stomach felt like giving birth. I managed to make it back to our room, where I got sick again and fell on the floor in convulsion, tried to wake my ex up, I need to go to the ER, this is bad. He laid in bed I fell, it took all the strength I had to pull myself up on the side of the bed, I was bent over in pain, I hit him with a pillow he finally got up. It took him another 40 minutes to an hour to realize something was wrong, by this time I was calling a church member to get me to the hospital. He came over and said, oh you poor thing you are shaking, I was in the midst of a serious of convulsions, my kids woke up, my middle daughter was so frightened by my appearance the first words out of her mouth were mommy are you going to die? He dropped me off at the ER, I walked in side doubled over by the amount of pain I was in, I went in, they immediately pumped me full of meds, steroids, and H1 and H2 inhibitors, on the way out my ex went to get the car, they stopped me and said ma’am you need to pay, I said I don’t know how to pay, I don’t know which account has money, I was still in pain, my stomach still having mini piercing aches, he came in and paid, and I walked to the car, without his help. That night he kept waking me up to take Benadryl, the most you can take is 8 in a day, when he came around the third time, it would have been 6 pills, I slapped his hand away with the pills in it, saying leave me alone, that’s too much. I’m tiny my body doesn’t take that many meds at once. Two days later he had me out in southern heat in the summer at a church bbq, where I had prepared a bunch of food, I was so weak and so tired I left early. For 6 weeks, if you touched my skin it would bubble up and turn red from the inside out. I dropped a ton of weight, I couldn’t eat any greasy food, mostly only fruit and veggies or my stomach would start aching again. The mother in-law said that was normal for my skin to do that because I was so fair skinned, I think she missed a lot there, I’m very olive, and always have been because of my ancestry.
  1. From Bad to Really Bad
My ex refused to work a job, our vehicle broke down, I had been sick, things were falling to pieces, it led to him and I donating blood plasma to make ends meet, to get to conference even. He sat there in the chair next to me one of the times and the nurse told him, I’m worried about your wife sir, her veins are so tiny, we are worried about blowing them. He said well thank God we can use it now. His mother said I was healthier than her son, so I should donate plasma, she told me of other preachers wives who had done it and wore the scares from it to sacrifice for God. It could have caused massive damage to my body for a mere $50. The last time I donated plasma, I felt so ashamed, I wasn’t doing it for a good cause, I heard my grandfather’s voice speak to me in my mind, “you were raised better than this, get up, work hard, and do what you have to do to take care of your family, no one else is going to do it for you.” I went to conference September 2014, just to listen to the new head pastor bash some guy for wearing shorts. My thought wasn’t bash the husband, but what does the wife have in her heart, why would she want her husband blasted from the pulpit like that. I saw my friends, they had been so energetic and hopeful, they looked worn and burnt out, I felt that way too. This place and all it held no longer meant anything to me.
I looked at my ex and said what if we would have done what God wanted us to do instead of following a man? Where would we have been, we were so broke going $900 a month in the whole, his mommy and daddy were floating us by. I just couldn’t live like that anymore, I told him I know longer wanted to go to that church. I was told if you live here, you will go to church with me, anyone wife under my roof will go to church, so you either stay here and go to church or you go to your sisters. I said I will go and visit my sister, for a few weeks and come back before Christmas with money from the job I get so we have a nice Christmas for the girls.
  1. Set Up
Looking back on it I should have seen it coming, but you never want to believe your spouse of almost 9 years would do something like that to you. He said I love you baby, I support you, I understand you are doing this to help the family, I have all the text messages, he lied. Within 6 days of me leaving he moved my family out of the state we lived in, his parents helped him. While I was away his parents treated my oldest two children like garbage. She had my oldest scrub the inside of the toilet with a paper towel and her bare hands, my ex had been ill and it was nasty, she was so sickened by this. He called the new bigwig within a few hours and said I left him and the church, I was blacklisted within 5 hours of being on the bus. I had not left him, I was desperate to help my family. The story goes I cheated on him with some guy at our church, left him and left the church. He said the same thing of his first wife as well, it worked one time why not use it again.
He called and texted me at all times of the day, I knew my marriage was over because I finally put my foot down and said I’m no longer doing it your way. I ended up working overtime and he would text me or blow my phone up until 1 or 2 in the morning. I went 2 weeks without my kids, he said he would fly the oldest 2 girls to me, since they are not his, and he kept the youngest. He said he left $200 in our joint checking account and I could use that, he also wanted me to deposit my pay checks into it. I told him I was not going to do that, I realized something was really wrong. When I called the bank there was $37 in our joint account. I had not worked a job in 8 ½ years, I had a couple hundred dollars I could use on a credit card and that was it. I had not even gotten a pay check yet. He ended up flying my kids to an airport 5 hours away and gave me a 2 day notice to pick them up. I hit my knees and just cried for several hours that night, I didn’t know how I would get my babies. An agency ended up giving me the money to get the girls and paying for my rental vehicle, they offered compassion and mercy, my step dad picked them up from the airport, and I drove home, a 7 hour drive in December after working a 9 hour day.
I ended up working 3 jobs, I did not have a car, I relied on my sister to give me a ride, sometimes she would drop me off at a coffee shop, so I could use the wifi, or talk to a Domestic Violence Agency or take care of appointments. I walked in 10 degree weather in December, I was up by the Minnesota, South Dakota border. He would call me at work and harass me. He had called my oldest daughters dad and said he wanted to prove me an unfit mother, and get me to lose all the girls. He called CPS in 3 states on me, every case was thrown out. I asked him how was I good enough to work in your children’s church for 12 years, I volunteered in a clothing bank, at their schools, at a Crisis Pregnancy Center, and started a girl scout troop, if I was so bad with children why would I have ever been allowed in a children’s church. He told me if I really loved God I would drive to our church in South Dakota, it was 2 ½ hours away, this was the dead of winter, the roads continually get shut down because they have so much snow, and blowing snow, the day he told me if I really loved God I would make the drive, it was -30, with a howling wind and a foot of snow. If I really loved God, I’d risk dying or breaking down, and being stranded with my kids on some highway, how absurd.
He continually called my work, he canceled my car insurance one day when I was at work, he constantly did things behind my back, he called one day and said you have a month to come here and get your things or I will throw them away and give them to goodwill. He told me my 3 jobs were not that hard, one really wasn’t a job, it was more of a gig. I went to court in the summer of 2015 to get a divorce, we agreed and settled, his original lawyer ended up going to a mental hospital, so he got a new lawyer just a few days before it was set to be finale, this drug the case out longer. He switched therapist, and drug it out more, finally in April 2016 we were done, 10 days after the judge signed off on our divorce paper he was already remarried to his first wife. I cried at this point, not because I wanted him back, but I wondered why did you drag this horrible experience out, why did you put me through this. I was hindered from doing a lot of things, in my personal life, or advancing I was stuck in a holding pattern because I was still married. Some people do not understand the decisions I was forced to make, I really wanted my youngest daughter, but I went up against people who had money, I couldn’t afford it, I sat down many days, many nights, I prayed for months. I weighed the options, I had to make a decision to do what was best for all my girls, so I do not have my youngest daughter. He told me in the beginning if I ever left him he would make sure I never got her, that he would bury me in the process, I’m still standing, but he tried his hardest to paint me as a bad person.
  1. Hindsight
This experience has not been easy, it’s been a painful one, words cannot even describe the things I felt or went through. I went to therapy for almost a year. I search out answers, I reflect, and just try to take one day at a time, and to make the best out of every day. Things that seem normal to a lot of people, were no longer normal for me, like wearing pants, or jewelry, make up, or even cutting my hair. It’s hard for someone to understand unless they have been through an experience like it. I wanted to share my story, I’m no longer scared to. I really don’t want to see anyone else go through what I’ve been through. I’m one of many people who has been done wrong by the group I was in. You lose your self-identity, I couldn’t even recognize who I was anymore. If you gut feeling is telling you something isn’t right then pay attention to it. Many have been wronged, spiritually abused, mentally and some even physically abused by people in this organization. I urge you, to research it, don’t just attend and follow them blindly. They suck you in before you even know what happened. They act like they will accept you and love you so much, then they start correcting you and the way you are dressed, they will use examples if you truly loved God you would do things this way or that way. One of the first major warning signs I should have realized is within the first couple months of me going the pastor got up behind the pulpit and said if your family tells you this is a cult, it’s not, we are not a cult. They started expecting you to go to all the events, it was literally 6 or 7 days a week, and twice on Saturday and Sunday, demanding time, money, driving your vehicle to haul others around, which takes gas, and is wear and tear on your car, when the car breaks down, well, it’s just the devil messing. They expect you to go to conference twice a year, ministers are required to go to one or they will lose their license. There is not much time for any outside activities, and you spend little time with your family because you are always so busy running for a group of people. Google what a cult is, you will see the warning signs.
I was left an empty shell, my world was ripped out from under my feet, I still cry sometimes, in some ways I’m broken and I don’t know how long it will take to heal from some of the things I’ve been through. This group was 13 years of my life. If you want to leave secretly reach out to family and friends, and just go, I had to delete my old Facebook account. If you are a woman and have children, go to a domestic violence shelter, and flee, take all your children with you, get a protective order put in place so you can keep your children. Be prepared to stand strong, they will smear your name, lie about you, try to destroy you. If you leave the church it is automatic grounds for divorce. Don’t think it won’t happen to you, they arrange marriages, they have a hand in putting people together, the environment in this church is a breeding ground for abusive relationships, I’ve heard by golly I’m the man of the house, is my wife don’t like it there’s the door. Women are not treated well here, you won’t be allowed to go to college, to work a job, and you will fight if you wish to even volunteer, they want to keep you at home and isolated. Did you ever think about what it’s like for your daughter? My oldest once told me, why would I go to college, I’m just going to get married anyway, I can’t do anything with it. Is that what you really want for your daughters? I want mine to thrive, I think marriage is a good thing, but what if they do not wish to marry, what then? You have to sit down and really think about the future, they claim when you leave, you will suffer and have a horrible life, that things will fall apart, no one will love you and you won’t be blessed, and you certainly are not in the will of God. That is so far from the truth, I’ve had complete strangers show me more love and mercy than anyone in that organization ever did. The only heartache and suffering comes from my ex and what he put me through. If anyone happens to invite you to that group run away, do not go, don’t even subject yourself to it. I know there are more of us out there, many have remained silent. This is a long story, I want the information out there, I don’t want people to experience the pain I have felt, you’re not alone, sometimes the best fight we can fight back with is simply standing, and letting our voices be heard.



Reunited by Peaches and Herb on YouTube
From this story we see that before the ink dried on the divorce documents, her ex 're-married" his first wife... making her his first and third wife...  and the Big Wigs sanctioned it all, again!


(1) When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give [it] in her hand, and send her out of his house. (2) And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's [wife]. (3) And [if] the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth [it] in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her [to be] his wife; (4) Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that [is] abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance. (Deu 24:1-4 KJV)

David Jr. and His
New Wife/Old X-wife that he
Remarried after Dumping the
abused Mother of his Child.
They are Celebrating
"Western" Night, and this
New/Old couple, and
the Whole Corrupt
Tieman Family.

We want folks to see the corruption.  The above picture was posted on May 21st of this year before the ink dried on David Jr's second divorce. This is David Jr's new bride.  Actually it's his old bride, also.  This woman whose name is Amy was married to Jr. at 16 years of age and dumped about 14 or 15 years ago by David Jr. when he got sick of her. This remarriage to Davyo's X, is most likely another stop gap relationship and if you blink your eyes, you might find Davyo going through a third divorce.  Stay with us, because this gets confusing as with many other ntcc sanctioned marriages and divorces.  But there is more to this story.  


David Tieman Jr. and yet another woman. Look kind of close, don't they? Notice Jezebel Tieman in the background strapped into a roller coaster smiling her approval of this inordinate relationship while he is still married to the Lady who wrote this post. From other photos on their social media pages it appears that these Borgites were grooming this blonde woman to become the next bride in the line up. Fortunately for her, she has moved on from being manipulated by Nichelle Tieman.

Who is this girl, you might ask?  This is Julia.  She  started attending the ntcc while Davyo Tieman was going through his second divorce.  Fortunately this woman was smart enough to get out of the ntcc before getting trapped in matrimony with this wrecking ball of marriages.  David Jr. was seen on many occasions flirting with this girl while going through his second divorce.  She was the one that David was hoping replace his wife of 13 years with, but things didn't work out with this one.  She must have known that David was going through a divorce and a light came on.  DANGER! DANGER! DANGER!  Julia left the cult and dodged a serious bullet. The match making machine sputtered and gagged so David Jr. had to settle for a consolation prize.  They hooked him up with his first wife.  Poor Amy.  Raised in the ntcc.  Abused and dumped.  You know that Amy had to be talked about like a dog and treated like the scum of the earth by Nichelle.  Now Amy is trapped in this family of abusive and manipulative con artists again.  What a sick and demented carousel/roller coaster/house of horror.  Dave Sr. and Nichelle had to postpone their traveling tour in their rolling cathedral to self wealth for about a year to get Davyo hooked up again.  Soon Jr. will be given another church to lord over and will repeat the vicious ntcc cycle of chicanery.

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168 comments:

Anonymous said...

My heart is grieving for you.
I remember you and your life and all you did for people and for the church.
I remember your sweet grandma.
I'm sorry for all you went thru with that ex family in law. Many people know the kind of people your ex in laws are specially your ex mother in law. Quite pathological and I heard many people say this but they can't do anything about it because for some weird reason they have been promoted and they are untouchable.
I can't imagine the hurt you're feeling for the loss of your youngest girl.
Theres no words to describe the nightmare you just came out of.

Don and Ange said...

The Board Member is David Tieman, The X-mother in law is Nichelle Tieman and the X-husband is David Tieman Jr. First of all, it is already obvious who this board member is. There are no board members with sons that are old enough to have been married three times who are in the organization that we know of and first comment has already identified with the Author. We think that it is very important to name the Tiemans so there will be no question in anyone's mind as to who these abusers are. We are not going to use the Author's name, or her daughter's name. It's important to identify the enemy and to warn people. We have done blog posts about the Tiemans and we know what they are all about. Nichelle Tieman is very wicked and is responsible for destroying and manipulating my relationship with Ange. David Tieman Sr. sit's back and allows his wife to manipulate folks. David Tieman Sr. is an enabler just like Olson is an enabler. We knew David Tieman Jr. when he was about 4 or 5 years old. It grieves us to hear about the way Nichelle treated the the two older children. We know how spoiled and out of control David Jr. was when he was a child. He would throw temper tantrums and scream at the top of his lungs continually, on some occasions interrupting church functions and fellowship. You only need to take a look at how he turned out as an adult to know that Nichelle Tieman did a horrible job of parenting. She is such a hypocrite to tell others how to raise their children. David Tieman Jr. is lazy and doesn't want to work. He is capable of working but he just has no self esteem and as long as he can freeload he will. He definitely followed the footsteps of his evil mom. David Tieman Jr. fits into the catagory of an infidel because he did not provide for his family. His X-wife did much more to support him than he did to support her and the children. He was healthy enough to play football and jump over a wall but his family suffered because he was too lazy to find lasting employment.

Don and Ange said...

Nichelle Tieman is the last person you should take advice from when it comes to raising a family. She has a track record of neglecting her family and the ministry. While she and her husband were living large the son and daughter in law were paying tithe in foodstamps and surviving off of giving plasma. These people should not be giving others spiritual advice. They should not be in any type of leadership position. They should definitely not be overseers in the ntcc. If you are in the ntcc and you can read this blog post, you should be ashamed of your phony organization and it's cult leaders. The Tiemans are vile grifters and abusers. That's what they are and we are not going to let this go. Finally someone has come out and is brave enough to share her story about this abusive family. When we say they destroy lives, we are not exaggerating. When we say that they destroy families, we are not exaggerating. When we say that they break up marriages and manipulate relationships, we are not exaggerating.

Don and Ange said...

"The bigwig once said a woman that couldn’t play the piano was a hindrance to her husband and his ministry."

DNA said:

Nichelle Tieman couldn't play the piano. I know this because I had to play it and I sucked as a piano player. She was even worse than I was and made no attempt to get better. Another example of double standards.

Don and Ange said...

"We sat there for 2 or 3 hours, the accusation this time, was you wear mascara, there are no way your eye lashes are that dark, or that thick, you know you’re lying, just admit you are lying and you can go. I said no I’m not, I said if I were going to wear makeup I would dye my hair, and wear something to get rid of the bags under my eyes."

DNA said:

Nichelle Tieman condemned my own mother to hell for not adhering to all of the common ntcc man made doctrines. It's all about the outward appearance. Their own souls are darkened with hatred and they find fault with others to make themselves feel good. They could care less about the faithfulness or loyalty of a person. They are text book narcissists and they condescend to everyone they come in contact with. You can tell that the author of this blog post gave her all and jumped through all the hoops. She was more of a leader than any of the Tiemans will ever be. In spite of the situation she was in, she labored to make it work and in her actions she lived as an example of a believer, who they systematically broke down and tried to destroy her. As far as Nichelle was concerned, wearing mascara is a sin even when the object of her cruelty wasn't wearing mascara. Their brand is chaos and crisis. They create sin where no sin exists so that they can control people and manipulate them. It makes them feel better about their own wickedness. They care about the outside and neglect the inside. They are just like the Pharisees.

Mat. 23:25 "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess."

This describes the Tiemans perfectly. They are worried about mascara while they send the wife of their worthless son to a plasma center? People in the ntcc are as blind as a bat. Apparently this is not an isolated instance because Nichelle identified it as a practice of sacrifice that others had to make. How sick is the ntcc and how dead is God in that organization that a mother of three would have to give plasma to support her family while the Tiemans drive around in a million dollar Recreational Vehicle, extorting GI's and civilians for thousands of dollars while vacationing and shopping, and while the husband lays around the house playing Pokemon instead of getting a job and supporting his family? It might not be my place to put people in hell, but if I was a betting man, my money would be on the wife going to heaven and the inlaws splitting hell wide open. I don't care if she covered herself in mascara from head to toe, she wouldn't attain to the evil of the Tiemans.

Don and Ange said...

"If you are a woman and have children, go to a domestic violence shelter, and flee, take all your children with you, get a protective order put in place so you can keep your children."

DNA said:

If there is one thing that you can take away from this blogpost, please let this resonate in your heart. If you are a mother or father in the ntcc you need to protect your family. If you are a mother and they don't let you work, this is grounds to get a protective order. You need to get your family out of this cult. What the Tiemans did is illegal, but they had the money to win the war of attrition in the legal system against their X- daughter in law.

The ntcc is not a healthy place for families. Please take the first step and get your children out of this cult before they drive a wedge between you and your children. It's disgraceful how they treat families and children.

Anonymous said...

"My first pastor, had us “soul win” on post, I was once arrested with another “sister” for going door to door on post"
This is a true account. The sisters were also booted out of the Walmart in junction city for this same reason.
The pastors: mdr , Devonshire, Bellamy & those that came after were all about having the most people in church because that's what is instilled in every minister in the ntcc that
If you don't have people in church you are regarded as a loser that don't have God enough to bring people in.
Devonshire was relentless on keeping his quota up because he wanted a higher position and he got it.
He is currently pastoring the 2nd biggest church in the ntcc.
I remember Devonshire in junction city looking around the sanctuary looking around and then going to the back and calling people up to see why they were not in church, all this minutes away from the service starting!

Anonymous said...

I was friends with the Dobyn's brothers (great guys by the way) and they really did not like their older sister. It was pretty funny to see the look on their faces when talk would turn to them about her and Tiemen. I had that same look when people talked about a particular family member I was ashamed of or knew things about them that most didn't. I thought it odd at the moment and it stayed in my memory for a long time.

Tiemen is a complete yes man to Mike and his funky bunch.

Kekel - married the bosses daughter and never had to do anything. never had to prove his mettle. He definetly likes to rattle his sword and claim his non-existent victories though. Watch out if you question him.
Kinson - whore monger
Olson - had his nose so far up ole-Rogers backside. He had almost no personality at all. Trying to talk to him was pretty painful. Most of the time I left wondering what just happened and had anything really been said.
DiFrancesco - I fell asleep in his classes all the time. A nice man, but man was he boring. Get a personality sir.

Anonymous said...

For anyone that has a family, they need to read and re-read this post. Besides the sexual crimes of Davis, Kekel, St Clair, Fontenot and Jordan, this is one of the saddest accounts on this blog. IF THIS TESTIMONY DOESN'T MAKE YOU LEAVE NTCC YOU ARE STUPID. You have someone who was basically selected by NTCC org leadership, isolated from all family and friends, made dependent upon a bipolar disabled soldier and never allowed to work to support her family. All the while David is communicating with Amy Ruth - his first wife and keeping finances and other information secret from her. It is also sad with the children involved and I am willing to bet that David isn't sending child support and Nichelle would never acknowledge any of the children, even the one they have together.

NTCC is all about secret government benefits and there are so many that are on them that it would surprise you who are on disability, social security, welfare, WIC, and the list goes on. NTCCers also love something for nothing and would rather sit around being given money than work for it or prove they know the job. Nichelle Tieman is one of the most critical, manipulative, and sociopathic women you will ever meet. Her words are carefully measured to inflict the most pain or to extract the most information to be used against you at a later time. She will ask things at the right time in front of the right people to get the right effect to either make you look bad or herself to look good.

Unknown said...

Heart broken for this lady and her kids. The real NTCC gets revealed once you leave the local church. They are disgusting people.

Her testimony about sending the kids in the other room to watch movies at the overseers house. That floored me. If you were in NTCC prior to the Denis split and your still there, your an idiot. Why stick with a church that has no core values other than exploiting people and getting rich off of their poverty.

Eric

Anonymous said...

Someone in NTCC will read this story and discredit the whole testimony by saying, "well the overseers were always nice to me when they came through town so she's lying."

Regretfully,the verse "As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord." really means "I'm glad it's not happening in my house, so I will continue to support abusers and manipulators in ntcc."

Don and Ange said...

"My mother in-law informed me the baby was asleep, I said that’s ok, I will deal with her, I just really wanted to hold her, I wanted to feed her, I ached because of my milk. I went to pick her up, and his mother stated, my son and I discussed it and we decided you cannot breast feed your daughter anymore, she gets gassy, your milk is bad. I was tired and exhausted I had driven 1900 miles with a 3 year old and 5 year old by myself in less than 48 hours. I said I will feed my baby if I want, I went to pick up the car seat where my youngest daughter was and she grabbed it and started jerking on it, she would not let me have my baby. I let go and started screaming and crying, going I want my baby, I want to hold her, let me have my baby."

DNA said:

This is wrong on so many levels. These wicked people have to be exposed. The Tiemans are not Christians. They are God haters. If they loved God they would love their neighbor as themselves. They would treat others with love and respect. They are enemies of the cross and they falsely represent Jesus. Can anyone share a scripture anywhere in the bible where Christians ever treated human beings the way that Nichelle Tieman treated her daughter in law? This needs to be exposed and the Tiemans need to be exposed for the frauds that they are. David Tieman Sr. is just as responsible as Nichelle. He allowed Nichelle to shamefully treat and disrespect the mother of his grand daughter. David Jr. is also guilty of allowing his wife to be degraded by his mother. Nichelle runs the family while the men in the family are gutless. I don't know any men that are sinners by the ntcc's standards that would allow their wives to be treated the way that Nichelle treated this woman. This is America, not Iran. Women have rights. Christian women are also supposed to be loved and cherished according to the bible. This is not love. Nichelle Tieman loves herself. Nichelle Tieman is a modern day Jezebel.

Don and Ange said...

This story represents what the ntcc is all about. This is not an isolated incident. The entire organization needs to be called out on this. Of course they don't have the common decency to do anything about any of this. Nichelle Tieman will be highly esteemed in the ntcc for her wicked ways. All of you ntcc'rs are supporting and enabling Nichelle and many others like her when you pay your tithe and give revival offerings to David Tieman Sr. I hope you think about this the next time the Tiemans swing by for a "revival". You financed these hypocrites. Their whole life is one big all expense paid vacation, supported by the ignorance of an organization full of people who don't care how they treat others. Meanwhile they are extorting their own flesh and blood by making them pay tithe in food stamps. They need to stock their Recreational vehicle with snacks and amenities with your food stamp money so they can go on another vacation. If you run out of food stamps, you can sell your plasma to support your family. Is this what God is all about? All of you ntcc members that are reading this are responsible for enabling the Tiemans to treat people contrary to the bible.

The board members who read this blog and have already read this blog post are also guilty. They claim to be the last move of God on earth, but they live contrary to God and when they allow abusive women like Nichelle Tieman, Joan St. Clair and Barbara Norton Warwick to destroy the lives of decent people, they are just as guilty as the wicked women they enable. The ntcc is rotten to the core.

If you are in the ntcc and you are reading this you should have deep concerns about how your spiritual leaders are treating families. How can you say that you love God whom you have not seen when you don't love your brothers and sisters whom you have seen? They were made in the image of God and when you support the leadership of an organization that has abused people, destroyed marriages, broken up families and encouraged divorce and adultery, you are placing the ntcc leadership above God and becoming a willing participant in all of this evil. You will be the first to condemn outsiders for drinking, smoking and cursing while you ignore a greater evil from within your own corrupt church. How do you ignore the wickedness? We all know that the ntcc is a cult and all we can do is warn you. If you choose to stay in this cult, it's on you.

Vic Johanson said...

Well, after reading this horror story, I've concluded that one of the best things I ever experienced in NTCC was not getting to know these anal orifices (and please feel free to substitute in your minds the more common cruder and saltier synonym for that anatomical feature, because it's what I really mean) masquerading as church leaders. It's amazing how such wicked individuals can adopt the facade of godliness with such aplomb...just more evidence of their utter lack of human decency. There appears to be no end of the shocking accounts emanating from org land. Sad to think that there are others currently suffering similar treatment from these beasts. Flee!

Don and Ange said...

Our friend, John Huddle, from another cult wrote a book called "Locked In" about his experiences in the Word of Faith Fellowship or WOFF. In a lot of ways this cult was more outrageous than the NTCC, but when you look at it objectively, they accomplish the same goals. Cults are all about money, power and double standards. If you take a good look at the ntcc, woff and many other cults they all use the same tactics. The Tiemans have these tactics down to a science. First of all, you get people to believe that your church is special and that they are special as long as you find youir subservient place in their cult. Cult members believe they are worshiping God by obeying rules that control their lives. Cults have a ton of rules that change from time to time to suit the cult leaders. The reason for having so many rules is twofold.

First, the rules keep you so busy that you don't have any time to clear your mind and think about what you are actually going through. The enforcement of these rules keeps people in constant turmoil as they try to walk that perfect line. Jesus said, "My yoke is easy, and my burden is light". Mat 11:30 All of the rules in the ntcc make their style of Christianity a drudgery and serve only to weigh a person down with legalism and ritual. And so it is with other cults also. The Tiemans made up rules and enforced them to create chaos in the lives of their daughter in law and her children. They were too busy to clear their minds and figure out that the rules were not coming from God. So we blame ourselves and try harder to conform. The objective is to keep you so busy and perplexed in your spirit that you don't have time to think things through. Before you finish working your way through one crisis, another drama begins to unfold. It's a vicious cycle.

Next, the rules are in place to get your money out of your wallet and bank account into the Cult leaders wallets and bank accounts. If you notice in this blog post, Tieman Jr. and his wife never had money. David Jr. was on 100% disability and they received Government benefits which was probably not much to survive on, but whatever money was needed to provide basic needs for the children and wife was blown frivolously by David Jr, and his wife was not allowed access to the bank info that would have exposed Jr for what he was spending his money on, (probably other women). The reason they have so many rules is to free up your money so you can give it to them. Many of these rules are unwritten and they are subtle in nature but every bit as effective as if they came straight out of the bible. When Davis would say, "He loves a house more than God", very few people would buy a house. He didn't want your money tied up in house payments, home insurance, HOA's and such. When he said, "children hinder the work of the Lord, it was because he didn't want you spending your money on children when you could be giving it to him. They didn't want you buying TV's and computers or anything that would keep you informed about what is really going on in the world. If you bought a gym membership, they would preach, "Bodily exercise profitteth little". The bottom line is that if they find out you are spending your money on things other than the cult, they make rules to redirect your funds to them. If you have dreams or aspirations to do anything that doesn't benefit the cult, they would subtly lay a guilt trip on you to redirect your resources to benefit them. They didn't want you to advance your military career, or civilian career unless it was to their benefit. If you considered volunteering for an assignment or training that violated their cult schedule you would be dressed down for loving your life and career more than God. They want your time and they want your money.

Anonymous said...

Sadly, I know of ten stories similar to this one in NTCC. Including my own.

Don and Ange said...

Much of the evil in the ntcc is driven by lust and greed for money. There are so many ways in which they go after your money, but most of these ways fall under the category of unwritten rules. Davis was a grifter of the highest order. It's called brain washing for a reason. Davis would have everyone shopping at thrift stores so that they would be free to contribute more money to the "work" of God. Why is it that Davis didn't shop at Goodwill? Take a look at how Verna is adorned and compare that with how the average ntcc church schlub dresses. The bible school students live off of a meager budget and eat Ramen noodles and hot dogs or whatever delicacy they can afford, like bologna. The Kekels dip into the ntcc slush fund and eat out whenever they want and I'm sure they aren't eating two hot dogs for a dollar at the Stop and Go. The average borg member drives a junker or drives the wheels off of a low cost budget auto that they can hardly afford. Not your leaders in the ntcc. Kekel is said to have a Beamer worth 100k and a Mercedes Mclaren worth over a quarter mil. They find ways to make you live like a pauper while they use your gifts to finance their own luxury.

We were told first hand that Nichelle would brag about the mansion she lived in next to Kinson, and the Recreational Vehicle that Davis handed down to them which cost One Million Dollars. How wicked is it to have those kinds of riches and tell the wife of your own son that she needs to sacrifice and give plasma to make ends meet? How wicked is it to have those kind of riches and make your daughter in law take you shopping with her food stamps while calling it tithe? What a sick bunch of narcissists. Don't waste your money on paper towels and don't use too much toilet paper. You are wasting God's money. What a joke. We all were played for a bunch of fools. If you are in the ntcc and you are reading this, you should get together and file a class action lawsuit against these crooks and frauds. But you'll probably just sit there and continue to drink their Koolaid.

Don and Ange said...

Keep paying your tithe to them so they can take away your freedom while they do whatever they want. Don't go to college because it interferes with the church schedule. Use that money to pay more tithes and more offerings so Kekel can send his son to a private college that costs tens of thousands of dollars per year. Deprive yourself of your future so they can enrich their own future. It's the Christian thing to do, isn't it? God is blessing them, isn't He? Don't take that promotion because you'll have to work during church functions. You might be away from the cult long enough to figure out what they are really all about. Go ahead and punish yourself by staying in the rut that they want you to stay in. They want to keep you in constant financial hardship so you can worry about where the rent money is going to come from or how you are going to pay your utilities. They don't want you to have peace or to succeed in anything other than converting souls into their convoluted cult. Don't spend money on health insurance, after all we all have health ASSURANCE. Don't spend money on life insurance because we all have life ASSURANCE. They need that money to build their own nest egg and to pay for their own hospital and doctor bills and their own drug prescriptions. You need to have faith to be healed but I'm sure Davis spent some time in the hospital before he checked out. In fact it was said that he and barbaric Barb Norton were in the hospital at the same time. Don't leave your family any money to survive after you die and your non working wife and kids have no means to survive. They will be forced into another recycled marriage with some abusive jerk who will treat them just like David Jr. treated his wife. Just lay there in your bed while your wife is convulsing and suffering, David Jr. You spent all your money on yourself and there is none left to pay for a Doctor visit. Where were the super spiritual Tiemans when all this was going on? Did not one Tieman or one Board member have the faith to pray for a healing? The more I read this story the more sick it makes me to my stomach.

Anonymous said...

The thing about RWD is that he always made sure he was taken care of. He did not care if we were taken care of, but he would make sure his family was taken care of. He did not care about our families, he just wanted to make sure they were not going to interfere with our lives. He said in class one time that I was not going to get my sister saved (because she had come for a visit and he saw in her someone he could not control so he felt intimidated enough to blast me in class over it).

I was around RWD enough to see him as a mere mortal man, without the facade. I saw him in the hospital and he was suffering with pain and knew death was not far off. He was a man haunted with fear; not a man certain of God's blessing and protection in his life. When he died, from what I understand, the guard who watched over his house at night, was the one there when he died.

Another time, I saw him without his false teeth, and the image is making me laugh right now :)

Diana Molino said...

Wow, the things we put up with in that cult. Though there are many things I cannot relate to in this story, since I never got to have kids in NTCC (since my first pastor convinced me not to and this compelling continued into bible school), a lot of this story does ring true to me and my experience, as far as them guilting you into cutting your family off and the cultish tactics of drawing you in, only to control you.

I did get permission to go to college though, I took a piano course at Tacoma community college, and other bible school wives went as well, and took other types of courses,but we were supposed to not talk about it because so many before us were not allowed to go; a double standard.

This encourages me even more to write my story.

Anonymous said...

If you have a story, please share it and expose them.

Anonymous said...

And another thing... I can only imagine how much more mean she is because of these stories getting out and exposing her. People are much less likely to take her crap when they KNOW it's crap that they are taking. When she gets resistance to her abuse from ministers and their wives she has to know it's because people are wise to her. Not only that but they reflect on putz face in WA.

When

Anonymous said...

{the exception being 2011, there was a grim prognosis about my ex,}
I wonder what ailment d Jr. had since he is seen in pictures smiling and going on with his new wife.
I remember at a conference he was telling everyone how that God had healed his bum knee and he was jumping and dancing all around!

It took courage for this lady to get out of that toxic environment and though she had to leave her little behind hopefully in the future she can have her back.

Don and Ange said...

Diana Molino said,

"Wow, the things we put up with in that cult."

DNA say,

Mark Vrankovich, in his excellent article titled "Mind Control Toolbox" addressed this issue in the paragraph defining the mind control tool of Deception. He points out that cults don't immediately reveal their full doctrine, or, in our words, the list of "DO"s and "DON'T"s. Instead, cults practice deception, working in the (unwritten) rules "one piece at a time." This, Vrankovich says, is the "frog in the pot" tactic.

Frogs are placed in a pot of cold water. The water is inviting and all seems well. But gradually, the heat is turned up under the pot, until the water boils. By the time the frog realizes something is wrong, it is too late; the heat has made him unable to escape.

That's how deception works in a cult. The new recruit is brought to church, often by a friend or relative who has a genuine concern for their soul. All the cult members love-bomb the new recruit with a flowery show of love that makes the new recruit feel wonderful, just like the frog in the cold water; everything seems fine.

Over time, however, the true doctrines are revealed. The hints are dropped: No shorts, ball caps, or facial hair for men, no slacks, haircuts, or makeup for women. The new recruit conforms, or the lovebombing decreases and the pressure from the pulpit increases. Conform or feel the wrath of kahn. :-p

By the time that the new recruit figures things out, it is too late. They are no longer comfortable, things are heating up; they have invested time, money, and effort. They may have been married off quickly to a die-hard borgite and have children to consider.

Yes, the things we put up with as we tried to salvage our family and salvation from this group of bottom feeders who suck the lifeblood and plasma from true Christians!

They have perfected their system of deception and matchmaking, relationship manipulation and deceit. They don't care who is hurt.

As this story shares, they are well aware of their evil intentions, even threatening in advance to do the very thing they have done - steal the Christian's child from them.

Readers, take heed. This is no joke. The ntcc is not a benign or friendly group. They are a cancer on the body of Christ. They will work together to destroy your family and take your children from you.

The woman who shared her story is only one of their victims. Their are countless others who have not yet come forward to share their heartache and loss caused by the ntcc preying on them.

Read abut the Mind Control Toolbox @

http://freebelievers.com/article/mind-control-tool-box

[Copyright © Cultwatch 1996 - 2001. Written by Mark Vrankovich]

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said,

"I was friends with the Dobyn's brothers (great guys by the way) . . ."

DNA say,

I corresponded with Craig Dobyns; he seemed quite congenial. In fact, he shared the tip that one could place "end #" at the bottom of one's e-mail, and that would prohibit advertisements being placed on one's mail. I immediately added the "end #" to my mail's signature block, so it is automatically added to each letter and now no ads are attached. It's very convenient.

This anonymous also said something about how the Dobyns brothers felt about their sister. I would have to say she too felt something like that about them; because she always spoke in a disdainful tone about them when talking to us about them. Shaking my head.

We find it alarming that this woman and her husband have occupied this elevated status in the organization. Their son, Davy-O, also seems unqualified to be a pastor or even to carry a minister's license. He receives disability from the VA for military service; yet his ailment(s) are not strictly physical. He has been seen jumping over a wall, playing football, and now this new testimony of him leaping and praising God for healing his bum knee? How is he receiving 100% disability? Is there a non-physical ailment such as PTSD? If so, it seems unwise to have him carry a minister's license. Unable to rule well his own house. Unable to provide for his own family. Worse than an infidel. These are not our judgments. This is simply what the Word states. Neither David Tieman Sr. nor David Tieman Jr. are fit for the offices the ntcc has placed them in.

David Tieman Sr. once boasted from the pulpit in conference that he wanted "one of those red chairs" as he pointed at the red chairs the Board Members were sitting in on the platform. There was a collective gasp from the audience at his audacity. Now, the bible does say,

[1Ti 3:1 KJV] 1 This [is] a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

But the bible also lists certain qualifications for the man who would be a bishop or deacon and for his wife; and this is only a partial list of the qualifications:

[1Ti 3:4-5, 8, 11-12 KJV] 4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) ... 8 Likewise [must] the deacons [be] grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; ... 11 Even so [must their] wives [be] grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things. 12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

How can you claim by any stretch of the imagination that the Tieman's meet these standards? They do not rule well their own household. Nichelle's boasting about riding around in a million dollar RV smacks of coveteousness and materialism. Their actions toward others are not hospitable nor even congenial. How in the world do they persist as Overseers in this corrupt organization? Nichelle has clearly manipulated her son's marriages, divorces, and remarriage. How does that pass as Christianity? Why do people continue to allow this?

If you are a Christian man in the organization who desires to be the ntcc equivalent of a bishop or deacon, you should be in the headquarters office pointing out these glaring inconsistencies in the tiemans' lives vs. the bible requirements for their position. Who knows, you might get to sit in one of those red chairs and drive a hand-me-down million dollar RV while poor church members scrape together another fuel offering for your travels after selling their plasma at the local blood clinic, sitting next to all the junkies and homeless folks who do so too.

Don and Ange said...

[1Ti 5:8, 22 KJV] 8 But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel. ... 22 Lay hands suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other men's sins: keep thyself pure.

Don and Ange said...

Abandonment seems to be a common practice among board member in-laws. Olson's son in law was abandoned because he gave his daughter a swimming lesson in a public pool. The Tieman situation was planned out well in advance and it was executed in such an evil way. This young woman did not deserve to be treated like this by the Tiemans. We talked to her on the phone for a long time and she is a very nice young lady that loves her children so deeply that she would do anything for them. She did everything she could to make things work with David Jr. and they set her up. Her dead-beat in-laws or (out-laws is what they really are), gave her no support and her husband would not provide for the family. She had to take matters into her own hands to provide for her family. Consider how wrong this is. She went back home to get financial help and a job because they wouldn't allow her to work and support her family. They sent her two oldest kids back to her, and kept the youngest and black listed her. They got a court order against her and accused her of abandoning her children. Then they buried her in the legal process just like David Jr. promised. A single mom raising two kids does not have the financial resources to go through this process. But David Sr. and Nichelle have plenty of resources to handle a case like this. They financed this with the tithes and offerings of church members. They are overseers in a non-profit organization. They don't have outside jobs. Their money comes from tithe payers. Recently we were told that She was allowed to visit with her youngest daughter. She had a fun day planned out. David Jr. showed up in a wheel chair and claimed to have an infected toe. Apparently this was a supervised visit and because of the wheel chair they could not do anything. She had to cancel all of her plans because David Jr. was crippled and couldn't do anything. She also had to pay for David and his new/old wife's travel expenses and put them up in a hotel. The Tiemans have enough money to pay for a long and drawn out legal battle, but there were no funds available to pay Jr's way. Is it any surprise? Because she was not allowed to work, She had to sell her plasma to support them because Jr. was a deadbeat husband and dad and the overseers encouraged it rather than helping them. Meanwhile, women were allowed to work in other situations. If they were overseas and couldn't make ends meet, they would be encouraged to get a job and help their husbands support the ministry so that the organization wouldn't have to send them any money. News Alert: This is not a Christian organization. David and Nichelle call themselves Christians, pastors, apostles and overseers. They are nothing more than modern day pharisees, hypocrites and snakes. When you think you have seen it all, you really haven't. There is no depth that these parasites will not stoop down to.

Anonymous said...

Wow and wow!
The abuse doesn't stop even when you leave!
Crazy!
How can people like that be put in position of overseers? Could it be that this position requires acting like a demanding overlord?
Seems to me that this young mother has more on the ball than dear davi0 , what kind of creep shows up in a wheelchair!
Sounds like mommy dearest put him up to those shenanigans!

Don and Ange said...

From Mark Vrankovich's Mind Control Tool Box.

Exclusivism

A mind control cult will promote an "Us verses Them" environment. They will teach their members that their church is the only true church, the only church in which you can be saved. If you leave the cult then it is said you have "fallen away from God." This is done to instill fear in the members which can be expressed like this: If you ever think of leaving this body of true Christians or do something which forces us to expel you from this body then you will be losing your salvation and God will hate you. There is nowhere else you can go and still be a Christian. This is a powerful control mechanism.

Exclusivism is fear based control mechanism, the Bible tells us that we have no reason to fear except for a healthy fear of God. Exclusivism imposes false criteria on salvation - "If you do not join us and/or if you are not doing what we are doing you are not saved." This of course is a serious doctrinal error ingrained in the practice of the group. Remember, just because a group does not teach it officially does not mean they do not practice it."


How often have you heard the ntcc make the outlandish claim that they are "the last move of God on earth."? e.f. gesang and m.c. kekel have both threatened people that they could not make it as Christians outside of the ntcc. That is rubbish and spiritual abuse. This story shows multiple times where the tiemans threatened their daughter-in-law about her salvation and threatened to keep her youngest daughter; which they have now done. That is spiritual abuse and, in our opinion, cult-induced kidnapping. Don't bother pointing out davyo's role as sperm donor. He is not able to care for himself, much less a child; his parents, the tiemans david sr and nichelle, despite the Overseer title, are equally abject failures at providing for their house, as proven by them relying on food stamps from their daughter-in-law who was trying to feed her 3 children and deadbeat davyo. This insanity has nothing to do with God or pleasing God. It is all about them controlling you until you conform to the cult!

Unknown said...

Id love to see this young lady put together a go fund me page to get her daughter back from ntcc. I would think a family attorney wouldnt have a hard time making the case.

Eric

Nancy Witherell said...

Wow - these stories are intense. I came here to post a complaint about a "pastor" from NTCC in Redding California - but now my complaint seems petty and I am just grateful that my experience with this "religion" is limited to being the parents of the people who purchased the Gire house which turned out to be FULL of undisclosed damages and filth which required the entire family spend a week (and who knows how much money repairing and cleaning). Also, he left a ton of trash that will cost hundreds of dollars to dispose of. Clearly this pastor clearly lacks integrity but from what I read here, that's a minor flaw compared to some of the others. Hopefully this church will lose it's supporters and dry up but the world is full of scam artists and even more full of ignorant followers (case in point Donald Trump supporters) so who knows? Well I wish the victims of these scammers a full emotional recovery!

Don and Ange said...

Nancy Witherell said,

"the Gire house which turned out to be FULL of undisclosed damages and filth" . . . "this pastor clearly lacks integrity but from what I read here, that's a minor flaw compared to some of the others."

Don and Ange say,

There are some major flaws in Howard Gire that have yet to come to light. He too, in our opinion, should not wear the title of "Pastor" nor even of "Christian", based on testimony about him.

We regret that you had this unfortunate experience because of him. And we are thankful that you took time to share your story. Oftentimes what seems petty is an indicator of a much more troubling issue. There probably wasn't much ice showing above the water, just the tip of the iceberg; yet the Titanic was sunk just the same. Howard Gire's house has major flaws and being FULL of undisclosed damages and dirt is just an indicator of something deeper and more filthy than any pile of garbage.

Thanks again for you comment.

Maurice said...

Wow, ntcc a physically rich organization, that's spiritually poor.

Don and Ange said...

That's it, exactly, Maurice. They are wretched, and naked, and blind. As it is written:

Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: (Rev 3:17 KJV)

But they don't have to stay that way!

I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. (Rev 3:18 KJV)
As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. (Rev 3:19 KJV)

Don and Ange said...

It isn't just Nichelle Tieman on indictment here; though we have highlighted her significant role in this story of abuse; she is not alone in these abuses. And her 2nd daughter-in-law, who wrote this story, did not want to single out any individual. She recognizes that the whole organization is at fault; and she honestly loved little Davyo; that was clear from our conversations with her. But his life and actions are products of his upbringing, sharply molded by the tenets of this corrupt organization, the ntcc, and his mother, who, in the oft bellowed words of r w davis, refused to "cut the umbilical cord" and, in our opinion, of his father, who refused to step up, preferring to allow nichelle to wear the proverbial pants in the family. But even though the problems seen here are systemic within the ntcc, here's the thing:

When we die, each of us will be utterly alone before the throne of God. We won't be able to point the finger at a man and say, "Don't condemn me, God; Pastor said . . . ." davis won't be there with you when you are judged.

Our only hope to survive the judgment is to plead the blood of Jesus.

Anonymous said...

Don and Ange said, "She went back home to get financial help and a job because they wouldn't allow her to work and support her family. They sent her two oldest kids back to her, and kept the youngest and black listed her. They got a court order against her and accused her of abandoning her children. Then they buried her in the legal process just like David Jr. promised."

Anonymous said - " It is also sad with the children involved and I am willing to bet that David isn't sending child support and Nichelle would never acknowledge any of the children, even the one they have together. "

I guess I was more right than I thought, but to this group if you are not blood or married into the elite families then you don't mean anything to them. Even when you are married into them, they will cut you off and your children if you do not conform to their image and pattern for your life. David can drum, dance, sing and tambourine in church or a conference but can't take care of his wife and all 3 of those children? He is such a mama's boy that he can't tell his mom and dad to stay out of his relationship and to make it happen to financially support them? For some reason he left his first wife, probably because of his mental illness, marries a single mom of 2 approved by Nichelle Tieman, has a child with her and starts secretly communicating with his first wife, probably at the request of Mommy Dearest when this wife started asking questions and demanding this boy become a man. This controlling, no backbone boy doesn't have the guts or nuts to tell his wife what he's been doing until she exposes it and now they are in a custody battle because they took the only blood related daughter to David Tieman. Not only has he not been a Christian in the marriage and his mother's manipulative ways, but to separate a child from their mother and cause such division in a family is WICKED and DISGUSTING. I hope she does start a GoFundMe page, gets a news outlet and site to pick up the story, call a representative or congressman, gets an attorney to work pro-bono and more to put such heat on NTCC that the Tiemans have to give back that girl and scurry back to the darkness they came from.

Julie said...

Wow! Way to go in stepping out and telling what happened in your experience with NTCC. It totally makes sense to me in the very difficult decisions you have had to make involving your children. My heart aches for you with all you have gone through and continue to go through. Setting up marriages and matchmaking is what they do. I went through a set-up marriage myself. It is just not right how things with visitation have been handled with you and I am so sorry. This just shows that this group has not stopped their evil ways and the bible school is just as wicked as it as always been. What a bunch of low down jerks running this group and allowing others to control people. I am so disgusted with these events and for anyone to think they have changed for the better is being so foolish in their thinking.

Anonymous said...

Thank you for having the courage to also tell your story Julie. I know that all the abuse you suffered was traumatic but anything else that you can do to provide dates, places and times to add some more to your testimony against NTCC would be appreciated. Predators like Kekel, Fontenot, St Claire, Jordan and many others can go years without having any victim come forward because they have created an atmosphere of shame because of what happened and at the same time make you defend and trust them. This is what is called Stockholm syndrome and these wicked people use their influence and power to prey upon young women, join together and break up marriages, and many more ungodly things. This may also be a good person to reach out to because of all the sexual abuse within the Catholic church, some states have opened up statute of limitations for victims of sexual crimes - Jeff Herman Law

Anonymous said...

This may not be the most current but many states have a limit for the statute of limitations but for forcible rape there may be no limit. Also some states could have a long time on other sexual crimes like 30 years + 18 for minors. Statute of Limitations Chart

Don and Ange said...

In this comment we hope to show readers how the ntcc 'leaders' used "Fear and Intimidation" - a tool from the "Mind Control Toolbox" - to break the author of this blog post. Not only is this not Christ-like, it was completely unnecessary. The lady who wrote her story was doing what she was supposed to do. And much more can be said about the trumped-up charges (accusations) made against her. Hopefully other people will chime in on this kangaroo court / witch-hunt conducted by the tiemans against their second daughter in law.

The author of this blog post shared,


"I met my in-laws a year prior to getting married to their son. I knew they were over seers and did not give them much thought. She was kind of nosy and asked a lot of questions. I thought you were just supposed to answer, because they are over seers and that is what you do."

[. . .]

"That night his mother approached me and convinced me to stay for fellowship, at the fellowship, she started in with questions, how old was I, what happened in my former marriage, how old were my kids, and the list goes on. I answered, I thought it was wrong not to, the overseers were high up, and you knew it."

[. . .]

"On one such occasion in spring of 2009 I was called into the Pastors office, and there in that office was my ex and in-laws, my kids were shuttled off to the nursery, and the door closed. We sat there for 2 or 3 hours, the accusation this time, was you wear mascara, there are no way your eye lashes are that dark, or that thick, you know you’re lying, just admit you are lying and you can go. I said no I’m not, I said if I were going to wear makeup I would dye my hair, and wear something to get rid of the bags under my eyes. Nothing I said mattered, there was a constant accusation, and it would not stop, they said we were just having a discussion, but when yelling is involved that is not a discussion. When someone is saying you’re a liar and you aren’t what are you supposed to do. This thing about mascara went on for a few months."


(Bold and italics added by DNA for emphasis)

From Mind Control Toolbox by Mark Vrankovich

"Fear and Intimidation"

"Leadership is feared. To disagree with leadership is to disagree with God. If the leaders tell you to do something, you had better do it. Often intense breaking sessions are employed to destroy any supposed rebellion or threat to the leadership. These sessions can involve many people at once attacking the character and motives of the target.

The Bible tells Christians not to "lord it over people," but rather to be one another's servants. Jesus attacked the Pharisees who placed themselves between God and the people. It does not take much to realise that fear and intimidation is not the biblical model for Christian leadership. (Fear and Intimidation is very different from having respect for Christian leaders.) "


DNA say,

We hope everyone can see how the tiemans were using this Mind Control Tool to breakdown this lady over a completely trumped-up accusation. This conduct is unbecoming of so-called Christians and is a hallmark indicator that the ntcc is a cult!

Anonymous said...

I remember when she came to a conference and low and behold she had "married" davyo.
It was a troubling because I remember her husband how that he was in the military and here she is now divorced and remarried to the son of the tiemans!
I only wonder if the tiemans saw this lady as a meal ticket for their son because she might be receiving child support from the military father of her 2 girls! All I remember is that her girls looked somber all the time.
So glad that they made it out but how do you explain to them why their baby sister is gone?
Just insane!



Anonymous said...

It sickens me that I gave money in support of these abusers. God forgive me!

Anonymous said...

I don't know if it's forgiveness or wisdom that I want... Clearly I was a complete moron for being apart of Kekels crew.

Anonymous said...

So I like the idea of putting these clowns on a pedestal and dismantling them. Whether it be Kekel and his abuses or this wicked witch. Targeting them one at a time to air their dirty laundry seems extremely beneficial to those both in and out of the org.

We've all had our experiences with these cruel and unusual nut jobs and it's time they get dimed out specifically. This is the perfect type of posting that points a direct light on Tieman or fill in the blank for the next target. I'm sure someone in the org will read this and be comforted or even better, able to stand up and throw it back in her face.

My only wish is I would have read this or known about this prior to idolizing these people. I would get great satisfaction from treating them as just an average joe rather than some high and mighty board member seated at the right hand of the father.


Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said:

"Targeting them one at a time to air their dirty laundry seems extremely beneficial to those both in and out of the org."

DNA said:

It's sad that we have to target them to air their dirty laundry. I wish they didn't have dirty laundry to air. If they would treat people with respect and human decency, we wouldn't have to do this. The problem with the Tiemans and many of the other borg leaders is that they have no regard for the people who support them. They have no qualms about publicly humiliating people. What they did to their own daughter in law was sickening. I'm sure they would love for this story to be kept a secret but the fact is that they hurt a young woman and her daughters in a cruel way. We don't take pleasure in rubbing their noses in it, but we don't shy away from exposing them because you can bet they will boldly and cruelly mistreat others again. The author of this blogpost did the right thing. I know it isn't easy to put yourself out there and especially on a public blog. There are a lot of people that have respect for her and people support her for what she went through and her willingness to share because we all can relate. This is how cults work and this is what they do. You won't read about Jesus treating anyone this way. You have to ignore the life of Jesus and do the direct opposite if you wish to pattern yourself after the Tiemans, Olson, Kekel or many of the ntcc cult leaders.

We have warned people about the Tiemans many times and especially about Nichelle. Some folks thought we were just harping on them because it was personal. One man said that we should "leave that poor woman alone". That "poor woman" wouldn't hesitate to destroy the marriage of her own lazy son and his family in a heartbeat for her own selfish and greedy purposes. What she did was horrible. She hasn't changed a bit. If anything she has gotten worse. I know the ntcc leaders and big wigs will defend her and their own actions. Many of the cult members will dismiss it all until it happens to them and it will happen to them. It happens to everyone, and that is why so many leave. A few will stay and justify their existence by pointing their finger at all who have left and they will accuse us of hating God and leaving the people of God. But when it's all said and done, what kind of testimony will they have? We are not like all these sinners. We pray and fast often. We walk the isles of the church chanting ritualistic prayers and we shout Amen at every church service. How many people noticed how the Tiemans treated their daughter in law? How many turned a blind eye? What will their legacy be?

Don and Ange said...

Tanya Davis Kekel tweets her favorite saying from her racist idol, Malcolm X.

Click here

Don and Ange said...

You might ask: What's wrong with Tanya tweeting a Malcolm X comment? All I can say is that while we were in the ntcc, there was no wiggle room for any other belief other than ntcc doctrine. The Kekels profess Christianity. I know this is not going to go over well with some folks but these Muslims were the offspring of the very people who God commanded the Children of Israel to destroy. Don't shoot the messenger, I'm just sharing what is in the bible. The Muslims hate the Jews and they hate the God who chose Israel to be His people. Well, the Jews allowed them to live and now we have Muslims persecuting Christians to the death. It's not the Catholics whom Davis called the great whore, nor is it the Baptists or any other American religion, that is killing Christians. It's the radical Muslims that want to rid the earth of Christians and Jews. If you were a Bible School student and you were to attend a different Church, you would be kicked out. Yet Tanya Kekel is over on Twitter sharing the words of a Man who spread hate across America in the name of a religion that hates God and thinks that we are infidels that need to be destroyed. Do you see a double standard here or is your head buried in the sand? The Kekels preach against all other religions. Anyway, it's up to you if you want to follow Kekel. Everything I've said in this blog post has been taught in the ntcc Seminary at one time or other, because I've heard it from ntccc pulpits. They are hypocrites for requiring you to live under their own version of Sharia law which differs very little from the Muslim version. Before you can accuse an ntcc preacher of child molestation or rape, you must have 2 or 3 witnesses that just happened to be watching, or Olson and Kekel will tell you to get lost. It doesn't matter if one of their preachers raped your daughter, you don't have 2 or 3 witnesses so the victim gets to suffer for the rest of her or his life while the pervert walks free.

Anonymous said...

All the disparaging remarks the borg has made about MLK jr and black people in general. Now she quotes Malcom X. Moses IS truly dead in the org.

Anonymous said...

What happened to the scripture that I heard over & over about seeking the counsel of the ungodly whenever somebody didn't choose to seek the pastor's advice?
I was rereading the post and it's sad the way "shell" treated the baby:
--I said I will feed my baby if I want, I went to pick up the car seat where my youngest daughter was and she grabbed it and started jerking on it, she would not let me have my baby."
My question about this is why is this baby still in the car seat sleeping at grandmas?
There's some very nice car seats but knowing the history of their money troubles I doubt this car seat was a luxury model comfortable enough to use as a baby bed!



Anonymous said...

Hilarious!!! Malcolm X now? Oh wait till Ashmore gets wind of this!

It will give even more credence to calling the org a whore.

If you wouldn't mind please take that pic down of Tieman... That makes me sick every time I have to look at it.

Unknown said...

I 2nd the pic request.


Eric

Don and Ange said...

As painful as it is to look at, we need to leave it up. People need to see this. As for the yellow hair, I guess she was taking part in a skit or a workshop for children's church. It's hard to believe that this hypocrite would acuse her daughter in law of wearing Mascara and then turn around and die her hair yellow like a clown. They used to jack people up for wearing clown make up. I guess Nichelle is nothing more than a Jezebel. Any other woman in the ntcc with Nichelle's lack of hair would be required to wear a wig like Verna and many other ntcc women. Rules only apply to the slave class who. I have to wonder what God thinks about all of this....

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous and Unknown/Eric both said they want the pic of nichelle taken down; because they feel sick when they see it. We get that! We really do. But the pic stays. Here's why:

Here's the deal with the nichelle pic. It is a picture worthy of it's own blog post. But for now, let's just cover the highlights or give you the low down:

The pic of nichelle with yellow clown-style hair came from the public photos posted by ntcc Pasadena, TX on their church FaceBook page. It looks like she was standing in the "children's church" room; and there were some children in those public pictures too. One senses that ntcc is proudly proclaiming, "Train up a child . . . " Well, Tieman's clearly FAILed there with their own son Davyo, who is 30 years old and on his third marriage. Not only that, but two of those marriages were to the same girl, who was only 16 years old the first time they tied the knot. And guess what? She too was raised in the ntcc! H E L L O ! That marriage ended in failure and divorce. And then Davyo was matchmade by nichelle and married off to the young lady / single mom who wrote this blog post. That marriage too ended in failure and divorce. And within days of the judge signing off on Davyo's second divorce, he was remarried to his recycled first borg wife, Amy. How sick is that? If you don't think that's weird, look at the scriptures we posted at the very bottom of this blog post and see how God feels about recycling your spouse. . . And note the language: "Abomination" -- That term is used in the Bible rather exclusively for some pretty heinous stuff . . . But that's not the worst of it:

Also in the ntcc Pasadena Facebook photos, on one wall of that building, there are multiple photographs surrounding letters that jauntily declare, "We are FAMILY."

Seriously? "We are FAMILY"??? We are family as long as nichelle approves of you? Otherwise you are systematically targeted and set up to be cut off. You are run off, then lied about. They systematically send you packing and claim you abandoned them. They make it impossible to stay, tell you to go, then act like it was your plan. They do it all so they can steal your child. They didn't like you teaching her she could be something other than an ntcc teen bride barefoot and barren in the barrio! So they marked you, lied about you, stole your daughter and then have the nerve to say "We are Family"???

And they do it all under the robe of religion in a house they say is dedicated to God?

They must think God is dumb or blind like they are.

The audacity is alarming.

If you are a parent in ntcc, start thinking about how you can safely remove your child from this unhealthy environment before they start gunning for you!

Don and Ange said...

The ntcc and tiemans act like we don't know who they are. But we do. We were there in 1990 when Davyo was 4 years old and swinging innocently on a swing set. I watched nichelle make passes at Don and push him out of a boat at a lake so she could ogle him in his wet clothing. I remember the fellowship meeting in Junction City, Kansas, with the McKays. I remember the message that was preached, the scripture text:

[Isa 1:18 KJV] 18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

God was extending mercy to nichelle for her adultery; she cried her crocodile tears and made a fuss when Davis came through Colorado Springs to remove the tiemans from that work due to nichelle's adultery. I knew it all then. I knew she was lying when she told davis I felt God had called me to bible school. And I forgave her for that, even though it cost Don and me 20 years of being separated by borg manmade rules.

But here's nichelle, 26 years later, still wreaking havoc in her own family and in the lives of this lady who wrote this blog post and in the life of her little daughter. But don't think for a minute that God will allow this mess to continue forever.

Here's another Word:

[2Ki 9:25-26 KJV] 25 Then said [Jehu] to Bidkar his captain, Take up, [and] cast him in the portion of the field of Naboth the Jezreelite: for remember how that, when I and thou rode together after Ahab his father, the LORD laid this burden upon him; 26 Surely I have seen yesterday the blood of Naboth, and the blood of his sons, saith the LORD; and I will requite thee in this plat, saith the LORD. Now therefore take [and] cast him into the plat [of ground], according to the word of the LORD.

Anonymous said...

Another thing that is sad is that Amy Ruth's father is an usher there in Graham and no doubt was first approached about his daughter from the beginning. They groom these girls so young within NTCC and at 16 they are already thinking of going to seminary and who the brother is that they'll marry. They get married with little to no life skills outside of high school, no job experience and get put into a relationship with someone that just got out of the military, may have little to no savings or job experience and is a demanding douche bag carbon copy of Davis and Kekel.

So fast forward several years later and Disabled Drummer Boy Davy's new hand picked wife doesn't want to stand for his laziness and questions him. She finds out what he has really been doing and how he has been communicating with his first wife for some time. This all blows up and Mama and Daddy step in and use their resources to take the youngest child away from her mother, which is sickening. Like I said SOCIOPATHS

Don and Ange said...

Both Amy Ruth and david "davyo" tieman jr. are products of the borg collective that raised them. The manmade rules, the pastor worship, the matchmaking, the divorce on demand, the teen brides. All that comes from the sick head of the borg, who surrounded himself with the most corrupt group and rewarded those who sinned the most. The problem is the ntcc. And the ntcc is the problem.

Anonymous said...

So the Tieman's stepped in and took that girl from her mom? Are they trying to say she is an unfit parent? They will use their legal resources to smear and tear down her character in the courts while she has to rebuild her life and take care of 2 other girls after not being allowed to work and living off of government assistance for several years. They will also try to find a way to prevent David from paying child support.

Unfortunately there is not alot that the police will do because they were married and that is her father and they probably didn't create a legal custody agreement before being officially divorced. It usually if they are unmarried that it is assumed the mother has full rights. Hopefully someone with legal and law enforcement connections can help this mother, there is no telling the damage that is being done in this young girls life being raised apart from her mother and in an emotionally abusive environment.

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said:

"They will use their legal resources to smear and tear down her character in the courts while she has to rebuild her life and take care of 2 other girls after not being allowed to work and living off of government assistance for several years."

DNA said:

That's exactly what they did. It is amazing to us that she was able to get 3 jobs and support her two older children and fight the court battle for as long as she did. She just ran out of money and was buried in the legal process. You know that David Jr. didn't have the money to fight this legal battle. David Sr. used the tithe dollars of brain washed suckers to drag these hearings out. There were quite a few hearings in this process and this woman had to travel to Texas to fight her case in court. So all of you ntcc'rs who pay tithe and give in offerings to the Tiemans, this is your tithe dollars at work. I know you think that your tithe dollars are going towards the work of the Lord and saving the lost, but in all actuality your tithe dollars were spent in this legal battle so that this worthless dud, Davyo, could lay around the house all day, unemployed, while he and his worthless parents raise another young girl in an abusive cult.

This is how the ntcc works. Such a family atmosphere. Such a display of the Love of Christ. If you are in the ntcc, you are contributing to this abuse of power and waste of money. It's not God's money. It's the ntcc's money once you give it to them. God doesn't need your money, but the Tiemans do. So does Olson and Kekel. Man, you've got to be blind as a bat to keep throwing your money at these creeps. What a colossal waste of resources.

Anonymous said...

So I saw the movie spotlight and one of the resources the reporters use is a psychologist who has studied priest abuse for decades. In the movie upwards of 6% of all priests act out with children and 50% aren't even celibate.

The bottom line was it all starts with the vow to remain celibate. This is a main driver for acting out inappropriately.

I see a link here with people who've lived in this environment for any significant length of time. Tieman appears to have tried sleeping with soldiers while married (I believe successfully but I'm not sure). I think the legalism combined with the sexual reclusiveness causes some big problems in a world that's so loose.

While I agree "waiting for marriage" is the right thing and the godly thing, I view the turning of the screws in all manner of life choices causes both sexual problems and evil behavior.

Women who are not satisfied in the bedroom are some of the cruelest people on earth. Tieman appears to fit this bill.

Anonymous said...

"The bottom line was it all starts with the vow to remain celibate. This is a main driver for acting out inappropriately."

I respectfully disagree Anonymous. Their motivation comes from the desire to manipulate and control others in order fulfill selfish needs. Take Bishop Eddie Long or Jim Bakker as an example.

Nichelle is just a controlling narcissist. Lowest of low to use a baby to get back at someone.

Don and Ange said...

There is truth in both of the above anonymous comments. The first comment had more to do with child molesting in the catholic church. I have to agree that celibacy does create an environment that is propitious to sexual impropriety. I can tell you as a young Christian GI that ntcc forced celibacy creates unnecessary hardships in my life. I think it is honorable to wait until marriage to have sex but when you are in a cult whose leaders manipulate relationships, it forces people into temptations and sexual frustration that many young people are not able to handle. The Catholics take a vow of celibacy for life and it totally messes up their minds. It is very evil and turns many of them into child molesting predators.

Celibacy in the ntcc usually creates more problems for the church members than it does for the Pastors or the leadership of the ntcc. These leaders fall into the category that the second comment delineated, which is narcissism. 90% of the ntcc perverts that we know of were married. In the ntcc, if you are not married, you are not going to be a pastor, or placed in a leadership role for the most part. I don't know of many exceptions to this rule in the ntcc.

Nichelle Tieman has a husband but that didn't stop her from cheating. She is a true narcissist also. She controls the church members while her spineless husband sits back and lets her. The enablers in the ntcc are just as bad and in some cases worse than the narcissistic manipulators. Davyo was an enabler. He allowed his wife to be disrespected and abused by his sick mother while David Sr. sat back and did nothing. David Jr. should have loved and respected his wife. He should have cut the umbilical cord and told his mother to get her nose out of his business. But he did the opposite. He ran to mommy every time he had a problem. This is sick. The Tiemans are a bad lot. They are not fit to be in a position of authority over an Aardvark, and here they are lording over peoples lives in a cushy overseer position in the ntcc.

Don and Ange said...

The predators in the ntcc are going to be more accountable than the Catholic priests because they have wives. The ntcc leadership manipulates many of the relationships in the ntcc and they match make people that were not meant to be together. This creates strained relationships which are further aggravated by controlling doctrines and man made rules. Then you have Overseers and their wives interfering with every little thing that goes on between a man and his wife. They literally drive wedges between husbands and wives. They pick on who they deem to be the weakest link in a marriage or the one that doesn't fully conform to their every whim. They push that person to the edge over and over again, until they can't take the abuse any more and they leave the church, which gets them black listed and makes them a candidate to be deprived of children. They want the children so they can marry them off at a young age and seal their fate in the ntcc for a considerable amount of time. It's all about breeding more tithe payers and soul snatchers. Marriage in the ntcc is like a sentence for a lot of people. If people in the ntcc were so filled with God, love and joy, they wouldn't be abusive towards families. For a so called Christian church the revolving door of divorce seems to keep turning more than it does in a lot of "sinners" lives.

Anonymous said...

It is shocking the abuse that has come out of NTCC. It started with one person bring out their story and many more came out with what happened to them. I believe this is by far the worse I have heard of what NTCC has caused to happen to people.

Does anyone know what caused his first wife to divorce David or what was done to bring them back together? I wonder if his first wife couldn't have children and this second wife's child is being used to make the first wife remarry him because she wants a child. The things NTCC does to people's lives is just insane. I hope more come out with their experiences with NTCC. Maybe they deny her heaven unless she remarried or family threat to disown her. I can only wonder.

Anonymous said...

David Tieman Sr is an absolute coward and is unable to stand up to his wife when she demands for him to buy something or to go somewhere or when she gets involved in her son's or other marriages. Not only is he a coward but an enabler as he is using the tithe from Pasadena, TX and throughout the organization to pay for separating a child from her mother. We know Assistant Overseers get a salary, traveling stipend, corporate credit card, offerings wherever they go and a free home and vehicles.

Now Joseph Krause is the pastor there and Tieman just rides around in his RV, paid for with your NTCC tithes and offerings, while he and his wife live the good life. Talk about take the money and run! Little Nut Davy can't separate from his mama's apron strings and she hand picked and tried to hen peck his ex-wife and her children. Nichelle is a serial adulteress, conniving and malicious pathological liar and had the audacity to kidnap a child from her mother. What kind of environment will that girl be raised in by a sociopathic grandparent and spineless father and grandfather?

Anonymous said...

Just left a reply on the homo pastors thread.

http://www.facebook.com/2ntccsurvivors/

Anonymous said...

This is a sad account from an innocent woman that was neglected by her weak husband and abused by some despicable people, not to mention having her youngest child taken from her. This should be seen by everyone in NTCC to learn what they are part of - How Cults Work

Why allow your life to be scrutinized and torn down by these corrupt and wicked people? Why give your money in support of more real estate investments and rental homes you will never benefit from? Why give your savings, children's college fund or what could be used for your family's financial security to this group? Why quit a job and move somewhere because someone told you to "pray about it" and assume they have heard from God, so that means you should go? Why go to a place without any prior planning and be financially responsible for a lease or mortgage without having a job and sufficient savings?

So many within this group work menial jobs, live one paycheck from disaster and are blindly following leaders that live in mansions, drive luxury vehicles (this is just Kekels SUV and RVs, have vacation homes (like the ones in Phoenix , and access to escrows and church accounts while they live in squalor. As much as they talked about coffee around there, you all need to WAKE UP and smell the coffee!

Anonymous said...

All I can say is that the ntcc pastors who are footing the bills of their church and then sending their personal tithe and all that money that comes into their church are gullible.
Can't they see the trap they're under?
If there's a minister out there who has a little on the ball, what use is it for him or his family?
They are limited what they can do.
They might have a nice little running car or a nice mortgage on a house but their life is tied up to whatever the org demands from them.
They might appear in their Facebook pages like they're having fun or going on a little trip here and there but that is not the rest of the story.
They try to say that everything is done for God and that they'll have a reward in heaven and little sayings like that but they are bound by men who their only purpose is to keep this religious business going.
Is not about the love of God or trying to spread the gospel or to help people is about feeding their
ego and the need to belong to something.
Yes, many times those leaders might give a gift or even money to somebody but they do it just to appear that they care or to keep appearances.
Just when somebody wakes up from their religious fog another one is recruited to take their place which is sad, and that's exactly what rw said in one conference, that if you didn't want to be in graham somebody was ready to take your place alluding to the young Jordan who after the Dennis split he decided to be sent out into a work and now he is a helper with his wife somewhere.

Don and Ange said...

You have to wonder what people are thinking. The Tiemans have seared their conscience with a hot iron. Anyone who knows the Tiemans and have read this blog also have to sear their conscience to stay in the ntcc. Anyone who knows the worthless David Jr. and sees him with custody of the a child that he is ill equipped to provide for, also must know that there is something wrong with this picture.

People in the ntcc are conditioned to accept things that they don't understand and to ignore things that are wrong. They will admonish you not to question God and the inference is that if you question them, you are somehow offending God. This is how they play you for fools. They actually think that you are stupid enough to ignore the way they treat others. They want you to think that God approves of the way they treat others and they want you to enable them by supporting them. By continuing to give them your tithe, you are saying that you support them in everything they do, no matter how wrong it may be.

So in essence, you are paying them to be contrary to God and their influence over your life keeps you from doing right. As long as you continue to ignore their acts of cruelty and pretend like everything is hunky dory they will allow you to continue to idolize them and support them with your labor and finances.

If you were to publicly confront them about their treatment of David Jr's X-family, and how Nichelle treated them, you would become another ntcc casualty. When they kick you out, they try to make you feel like it's God that got rid of you. If you read this blog and you attend the ntcc, you should confront them publicly. You should ask them, "How is it right for Nichelle to encourage her daughter in law to give plasma to support her husband who wouldn't work and is worse than an infidel according to the bible that they claim to believe"? That would endear them to you. Would Jesus approve of this? Is this the way God treats people? You don't need these phony, lying, money grubbing hypocrites in your life. The Tiemans and many others in the ntcc are actually standing in the way of your relationship with God. The best thing you could possibly do to enhance your walk with God is to stop enabling Ahab and Jezebel. Don't let them steal your vineyard. Don't let them around your families and children. Don't allow Jezebel, or Nichelle to teach your children in Children's church.

Don and Ange said...

There is more to this story, and we are committed to keeping you updated on the details. We would love for you to think about what is actually going on in your ntcc. At the bottom of this blog post we have added some pictures of David Tieman Jr, and his new bride/X-wife, (the one he dumped and divorced years ago and recently remarried). Why would any of you stay in a group that is this corrupt? We also inserted a picture of a woman that David Jr. was trying to hook up with while he was going through his second divorce. Confusing? Well one must ask, "Who is the author of confusion"? This story is not going away any time soon. We will keep you posted as we receive updates.

Anonymous said...

Tieman's son is not "worthless." Jesus died on the cross for him, giving him worth. But he does meet the biblical definition of "worse than an infidel"

{1Ti 5:8 KJV}
But if any provide not for his own, and specially for those of his own house, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an infidel.

The question is, why? Why doesn't he provide? Is he truly disabled, as his 100% disability from the military indicates? There are descriptions of him appearing to have no physical disability. So what, then? Is he mentally so disturbed that he receives 100% disability from the military? Is so, why would he have license as a minister? That seems irresponsible. And if so, why would anyone manipulate him to marry so soon after a divorce? That seems reckless. What kind of a group encourages this madness? The NTCC. What kind of a person pushes their son and manipulates him to do such things? Nichelle Tieman.

The descriptions of Nichelle's behavior are accurate. Controlling. Manipulative. Demanding. Demeaning. Pious, in the negative sense. In NTCC it is called "superspiritual". Snobbish. Haughty. Overbearing. These all describe her actions. Will she repent? God knows.

Does a wife's behavior affect what office a man holds in a church? Yes, David Tieman, Sr., by allowing it, is disqualified, according to the bible:

{1Ti 3:5 KJV}
(For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

It seems the NTCC has really dropped the ball by placing Tieman as an Overseer. It is truly shameful and indicative of the organization's "mess up and move up" agenda. The more screwed up someone is - a whoremonger like P. Kinson, effeminate like J.R. Ashmore, brutish like M. C. Kekel, demanding like E. F. Gesang and so on - the more likely that individual is to find a place of power within the NTCC. Is this truly the model of the church found in the bible? No way.

If NTCC does not meet the bible model of a church, what is it? It is just a group, and a very controlling group at that. There is no need to follow them or be part of such a group. There is no need to fear them or think they have any power over your salvation. People should free themselves from this bondage and seek a normal environment or church where they can praise God and help others.

Anonymous said...

WOW - This is definitely confusion and is a serious account of how NTCC manipulates marriages, divides families and is harmful to relationships. What kind of grown man still lets his mom pick out a wife for him and what kind of woman would want to deal with a mother-in-law that grills her to see if she is "fit" to marry her son and then won't stop in her critical and sinful ways if they do get married. It would be great if Julia could ever put any communications like email or texts or other items that would show how Nichelle is a master manipulator.

Anonymous said...

Here are some resources for those in NTCC and also those that want to identify this type of behavior -
6 Hallmarks of a Sociopath

Sociopathic Parents and Their Effect on Children

Sociopathic Narcissists Harm Their Children

The Psychopathic Mother

Anonymous said...

Pious, in the negative sense. In NTCC it is called "superspiritual".

Sanctimonious.

Anonymous said...

NTCC pastors and board members are beyond pious, they believe that they are God's spokesman to their city and for this generation. When you challenge their opinions with scripture or plain logic, they instantly become offended and want to tell you how rebellious you are against God. They use Bible phrases like "the sin of witchcraft" or "as for me and my house" and "give an account for your soul" so that you don't question their authority and give "double honor" to the position they say God placed them in over you.

They are really just deluded attention seekers and man-pleasers that want to gather people to themselves and lord over them by their own interpretation of the Bible. The wives of these so-called leaders are even worse because while their husbands will threaten from the pulpit, they are more secretive and will spread their poison throughout the congregation. They will let the women know that they should be looked at as an example of womanhood, but nothing they own is good enough, they are not smart enough and are not capable of making decisions on their own. She becomes the authority on all domestic matters and how they should behave for their husbands. She also dictates why or why not in your relationship pursuits and will voice her opinion on their suitability. Most women in NTCC are busy-bodies, gossipers and two-faced liars and have few true friends.

Anonymous said...

I think they've moved beyond the "last great movement" garbage as they realize they don't have the leadership to push that narrative.

It's a weak organization full of manipulators who can't push people around in the same way a Davis or Dennis could. Thus they graduate 5 or 6 males per year now.

Eventually these marriages to really young girls will come under scrutiny if they already haven't. You can only control people willing to be controlled and from what I've seen that number is shrinking.

Anonymous said...

I read the davyo post on the fb about how he was featured on the San Antonio news with the wounded warrior project and I'm flabbergasted at what people get away with!
You see him really milking it with his leg injury but than he is seen in pictures doing hard work there at the church he attends.
The video is pretty weird too.

You need to put a link here so that people can go and see what I'm talking about.

Don and Ange said...

In an earlier comment someone mentioned that they seen David Jr. Dancing in church after his knee was supposedly healed by God. I think he inherted his lying from His mother.

Here You Go said...

Anonymous said,

"I read the davyo post on the fb about how he was featured on the San Antonio news with the wounded warrior project and I'm flabbergasted at what people get away with!
You see him really milking it with his leg injury but than he is seen in pictures doing hard work there at the church he attends.
The video is pretty weird too.

You need to put a link here so that people can go and see what I'm talking about."


Here You Go


http://www.facebook.com/2ntccsurvivors/posts/1123878854317271

There's also a "selfie" video by davyo @

http://www.facebook.com/2ntccsurvivors/posts/1123870847651405

In davyo's selfie video there are so many of the telltale signs or body language cues that make him look like he is lying, according to the video about how to spot when someone is lying, found at

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inCrfLE6jFw

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said:

"Tieman's son is not "worthless." Jesus died on the cross for him, giving him worth. But he does meet the biblical definition of "worse than an infidel"

DNA said:

Fair enough. That was probably not a good choice of words. I do consider David Jr. pretty close to worthless as a husband, father and Christian, but who am I to label him such? I have a tendency to be very critical with abusers in the ntcc. I was deprived of a wife for quite a few years and when cult members mistreat their wives it is very disturbing to me. When cult leaders treat their immediate family members the way that the Tiemans treated their daughter in law, it needs to be discussed and they need to be exposed. Calling Dave Jr worthless can be construed as a personal attack and I'd rather not allow it to get too personal. It really doesn't serve our objectives and goals well. Now, we do call ntcc'rs Hucksters, con-artists, swindlers and such, but those are terms that accurately describe them. Worthless is more of an opinion than an accurate description. So there you have it.

We've known about this divorce for over a year, but it was in the courts and we agreed not to blog about it until we were given the green light. The court battle lasted longer than it should have and it didn't go the way that it should have. Contrary to popular belief, you can buy a verdict and a sentence. You can get someone off the hook, if you have the resources. It happens all the time. What is alarming is that this type of behavior continues as a pattern in the ntcc. Even though they have compromised their standards and "allowed" people more freedoms, they still are abusive and they still destroy families. They really haven't changed on the inside. They might wear their skirts a little tighter, and smear a little lip gloss on, and use a little wrinkle cream and foundation to hide their aging faces, but they still are just as bad as they always were on the inside. The ntcc women are just as bad as the men in many cases. The longer they stay in the ntcc and the more they conform, the more they reject the gospel that they claim to live by. You can't love God and treat God's people like caged animals.

Don and Ange said...

Tieman Nichelle ‏@NTieman 6 Sep 2015
Our little slugger turned 30 today! Our lives are blessed because of Him! Happy Birthday Buddy! Keep Swinging!

This was tweeted by Nichelle back when David had just dumped his wife and was searching for a replacement. Not sure if the 3 strike rule applies to ntcc husbands. If David Jr. ruins this marriage would it be considered a strike out or a foul ball, or perhaps just another error? Notice she calls him Buddy. Perhaps this is the same "Buddy" that leaves the ignorant comments on our blog. He seems to fit the bill.

Maurice said...

Be it personal or not, Jesus had a few choice words for the Pharisee and what he thought of them. Since its inception ntcc, probably and continually have had to cover up for the sins and crimes of its leaders. If some of us had known of the corruption, and just how corrupt, ntcc really was years ago we probably would not be having this conversation. Ntcc use to preach " YOUR SINS WILL SURELY FIND YOU OUT" well, it may have taken years but there past sins is pointing them out. Boy, Boy, Boy, they sure kept the wool pulled over our eyes. We once thought, that they was God fearing, Holy Ghost filled, uncompromising men and women of God who only wanted to see us born again with Jesus as our personal Lord and savior.

Vic Johanson said...

There's apparently no limit to the disgusting behavior of the NTCC "leadership." About the time it seems like you've heard it all, another atrocity surfaces. I'm glad I was spared knowing these cretins while I was still trapped in the org, but I met plenty of others. Being a lowlife abuser and deceiver is a sure ticket to advancement in that corrupt system.

Life gets a little better every day that passes without them, and that seems to be the universal testimony among those who escape. Give it a shot! You can always return like a dog to his vomit if liberty doesn't suit you.

Anonymous said...

This may sound far fetched but I was attending church around the time that davyo came to finish his schooling there in the bible school because he had been kicked out by rw for whatever reason.
But there he was again and out of the blue this amy girl started attending the graham church and I recall that she had just moved from somewhere in Portland or whatever city it was.
I recall this because I even asked her if she was new around there and she said no that she had just moved back to the area and was looking for a job. Who knows maybe this amy girl was summoned to come back.
It's kind of weird that amy gets there just at the right time when davyo and his now ex are back to finish bible school.
Just saying.....

Don and Ange said...

"While I was away his parents treated my oldest two children like garbage. She had my oldest scrub the inside of the toilet with a paper towel and her bare hands, my ex had been ill and it was nasty, she was so sickened by this."

DNA said:

I did an image search for a picture of someone scrubbing out a filthy toilet with their bare hands and a rag to put on our ntcc Facebook page, but even a Google image search could not bring up something that disgusting. All I could find was people cleaning out toilets with rubber gloves and they didn't show anything as gross as what was described in this blog post. Why would I want to put something that gross on a public page? People need to know how disgusting and wicked Nichelle Tieman is. The way she treated those girls was below the standards of Human decency. What kind of Man is David Jr. to let his controlling mother force his wife's children to clean up his toilet mess like that? Think about how wicked this is.

Thank God she got those two girls out of the ntcc. They are getting to that age where the perverted leadership would start to consider matching them up with an older brain washed seminary graduate. It is very common in the ntcc for the girs to be married off at a very young age. It's one of the ways that they keep young girls trapped in the ntcc. They are raised with little education, no skills, and very little ties to the outside world. Once they are married to an ntcc abuser, it's really hard to break away.

We hate what the ntcc does to good people. I know that there are quite a few people who think that all of this is personal because of what we went through with the Tiemans, and I can't lie and tell you that there are no hard feelings. We had 20 years of our life stolen from us, so we do have a unique perspective on all of this. We've seen the pattern of abuse up close and personal. But this blog post by itself is heart rending and revealing of the nature of the ntcc and the Tiemans who are allowed to hold the office of Central Overseers. There is nobody on the ntcc General Board who will stand up for young girls in this story who have been abused. The ntcc is a cult and all of the pastors and leaders in the ntcc are brainwashed. They allow this stuff to happen and ignore it.


Don and Ange said...

Jesus Told Nicodemus: "For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." John 3:17

Did you ever get the impression in the ntcc that they were trying to condemn you? I did. Everything centered around condemnation. There was a very big list of forbidden fruit and the threat of judgement attached to it. The Pharisees were another bunch that made it hard for people to enter the kingdom of God. Did you ever notice how the groups that are considered the strictest make it difficult for others but don't apply the same standards to themselves? They bind heavy burdens, grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders, but they will not move them with one of their fingers. (Mat 23:4) And so it is in the ntcc and other controlling cults.

Nichelle Tieman worked hard to condemn her daughter in law. Nichelle's purpose was not to nurture and love. Her purpose was to condemn. How many times did Nichelle give plasma? Could the Tiemans who drove around in a million dollar RV, collected offerings in every town and lived in a mansion have been able to afford to give the mother of their grandchild $50 bucks instead of encouraging her to sell plasma and put herself at risk with the dangers associated with giving plasma? The ntcc leaders have their own interests in mind, not the interests of the common church folk. They use condemnation and fear to keep people down and in a place where they can be controlled.

The woman who wrote this story is now successfully working a job and supporting her family. She is accomplishing more than 10 ntcc women combined. Ntcc women are held back and not allowed to help support their families. David Jr. should have been able to support his family on 100% disability, because that was his military salary without taxes. But David Jr. burned through money. He kept the finances a secret because had a lot to hide. He was a lot like those Pharisees. He placed the burden on his wife and she used up all the resources of her family to support David Jr, who in turn squandered every dime that she got from her family. They wouldn't let her get a job to contribute to raising her family. That's where the condemnation comes in. If you are a woman and you want to work they condemn you and they have no scripture to back this up. It would have been so practical and beneficial to a mother of 3 children to be able to work and help support her children, especially since David Jr. wouldn't man up and provide for his family. When she finally got to the point where she decided to do what her husband wouldn't do, Nichelle and David Jr. used that as an occasion to steal her daughter from her. This is just pure evil. Can anyone picture Jesus doing what the Tiemans have done? She was not allowed to work. She had to go home to make some money to support her family, while her worse than an infidel husband got a restraining order against her and stole her child. All this was sanctioned by the Tiemans and the ntcc leadership. This is your ntcc and if you hang out with horse thieves long enough, you will become a horse thief.

Don and Ange said...

We published a small photo album on our Facebook page of the wounded warrior hard at work. You don't have to be a Facebook user to see the pictures. Click here to view pics.

I know that some sympathizers will think that we are just bitter and trying to get revenge. To be honest, I doubt that the Tiemans will lose much sleep over this unless it affects their bottom line. If they have to start answering questions about all this and people start leaving because of it, the ntcc apple cart will be upset. My guess is that nobody will be phased by any of this, because they all have their brains in the walking dead mode. People have been blogging for years and it doesn't seem to phase the ntcc zombies. A picture does paint a thousand words and we hope that folks will see the corruption. I guess if one person has that "Ah Ha" moment and actually allows their brain to engage on this subject than it's worth it. This blog post isn't going away any time soon. This story needs to be seen by ntcc'rs and potential future ntcc'rs who google the ntcc or the Tiemans to find out what they are all about. They are bold enough to publish these photos on their public social media accounts and then treat other human beings like the scum of the earth, so we are here to expose them. They need to be exposed.

Anonymous said...

I don't know the infidel, but maybe he has a disability that waxes and wanes. If you suspect a vet of milking the system this link should be helpful: http://www.disabilityhappens.com/how-where-to-report-va-abuse-and-fraud/

Anonymous said...

He looks significantly older than 30. What is it about the org. that ages people. (especially the women)

Anonymous said...

Is that his wife or Daughter? Either way that pic is nauseating! They need to clean up their P.R. Department because they look like a cult. Underage looking wives... Under age weddings... Give me a break all you apologists out there should drop the idea that you're being persecuted because in all reality your leaders should be PROSECTUED!

Mike

Anonymous said...

WOW - How in the world can he claim 100% disability when obviously he is doing stuff that would be hard on your back, arms, knees, etc. ? Didn't he also have something with PTSD or is that not included in the disability? That dude needs to be reported to the Inspector General - Here or Here

As you guys pointed out that video of him talking about the revival, there were several cues that he had that you could tell he was lying. He also has the Org rhetoric that you can see through that this is one brainwashed mama's boy. As has been mentioned before, Nichelle Tieman is a narcissist and is about as nasty as they come. Here is some characteristics that match her EXACTLY - Characteristics of Narcissistic Mothers

Don and Ange said...

Ha Ha Ha - The Evangelism Linebacker aka Soulwinning NTCC Style - "Sometimes I blow you up; but it's because I love you, Baby!"

Soulwinning NTCC Style - Evangelism Linebacker

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said:

"Nichelle Tieman is a narcissist and is about as nasty as they come."

DNA said:

When Nichelle was a lot younger she manipulated my world. Nichelle was not satisfied with her husband and I was not cut out to be a celibate. There were times in the Servicemen's home that her husband would be in his room "studying for a message" and Nichelle would be alone with me. I was a 25 year old virgin and had been deprived of several relationships. One night while Tieman Sr. was in his room and I was sitting in a recliner in front of the fireplace in the livingroom, Nichelle sat on the floor right next to the recliner with her body touching my legs. She asked me to feel how soft her hair was and I did. I felt her hair and then my hand ended up inside her blouse. This happened several times and we both touched each other in private areas. I'm not trying to gross anyone out, but this happened about 26 years ago in the Servicemen's home. This foreplay was leading up to full blown adultery and in biblical terms it was adultery already. But before it reached that stage, I was convicted in my heart. This conviction was greater than the desire to continue the adulterous relationship.

One morning when I came to the home after 24 hour duty, I went to sleep in my room in the Servicemen's home. Tieman Sr. was at work or gone doing whatever and Nichelle woke me up by knocking on my door. She told me she had a bad dream and asked if she could come in and lay with me in my bed. Thankfully I said no and I would not let her in. I started rejecting her advances and repairing my relationship with God.

This brought down the wrath of Nichelle into my life. She began to humiliate me in public by talking down to me and belittling me any time she had an opportunity. My mother had cancer at the time and Nichelle would often point out that she was not right with God because she would not get on board 100% with ntcc style holiness. This coming from a narcissistic woman with an adulterous heart.

Nichelle had also matchmade me with a 17 year old girl that was not my type but in desperation I asked this girl to marry me and we were engaged. Then I met Angela. We really connected on so many levels. We worked together and she was very interested in me and I in her. She started coming faithfully to church and I loved her. I terminated the match made relationship with the 17 year old and started pursuing a relationship with Ange. We actually talked about marriage and things were moving in that direction. Nichelle did not want this to happen so she convinced Ange that she was called to go to bible school and I was not. Ange ended up going to bible school and I ended up broken hearted.

Shortly after this, my mother passed away and when I got the news, I told Nichelle and Tieman Sr that my mom went home to be with the Lord. Nichelle said, "I hate it when people pretend that their loved ones are in heaven, when they really are not". This whole experience broke me and it was all down hill from there. I was at the height of my Christian life and bringing car loads of people to church. I was the ultimate ntcc'r in giving and winning souls, but I was also naive and gullible and a perfect candidate for cult abuse.

Yes, Nichelle is as nasty as they come.

Don and Ange said...

Nichelle and the Million Dollar Recreational Vehicle outfitted with snacks and staples purchase with Foodstamp tithe

Don and Ange said...

To the person who comment as D&A,

Thanks for your comment. We get what you are saying. But we aren't advocating for that here; so we didn't publish that comment. What Nichelle did was wrong. Also, the "Name/URL" line is normally where you put your name, not ours? So, we weren't sure if you just happen to be D&A too, like Davyo and Amy or some such combo. Also, the ampersand symbol "&" doesn't do well in the comment line. It translates into other characters instead of being just the and "&" symbol. We learned that the hard way when we started blogging eons ago. Cheers.

Anonymous said...

Sorry!!! I was incensed at your recollection and got caught up in my emotions while typing and copying on my phone. You are a bigger person than I am.


sincerely,

Three Molars and a Crown

Don and Ange said...

LOL. It's all good, Three Molars and a Crown. That's hilarious. And we didn't mean to crack down too hard on you either. We're just trying to point out some tips for this maze called blogging. As you can see, we made a typo from our desktop computer; that's just normal stuff that's gonna happen, no matter how careful you are or how many times you check your work. And believe us when we say, we get it when it comes to emotional responses like being incensed. What Nichelle did, well, it floored me the first time I heard Don tell that part of his story. So. Onward and upward. Thanks again for the comments.

Don and Ange said...

In a way, we are glad you expressed your raw emotion. It is your way of showing support. And that's cool. But in the blogosphere, things can get messy really quickly. We have to moderate so that we keep our audience. So we get it. We understand. And thanks.

=D

Anonymous said...

Interesting how R'dub cracked on the adultery rule. So many ministers and wives were caught chasing skirts and wingtips!

3MC

Don and Ange said...

davis was such a liar. He would say one thing from the pulpit, but do the opposite thing ALL THE TIME. He used to boast that he wouldn't have a sinner on his platform, yet he had michael fontenot, the guy who raped his own daughter, leading song in services, making the announcements, singing in the bible school quartet and running the NTCC print shop. What a tool.

Bart said...

Blog Moderators here,

We are carrying forward this comment that Bart made on an old blog post titled "NTCC Sucks The Life Out Of Christians" This comment really shows exactly what we were talking about in that post and on this blog in general; so we wanted everyone to see it. If you click on the date at the bottom of his comment (August 29), it should take you to the original page it was published on:


Bart said...

I was a member of ntcc around 2000 2001. A year before going to ntcc I was spiritually changed for the better I was spiritually aware and happy full of God's life and Joy. When I first got to Okinawa I met a gunnery sergeant that brought me to his church called God's way. It was a Spirit-filled church a good church. Until one day I was approached by someone from ntcc and decided to try it out I went back and forth for a couple of weeks until I got hooked. I felt trapped in my spirit I felt it was wrong but I kept going. It took about a year before I just cannot give any more and I was exhausted Beyond belief. It has been 15 years and I'm still I'm hesitant to find a church. I don't have the drive and the passion I once had to know God and the Bible like I wanted to before I went to ntcc. I remember trying to have a heart-to-heart with Pastor Medrano and he had no heart he had no expression of compassion there was nothing there. I had compassion for him because I felt he was trapped for life and felt bad for his wife who looked downtrodden. All I can say sometimes I think about it and knowing I've been through this hopefully will make me a stronger person someday. And brother Borden if you're still out there I still think about you once in awhile wonder how you're doing. Thanks, Barry Willoughby

Monday, August 29, 2016 3:41:00 PM

Anonymous said...

This is an Org that relies on it's flock not pulling back the curtain or daring to pull it back. This is why they've changed so much as they can't control the amount of people pulling it back. If they don't change they'll be left with looking at a hillbilly, his stuck up wife and privileged son who never had to follow the rules.

Mike said...

The only thing I can figure is Nichelle has a Lewinsky Dress with Kekel's DNA on it... How else could this jezebel advance with such a wimp for a hubby and worthless lame *hoo-hah* for a son.

Mike

*word* edited by DNA

Anonymous said...

I am relieved to know I am not alone in having trouble with the Tiemans yet I hate that anyone suffered grief from that wicked woman as well. How she treats other people's children if she doesn't like their parents is horrible. Until this day my children think pastor's wives are evil people because every one we had in New Testament Christian Church were cruel to them. My disabled son has more love than any of them ever did.

Don and Ange said...

Many of the ntcc pastors and their wives are not good people. They get too involved in the personal lives of their members. The Tiemans are the worse of the worst. They premeditate their interference in the lives of church members who are trying to live for God. If you are a spouse that is not in good favor with your local pastor, you can count on them plotting to turn your wife or husband against you and if you have kids you better believe that they wont hesitate to get a restraining order against you. They will set you up to get some kind of court order against you that prevents you from getting custody of your own children. You have to make the first move. You need to visit child protective services and tell them that the ntcc is a dangerous cult. If you are a woman don't forget to tell them that you are not allowed to have a job and support your family.
You have to be proactive and beat them to the punch.

Anonymous said...

Potiphar's wife

Anonymous said...

So is this lady respected/revered in this church? I have trouble believing she has this much sway? I know they have a title but it's not like they're the Ashmores or Davis or even Kekel (and that's a reach when referring to respected).

How can this lady interfere unless she's allowed to?

Anonymous said...

I can remember 'chelle always trying to manipulate people by acting like she was interested in them, she would be all sweet and tell people how beautiful, smart, or good you were just to get people to like her.
Of course people like that and fall for the attention that she would give them and then once she got their confidence she would start to get into their lives and start controlling them.
If you would not play her games it would be all war against you and she would start berating you or try to make herself the victim.
She would spread gossip about you or your family so that people didn't want to have anything to do with you.


Anon 2 said...

"Of course people like that and fall for the attention that she would give them and then once she got their confidence she would start to get into their lives and start controlling them.
If you would not play her games it would be all war against you and she would start berating you or try to make herself the victim.
She would spread gossip about you or your family so that people didn't want to have anything to do with you."

Anon 2

Anonymous, all of what you said is so true. I had a situation where she was complaining it wasn't fair I had girls so I had help to clean my house. She asked one of my daughters to come over to clean her house. I said, "no". I went from her calling me a good mom to I was the worse mother in the world that should loose her children. She spread things around to the point I lost all my babysitting jobs, I couldn't teach the children at church, and no one would let me near their children. I was so miserable and hated church. We in time moved but this followed me. It began to effect my health. The doctors told my husband that I need to volunteer or have something to do outside of sitting at home. My husband was so concerned about me allowed me to go against what we were told and I began to volunteer and hang out with a knitting group. I started doing better eating and putting on weight. I had become skin and bones with the stress of what the Tiemens put me through. When NTCC threaten to take away my husband's license if I didn't leave what I was doing, my husband fearing that my health issues would returned convinced me to leave. The problems we were having with my oldest daughter completely left and she is very involved helping the community now loving to help the homeless and elderly the most.
I believe if we had stayed with the Tiemens we would have lost our children because this woman is so wicked in her ways.

Anonymous said...

They were up in arms over a knitting group?

Many children have been destroyed by ntcc preachers

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said:

So is this lady respected/revered in this church? I have trouble believing she has this much sway?

DNA said:

She is a narcissist and that is what narcissists do. If you have trouble believing this than don't. I know what we've shared is true and we have no reason to believe that Tieman's daughter in law is lying. We know she went through the court battle. This is public record. The problem in the ntcc is that there are many people who are more willing to accept the behavior of the ntcc leadership and to go along with the abuse. It's a cult. Cults are built on the backs of people that are willing to obey their cult leaders. We were cult members and we witnessed the Tieman's abuse up close and personal. People in the ntcc think they are obeying God, but in actuality, they are following misguided, double standard hypocrites.

Anonymous said:

I know they have a title but it's not like they're the Ashmores or Davis or even Kekel (and that's a reach when referring to respected).

DNA said:

Ashmore and Davis are gone. Tieman is the Assistant General Overseer. Do people respect them? Yes, in a misguided way they do respect them.

Anonymous said:

"How can this lady interfere unless she's allowed to?"

DNA said:

This question seems to place the blame on the cult members while ignoring the abuse of the cult leaders. That's like saying "How could Hitler have killed millions of Jews unless he was allowed to". It's called brain washing. How could all the people who killed themselves under Jim Jones have allowed Jim Jones to influence them? How could all the people who followed David Koresh allowed him to influence them? How could all of the victims of Warren Jeffs have allowed him to rape, molest and violate dozens of young girls? The answer is that people in cults think that they are part of the last move of God on earth. Now you can blame the people and give the cult leaders a pass. Once people are convinced that they are following God, it's almost impossible to convince them otherwise or pry them out of their cult. Is it their fault? I look back on my involvement in the ntcc and I could blame myself if I wanted to. I know that's what the ntcc would love for me to do, because than I wouldn't be blogging and people in the ntcc wouldn't be reading about how hypocritical people like the Tiemans are. Cults are successful because they use fear to keep people silent. Ignorance is bliss. This blog is not about blaming the people who have fallen into the ntcc's trap. We are more interested in who is responsible for the greater evil and that is the ntcc cult leaders who devised this untoward organization.

Should we take any responsibility? We have. We've had to live with our decision to be involved in this cult and the consequences. But ignoring the source of our misery isn't going to stop it from happening or prevent people from falling into the same trap. The blogs raise awareness and warn folks what the ntcc is all about. Nichelle Tieman is no different than Jezebel. When you are a woman in a position of power and nobody reigns you in, you can wreak all sorts of havoc on your subjects. And you can say that Jezebel's victims allowed themselves to be victims by crossing the wicked wench, but the greater evil can be placed squarely on Jezebel herself and her enabling husband, David Tieman, oops, I meant to say Ahab.

Don and Ange said...

I have a dear friend that used to be in the ntcc who recently got involved in another cult called 119 ministries which is part of the Hebrew Roots Movement. This guy left the ntcc back in the 80's and only experienced a couple years of cult abuse. He was part of the Rudy fiasco. Rudy was the former dean of the ntcc dayschool who was caught cross dressing by Davis and later allowed to have unsupervised access to children in the highest position of authority over ntcc children. Rudy went on to be a Servicemen's home director and used the servicemen's home for his personal playground, where he committed acts of homosexuality.

So this friend of mine is now in a cult where they control his diet. He calls himself a Torah follower and lives by the law of Moses keeping those Old Testament sacraments that his cult finds convenient to keep and discarding the Old Testament laws that they don't want to keep. The emphasis of this cult is not on Jesus, but on grafting themselves into Jewish traditions. They keep the Old Testament feasts and reject all "pagan" holiday traditions.

I did everything I could to warn this guy that he was in a cult. I shared scriptures that directly refuted his doctrine and for that I was unfriended on his Facebook page and ridiculed by his circle of cult friends. He's read our blog before and he knows what we believe about the ntcc. He's said that the ntcc wasn't all bad, which really means that he would rather take the blame for the two years he wasted in the ntcc than to address the issues that caused so many people to waste years of their lives in a destructive cult. After leaving the ntcc he spent decades in a Pentecostal Holiness church which is basically another cult and he served as a youth leader and active member.

The only way this guy will ever find his way out of his new cult is if they push him beyond his limits and humiliate him publicly. That's basically how people in the ntcc get their eyes opened. They have to cross a boundary and when they do they get openly rebuked for it.

After my friend unfriended me, I sent him one last message explaining to him that I really was trying to help him, and that I have no ill will towards him. I thought it would be worth the risk to put 100% of my efforts into warning him about this new cult that he joined, but it's almost impossible to pry someone out of a cult.

We blog in hope that people who are being pushed beyond what they are able to bare will find their way out. We also blog for the folks who are considering joining a cult. When they google the ntcc there is a good chance they will find this blog, or Chiefs blog and if they read enough, they will dodge the bullet.

Don and Ange said...

A little bird told us that Lorrie Di Francesco is not going to church at the ntcc very much if at all. Di Francesco's wife is Helen Duran/Ashmore's daughter from a previous marriage, before Helen was married to James Ashmore. It is our understanding that Lorrie is still with her husband but no longer attends the ntcc. It was also shared with us that Lorrie Di Francesco now wears pants. I guess that John R. Di Francesco should step down from his Executive Board position with the ntcc because it's obvious that he doesn't have control of his own family. If he can't rule his own family, he shouldn't be telling you or your wives what to wear, especially if his own wife isn't following the ntcc man made rules.

In other news we have also heard from someone that participates in Ashmore's private Facebook page called James Ashmore's Commentary. It was reported over there that a husband and wife from Ron Denis's church were planning to leave the church and began to sneak some of their stuff out of their house and into storage. Someone from Denis's church caught wind of this couple trying to leave. Apparently someone from the church tried to stop them and somehow got into their house. The woman and her son hid themselves in a bedroom and had to call the police. The police came and got them out. What kind of church threatens you to a level of danger where you have to call the police to get you out of your own home safely?

Another post on Ashmore's Facebook page said that Kekel and Olson were preaching against their cult members going out to eat at public restaurants; they must be desperate for money. Meanwhile we know perfectly well that Kekel and Olson will go out to eat wherever and whenever they feel like it. At the end of one service Kekel told everyone to come up to the front of the church and pray, or they could leave. He then had the ushers make sure that everyone left their seats and went up front for forced prayer. Could you see Jesus doing that? Kekel has got to be out of his cult leader mind!

Our source for all of this is reliable, but we are not going to out them, least they get kicked off of Ashmore's page. Unfortunately, Ashmore's page is private, but if any of you would like to friend him on Facebook, you can read it for yourselves. Just sign into Facebook and search James Ashmore's Commentary and send him a friend request.

Don and Ange said...

It seem's like Lorrie Di Francesco's lack of adherence to ntcc rules and departure from being the example expected from Board member's wives put's John Di Francesco in quite a pickle. I mean you would think the dude would back his wife's play who obviously wanted to follow her mom and step dad out of the organization. Who is left in the ntcc that is worth following? Kekel? Olson? Tieman? The problem is that John Di Francesco knows where all the bodies are buried, in fact, he probably buried many of them himself.

It appears that the ntcc leadership structure is in a state of disarray. Olson is boring and Kekel is not well liked. The Tiemans are buried in scandal. On top of this, there is a lot of compromise in the ntcc and many of the ministers are doing their own thing. We know of two other high level long time minister's whose wives don't follow the rules. One bible school teacher's wife doesn't go to church and another one's wife takes off on vacations to see relatives for months at a time. Every time there is a scandal the ntcc leadership tells it's members, "Move along, there's nothing to see here". What a mess.

Anonymous said...

It sounds like NTCC is coming a part at the sems. I had also heard that about Lori Fi Francesco's wife from someone I know that still is in and this person is at Graham. My friend wants to leave but fears loosing her marriage. My friend said that Di Francesco's wife doesn't like some of Kekel and his wife's ways and is tired of how her child is treated by the leaders.

Anonymous said...

It is insane the double standards. My sister who married a minister in that group is going to that school they have in Graham. One of her children from her former marriage was sick for a week so she missed classes, I guess their services, and this thing they call soulwinning not sure what that is. Her Pastor Kekel got angry at her yelling saying that was no reason to miss all this stuff that is what medicine is for, that she was just lazy, looking for an excuse to not come, and that she has made her child more important than God. I want to just wake her up and know this isn't the way God is with people. I told her she did good taking care of her child.

Anonymous said...

Ask Kekel how many services his son missed.

Anonymous said...

Or better yet, ask Kekel how many services his wife missed because of his son. If we want to compare apples to apples. I know tmk missed many church "activities" because of her child.

Anonymous said...

Oh and how many times has his wife been soul winning

Anonymous said...

"Her Pastor Kekel got angry at her yelling saying that was no reason to miss all this stuff that is what medicine is for, that she was just lazy"

Husbands don't let that puke talk to your wife like that!

Don and Ange said...

The ntcc seems to be in a state of decay. All of the manipulative standards that used to be ultimatums, have been compromised and most of this compromise began at the very top of the ntcc food chain. The ntcc was built on man worship, (Davis worship). Now that Davis is gone the whole thing seems to be falling apart. The rules that Davis preached are mostly gone. Davis didn't set up the strict standards because they were of God. Davis set up the strict standards so that he could control people. When Kekel started to break those rules it made Davis look like a fool. When Denis left, he pointed out the double standards that existed within the ntcc. Denis had Tony Oloans wear a wire and ask Phil Kinson if TV and/or DVDs were a sin. Davis did not allow ministers to have TV's, but Kinson was caught on tape saying that DVDs were allowed. Kekel also has allowed Grant to watch DVDs and allowed "Gaming Monitors". Davis didn't make a big stink about all of this compromise that he once preached against. Denis knew that Davis' model of strict rules and ultimatums of hell coming from the pulpit were what made Davis rich. Denis embezzled money and property from as many of the churches and ntcc pastors who would follow him and left the ntcc. What was Davis going to do? He was a crook himself. He couldn't turn Denis over to the authorities because Davis was guilty of the very same things that Denis was guilty of.

So Davis "retired" after the Denis split and since then there has been a slow and steady decay as ministers and members leave egypt to find their own promise land. While Davis was still worshiped and revered by the ntcc old timers, his standards were becoming obsolete and as the standards were compromised, Davis became less significant to the compromisers. Davis was no dummy. His system only worked through manipulation and fear. The only person in the ntcc who could achieve the same level of manipulation and fear effectively was J.R. Ashmore. Kekel was a manipulator but he could not be taken seriously by most of the ntcc'rs because he and Tanya were the number one compromisers of Davis' standards. The reason Davis never interfered with the moral decay of the ntcc while he was still alive is that Davis was a double standard hypocrite. He wasn't in it for God or the souls. Davis was in it for the money. Davis died a rich man.

Before the grass had a chance to grow on Davis' grave Ashmore realized that he no longer had a place of importance in the ntcc. Ashmore would have loved to have the same worship and adoration that Davis had, but Davis left the keys to his kingdom in his bolo son in law's hands. Davis gave Kekel enough rope to hang himself and Kekel is doing his best to run the ntcc into the ground.

Don and Ange said...

So where does all of this leave the ntcc? Now that Davis and Ashmore are gone, the weak cult leadership of the ntcc seems to be falling apart. Kekel is doing really stupid things like making strict rules like no eating out and commanding folks to pray at the altar or leave the church. This isn't working for Kekel because he's already proven that he is a double standard hypocrite. Kekel has changed the rules too many times to be taken seriously. The blogging community has exposed the ntcc tithe heresy and people are waking up. The only way for the ntcc to survive the corruption and compromise is for the organization to adapt to the new changes. They have to become hypocrites to exist with the hypocritical leadership.

This hypocrisy has created a rift in the ntcc leadership and now they can no longer hide their corruption. Kekel is a con artist, living lavishly in luxury right in front of all of his oppressed cult members. Olson is a boring extension of the enabler that he was to Davis, but now he enables Kekel. To usher in the new standards of Kekel, Olson has had to bury Davis doctrine in the manure of compromise. Now the ntcc has their hypocritical butts hanging in the wind for everyone to see. They try to keep things secret to minimize the damage but when it goes public, people not only see the hypocrisy but they see the cover up.

So this is what is left of the ntcc. You have the compromising Kekels who exist to oppress people and get rich off their tithe. You have Olson the enabler, who encouraged his daughter to leave her husband, child in hand, over a swimming lesson. You have the Tiemans who encouraged their son to divorce his wife and take custody of their child driving around in a million dollar RV, attending professional sporting events and making merchandise of the people of God. You have Di Francesco, whose wife no longer attends the ntcc on a regular basis and wears pants, running the financial affairs and probably hiding so many of his own skeletons in a closet that is about to burst open along with all the ntcc skeletons that he's been hiding for years. Then you have Johnson who basically has a permanent smile affixed to his face while he does nothing to change anything. Johnson's son in law, Philandering Phil Kinson, has plenty of blood on his hands because his cover up of his visit to a whorehouse is more important than the lives of the Moreno family of 4 who died in what was reported as a double murder suicide because the media doesn't count the unborn child in the pregnant mother's womb as a life which would really make it a triple murder suicide. Then you have Jones who has always been and always will be nothing more than the token black representative of the ntcc executive board. You also have Gesang who beat his child so hard that he had welts up and down his legs who was reported to the ntcc general board by his wife who was run off for not turning a blind eye. But don't worry about a wife. If you are an ntcc wife, and you don't accept the abuse, the footsteps of your replacement can be heard shuffling into the bridal college. Then you have Jordan who works for Gesang who doesn't seem to have any godly influence over his family. Then you have other Bible school teachers and ministers that are being warehoused in Graham, riding a pew, and shouting Amen. Is the ntcc a bastion of holiness and righteousness?

Unknown said...

Whats the no eating out thing? Is that a bible school rule?

Eric

Don and Ange said...

Eric said:

"Whats the no eating out thing? Is that a bible school rule?"

DNA said:

That's the latest from the grapevine. It's a Graham rule and from what I understand, the Graham church and the bible school are one in the same. I'm sure they pound on a lot of doors and drag people out to services, but it's doubtful that there are many ordinary church members that haven't been through the brain washing academy who faithfully attend with the Graham brainwashees. Graham is a cult compound and the rules in Graham are as controlling and manipulative as you will find anywhere in the ntcc. Not sure how many ordinary members who have never been through the bible school attend on a regular basis in Graham, but who would want to subject themselves to those kind of teachings on a regular basis?

We figure that Kekel is desperate for money. Perhaps he's wanting to add to his automotive collection or wanting to add some new improvements to his mansion. The graduating classes seem to be diminishing in numbers. One way to bring in more money is to keep cult members from spending what little money they have on themselves. Imagine if you can keep 100 to 300 people from eating out for a whole month, and convince those same suckers to give in a "special offering", how much money you could bring in to the ntcc slush fund. Consider that it costs an average of $10 per head to eat out and if they eat out once a week, that's $4000 to $12,000 per months of extra money they can give to Kekel. There are no records of Davis or Kekel ever paying tithe and even if they did, they could dip into the slush fund any time they want to. It's like taking money out of your left pocket and putting it back into your right pocket. Kekel doesn't answer to anyone. Just read the bylaws. Everyone answers to Kekel, including Olson. That's the way Davis wanted it. It's a family owned business. Nothing godly about it.

Anonymous said...

Financial crumb snatchers!

unknown said...

When I was there any rule for the students applied to everyone in practical terms because they were the majority.

So the idea is give up dining out in order to give an offering? Kind of like the early church selling personal property to give to the poor saints. Except in this case, the rich.

What an absolute to take one of the few diversions these poor folks in Graham have.

As for me, we attended a family birthday party today. Hosting some more family tonight for a game night. Planning on getting a round of golf in tomorrow for labor day, will more than likely dine out somewhere.

Attended service on Saturday night since we had a busy Sunday booked. Preacher used the Acts passage I referenced above. He didnt use it in any manner to try and pry an extra buck from anyone. He asked people what it would like in their life if they were 1 degree more committed to Jesus like the 120. What would they start doing, what would they stop doing. Not looking for perfection but challanging folks to take one more step.

If your in NTCC the next step should be out of that wicked organization. Until Kekel sells all of his property and moves in to a King Oscar apartment, dont sacrifice another dime to sustain his life style.

Eric

Don and Ange said...

I agree Eric. Davis had a history of financially oppressing folks when they had extra money in their pockets. He also would tell pastors to take up more offerings when there was a need in the church. Not sure if an escrow was ever used in the ntcc for it's intended purpose, but we know that escrows would be zeroed out and the money would get sucked up into the ntcc swirling vortex. We have posted a copy of the escrow policy letter sent out by the borg, and it was supposed to be used for church repairs and needs. When MDR asked to use escrow funds to repair the leaking roof at the Ft. Hood Servicemen's home, he was told to take up an offering. There was $279,000.00 in the escrow at the time.

When Davis found out that women were spending money going to the gym in Graham, he raised the tuition and created a mandatory class for them to attend so they wouldn't have too much time or money on their hands. The videos below show the type of operation that Davis would run if he were around in the Old West. Rated PG-13 for violence and abusive language which should make most ntcc'rs feel right at home.

video 1 click here

video 2 click here

Kekel uses the same tactics whenever he has a financial "need". The problem with Kekel is that people don't like him. Some do lip service out of fear, but he can not sway a crowd like Ashmore or Davis. Ashmore and Davis were both able to convince people that they were God's chosen vessels. Kekel has flip flopped so many times on the rules that he's hard to take seriously and this is reflected by seminary attendance.

Anonymous said...

They have plenty! why squeeze a few more pennies from the poor? I recall a post where tk harped on a lady to pay tithe on a dress. I would have put the extra buttons in the offering plate. Why do people whom have never gone out to a work get so much power and credence?

Anonymous said...

Kekel is counting his chickens to see is faithful or not.

Don and Ange said...

"The Fellowship of the Unashamed"

In the early 90's I was reprimanded by Ted Keys who was the local Pastor in Colorado springs and also the replacement for the Tiemans after I reported Nichelle for inappropriate sexual advances. I was rebuked for writing a letter to Ange, who was going to bible school. I felt guilty so I wrote a letter to R.W. Davis, apologizing for writing a letter to one of his bible school students without getting permission. In that letter to R.W. Davis, I also included a copy of an inspirational piece I found online called "The Fellowship of the Unashamed". The next month Davis published a copy of this piece in the Trumpet. Today, I noticed that the title is being used as the ntcc Fall Conference slogan.

So I googled "The Fellowship of the Unashamed" and found several versions of this letter that was supposedly written by a missionary in a foreign country, the night before he was martyred. While it seems like the origins of this letter are untraceable, there are quite a few versions and stories about it. Some say it was written by a missionary in Rwanda, others say a missionary in Zimbabwe and some claim it was Catholic, others Mormon and many others have been attributed with it's authorship. There is a Catholic version floating around in cyberspace and many versions that are worded differently, but none that actually trace it back to a real missionary. The truth is that the letter could have been written by anyone. Nobody knows for sure. It sounds really good and a lot of groups are associating their ministries with it.

The Mormons claim it was written by one of their Elders named Henery B. Eyring.

Several websites attribute the letter to a "Rev." Bob Moorehead. Bob was a pastor of the biggest megachurch in Seattle, WA, back in the day, but resigned because of a myriad of sexual allegations involving quite a few accusations males that he had allegedly molested. The investigating clergy used the ntcc favorite 1 Tim 5:19 rule: "Against an elder receive not an accusation, but before two or three witnesses." to exonerate the accused pedophile from any wrong doing.

Only in Washington state....smh! Now the ntcc has chosen to join the other cults in identifying with this. Obviously they didn't do their homework!

Click here for full story

Anonymous said...

Sis. Kekel has always treated Di Francesco's wife poorly from the way I see it and it only got worse have her son was born. I think Rev. Kekel has to be careful who he kicks to the curb or he will have hardly anyone to do his bidding in Graham.Every time he looses people in Graham he has to use some excuse to bring someone from the field to keep up his numbers and money there. The Di Francescos know way too much to throw them out for the wife not coming much to church.

Julie said...

I was noticing on NTCC's website a picture of supposedly people praying. I saw men and women in the same pew. So have they done away with men on one side and women on the other? Or is the change only for visitors and members off the street? Can husbands and wives actually sitting together now?

Anonymous said...

This stuff about the fellowship of the unashamed is a way of telling others that whatever happened, happened it's over and done with, you are gonna continue attending the ntcc church no matter what.
With this piece they're acknowledging that whatever wrongs they're accused of they have received forgiveness and they will continue on because of the Grace of Jesus?
Kind of weird if you tell me.

Anonymous said...

I know that lady who is standing next to Nichelle on exer FB. Used to be a real vivacious lady.

Don and Ange said...

The Fellowship of the Unashamed is a piece that nobody has been able to trace to it's original roots. It's also an unvetted feel good piece that many cults and groups want to identify with. It is attributed to an unidentified missionary in Africa, but one website traced it back to a group called the Fellowship of Christian Atheletes who wrote the piece back in 1966. This would make the story that it was authored by an African missionary untrue, because those who claim this say it happened in the 80's. The ntcc is using this to inspire it's burnt out masses to keep pushing beyond their limits.

The version that they published in the Trumpet or whatever propaganda publication that proceeded the trumpet,attributed the authorship to a missionary which appears to be a lie. The point is, they don't know it's origin, but they want to identify with it.

My question is, are they really unashamed? When you are unashamed you don't have anything to hide. I think it's hypocritical for them to hide behind the banner of the Fellowship of the Unashamed. They have plenty to be ashamed of? Kekel has a lot to be ashamed of. Where did he get all that money? Why is he too ashamed to give an account to all of the tithe payers? The motto for this conference should be The Fellowship of the ASHAMED!

Anonymous said...

It's no surprise that Helen's daughter and sister no longer attend the ntcc "fellowship of the unashamed"
Why would they? Sister D (Lorie difrancesco)
Probably knows a lot of stuff because she grew up and lived the early beginnings of the ntcc.
Sometimes when you're young you cant comprehend what's happening but now as she growing old she is remembering things that she had blocked out.
When the church opened in graham they had a special class for special needs kids and they had a few kids including difrancesco's son but then rw said that they shouldn't be having the class so the kids were absorbed into the regular children's church. Maybe lorie is finally putting her foot down.
I recall at a gathering of various ministers and wives and remember that she and her husband looked like they were at odds with each other because sister d kept on overriding her husbands conversation saying no that's not what happened or just being abnoxious when her hubby was speaking or saying something, it was a embarrassing because he was supposed to be this leader in the ntcc and here he was being undermined by his wife.
The piece of the unashamed says:
I no longer need preeminence, prosperity, position, promotions, plaudits, or popularity. I don't have to be right, first, tops, recognized, praised, regarded, or rewarded. I now live by faith, lean in his presence, walk by patience, am uplifted by prayer, and I labor with power."
I doubt very seriously this piece was meant for the ntcc leaders because
They thrive on being looked as the only ones who have the favour of God, so this piece doesn't apply to the leaders but it's meant to be for the people in the lower ranks.
They don't need preeminence or prosperity or popularity because they've had and achieved that a long time ago because of their position with rw.



Don and Ange said...

For the ntcc to include or identify itself with the Fellowship of the unashamed is like a wolf trying to disguise itself among sheep. The Kekels, Olsons, Tiemans and many other leaders in the ntcc have a lot of shame that they hide. They are not transparent because they are ashamed of their actions. They don't want people to know what they do with the money because it will make them look bad and people will leave. There were people who left over the 39 acres of land that were illegally gifted to the Kekels for his private benefit. They had to transfer the land back to the ntcc because of the backlash. Narcissists like Mike and Tanya Kekel have to cover up their inside ugliness by making the outside of the platter clean. They project their shame on other people by hiding their inner feelings and verbally abusing others. For example, they will tell you how to spend your money, and point their crooked fingers at you from behind the pulpit, while hiding their finances from you. You ntcc'rs pay the Kekel's salary with your tithe. The Kekels are filthy rich and they flaunt their riches in front of you, but they have convinced all of you brain washed suckers that God has blessed them. I'm not trying to put you down for being a brain washed sucker because we all fell for the same scam at one point in our lives, but we don't have to stay gullible and naive for the rest of our lives.

The Kekels will continue to get rich off of you as long as you allow them to. The theme of this conference is a lie to cover up all of the things that your narcissistic leaders are hiding from you. A feel good piece like "The Fellowship of the Unashamed" covers up what is really going on in your ntcc, while it admonishes you to be paid up, which implies that there is a regular periodic fee involved in your admission to heaven. It's funny, Jesus never mentioned anything about a fee. If the Kekels were not ashamed of what they do, they would be transparent and honest with you about how they spend your money. They are ashamed of how they spend your money, and that is why they will never tell you about it. I know they don't act like they are ashamed, but they hide things from you because they know what they are doing is wrong before God and man. Normal Christians with repentant hearts would feel guilty and try to make things right like Zacchaeus who restored fourfold to those he wronged. Narcissists hide their shame and project it back on to their victims to make them feel like they can never do enough or give enough to be accepted and loved by them and God. Nichelle Tieman tried to convince her daughter in law that other women had given their plasma as a sacrifice because they loved God, implying that if she didn't give her plasma to support her family that she wouldn't be blessed like those other so called "godly" women. God doesn't want your plasma, and if any narcissist in the ntcc tries to con you into selling plasma, you can rest assured that they are not sent from God. Nichelle and David Sr. have conned enough people out of their hard earned money that they could have given to their own son and daughter in law, but it was more important to them to live a life of luxury on your tithe and offerings than for them to help their own family. It's more important to the Kekels to live like Rock Stars than it is for them to help a brother in need. They would rather jack you up for not being able to put things together before they would give you a dime to help you out. The Fellowship of the ASHAMED!!!!!!!

Anonymous said...

The two main reasons why the ntcc under kekel will never make the church finances available for public consumption:

1. The misappropriation of funds regarding the escrow accounts being "zeroed out" every couple of years when there is a pastoral change.

2. Have you ever heard them refer to "church property" in Graham? Anything outside the buildings on the main campus that are used for church activities actually belong to the church; but what about all of those dorms and all the houses the church rents out "to be a blessing"??? The vast majority of them belong to the Davis clan. A very conservative estimate would be at least 30 properties the church owns on paper - but all the cash does not go to the church, it goes to those who really own all of those rental properties. Rent is expensive in WA, so lets say they bring in $1000 a month for each of those 30 properties = $30,000 per month. Okay, now how much is that per year? What is that, $360,000 per year? That is a ton of money, especially for someone who finds a way to "get the church to pay for everything" - so their personal overhead is low; and then on paper the find ways to make their incomes appear small. Make no mistake about it, there is a lot of money stashed around by the Davis/Kekel clan.

Anonymous said...

Tieman's ex said,"His mother said I was healthier than her son, so I should donate plasma,"

How much plasma has Nichelle Tieman donated?

Anonymous said...

How much plasma has nt donated? Probably none but just don't get too close to her she might get some from you!

pretty good money "they" make from renting those dorms and rental houses there in bonco and wherever they own properties around graham. That money goes directly to those who are on top and we all know who they are.
Nobody else gets to reap the "blessings" of the Lord.
The pastors in the ntcc continue to pay rent on those churches that they have until they die or get moved.
I recall one minister getting all the church books ready for the overseer. He was checking the books making sure that all the tithe and offerings were written down and receipts for whatever was bought, I mean, really? Does the graham church abide by those same rules?
It's laughable what these pastors go through and then they post pictures of "their" church to show how many people they have, so full of carnal pride. Look at me, I have a lot of people! I'm a great preacher!
What about when you get the boot from that church? Like mr t used to say: I pity the fool!

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said:

"Rent is expensive in WA, so lets say they bring in $1000 a month for each of those 30 properties = $30,000 per month. Okay, now how much is that per year? What is that, $360,000 per year? "

DNA said:

I would say that is a very conservative estimate. They make even more money off of all the local church buildings and Servicemen's homes. They have the local yokel pastor find a building and then they swoop in and buy it with cash and tell the pastor how much rent they have to pay on the building. Then they charge that amount decade after decade and these local brainwash academy attendees pay for that building several times over. There is no accountability. Point being these hucksters are already supporting millionaire lifestyles for the Kekels as they did for Davis. This is just what we know about from observing Davis and Kekel's lifestyles. What about what we don't know about? As long as these hucksters operate secretively we'll never know how much money of our tithe and offering money they have spent on their lavish lifestyles. Plus the escrows? You would have to be a total fool to fall for this scam after it's been exposed publicly. If you don't ask for some transparency, you will continue to be played for a fool.

Anonymous said...

how is this information not public?

Vic Johanson said...

If Kekel and Olson are discouraging restaurant patronage, it's no doubt to increase income from the "fellowship hall," where one can get purchase a couple of slices of food bank bread adorned with the cheapest mystery-meat cold cuts on the planet at inflated prices. I remember them selling what couldn't have amounted to three tablespoons of salsa for seventy five cents. Davis never missed a way to extract more cash (and they were never interested in checks) from our pockets. I'm sure it chafed his hide to see that money going to Perkins and Denny's. I remember we used to go out after church frequently until the fellowship hall came online; after that there were rules forbidding more than a few going out together, so instead we sat under their watchful eyes on church property while they fleeced us for crappy food. Same with the "motel" and the hovels they rented out at the campground. They had so many ridiculous rules that people preferred to just rent from "sinners." So they engaged in a bunch of guilt-tripping about that.

Don and Ange said...

A lot of this information is public record. The problem with ntcc'rs is that they have their head in the sand. They are so convinced that they are right and everyone else is wrong that they don't care what their fearless leaders do with all of their money. They aren't going to go online and see how many properties the org has in it's name. Many of the Bonco home owners have signed their properties over to the organization so they don't have to pay taxes on those homes. Everything the ntcc leadership does is under the table and hidden from the sheeple. If an ntcc'r is brainwashed enough to allow someone to tell them what kind of clothing they can wear and which women the single men can talk to, and control all their time, and money, they aren't going to care where their money is actually going. They have completely shut off their brains. Of course they think they are part of the last move of God on earth. They believe God is moving in their lives and that God is saving people in their church. They have no clue that 99% of the ntcc church members will not make it with this bunch, to include themselves. As people leave the church they feel more and more special and favored by God. Until their number comes up and Kekel or one of his lackeys jacks them up and they realize that this really isn't the love of God. Then the lights come on and they take their brain out of the box they packed it up in and they dust it off and begin to use it again. This is how the ntcc works and we all fell for their scam. The ntcc is a real estate holding company and they are rich because their tithe paying members have purchased, renovated and paid interest on their properties.

Anonymous said...

Every pastor knows the deal well but they still will override the still small voice that tells them that is not okay.
I remember people that would be bummed out for not being able to rent a house in bonco or inside the church property.
Rw and the rest would not rent their properties to just anybody and they would make it look like only those that were spiritual enough or " sold out to God" could rent their properties.
It's all a mirage.
Making it look like the organization needs to stay afloat renting the churches and apartments and houses because it's for the sake of the gospel.

Anonymous said...

When are they scheduled to build the orphanages and the home for the aged ministers?

Anonymous said...

C'mon that hair has to be photo shopped. I mean seriously.

bryan hill said...

So basically NTCC is still up to those same shanagins? Wow! I am so glad I left when I did!

VIC MORTON said...

This story is very sad!! my heart hurts for this woman!

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said...
C'mon that hair has to be photo shopped. I mean seriously.

DNA said:

Nope. We got that off of her public Facebook Page. It's alright to have clown hair but when she suspected that her daughter in law wore mascara she was brought before the hypocrites as if she had been taken in the very act of adultery. Nichelle and her spineless husband are double standard, money grubbing hypocrites. David Jr. is also spineless for not sticking up for his wife. No photo shopping involved, just true hypocrisy.

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said...
When are they scheduled to build the orphanages and the home for the aged ministers?

DNA said:

Don't hold your breath.

Don and Ange said...

bryan hill said...
So basically NTCC is still up to those same shanagins? Wow! I am so glad I left when I did!

DNA said:

Hey Bryan, good to hear from you again. Yep they still are up to the same old same old. We are glad you left too!

Don and Ange said...

VIC MORTON said...
This story is very sad!! my heart hurts for this woman!

DNA said:

It's very sad and it's very troubling. How many members of that church, pastors and workers from other churches and members sat back and did nothing while allowing this to happen? The ntcc is a culture of unchecked abuse that happens on a daily basis. The Tiemans are a nasty bunch.

Don and Ange said...

Anonymous said:

"Rw and the rest would not rent their properties to just anybody and they would make it look like only those that were spiritual enough or " sold out to God" could rent their properties."

DNA said:

Rw surrounded himself with people that were completely brainwashed into his system. He knew who to put in that bonco and most of them, if not all of them have donated the houses that they paid for to the ntcc. I guess they pay rent for life, or if they move out to another work, the next sucker pays rent. Who knows, we'll never get the scoop, because they are the fellowship of the ashamed and they are not up front and honest about their real estate, their mansions, their RV's, their automobiles or all of the other frivolous collectibles they own. No transparency whatsoever, because all of the followers are expected to be brainless idiots who don't have a right to know where their money is going. If you ask, you are labeled as jealous, or a fault finder. They consider us the evil ones while they blindly give their money to these rich self righteous hypocrites.

Don and Ange said...

Vic said:

If Kekel and Olson are discouraging restaurant patronage, it's no doubt to increase income from the "fellowship hall," where one can get purchase a couple of slices of food bank bread adorned with the cheapest mystery-meat cold cuts on the planet at inflated prices.

DNA said:

They got to do something to keep their hot dog chefs game-fully employed. It's all a labor of love, don't you know? And the money couldn't possibly be misused or funneled into any type of corrupt enterprise. The ntcc is being a blessing to it's brainwashees. They don't have to pile in their oil puking junkers and waste the gas to drive to some sinner's burger joint and get real beef when they can fellowship in the presence of ntcc MOGs while all their money is going to a cause that they have no idea about while they stuff their faces with the parts of a cow that they have no idea about either. Cold cuts and hot dogs! What a blessing! Praise God! The money we save on Gas and tips can be put in the offering bucket, and go to a worthy cause! Can you feel them tugging on your heart strings? Suckers.....

Anonymous said...

It's interesting that Laurie DiFrancesco isn't attending services anymore and from what I understand she is down in California with her parents. The sad part is that her husband now has to take care of their autistic son, who it seems like the Ashmore's never really would spend much time or interact with while they would come to Graham. Sometimes you would even see a look of disgust come over Ashmore's face when his grandson would innocently say something out of turn.

Also Kathy Jordan isn't attending services anymore and she's been bouncing between family in Colorado and California, leaving her husband to try and raise or keep track of 2 teenage girls. Also I've heard that another person attending church in Graham is Ingrid Espinoza, who used to play the piano. Its amazing that these women that you would think should be so close to the leadership there feel so strongly that they will no longer attend NTCC services. What did they see and hear that the rest of the naive NTCC members didn't see and hear?

Anonymous said...

I guess they got their conference next week, time to go milk the congregation on another project like paving roads or building houses. Praise them, get them dancing, make them seem to blessed for coming in the middle of nowhere and then tell them how they're not sacrificing enough time or money for God. Maybe it's time to actually start building on those 39 acres Jekyll Kekel?

Anonymous said...

Kathy Jordan from what I know tried to get her girls to come with her but George convinced them to stay. They still visit with mom and stay in contact with her. It is so sad because NTCC have them thinking they are their ticket to heaven.

Anonymous said...

Di Francesco's wife is in a difficult situation. She wants out but with her son and no money it is hard. Her parents will help her but don't want her son around. I fear she may never get her son out unless Kekel makes DiFrancesco give him up. It is sad that the Ashmore can see he needed out but won't help his grandson. Kekel has said in front of many that God punished Lori with this child because she pressured her husband for this child. This is God's punishment. Ashmore just wants her to walk away from her child and start over. How sad that these men would do this.

Anonymous said...

What is really sad is the only thing ntcc seems to be good at is breaking up families!

Anonymous said...

Yes many of the leaders' wives miss church a lot. Broad members wives only come when they feel like it and some not at all. Other wives spend time away from their families in Graham yet when a friend of mine whose father was dying asked to leave her husband and the church to spend the last few weeks of his life with him it was a total no. It was said the work of God would suffer and scripture was quoted to her over the phone. She runs a daycare in her home for working moms of the church and she was going to shut it down so she could go home. She was told without that money the church would probably shut down which would be against the Holy Ghost. Also there is no church near her father. I want to beg her to go before it is too late and she lives with regret. Why can some skip church and others can not?

Anonymous said...

Women this should let you know you dont have to live in misery anymore.

Anonymous said...

Why didn't Davis just become a business man? Why would he do all of this?

I understand some of her underlings would have no hope for success outside of this church but it would seem like he was smart enough and driven enough to work in a bank, real estate or the like...

I just don't get it. Why did all of this have to happen.

Anonymous said...

Because it is about power, and control. We sat through their seminary class where they said absolute power brings absolute destruction, they used the Catholic Church as their model. They themselves are guilty of many horror stories. They mascared as angels of light, but are deep dark pits of death and destruction. Asking a narcissistic person why they do what they do is a redundant question.

Anonymous said...

I want to know where in the world kekel gets off thinking he has any shred of authority to say that someone's child is disabled "because of the judgement of god"?

That little punk needs to shut his stinking mouth; go home wash it out with soap and bleach and whatever; then he needs to go apologize to that family for stinking his big fat nose in places it does not belong.

If I run into him in person, I plan on challenging him on this issue because I really think it is overboard.

Don and Ange said...

Davis was a con man and a snake oil salesman. He chose to make his money off of God's people. Davis founded the ntcc when he was running from allegations of adultery while he was part of the Pentecostal Church of God. One brother interviewed several members from that church who knew Davis and verified that Davis was involved in several adulterous affairs. Why didn't Davis just become a business man or a banker? I would say because business men and bankers don't have access to young girls, nor are they able to yield absolute power over their subordinates.

Cults are messed up. The ntcc is a cult. Davis chose to use the gospel to reach sincere people that he could pervert for his own benefit. It was never about souls. It was always about souls with money and feeding his own lust and using the people of God for his own financial benefit. There have been dozens of witnesses that have come forward that have identified Davis as a serial adulterer and a child molester. The current leadership of the ntcc enabled him and did nothing for the victims. I know that a lot of people get up in arms when we talk about this on our blog, but we didn't make this up. Victims of Davis came forward and shared their testimonies, and not just on our blog.

Davis chose a bunch of like minded scoundrels to surround himself with like the Kekels, The Olsons, The Tiemans, The Ashmores and so on. All of the ntcc leadership allowed Davis to run roughshod over the ntcc cult members. If a person came forward with allegations against Davis, they were run off and publicly shamed so nobody would ever believe them. When they testified on our blog many of them were shamed again by X-members who still sympathize and make excuses for the ntcc. Davis was a master con artist and he structured the ntcc as a cult to make people blame themselves for any and all "sin" that was in their lives while the same sin was ignored in their own lives. The only options that an ntcc cult member had were to stay in the ntcc and "repent" or leave the cult, which meant leave God, and live in guilt for the rest of their lives. It was always their fault. The cult deemed themselves blameless in every matter and never had to account for their actions. The same people that ignored Davis' improprieties are still running the ntcc freak show.

Business men have to work for their money. Bankers are paid a salary and they have to work for their money also. Davis found a way to make a lot of money off of other people's labors. Paul warned Timothy to withdraw himself from people like Davis in 1 Tim 6:5 "Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself." Kekel is no different than Davis was. He is making even more money off of the people of God and attributing it to God. People need to withdraw themselves and their money away from Kekel, because his is a man with a corrupt mind, destitute of the truth who also wants you to believe that gain is godliness.

Don and Ange said...

The Tiemans are just as bad. They exploit people. David Sr. sits back and allows his overbearing wife to run his ministry. David Sr. is spineless. He is just like Ahab. Nichelle is just like Jezebel with her died clown hair condemning others for wearing mascara and make up. The Tieman's blatant double standards and hypocrisy are ignored and applauded by the corrupt leadership that placed them in a position of power. They are all corrupt. It starts at the top and spreads it's way like a disease throughout the cult. Nobody is safe in the ntcc. If you have children in the ntcc, they are not safe.

Cult members ignore their surroundings and endanger their families because they are totally convinced that they are following God, and that all of the ntcc leaders are godly men. This is just not true and I wish there was a way that we could break through their cement heads and turn their brains on. They don't care about the history of child abuse in the ntcc and their children are exposed to sick minded people like the Kekels and the Tiemans. Perverts and child molesters are also allowed to troll around the ntcc because there are no consequences for their actions. Children in the ntcc are objects and their abused parents are blind to this. Parents are constantly rebuked for not raising their children right. This psychology is used to make the parents believe that their cult leaders know more about raising children than they do. The parents in turn let down their guard and allow ntcc perverts around their kids. I'm not saying that all of them are perverts, but how would you know who is and who isn't? Perverts and child molesters operate in secrecy and shame. The ntcc leadership will not side with the parents of a molested or raped child. They have a history of blaming the victim and ridding themselves of the spouse who is trying to protect their child while they harbor the child molesting perverts. This is a dangerous environment for children.

How do you protect your children from the ntcc? Get them out of there as fast as you can. If your spouse wants to stay, they will no doubt make you out to be a God hater and they will do everything in their power to get custody of your kids. You need to go straight to Child Protective Services and let them know that your child is being abused in a cult. If you are a woman, you need to expose the ntcc for not allowing you to work and support your family. If you don't make the first move, they will. It happens all the time. If people would use the legal system to expose the ntcc for their corruption, they wouldn't get away with half of the abuse they get away with. Tell Child Protective Services that your cult leaders threaten you with hell for not obeying their every command. They threaten you with hell for not paying them tithe. They threaten you with hell for not spanking your child. They use the threat of eternal damnation to control every aspect of your families life.

Don and Ange said...

The Tieman's daughter in law has gone public so that your children won't have to suffer the same fate. The ntcc burried her in the legal process and she used every resource within her means to fight for her daughter, but in the end she lost the legal battle because she didn't have the resources that the Tiemans had. The ntcc blacklisted her just hours after she went home to make some money to support her family because David Jr. was too irresponsible to be the man of the house and provide for his family. They filed legal action against her and paid a lawyer to convince a judge that she abandoned her daughter. This is not their first dance. They know how to use the legal system to their advantage. If you want to win a legal battle against the ntcc, you have to draw first blood in the court battle and your best option is to expose them as an abusive cult with Child Protective Services. You actually have a better case than they do, but you have to be more aggressive than they are and that is hard to do when they spent the last decade or more of your life beating you down.

Anonymous said...

Rev Kipp had been in Saint Louis for years. It always weirded me out he wanted to be around children, mostly young girls. He was a single brother, just something seemed really off about him. At first Nichelle was like oh he us a great guy, and told my family how great he was. He always wanted to hug and tickle the girls, I was like stay away. One day I was walking down stairs and Rev Kipp came over when I was helping my youngest down the stairs. He tried to hug or tickle my 5 year old, Nichelle actually yelled at Kipp that day saying dont touch the girls, she was beat red in the face and very upset. She then yelled at me and told me to watch my children better, my youngest was only 2 and needed help going down the stairs, I turned my back for a second and Kipp was there by my 5 year old. Nichelle knew there was pending charges against this pervert, but blamed me for not watching my kids. And this pervert was still allowed to come to church. An older lady who attended the church was like I never had a good feeling about him. The leadership knew Kipp had previously molested girls, this time it was Spring of 2010 police arrested Kipp at his ntcc rental property there in Saint Louis. He had been viewing child porn. The leadership knew of the investigation but he was still allowed to come to church. I was blamed for not watching my kids. Kipp was a monster nobody told me what was really going on, it was in the police records, one of the Tiemans let it slip one day what he was arrested for after the fact. They thought we as people were dumb, they blamed me for not watching my daughter, nothing happened to them. It's just this monster named Kipp was always around kids. We were told he is a good brother, apparently not. After the police were involved he was a really bad guy. They harbored him, then kicked him to the curb when police were involved. They use people, they hide wicked, and if anything is done wrong, you feel like it's your fault. They've done it time and time again.

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