Soap and Cursing on YouTube
We have yet to post Julie's complete testimony about Ashmore; because people had a hard time believing all the board members that were involved in abusing her. We did get an email from her brother John St. Clair, (that's who claimed to have written it), that acknowledged Ashmore's involvement. We think Davis purposely arranged for all of these interludes; so that when he got caught nobody could turn on him; because they all did the same thing; they were all dirty. We mean, how could Ashmore and Kekel out Davis for partaking in the same abuse?
Of course maybe folks just believe that it's all coincidence. Joan admitted that Ralph raped Julie and lost his phony ntcc preacher's license for six months. Ralph mysteriously dies without a shred of evidence a year later. Reports of Ralph receiving preferential treatment like a free, all-expense-paid trip for two to conference and a new car, (hush money), and even a future position on the Board, flooded in. Most of the stuff we didn't publish; but we still have it on file. Julie named Kekel, Davis, Ashmore and others as the perpetrators; and not one of them has come forward and denied it.
Julie exposed the Spanking scandal that was prevalent in the ntcc. Davis, Kekel, Rudy, and others practiced spanking other peoples' children; and they would pull down their underwear to spank them. And Angela (Hill) Eury allegedly was spanking Julie when Julie was a newlywed 16 year old living in San Antonio with Donny Ridgeway. What was interesting about this, was that we only briefly mentioned Angela (Hill) Eury's name to Julie, and Julie was off and running telling us about how much she allegedly suffered at the hands of AHE. That speaks to us that this was a reality in Julie's life. Just the name of Angela (Hill) Eury triggered a huge unexpected outpouring of what Julie allegedly suffered. She had no reason to share that. We were not even planning on blogging about that, with all the other topics we needed to cover at that time; but, things have a way of surfacing again over time. When we learned this about Angela (Hill) Eury, we suddenly understood why she was so tight with Tanya Davis Kekel. In fact, the picture of Tanya that was used in the "Who's Your Daddy" scandal originally had Angela (Hill) Eury standing next to TDK. This spanking of other people's kids was wide spread in the ntcc; and many have testified about it. Lisa and Pam Norton and Lori Kelley all came out and confirmed much more of the abuse that took place, some of which we have not yet blogged about.
 |
| Angela (Hill) Eury and her close friend Tanya Davis Kekel at Ye Olde ntcc Campground in Santa Fe, Missouri. Birds of a Spanking Feather (allegedly), flock together. Don't they look sweet? But we wouldn't want them around our children or any innocent youngsters. |
A former ntcc member from the early 70's said that Ashmore started the [gay] foot massage practice in Tillicum; and then Brother Ken shared his testimony of how Ashmore protected two known homosexual predators while trying desperately to force Bro. Ken out of the ntcc in St. Louis. Now Ashmore, out of nowhere, becomes friends with Donny Ridgeway? You can believe that it's all coincidence if you want. But I think it's naive and gullible for people to jump right on board the JRA train without doing their homework.
(Jhn 2:24-25 KJV) (24) But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all [men], (25) And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man. here
If Christ took care and didn't jump on any man's band wagon, we should learn from His example. Be a fruit inspector.
(Mat 7:20 KJV) (20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. here
75 comments:
ANON Mike
Such a tragedy, almost makes me wonder about churches as a whole. Seems to draw out the power hungry and perverted.
Okay Rev Ashmore made some mistakes including having sex while married but you people don't make it easy to repent and be a new man in Christ. At some point people need to let the past be the past. Paul speaks of forgetting those things behind us. I am sure he feels like David my mistakes are ever before me. How long will you rub his nose in the mud?
Speaking for myself, the issue at hand is to decide if he is even qualified for public ministry. 1 Timothy 3
Bill Anon said:
" you people don't make it easy to repent and be a new man in Christ."
DNA said:
How easy did Ashmore make it for Moreno to repent?
Everyone that is new to this blog or hasn't familiarized themselves with the Moreno Tragedy, please click the blue link above entitled Moreno Tragedy and familiarize yourself with what is probably the worst scandal in ntcc history.
To make a long story short, Moreno caught his pastor, (Phil Kinson), In Japan, going into a whore house to retrieve his wallet. When Moreno confronted Phil Kinson about the incident, Kinson told him, "It's not adultery if you use a condom". Moreno found a way to notify the ntcc leadership and Kinson was removed from his position. Ashmore was sent to replace Phil Kinson and Ashmore promptly proceeded to blacklist and ostracize Roland Moreno. This treatment was continued by others until Moreno eventually allegedly murdered his pregnant wife and child, Called his ntcc Pastor who was Jake Espinosa at the time, then confessed to the murders, prayed for forgiveness and shot himself.
What kind of church drives people to this point? What kind of chance was Moreno given by Ashmore? Moreno didn't even do anything wrong. He blew the whistle on an adulterer.
So Anon Bill, we would like for Ashmore to come clean about his part in this scandal, before we love bomb him with forgiveness.
Bill Anon said...
"Okay Rev Ashmore made some mistakes including having sex while married"
DNA said...
Do you know something that we don't know are are you referring to Julie's testimony? If you are referring to Julies testimony, is it too much to ask of Ashmore to come clean about that? David's sin was made public so everyone from that point on would know what he did. David's prayer of repentance and acknowledgment of sin was also made public so we would all know how to repent. Are we to assume that Ashmore repented and start paying him tithe?
Bill Anon, you said: "you people don't make it easy to repent". Did Ashmore make it easy for Julie to repent? Did Davis, Ralph or Joan St. Claire make it easy for Julie to repent? Did anyone in the ntcc make it easy for Julie to repent? What did she have to repent of anyway? What did Moreno have to repent of? They were victims and they were run off not because they were guilty of wrong doing but because they questioned the ntcc leadership and spoke openly to others about the abuse they suffered at the hands of people like Ashmore.
By all means jump on board the JRA train without even asking questions if that is what you want to do. Just don't point your finger at us for exercising caution and telling the truth about Ashmore.
I haven't posted yet about this but I will now. I was a very, very close friend of Roland. I spent ALOT of time with him and his wife. It is horrible what happened with his life & his wife and children and father in law.
But I must add here, he was a very unstable character & was lacking in depth of character.
I say that with much love for him & I prayed for him often. I am not in NTCC.
I also know that Roland LOVED Kinson & Ashmore & was always very close to them. He always bragged about all the tapes he had of Ashmore.
I don't know how this affects anything that is being said here, but I just wanted to add another point of view of someone that was extremely close to him as a friend.
I miss him and his wife alot.
Anonymous said:
"But I must add here, he was a very unstable character & was lacking in depth of character. "
DNA said:
Who wouldn't be unstable after going through what the Morenos went through. He looked up to and loved Kinson and Ashmore. He did what he thought was right and got ostracized for it. There are a lot of unstable souls in the ntcc. You are probably just as unstable, or more unstable than Moreno because you are doing the exact same thing that the ntcc leadership does when a victim leaves or gets run off from the ntcc. You are tearing down Moreno's character instead of acknowledging the ones who are really behind the tearing down of Moreno and what actually drove him to the point where he felt there was no way out.
You can look at every victim of Davis and every victim of Kekel and every victim of Ashmore and say that they were unstable. Lisa, Lori and Pam were unstable after what they went through, but can you blame them? Brother Ken was unstable after what he went through? Do you think if you had to suffer what these people suffered that you would be stable?
This is the problem with the ntcc leadership, Ashmore and all of the ntcc sympathizers. They have two sets of standards, (double standards). One they apply to folks that expose the ntcc and another set of standards that they expect us to have for the ones that exploited us while we were in the ntcc.
Anonymous said:
"I don't know how this affects anything that is being said here, but I just wanted to add another point of view of someone that was extremely close to him as a friend.
I miss him and his wife alot."
DNA said:
I actually believe that you probably did love the Morenos and pray for them a lot, but it sounds like from this post, you are just looking for a reason to support Ashmore.
I personally hope that people will learn from this incident and that something good will come of it. I personally am not going to place Moreno in hell. I know that there are many in the ntcc that have used the Moreno tragedy to scare others into obeying them. By placing the Moreno family in hell the ntcc pastors can get behind their pulpits and tell everyone that this is what will happen to them if they disobey their ntcc man made rules and if they don't pay their tithes.
I know what the ntcc preaches about suicide and unrepentant sinners, but in the end, God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy and I hold hope that the Morenos were forgiven. We don't even know what really happened that day. I'm normally not a conspiracy theorist but there is no record of a thorough crime scene investigation that took place and I wouldn't put anything past the ntcc leadership. It seems like every time someone has the goods on the ntcc leadership, they mysteriously die. Ralph St. Claire had the dirt on everyone that he pimped his daughter out to and then he just conveniently died without an obituary, a celebration of life, or any public record from the county coroner or the hospital that he was in.
I don't trust any of these thugs and I will do everything in my power to warn people to stay away from them. I understand the need to follow someone. I understand people that want to accept Ashmore back into the fold because he was well liked by many. But I would caution folks not to join in with him because he is also hated by many and there is a reason for that.
DnA said
Ralph St. Claire had the dirt on everyone that he pimped his daughter out to and then he just conveniently died without an obituary, a celebration of life, or any public record from the county coroner or the hospital that he was in.
Are you sure he's dead? The authorithies that were set to prosecute him can find out for sure. FBI? Missing persons report?
At some point people need to let the past be the past. Paul speaks of forgetting those things behind us. I am sure he feels like David my mistakes are ever before me. How long will you rub his nose in the mud?
Make an apology to July and pay retribution or reparation and then things are cleared up before God and men - my opinion here in Germany!
Timothy said:
"Speaking for myself, the issue at hand is to decide if he is even qualified for public ministry. 1 Timothy 3"
DNA said:
If you go by the bible, Very few of the board members and many of the pastors are not qualified to be pastors of any church, and that includes Davis, Olson, Kekel and Ashmore.
Read 1 Tim 3:2-7 and then read this commentary below left in the Timothy link above:
From MacAurthors New Testament Commentary.
America’s church culture suffers from an abundance of unqualified church leaders. What’s worse, many of these mavericks preside over a form of church government incapable of restraining or disciplining them.
Tragically, in many cases it’s the media that holds these leaders accountable—tragic because the media ends up doing a job that God has delegated to the church. Furthermore, the unbelieving world enjoys a front row seat to shameful scandals that bring reproach on Christ.
(Don speaking here: I don't advocate keeping child molesting within the church. Certain crimes should be reported to the police. If the church did the right thing and immediately removed the pervert from his position of hierarchy in the church and reported him to the police, it would still be a scandal but at least the Church leadership did the right thing.)
Many of these churches publicaly profess their allegiance to the Bible. However, the problem of unqualified leaders stems from a failure to heed Scripture’s clear teaching on the qualifications for church leadership. And it’s not as if those qualifications are a mystery; Paul was very clear about the qualities every church overseer (pastors and elders) must possess.
The Church’s Role in Maintaining Godly Leadership
The church also has a role in maintaining godly leadership. The church is responsible to measure its leaders by that standard of being above reproach. The all too common practice today is to forgive a leader who sins grievously and immediately restore him to ministry. The church, like God, must not hesitate to forgive those who truly repent. But to immediately restore them to leadership lowers the standard that God expects leaders to follow. And since leaders serve as the visible pattern of holiness and virtue for the congregation, the standard for the entire church is lowered.
In 1 Timothy 3:2–7, Paul lists four areas in which a man aspiring to church leadership may be evaluated as to whether he is above reproach. These have to do with his moral character, home life, spiritual maturity, and public reputation.
AnonX said:
"Are you sure he's dead? The authorithies that were set to prosecute him can find out for sure. FBI? Missing persons report?"
AnonX is speaking of Ralph St. Claire here.
DNA said:
No, I'm not sure he's dead. It seems like his alleged death was handled in a secret shroud of suspicion like many of the ntcc's dealings. Are you aware AnonX of any specific cases that Ralph was being prosecuted for?
Anonymous said...
At some point people need to let the past be the past. Paul speaks of forgetting those things behind us. I am sure he feels like David my mistakes are ever before me. How long will you rub his nose in the mud?
Anonymous in Germany replied:
"Make an apology to Julie and pay retribution or reparation and then things are cleared up before God and men - my opinion here in Germany"!
DNA said:
That's a good point Anon in Germany. Apparently that is too much to ask. Most of the people that are weighing in just think that the Ashmores should be trusted without question or any act of reparation towards the people who they have hurt. I for one agree with you.
Bill Anon said,
"you people don't make it easy to repent"
DNA say,
No, Bill, YOU don't make it easy to repent.
You turn a blind eye, and slap someone on the back and glad-hand them into hell. You'd rather they 'feel comfy' rather than actually REPENT and CHANGE.
(Pro 28:23 KJV) He that rebuketh a man afterwards shall find more favour than he that flattereth with the tongue.
It's odd that you are so ready to rebuke us, but you want to flatter Ashmore.
Ashmore knows we are right. He knows Jeff is right. He reads the blogs. Look at what he wrote on his commentary page concerning ntcc. He is using the same language and making the exact same points that the bloggers have been making for YEARS! But he is only doing so as damage control. He knows ntcc sent Olson around to malign Ashmore's character just like they do any time anyone leaves the ntcc - character assassination from the pulpit. So Ashmore is retaliating. The thing is, he is acknowledging the truth, but we feel he is doing so for the wrong reasons and only at a convenient time for himself. Oh, now that he needs tithe payers to kick start his cult, he will bash the ntcc; but for decades he was content to do their dirty work for them, as long as the cash and prestige flowed his way.
Don't be gullible. Wait until he shows something more like Jesus and less like davis when he split from his church because they didn't want an adulterer for a preacher or like denis when he split from ntcc because he knew what a scam it was and decided he could run a racket and get the cash and power all for himself just the way davis had.
You want to convince me that Ashmore has changed? Let's see him work as a tent maker the way the Apostle Paul did, not taking from people, but giving.
Until then I'd say he just got greedy and wanted to be the one calling the shots and getting your money.
These statements are my opinion. And it won't change until I see something DIFFERENT. Right now what I see is ntcc with a fresh coat of paint on it. WHOOPITY DOO!
To learn about the Moreno Tragedy,
click here
Ashmore is simply using his facebook commentary blog to recruit proselytes from the ntcc into Ashmore's cult. He needs you to do the work for him. He needs you because you have already been brainwashed. You've already been taught not to ask questions, not to think for yourself, to be a yes man and never learn where your money is being sent. He needs you to go pound on doors. He needs your tithe dollars so he doesn't have to work. He needs your honesty to hide who he is. He needs your smiling face to hide who he is.
These statements are my opinion. And it won't change until I see something different:
All churches should have 100% transparency with all their finances.
If a church buys the leader's mansion, the members should know how much money they paid to do so.
If a church buys a the leader's car, the members should know how much money they paid to do so.
Financial statements should be accessible to all showing how much money comes in and where it goes after that
-where is it spent
-how much is in a bank
-who has access to it
yada yada yada
Honest people don't stonewall and act evasively or try to dismiss questions.
If your 'leader' is doing so, ask yourself, what is this person hiding and why?
If your 'leader' refuses to answer questions, acts mean when you ask them, or tries to make you look bad if you ask a question, then walk out and find a healthy church where leaders live what they preach, serve the people, and show transparency in all things.
I tried to talk to the Ashmores about Lisa and other people you say he wronged in some way. They had nothing good to say about Lisa or Julie. He blamed Ken for bring stuff on himself. They didn't deny the stuff just blamed others and attacked others character that don't support him. I use to have high respect for them but some of their responses left me feeling uneasy. Rev Ashmore blames Lisa. and Julie for being disabled. I have a hard time understanding this. Would either of you be able to help me understand why he would say this?
Anonymous said...
Rev Ashmore blames Lisa. and Julie for being disabled. I have a hard time understanding this. Would either of you be able to help me understand why he would say this?
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The prosperity preachers teach that it is always God’s will to be healed, always...This from Joseph Prince, Joseph Prince says, “You are destined to reign in life. You are called by God to be a success, to enjoy wealth, to enjoy health, to enjoy a life of victory. When you reign in life, you reign over sin, over poverty, over every curse and over every sickness and disease. The Christian should never be sick, or if you do get sick, physical healing is guaranteed as long as you have enough faith…as long as you have enough faith.
I was a member of Ntcc in Mississippi. At the time Rev. St Clair was the pastor. It came out that he had molested one of the little preschool girls that was coming to their in home preschool and also had sexual contact with another girl in the church. The state was notified. One of the ntcc leader flew in and it was decided for him to move out of the church and state. The families believed ntcc was going to deal with him and didn't want to put the girls through anymore questioning so they dropped the case. One day last year yne of the mother's happened on I think his name is Chief's blog read the horrible stuff there and then read about all the sexual stuff on your site she decided to open a case against him. She was angry to learn that he was still a pastor and that Rev. Kekel and Rev. Ashmore both supported him which is what she found out after opening the case. These people are sick to not support the girls in the Mississippi. They are forever scarred in their hearts. The one girl has to have a support dog to cope with what he did. We need to pray for every victim of this group whether emotional or physical. God help them.
Anonymous said...
Rev Ashmore blames Lisa. and Julie for being disabled. I have a hard time understanding this. Would either of you be able to help me understand why he would say this?
DNA said:
I wish I had an answer for you. Julie said that many of the men in the organization treated her like she was stupid. The only thing I can tell you is that rapists and child molesters think of their victims as objects and they treat them the same way. It's not about the sex for a rapist, but the power that they have over their helpless victims. They get off on that power. They often beat their victims. The sick ntcc perverts started out by spanking other peoples children. Many times these spankings were sexual in nature.
Beyond that I can not explain why someone who claims to be a Christian would abuse a child or a woman. Most people that don't even profess Christianity can't understand it. One thing for sure is that there are a lot of sick people in this world and the sickest of them seem to find their way into cults, where they can hide their abuse behind a Stained glass masquerade. Swedish knit suits, wing tipped shoes and paisley ties can not extinguish the voices of the innocent children that have been abused by the phony preachers in the ntcc.
Brother Ken wants people to know that after I left ntcc IN 87-88. I
was still working at the jack in the box at Grand & Bates, where behind me was the building some of the brothers and sisters lived, and Harold lived also in that building. After Harold being kicked out of NTCC by Davis at Holly Hills for being a homosexual and saying he was leading people to hell. Ashmore and another brother, and some times Ashmore would go knocking on Harold's door at night why? I know this my co worker lived in the same building and would tell me, I would sneak up the back fire escape and look down to see who it was. How dear Ashmore say I brought things upon my self for telling the truth, and he was the one who lied to Davis about Harold and what he said. and to still go there after your overseer kicks him out of the organization why?
this is not a man that has repented,and never will, and will blame Lisa, Julie, and myself why do we deserve this? I wonder is Asmore jealous He never got to put his hand on me the way he did others, as I have read anonymous, said Ashmore does not deny what happen but blames us. I did not Join NTCC to get raped but because I wanted to be used of God just like every one else. and please stop acting like it was a mistake for him, Its not. He just chose the wrong people, like my self and we spoke out against him. And yes as a man it seems shameful, rape it's not so pose to happen to us, but there are people like Ashmore that will try. And now that I think about it I remember Davis teaching about innocent touching could lead to stuff like that, May be Davis knew all along which ones were that way and was trying to warn us.
The testimony of Amy from Mississippi is alarming! How could a member of ntcc continue to attend an organization which has a history of giving shelter and comfort to child molesters?
Amy said:
"At the time Rev. St Clair was the pastor. It came out that he had molested one of the little preschool girls that was coming to their in home preschool and also had sexual contact with another girl in the church."
DNA said:
St. Claire is/was a big time predator. Not sure if he is dead or alive, but he has gotten away with hundreds of sexual crimes mostly against children. He held the keys to his daughters virtue and unlocked the door every time he wanted to satisfy himself. He also allowed ntcc Board members to have access to her outside of their marriages whenever they got in an adulterous mood. Davis covered for Ralph and if his behavior as a pedophile became public knowledge He would be moved just like Davis was told to get out of town by Pop Gaylord when he was caught in adultery.
It's sad Amy, that the people in Mississippi dropped their original case. I know people don't want their children to go through the questioning but every time something like this happens the predator lives another day to molest more children. Ralph is probably in some foreign country where it's legal to have sex with minors. Who knows? I hope he is dead so he can't harm any children but unfortunately there is not a shred of evidence that he died.
The only person that I know of in ntcc history that was successful in getting a conviction was Fontenot's X-wife. She tried to go to the ntcc leadership but was told to find another church. She didn't even want to make a public case but after talking to Davis, Kekel and Olson she said eventually God spoke to her and said, "You are in the wrong place, you need to be at the police station reporting this to them". Thank God she listened to that voice or Fontenot would be molesting children in the ntcc today and the leadership of the ntcc would do absolutely nothing to stop it. In fact they have a history of hiding pedophiles and allowing them to prey on children.
Brother Ken said:
"After Harold being kicked out of NTCC by Davis at Holly Hills for being a homosexual and saying he was leading people to hell. Ashmore and another brother, and some times Ashmore would go knocking on Harold's door at night why?"
DNA said:
Hello Brother Ken, it's good to hear from you again. The behavior that you are describing sounds like the Sodomites who were blinded by God but kept pursuing after the men that were trying to drag Lot out of that city. Ashmore was rebuked by Davis for lying about Harold and Harold was kicked out of the church by Davis so why would Ashmore be knocking on Harold's door? That is a very good question, Bro. Ken.
I'm sure there is a large crowd of people in the Ashmore camp that would say, you need to forgive Ashmore because he left the ntcc and now he is miraculously saved. Unfortunately Ashmore made a lot of enemies because he was abusive just like Davis and just like Kekel to certain people. Why should Bro. Ken, Lisa or Lori, or anyone not be allowed to share the truth?
So many people don't like the way we handle stuff like this because it applies pressure to the guilty party and the ones who follow them. It also makes others that have unnatural and illegal sexual proclivities feel guilty. It's always the same song and dance with these people. Let's destroy their character so nobody will believe them. Instead of addressing the issue at hand, which for Ashmore now seems to be having late night interludes with a homosexual that was leading people to hell, Ashmore addresses this by saying Bro. Ken brought this upon himself. Don't ever back down from these people Ken. You are one of the ones that Ashmore put through 'hell on earth' and now he's accusing the ntcc of putting people through hell on earth and for what? So he can make money off of the misery he put others through? When you take a stand against Ashmore and draw attention to his crimes, you are not judging him as many would have you believe, but you are warning people. People don't want to hear this but they need to hear this, because they are making the worse mistake of their lives for a second time. It was hard enough to survive through one cult experience, but I can almost guarantee that whoever jumps on board with Ashmore is going to end up permanently damaged for the rest of their lives. Surviving a second cult experience is not something I would not wish on anyone.
Anonymous said...
The testimony of Amy from Mississippi is alarming! How could a member of ntcc continue to attend an organization which has a history of giving shelter and comfort to child molesters?
DNA said:
The members of the ntcc are brain washed and they don't believe the hundreds of testimonies that have been shared on this and other blogs. They would rather live a lie and believe that the ntcc and it's leaders are as pure as the wind driven snow. If they were to believe the testimonies against the ntcc, they would have to make an uncomfortable decision to either find another church or go on believing a lie. They dismiss everything that we have shared because they can't think for themselves. They have been trained that it's the ntcc or hell for them and they don't want anyone interfering with their bondage to the ntcc. They are institutionalized and will never break free because it means they would have to think for themselves.
ANON MIKE
OK, So now I'm angry again... I don't care that Sinclair Died because he's getting his just due right about now. If his wife knew it's still punishable. The case should remain open. With an active investigation against his wife it might wake some people up. If she's found guilty of even child endangerment it could help the cause.
I hear you Mike. I'm try not to go around wishing death on people but if it will prevent Ralph from destroying another child's life, I'd rather see him dead than alive.
I wouldn't follow JR Ashmore even if someone paid me. He left great. God expects us to use wisdom and following him would not be wise.
Following he would be like taking a criminal out if prison and making them so leader. I tell you no difference.
First thing that comes to mind after seeing the photo of Angela Evry and Tanya Kekel, is that those ladies are far to young to look so old. But, that's how the male dominated ntcc wants there women to look, however, if that is holiness, then they have fallen short, because muslim women are covered from head to toe with no flesh showing. Ntcc is a reflection of davis personality who was a insecure man that masked his insecurities by belittling and demeaning others. Olson, Ashmore, kekel, Jones, Johnson and others are also insecure, in order for them to feel secure they have to dominate others, and if they get any push back, well, you just need to get saved. Also, does any one know if after forty years, does ashmore receives a pension or not from ntcc, or did they buy him out?
We were looking at the NTCC mis-information file, that they call their 'church locator' awhile back, and noticed that Timothy Paul Jordan is no longer listed as being in Sioux Falls, SD. Where did he go?
And speaking of the Jordan family...
Will Kathy Jordan follow her sister Helen Ashmore out of the NTCC?
If Kathy leaves, will her hubby George Jordan go with her? What about their daughters?
Will George Jordan's brother, Timothy Paul Jordan, and TP's wife Veneta also leave NTCC, or have they already bolted?
What about DiFrancesco? Lorraine's mother is Helen (Duran) Ashmore. Will she leave ntcc to follow her mom and James Ross Ashmore? And what about their son, the only grandchild James Ross Ashmore was, for some time, willing to acknowledge? Will they join the ranks of people like Jerry aka Larry Duran (Helen Ashmore's son) who have left ntcc that kekel considers his enemies?
It would be interesting to know who has left.
We know the 'ntcc church locator' is not accurate. Last year people contacted us who had left. Yet this January they were still listed on that mis-information site.
If you have left, and no longer want to be associated with the NTCC, you may need to keep after them to remove your name from their oft inaccurate site.
We think the ntcc is purposely leaving false information up on the locator so that other ministers won't see that their buddies have bailed from the kekel's sinking ship. Of course, that is just our opinion. And it won't change until we see something different from YOUR NTCC.
There are a couple of new comments on an older thread, "Blood of Babies on NTCC's Hands".
Since the "Recent Comment" widget only displays the five most recent comments, and they are on the "Birds Of A Feather" thread, we have included a shortcut link to the new comments on the "Blood of Babies..." thread. (Below)
To see the new comments
click here
If there are several people that have left but their names are still up there on the locator that just blows my mind. Talk about running a loose ship.
Does anyone know the status of Ashmore's success at taking people other than his church with him? I saw a comment the Shunk's may now be with him.
The Shunks left ntcc years ago, as discussed on their blog. We doubt they have relocated to attend or minister in Ashmore's San Diego church, though they may ideologically support his split from NTCC. You'd have to ask them.
Anonymous said...
"If there are several people that have left but their names are still up there on the locator that just blows my mind. Talk about running a loose ship."
DNA say,
The NTCC locator and other websites are infamously inaccurate.
Their original 'church' website was a sad affair, with more pages 'under construction' than actual pages that said anything. This was common knowledge and made ntcc a laughing stock in the blogosphere. And this was discussed on other Xer blogs in the past.
While they claimed to be too busy to update their church website, mike kekel had all the time in the world to post snarky articles on his defamation / character assassination / damage control smog-blog. Talk about screwed-up priorities.
At first kekel was trying to pass off his blog as a church website; until the Xers called him out for it. Suddenly he rolled out the "Commentary" title; he was probably scared he would get sued for the things he posted.
** Whatever. **
The fact is, the ntcc church locator is notoriously inaccurate, and has at times even showed the same couple ministering in two different countries at the same time.
** Puh-leez! **
Again, we believe they leave the false information out there in order to mislead people into thinking they have more churches than they actually do. It's called "disinformation" or "making a lie". Of course, that's our opinion on their motive. You're free to form your own opinions.
ANON MIKE:
Ref: Church locator
So is it possible that some of these churches don't even exist???
I didn't think this could ever get funny but that's funny!!! I wonder if all the churches they have pictured on their site actually exist?
NTCC probably doesn't have as many churches as their website claims. And as people leave, ntcc will struggle to replace the ministers who follow Ashmore out of ntcc.
The ntcc priority will be to try to hold onto their real estate assets. So if a preacher leaves a church where ntcc owns the building and land, ntcc will shuffle other ministers around trying to keep that land, even if it means closing a church in another city to do so.
As the ntcc says, it's a business.
Does anyone truly believe that God commissioned davis to build a bible college? The same davis that saw himself leading ntcc members in the rapture from bush stadium, the same davis who for years have twisted the scriptures for his own gain, the same davis who have used and abused others for years. Not saying that its not possible. However, I'am saying in davis case probably not. God is an uncorruptible God ROMANS1:23, He's also a God that cannot lie. TITUS1:2, Ntcc bible school seems to be geared more towards generating wealth for the leaders, than being a Pillar of Truth.
If davis really believed in the holiness doctrine as he pedaled it, he would have had to remove kekel from any church position; since kekel routinely disregarded every holiness doctrine that davis sold to everyone else.
As I read through all the blogs, and the ones that had to suffer at the hands of the Homosexual pastor, and then listen to them preach against it. I can not recall ever going to a service were Ashmore would preach the same thing over and over again. In fact he would say if God does not come down and destroy America, then he needs to raise Sodium and Gomorrah right now and apologize for destroying it, the whole point of that account was that no one was acknowledging God, and that there were no righteous people in that city. if you go by Ashmore when he gave those sermons what he is really saying no one is right with God, not even him. and I will take it one step further Sigmund Freud was right those that speak the loudest against something are hidden the most about it in there own lives. why would any one leave NTCC to fallow another sinner.
Scripture of the Day: 2 Pet 2:1-3
"But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
DNA said: What shall we talk about? I know. Let's talk about false teachers and how to recognize them. In Vs. 2 it talks about how men shall follow their own pernicious ways by reason of whom the truth shall be evil spoken of. This lines up with what Brother Ken was just talking about. When someone preaches one thing and does something else, the truth is evil spoken of. They preach one thing and do the opposite. That's how you will recognize them. So if you have a pastor that preaches against Homosexuality vehemently in every service like Ashmore and Rudy used to do, maybe someone should ask JRA about his late night visits with Harold. Maybe someone in Ashmore's camp should ask some pointed questions about why he harbored two known Homosexuals by moving them around from church to church while desperately trying to get rid of Brother Ken, who was of victim, not a perpetrator. Ask Ashmore about the foot messages. But according to Peter, this is how you recognize false teachers. They preach one thing and do another.
In Vs. 3 Peter says:
"And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you"
Here is another way that you can recognize if your pastor, former ntcc pastor, or X-ntcc pastor gone rogue is taking advantage of you and using you to make money. Ashmore, Kekel, Davis, Olson, Johnson, Jones, DiFrancesco, The Tiemans all make merchandise of God's people. As long as you ntcc'rs and Ashmorites are willing ignore the truth, you will be enabling them to make merchandise off of the few sincere Christians that are out there. Perhaps that's why many of you are in Ashmore's Camp, because you got tired of sharing the money you made off of the brethren with the ntcc leaders.
Has Kekel ever preached at a conference that anyone knows about? By the sounds of it, he is in over his head on all fronts. From being a leader, pastor, administrator and so on. I can see why people leave in droves.
I'm pretty sure he used to preach at conferences. RW was reprehensible, but he had people skills. Mike is reprehensible too, but has zero people skills. He won't be able to retain people like his father-in-law did. All he knows is how to push and drive people; he doesn't know how to motivate people psychologically. RW did.
Someone at another blog said Grant is back in WA... Now he gets to bash BS students and have an ego the size of Mt St Helens.
I'd rip him a new one for going to a Catholic school, not going to BS and then trying to rip me cause of his given status as the CEO's son.
Mike
Has Kekel ever preached at a conference that anyone knows about? By the sounds of it, he is in over his head on all fronts. From being a leader, pastor, administrator and so on. I can see why people leave in droves.
AnonX said...
He has. It was snooze worthy not as bad as Olson.
I remember Kekel preached at conference one time and he went into this illustration about Cheech and Chong. It seemed so out of place and any excitement that might have been there a the beginning of the service was quenched. Davis was scowling at him the whole time and it just felt like the roof was going to cave in on him at any minute. It was a completely dead sermon and void of any inspiration whatsoever. That was the most uncomfortable service that I ever endured and I'm not talking about being uncomfortable because of my own sins. It seemed like Kekel was void of spirituality and his message was completely irrelevant.
If Grant is back in Washington it's probably not to stay. He had a very high GPA and is in the 99.9 percentile on the SAT's. His Catholic education was a preliminary step to attend a major school and get a major degree. It would be a total waste for him to not attend the college of his choice after finishing his pre-law degree (or whatever degree he got in St. Louis) if he didn't follow it up with major education at an Ivy league school.
If and when Grant does finish his education, it's not going to be wasted on him becoming a local pastor at any of the local churches. If he were to step into a local ministry, people he would probably get beat up by someone who didn't want to listen to a punk that went to a Catholic school and never had any experience in the ministry.
I'm sure Kekel has a plan to use him in whatever Capacity best suits his education. If he ends up as a lawyer, he'll probably be an Attorney for the ntcc. He'll have his piece of the pie, and he'll probably be a super-administrator like his father before him, but he will be protected and sheltered also like his mama and father before him.
Anon Mike thanks for your contributions to this blog. We appreciate your input and we are glad that you participate regularly. We published a comment with a couple video links that Vic posted of Ashmore, but in retrospect we don't want to promote Ashmore's cult. People can find his junk on YouTube but we are not interested in promoting him on our blog.
We hate the ntcc, and we are also not fans of Ashmore. Anyone can say they have changed and record a few videos that show others what they want them to see, but Ashmore is still secretive and is not transparent. He still operates much like the ntcc. We think that people that jump from one cult to another are going to end up twice as confused. If a person is burned by one cult and we encourage them to leave that cult and go to another, it might damage one cult and benefit the other but what does it do to the person? We actually care about former cult victims and we don't want to see them entangled in any cults. The ntcc messes people up. It hurts and destroys them. People who leave that mess need time to heal and they need to unlearn much of what they have believed for years. In my opinion, someone who leaves the ntcc and goes to Ashmore or Denis is going to end up so thoroughly brain washed and mind raped that it will literally take a real miracle for God to heal their minds.
Again, Mike and others, we are not trying to jack anyone up and we understand that some folks might want to see Ashmores stuff for different reasons. We get that and have no problem with you or anyone else, but we don't want to do Ashmore's work for him.
ANON Mike:
Totally understand your reasoning. I guess sometimes I see NTCC as the only enemy out there. My desire for the corrupt org to fall on Kekel's spoiled head would be all to perfect. I surely don't want folks to trade one for the other.
Thanks for your blog!!!
Sorry I'm late to the party. In regards to the "church locator" when we had our last meeting with olson after we said we were leaving the borg, he told us he was going to leave the information on the church locator, in case we had a change of heart and came back. Because you know it is so hard to input information and get it correct. It only took them 3 years to get the information changed when we took over "the work".
It's been over a year and it still shows us as being there. There is no church there, no one was sent to replace us. Talk about "making a lie".
It's good to hear from you again Anon a Mouse. We are glad you got out and we hope you are enjoying your freedom. I know it wasn't easy but you did it the right way, keeping your marriage and salvation in tact. What you did took a lot of courage and prayer, but we are glad that you made it out of that mess.
As for the locator we noticed that you were still on it and we actually made reference to that a few comments ago. They definitely don't want people to know that folks like you are leaving. Saying that they are going to keep you on the locator just in case you changed your mind is a lie. Like you said, it only takes a matter of seconds, or a couple minutes at the most to push the delete key and remove your info from the locator.
We got a report from another brother about an ntcc church that he seen in a store front. He used to see people attending that church but a while back he drove by it and it was abandoned. We are winning. The locator had 115 churches back in January and now it's down near 100 give or take depending how many churches they are lying about. Make no mistake, they are making a lie. I'm sure the Ashmore split will probably swallow up another 25 churches or more before it's all said and done. Hopefully people will wake up and realize they don't need to give their fortunes away to a cult leader to find spiritual bliss.
Kris Moore made a few comments over on Chiefs blog that pertain to a subject that we have covered extensively on this blog.
Kris said: "Julie, if you are really who you say you are, how can I know that you are real and really who you say you are? I want to find the people who knew you and talk to them. I want to be a witness for you that you are telling the truth. Don stopped me from doing this before. I tried to ask you about this on his blog and he wouldn't allow my comment on his blog."
DNA said:
Kris, we didn't dream her up or invent Julie just to discredit the ntcc. Julie is a real person and she is the biological daughter of Joan and Ralph St. Clair. The reason I didn't want you to comment on this blog was that you and another guy were both attacking her at a point in her life when she finally found someone who believed her. Nobody ever believed her when she was in the ntcc. Nobody believed Fontenot's wife, and nobody believed the dozens of allegations against RWD that were brought forth of his adulterous affairs and child molestation allegations.
Do you think it is easy for a victim of ntcc abuse to come forward? It's not. For every person that comes forward about sexual abuse there are many who will not. That is a proven statistic. The numbers are even higher for men. Men that have been abused come forward in fewer numbers than women. We want people to come forward on this blog because the truth is about the only weapon we have against the ntcc. When rape victims come forward they prevent further incidents of rape. Many people harass them for coming forward and they do the same thing you do. They don't believe them, they want more evidence, they question every thing about their testimony and leave them feeling like it's a waste of time to report crimes of a sexual nature.
There are many people that come on the blogs to discredit others who tell the truth. They don't have any proof that the person is lying but they do everything they can to damage that person's character so nobody will believe them.
Sorry Kris, but we are not going to let you or anyone use this blog as a platform to tear down a victim of the ntcc leadership. I didn't call you, and probably wont because I don't want to waste hours of my time arguing with you. You are going to believe what you want to believe and there is nothing I, Julie or Kekel can say to change your mind.
Kris said:
"I called Mr. Kekel the other day and asked him why he doesn't sue these bloggers that are saying he raped a woman named Julie since he threatened to take me to court for writing about NTCC on my blog a while ago."
DNA said:
You just answered your own question and at the same time you showed your opposition to Julie. Why wouldn't Kekel take us to court if we were lying? Come on, Kris, this is an easy question. The answer is, that he has something to hide. You asked Kekel all the wrong questions and you let him take over the conversation. You should have asked him some more pointed questions like, "Have you ever spanked Julie's bare bottom"? Have you ever had any type of sexual experience with Julie? Why did Ralph St. Clair lose his license for six months? There are a million questions you could have asked. If Kekel could have prosecuted us, he would have. He doesn't want Julies testimony to become public and if you think that the statute of limitations has run out on Julie for prosecuting Kekel, I can guarantee you it's run out on Kekel for prosecuting us for whatever reason he gave.
But you definitely answered your own question. Why would he threaten to sue you, when he has a much bigger problem to face with Julie? Why doesn't he go after Julie? The only answer that makes any sense at all is that Davis, Kekel, Ashmore and the rest are guilty and they don't want to lose any more people than they already have lost. If Kekel could have, he would have. End of story.
Kris said:
"Julie, if you really are who you say you are, I have prayed for you and I feel terrible for you. I just want to say thank you for sharing your stories. I hope you will understand my point of view. I never saw anything like that in NTCC so it is just hard for me to believe. I'm not saying I don't believe you. I actually want to believe you, because it would mean that I was right to leave NTCC. If they really did those things, then there is no reason in the world for me to even consider that I made a mistake in leaving. I want to believe the truth. If what you are saying is true, Julie, I want to believe you."
DNA said:
Here is the problem, Kris. You have issues with yourself. You don't trust yourself and you don't learn from your own experiences. You are saying you want to believe Julie because it would mean you were right to leave the ntcc. This means that you haven't even figured out if you were right for leaving the ntcc. You have been studying for years and reading the blogs. How can you read half of Chief's blog and not know that the ntcc is corrupt. How can you read the hundreds of testimonies that people have left on Factnet, Pelfry's blog, GS/DS blog and our blog and still believe that you were unjustified in leaving the ntcc?
You need to get you straightened out before trying to investigate Julie. Why would you believe the ntcc over her? Haven't they been lying for years? You have studied out tithe extensively, do you think they have been honest about tithe? There is not a New Testament scripture to be found that supports their mandate on tithe. You know they are a bunch of crooks but you refuse to believe they are wrong in your own heart. Maybe you were beaten down by them so bad that you don't trust yourself, but you need to take care of yourself and figure out what you believe before you can help anyone else. Best of luck to you. We do care and we will pray but it's up to you to fix yourself. You can if you want to. Broken lives are God's specialty.
Kenneth said.....
"Ashmore does not deny what happen but blames us. I did not Join NTCC to get raped but because I wanted to be used of God just like every one else. and please stop acting like it was a mistake for him, Its not. He just chose the wrong people, like my self and we spoke out against him"
Julie says....
Ken, Ashmore did choose the wrong
people to mess with. I don't think he thought he would ever see is sick ways put out for the whole public to read. You are one strong individual and you don't know how much I appreciate you talking about what you experienced even though it isn't a easy thing to speak about publicly. It is just sicking to blame the victims just because he doesn't like his horrible ways know to others.
Anonymous Amy said...
"I was a member of Ntcc in Mississippi. At the time Rev. St Clair was the pastor. It came out that he had molested one of the little preschool girls that was coming to their in home preschool and also had sexual contact with another girl in the church.......She was angry to learn that he was still a pastor and that Rev. Kekel and Rev. Ashmore both supported him which is what she found out after opening the case."
Julie says.....
"Amy this is the way NTCC they never think of the victims only of themselves. I pray for these girls recovery and another girl that has never come forward to say what Ralph St.Clair did to them. NTCC is a sick place."
Hugs,
Julie
ANON MIKE
D/A, until I started researching your blog and chiefs I was in the same position as Kris. I was at war with myself for about 10 years and still have yet to take communion over my time at NTCC. While I'm probably in the "Lost" status of Christianity I know I can find a future without that church.
I often thank you and chief for your blogs and I really mean it. I was neck deep as a soldier in believing this was the last movement on earth. When I left I felt real pain on a daily basis. So this has helped me heal to a large degree.
I think my biggest problem now is dealing with the rage of 5 lost years to a bunch of con men who are guilty of some vile crimes.
Take Care!!!
Anonymous Bill Anon said...
"Okay Rev Ashmore made some mistakes including having sex while married but you people don't make it easy to repent and be a new man in Christ. At some point people need to let the past be the past."
Julie says....
"Anon Bill it is more than just sex outside of marriage. It is plain "RAPE". I know people don't like to hear that word but that is what it is "RAPE". He rape, he covered of rape, and left victims feeling used and abused with no hope. If you are going to speak about it than you should be clear about the truth of the matter. "Letting the past be the past" is good for when someone recovers from being an alcoholic or drug addict but mister we are talking about people getting "RAPED" than someone covering it up because if they don't support covering up someone else's sick sin someone might spill the beans that they are guilty of that same sick sick acts or worse."
Well, we got a lot of advise today from the experts. We were called the National Enquirer, we were told (in a friendly way, and in the 'right spirit'), that our blog sucks, that our actions diminish credibility, we are salacious gossipers, even the readers that we targeted were labeled as unsophisticated and then there are those who claim that Julie doesn't have a shred of evidence that she was raped by anyone.
I like our blog, and there are other unsophisticated people who like it also. I think things are going to stay the same here. At the end of the day I feel great about what we are doing. I know that there will always be people with a difference of opinion, and that's okay. We could have taken the easy road and ignored Julie. We didn't have to risk a lawsuit. We could have ignored all of the other victims that have come to us. I understand why people don't believe Julie, but I have a hard time understanding why it's not just enough to not believe her, but they don't want anyone else to believe her either. That's alright too, because at the end of the day I have to do what I believe is right and I've always believed that if you do what's right, you'll win in the end. Sometimes it hurts when people pretend to be your friend but then they lay in wait to ambush you and attack your character. As they plunge the knife in, they give you a friendly smile and say things like, I hope you take this in the right spirit.
Who wins? The ntcc and Ashmore won today. This whole incident will be pulpit fodder for them. They rejoice because we are doing their work for them. The only reason I am addressing this is for the benefit of all those who have come to us in confidence and poured out their guts. Our cause is the people we try to help. This is about all I have to say. If you want to keep it going over on Chief's blog, that's your prerogative. We can't control that and don't want to control it, but we can control what gets published here.
ANON Mike,
I like your blog D/A. It's a large source of info. I don't mind that it's edited at all. Not all blogs should be a free for all. I know some of my comments haven't made the cut but hey, who cares.
I might even disagree with you on certain things but I do have a respect for your intentions and knowledge on cultish behavior.
The NTCC is not winning and neither is Ashmore. Even if he gets a bunch of people from the NTCC it goes back to the philosophy of once you quit it then becomes easier to quit again. I suspect his church will die out with him.
If you do decide to change your blog around in the future please keep a good archive system. I've read as much as I can find trying to piece together what I probably already knew. NTCC is like being in the Matrix. You need others to help you through things.
Maybe you don't have the most cultured following but hey, Davis didn't either. We were all under that country bumpkins spell.
Don and Ange,
I've posted some stuff over on Chief's blog in defense of Julie. May I also add the resources I posted over there on your blog?
If you or someone has been a victim of Sexual Assault, Rape or Incest there is a National Hotline you can call, a private chat line or website you can go to. It doesn't even have to be a recent attack.
The website is Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network- https://rainn.org The phone number is 800.656.HOPE(4673) For 24/7 help online visit- online.rainn.org
I never reported those that attacked me. Wish I would have so that others may have not been a victim. At the time I didn't know there was help out there for me. Since that time and much counseling, I will never let anyone abuse me physically or mentally again.
J.E.
J.E.,
Sorry that you have been abused. We see that you have become a Conqueror; that you now are helping others overcome what's been done to them. Good for you!
And thanks for the info to help people who are currently suffering.
Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network- https://rainn.org
Back to business as usual. Sorry folks, I allowed myself to get caught up in distractions and negativity that basically serves the enemy. We are here to help folks, not tear them down, so on with the mission.
A few administrative notes before we get started. We started this blog to be a place where people can find rest for their cult indoctrinated souls. Our vision for starting this blog was to provide a safe place for people to come and share their accounts of what they went through in the ntcc. We aren't going to change that. We are not like RW Davis in that we will not dismiss your testimony because we are worried about violating the abusers rights. In fact we are here because nobody in the ntcc would care to listen to or believe you. You have a right for your voice to be heard.
We are also here for the average person who has suffered years of indoctrination in the ntcc. We invite you to share your testimonies. We have moderated this blog because if we didn't, there would be several comments coming in every day with words that would shock even the kid with the bar of soap in his mouth.
We respect opinions and we have been known to publish a few opposing ones from time to time. We even have invited current ntcc ministers and members as long as they are objective. If we don't publish a comment it's usually because someone wants to call Julie a derogatory name or a liar, but they have nothing substantial to offer. If you are an ntcc-er and you want to call us God haters and preach to us, we probably won't publish your comment. If a comment praises the ntcc and it's leadership or Ashmore, or want's to use this blog as a platform to advertise for Ashmore and publish his videos that's not why we are here. If you are going to tear down a victim of abuse that has come forward and poured their heart out, you are definitely barking up the wrong tree and you are wasting a whole lot of effort and keystrokes.
Most of the people that comment here seem okay with these guidelines and they stay within them. If this is not acceptable or you don't like our blog format you can:
A. Start a blog of your own.
B. Criticize us on another blog.
C. Or just let it go.
We trust you will be an adult about it and make the right decision. Just kidding, we know what you are really like because we have seen the evidence in our comment moderation folder. lol.
We do appreciate those who frequent this blog and we have made a lot of friends along the way. We have no desire to foster a hostile environment here where we are arguing back and forth among ourselves.
The ntcc hasn't filed any lawsuits against us because they don't want any multi-million dollar counter lawsuits to be filed against them. Guilty people think like this. Davis was smart when it came to money even though he was a con-artist. He took his lumps and chose his battles. If the ntcc were not guilty of the accusations brought forward against them they would not hesitate to slap a lawsuit on us.
A guilty conscience needs no accusers. Hez. 5:6 The last thing the ntcc wants is a bunch of attention to be drawn to their operation. Public proceedings in a court of law would not do Kekel or Olson any favors. A good lawyer would tear them to shreds and parade a whole bunch of abuse victims along with their testimonies before the public. This would draw attention from media outlets a whole lot bigger than the Mountain News. They don't want what they do to be broadcasted in a million homes every night. This is because they are guilty. Innocent people have nothing to hide. Innocent organizations are not afraid of the media because their actions are just and their intentions are honorable.
Ashmore is out there doing his thing and distancing himself from the ntcc. He forgot that he was basically one of the most well respected ministers in the ntcc. We have a really hard time believing that he has changed because we have seen no evidence of change. Perhaps he no longer rails against people for man made holiness, but he doesn't seem to be apologizing to anyone for what he put them through.
If he doesn't care enough about the ones he has hurt, what makes you think he'll care about you. It's the same monster wearing a different mask. What does the new Ashmore have in common with the old Ashmore? Has his bank account diminished? Has he stopped abusing others? Does he care about the ones he's left behind? I have reached out to different people and apologized for getting them involved in the ntcc. I feel bad for my part in everything they have been through. But we don't want to see others make the same mistake twice. A cult leader is a cult leader even if he changed buildings and started singing a different tune. True repentance would be for him to admit that he was the Whore. JRA calling the ntcc the Great whore acknowledges what we have known all along. The ntcc and JRA used to teach that the Catholic church was the whore. I remember hearing his tapes about his Catholic upbringing and how his mother superior treated him. He carried that same mentality into the ntcc and treated people Spiritually the same way he was treated physically. Now we are supposed to believe that he changed overnight.
Ashmore is an opportunist. He seen the ntcc as a dead end road for him after Davis died and decided he'd strike out on his own as others have done. As usual it's all about the money.
If you are out there in Ashmore's church or even contemplating joining (especially if you are a NTCC pastor) read Brother Ken's accusations concerning Ashmoore's response to Brother Ken's sexual assault.
Even if Ashmoore has asked forgiveness from God, he is still accountable to the law of the land. He also is accountable to those he has wronged physically, emotionally and spiritually. Saved predators have no business in the the pulpit. If a saved ex- predator wants to bring others to Christ with their testamony great. Just don't let him or her in the pulpit.
Joan B.
Joan B,
Totally agree!!! There has to be a reckoning of what has happened for people to move on. Justice needs to happen.
D/A
Glad you're laser focused again. Don't worry about the other blog and don't stop posting.
Mike
Joan B. Said:
"Saved predators have no business in the the pulpit. If a saved ex- predator wants to bring others to Christ with their testamony great. Just don't let him or her in the pulpit."
DNA said:
There are qualifications in the bible for being a bishop or Pastor. One of those qualifications is that his children should be under subjection. He failed miserably in that department.
I agree with you wholeheartedly about him not being behind a pulpit, ever. If he is not a reprobate, which God knows, he could possibly get saved. He would have to go through the same process of repentance required by all, and that involve confessing sins and turning away from them. As far as we know, he is much like Davis who claimed he was without sin, but had many grievous sins he was trying to hide. Going around professing Christianity at this point without any evidence of change seems to be a waste of time and a disservice to those that follow him.
People brother Ken wants you to know Ashmore, would have gotten away with having Harold around after what he did to me, and then said He was leading people to hell. When I told him Ashmore that is, about it. as the Dean and Pastor of the Bible School at Holly Hills, His reply to me was I wish you would just leave just get out of here and don't come back.
Thats not the kind of answer I would exspect from a leader. I went out the side door and there was Davis and he Told me Brother Macpherson you don't go to church don't bother coming back, I told Davis about what happened and he went right in the office and asked Ashmore and he lied about it, Davis told him I never lied to him why would I start now Ashmore said I don't no sir and Davis told him I don't believe you, he asked me to leave the office, and told some one to get Harold, and Harold did tell him he said it. and was asked to leave the organization for being a Homosexual and leading people to hell. what Davis said was for him to leave the church for being a Homosexual and leading people to hell. people pleas for give me I just had another min stroke this week.so I do the best I can with my writing, thought process. But for Ashmore to say I brought these things on my self, really He is the one that threw my home work and even tour my pages so while he is doing this to me, again, I ask how did I bring this stuff on my self. Ashmore was a man that was and is in sin while in NTCC and got caught. and took it out on me, because I had hard facts on him. that is why he said He does not deny what happen to me. but will blow it off by saying I brought it on my self.
I know there are some that would say, lets just brush all this under the carpet and pick a new topic. Unfortunately as much as this might hurt some people who have never been a victim of this type of abuse, this kind of thing needs to be discussed, and that is what this blog is for. There are folks who will say, Bro. Ken and Julie and others have been heard enough and it's dragging your blog down, or what ever. The ntcc and Ashmore have caused Bro. Ken a lot of pain in his life. He might not get recompensed from the justice system, but at least his voice will be heard here if nowhere else.
Ashmore, the new Messiah for those who are sick of the ntcc, has a history of abuse. It's been mentioned several times that Ashmore has made the statement that Ken brought things upon himself. If you don't want to here about Ken or Julie, you might want to leave now. Chief has a great blog where you can be educated about many of the horrors of the ntcc without delving into the personal lives of people who have been abused horribly in the ntcc. I've learned a lot from Chief and have deep respect for him. I think he's a lot closer to God than many who talk about God all the time. We have different approaches but we are basically working toward the same goal. So please don't mistake any of what I'm saying as an attack on Chief's blog.
I was a victim of ntcc abuse. I allowed ntcc preachers to get in my mind and was brought to a very dark place. For every one of us that has openly shared our accounts of what the ntcc has done, there are many that haven't. We aren't out here making up stories. We aren't out here trying to share a bunch of dirt on people that doesn't already exist. I know a whole lot more than I've shared. People have told us things in confidence that we will take to the grave because that was their wish. If we were wanting to make things up and share a bunch of dirt as we've been accused of, there are many things we could have brought out, but we actually respect those that have been victimized.
Many who do not wish to hear people speak out about sexual abuse are probably feeling have some reason in their own life that they don't want to talk about it. All of the victims of abuse that have come forward on this blog have had an incredible amount of detail that has accompanied their testimonies and they have had others that have verified details of their true accounts.
We are here for the purpose of giving people back their voice and if there are people that don't want to hear what victims of ntcc abuse want to share on this blog, or want to accuse us of making stuff up or want to discredit them by discrediting us, go find another place to hang out. You have freedom of choice, you are just a click away from exiting this site and visiting whatever site you want to.
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Back to what Brother Kenneth was sharing. Ashmore refuses to take responsibility for his actions. By saying that Brother Ken brought things upon himself but not denying that what he said was true, Ashmore is confirming what happened to Ken.
All of the behavior that Bro. Ken describes about Ashmore is familiar. We have seen this stuff on many different levels in the ntcc. This is exactly how they operate and always have operated in the ntcc. Ashmore couldn't get Bro. Ken to leave so he had to resort to defaming him and humiliating him in public. If this hasn't happened to you in the ntcc it eventually will. If you are a member of the ntcc and you ever have to face a board member or Kekel with the truth, and it goes against the grain, you will experience the same thing.
If you rub Ashmore the wrong way I imagine he will do the same thing to you that he did to Bro. Ken. The truth hurts people. I'm sure the ntcc and Ashmore hate hearing about Julie and Ken all of the time but they created their own problems. They will have to live with them or face them and admit, or own up to their part. Be a man, Ashmore, Kekel and Olson. Accept responsibility for your actions.
People ignore the fact that the ntcc and Ashmore never answer for anything they have done. Davis used to say, "If I've offended anyone, pray through". "If I got your goat, that's the goat I was after". There has never been any remorse or any apologies or any reparations. They always pitchfork it on to other people that actually have a conscience.
I remember one time while in bible school Davis called out a brother during a service who had apparently got intimately involved with a neighbor lady. Davis was just railing on the guy, he didn't have all the particulars but a woman in the crowd would speak out and correct the particulars.( sis Davis possibly??) Anyway it blows me away now to find out some of the things Davis and his leaders have done, doesn't appear they were "rebuked openly." Even if the stories are only 50% true its still sickening!
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