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| Hmnn...To Delete Or Not... |
Don and Ange said...
Greg, we are glad you don't have time right now to delete Kris's comments.
Kris wrote such good comments with real insight to how ntcc operates based solely on his personal experience and growing knowledge of the bible. It seems counterproductive to remove these true stories.
We wonder if Kris has left the ntcc only physically, but is still held captive by the ntcc spiritually.
ntcc uses fear to control people. ntcc even twists a natural fear or reverence of God into an unnatural fearful spirit that makes people do strange things. People are too afraid of God; we wonder if that is the case here too.
God did instruct not to touch His anointed; yet God also records instances of His anointed being corrected and even rebuked.
The bible admonishes us to study the word so we can rightly divide the word of truth.
God never intended our reverence of Him to cause us to hide hypocrisy. Jesus clearly openly rebuked the hypocrites, warning them of impending judgment.
We don't need to fear eXposing ntcc's rampant hypocrisy, and double standards, and blatant sin. We should see it as our duty to sound the trumpet to warn others of the ntcc's false doctrines just as the apostles clearly warned Christians of false teachers; writing letters that are now the books of the new testament. They constantly detailed the differences between real Christianity and hypocrisy. There is no shame in the truth and no need to delete or hide our comments or articles based on real life experiences and knowledge of the truth.
Vote Anonymously On This Post By Clicking On The Lettered Boxes Below:
A) Sounds True
B) Sounds Cultish
C) I Read It
D) kekel Rocks
E) kekel Is Weak
F) Create Your Own By Leaving A Comment: Example: "F" I'm afraid to be caught commenting on this blog
G) Glad To Be Out of ntcc
H) Create Your Own
I) I'm Thinking Of Leaving ntcc
J) Create Your Own
**You Can Choose Multiple Answers**
18 comments:
Don and Ange,
I am not happy I cannot accommodate Kris' request right now. I don't know why he wants his comments removed, and I am not going to ask. He can have good reasons, or no reasons. We are all free now.
I know he has deleted the content of his blog also.
Gregory
Ds or Gs said,
"He can have good reasons, or no reasons. We are all free now."
Don and Ange said,
Freedom is a wonderful thing and we hope that Kris is able to obtain it as we have. The price for our freedom was not free and has left many scars and bad memories but in spite of all the bad, there is definitely freedom outside of the ntcc.
Kris, if you read this, as we have posted, we think that you wrote some very good and insightful comments that made very good points. Our intentions are not to belittle you in anyway as the ntcc would do. We do however, realize that the enemy is real and it is always difficult to overcome the years of abuse we took as members of the ntcc. I truly believe that the ntcc is an evil and wicked organization that created a hateful environment towards all that were not in submission to them. These are harsh words that are directed toward the very few elite members in leadership positions that have shaped the organization into a cult.
We were all at one time saved in this cult because they preached the Word of God to us. However, its what they did afterward in word and deed according to the doctrines and policies dictated by the leadership that were not God's word and were not out of love or spiritual admonishment that made us cult members to mimic and duplicate the actions we were taught to us.
You said you had your reasons for deleting what you commented and we respect that as your right. People should be free to do what they will on these blogs whether it's considered good or bad, we are free and everyone is afforded the opportunity to present their opinions. Our point is that you were right and should not be ashamed of it or feel bad in anyway for telling the truth. The ntcc doesn't want us to have this freedom and we are tired of their minions, like ceasar salad, dictating to us what is right and wrong.
We left them and they are no longer Captain of this ship. They can rant and rave all they want, but we are free from the cult called ntcc and are not ashamed to proclaim our liberty to all that will hear. If there was no truth to what we say, they would not try to dispute it or to justify their actions.
What we state here on this blog is our educated opinions based on what we consider to be the truth, much of which is backed up by scripture. We welcome all to comment and disagree or agree. We believe that what we write is the truth and we will not be removing anything from our blog.
Don and Ange
Kris,
Thanks for your response. Greg and Deb are very good folks and I think most of what you are going through is misunderstanding. Did you ask Greg to post your blog on his list? He didn't post ours until we asked him to.
I think that one misunderstood point might have been that you wanted all your posts removed which Greg was happy to do even though he was busy and then you began to leave new posts. He might have thought that you would later want those removed.
Finally, Greg's blog is different from ours and Jeff's in that he screens comments to make sure that his blog doesn't get hijacked before he posts them. He also takes time and considers things before giving quick answers. He also may not think that you have done anything to be forgiven for.
I have to say Kris that you remind me of me when I was in the ntcc. I walked on eggshells and was so careful and fearful. What you wrote on the blogs is not going to keep you out of heaven. The ntcc is a cult and one of the things they do is try to make you think that you can only go to heaven if you are a part of them or live by their rules. This was instilled in all of us for all the years we were with them.
We had to learn how to separate ntcc and all their teachings from what is real salvation and God's love for us. Hope this helps.
Don and Ange
Kris,
We posted this same comment as the one above and more on Greg's blog. Greg responded to our post on his blog and ours so we in turn left our comment on his blog. Just letting you know so there would be no further misunderstanding.
Don and Ange
Kris said...
Again, my reason for removing them is so I know at least I will go to Heaven.
Jeff said...
Hey Kristofer: I'm referencing your statement above because I truly hope that is not your reason for wanting to remove anything that you've written. I'm not trying to preach to you in any shape, form, or fashion so please don't misunderstand my remarks. I'm simply going to state what I believe. If posting something negative about a crooked religious organization (which the NTCC is) could keep you out of heaven, then Jesus and Paul didn't make it either. Think about what I'm saying. To the best of my ability I've written about occurrences that actually took place while I was with the NTCC. There is no way I could always do that word for word, exactly as it took place. I can however recall situations as I remember them. Jesus dogged the religious people of his day and Paul didn't cut them much slack either. The the same thing happens in Revelation all over again in chapters 2 and 3. Churches were reproved and their deeds were specified.
I don't have a photographic memory nor do I claim to and neither does anyone else, so if that is a prerequisite to get to heaven then no one will make it. Buddy there is nothing wrong with warning people about a church that abused you. If you simply don't want to do that I understand but it's not going to keep you out of heaven or Jesus wouldn't have done it to the Pharisees. Paul wouldn't have done it to virtually every church that he addressed. Salvation is through grace as you well know, not a bunch of do's and don'ts. I understand the importance of repentance but I don't have to repent of exposing a crooked church.
As far as theological discussions go, for the most part, that is not why any of these blogs were created. I understand that may be why you created yours, but that is not why we created ours. The blog I moderate was created so that people could discuss the NTCC and more specifically get the real story of what the NTCC is really all about. There is no mystery that this was done to highlight all the abuse, double standards and hypocrisy that the NTCC has displayed for decades. Blatant stuff.
The NTCC has used cult tactics to "train" people not to speak bad about their church or even think bad about their church. "Touch not thine anointed." They've taken that totally out of context. Jesus talked bad about the Pharisees didn't he? Weren't they a religious group? Didn't they think they were "anointed"? Buddy if you don't want to expose the NTCC there is no problem with that but it ain't going to keep you out of heaven or Jesus and Paul won't be there either.
Jeff
Jeff said,
"The NTCC has used cult tactics to "train" people not to speak bad about their church or even think bad about their church."
Don and Ange replied,
That is why it is so important to separate yourself from the ntcc and have your own identity. These people controlled my life for 13 years and they are not getting any more. There are times when my thinking is affected by the ntcc brainwashing tactics that we all endured but I endeavor to recognize those thoughts and cast them out of my mind, knowing that a lot of them were spawned from the minds of control freaks.
Now I rejoice in the fact that the ntcc no longer controls me. I refuse to allow them space in my life other than the space that is on this blog which is used to warn people to escape from a life of fear and bondage.
There is a huge difference between what ntcc requires and what God requires. I understand the fear that people have of the ntcc because it was instilled in them for many years. However, it does not have to rule our lives anymore. If we live in fear of the ntcc, then we might as well be a part of them. We might as well crawl back to them and beg them to let us sit in their pews and be controlled again and belittled and plowed constantly.
We seek a better life and one that is not ruled and governed by policies that are in place to control us like machines. We all would like to spend eternity in heaven but contrary to ntcc, you do not have to go through hell on earth to achieve that. Serving God is not a drudgery, nor is it meant to be difficult as they so often have preached to us.
Our freedom comes from God only and if we allow an organization to dictate to us what we can say or post on a blog or how we can get to heaven then we are no longer truly free from it. There are plenty of rules and admonishments in the bible that we strive daily to follow. We are not going to add or take away from them to make things more difficult or easier. His grace is sufficient.
Don and Ange
Kris,
Thanks for another insightful and heartfelt post. We wanted you to know that the new Google Blogger Spam Detector automatically places long comments in the "Spam" file. So it's up to us to check the file often for real comments like yours; and post them when we find them. That is why there was a delay before your comment was published.
You are right about wanting davis to apologize FOR REAL. His past attempts at apologies were really a slap in the face and mockery:
"I want to apologize if my actions have offended anyone; or if I've done anything wrong;
BUT I HAVEN'T DONE ANYTHING WRONG!" (scowl and impudent thrust of the chin on rdub's face) -- r w davis...
WHAT A JOKE!
That has been davis' version of an apology for far too long. Why not just "get saved" and make it right with God for all the abuse of His children? Then davis might be able to make A REAL APOLOGY.
cont'd below
Don and Ange
As for kekel, we're not too interested in any "apology" of his "explaining" or "defending" his cult's "doctrine"... We've heard too many such "justifications" (waffling lies) for ntcc sinful man-made doctrines in the past. We know all such "apologies" will be null and void and changed just as soon as it suits the ntcc (such as when the god-child grant kekel was born and all those rules had to change for grant's benefit). No need to encourage kekel to lie more than he already has.
cont'd below
Don and Ange
BTW, we are still waiting for the promised apology from kekel to Casey Hayes. It should go something like this:
"I'm sorry Casey Hayes for lying about you playing golf when you were not playing golf. In fact Casey, you were working hard for the Lord in Puerto Rico."
(Perhaps kekel was playing golf? His son attended a private prep school with a tuition of about 20 grand a year. Maybe it's kekel who is living the Country Club lifestyle while you sacrifice some more and eat ramen noodles -- again...)
But kekel just spreads this rumor about Casey. kekel was defaming Casey to the congregation. What kind of a sit - on - your - butt - in - Washington - and - never - pioneer - a - church - hypocrite spreads a lie and rumor about a missionary who has labored in the ntcc for 24 years?
kekel does that type of thing all the time. Just like his father - in- law r. w. davis has always done.
cont'd below
Don and Ange
Casey wrote about this ntcc smear campaign technique in his article called:
The Big Lie
After ruining Casey's reputation kekel admitted he owes Casey Hayes an apology for lying about Casey. But so what? kekel already got what he wanted:
He planted a lie in the hearts and minds of the ntcc faithful followers so they won't want to know what Casey has to say.
Why would kekel do that? Because kekel knows how badly the ntcc treats every missionary, leaving them with no support; requiring the married women to work and support the borg. While the fat-cats in Washington get fatter.
cont'd below
Don and Ange
Face it, people knew Casey and knew that he wrote a true account of how rotten the ntcc is when he put his true story:
Why I Left The NTCC by Casey Hayes on Jeff's blog.
So kekel had to do damage control by lying about Casey and trying to ruin Casey's reputation so people won't listen to what Casey has to say.
cont'd below
Don and Ange
It's typical ntcc damage control:
Lie now to get the result you want. Then later pretend to be sorry.
We doubt kekel is sorry for hurting Casey and spreading this false rumor about a man who worked faithfully for 24 years for the ntcc borg, selling his house and cars to support the mission work in Puerto Rico.
And how does kekel reward Casey? By lying about the man!
cont'd below
Don and Ange
Man-Up, kekel!
kekel never openly apologized to Casey...
If kekel lied about Casey in a public forum like the blogs, then kekel should man-up and apologize to Casey in the same forum!
But kekel's promise to apologize is worthless like the ntcc borg!
Don and Ange
Thanks again for your comment Kris.
Kristofer,
None of us provided a link to your blog. The reason Deb’s blog didn't is because you made it very clear you did not like the tone of our blogs (after you had extensively participated), felt convicted, and were pursuing a higher path in your own life (and on your own blog).
You said you wanted people that wanted to talk with you about Ministry/Bible related things to meet you over there for discussion. Deb and I didn’t so we didn’t, and I guess many other folks were of the same mind.
If you would have asked me to post a link, I would have. Why haven't you deleted your content from Jeff, and Ange & Don's blog; who also never posted a link?
If someone is truly sorry; they won't get re-angered when any apology is not acknowledged. I assumed you were apologizing this most recent time for your own benefit (for your own conscience), and not because you thought it was something I needed, so I didn’t respond. Of course, if your apology was sarcasm, I would not need to respond anyway.
Have you ever apologized for someone else’s benefit only? I do this all the time; it helps maintain good relations with people; apology is a good social lubricant, as it keeps the good vibrations flowing freely. Kris, I apologize for not posting the link to your Blog on Deb’s Blog. Next time be more clear, or even just ask.
Gregory the Nasty
Gregory,
Did we miss a new post by Kris on this blog? Or are you referencing one of his previous comments? We're just not clear on your comment to Kris appearing at this time when his comments are old or deleted. Maybe we missed something. Thanks if you can help us understand.
Don and Ange
Don and Ange,
This was in response to his tirade (been about 3 months ago by this time) about me not posting a link to his old Blog on Deborah's Blog. It looks like he deleted it, but I wanted to post a response anyway (I like to follow up on most things, though sometimes it takes a while).
Gregory
Thanks for clearing that up Gregory. We suspected that was the case. Kris has another / new Bible Blog now, if you want to post a link ;-) Pretty good stuff.
Don and Ange
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